Why Married Couples Feel Like Roommates | Balancing Marriage, Kids & Business

There is a constant tug of war with people who are married, who have kids, and run businesses. Like, the perpetual stress.

And you're like not in the same connection level when you're working together. You're almost kind of like roommates or business partners or whatever. Welcome to another episode of the Date Your Wife podcast. I am the wife that this guy likes to date, and, uh, we are here in studio ready to deliver some value today, some really important principles, some topics. I want to start with the real elephant in the room, uh, Garrett's 2,000-calorie shake that I'm like, do you order this every day?

Not every day, not every day, most days.

Most days. Like, I don't know if most guys can do this, but I'm like That's like 2 cheeseburgers in that cup.

I don't know if it's 2 cheeseburgers, but it's good.

It's good, and you're like, it has protein in it.

I love this protein.

Nowadays, every— I was watching this funny meme. Nowadays, everybody, if it has protein, they're like, oh, it's protein in it.

Yeah.

It's got protein in my face lotion. It's good for you.

Yeah, I mean, I probably should— I probably should eat some real breakfast.

Even Starbucks is now saying, like, you can get a protein coffee. This is not a protein coffee, but—

We're just both getting fatter as we speak.

No, this is 150 calories. I guarantee that's like—

1,500 calories. But you know what, it's like a meal replacement. No, it's a couple meal replacements.

No, that's just an addition to garbage.

All right, well, we are— we are where we are with it. We are where we are with it. All right, listen, so we're gonna— we're gonna jump into a topic hot right now.

I could just pick the topic.

Your perimenopause.

No, this— here's the thing, perimenopause. I was laughing so hard with our doctor. We have a private doctor, and I'm like I don't sleep good, but I think it's a combination of stress this last year, moving. I was taking, um, some supplements, and like, I just think with your— but let's really address what it is. It's your snoring. So since you've put on some more muscle, I have noticed that you started snoring quite a bit. And every morning I wake up and you're like, you're like, I'm like, I didn't sleep good. But it's because The snoring starts about like 1 AM and goes to about 4 AM. So I sleep good till about 1, and then I'm in this weird like dream sleep. And if a toddler doesn't come in or something wakes me up, you know, it's just like a weird— I never know, like every, every night it's like, am I gonna sleep good or am I not? And usually it's like, it's probably like 2 nights I sleep good and then the rest of the 5 nights I don't. So every morning I come wandering in and Garrett just feels really bad for me and he keeps telling me it must be my perimenopause. That's, that's That's why I'm not sleeping well.

I think it's perimenopause that wakes you up. I mean, that's why you wake up. If you just stayed asleep, this would not be this.

And then he's like telling me, like, I think your testosterone— you've been telling me for years my testosterone's low. I'm like, I'm not going to be as horny as you ever, even if I take testosterone.

I think your libido needs some testosterone.

Stop telling me that I need testosterone. And then you were like, well, maybe it's your progesterone. What do you say? How do you say it? Progesterone?

Progesterone or something like that.

And I was like, I don't know. Maybe. So I reach out to— we both reach out to our doctor the same day, not knowing. Hey, like, I don't sleep good, but I have to be honest, between toddlers and Garrett snoring, like, I don't know, like, should I take something? Like, I'm like, I don't really like melatonin. Like, what do you recommend? And his immediate question was about your snoring. I'm like, because Garrett tells me I'm like perimenopause and like, what does my lab work look like? And he's like, well, you know, last time we looked at your labs is about a couple months ago. He's like, your testosterone is fine. Like, everything, it looks good. And then he immediately went to like, tell me about Garrett's snoring. Snoring. And I was like, he's like, is it like, is it kind of like a soft snore and then it kind of sounds like, like he's choking and dying? He didn't really say that, but he's like, is it like a soft snoring that's like kind of loud and abrupt? And I was like, exactly. It's like kind of like, it's like kind of quiet snoring. There's like, like I'm like worried he's dying in his sleep. And he's like, yeah, it's, it's because he might need a sleep apnea machine. And I'm like, oh, Okay, so you've been telling me I'm perimenopause, and according to my doctor, he goes, well, when did your mom go through menopause? I'm like, like her early to mid-50s. He's like, that's probably when you'll start going through it. I'm like, so I'm not perimenopause? He's like, I see no signs, no signs of perimenopause for you. I was like, so Garrett just needs a sleep apnea machine?

No, not happening. Listen, I think, I think that there's a, there's a time and a place potentially for a sleep apnea machine. Listen, I sleep just fine.

He said he—

I sleep fine. I'm good.

I'm glad.

I wake up refreshed every morning.

I'm glad you sleep fine. And then every morning I wake up and I'm like, ah, I don't know how I feel. I don't sleep very good. And you're like, oh, it's that perimenopause phase.

It's that perimenopause. If that perimenopause didn't have you like wake up to go pee 5 times a night, you'd be good.

I only go once. I wake up for some reason, even if I don't drink a lot of water before bed, but I drink a lot of water throughout the day.

Yeah.

And like, I've just like trained my body. Like every night about 1 or 2 AM, like I just get up and go to the bathroom. And I think that when I get up to go to the bathroom and then I try to go, I try to like, like almost like don't even open my eyes, like zombie walk to the bathroom, just go and get it done. And then that's when I'm like, oh crap, he's snoring. I, the other night I put a pillow over my head and could still hear you snoring.

You had earplugs. You decided not to use them.

No. Every time I sleep with earplugs in, they fall out. Like I've gotten several pairs. Some of them are really uncomfortable and they hurt. And then some of them, like, I just wake up and they're lost. I'm like, I don't want to spend a lot of money on, on these earplugs. They just— I lose them.

But you really— you realize that? You realize that? That while I slept— while we may look at the snoring as an issue, even if I'm not in the bed, which I've tested—

well, no, you've— I've trained you.

You still have a hard time.

You've trained me. It's like our toddler. She gets in the pattern of waking up like at 2 AM, and then for like the next month she's up at like 2 AM. Your snoring has trained my body to like— that's like the new sleep pattern. So now it's like I'd have to— I'd have to go for like a couple of weeks without you in the bed to like retrain my sleep patterns.

I told you I'd be open to it.

Where are you going to sleep? On the couch?

Yeah, I'll sleep in Charlie's bed.

On the bunk bed?

Yeah. The girls sleep in the bunk bed upstairs. I'd sleep on the downstairs. No, they don't ever wake up to my snoring. They don't ever— they don't wake up to my snoring at all. I don't even think— listen, we have no— we have no recorded evidence.

Yeah, I know. But you also record me. They're allegations. You want me to record you at 3:00 AM? I'm like, no.

They're allegations.

Yeah.

I'm not saying they're not happening. I'm saying I have no proof that they're happening. It's like, how would you know how your glutes look unless you saw a video or a picture?

You don't believe me? You think I'm just lying?

No, I'm not saying you're lying. I'm saying you might be exaggerating just like a little bit.

I'm not exaggerating.

Not a little bit of exaggeration?

Some nights are worse than others, but it is like it's loud enough that I put a pillow over my head and I can hear it. I've put white noise on and a pillow over my head and I can still hear it. Last night, though, you didn't snore. And I was like, he's messing with me.

Was it that I didn't snore or is it that you didn't wake up?

I got up to go to the bathroom, my usual 2:00 AM. And I was like, he's going to snore. He's going to snore. And there was no snoring. I was like, hmm.

And you still didn't fall asleep?

I went into like a weird dream sleep, but at least I wasn't like wide awake. Like sometimes when you're snoring, it's like my brain turns on and then I'm just like wired for hours. That's when I wake up and I'm like, oh, I feel like I got hit by a bus. If I kind of fall back in like a dream sleep, at least it's— what is that, like REM sleep or whatever they call it? REM sleep where it's like I'm still kind of sleeping. I'm not like fully wired and my brain's not like— because what happens if my brain turns on, it almost like then makes me anxious and then it like makes me feel nauseous in the morning.

Did you have a hard time sleeping when you were young? Yes.

So I'm a light sleeper.

Maybe my snoring is an issue, but maybe it's on top of that is like the fact that you have some of your own issues, which it accelerates the situation.

I'll tell you the time when I— here's what I can tell you. When finally our older two girls were a little bit older, not in the toddler phase, I had like a 5-year stretch because we have an 8-year gap between our kids. I had like a 5-year stretch where I slept so good, and I'm like, that's so weird. I remember thinking like, that's so weird that I ever had trouble sleeping. And I realized like, it— like in the toddler phase It's really hard because you might have a couple of weeks where they sleep great, then they get sick or they have nightmares or whatever. And so it's like, it's just like a broken sleep pattern constantly. And I think that women probably, well, at least when I've talked to women, it's like they have a harder time. They're lighter sleepers and they have a harder time. Like their brain turns on, like all this stuff that I'm telling you is not abnormal for women, especially women who have businesses and families and toddlers and teenagers and a lot of, lot going on. Like, it takes a lot for me to, like, unwind my brain even at night to go to sleep. I get it.

You're not having a hard time falling asleep, but, like, recently you were falling asleep, like, right away.

Like, 9 o'clock. It's because I haven't been watching TV. I, like, literally, like, I like to watch TV and I'll get into series and stuff. But, like, our Wi-Fi has been shitty this week. And so it's like 9:15, 9:30, and I just am like, can't get the TV to work. And you're putting the girls to bed. And the next thing you know, I'm out.

Yeah. Last night we tested it. Well, I tested a little strategy.

What was your strategy?

Which is like, well, it's not even a big strategy. She's like, you're already asleep, like 15, 20 minutes. I put the girls to bed. I come to bed. I leave at like 8:40. I come back at like 9:20 after story time. I put the girls to bed, et cetera. And I just put my hand on you.

Why are you so irritated about that? You're so— I could tell this morning you were irritated. I was like, I didn't remember that.

I'm not irritated. I'm saying there's— there's a visceral response.

If I'm like halfway asleep, I don't want to be woken up.

Is it that it's waking you up though?

Yes. If I'm— I can— I don't remember.

If I put my hand gently on you.

Yeah, I don't remember you doing that last night. But if I'm like halfway asleep, it's kind of like when Charlie, when she wakes up and she's— you're like— she's like half asleep, half not. And she's like, ah! Like, I'm kind of in that place where I'm almost asleep. So if like someone touches me, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, no, I'm trying to sleep. I'm like— I'm literally halfway asleep because I don't remember that. If I was like just starting to fall asleep, I'd probably like bring you in, like want to cuddle. But like when I'm like not here and not there, don't touch me.

Do you ever like to be touched?

But why are you so offended by that? Like, I woke up—

I'm not offended.

I woke up—

It's just like a natural response.

And you know— no, this morning your energy was like you were bugged at me. And then I was like, I'm like, hey, baby, like, how you feeling? And I was like— Oh, I'm kind of crampy. I started my period. And then immediately your energy was like, mm. I was like, so sorry. So sorry that women, we have to— we're really putting our husbands out because we have a period. So sorry about that. So sorry that—

You felt my energy shift?

Yes, literally. I came in this morning. Usually, like, you give me, like, a big nice hug.

I give you, like, 5 hugs this morning.

No, this morning you came in and you're like, mm, last night, remember when you just, like— shoved my hand off you. I'm like, I don't. And then you're like, and I'm like, sorry, I'm kind of crampy. I just started my period. You're like, mm. I was literally like, so sorry, sorry, sorry to put you out. Like, did you notice your response? Well, you asked me why I was like, you go, you go, you go, it's my favorite time of the month.

I was like, I said it's my favorite time of the year. I was like, okay, yeah, it's my favorite time of the year. Listen, how, how are you supposed to—

as a man, like, here's the thing, like, women already hate having a period, so if I— but I have to tell you because I just like have to be like, hey, if I don't feel good because I started my period. I'm cramping. Like, I want to explain my mood right now so you're not personally offended. So what would be nice is if you're like, ah, that sucks, babe. Let me know if I can help. I'll give you some space. Like, more support rather than like, oh, my favorite time of the year.

I didn't say it like that. I didn't say it like that.

You did.

I think, I think you misinterpret tone all the time. Like, I'll say something and you insert your own tone. It's like, here's what I said. Then there's the tone that you insert, which is not accurate.

Even if you said it with a happy tone, my favorite time of the year, like, I'm like, is it? That's really the sarcastic statement.

So the response you were looking for that would have made you feel more empathy.

It'd be like, ah, that sucks, babe. I'm sorry. Anything I can do for you? That's it. We women, we do not like having a period. And we never know. Some periods are like, they're just smooth sailing. You're just kind of like, eh, I'm on my period. And some periods you're like, if you come near me, I'll stab you. You're like, I don't know why I feel this way, but I swear to God, if you walk past me and you look at me the wrong way, I will stab you.

I think that you have that feeling like 15 to 18 days a month.

No, I do not.

Even outside of the period. I think that there's— I think there's an energy of disdain, disgust.

No, that is you.

No, to me. Not me.

You are— I feel like so your energy towards me is like constantly annoyed. Not constantly, but you get annoyed.

Of course I get annoyed by you. You get annoyed by me? What are you talking about?

No, I don't.

You don't get annoyed by me? Oh, you are full of shit. You get annoyed. You get annoyed half the time with how I do life.

Mm-mm.

Yes. It's why we continue to hang out. It's the fact that we annoy each other so much. The crazy part is, like, you— I mean, admit it. What's the most annoying—

You think I'm annoyed by you if I'm half asleep and move your hand off me. I'm not annoyed by you.

Take a little responsibility. I'm half asleep.

No, you're— I'm so triggered by that.

Listen, if I put my hand on you—

And I'm half asleep.

You got to remember, though, even, like, back in the day, like, 15 years ago—

You got to get over this trigger.

I remember putting my hand on your leg.

You got to get over this trigger.

Oh, I can't— I can't breathe right now. I'm like, what do you mean you can't breathe right now? Is your lung in your thigh? Like, I don't understand how you can't breathe right now. So, like, I'm like, all right. I just put one little hand. That's it. Just, like, this hand.

Just, like, a hand.

I know. How should I have approached last night when you were asleep?

Nothing. If I'm having sleep— No, just like you notice I'm asleep, you're like, oh, she's asleep. So happy she's asleep.

I think we just sleep in different rooms.

Oh, you are a bull.

No, I think it would be— I think it would be the easier solution to test this theory and see if— because what my experience of you is, even if I'm not in the bed or I'm out of town, you still can't sleep well. You still have a hard time sleeping.

That's not true.

How much of it is on me and how much of it is on you? Meaning, how much of it is on my snoring? How I do the bedtime, nighttime versus you?

No, all I'm saying is our doctor recommended a sleep apnea machine and there's this big of a fight on it. It's strange. I'm like—

He didn't recommend it. He said check your oxygen levels with your iWatch, which I don't have an iWatch, so I can't check my oxygen levels.

But why are you so resistant to this if this would, like, in any way, shape, or form help? Me sleep and you sleep like a rock anyway. Why, why would you be so resistant to it?

I don't want to sleep happening machine.

Okay, you'd rather sleep in a different room than just maybe be open to trying it? Even, even Dr. Boyd was like, you know, I have a machine. He's like, a lot of, a lot of men are against it. He's like, but you'll actually sleep better. He thinks he's sleeping good now. Yeah, if his oxygen levels are better, he will sleep better. He will have less brain fog. He will have more energy. He will make more money. He's like, if he just tried it, he would be a believer. And I was like, well, can you please tell him this? I'm like, because he associates it to fat old people.

No, I realize a lot of bodybuilders that end up having them. I just— I said, pun. Like, I feel great in the morning.

But you wouldn't be open to trying it if it helped you and helped me?

Would you be open to trying testosterone?

No, I just answered the question.

I don't need testosterone.

I don't need a sleep apnea machine. Okay. These are things that—

This is weird.

You sound kind of like dumb right now. Like, it's weird that you would say to your wife that it would help you and you're not willing to test it if it would help her. It just seems like an ego. It just seems weird.

Well, the sleep apnea machine isn't about me. It's about helping you.

No, but he also said it would help you.

But I don't need help. I feel fine.

Okay. He just— okay.

Like what I'm saying—

You're right. There's no— you're perfect. There's no reason to optimize.

No, I didn't say that I'm not.

I said I'm perfect.

I'm saying, like, I don't have a problem with sleeping.

It's like when you started taking testosterone, you're like, I feel great. You know you don't have a problem sleeping, but he said it's about your oxygen levels. So if you got better sleep, less brain fog, you felt better, you wouldn't be open to trying it? So if it's something that helps you also, you wouldn't be open to trying it?

Yeah, I'm open to trying it. Okay. Wow. What? You're triggered right now.

I am. I'm like, I can't believe that.

Why are you triggered right now?

Like, here's the thing. If there was something off in like when you're like your testosterone's off and this and that, like I'm constantly getting blood work done and I'm not against trying something. I'm like, yeah, if it helps me and it helps my husband, if like, if in like I'm not against it. If there was something that made me more horny for you, I'd be like, I'm open to trying it. But he's like, no, I don't think you should take testosterone. He's like, there's less benefits for you than there is good, especially with my history of blood clotting and things like that. He's like, I wouldn't recommend it. I was like, okay, I trust that. But I'm like, I'm like, sure, I'll try it. That sounds great. And then something on the flip side, you're like, mm-mm, nope.

I've tried stuff. I tried the mouth guard. I tried the chin strap. I tried the nose thing, the magnets. I don't know. I felt like the mouth guard was working good. I think you're inconsistent in the way that you experience it, though. Depends on the night and how you feel, how you wake up. You have to take away from this, of course. Okay. Yeah, we could test sleep apnea machine. Got it. Clear. On the flip side, you sleeping through the night is an inherent you problem. Even though I might accelerate the problem with my snoring, there's still a fact that, like, you have a hard time sleeping at night. And for me, like, I'm just like, hey, I would like her to sleep at night because she's a lot happier when she does. Yeah.

So I'm just saying, I do get up at least once to go to the bathroom, and sometimes my brain turns on and sometimes it doesn't. But when I— when you are snoring, I find that that's typically when I, like, have a harder time getting back to sleep.

I got it. But you don't want to test me sleeping in Charlie's bed?

I just think that's—

That would be like a temporary sleep apnea machine.

No, I just think that's weird. If you had your oxygen levels tested and you— and our doctor was like, hey, I think you should try this based off of your oxygen levels. And to me, that seems so weird. I'm like, why would you sleep in our toddler's bunk bed? To me, I think it's very— I think it's important for a man and a woman to sleep together. It is like a connecting, bonding piece. Like, when you're not there, I think the reason I don't sleep well is because it's like I'm used to sleeping with somebody for 23 years, you know?

Yeah.

So I think it would be weird to not. But you're kind of— you're so— your ego is in such a hard place where you would rather be like, screw her, I'll sleep in the toddler's bed. And it's just strange to me.

Well, it's not screw her. It's just like—

No, it is a little bit.

So like, look at this. You're like, I want you in bed, but don't touch me. I want you in bed, but don't snore. And I need you in the bed so I can sleep good. But if you're in the bed, I can't sleep good.

If I'm half asleep, I do not get scrutinized because I threw your hand off me. Get over that. That is not rejection. And if I'm half asleep and you pull me in to cuddle, I always cuddle. You have this story that I don't like to be touched and I'm constantly rejecting you. You need to look into this for yourself.

I have. And it's true. Okay.

Oh my God. Sorry about this podcast.

I looked into it.

Where is this going?

Look, you said you had the topic. We're talking about the sleep apnea machine. So listen, let's settle on this. Am I open to doing the sleep apnea machine? Yes. Am I open to seeing if my oxygen— what if you find out my oxygen levels are just fine and I don't have any oxygen level issues, and then there's no need for a sleep apnea machine?

I'm open to that. But like, he specifically said, how— what is his snore like? And I described it and he was like, do a demo of it.

No, do a demo. Okay, do a demo of how you did it for Dr. Portnoy. That's how it is every time.

No. Yes, it's like this slow— like, I'm like Is he okay? I'm like, oh good, it's dying down. I was like—

I'm like— Well, I don't hear any of it.

That's great. That's great. I'm happy for you. I'm happy for that.

That's why I was like, listen, like, if the sleep apnea machine did it, I think it makes a noise, sleep apnea machine.

He said it sounds like white noise, and I was like, okay, I actually like white noise. Joke's on you.

All right, well, then we'll give it a try.

Listen, we're— I'm not gonna I don't find you any less sexy with a machine on, okay?

So I can touch you when I have the Sleep Avenue machine on and you won't flinch? So if I'm wearing the elephant outfit and I got the thing on and I got the tube, and then I reach over and touch you while wearing said device, we're not gonna get the hand push away?

No, we'll just hold hands. Then I can wear my LED mask and all my weird Frankenstein shit, and we'll just hold hands. Like old couples.

All right, listen, we have issues upon issues upon issues that come up around us. Both we face them, we face them, and other couples face them. So there is a constant tug of war with people who are married, who have kids and run businesses, like the perpetual stress. Like you just look at a normal week with how much work affects everybody. Um, what in truth happens? For example, like right now it's Thursday, the time we're recording the show. Monday was a heavy day. Tuesday was a heavy day.

Thursday might be a bad day.

Wednesday was a heavy day. And like, so like Wednesday night's late. Like you've fallen asleep while I'm putting the girls to bed. Like there's— we both have like—

there's always a weird tension with us on Thursdays because it's like Sundays with the girls and then it's like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday with the girls and you work late. And so by, like, Thursday, there's, like, a little bit of, like, a disconnect.

What is the tension? Describe the tension you feel.

No, there's no— like, I feel like I'm good. I just feel like you get— like, every day that goes on, you're, like, more and more irritated at me. Is that true?

That I get irritated at you?

Yeah. It's like this sexual tension slash irritation.

I think it's—

And by Thursday, you're like, I can't even tell if you want to be with me. I'm like—

That's what you feel for real?

Sometimes. Not every week.

Is that what you feel today?

A little bit.

That you're like— the energy you feel is, I don't know if my husband wants to be with me.

Not like in— no, just like specifically today. Not like in our marriage. Yeah. Just like, I don't know if you like want to like hang out with me today. Not like you want to be married to me. I hope you still want to be married to me. It's been 23 years.

Okay, so this morning that was the energy you felt? I don't know if he wants to be with me today, even though this morning was gym morning. Spend time at the gym, could do the podcast. We have dates.

I don't know where— how are you feeling right now with us? I just know Sundays—

I feel like you go into— when you know there is a lot of work to be done, you go into shell mode, which is like, like tired fatigue of like— it's almost like you disconnect from me in a way to just be, because you know that there's going to be a lot of work for a few days. And so there's almost like a The feeling I get is like a disconnect. Not like an angry disconnect, just like a, hey, I'm going to be okay on my own little island for a few days. And because I know we don't cuddle as much, like the last two nights I'm putting the girls to bed. I come back, you're asleep already, which is fine.

I wasn't coming back. Like longer days. I feel like the girls, like, like last night you got home like almost 8, and I feel like that's your only time with the girls. So I assume that you want to go put them to bed, but I try to create space. I'm like, hey, I gave them a shower. I already got them dinner. Like. Like, do you want to eat your dinner and I'll watch a show with them for a minute and then you can put them to bed? Like, for me, it's not that I'm trying to distance myself from you. It's like I almost know you've had a heavy day, so I'm trying to give you space. But then also, like, I know you probably want to see your kids because you haven't seen them all day.

Yeah.

But then by the time you get them to bed, like, and our TV's not working, usually I put on a show and I wait for you, but there I couldn't get the TV to work.

Yes, you're right. Okay, so there's an up and down with this because you look at the weekends, like Saturday and Sundays, I'm just like there. Like, we, we go on date nights 2, 3 nights a week. What? We spend tons of time on a weekend with the kids. Like, I see you every morning. Like, I work throughout the day. Like, there's— I feel like we create an environment of a ton of time together that we did not use to create for each other. But it feels like even inside that time, there's still something missing.

You know what it is?

What do you think is missing?

Well, no, it's like people, like you talk to couples who like work together and you're like not in the same connection level when you're working together. You're almost kind of like roommates or business partners or whatever. And so it's, there's not that same like intimacy and connection even though you spend time together. It's different time, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

So for us with, you know, having kids, young kids, it's amazing to have family time, but it's different. It's like we're, we're managing the team, which is our toddlers.

Yeah.

And so whether it's like together or you're taking Ruby and I'll split and, or vice versa and it's like dividing conquer, or it's either divide and conquer with the kids, or even if we're all in with the kids, like, even like with Bailey, if she comes over, it's like our kids like want our attention. So we're constantly like, it's, it's hard to like zone in with me and you. Yeah. And so like, well, I'll see you in the morning, but I— you're really into your stack. I'm like, I just, I wake up later than you, so I'm like, I'm, I need a minute to clear my head. Like, it's like we see each other, but it's not connective time in the morning. And then if you work till 8 PM and I fall asleep at 9:30, there's not really like any time there. So it's not, I'm not like, it's just kind of like I looked at the last couple weeks how I scheduled our nanny and I felt like it's like Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday is like too long of a stretch for us to not just have like a dinner together, you know? And so that's why like even last weekend was fun. Like, but it was cause I felt like I hadn't seen you Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. And then finally it was like we had date night Friday and Saturday and I was like, oh, okay. Like, I'm filled back up again, you know?

Do you feel like you go into a— you feel like you go into a survival coma?

No.

Like, uh, like you— like, it's like, okay, because like, listen, even if— even if I was home every night, which made an adjustment to schedule, even if I was home every single night at the same time, like, I think the hard part for me is like, we'll come back even from like being on vacation with the kids for 5 straight days. We're with each other every day. I think you and I do a great job of volleyballing the kids.

Mm-hmm.

I don't know if we do a great job of being connected while we're with the kids.

It's hard.

You and I. Yeah. Like, I don't— I feel like there's a, you got them, I got them, you got them, I got them. There's not a lot of we got them.

No, there is. Like, when we're at the pool and stuff, we're like in the ocean together. We're like constantly— I feel like that's your story. That's not really true. But when we're with the kids, like, we're both all in it.

Garrett J White has been more involved in the last couple of weeks.

I'm always in the pool with him. Like, I'm always in the pool. If I'm not— if I'm not in the pool, like, I'm usually always in the pool with him.

I feel like you've been more in the we with the kids, like, while the kids are playing.

Also, I have to say this, and maybe, maybe a lot of guys do this, but like, you don't get to be Disneyland dad and then judge your wife for not being Disneyland mom. If she wants to sit on the side and like scroll on her phone And you don't get to be judgy about that. Like, if you want to be Disneyland Dad, that's great. How I look at it is I'm like, I like playing with my kids, but sometimes they can play together and I don't feel an obligation as a mom that I need to be in there playing with them 100% of the time. Sometimes I want to sit and I want to read something on my phone and I don't want to give two shits about it. I just want to unplug. And it's almost like I almost like want to be like, hey, like, why don't you come sit by me? We can talk, or you can like let the kids play and you can unplug and you can look at your Warrior app or whatever, however you want to unplug. Maybe you want to read something. Like, let's just sit together and let the kids play. But you don't get to judge me because I'm not in the water being Disneyland mom right now, which I think there's a balance. Like, I'm with the kids more, so I don't feel like that obligation to. Whereas when maybe when men are not with the kids, they feel like when they are with the kids, it's got to be like, play, play, play, play, go. But for me, like, I do play. But I don't feel bad for like sitting back and like relaxing too, right? Here's the thing, I've been doing this for so long. Yeah, like I'm like, I like, I get it, I know, but I'm at the point where I'm like, I'll kind of feel bad and then I'm like, like yesterday I was, I dropped him off at Flippo's camp and I'm like, I could have gone to the beach with him in the afternoon. I had time, we didn't have like a ton going, but I always have stuff I could work on, you know. So I, I tell Isla, I'm like, hey, I'll, I'll pick you up early, just text me if you want to come home early. She doesn't text me, so I show up at 3:30, and neither of them want to leave. And so I'm like, really? I'm like, I'm like begging them to like leave camp. And so I'm like, I'm not gonna feel bad about this. So I just sat and worked on my phone and let them play from till 5 o'clock. And I was like, there's like all this— there's little moms have like this guilt that they need to be with their kids all the time. And I'm like, but they— my kids didn't even want to be with me. They wanted to play with the other kids, you know. I don't know where I'm going with this, but here's a question for you.

How— because like this, if, if you look at the game from Let's look at the game from a guy's perspective for a second. Wake up early, coordinate the girls in the morning, be with the girls, even if you think it's not much, even if they're playing their roadblocks. Nonetheless, still being covered by me. So that's happening. Then you get up, I leave, go to the gym, go to work, maybe have like a 9 to 10 hour day of intense calls. And then come home to 2 hours to 2 and a half hours of kids and bedtime routines and putting them to bed, etc. There's not really a space for most guys to be able— outside of waking up early and having time to yourself, because the normal schedule is work all day, juggle and take the kids at night. But women, you have more space for you during the week than I do. So how do you offset that scenario knowing Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday are very intense for me, and yet I cover nighttime routine with the kids every night, but I want to at a certain level. But I'm saying like, there, there's a natural desire to just hand off. Like, you're cool to just hand off and let me run it. At the same time, I want it, but there's also this feeling of like, at times where I'm like, okay, My wife has exponentially more space to herself during the week, during the day, even on the weekends to sleep in and do her thing. Like, when— when does it— like, when does it come my way? And what I mean by that as a guy is like, if I don't wake up early, then there is no time.

If you wanted time—

I don't wake up at 3 o'clock.

If you— here's the thing. Like, like yesterday, like, I was with the kids. Until you got home, which is fine. I went to pick them up at camp and I was with them for the next like 4 or 5 hours.

Right.

Which is fine. I, if you didn't want to put them to bed, you, you can ask, you can just tell me like, that's why I had jammies and everything ready to go. If you wanted space, if you didn't want to put them to bed, I'd be like, cool, can I just have 20 minutes? And then you can have time with them for 20, 30 minutes, color, do whatever you want. Please don't get them riled up cuz then pass them off to me cuz that's a dick move. But if you wanna like color with them, maybe read a couple stories, spend time with them, but then you want me to come in and actually physically put them in bed. I have no problem with that. So then you have space and then I come back to bed. I just assumed because you got home last night at almost 8 o'clock, I was like, hey, like, do you want to put him to bed? You're like, yep, I got it. And then I think you wanted to come back and cuddle, and usually I turn on the TV so that I don't fall asleep, and I happen to fall asleep and you're still butt hurt that I was half asleep, lifted your arm off you. So now it comes back to you being like, when do I get time for me? However, if you would have come back and I didn't— I was still awake and we had sex, we would be having a totally different podcast, ladies and gentlemen. So let's just call it out how it is.

If you'd been awake and we'd had sex, we'd be having a totally different podcast. I don't disagree with you.

Oh my God.

Garrett? I believe your premise in a big way. I'm not going to disagree with it. OK. All right, so this juggle, like, what actually— like, if you think about a week for you, like, what actually has you feel seen and supported? Like, as a woman, like, what, what is the energy, the thing? Like, what, what are some things in our relationship that actually have you feel seen and supported? Because it feels like at times many things I am doing you don't care about, meaning they don't really matter. Because the reframe I get from you is, well, you should want to do that, or that's because you want to do it, or you want to spend— for example, cover in the morning so you can sleep in. 7 days a week. This happens outside of Mondays because I have a call that starts at 7 o'clock. 6 days a week I cover the mornings.

If you want to do it less, I can cover. They're pretty easy in the morning.

But does that— because when I ask you, does that— I don't mean scorekeeping like I'm winning points. I'm just saying, does that help you feel seen and supported or not? Like, it— because like, there's been many comments from you about if you don't want to do it, then don't do it. If you don't— you're doing it for yourself, then do it for yourself. But there's not an acknowledgment on your side, like almost like you don't want to acknowledge that that is helpful to you?

You know what? I do really like it on the weekends. I have a hard time sleeping in during the week. Like, I naturally wake up around 6:30 and get out of bed around 7:00. And on the weekends, I'm like, ah, I want to sleep till 8:00. So I kind of like it on the weekends. That's really nice. If for work you needed to go to the gym earlier, like, the kids are fairly easy in the morning. They'll usually wake up about 6:45. And I'm like, hey, babies, like, go grab your iPads for a minute. And then I'll just kind of like slowly get up, brush my teeth, and go out by like 7:15. Like, if you need to go to work during the week, you can. I like the weekends. Like, thank you for doing that. I just feel like you're already up kind of stacking anyways. And like I said, they usually come in. They're pretty sweet most mornings, at least like they have been with me. Luckily, on the Mondays that you've been gone, like they're literally coming in like, hi, Mom, where's Dad? And I'm like, he's at the gym. Okay, look, literally, Isla's like, come on, Charlie. And they go back in their room and they, like, either play roadblocks together or, like, watch— like, I'll come in, like, 20, 30 minutes later and they're chilling.

But does it support you? Like, do you feel like, as a woman, that that behavior is something that helps you feel filled up? Or is that behavior something I'm choosing just for myself and I need to eliminate the idea that I'm serving my wife?

No, like I said, I like the weekends. It's nice. Like, it's kind of nice that I can, like, unplug because during the week, even though they're easy, I can't mentally unplug if you're gone. You know what I mean? But on the weekends, I find my brain, I can, like, sleep in a little bit and, like, chill. So I like it on the weekends.

OK, so that's helpful.

Yeah.

OK, so that piece, we know that piece is helpful.

Yeah.

OK, so we've spent—

But I also don't want it, like— If you don't, if it's hard for you, like I said, I— if you—

that's what I'm asking. I'm asking like, because here's the thing, there are certain things I would do for me and there are certain things I do for you. I don't do them for me. Like, I do them because I believe that helps you, or I believe that serves you, or you feel, you feel more valued or more connected because I'm doing it. But it seems like you have a hard time even acknowledging it.

You know what's interesting? Like, on the weekends, I'm like, I like to do just like a 20-minute jog. Like, I like to go do the cold plunge and do like a 20-minute jog. And I almost feel like guilty, like asking time. I'm like, "Hey, can I have 20 minutes?" Like, I don't know why, but like, I like feel guilty that it's my obligation to— like, because you let me sleep in till 7:30 or 8:00 and managed them for an hour, now I like feel guilty for asking for 20 minutes because I slept in. But I don't know why that is.

I'm like, well, it's like, if there was—

like, why should I not? Why? Like, like, for example, you're like, I'm gonna go work out, I gotta go to work on Saturday. I'm like, you don't feel guilty saying I have to go to work on Saturday? You're like, hey, that's what I gotta do. You're like, I'm gonna go work out with Ruby on Saturday. There's no like, can I go? It's not like I have to come to you and ask you, hey, can I go get just like a 20-minute jog? You know, you're like, I'm going to the gym, I'm going to work. Like, there's no sense of like— it's like my wife has to cover. There's no set—

like, so for me, why do you feel that you have to ask? You don't ask about much at all.

I don't know, because I feel like I have to be responsible for that time.

Well, it's because you weren't doing anything with the kids till 9. I was covering the kids till 9 on the weekends.

No, you're not.

I get it.

I never sleep till 9.

You wake up at like 7:30, 8 o'clock. I'm not upset about it. I'm saying the reality is exactly that. But who gets up with the girls in the middle of the night? Me.

I don't even hear them, which is weird because I'm a light sleeper, but I don't hear him get up.

I know. But if you look at it, 90% of the nights I put him to bed, 95% to 98% of the mornings I'm engaging with him in the morning until about 7:30, 8:00. Those are facts. This happens 7 days a week, every single week. And I love doing it. And at the same time, it's a lot. Like, it's a lot when it's every single day I'm responsible for that piece and there's an assumption.

So why don't you just communicate what you want? If it's like— like I said, like last night, if you would have come in And I know you just got done with work and you were like, hey, I'd love to. I know I just got home. I do want to hang out with the kids. I'm going to go play with them for 30 minutes in the playroom and then I'm going to bring them back up.

You know what I wanted?

What?

Just to put my hand on you when we went to sleep.

I was asleep. Oh my God.

You're asking what I wanted? I'm telling you right now, it wasn't covering the kids. It wasn't telling them stories.

You wanted to cuddle and get laid like every man does after a long day.

There was no way I wasn't coming up and getting laid last night at all.

There was no No way.

possible. You were already asleep for like 20 minutes.

If after a long day of going to war, what you want is cuddle and sex. It is a human instinct. I just put a hand— producing men.

I just put a hand on you.

You want to cuddle and have sex. You're like, of course. You're like, I've had a long day. I need a release.

Bam. Yeah. I wasn't expecting that last night. So you asked me and said, okay, what do you want? Last night I had fun. I tell the girls stories when I was a kid. I make up half of them. They think they're funny. We do 20 minutes of stories.

Listen, we talk about this with couples all the time. Like, your marriage is only as good as your communication.

This is what we're doing. We're communicating right now. That's why, like, I'm getting clear on this. Like, you said, okay, well, what did you want? Just communicate what you want. I'm like, yeah, don't push my hand off you when I lay down to go to sleep with you.

That's it. Just put my hand back. I was half asleep. I don't even remember doing it. You're like holding me hostage. Oh my God. You're holding me hostage. You're being kind of pouty right now about a hand because your wife was half asleep and she moved your hand.

If this was the only time that you did stuff like that, like, this was an incident, like, one time, like Haley's Comet, and it comes like every whatever, 8 to 10 years. But it's like, it's— you have like either cuddle mode or no cuddle mode.

I think you should start— you love tracking things. I want you to track how many times we touch, hug, and engage versus how many times I actually am like, when I'm sleeping, push your hand off me. Because I bet you there's more touching, engaging, holding, cuddling than there is rejection. So why don't you start looking at the glass half full instead of half empty?

Okay.

You're putting yourself in your own pit, sir.

Okay.

I was like, I— if I'm not— if I'm not, like, awake and I push your hand away, like, why are you so mad about that?

I don't know. And I asked the same question. Why push my hand away?

I was half asleep.

Okay. There's a story. Then I can—

That's not a story. That's a fact.

Well, it's a fact. And the fact is, like, I wanted to touch you while I went to sleep. That's it. I wasn't trying to sexually touch you. I wasn't trying to feel you up. I wasn't trying to have sex with you.

Don't remember it. I was half asleep.

Do you like physical touch or no?

Yeah.

In what conditions do you like physical touch? I'm not talking about sexual touch. I'm talking about—

No, I like— I like cuddling. I like holding hands. I don't like this. I've told you this. That drives me crazy.

Right.

This is a podcast. They can't see that. I don't like being tickled. Like, that drives me nuts. I'm never like that. Other than that, I'm open to anything.

Is your—

do—

is any part of your love language physical touch?

Is any part of my love language physical touch? I don't know. Probably. I mean, I always come in in the morning and I, like, hug you and I hug the girls. So I feel like I'm—

Is that something you want for you, or is that something you feel like you should do for us?

No, it's from— I want it.

Like, you want it?

Yeah. OK. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know.

I'm just asking.

Like, I haven't— I haven't expected— like, because you've been down the path with, like, 5 Love Languages with us. And you were telling me, like, gifts, words of affirmation.

I think that everybody has different levels. But you have all 5 Love Languages.

Yeah. OK. So listen.

But yeah, I'm not naturally, like, a super cuddly person. But I don't feel like I'm very, like, cold and shut down either. I feel like I'm very affectionate with my kids.

Yeah. So I think a lot of that's come down to how we as a couple have engaged with our children and how we have— like, they're very much, very much open, very different than a place like your family and how you were raised. Like, obviously we're doing very different than how I was raised too. Okay, so this all started with a sleep apnea conversation and your desire for me to have a mechanism on my face when we go to sleep.

I just thought maybe test it. But you are really— you'd rather sleep in the bunk bed?

It's not like I'd rather sleep in the bunk bed. I'm just like, okay, I'm willing to try a sleep apnea machine, but only if, like, my oxygen levels come back and say I need it.

Okay.

I don't feel like I need it. I feel like I sleep fine. I think the people I've heard who have sleep apnea machines are people who did not sleep well. They keep waking themselves up. I just get woken up to a donkey kick from you because I'm— Because I'm snoring. All right.

It's not a dunk at first. You know what I do when the first— the snoring starts? I kind of go like this and just like tickle your arm.

Yeah.

And it doesn't do anything. So then I kind of start to poke. And then if the poke doesn't do it, I pretend like I flinch in my sleep. I'm like, gah!

Oh, I've taken— I've taken the vicious kicks at times.

You wake up and you're like— I'm like, oh, sorry, babe, but you're snoring.

Okay, last question. I'm going to wrap this show up. How do—

I have a question for you after this question.

OK. How— you want rock, paper, scissors for the question?

No.

OK. How do you— how can you and I— what do you feel are the conditions that allow us to share our truth without the other person reframing, reacting, or defending? Like, in what conditions have you found for us that allow for you to speak your truth and be heard? I can speak my truth and be heard, and you're not trying to reframe me, which you do, and I'm not trying to reframe you, which I do, and I'm not trying to reject what you're saying, or you're not trying to reject what I'm saying, or flipping the script and just like listening to what the other person's saying.

For me, like, I notice if we have like text exchanges that go on for like a long period of time, or we have like a loop conversation, I'm like, both of us are not being seen and heard by one another, but that's not— I don't believe that's actually our intentions. And that's usually when I will go do my own version of stacking inside of ChatGPT. GPT where I ask a series of questions. But inside of asking the series of questions, I also will say like, these are not my intentions, how do I get my words out better, here's how I'm feeling, so that it's not just like word dumping about my husband. I'm not like, oh, my husband's doing this, this, and this. Like, I'm genuinely trying to understand like myself and you. So I'll communicate how I am like feeling, which maybe I sometimes I do with you, but maybe it's not heard. And then ChatGPT will like like point out, because I work with my— yesterday my ChatGPT was like, you ran out of questions. Like, I told me I couldn't talk to ChatGPT anymore. I have the pro version. Have you ever had that happen? No. I mean, it was a glitch, but I was like, whoa, I guess I've been talking to chat too much today.

I said too many in that channel.

Yeah. And I was like, that's weird. So anyways, but I'll go back through that, and that helps me even like draft something up to you that I've sent you several times over the year, and you're like, wow, okay, now I see what you're saying. Thank Thank you for sharing this. And I'm like, because I hate when I get on this loop because it's like both of us, our egos kick in and we're all trying to defend our own beliefs and whatever it is. And that's not really the intention of either person. And so for me, I don't know if you did. You don't really do your— I guess you do your own version of that in your stacking or—

Yeah, I just don't say anything to you.

Oh, okay. But I come— I said, when I get to a resolution with mine, I almost am like, help me draft up like a letter or a text that I can send my husband to help communicate this conversation. And then I'll read through. And if it, like, makes sense and feels true to me, then I'll send it to you.

So one of the— one of the ways you're saying then that allows you to feel heard is to send a text message with your clear thoughts.

Yeah. And it's almost like good clarity for me too. I'm like, what am I looking to get out of this conversation? It's not just— I know it's not like just Garrett's wrong, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, clearly, like, he's not feeling— he's feeling the same way towards me, and we just had a little moment of disconnect. How can we come back to reconnect?

Okay.

So that's help for me.

Okay. If I try to share my feelings or truth with you, you tend to do this little trick, which is whatever I ask you, you ask me. How can I create conditions with you where, like, you feel like— I feel like you actually hear what I'm saying? Versus trying to reframe. I used to reframe you a lot. You reframed me more in the last year than I used to, the same way I used to do to you. Like, I've noticed it just in our conversations. So how do I get information of me, my truth to you, in a format that lets you receive it without trying to reframe it? By asking me a question about myself. Like, I might ask you a question about you and you immediately redirect like a politician to me. Like, what form? Like, do I send you an audio? Do I send you a video? Do I send you a text?

Do we—

is there a certain time where we create a container where I can share things I'm feeling with and you, like, sit and—

I think sometimes you share your truth with me, and I'm like, that's not true for me. So you can't expect me to accept your truth as my truth. It's your truth. So I can sit and listen to it, but I think my brain immediately is like, Well, that's not my truth. So I like it rewires it to like ask a better question to kind of understand it.

I don't know. Yeah, I think that's a piece. Like, so how can I get in a place where I can share with you without you doing that? Like, you just hear my truth. I'm not expecting you to agree with my truth, but you actually understand where I'm coming from versus like the thing you just said.

I think I feel attacked. I think I initially feel attacked. So my defense mechanism is to reframe and to ask a question to better understand it because I am feeling attacked. Maybe, I don't know.

Okay.

Because why would I— like, if I don't agree with it, obviously there's a sense where I feel attacked, so then I'm trying to, like, understand it by asking more questions to, like— I don't know. You'd have to give me, like— I know I do it. You do it, too. I'm just trying to figure out, like— my only answer to that is it's a defense mechanism because I'm feeling attacked.

Got it. Is there a— I'm gonna do this right in front of the show. Is there a training at 12? Okay, we're gonna wrap this up.

Okay, we just like to leave it a little pins and needles for the next show, or what?

I don't know, we're gonna find out. We're gonna get a sleep apnea machine.

I have another question, but I don't remember what it is now.

That's all right, it was— it's gone. All right, so, uh, we have, uh, we have created a container of conversation to get— we'll find out if we get a sleep apnea machine. We have a group that we have rolled out called Date Your Wife Experience. You can find that on dateyourwife.com/live. Which is going to be a community of couples where these kind of conversations that we're having can be a collaborative conversation with lots of couples every single day, every single week, and also a group experience we do every week virtually together, which happens on, at this point, Thursday nights. So you can learn more at dateyourwife.com/live. Have 35 to 40 couples on there every single week experiencing different questions, different conversations, just like we do here in the podcast. So You're amazing. Maybe I'll get a sleep apnea machine, and maybe sometime we will both feel fully seen and heard.

Maybe.

Yeah, I think we're getting closer.

I think there's— it's, it's like up and down all the time. It's like we like have like a lot of love and respect and appreciation, but we're constantly on this roller coaster of like, like, oh, we're in a peaceful harmony place, and then it's like a few days of working, kids, and toddlers, then we're like and then we're like, gotta get back on. Like, oh, I feel seen and heard. It's like working on it. Like, I don't know if that's normal or healthy, but maybe it is. Maybe it's why we're still together. I don't, I don't know.

Probably has to create some polarity. All right, my friends, that's all we got for you this week. Have a fantastic week. And again, if you've got value from the show, share it up and/or head over to dateyourwife.com/live and participate live with us in a deep dive experience with this conversation. That brings us to another episode of the Date Your Wife podcast.