David Draey walks through building high-converting offers: write a tight offer statement, narrow your avatar to actual buyers, price based on your market size and customer ROI, match your marketing channel to who you're selling to, and structure upsells and backend products before hiring sales reps.
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Almost ready? Yep. Dimmer. All good. Yeah. Right. Fantastic. So. Right, guys. So to cover what we're going to do next, seen as. Hey, shut up, Charlie. So what we're gonna do next, I think seen as a lot of you guys are not quite there with your offer yet, right? And I mean, David, the offer of what you're gonna do, who's it gonna help? Blah, blah. Steph, a little bit as well, dude. Certainly. Certainly the case for you. Emma, a little bit. Ian, a little bit. Mark, I think. I mean, this is gonna really help you as well. Okay.
Mike, for sure. David, the absolute boss. Alex, the absolute legend.
So I had the privilege of, like, working with, you know, Sam and consulting dot com. And that means because we have 25,000 clients, right? Like a lot of clients, all in different niches, all in different industries, all in different spaces. And I work with thousands of people in all those different areas. And so it became apparent to me a few things for when people are getting started in order to get it to work, they were usually making a lot of mistakes in these areas that I have here. But the reason I wanted to talk about this is because a lot of people have brought up offer. What am I going to offer the marketplace? What should I charge it at? You know, all this kind of stuff. So I can promise you guys now I've helped people go from 0 to 350,000 in their first month, guaranteed. I can tell you the names of all these people, a lot of them you're familiar with as well. So I'm going to cover a lot of good stuff for you guys and what the mistakes are. But we'll just start with this sentence that Sam used to teach everyone. And I want everyone to do this, even if you have a business already and you already have an offer, because what Sam used to do, Okay, I feel like Sam's responsible. What Sam used to do is every 12 months, he used to come back in with the team, and we should sit down in the meetings. And he used to actually go through this again with us every single time. Because what happens is your market will change every year, your market changes. The message is going to need to change. And so he used to come and say, hey, what's happening over the phones? Who are the people that are buying from you? So right now, for the individuals that are trying to come up with, hey, what is it that I want to. What's the problem that I want to solve? Just ask yourself, I help XYZ person to do XYZ or solve XYZ problem and I do it and I help them to do that by doing XYZ things. It's a very simple concept, but I'm going to get really on that line for you because you see, because I'm a sales guy, I see everything as a nail. You can take this and turn it into five different things for the same market. Okay? But I think just take a minute, everyone, to narrow down to the 80% of the people who buy from you. Who is that person? And if you're an agency owner as well, I can help you do this real easily as well. So who do you help? And I'm going to tell you what consulting.com was for. Up level. Okay? I help coaches and consultants to scale to seven figures by productizing their offer. Very, very simple. But what that does for me and our team is we were able to narrow down very much on the messaging in our marketing and exactly what the sales process would look like just from that one line. And you'll be surprised. You think you know what it is, but you don't. You actually don't. That's why every 12 months you would come back and say, okay, we've got to look at this one more time. So just take a, just take 60 seconds. Maybe we'll go around the room as well. Yeah. Because a lot of people that I do this. No, you just do this. That's what you do. Okay. You can narrow it down. So let's take a second there to write down what that is. I think we'll just start with the people who are trying to figure out what their offer is, especially David, maybe Mark, Bo, Vince as well and stuff. So the B part is that you're a differentiator or is that the actual mechanism? This is like a pitch. Yeah. You know, what do you do? I help people to do this by doing this. Yeah. It's got to be very like narrow. Just start with narrow. Actually, I can broaden it out.
And even by thinking of this, you want to think about it every single day. If you think about it all the time, you'll get a lot better at figuring out who that person is. And your market will get a lot better as well.
She's ready. She's ready. Okay, we'll start with Steph. Okay. So I said I help high net worth individuals retain more of their wealth by minimizing their tax burden on a guaranteed. What about the new offer that you want to pick?
You see how far she went. That's why you're good at what you do. Because you know exactly who it is. Right. That's where you need to be with your offer, like, really, really quick.
Yeah, I'm struggling a little bit because I know I help entrepreneurs, and.
It'S the language around it. Help them improve their performance.
Okay, but what does that mean you. I think it's a bit general. That. And then it's by doing what I do quite a lot of things with my clients. You know, I got a couple in my room, so will obviously speak about. Daniel spoke quite a bit. Charlie. Now, this is really interesting, what you're saying. I'm already, like, got the answer in my head already. Oh, yeah. Because you say performance is broad.
There's things inside of each one that you could potentially help with. Yeah. So there'll be one that's, like, the main thing. So it could be, I help entrepreneurs maximize their energy levels, like 10 times. I think it's probably that. Yeah. Because the people who are, like, in pain, that's what it is. Like, they're. They're low energy. Because energy is an effect of everything. Right.
So that could be one of them. I used to know a guy that would say, I help entrepreneurs increase their testosterone. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So he also said that. So I think that's good, though. I think I help them maximize it, I think. But. But then it's by doing. There's also that as well inside of it. Right.
So we kind of have to figure it out and make it as simple and easy to understand, but also brilliant as well, like a Zimmer. Because if I say I help maximize your energy by 10 times, or even if I say 100 times. Almost unbelievable. Right. So it's a very strong power pitch. So it might be more like, I help entrepreneurs.
Increase their productivity by maximizing their energy.
Of focus. What I have been saying.
Here's what I have been saying. Help entrepreneurs increase their energy, focus and results without the burnout. Okay, that's good. And I wanted to add some problems in there as well. So you could say I help entrepreneurs maximize their energy by 10 times by getting rid of their brain fog. You see, because brain fog is a big one. And they don't know why. They have it as well. Right. By getting rid of their brain fog. I think burnout is a big one as well. Burnout. Burnout is a bit general. It's good. It's a little bit general. You want to be a little bit more narrow. Like, brain fog is very specific, you know?
Yeah. But that could be anything. So here's another thing I was gonna Say when we talk about three choices here, right. Or avatar, three choices is your solution could help multiple different individuals. So if you say entrepreneurs is one. Right. Executives is another.
But then also your solution is multifaceted as well. So it doesn't have to be by reducing rainfall. Could be something else. And I'll give you an example here. If you look at up level consulting, we help entrepreneurs to productize. That would be an agency owner who would come in or a one on one coach who would come in. But if you had a course creator that came in, they already had a product. But our solution also helped with maximizing sales, getting more leads through the funnel. So you change it. How can you change it? Whoever you're talking to. Exactly. But you have to know what your product solves. So when you guys create this, you could actually, and Sam's never said this before, but you could create. I'm not trying to, you know, bring him.
You can create five of these if you wanted to. So here is one for you. Then how about this? So I help entrepreneurs perform at their best by getting rid of that burnout, optimizing the energy, increasing their focus. And I could like switch it depending on the problem. The person I'm speaking to is correct? Yes. Does that, would that sound, does that sound right? I help entrepreneurs perform. As long as you believe it to be true. As long as you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine. But there's a couple of things in there as well that you have to understand is this is more for you than it is for marketing.
This is another concept, this is another concept that people don't understand about this statement. This is you getting right with who it is that you help. Because you're not going to put this in all of your advertising. I mean, you will, right? But not in that format. So if I have. So for example, if someone comes on the phone with me for upload, like I said, sales guy, everything's a nail. I'm thinking I help course creators to maximize their sales by, you know, close more deals or whatever. Or I help course creators get more leads by fixing their funnel. I knew we did that in the group coaching calls with Jesse, so that would be another one. I help agency owners create a second product that they could sell as part of a suite. Has nothing to do with up level. But up level does do that. Does that make sense? So when someone comes on a call, they tell me I'm an agency owner. Straight away, I've got my pitch ready. I know exactly what my pitch is going to be. So for you as someone has a problem with sleep. But you see the solution is all the same. It's all the same thing. This is why you'll see mindset coaches, Mindset coaches are all solving the same problem. But you see the market believes it's a different reason they have the problem. Some of them think it's sleep, some of them think it's their reality, their subconscious, whatever. It's all the same solution. So for you guys, I think if you already have like let's say for example, Charlie, you already have an offer. It's very obvious what it is. This, this exercise for you will help for your sales team to expand to know who it is that they can help. Right. But for people who are just trying to create their offer like events for you is you just need to have one clear one to begin with. And slowly but surely you'll start to see that your offer can help a lot of other people. I'm gonna go into this right now, but we'll go into questions. Anyone have any questions about that or if they want to run something by me?
So basically for now I just been helping with the course. Like my statement was kind of like I help ordinary people learn concentration by making learning, learning editing software simple and fun. That's the whole process to teach them the skill. You said you help people. Yeah, ordinary people, not tech person. You know, I would change the ordinary person. I would change it to something a little bit more specific. Like he, he, like Mark has got entrepreneurs. Even Mark needs to marry that a little bit more. But you could if you wanted to. But even because I have people who like from like, who are 50 year old moms and who are like 17 year old college students or whatever. But they're aspiring for something, right? They're aspiring to create content. For what reason? Yeah, it depends to be honest. Because I had some people who like want to do it for a job, but I also have people who just want to learn it for fun so they can edit like a vacation video for their friends. So it is kind of like then that would work.
But it wouldn't work for High Ticket. Yeah. So for High Ticket, can I have, can I have two statements? That was going to be my question. Because the other one would be I help creative freelancers grow to 5 to 10k a month by building acquisition systems and an offer. Right.
That would be the other one. But I still feel like I want to keep the video editing thing because that's what I built my whole audience in channel on like A low ticket offer. Okay, so then I have two different. That one that you just told me, that second one, is that an offer that you're considering? Yeah, the high ticket. Okay, what should we discuss? Okay, so we'll get back to that because I know you're trying to really nail down what the offer is. Yeah, we'll get back to that. There's a lot in there. Okay, so David, do I still have everybody question. So like in my sales calls, what I'm trying to build like a slide, like a pitch deck. Watch the slides. If you do have five or so different offers in mind, would you say that that kind of starts working against you? Say that one more time. Like if you're going to change your offer mentally based on who the person comes on the call, needs help with ads, someone needs help with sales mindset, would you then in that case advise against a pre prepared hitch deck of the program?
So yes, I would. But I would have specific slides. Right. So the way I used to do it is I would have slides and I would put up whatever slide I wanted that was relevant to the person's situation. Does that make sense previous to the call, Previous to jumping on the call? Well, I mean I would qualify that on the call. The metal. So while you're having the call, you're kind of moving slides around. No, I'm not moving slides around. I have them ready. Like, like I don't have a power point one pager. You have a one pager? I have a one pager. Oh no. I'm thinking I have like a power point of like 1, 2, 3. I mean.
One pager you can have maybe multiple in the same PowerPoint pitch decks. Pitch decks are good for investors business.
Yeah, you don't really need it for this.
You see what I'm saying? Yeah.
So.
Especially if you're doing YouTube, a lot of these people know who you are. Well, I'm doing YouTube ads. Okay. So for YouTube ads you need something a little bit more in depth, but you don't need that. I wouldn't say you need a pitch. Yeah. Or keep it, keep it at least generalized, whatever you prepared and then like verbally lean in on the problem. They had.
Better. Yeah. You know, so I'm not against having one pages and pitch decks and stuff. But just don't over complicate I think what Alex said. Yeah. Especially when you're working with consumers and stuff. It's not necessary.
So let's say for example, Vince, Mark.
David, this is the next thing you need to consider. So when you're building this line, the next thing is, and this isn't spoken about anywhere, okay? Your total addressable market is how big is the market that you're selling it to.
The smaller it is, the more you better be charging, the bigger it is. That's why you guys will see business opportunity offers like Amazon, fba, you know, this is why Cole, because I spoke to Cole before he started any of this, right? Cole was trying to figure out what offer to go for and he wanted to scale it massively. And he decided that he would go for a biz op to train people to become salespeople and then use that for recruitment purposes later because that scales massively. Because anybody could want to do that. That's like what Vince was saying, ordinary people, that's the whole of planet Earth. That scales very well. But you're not going to be able to charge a lot of money for it unless you have financing or like Charlie type of payment plans where it's going 6 months, 12 months, which isn't impossible, you know, if you have a great offer, you can control the default rate on that. But this is just something for you guys to think about. So for me, I do fractional VP work for four different companies. I don't need to do any more than that. And I can charge them 12 and a half thousand a month plus upside because they're making a lot of money. There's not a lot of those types of companies that will have three or four salespeople. So I don't need a lot of them. But you guys should consider when I'm gonna make the offer. How big is the market? And if you're gonna do high frequency sales like Charlie, Everyday eight calls. Everyday eight calls. I think you as well, right? David, question on your fractional VP work, are you specifically focusing on VP of sales? Yes. So I'm doing done for you work right now. So you come in and you're like a salesman. I manage the team, I listen to the calls, I do all that stuff. Oh you do? Yeah. That's good to know because I often have people who like ask me if I know any.
So with that, the reason I brought that up is because there's not a lot of companies. There are. They're not that many in the high ticket space that in online training business that do that. So for that reason I have to charge high prices, you know. But if you have a consumer market, and I'll talk about quasi actually, because you know who quasi is. It's the same with quasi. Quasi narrowed down everything to entrepreneurs only getting hurt in it hurt him a lot because his offer technically can solve problems for a lot of different people. His pipeline got smaller. He went from 500, 600 applications a month because his messaging was broad and in turn entrepreneurs only shrunk right down to 200 to 250 applications a month. And he was making less money because of that. So you guys should really think about what's the right, what's the right size of the market. So if you're going to charge high prices, it's okay to have a size that's 10,000 or 50,000 people in that market, it's fine. Right. But if you're charging, let's say I don't know, $5,000 ticket or whatever, personally I'm not going any less than 100,000. And when I say 5,5000 ticket, 100,000, 100,000 is fine. Anywhere from 50 to 100k I think just going to say 5, 5 to 10k ticket, 10,000 people, you can't really rely. Say again, you've only got 10,000 people, you can't rely, you can cap out. It wouldn't be viable to run ads to like an audience smaller than 50K. Yeah. You know? Yeah. How would you quantify how big your audience is, how big the market is? So there's a lot of resources that you could use. There's like things called ibis. It's an online market research platform, tells you how big the size of the market is. For me, I have the privilege of being in my industry like long enough to know how big it is. And it's not that big by the way. Like the coaching consultant market is probably like 50,000 people. But let's say therapists, how many therapists are there? Yeah, it's funny because like this question, we get it a lot of the time. We never managed to really, to really like quantify it. Yeah. And we just try to push more on the ads each time. And so now we are doing around 500k a month, 400k a month and it's still working very well. So I don't know what is the gap. Yeah. But it's true that there are a lot of therapists in France. Like every year there are more and more. So this goes to this here, which is there's three tiers of every market usually anyway. So let's say property, there's the person that wants to buy their first property. Then there's a person that has 10 properties and wants to expand their portfolio or Maybe reduce their taxes through some sort of strategy. And then there's a person with 100 or 1,000 and they're looking to maybe just passive, passively invest or whatever it might be because they have too much money. You should also consider this when you make the offer as well, is which market is it that you want to advertise to? Because if you say the addressable market, let's say coaches and consultants, if I say it's 100, let's say 50,000.
A percentage of these people.
Are going to be beginners and there's going to be advanced and then there's going to be mastermind type of clients that you can get as well. Each of them should be priced different, which is why free products is really, really good.
You know, and just to recap for you guys, why I'm talking about this is because when you come up with this, all of these things should come into consideration. What tier market are you trying to advertise to? What's the size of that tier market? So, you know, if it's even viable, what you should price it as? Like, if your market is small, I would never charge a small amount and I would always do recurring, you know, because I want those as recurring contracts. Could you give us an example of maybe one.
For this small market, high price, recurring. So I think consultant.com is the best example. Accelerator is a business opportunity. Become a consultant, whatever. The market's kind of up, right? But it's low price. 2000, we did 999 sales, 499, we did all of that. Right. Easy barrier of entry. But then if you want to think business strategy, accelerator feeds into up level two. So this is another thing that I'll touch on afterwards is can people upsell and cross sell through different offers? You have up level, smaller market, 50, 170, 800. Right. There's only like so many successful consultants that need that product of moving into a course, which is very narrow, by the way. That was 58, 78. Then there's mastermind, even fewer people. That's why we did recurring. Right? Even fewer of those people. 100 cap, $36,000 each.
Right. So that's a good example of it. I think any of you could look at anything that you buy. You know.
What, the gym, you go to the gym, it's like what, £10amonth, £20amonth. Personal trainers, XYZ classes, that much, right? Who goes to the classes and who goes to the gym? Anyone goes to the gym. Anyone does. Who does the classes? Is the people that can't probably afford personal training. Right. And the personal trainers is the executive. Right. So think about that when you design your offer and also decide where you want to start. Like, I know Vix is on low ticket right now, and this is a really variable question. When I start on high ticket or low ticket, I think it always depends on your assets. In terms of your audience size, do you have an audience? Do you not have an audience? Do you have money in the bank? I can't answer that question for everyone. What should you start with? But if you don't have money in the bank, I think probably high ticket. There's low ticket in the making of money, but low ticket will build an audience for free. I was just. I really want to dig into this for you, man, because I know, like, you're kind of. This is building, like, decision figuring itself, but you're like, okay, now do I go, Do I make a lower T kind of course, or do I just do the same thing in charge, higher size? I want to know what. What would you kind of get from that? Yeah, actually the question I wanted to ask, say to our marketing, what the way I advertise it in the videos is. I target busy professionals, which is. Which is broad. I wonder now because you say you don't want to make it too niche. Would I be cutting out too many people if I just said CEOs or C level of executive? Or you sell a fitness program. Right. You definitely would. Yeah. You could do both because they're actually both. They're similar in terms of. Okay, I didn't speak about this. What they qualify for. Right, Right. So they both kind of qualify for the same pricing. So you could go for both of them very easily. So in the marketing, are you kind of saying I can alternate between, like, the messaging 100%? I've seen people do it very successfully. Are you an executive? A CEO?
Okay, so something like that. And then for you, it's the tiers as well. Yeah, managers as well. I was also gonna say with, like, the issue. We. Not the issue, but where we are at now with the 8K, the idea is, okay, cool, we want to do the course instead to kind of get back to people who are selling at 5. Do we like on the sales school now? For example, the volume that we get in, who do we like? What are we selling now? Do I have a chat with Alex? Do we sell the 8K? And then whoever takes the 8K, fantastic. And if 8K is out of the price range down, sell them into the course on the phone or do you sell them the course and then sell them on the back end to the what do you do Course first and then also. Right, So I would probably, if I was gonna make a decision on that, I would probably choose creative financing over a different offer. Yeah. If I was going to. Yeah. Creative financing as in like I know someone in the fitness space does 600,000, 700,000amonth. Right. He does 3K up front, a 4K a number. So it's 5K up front. Okay. He'll do five months of $300 a month or something like that. Oh, like a recurring after that. Yeah. So they have a buy in. So let's say they can't afford the AK, you'll sell them 5k and then you can pay these payments up front. This is how we negotiate all deals like over the hub. Right. Is financing is how you close deals, more deals. How do you then guarantee that they can continue that payment? I have a great product, man. We have a great product, great onboarding. You can't take a pg. I think you can't take a pg. Yeah. Or ca. Oh, you mean like a direct level type of like a personal guarantee. This is, this business model, is a volume model. This is high frequency. This is something eight calls a day deal. No deal. Okay, next deal. No deals like that. So we, we can't be catching up very long like that, you know, cuz you're selling in people. People also typically looking for, well, at least in fitness, if they're looking for a guarantee, they're usually looking like how do, how do they weigh out? Yeah, exactly. So you. I don't know because I asked her that question as well. I wasn't looking for a way out, but I asked Luke, I was like, how do you know it's going to work? And you were like, well, if you're not happy, I'll give you money back. That's just every single one of our clients. And we found it's actually a good retention strategy for payment plans because we put in terms, in order for you to qualify for the guarantee, you have to give your payments. Right. That's how we run it. There's also a big.
So we just say to them, like in the terms, it's like all payments must be made on time without delay unless a reasonable excuse is given. For example, a solar car. So that way people are. Because people come in for the guarantee, 20 clients, all your money back plus a five grand wire. Right. And then that way we get all the payments because if they don't pay, then they're disqualified for guarantee.
That is. Yeah, that's good. But you also, if someone's like, oh, how can I guarantee this? Like, that's a fear thing. So you can't guarantee much in life, but you have to handle that in a certain level. Yeah. Because if you don't handle that there, it's like the only guarantee is you die. So why are you asking that question, man? You scared, huh? You scared? That's why I would say to the.
Have you.
But yeah, that's how we kept the most amount. So we've got. If we sign 100 clients on finance, 80 of them will complete. Is that completion? What would you attribute to that, by the way? Because I think that's interesting. I think the launch rate is the quality of the product, but we don't have any client successful anything. I think a lot of it is just a guarantee. And like the thing is, if they do, it works and then you give them enough value and they just continue to pay you because they feel bad at it. But you always, you know, you're always going to have 10 points of people that the people even like, we've had people who come in, they'll add like 10 grand, 20 grand to their revenue after three months and then they're just like, oh, give me a refund. But like, no, just to speak the payments refund anyway. It's like j will have done an info. Your stripe. Your stripe account is your holy grail bible. You do not. If someone asks for a refund, you just refund them because it costs you more. Yeah, it cost you way more than a couple of thousand dollars. The stripe stripe held 50% of all of our earnings in.
Like reserve for 90 days. Because we have one dispute.
Stripe locked 60 grand.
You know, there's got to be a different option to strike. Well, we're going to build our own payment processor. Oh, you are? Yeah. So a little. A little bit of information. I used to work with Tai Lopez and yeah, I used to go.
And.
Ty had like.
I think we had like. He would have like 20, 30 different backups. Wow. For finance. Yeah, 20, 30, like different backups for them. All running out of time if you work in bizzle. Yeah, yeah, just like normal. One thing that we've done to. To make sure we. Well, touch wood, make sure that the speed rate stays really low. We've got six members of staff on a £1 per day. Yeah, we have the same thing. Yeah. £1 a day.
Probably only five.
So we get five members of staff to have a $1 per day of £1 per day rolling with subscription. And each person therefore puts through 30 transactions a month. Yeah, we have exactly 115.
It was.
Because it's done on percentage of.
No, you can't put it on YouTube though, because then strike. You're like, you know, see what people are doing. Yeah, don't put it on YouTube. Don't do that.
I'm terrified. It's not random because I know I see it. And then, you know, then Stripe just lost. How do they do the dispute with tribe before Stripe? Because in France, like, I mean none of our customers did it. Like they just write us an email. But no, they're just called Stripes.
It's very normal in the US to do the chargebacks. Yeah, but like for example, like in Russia, it doesn't exist. Yeah. In France it's the same. The culture. Yeah. No, I mean like if you even go to the bank and you tell them, I want to.
Just going back to what you said there, Jake, about.
No intention of the payments, like 5K and got that avenue there.
That's like they could feel like they're a bit trapped if there's no value. But the answer is.
I wouldn't recommend it for you, David, if you're going to make an offer.
Because you know, we have to think about that level, that qualified client that you want.
That's a follow on question as well that somebody else mentioned. So I think it's my actually that mentioned that if you got an offer of 25 grand.
Would you drop down if that's too much for them or they weren't as well as the plans on, on their journey. Would you then offer them another product which is lower end entry stuff that's like how to get started? No, not if you're starting out because you'll get distracted. You'll get people on the phone and you're gonna be like, oh man. Like if I just did this other product that he would have bought from me. He just isn't your buyer. That's all it is. Yeah, so it feels typical. Like it feels like leaving easy money. It happens to everybody. I made. I made one guy. We're just talking about Quasi. I made him stop his mastermind. Really? Yeah, I made him stop it. And he stopped it. Why? Because he was getting easy money from it. But it wasn't a good deal for his business at that time. You know, he needed to build his core product before he moved onto that and he rushed to the mastermind. Because he heard that masterminds in the thing. Right. But he wasn't ready for it at that time. So this is about timing and that's going to be on a very individual thing. But if we can talk about your timing, go for the 25k and if, and decide if you want upfront or in payments. That's. That's totally fine. That's totally fine. Five people a month do a mastermind or payment plan there you could. I mean lots of people do that. Lots of people do that. Well you. So people are still gonna say if it's like a one time event.
They'Re paying the vats before the event because otherwise. Okay, so they pay afterwards. Okay, yeah. I mean most people do do masterminds on payment plans like long like yearly tuition ones. They'll do like the 25 piece fit in six months or something like that. I think there's a different, a definition that we need to create because some are saying masterminds like this is a one time event. This is an event. Yeah. And then there's other masterminds where it's an event plus a community.
Something like group coaching and community coaching over a year or so, which I think you probably want to built for like an inner circle group that you work with over a 12 month period. Is that not what you would want to do? I think borrow one time. Okay, so I'll reverse engineer that. My way I've set that up is I'm trying to engineer for my own time. So I think I can give somebody that much value that I could get all of the value out to them within two days. Sorry. There you go.
Yeah, but I can see the fact that there would be so much follow on questions after that as well. Well then they can come to the next one.
Create a subscription model for one 3,000 pounds to have an hour's access to me once a week. How much?
Yeah, but David, that's just a mastermind in the classic tradition, that's all you're doing, right? You're just turning it into a 12 month. So you might as well create a solid tuition based offer. 6 months. 12 months. This much upfront plus this much every month that you pay afterwards. You have access to this group call that we do once a month to catch up on zoom. You have access for one event every quarter that we sit down together at your house or whatever. Something like that is better for you because you believe it more, you know, they'll get more value out of that. You know, you know who you would be Copying. If you did a one day event.
I think Will's a very different case. Will, this is like a new thing for you? Will, it's an experiment. We're figuring out how we can make it bigger and better. Yeah. But for Samuel Lee, that's his business model. He'll take the money off. You won't earn shit. Like, he just uses an opportunity to upsell. Whereas I know you're looking for premium vip, like the best premium quality thing that someone can come to. That's not going to come from one day, that's going to come from six months and 12 months where you're actively trying to get somebody a result and that result's good for you. And property's a sloppy thing, isn't it? Yes, a long term thing. I do like two events a year for three days, one every six months with a community like school, kind of like Quantum. Then a weekly or bi weekly group call that anyone can attend and do it for like, you know, 45K for the, for the year. Yeah. And you get both events, the coaching every month for 12 weeks and that because that's, that is awesome. I would also cap it at like 10 people. Yeah. Because you're conscious of your time. Yeah. So you're like, let me just work with 10 people. And here's what's gonna happen is you're gonna get the feedback from them live over that 12 month period. That's going to build your belief, it's going to build your authentic feeling of you're helping someone. Because it's very close work you're doing. It's only 10 people. You can track what they're doing and help what they're doing. And also it's very selective. You know, it's not an open ground like a biz op where it's like anybody comes in on the front end. You're choosing who you want to work with. So I think that would be better for you and your character that I've kind of picked up from you. And also you can fine tune it with the feedback and what you learn. You can essentially pick what you want to work. You said earlier, I don't know where we did go work with people like you guys, people.
Part of the sales process in the sense of I went on Iman's gents croquet club call. Was that any good or not? I'll tell you in a second. A lot of people are very well because they're like not taking people on unless we want to. So they were trying to make me Justify myself. It was like an interview for me. Like can I be let in? Where it's actually. It's their sales process to make me pay take brand.
But what you've just said there about selecting a group, I could actually cleverly turn that on its head in the sense of I'm only giving myself X amount of time this year and therefore I'm only going to be able to take on 10 people this year. So I want to select is an interview process.
The minute you reject someone, your whole idea about sales will change, which I'm sure you've done before in the past. You've rejected someone before. It's normally me getting rejected by a woman.
I've got so banked up here, the penis is tiny.
We'll talk about justifying price as well, because somebody brought that up earlier. How do you justify the price for your product? I know a very quick and easy way to do that because I might help with that. Yeah. And I'll give you an example of how I did that when I was a broker like eight years ago because I went through a lot of difficulty trying to sell something that was so cheap on the high street and I had to figure out how to sell that. So but we'll move on from here. So I help this person. We're clear on what the offer is. And then slowly but surely you can narrow down, like who else the offer can help by looking at your avatar choices. Okay. And then you can make a few different statements. You look at the size of that market so you know how you should. Like how many people are there. And that will justify what the price should be. Is not justified. But I'll help you come up with the price. If there's a lot of them, remember this. This is a rule of thumb. If there's a lot of them, it's always going to be consumers and civilians. If there's less of them, it better be business people. Otherwise you're wasting your time. Or people that have money. There's usually always three tiers and then this is the next one. So avatar three choices. That kind of comes in with the three tiers. The next one is a channel in the sales process. This will help. Some of you were just starting as well, which is once you figure out who your avatar is.
What kind of qualified buyer they are, how large they are. This one isn't talked about anywhere either. And I heard someone use the terminology before, which is, you know, you have product market fit. You also have a channel market fit as well. Like where does that person go to get their information. And this is why a lot of people struggle with their Facebook ads don't work. Who is it that helps with family? I don't know, someone on the boat who said that. I get met this guy on the boat and he helps families with have kids that have video game addiction. Oh, Cameron. Cameron. He's such a sick guy, man. He was really cool. And I said to him Facebook is going to be the best place for you to advertise. Why? Because parents are on Facebook. Parents are on Facebook. Right. So this is just a quick thing for you guys to consider because if you're gonna like David, if you. Because we're talking about that right now with your product is if you go for those high net worth individuals, it is not. It's probably not going to be on Facebook. It's probably not going to be on YouTube. They probably don't consume content that much. You know, high net worth people are usually in networks. But you know what?
Yeah. Somebody else just gave me the idea after this because when I was doing that presentation thing somebody said you should just go on Mastermind events. Yeah, I know people who do that.
I know a guy who sells like 150000 ticket for like tax services as well. Yeah. And he. You know who I'm talking about, right? Yeah, he like his best deals come from going to Masterminds. You know that's what I'm just set to do as well. Yeah.
Oh yeah. Beverly Hills.
Like he makes most of his money from both of these because that's where high network. Of course like all of us, like we use Facebook and stuff but all marketers. So we're not using it to consume content, we're using it to advertise. But where do they go? They go to other events like this. So just something for all of you to consider. Where does my market go? If they're women and they're buying like consumer or fitness products, they're going to be on Instagram. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I think that's a really important point as David's talking about because it's very easy just to go down like the Facebook route or like oh, YouTube ads, Facebook ads. But sometimes that is not the best place. That's not the best place to spend your advertising dollars. So for example, for Casey the tax advisor, the best way he can spend his advertising dollars is going to mastermind. That's his advertising. And joint ventures. And joint ventures. And say for example with you Mark as well because I know A lot of people in the performance space as well. It's all you do, man. It's YouTube organic on top of that. Because people who want to learn about improving themselves like to consume content. I know I do that. You know, whenever I'm trying to improve myself for, I don't know, like, the condition I have. I'm looking on YouTube for a top expert. I know, Dr. Eric Burke. Like, what does he say about. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not going on a look. I'm looking at a Facebook ad. So when we consider those things, I promise all of you, you'll get way more qualified leads that way. Where does your mark. Just ask yourself, where does my market go? Where do they go to get their information? It might be on Reddit. The. The Casey guy that you mentioned, the tax chapter is. What's his details? Is he. Is he on Instagram? Yeah, yeah, just the. The tax bloke. The tax bloke. Yeah, the tax bloke. Or together cfo. He's a British guy who lives in Beverly Hills. Anywhere else, Like, High network. What do you say? Together CEO, Together cfo. It doesn't work together. Finances. No, no, no, it's not a company. Yeah. And what's the for it? Sorry? Kc. K. Like just the. The letters KC and then Chohan, C, H, O, H, A, N. Does he wear recall, blue suits? No. No. Yeah.
So, yeah. So he charges 150 gram. 150,000 and 250,000 both. And. And I worked with him for a little while as well, and I can tell you right now, the people that come on the calls, 400 million net worth, 100 million net worth. These are top guys. Yeah. So what's he. What's the value proposition that he's given? He builds people a complex trust. Yeah. So it's another way for you to save money on taxes, but still live in like a European or an American country or whatever. So he gets a lot of people that. From Puerto Rico or whatever that want to come back to the United States, but they want to pay zero or close to zero. And he just builds them a business trust, a family trust, and a charitable truck trust, and he shows you how to move your money throughout those very, very high level. It's the kind of stuff that all. Like the top guys, like Warren Buffett, Bill gates, you know, 501C3s, private foundations and stuff. Yeah. What's the final question on that one is where does he fish to get his clients? So masterminds. So masterminds and joint ventures. Joint ventures and masterminds. And, and what are joint ventures in this context? A joint venture. Would you like partners? Yeah, partnerships of other people that have massive influence over other business owners. Like for example, he was doing a, a JV with Bradley. Who knows? Bradley? Yeah, he was doing a JV with Bradley. Yeah. So Bradley has a lot of influence over other business people. Well, he did one with Sam Otto. He came to quantity and he spoke to everybody, had Quantum. That's kind of like a jv. But Bradley, what, what's Bradley's name? Brad. Like Brad and then Lee L E.
Yeah. Think of that channel. Think of this room, Think of the conversations you've had. Just. And yeah, even there's light bulbs going off in some people. Yeah. Even I'm trying to do a deal with you later. Even I'm trying to do a deal with you later. Do you know what I mean? You know what man? You should come to every mastermind I ever do.
Actually genuinely is because every single site there's a new room. People with money.
Yeah, I've always made money from it. Yeah. Because every time, because I saw my mom's life, that was the first time I did.
My sales training. Like years back they used to tell you in sales training.
The best sales approach is always in person. It's always in person. That's the most. Trust will always get built like that. Right. And the thing is as well, because it's genuine, like I've come up with this idea, when I say idea, I knew I wanted to do something similar to that. As in my whole thing is to keep the portfolio for myself. But then selfishly I want to grow that. And the way to do is sell half the portfolio at a time. And obviously that's great. Another value for investors I want to partner with, saving, etc. But I've only come up with that model about thinking of actually doing it with our net worth investors very recently. So when you talk about light bulb, light bulb moments coming on, like I said earlier today, within the first half an hour of this mastermind like ideas were coming that was just like 10 times the price of this. And to partner up with people knowing that you doing a genuine offer of genuine value, there's no fear in selling as such because it's not a sale. It's like I've got this thing, it can massively help you people pay for values. Yeah. The first step to being able to sell high ticket or sell masterminds, you have to do it yourself. Everyone here that's going to a mastermind. Now setting a mastermind is going to be much easier.
That's why Accelerator or whoever it was, I had no guilt whatsoever for anyone. There was 20. They got their money's worth. Trust me. That 20% that they thought with everyone who buys a horse gets their worth. Because when you don't do well, it's the opportunity cost that you figure out mentally. Now I know I didn't want that thing. I made money just from knowing. I wouldn't have known unless I did it. It's like a gateway drug, you know what I mean? So people would buy nine or seven courses in October, but they still idolize the person and sold it to them. Yeah. Because that person represents who they want to be so they could never hit the product. Interesting. Yeah. So Charlie said like, yeah, like it's like there's like a random joke in the Info community like 997 courses and it's like most 997 courses by default. I like they are right. People buy them and they don't receive the value and correspond to the price. But they still. They don't. What's the word? They don't get angry because they are lies of pest. And it's on clear up. For example, particular Mangaji, right. I've heard, not from experience, I've heard that his entry level course isn't that great. But because people love him and he represents what they want to be, they could never get upset with the course.
Well, it's like, it's like oh yeah, Iman's cause wasn't that great. I didn't find it that valuable. But I love Iman. Yeah, it's like that. It's because he's made so many impressions on them and perhaps they'll find a genuine justification in their mind of oh, it wasn't a great. Well then they say, oh, but it got me started.
It's like they got me into it so you know, I found some value there. They justify it. It's like buying merch. Right. You wear a shirt, you'll probably wear it once or never again. But you bought it because it represented something to you, like wanted to support the person. So you probably like giving them so much value more than that.997 and in this actual YouTube video they're like, well, I support for you anyway. So it's. Yeah. And also to get upset the course would be to get upset with themselves making decisions. Yeah, exactly. They're just like, oh, I would have made my decision. So it must Be a good course. But I found something about you. My ego's too big, so it's so true. Yeah. David, I have a good question. So from Sam Oven's perspective, I know focus is crucial. Suppose I have two avatars. One is the online entrepreneur on YouTube ads, and one is the executive on LinkedIn ads, let's say. Wouldn't that kind of start diverging your focus a little bit? So I like to call this the block of ice method. And I've done this with a lot of people as well, is you want to start with this, and over time, you'll chip it away. You'll chip it away as you start selling, and you'll see who 80% of the people that buy from you. Then you'll have something that you can see, like, you know.
Allegorically, like the ice being, like, something that you start with, and you end up with, like, a picture or statue at the end. So you can start with three avatars, and as you start to chip it away, you'll see, okay, 80% of the people who buy from me are this person. I'm gonna focus down my advertising on this, so you can do it that way. Oh, I see. Yeah. Well, I guess my question was more about the channels, not the avatar and that. Like, you have to go to different channels to hunt for the different avatars, but it's for the same product. Okay, so. So this is kind of like a. It's a bit of a different thing, but you definitely want to start with one. But every channel will cap out. Every channel will cap out. Ads will cap out. YouTube will cap out. Eventually, you have to go to a different channel. I've seen Everybody at the 2 million, 3 million a month, all of them go through this. And the way they break it is they have to go to a different channel. They have to hire sellers, they have to do direct mail. They have to do. Because you're not going to get everything from one place, man. It depends on what you want to do with the business. This goes back to intent. Yeah, but just start with one. Yes, start with one. Yeah. And YouTube is very good for what you do, so 100% stick with that. But YouTube, organic. Yes. With that, I wanted to ask David, like, something that when I started, when I did clauses IO, the one thing that I learned which helped tremendously was the call to action. And so basically what I was doing is then, hey, do you want to work with me? Just book a call and, like, I wouldn't get as many people to click right? Or I Noticed when they're like, hey, your call to action is really shit. Like, make it more. Do you have some sort of formula where you feel like do this to make the best call to action possible? Because it's. You'll have someone see it, but really like take action on doing it. Okay, so here's the funny thing, right, Charlie? Yeah. So I did an event with Charlie like about a month ago now and we had 150 people live on the call. And I was just doing like a master class for, you know, closing and sales and that stuff. At the end of it, I literally have anything to sell. Like, I don't have a course, I don't have coaching. I just work with my, my private clients every month and that's it. But at the end of it, I said, maybe I will. Maybe I'll have something in the future. If you're interested, show me you're interested by.
Applying to join for my school group from that 150, 98 people. But. But the reason it worked is because that's what I believe. I have a very like, unorthodox way of approaching the CTA or what my offer is. I always say, what do you believe? What's the most genuine thing that you think? I think, look at Charlie. Charlie's the same. I know Charlie. You're the same. I was going to say so I've had the same YouTube channel books, 30 calls a day and I have the same description for the last 300 videos. It basically says I hate case study funnels. This is literally what the descriptor. I hate case study funnels. And being pitched just as much as you do. But if you're curious about how we help agents, seeing as coach consultant to be on these videos, the link below will explain. No, no email, opt in and no free training can be found there. Check it out. And then it just goes to usual fun.
The less it looks like you care, the more people.
At the end of my videos, I just say to people, there's a link in the description if you want to work with me. If you don't click it, I don't give a shit. I'll do that. You see, because literally that's. I've edit every single video with that and it's worked. So the energy and the authenticity of who you are will always trouble. Always like techniques. I don't know if you guys. Because we're all experienced, like business people. It's. We're probably all on the same page about this. But when you guys see copyrighting, you can see it. You can see. And you're like this. I hate it. But when someone clicks that, that's basically said giving them permission, like you just said. I give you permission to pitch me. Yeah.
Did I show my funnel earlier? No, no. I'll have a look through it. This is how I started. This is literally the same. The same tone at the beginning. It's Charlie Morgan, and welcome to this funnel. Now, I'll be very honest. This is a sales funnel. You and I are both marketers. Right. And you and I both know that the reason that this funnel exists is to see if I can encourage you to schedule an appointment. And I'm hoping that with this video. So it's like the first thing I said, look, no, I want to sell. You know, I don't know if you've seen this, Charlie, but Frank Kern was running an ad about six months ago and an Instagram ad, and the ad was. Hi, this is an ad.
My name's Frank Kern. And you're watching my ad. And then he goes on. Frank Kern is one of those guys that. That's his edge. Yeah. Like his edge is. And if you go on his YouTube, it's all like, listen, I'm just gonna try and sell you products. Yeah. By the way, it's usually, you know that it's not usually five grand, that it's now 2.5. It is 2.5. Yeah. Yeah. I say the same. It's like anti selling. You can call it anti selling.
Here's the keynote that might not work for you. That's what I was about to say, is that. That, that kind of fits your brand. Yeah. So. So my brand is like, I am a science based. I am. You're coming to me for the honest truth. Truth. And like, there. It's also. No, but I am going to give you what the truth is. And according to science, like, if you. Yeah. If you want the truth of how to build a physique, then if you feel good about it, man, it's all good, you know? So. So I wanted to bring this up. This is why incentive pricing works and doesn't work. Because. Incentive pricing.
Yeah, because probably you don't. You think it's right. So let me tell you a funny story. One of the guys, one of the teams I'm working with. With, I brought in incentive pricing. And it worked very well. But the only reason it worked very well is because of the way I introduced it. So I went to the executive and I said, we should do a genuine price rise. We should do it in set of price but I want you to introduce it to the sales team and let them know that it's a real price increase. Right. He introduces it, he tells them this is a real price increase but you can bring the price down. Okay. If they make a quick decision. So it wasn't brought in as a script. The next day the guy, he goes from, from 5,800, he goes to 10,800. Wow. He starts selling it only at 10,800 only. And then the other sales guys are like they start selling it at 10,800. Right. And then the incentive actually starts working. So that's why I always like to talk about belief versus technique because what you believe trumps everything, man. So that's one main takeaway for me when I first first started selling is it's like incentive vers pricing was like what you did on the call but I hated it cuz I would if someone did that to me. I just put phone. Nah. See the reason it works so well for me is cuz I I was being genuine. Dude, if you get off this phone it's. I'm not. Yeah. I'm not going to give you the same price. Yeah. I would deliver it because I truly meant it, I truly believed it. And the way that I used to say it is look, we know for a fact the best clients are the ones that just come in know on court one. Yeah. So if you do that I'll let you with 2.8. Otherwise it's gonna. Yeah. For me it just didn't sit because I was just like. So you're telling me if I ring you tomorrow and I'm gonna buy here's my money you're gonna send. No. Do you know what I mean? That's what I thought. That's what's going through you. Yeah. So I'm like I can't deliver that. Right. So if I don't believe it. Yeah. So I scrapped it and then back Dude, I can touch on this belief thing for so long to be honest with you. Yeah. Because all is. Yeah. And the thing is with the beliefs is you can change it in an instant. Like.
No, no, honestly I'll talk about that later because I've got my own way of figuring my way around beliefs. Okay, we'll touch on that after we go through this part. So we've got high ticket, low ticket. Where should you start? With each. So if this one I don't even think I could cover this but I think we could do on individual basis. I know for they did definitely start with high ticket. But are any of you struggling to figure this out or should we just move on? Yeah, I mean, I already told you last night, stay with the low ticket. Stay with a low ticket and grow the audience and then move to high ticket at a later time. Grow it until when? Or like what metric should I aim for? If it's the right time, look for a metric of your size of your customers. So I don't know, you think you said you have 300 now with everything? Yeah, with this course that I did in the last two months and like total probably 200, 200, I would go to 500, 1,000.
You'll have a lot of easy sells if the upsell is working for both those people as well. And then even when I, because I'm a very patient person, like a lot of people want to go fast, fast, fast. I don't believe in, I don't believe that is a real thing in the universe. So I would just wait until it gets to 500,000. When it gets to 500,000, then I would only work with 10 people. Just like I was saying to you, David, take it easy, take it slow, work with them very closely, get the feedback that you want and then you can decide on what you want to do. If you want to move from high tickets back to low ticket or whatever it is. Because right now you're being encouraged to do high ticket because it's like there's money, money, money. But based on what you've told me so far, you don't even know what your situation is, your offer and you're having something that works. If you have something that works, fix that. Make it better, Grow it. Yeah, right. And then you can circle back around because once you go to the high ticket, you'll forget about the. And until then, can I just then keep my messaging throughout all the content I put out? Because you know, now with the high ticket it would be a different market basically. Okay, so we want to make money with it. So with that, the only thing I would say is make sure that they're all like three tiers and three choices of one. Don't go from low ticket and then a completely different market on the second one. I wouldn't encourage that. There's no point. Like stick with one market and if you can't, we'll talk about it later because I know it's going to be a bit difficult consider. But I know people that teach you how to make radio ready music like which is artistry and they charge like 5,000. It works. I know another guy who teaches you music composition for movies. 10,000. It works. So don't worry about that because I feel like I have to teach them how to make money to charge five things. When it comes to pricing, you kind of work your way up a little bit to figure out, hold on, someone will pay for that. But part of it is also knowing who the market is. And you don't know. Right. You just started to get something working. That's why I said just take the time, get to know you need data. Data takes time. Yeah, you know, get more people inside the local, survey them, hey, if I did this, who would buy? You're on the phone with them, why would you buy? Who are you? You know, and then you'll narrow down your message even more. Be better the next time. Okay? Yeah. So patience is key here. And David, why do you think that going fast is not a real thing.
Going. When I say going fast, I don't mean you. Going fast is a real thing. Who are you laughing at? That Will just told me to ask you that and then he asked it. So I don't know if you heard that.
Because the universe works in seasons, the universe works in years. Is that a belief though? No. Like what makes it.
I believe there's rhyme and reason to the universe. Yes, it's a belief. I know that the universe works in like that. I'm not saying you can't make fast decisions. I make fast decisions. But I'm saying expect. Look at everything in nature, man. When you're trying to get a good body, does it take one day? Nothing works in one day. It's a universal law. Has anybody read the Tao? The Tao Te Ching?
Yeah. Like it's a Chinese philosophy book. Yeah, right. Very old, but it talks about this concept of ebbs and flows in the universe. Now I'm getting way too woohoo. And I'm gonna stop.
I just want to add something to that because like, for example, like in the rocket industry, it took countries 30, 40 years to build rockets. And then SpaceX came, built Starship in two years. And everyone's like, how the hell did this happen? And it's because they, they're like, we're gonna skip this conventional wisdom. We're gonna think from the ground up and we're just gonna do it as fast as possible. Okay, so, so let me, so let me kind of rephrase everything. Things take time, be patient, but everything has its timeline. Sure. You know what I mean? It took this long to get out of the industrial age. But once you get out it shortens it. Right. So it was for me, it took me years to get a nicer body. But now if I get a little bit chubby, which I am, there's a million cakes since I've been here. Cheesecake. Actually when I go back it will take me two, three weeks to get my body back because I've already figured it. So there's these. But these are all laws. Yeah. You know what I mean? Well like the reason, I guess this probably the reason Will is motivating me to ask into this is because if I'm hitting these very aggressive like 50k by June, 100k by September. Yeah. At which point do I think okay, this may be working against the laws of the universe or like just keep pushing through. You'll need a one on one coach for that to be honest, to like analyze everything like Will.
Will. Will says we'll hit 50k next month. You know how much I've done this in quasi. Like I've had to so many times having to chill out, slow down like you're, you're expecting something tomorrow is not going to happen. Yeah. You know like these things take time and they really do. So for your, for your case, if you want to tell me how many subscribers you have on my engineering channel. 4000. How much? 4000. 4000. So you have 4000 subscribers and I know people that have a million and they're making 150 to 250, 000amonth. Right. So for you to expect a hundred thousand by June, you're just not going to get the application volume you want by June to make 100 to 200,000. Do miracles happen? Yes. Not very often but logically like looking at it from like a thingy, your main focus is growing a channel. That's where all your effort is going to go into cultivating audience, not into selling. So here's the reason I bring this up is you don't want to disappoint yourself. I know business owners who are stressed as. Yeah. Stress the out. And then I know business owners are super chill because they understand what situation they're in. One of my clients is like zero profit. You know, he just breaks even every month. He doesn't care because he knows he's in growth interview. He knows. Yeah, right. He's reinvesting all the time. He's moving on to his Mastermind product now and bloody blah blah blah. He's got a sales team, they're doing very well but they Never make him any extra money, but he never stresses out. He's always chill when I speak to him. Then I got another client, right? He's profitable, he's making profit. And everybody's like, trying to date the man. Like, you're still not like, it's coming. You know what I mean? And that's the reason I bring this up is because you don't want to be that stressed out. Low hrv, you know.
You want to understand it's gonna come. And part of this is a very. Again, I don't want to be woo woo, but it's a bit of a trusting thing. Yeah. You trust that it's gonna come as long as you repeat the action again and again and again, keep repeating. Otherwise it's not gonna happen. Just be patient about it. That's kind of where I'm at now. Like, me and Will have this conversation all the time. Will we? I can. I said it to you, bud. And have a conversation in this room and feel like, hold my own. Without a doubt, Will's income is way higher than mine. But me, in my mind, I'm already there. I trust my process. I'm going to get. It's just time, the timeline. And that's a great point, Alex. And you also said. I think I was with Charlie. I was saying this. If you look at anybody who's an amateur, they're always going from one thing to the next thing. Amateurs do that. But professionals stick to one thing because they understand time. And actually there was a great modular accelerator about this. Do you remember the time and the memory thing? Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. That was.
Because Sam was trying to say the same thing. Like.
You can't see what's going to happen in the future. You just can't. And your memory is very short. So you don't know. I don't know that what I'm doing right now could actually make me a billion dollars. I just have to trust that it's going to happen or whatever it is I want. Not a million, but. Yeah. So you have to be patient of it because you can't see one action that you take so that you have no. You have no choice but trust time. Otherwise, like an amateur, you'll be like, this isn't working. You'll go to the next thing. And it's like Alex said, you need data. You have no data at the moment. Yeah. To see if something's working or not. Right. So that's why anything good that's good is worth doing again and again and again. The Best supplements I take, I take them every day or like every other day or whatever, you know, Otherwise I'm not going to see a result in one day. But if I meditate, it's going to take one week or a month to see the results of the meditation. The laws of the universe. Just that's how it works.
Just to give you some hope as well and perspective because you're saying like you use the example of a million followers and he's making 250 grand. You mentioned something on the first day like your subscription was like 20,000 on YouTube, but then you're bringing 400 grand in a month. So it's a little bit of a hoax story there. Like you don't need to get to a million followers to get that. Yeah, yeah. Well, if you're doing B2C.
Yes. High ticket, you're more likely one follower to me is where. If you're charging 10% of my price, then one follower to me is worth 10 to you. So basic amount. So I can have like 20k subs and make more money than some 200k subs. Like price is the biggest point of leverage. So this comes to your addressable market. The tiers in the market, what are they qualified for? Who is the avatar? Like, these are the variables. These are the variables. But your market's a really good market. It really is. You're making 150 easily from that market. Yeah. And the, the way to raise your price and, and have conviction and that's fair is just to make your product as good as possible. Okay. So that's part of it. If you like it. Yeah, we're going to talk about that now. Six months of your life into a product, you will have so much faith in it because you, the more pain you pay, the more conviction you have. There's a relationship between pain into a product and conviction. If you, if you put it together and like a week and you have outset. No, the more you bleed for it, the more, the more you, you just been through this fight, right? Yeah. I've also learned that like with. Especially putting out content, especially with YouTube, it. The video doesn't disappear, it's always there. So like, as time goes by, it's still like building up for you. Right. So that one video is still going to be working for you that you made six months ago. Yeah. And five months ago. And then you would have had this like, kind of like the social group. So like the same product I sell now for 8k, I used to sell for 60 bucks. So when I was selling for 60 bucks. I used to think that I was a trash coach, but it was just like, okay, in reality, there's only so many people who are going to change their body. Doesn't matter what you tell them. Right. You could be at their house almost. And that's just as easy to sell someone at 8k as it is at 60 bucks. It's actually easier to sell at 8k because. Because when we decided to change, there was just so much pain on our end for the work we're doing. Like, because me and my work, we're married. Like, we're also business partners. Like, it was costing our marriage. I was like, it. I'm charging 8k. And it was easier to sell. And it was about fun. A lot more fun. What you said. How do you find out price change is having a belief in the pro? It is. Yeah. And I said to my whole life of anything I've ever, like, worked on. Yeah, what you. He has. It's like, amazing. I was like, you could say, there's people. Here's the thing. Belief takes time as well. So. So I want to ask you that question as well. So what was your name? Mike. Mike, you got feedback from the $80 client. That's it. So here's the thing is, like, my personal feeling of belief is you need feedback. Like, you can't look in the mirror and talk to yourself all day. Like, I'm not disrespecting anyone that thinks that works or whatever, but for me, it doesn't work. I know. Yeah. The physical universe needs to give you something back. You had that, though. You got that thing. So charging, though, isn't like you said, you charge three different prices. Yeah. Here's what's going to happen. In three months, they're going to come back and tell you that you changed your life. Then you can ask them, how did it change your life? I'll give you guys a little exercise on how to do this as well. They'll tell you how to change your life, and all of a sudden you're like, holy shit, I'm on the charger. Right. So here's what I used to do. I'll give you the exercise now, actually, and I'll talk about two examples of how to justify price for yourself as well. So when I realized this early on in my sales career is when I would call my clients and then ask them a specific set of questions the whole week, my closing rate would increase. So anyone who's on the phone as well, and I told you guys this as well. Just call up your clients, interview them. Hey, how's things since you started the course? Are they great? Okay, great. What changed? Okay, so how was that different from your previous situation? Would you do it again? Would you pay more if you did it again? Would you tell other people about it? I used to ask them these questions, and all of a sudden, for the week, my close rates went up, like, massively. I was filled with juice. I was filled with energy. I was like, conviction. Because here's the thing of conviction. And you have to look at religious people, okay? Islam every Friday, in Judaism every Saturday, in Christianity every Sunday. And I learned. It's funny because, like, it's obvious in the religion, but, like, network market is in business. Do this the best. My network market is amazing. Every week, once, they'll meet up, and then they'll do their whole thing, right? Hey, I want to congratulate this person. He comes up on stage, he's got his badge. I did this, and I did this. And then it reinvigorates. And then they talk about the products again and again and again. It's because. And we were talking about focus earlier, right? Is you forget, man. You forget shit. Because we're talking about the alchemy itself, right? Yeah, you forget. So you have to repeat it again and again and again. So you do that in religion because you lose faith. Yeah, right. Yeah. You reinforce it. So that's why people need to be led as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You need to have a place and altar to do that. Right? So what I do with my clients is once every two weeks, I'll bring a customer on to our sales team meeting, and then we'll talk to the customer and we'll ask him questions and say, how did it go? What. What was your life like before? Because my sales people forget. They forget that they have the best product in the market. So for you, you're in the early stage now, and, Mike, you've gone through that, but still, you're gonna have to still do it. I have top business people who forget. They're doing, like, hundreds of thousands a month, and they still forget. And then they message me and say, you. I just called up one of my clients, man. I did a deal, and I did a deal in front of my salespeople, because the salespeople forget that they could do deals until the executive call calls up the client. This is gonna happen to you as well. You'll get your salespeople, they'll stop selling. All of a sudden, you're like, who did you speak to. I spoke to this guy, call up that guy live in front of the set. I do this every Tuesday with my teams. I'll call up the guy live on the phone and show them how to fucking do it. And when I do it, everyone all of a sudden stops doing well that week. It's because it's an energy thing. Yeah, it is. Yeah. It's really weird the way that works, but it's just the way God made us, man. It's like human psychology focus. So we could talk about justifying price now and a few techniques on how to do that. But David, before we move on from the low ticket, high ticket, can we still dwell on that? So this is will also, what's your view? The Edgebot, is it selling as a low ticket, mid ticket, high ticket? How would you classify it? Well, I wouldn't really class it as high ticket or low ticket. Because it's a subscription. Exactly. You know, so I think it's quite high subscription. It's $350 a month and the journey's been pretty low in my opinion. The sleep rate been high.
So it's not really a high ticket, low ticket product. It's more of a. I mean the way that we're using it right now for us is we're kind of inserting it on the back end.
Especially to customers. But if we didn't have WB trading and we just had the Edgebot, then you'd be nervous. Yeah, I'd be very nervous. But I would, I would package it in a way where I could sell it for a high ticket price. Whether that was with a course element, kind of learn how it works, then use it. I'd probably add on some coaching to add value and make it worth the higher price because we just struggled to sell it at not ticket, I think and it just wouldn't work as well in my opinion.
Fight for both. But yeah, a way you might.
A way you might. I'm just trying to think how you'd actually do it.
I just came off that Perry Belchers conference. Yes. And as I said, I think I mentioned on day one that he, he loves software as a service, as a free lead generator. Is that he's like that's, he loves that model. It might be something where use a mini version of it as a free lead generator or something that helps traders. Like a very simple thing. And then that's. That's the upsell. Yeah, like the immediate upsell. Okay. I've got a bot that does this mechanical trading. It's X amount a month at least to get that initial purchase, you know, then you won't need any phones you want. Yeah, that might work. May or may not. Yeah. Because one of my concerns really is that most of the clients I've seen in trading with it, they trade with such a low capital that even if the bot goes well, it kind of doesn't. It barely. It covers the, the fee plus some, some extra change. But that's kind of my main concern with at least the, the majority of the client base that we currently have. Yeah. I think that's why you struggle to sell it as like a standalone product because not only would people not have the knowledge on how it works. Yeah. Which I think is not. Not great. But they've come straight into it with more capital as well. Yes. So I'll get rich quick. Yeah. It's just like someone saying, I want to. Like you said. Yeah. Think quickly. The timeline on it. I think their capital is going to grow, then it's just going to keep compounding and growing and growing and growing. Yeah. It's a difficult one. I mean, you could sell it organically, but you'd have to build a following first. With paid ads. It would be difficult.
Yeah. But it's just, it's just perfect as a backend. Perfect as a backend. So the conversion rate as a customer is so high. It's high because the people you come in, they've seen what we have, just they gain value. And then like any, if you give it the amount of back end option, like, oh, I trust what I just spent X amount of k for 300amonth to give me X, another X. Whatever. It makes sense. Also, what Charlie was saying as well about how people will buy man's course and even if they don't like it, they won't refill it. Yes. Because it's a back end. So people come in and they're like, they like me, they like Paul, they like Tom and Asri, they have a coaching call. They like this whole thing. Yes. Then they get that. So, like, even if they're low capital, they're very likely to sustain whilst they kind of get the capital to put in because they, their life doesn't trust us and we respect us.
So you don't trade anymore. Do you not worry about staying valid for your clients? Because that's my big fear is because I'm not doing outbound acquisition anymore, which is basically what we teach. I get concerned that, like, you lose this. Yeah. I'm like, can I do coaching? Can I Coach people anymore. So I don't do it, you know. Yeah, I do. Or is that because your exiting doesn't really matter? I suppose it is. It is a concern. It is a concern. But it could be applied to many things. Like it could be applied to. You don't do sales costume. Yeah, I have a little practice for myself because every Tuesday I do the call. Yeah. Just a thingy. But I mean it's, it's definitely a legitimate fear. Yeah.
Yeah. Because I dread the day that someone asked me a question. I'm like, oh, I don't actually know. I always like to think of like Michael Jordan's coach or whatever. Like, or whoever's famous but like they don't do play basketball. Like you don't need to be in the field always, you know. Yeah, you've done it. Yeah. You've done it for so long. Yeah. And you've mastered it and you've earned your stripes. Yeah. But the result is not like outbound email. The outbound email changes every two, every week. Yeah. But wouldn't say there are some core principles that kind of like the mindset and the paradigm nature and systems thinking. But like it's the technicals. I said it doesn't really move the needle that much.
But also without the mindset and the paradigm shift stuff, all that technical stuff doesn't matter, right? No. So one thing, Charlie, I think that worked for me because I kind of went through that as well.
Every time the industry would change, many chat became a thing. Facebook ads stopped working, then YouTube. So what I did to keep myself like okay, I'm in tune with what's working and what isn't. So I felt confident over the phone and coaching and stuff like that is I had my, my go to guys. Right. I had my go to low ticket guy had my go to cold email and I would do regular check ins with them and say hey, what's changed? And they would kind of consult me. You know like you teach your students what your students teach you. Yeah. Well I've got one of my students who does our email stuff. Appointment stat about tomorrow. And like.
He does the potion calls now instead of me and then if there's a question in the community he answers instead of me. So I suppose it makes sense. So you're good. So you know. I know but I just get, I just get fearful of like you know, losing my touch.
What? Yeah. You're not going to exit or anything, do you? Not for a bit. I mean to exit I now need to be decentralized. Yeah, maybe it's Charlie Morgan's coach. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, well you better keep up with it, haven't you?
To be quite honest. Yeah, I think you're just checking with the guys and just keep, keep up to date with like. Well, I've got a finger on the pulse, but yeah, yeah, that's good enough, man. Yeah, it's good enough. But most of it's paradigm anyway and mindset. Yeah, I wanted to say that, but.
So I'll give you guys two examples of how to justify price. Two things that I did. So there's a lot of different ways, but I'm going to go through a very practical one with you. So I had this challenge when I was a broker for HDB training courses. If anyone's British, you know what that means? Hgv. Hgv, yeah. CDL H is a heavy goods vehicle. I used to broker the financing, right? So I had this challenge where we would sell it with financing at £5,000. But then like when I started early on like 2014, I found out that you could buy the same shit down the street for like £2,000, right? And so you can imagine that took a very big hit on my, like how I felt about what I was doing. So am I scamming people? This is that and the other. So I had to figure a way to overcome that. And so what I did was I just ran the numbers and I tried to justify it as logically as I could that it was a better deal for other people. And I'll show you what I did. So this came with financing and this didn't. So the type of person that we were selling to was very low income, low household income. They usually didn't have the £2,000. So that's first off the bat. If they wanted that, they would have to save money for like 12 months. Oops. They would have to save money for 12 months more in order to get £2,000. However, if they did it with us and this person was typically making about £1,000amonth, so nothing. And their expenses was like a thousand pounds a month. So I was like, okay, well if they do it with us, they have to be £3,000 more. So if we finance them to do it, all they have to do is pay £10 up front. First of all, the training takes three months of time and after three months they'll get a job that pays in 2500 to £3000amonth. Right. Of training. In that three month period, they would have paid £99amonth. That means they only would have paid £300, £310 in that whole three months training period. Then they would be making this much once they land the job and we help them land the job. I did everything I could to help them land the job because I had to, because otherwise they didn't feel good about it. When they made this, they would be making £2,000 extra a month, or let's say at the very least they were making £1,000 extra a month if it was a low entry job. And so this was my closing line. This is how I justified it, right. I had to figure this all out. I had to write it down. Every day I would write it down. After I would show them this, I would make them write it down on a pen or wherever and I'll ask them, so if you're making an extra thousand pounds a month, how long is it going to take you to pay off the loan? And then they would say about four months. How long would it take you to get the license without the loan? Never. Right. So technically they were making more money if they paid more. Right. Than by doing that. And so I want to show you guys an exercise because these are. You could do this in so many different ways. I'm going to give you another one right now. Let's say somebody came into Up Level. They already had the course. They already had all of this sorted out and they didn't. I'm sorry, I don't know what Up Level is. Up Level Consulting, the second course that we had, I didn't know what it was. That's what I wanted to ask you earlier. Can you just summarize, what are these four companies you work with? No, no. So I'm Talking about the consultant.com, the first company I used, I'm known for. Up Level was a program that we used to sell for $5,800 as online training business. As part of consulting? Yes. Correct. Yeah. So somebody would come on the call and they would only need one segment from the whole course, only one part of it. They had the ad sorted, they had everything sorted. They only need one thing. And so, you know, you get to the close and you're like, okay, so it's 5800, right. You could easily, you could easily use this line on anyone, really. And I had one segment that they wanted, for example. It was how to sell on social media. Media. I made this segment. It wasn't in the course. I made it just so I could change my belief system about the whole thing. Right? Have you seen this? I remember you sending to me like, your people make courses out of that one. They made whole courses. They stole my.
So it was a one hour video. I made it because I was trying to get over my own personal belief. Because we'll say to Charlie, things were changing. Everyone was doing it on social media. Media. I had to figure the social thing out. So I figured it out. I made a video. But that's the only thing they would want. And so if you just sold one, how much is your program? Oh, it's like 3,000. So how many people would you need to sell in order for it to justify the cost of one one hour video? Just one.
Two.
I could guarantee they would get two sales of that and by the next day they would have closed the deal by the next day. Because I believe that they would be. So just a quick thing of how to justify price on the phone to people. There's also justifying price for your market. I mean, you can talk about that as well. Like for example, means how much do I charge? But this is a quick exercise for you because if you speak to someone about intangible things, you have to think, you have to figure a way to make it logical, more analytical. You have to. People get excited on emotion, but they never ever close on emotion. They only close logically. Logically, because there's an roi. So that's a little exercise for you guys. Look at your offer and see what the return is and try to kind of go through the exercise every now and again. Because logically you'll be like, okay, they'll get this out of it. So next time you come on the phone, you'll feel a lot, much better about it. Right? You can also run this with your sales people. If you guys have a sales team, run it with them and say, hey, look man, if you guys are confused, all they have to do is do this to get this much money. So yeah.
Yeah. So you said when you were selling up level, you had a lot of customers who only wanted like one part of the course. Right. So again, how did you justify charging for a whole course? If they just wanted like, let's say it was six modules and they only wanted one module and they thought that they were. Look at the problem. Why do you want it? One simple question. If we can solve this problem for you, get you to XYZ, is that worth 5.8 kids? Yeah.
Or like, hey, hey, hey, why do you want to solve that problem? You know, how long have you been having that problem for? If you Solve that problem. What would it mean for your business or you or wherever they say, oh, you mean I would unlock xyz then it's going to be a struggle of if you believe your model, fix that. Yeah. But if you believe it's going to solve it then it's pretty straightforward. Because I had that as well quite a lot where when I was selling like just one on one coaching for creative. So wanted to get clients like I would have this whole, you know, plan and they were like, oh, I only need help with the offer. I only need help without reach. People only buy for one specific reason anyway. To be honest. Yeah. But you have to be able to quantify it. That's why I was going through this exercise for you guys. Because if you guys can't make sense of your pricing. But there's also like a, this is, this is like very subjective to all of you. But there's also an objective thing which is if you're trying to charge like to a business opportunity, 10k. Like forget that, forget about. You have to have great financing like Charlie does. So there's also that like be reasonable. I've seen some coaches like jump on and say why not charge 10k? What kind of advice is that, man? Like the market can't afford 10x. Yeah. 10x. Yeah. It's like stupid. Yeah. So there's also that side of it as well. I wanted to ask because this is where we or where I had where I lost my last sales guys. We made that massive jump with fitness as well. It's an emotional sale. There's no like roi. How would you or and this would be for me in the future. How would I justify that price A to a new sales rep as his first gig or B to like someone else who's, who's been in fitness and they know what the products cost out there. How would you justify like 8k them? I think it, first of all, I can't justify it. They have, they have to justify it. If they can't justify then you won't be able to close the deal. But like what reasoning would you kind of take your sales team through to say hey, 8k is actually cheap in terms of like what we're offering. Because that's what happened with our guy. He was like super happy selling five. He went to eight. He didn't sell anyone that week. So this is why people said hire somebody from your own team. So because they know what the justification is. Right. I mean maybe you know, as all but like it could be different for Everyone. So somebody might want to get in shape because they want to look good and find it out when they want. Yeah. Their perfect partner. For example, somebody want to look good so they can pick up a hot chick. How much is that hot chick worth to them? Honestly, like. Like, it could be worth everything to that person. Well, I would. Josh, when we went from five to eight, I had a one and I found out, I was like, oh, he wouldn't. He doesn't think about it. He thought there was a value gap inside. Yeah. And then we figured out he didn't believe. Like, we're talking, it was subconsciously. He didn't believe it was 8K. So he wasn't delivering that. Right. You have to find out why they want it. Right. So it could be that it gives them more confidence. I'm just going through a few examples. If it's more confidence. Confidence is priceless. Like, when you feel confident in your life, what does more confidence do for you? Yeah. What does more confidence do for you? Why do you want that? You know, like, so you have to really like. And also, it does come down to, like, the type of person as well, because you're not selling 8K to someone who's can't afford a gym membership. It also comes down to that as well. Some people, they justify it because it's executive. Someone like me would justify because I know if I don't pay 8k, that might be my clothes. See why I'm saying everyone's different. You might come on a call with me and I'm trying to deal with you, and you ask me, hey, you know, how would you make sense of paying $8,000 for a fitness course? I'm very, like, pushy with it. Not pushy. I'm really. I'm really, like, I de. Qualify a lot. How can you justify it when you could get the same thing down the street for a thousand? I will say that to someone. I will say that to someone because I need to prep. Because if they're thinking it, if they're thinking about. They're not telling you, you're in big trouble. Yeah, right. If they're thinking, I could do this, they're like, I don't know, it's too much money. They get off the phone because you never asked them, you could get it for cheaper. And that's what they were thinking. But if you were to ask it with me, I would say, because if I don't pay the 8k, I'm not gonna do it. That's me though. Right. So that's why I said to you, like, it comes down to the person, you know, Even for you, Mark, like energy, how much does the energy cost for people? There's always, there's always a logical reason. Yeah. You can break it down to productivity. How much is an hour of your time? Exactly. Yeah. Do you believe I can give you these results? You know? Yeah. I mean, like, for, for me, it wasn't. It like when I told Will that we're increasing the price, he was like, the only reason you won't sell is if you don't believe in it or your sales rep. Which is exactly what happened. I did and I closed the, the thing. And this is why I'm thinking, okay, before I. We go down this rabbit hole with hiring people again, is do I even, do I take anyone to try and sell the 8K? Do I go out there and look for sales reps and pay for reps to try and sell the 8K? Or do I just leave them to sell like a 5K? Right. Okay, so this is a recruitment question. Have you demonstrated rated you can sell eight grand? Have you got call recording? Oh, plenty. Full pairs daily. Then it's fine. This is just. This might not be correct, but one thing that you. I'm hearing a lot, like a few times at this event, quite a few times when we speak, you keep saying, can a rep sell ak? Will a rep sell a. Yeah, it's because you've got a.
You need to get rid of that, that worry and doubt. Because if, if you've got that in your head when you hire an ex rep, they won't even think, man.
You see the justifying price exercise. You can do this with 10 reasons and I highly recommend you do that. Write down 10 reasons why 8k would be worth it and write down only what you believe or you know. I hate the word belief. Knowing this better, when you raise the price for that existing. Did you have doubt that he'd be able to sell it? I've got one question. Yes, he did. So that's that, that's the source of the problem. Because when you go to tell him, your emotions will just transfer. I can ask you if, if I call for you, you think I could sell 100%? Yeah, I, I could sell. Where's your doubt? Where's your doubt? I'm. I'm a sales guy. I can sell it. So what? There's doubt somewhere. You know what I'm saying? It's just belief, man. It's just one thing you put in your head ages ago. Oh, rep and close. That's it. You just fixed that? You just said I could. But why? Yeah, I. I think I've just been unlucky with. Yeah, with reps. You've only had one rep so far. Oh, we had three. Three. No, I think we had, like, in total that. We. We had like five people in total.
Jason. Five. So Jason, Alex, Joe, Josh and Jackson. So we had five.
When it comes to hiring, let me just say this, because I don't know, Will, if you want to move on, if anyone wants. No, carry on it, please. I'm loving this. Wait, David, real quick. Before, you said 10. 10 reasons. 10 reasons why your product price is. Write those down. 10 reasons to justify why you're charging what you're charging. Yeah. Logical reasons. Logical reasons that. You know. Could we call for a quick coffee break? Yeah, let's do that. Because I'm hired. As long we'll talk about the recruitment thing because I recruit all the time for my video.
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