Elk Hunting Myths Debunked: What You Really Need to Know

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This is the elk hunt podcast, Home to everything elk hunting. I'm your host, Cody rich. From fellow DIYers to elk hunting legends, we have elk hunting stories, tips, tactics and more to get you pumped for elk season. Join us every week for great elk hunting content. Today's episode is brought to you by the good folks over at Stone Glacier, the leaders in ultralight hunting year. And whether you're on a 10 day backcountry sheep hunt or you're covering 10 plus miles a day looking for elk, Stone Glacier's minimalist designs keep the weight down, which pays big dividends when you're covering lots of miles. But it's not just about light packs. Dun Glacier has the full setup now. They have tents, sleeping bags, they have premium clothing. They have everything you need to be a badass ultralight mountain hunter. And one of the benefits is you don't sacrifice the quality and durability with that lightweight gear. So that's what I love about Stone Glacier.

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Welcome to the show. How we doing today, dude?

Cody, Appreciate it. Life is good. Pre podcast, I was telling you, like, sunny sky, 70 degree weather. Turkeys are goblin. Life is good. You know, I just saw my first turkey of the year two days ago and looking, yeah, looking to get back out pretty soon here, so, you know, can't complain, man. Life's good, dude.

I mean, like, yeah, I'm, I got the itch for turkeys this year more than usual. I'm gonna get a lot of flack for saying this, but like, I'm more excited about turkeys than be this year, you know.

Okay, that's not something that we get very often, but to me it's funny because I used to always be like that, but this year I'm like complete opposite. I got two spring bear hunts lined up and I'm ready to get turkey out of the way so I can focus on spring bear.

Yeah, I mean, like, I always, I get excited about turkeys and then like, you know, turkey's a really fun hunt, but it's really not that difficult. So then you're like, okay, like, you know, trying. Next level is fairs for sure. I don't Know, I like, I like calling turkeys. To me, you know, I get a lot of flack for saying, like, elk and turkeys are very similar. I think it depends on where you hunt turkeys. Like, don't get me wrong, like, you know, there's, there's some really dumb turkeys in the world. There's not that many dumb elk. So I will, I will like, acknowledge that and say like, a good turkey hunt can be a lot like an elk hunt, you know, and so, like.

Oh, yeah, I enjoy it. There's a lot of similarities, but at the same time, they're so far apart as well.

I think it's guys that like, kill a lot of turkeys and they can't kill an elk. They get really mad when you say that. They're like, no, it's not sin.

Well, I see. I don't know too much about Montana, but I'm really lucky here in Northeast Washington. I'm from Spokane, so like, the turkey mecca in the state is just like in my backyard. In fact, I like, I live in the turkey mecca and I tell people all the time, like, if you swapped every single turkey out here for elk, then you start understanding your point a little bit more. Where turkey hunting can be just like elk. We just don't have the number of elk as we have the same number of turkeys.

Right, right. And like, even at like where I live in Montana, like, we got yardbirds. I literally wake up every day and watch turkey strutting every single day. And like, I don't know, when I think of turkey hunting, I think of, I don't know, I hunted eastern Oregon a lot and like, so quite a bit south of you. But it's like, dude, we would go all day and if you heard a gobble, you were like, oh, I heard a gobble. And like, go, go, go. And like, you chase it like three ridges and then you'd finally call it in. So like, when I say like turkey hunting is like elk hunting. That's probably why, like, again, at my house, you, you could probably like, do nothing and just like, you, you could put a garbage bag out there and a turkey's gonna run up and be like, you know, so, so, yeah, it depends on where you're at, what you're hunting.

Oh yeah. Either way, smart birds or dumb birds, I love killing them. So I still always try to get my spring turkey in regardless, for sure.

So walk me through. I, I would love to hear kind of like a little bit, 30,000 foot view, like as far as like, what you're doing what you're all about, all those things, and then we'll kind of dive into some l cutting stuff in your l cutting journey. I, I kind of like to hear some of that stuff.

Yeah. I mean, just from a broad perspective, I, I don't really do anything special. I'm just a normal everyday guy and I just happen to, you know, film my hunts. And on the off season, I also film my fishing stuff and then I post them on YouTube. And somehow over the years, people are crazy enough to start following along and pressing subscribe. And not only like pressing subscribe, but actively following along with what I do. And then, you know, just with the, the amount of support from people from doing that. I mean, crazy world nowadays. Like, you can make social media your job. So like, somehow it worked out for me. And so like, this is what I'm doing full time. So I do most of my content on YouTube @simong outdoors. And it really started as a, a complete hobby. Never had any vision of this becoming what it is today. I mean, I started this back in like 2011, if I had to guess. And back then, like, social media is, it's completely different than what we know social media today is. And back then, there's no such thing as an influencer. There's no such thing as a YouTuber. Like, there's no such thing as monetization. Nobody's making a living doing social media back then. So when I started back in 2011, I actually started with an ipod touch because I come from a very poor background. So like, like when I grew up, like, we were like, grew up with the absolute minimum, like, technology was extremely hard. Everybody shared one giant tv. And I grow. I come up from a big family. I have eight siblings, so there's like nine kids and everybody is like sharing one tv. And obviously when you have nine kids with girls and boys from all these different age classes, it's like nobody wants to watch the same thing. Everybody wants their own little thing going on. But then 2011, so I was born in 1997, so that's probably like right around the start of high school for me. And you know, as you grow up, technology moves forward. Like, it becomes more and more prominent in your life. And I got an ipod touch for Christmas. And to me, just the thought of being able to take photos and cameras in my fingertips was, it was, it was amazing because back then growing up, anybody with a camera was kind of like, like, you're really rich if you have a camera, right? Like, and back then the cameras I'm talking about are like the ones you hold over your shoulder like you're, you're legit film producer at that point. And now it's just like, okay, well, I can just have this ipod in my pocket. And so when I started filming, I was actually just filming my backyard chickens. Had nothing to do with hunting, had nothing to do with fishing. But to go one step further, it's like I grew up hunting and fishing. Like my dad and my uncles, they've always been up, they've always been doing it. So, like, I don't know, life outside of hunting and fishing, if you took out all my life, like, I really could not tell you an honest answer where I would be like, right. But anyway, fast forward. Like, I started, you know, just naturally filming chickens, and then I also just turned it to more of just, I'm gonna film whatever I do. And so hunting and fishing naturally came along. And again, back then, it was nothing close to what I do today. Back then it was really just very home style. Like you, you're just pulling up and recording nothing essentially. And then you post it on, on YouTube. And it wasn't even anything about followers. It's just like, I just enjoyed doing it and I enjoyed rewatching whatever I filmed at that time. And then over time, like, you know, you just want to get better and so you start learning how to pick up editing. And so the first editing software I did was Windows Movie Maker because it was free on the laptop. And then you kind of just, you know, ignite this small little passion in this little kid. And then throughout high school and in college days, it's like, you do it on the side, you're in school. And then over time, like I said, people just start watching. And then I got out of college in 2021, like, or 2020 peak. Covid couldn't get a job, Everything shut down. And so I'm like, well, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna do this because, like, what else are you gonna do? And so I did it and then basically went full send after Covid. And right as the world was starting to reopen, like, you know, I saw the light at the end of the tunnel and I was like, I'm just gonna go all the way in. And I went in and then, yeah, made it here. And this is my full time job.

When did you, like, when did the, like the, the light switch flip and you're like, oh, this is what I want to do for a living. I mean, if you started when you're 14, that means like, I mean you were 10 years in when you were like still kind of a hobby in it or like when did you like. Yeah, I think I could make a living out of this.

I think it really started right when I got into college. So I got into College around 2015. And again, that was right when social media was starting to take off, particularly in the hunting space. I mean all the old school television shows, that's when the people who are, who have quote unquote made it started transitioning from TV to social media. For example, like one of my favorite shows, like Solo Hunter with Tim Burnett and Remy Warren, like, I mean I watched them like, because they, they were like the ones who kind of pioneered there, like 2,013, 2,014, 2,015. They were releasing all these shows on YouTube and I'm like, oh, okay, well. But at the same time it's like, okay, well these are actually television shows just being uploaded to YouTube. It wasn't really the YouTube esque that we know nowadays where people are vlogging.

Right.

But then at the same time 2015, Hush started to blow up and this is like more of social media type personality. And I started looking at these guys and again like, nothing's really going off. I'm just like, well like, that's really cool. And as I'm watching them throughout college and I'm seeing what they're doing with Hush, I'm seeing what they're doing the their brand. And then shortly after, I mean, Born and Raised came in with Laying of the free 1.0 in 2017. And like, it's like just watching these trailblazers, just like doing this as their full time job, that's when it started kind of going like, maybe this is a viable option after all, you know?

Yeah.

And so 2017, 2018, 2019 though I'm still in college so like I couldn't dedicate time to do this full time. And obviously money was extremely hard at that time too, because you're in college and. But anyway, as I got near to my end of my college days, like 2020, my channel was doing just kind of okay, right? I think I just surpassed like 10,000 subscribers. So nothing crazy at all. But at the end of that Vortex Optics, my first ever partner still today they picked me up and they said, hey, we want to partner with you. And so I'm like, wait, so you're telling me like this kid that just graduated out of college is just kind of seeing, you know, testing the waters Here has just a household name like Vortex, seeing potential in me.

Dude, how stoked were you in Vortex? Oh.

I was, like, speechless because I remember I told my brother because we had this conversation, like, the year before I graduated. He's like, where do you see yourself with this? And I'm like, honest question to him at that time was, I really don't know. Like, if it works out, like, that's cool. If it doesn't, I'm just gonna go, do you know what everybody else will do? Graduate, get a job, and then work a 9 to 5 and hunt on the side. And then in 2019, I told my brother, I was like, you know, when I hit 10,000 subscribers, I'm gonna reach out to some companies just. Just to test the waters. Like, nothing special. Just to do a giveaway. I wanted to do a giveaway at that time and just to backtrack even more. Exo Mountain Gear at that time in 2018, they saw me do this really crappy, packed them with their Exo K2 tech. And so, like, Mark. Mark Holsing, he's part. He's with Exo.

He.

He was kind of one of the. One of the very first people in the industry to kind of like, say, hey, Like, I. I kind of see you. Like, I see what you're doing, and I just really appreciate you. And so I reached out to Vortex, like, didn't have a clue. I sent an email to customer service of Vortex, and I'm just like, hey, like, I'm just a small YouTuber. Like, I just hit 10,000 subs on YouTube. Like, would you guys be willing to give away like a 10 by 42 diamondback binocular? Like a 200 binocular? And I reached out to Exo obviously, too, and Mark got back to me. He was willing to put a package in. And then three days later, I checked my emails, and from Vortex Optics, it's like, it's this giant paragraph. Like, I just talked to my team and we want to have a meeting with you. And I'm like, they want to have a meeting with me over a binocular? Like, that's kind of weird, but okay, let's do it. And so we schedule a time and then we. I get on there and it's like, back. I mean, the team now that's working on the marketing side is very different than the team back then, but I still connected with all of them. And so here I am, like, just completely dumbfounded. And I'm just. I'm just like, watching them every Single one of them. And like just some of the kindest people today, you know, like Jameson and Eric Barber, like they were all there. Just like, you know, like we see you and like we just really appreciate what you do and, and we see a lot of potential in you. Like, we'd love to not just give you a binocular, like, look, we'd love to give a binocular way in the giveaway, but we also want to pick you up. And I'm like, okay, say less. Like tell me what you want me to do. And so, I mean, long story short, I mean that's kind of where I started. And then that's like my first actual, you know, experience to get into the industry. Because other than before that, I mean I was just kind of on my own. Nobody really held my hand. I didn't have any connections to the industry and whatnot. And then 28, that was like 2019. So rolling to 2020, I graduated in June of 2020. So like now I kind of have some, a little bit of foundation built up into this stuff. And again I graduated peak Covid and so I'm just like, well, with sponsors now, it's kind of like you, I feel like you owe a little bit more than just, oh, I'm just going to do this as a hobby. It's a little bit more professional now.

Yeah.

And so I'm like, okay, well I don't want to disappoint my partner so I'm going to dedicate time. And so I kind of went all in and you know, just tried my best to make the best impressions that I can and to carry my weight of the agreement obviously. And fast forward the next year, a contract expires and I didn't really know if they wanted to resign so I never reached out. And then they hit me, they sent me an email. They're like, hey, just letting you know, like your contract's expiring, like we'd love to resign you. And I'm like, dope. Okay, so, so this is actually like a long term thing. This isn't a one and done type of thing. Like this is, you know, maybe a sustainable type of living. And so they re signed me and then at that time, like my channel was doing well enough where I was just like, you don't like I can make ends meet at this point, granted. You know, like my father, like he's, he's one of the most supportive. Like he just like, he saw what I was doing and even though he, he knew like I wasn't anywhere close to being self sufficient at that time. He was just like, like, you can just live with us like my parents and I'll just take care of everything and you just do, you just do this. And so he allowed me to do it. So like everything I have today, it's like, it's just because of a supportive father who just, you know, even though he's working one household income, raising nine kids on minimum wage, just like, he just like, I want to see you, all of my kids succeed. Right. And so like he, he just basically held the fort down and just allowed me to go out and do everything I needed to do. And yeah, fast forward 2022, the start of 2022. That's when essentially called it my full time job because I mean that's. You made it essentially.

Yeah.

And then so for the past three years, like, yeah, this is just what I've been doing. Just doing content on YouTube and then whatever company, little projects that we agree on, you do on the side. And that's my life.

Super cool, man. Like, where was when you, when you signed the Vortex deal, like, where was your hunting skill at? And I'm kind of curious if you were like worried or like thought you had because I feel like one of the misconceptions is people are like, oh, I got to be some great hunter. I got to kill all these big things and like to, to like a pro, right? Like to be like Remy, like you want to be like Remy, right? Like, where were you and what was that journey like as far as like actually killing, putting stuff on the ground?

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question because I think so often, at least from my end, like, you really forget where you come from. You're like, you're always, I'm always so focused on like, okay, what's the next hunt? How can I do better? But it's like, to answer your question, like way back then, like growing up during the era that I did, like, information of how to hunt was not readily available. Like what we have today, I mean nowadays you can just Google search elk hunting tips and there's like hundreds of articles, hundreds of YouTube videos popping up. But when I grew up, like, really, it's what I call old school, where you're, you're out there walking around, you're, you're timber hunting, essentially. You're just, you know, you're sneaking through the timber, hoping to see a deer at close quarters and you shoot it. That's, that was the tactic. And so like when I, the Problem with that is growing up, like, my dad's always like, you walk too loud, but then you don't really learn it until you actually do it yourself and really learn, like, oh, you do actually walk too loud. Right? And so when, as I was growing into this, like, that was always what I did. And again, I'm a weekend worry at this point, right? Because I. I was in school at that point, and so, like, my experience was really, really low. The only thing I knew was, hike through the timber and hike all day until you run into a deer. The problem with that is, like, it's. It's pretty rare to find a deer like that. Like, yeah, when it works out, it's awesome. But for the vast majority of the day, like, you're not seeing much. And So I remember 2017, I bought my first, like, good binoculars, Vortex Diamondback. And I finally, like, picked up glassing because, again, like, social media is, like, booming at this point. So, like, I'm just consuming as much content as I can, learning from all these people who are constantly killing out. Because the thing about Washington is we live. I live in a state where Washington has basically the most terrible elk hunting in all of the western states. It's extremely difficult, right? And so growing up out cunning was just, like, impossible. Like, anybody who killed an elk in Washington, like, you were him, even if it was a one and done, right? Like, even if you killed one elk every 15 years, the fact that you killed that elk. So in Spokane, like, we have a. We have a relatively.

You knew a guy who killed an elk one time, like, that was.

Yes, like, that was him, even though it was 15 years ago. Like, that's how rare it was back then. But, like, the community, the Hmong community is so small. Like, the moment somebody killed an elk, everybody knows him.

Yeah.

That's how rare it was to kill an ELK. And so 2015, 2016, I'm like, I'm looking at all these people on YouTube, like, these guys are killing elk, like, every year, right? And so it's like, how. Why are. Why are they killing elk? Review. Why are we struggling? Well, in my defense, Washington's outcounting just sucks, okay? Like, just straight up sucks. We killed. We've killed, you know, numerous elk, but it's not without so much time spent just, you know, failing. But to answer your question, where was I? Like, my skill level was really low. I mean, if you go back, like, way back to when I started this channel in 2016, like, shoot, man, like, the first 20 videos, there's probably like one video where I probably killed something. 19 of those videos was just me walking out there filming to hear that I couldn't shoot like does or smaller bucks. And then really just that was it. Like, I started my career, if you will, just making legitimate vlogs without really killing anything. And at the time, obviously, I would have loved to actually kill stuff, but you know, at that time, again, it's not just hunting at that point. I'm self filming everything, right? So it's like you're. You're giving this kid at that time the task of hunting by himself, but at the same time trying to film his kill shots by himself, do everything about himself. And like, you're throwing all these things at him. And so, like, he's obviously gonna start with, you know, like a, like a burden, Like a super heavy burden, right? Like, he's starting with my buddy Jacob. He calls it learning with a handicap. Because that's essentially what I did. I learned with a handicap. But then now, like, looking back, and I'm very thankful for that because the people who, who started following me back then, like, they started following because they just wanted to see me. Like, they didn't really care about me killing animals or anything because they just enjoyed watching my videos for whatever reason. But then it's like you have a really low skill gap or skill level, and on top of that, you're trying to sell film. So when I started, like, man, like, I was as clueless as it can be, man, like, I knew like essentially three spots because I knew deer camp. I knew a spot where we go grouse hunting, and I knew like the local places that we hunt like 30 minutes from home. That was all I knew. And so it wasn't until like 2017, when I was like, you know, I should probably take this more seriously. Where I, like, if you looked at a graph of my experience, like, 2017 is like, it's like a skyrocket. It's like a very exponential spike up. And anybody.

What was that? Why? Why? And what? Let's like double dive into that. Like, or double click into that. What's like, you okay? You're like, oh, man, everyone else is doing really well. If I want to take this, it was, I guess you're pre college, so like, you're just like, okay, I. I need to learn whatever other people are doing.

They're killing elk every year.

How do I do that? Like, what did you do?

Yeah, I mean, I think that just the core of it just has a passion aspect to it where, like, I just really wanted to get better. Like, I really just wanted to succeed. I was just motivated. So again, just consuming content, like, just basically watching what people are doing. And at that time in this example, like, I was just watching people how they hunted. And most of the people that hunted, for example, like, hush, they perched up on a knob, just glassed and they were like, not only were they seeing animals, but they were capturing footage. That was one thing I was lacking because a lot of times when you're timber sneaking, you see an animal, like, he's already so alert, you make a move, he's gone. And so, like, you don't have any content. And so not only is it the hunting aspect of it of like, oh, you're actually picking out critters, you're also making a better video because there's actually content to show. And so that's when I picked up, I was like, okay, may I should slow down my tactics a little bit and I should start adapting. Because again, back then we knew one style of hunting, my family of like 20, 25, we hunted the same way. Everybody just, you know, picked a route and said, this is where I'm going to go. This is the ridge. This is how I'm going to work the, the, the, the route today. And so we just had a bunch of hiking routes so that nobody ended up crossing paths so that we covered as much ground as possible. But then you have 20, 25 people at Deer camp, and on a good weekend, you're ending up with one or two deer. That's a really low odd. And so I was like, something needs to change. And spoiler alert. It was never me that shot a deer. I was always just the one that filmed the dead deer or something. And so again, it was just this really like surrounding yourself with the right type of people too. Because at that time there were like, I have like my super good friends now, the PN Wild guys. Like, they were kind of starting around the same time I was starting too. So, like, when I got word of them, like, oh, these are another group of Washington hunters, like, you know, you just started connecting and you kind of follow each other. I mean, we didn't really talk, we just followed each other. But you keep up with each other. And it's like, okay, these guys live in Washington. Like these, they're. They're pretty consistently successful at killing deer too. And so looked at what they are doing, they were glassing just like how Hush was, you know. And so it's like, okay, there's a pattern here. And if this is working for people, maybe I should hop on this train and, you know, test it out myself. I didn't know that it was going to work at that time, but it's just like, I need to try something different. And so I adapted glassing into my strategy, and voila. Look like, started picking out more critters, starting getting more opportunities because I wasn't spooking the animals before I could put the camera on them and whatnot. And so, again, like, it's like a. It's like a culture shock, for a lack of better word. It's just like, everything I learned growing up is completely, like, washed out. And, like, I'm basically taking in this completely new style of hunting that's not familiar to myself or my family. And I'm implementing it, and all of a sudden I'm doing better than my family. And so it's like, when you see the results and you see the progression of that, it's like, you don't want to go back, you know, because it's like, why would you go back if this is. This new method is working better? And so over the years, I mean, I'm being surface level here, but over the years, it's like you're constantly refining every little tactic. Okay, you can glass, but in the spectrum of glassing, there's so many little things that you can do with glassing. There's, you know, people think of glassing as, I'm just going to throw up the binoculars. I can scan, but no, there's so much more art behind glassing. Glassing with a tripod, learning how to glass, when the glass, what to look for, you know, all that stuff. It's like you learn, or I learned each one of those little subcategories very slow. It took me years to, you know, garner what I had. But granted, the reason why I was able to exponentially grow that learning curve was because I actually dedicated time, you know, during seasons to actually go hunt. Most people would have just said, I'm gonna go hunt the weekends. But to me, it's like I squeezed out as much time as I can during the weekday after school, like, whatever you can name. Like, I was trying to be out there to better myself. And obviously it worked out because it's like every year you just look back and be like, I. I learned a little bit better than what I was where I was the year before. And so Fast forward to 2025. It's like, you know, the learning curve, it never stops. But, you know, you can definitely see there's jumps to every single season that you hunted. At least as a hunter myself.

Totally, Totally.

And so it's like, yeah, started 2017. Terrible hunter. Now you can say I'm a little bit more above a terrible hunter, but I'm still not where I want to be.

It's just like, it's at bats. We talk about this all the time. It's like, you know, you got to get those at bats. A lot of that experience, you know, back in the web, what you described is, like, wandering around the woods. Jaden and I. So Jaden And I in 2019 talked about, like, this level of 101 versus 201 versus 301. And 101 was like, dude, you're wandering around the woods just hoping you get lucky, which is, like, so many people. And then 201 is like, oh, you develop a system. You're like, oh, glassing. Glassing's the thing, right? And so, like, you develop your system, and you're like, I can rinse and repeat this system. And then you. You get reps. You get that to, like, some kind of success where it's like, you're consistently killing. You're like, oh, this system works. Like, you tweak the system until it works, blah, blah. And, like, that's just kind of the big difference. We, man, we joked about this. Yeah. I mean, gosh, it's been a while now, but, like, 2019, we were talking about that, and it's. It's cool to see, like, your. Your kind of journey of like, oh, yeah, I was very much 101, walk around the woods. Hope you found something. And then like, oh, wait, here's the system.

I think I started, like, at 99, but 101. I'll take 101.

So what's. What's your, like, what's your history or story behind elk hunting? Like, you know, you. In the early days, it was like, man, this is like this pinnacle thing that, you know, only some people ever kill an elk. And, yeah, curious, like, where you are and where you want to be.

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Yeah, I think again, back then, the context of it is like, nobody's teaching anybody how to hunt. If you wanted to learn something, like, you had to go do it yourself. And again, back then, we didn't have binoculars. We didn't have nowhere near the equipment that we have today. And so not only that, but, like, you have no knowledge of elk. You don't know. You don't know how elk behave. You don't know where to find elk.

You don't.

You don't even know where elk live in the state, you know? And so, so it's like in Washington, it's like, yeah, you can generalize and say that, yeah, there's elk everywhere in Washington. But, like, the truth is, like, there's only certain pockets where elk consistently live. And not only do they consistently live, they are actively living in. During season. You can go find them in the spring everywhere. But in the fall, when you're actually wanting to see them, it's like, where are they actually at? And so I think the first time that my family went elk hunting was we were actually invited by the Hmong community down to go hunt down in Southeast Washington in the Blue Mountains. And that region down there was spike only for a general tag, and it still is today. And they, they went down there again. My family is completely new. Like, they've never seen an l don't even know what they're doing. And so they get up there and again, old school. So it's like, okay, you go over here, I go over here, send a person over there, and, you know, like, hopefully somebody runs into oak. And so at that time, it's like my, my uncles and my dad and them, they didn't even buy the tag because they were like, we're not going to pay a full price tag for an elk tag. When we have a bunch of kids, like my older cousins at the time, who are still youth, we're just going to buy the youth, the elk tags because it's cheaper and we're probably not going to see an elk.

Right.

And so they go down there. My two little cousins actually double up on spikes. And so that's when it's like, oh, like, this is actually doable. Granted, that was like, way before I was born. I think that was probably like in the early 90s or something. And then from there it was a complete drought. Like, nobody was really killing anything beyond that. And then for me Personally, it was 2012 when I finally bought my first actual elk hunting license, because I did my Hunter Ed in 2009. 2012, we're still in the peak of just struggling. Like, nobody's. Nobody's killing an elk, right? But then again, right around this time, we don't have social media, like, what we have nowadays. But back then, the thing online was forums. And so in. In Washington, there was a hunt Washington forum where.

I don't remember that.

People kind of chime in, you know, and so, Mike. So now we move generations down one. So it goes from my uncles and my dad to, like, my older cousins and my oldest brother, right? Like, the generation is about 10 years older than me. And, you know, they speak English a little bit better, so they can actually read and they can actually understand, learn information, talk to strangers at the store, and, like, just gather information. Because that's the thing about my uncles and my dad is, like, they didn't learn because there was a language barrier. Like, they didn't really understand English, so couldn't really communicate, couldn't really learn from other hunters. And so my older cousins, like, they decided we're gonna go archery elk hunting, right? Because, like, obviously in the rifle season, like, we can't find out because they're not talking. So they're like, you know, we watch a bunch of Primos videos, and seems like they're killing elk with bows, so they pick up a lot archery. Bought all the good old Primos equipment back then. And they go out in September, and, like, elk are bugling everywhere, right? Like, they're like, oh, my good. Like, there's actually elk. And so they. They start with, there's actually elk. Like, we don't see them, but there's actually talking. And so they kind of just. They really trailblazed the path for my family in particular with elk hunting, and they started, you know, getting more and more into elk. And then as the news starts to spread between the family, like, oh, maybe we should take elk hunting a little bit more seriously, because there's actually elk around, and maybe we just haven't spent enough time to hunt them. 2012, my. Or 2011, one of my oldest cousins, he. He goes to Idaho and he kills a bull during rifle season. And. But then at the time, we're like, okay, well, it's an Idaho tag. Nobody's buying Idaho tag. We're all in Washington. It doesn't really mean anything. But we're all Stoked, obviously, because, you know, we're actually killing brands. I think that was the first ever branch pole that anybody's killed in my the family. It wasn't like a five point, right. And so that spread like wildfire. 2012, my other cousin, rifle season in Washington, Northeast Washington, one of the hardest regions to kill. And now he kills a five point up there and we are all like, mind blown. We're like, how? But the thing about my cousin this, my, his name is Kong. He's one of the most analytical and studious people I know. He dissects elk like no other person I know. He will go and find one elk in the unit and he will find it and kill that elk. And not only that, but he hunts hard too. Like, he'll take off the whole week because in Washington, our seasons are short. He'll take off the whole 10 days or whatever to literally hunt one area. And he, I mean he will hunt elk as tedious as some people shed hunt. Like you're literally zigzagging like every 20 yards trying to find the trail of where these elk are. And he finally killed one in 2012, 2013. My family, we go all in that year. We kill nine elk.

No way. Yeah.

So like we go from one elk in 2012 to nine elk in 2013 because there was just a surge of motivation from that. That one elk that my cousin killed in Northeast Washington the year prior 2014, they go back, we go back to the same area and Kong, his brother and my uncle, they triple on a herd of bulls. It's like a herd of like 60 elk. And there was a bunch of bulls with a bunch of cows and like basically ran like they were all like spread out across the mountain. The herd basically came past them one by one and they just started. I mean, it came back. My uncle first, he shot a four point and then the rest of the herd ran over to my cousin Kong. Kong shot the herd bowl and then the rest went over to my other cousin. He shot a five point and then the rest of her just kept running. And then that was 2014. And so like we had like two years of just crazy elk hunting. And at this time, again, me personally, like, I haven't, I've yet to release even see an elk in the woods. 20, 2015, again, this is when I was like, okay, I go to college. This is my freshman year of college. I pick up a camera like a super cheap camcorder. And my cousin who shot the Idaho bowl in 2011, he invites me. He's like, hey, you should come film me on my Idaho outcome. Because at that time with college, it started like September 22nd. So I had like the first two weeks of September to actually go hunt. Because prior to that, in high school, you start school, like September 1st. Like you, I never actually had time to go hun. And so we go out to Idaho, and again, I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm just following them and my cousin. So there's three of us. There's my cousin Chang, my cousin sue, and there's myself. Sue kills a seven point on day three. And I kind of film it. I kind of get it. The thing on video, he kills that one. We hunt for like another week. And my cousin Chang, he shoots a five point bowl. And at that point I'm like, damn, like, this, this is awesome, right?

Like, Idaho is amazing.

Yeah. I'm like, what kind of state have we been living in this whole time where, like, we're struggling, right? But at the same time, like, it's not just the elk hunting side. Like, this is a. I remember this is a time where, like, everything kind of sparked the filming side of things, the editing side of things, the storytelling side of things, the elk hunting side of things. Obviously, it's. It's all kind of like surging at once. And so 2016, I start this YouTube channel. I'm like, you know, like, I want to start a YouTube channel strictly for hunting and fishing. My backyard chickens, they can have their own little YouTube channel. I want to separate my audience. And so 2016 comes around and I.

Wait, how pissed are the chicken people?

There wasn't many of them. There wasn't many of them, so I don't think they really care. But anyway, 2016, that's when I go all in because I'm getting financial aid and I've never seen money in my life. So, like, I'm getting like eighteen hundred dollars a quarter now. And so the first thing I did every time I got that a financial aid was I would buy my books and my school equipment, whatever left money went straight to honey. I bought all my gear because again, I. I grew up with like wearing tennis shoes and like leftovers passed me down pants and like just, you know, goodwill, cheap stuff. And so this is like, all right, I went and bought my first ever rifle, bought a Browning Expo 30 odd six, bought my, you know, I. I went all in 2016. And that's when, like, what I do now kind of took a start, Got more serious, spent more, invested more money into gear, invested More time into hunting. Because now it's like, okay, as a college student, you have a little bit more flexibility with your schedule. So I would go and every time I would have to re. Register for the next quarter of classes, I would register for all my classes in one day. So I would have, no joke, a day where it's three hour. Three, three hour classes back to back. But I would have six days off. So that's what I did. So I would go to that one sucky Monday or something, sit through all my classes, and then Tuesday I would like rush through all my homework. Wednesday through Sunday, like, just out there, like, just trying to learn. Just wanted to spend as much time as I could out there. And at this time, again, I'm broke. So, like, my personal tags that I had in my pocket were very limited. I was stuck to what Washington had to offer. So, like, in Washington, our seasons are so short. So, like, you have a lot of these gaps between your hunts, like my hunts, personally. So, like, anytime, like somebody had an open hunt, like that filled a gap where I couldn't hunt. I tagged along. And a lot of people wouldn't have done that because to them that's like. Like you're just gonna go and you're just gonna get tired for no reason. But to me, it's like I just wanted to learn. Like, every time I was out there, like, I was clearly picking up on something. I wanted to make better videos. I took advantage of everything I could. Took advantage of just filming other people for the sake of I wanted to get better. And then, you know, obviously they get a video to watch of their hunt too. So if you go back, like pre2020, a lot of the hunts I filmed wasn't even me. Like, I was just filming other, like my family members, like my cousins or my dad, whoever. And then 2020, when Covid hit, that's when I kind of shifted more towards myself because, like, you're quarantined, you're by yourself, you can't really be with anybody, you know. And so I started focusing more on myself. But at the same time, the biggest thing was all my cousins. I mean, they're working a normal 9 to 5 job. Like, they don't have as much time as I have. So, like, I would have these days where it was just me. And so I'm like, I'm not gonna sit at home and just, you know, waste my time. Like, I wanted to go out there, I wanted to learn something, and I want to be able to do it myself. I Want to be as independent as possible. Because again, prior to 2020, somebody was always holding my hand. I was either just following somebody's lead or somebody was like guiding me in a way. And so I just knew it's like, I don't want to always be holding someone's hand when, when it comes to hunting. I want to be able to hunt on my own, be the best hunter that I can, and eventually be able to teach someone else. And so again, like this surge of motivation and just passion, if you will, just kind of took me off and I enjoyed every moment of it and I still do. And I think that's the biggest thing that, you know, for anybody that's trying to make it in the hunting industry today. It's like I feel like too many people are focusing on making it a job or making it as a business without the passion. And because I'm going to tell you right now, like, if I didn't have the passion and from the get go, I said I want this to just be my job, I would have quit a long time ago because it was so hard in the beginning. Like, you were like, you're in the negatives for money tags, gear, like gas time, like you're in the big red. And. But then again, it's just because it's a passion project. It's like, you know what, like I, I can suffer a little bit of money loss because I just enjoyed doing it. And the finally 2020 started to like see a little bit of money coming in, started to break even and then just went all in. But then I'm getting sidetracked here. But then back to elk hunting. It's like all of that kind of just went at once because it wasn't just out cutting. It's like I got better as a deer hunter as well. I got better as a black bear hunter, turkey hunter, you name it. And so all of these species, it wasn't just like I surged up as an elk hunter. It's like, no, everything kind of came in at once. But then again, 2020 or 20, 2017, I guess I skipped over that. I killed my first elk with a bow. First year archery elk hunting because I was so inspired by like just the previous like five years of outcoming my family did. And 2017, first day sitting at a wallow with the bow. Clueless Monster 300 class inch six point comes up 17 yards at the wallow. I can't draw my bow. Bow worlds finally draw my bow. And the novice that I was, I pre ranged everything. Everything was already 20 yards for whatever reason. I'm like, well, he ran a little bit, so I'm gonna put the 30 yard pin on him. And I hit a twig and he ran out of my life. And five days later I went and I killed a cow elk. So I redeemed myself in a way. But it's like, you know, it's like it sucks because those are mistakes, but it's like you look back and it's like it's those mistakes that really propel you to where you are today. So like to answer your questions, like where, where did my elk hunting comes? Like, it came from all these mistakes. I've made more mistakes than I have been successful when it comes to outcoating. And I think that's why I'm where I am today. And finally, like, I'm just slowly kind of feel like I'm getting my head out of the water at least to finally have a better understanding of just the different types of elk hunting in the West. Right. Like, just to finally understand that, you know, like, you're not necessarily a bad elk hunter. Washington just has really tough elk hunting. Like cut yourself some slack. Like you can go to Idaho and it's like you're, you're getting into elk. You might not be killing them all the time, but you're getting into elk. So you're a lot farther than you think you are. Yeah. And then finally now just venturing into other states. But it's like I've only killed five elk in my life, so I'm nowhere near experienced elk hunter. But again, because I, I spent, I spent the first 15 years of my life just mindlessly walking around in one of the hardest states to kill an elk. So like I'm kind of, I'm cutting myself some slack here because I really didn't start killing elk. 2017 was my first year. I killed an elk. 2019, killed my first bull. 2020, I skunked out, had multiple opportunities. I skunked out. 2021, I killed a bull, a five point with a muzzle or 2022, I killed a six point with a rifle here in Washington. And I went down to Oregon. I killed Oregon Roosevelt in 2022. So I doubled in 2022, 2023, I passed up a cow elk with a bow because I was after a Monster Bowl. 24, 2024. Last year I what was in Montana. But again, you're hunting new country, hunting a new state. You're really starting at ground zero. Got into elk, just never found a branch bull Right. And then here we are in 2025. So if you look at just my timeline, it's like 20 2009, when I first got my hunter edge to 2017, it's just a dud. But if you look like the past, like, eight years, it's like, that's when all the elk kills start going up. So, like, there's clearly a learning that, you know, I've kind of gone through this, like, the stages of just learning and becoming a better elk hunter.

If you could go back to, like, 2019 as an elk hunter, what advice would you give yourself?

Man, the 2019, I. I'm gonna be honest. 2019 was the year where I truly can say I went all in, because that year. So in Washington, you have four big game tags. You have a deer tag, you have a black bear tag. You have your elk tag. Give you a cougar tag. That was the first year I filled my deer, elk, and black bear tag in one season. And I did all three of those solo, like, and nobody else was with me. And so, like, 2019, that was a year. And what advice would I give myself back? I was like. If I had to say it, the truth is, just do what you're doing because it was clearly working. Obviously, I know a lot more than what I know back then. But the reason why I'm giving the answer I did is because, like, the motivation and the passion and the reason of why I was doing it was right. Like, I was out there because I wanted to learn. Not because I wanted a kill shot, not because I wanted to post something on Instagram for likes. Like, I just wanted to be a better hunter, you know, and because.

Interesting that you, like, you wanted to step out of let's call it a shadow. I think a lot of people get stuck in a. I don't want to call it, like, hunting partner shadow, but, like, they only want to hunt with their partner. And I think one of the. You know, I've been a solo owner for a long, long time, and I think it's actually one of the best things, because it's like, it's you. It's all on you. You have to make every decision. You have to go through every process by yourself, and you've think through it, right? And then, like, for better or worse, like, that's a great. It forces you to learn. It's like trying to remember how you got somewhere if you were riding in.

The passenger seat of a truck versus.

If you were driving. And, you know, and maybe that was a big piece for you? I don't know. Like, maybe I'm putting words in your mouth, but it seems like you're like, oh, I want to go do it on my own. And, like, was that a big piece of it?

Oh, absolutely. Because 2019 was the first year I got my. I got my driver's license in 2019. That's crazy. And so, like, the moment I got my driver's license, I was just gone. Like, yeah, I wasn't really home. I was only home when I had to go to school. And I was driving a Toyota Camry back then. And I'll be honest, man. Like, I took that car to many places where a small car like, that should never have gone. But, like, again, it was just like, I just had so much motivation, and, like, there was really just no stopping at that point. Like, I just knew what I wanted, and. And if somebody was going to hold me back, I was like, you just stay home. I'd rather be out there by myself. Right? To me, it's like, at that time, it's like I was either going to surround myself with the right people, or I was just going to go do it myself. And again, there's a lot of caveats to it, but 2019, I mean, I killed my first black bear solo. I killed my elk solo. I killed my deer solo, too. And all of these were, like, on video. So, like, this was like, I'm actually getting these kill shots on video. I'm. I'm actually become a better storyteller, a better documenter, and I'm making better YouTube videos, better content. But at the same time, I'm also improving as a hunter. I can find animals on my own. I can, you know, make these game plans, and it actually ends up working out. It's not just a blind game plan that just, like, is, like, you're just jumbling over words or jumbling over spots that don't really work, you know? So it's like, there was a lot of validation in that year, the 2019. If there's really. If there's such a thing as a pivotal year, like, 2019 was the year for me, like, that's really when everything just kind of took off, because 2020. So 2019 was one of my best years. 2020 was one of my worst years. So, like, I went from, like, the top to the worst. But that wasn't to say, like, I didn't try. I was out there a lot. But 2020 is just, you know, you have slumps and you have peaks, and 2020 was just a slump year.

What was this self talk after 2020, you're like, yeah, great year. You're like, I got this. Like, this is easy. I'm a great hunter. Like, we're good. And then you're like, 2020, you have a strikeout. Like, what' look like?

Again, I think, again, I think I was just so fortunate to have had the right mindset because, again, nobody was holding my hand at this time. So, like, for whatever reason, I just had the right mindset. If I was after kills, my conversation to myself would have been a lot different. But in 2020, I mean, man, I cannot even, like, put into words how hard I worked that year because again, I'm out of college, so my whole 2020 fall, from August 1st through November, like, it was just wide open hunting. And so, like, I remember August, I hunted. I missed, Like, I think I missed a bear. I was like, almost out there, like, every single day in August just trying to kill a bear. Seen a lot of bears. And in 2021 or 2020, I was super proud because even though I wasn't killing a lot of stuff, the. The video aspect, the content creation side of the thing was it was getting so much better. And so, like, even though I was like, yeah, I didn't kill something, but I'm dang proud of this video that I made that I vlogged and I edited, like, there was a lot of merit to just editing and creating something that didn't necessarily have to do with killing an animal, you know, for. For that to say. But 2020, I mean, I worked hard because there's a saying I go with, like, it doesn't matter if at the end of the hunt I come home with a tag notched or not. Like, if I did everything in my power, I put in all the time, all the effort, I did the best I could, and I just came up short. I'm fine with that. Right? And so, like, I told myself that since 2019, I was like, it doesn't matter if your tag is filled. If you just worked hard and you knew that you couldn't do anything better. Like, you can't beat yourself up for that. Like, you tried. You did your best. And so in 2020, again, it's actually my least successful season in terms of killing stuff. But in terms of video content creation, it was actually one of my best years because that was one of the years where I actually saw the most growth in one particular year in 2020. And again, that came from a slump year where I hardly was even killing anything. Following 2021, I had one of my best years of hunting. So it's like you go from best to worst to best, and so you follow and so you start riding this wave. So you gain a lot of this traction in 2020, being a better content creator and then just also gaining new audience members. And then you follow that with 2021, which is the killer year of hunting for myself. And not only that, but just, you know, the content side of things. And so like, you see this giant boom of I'm a better hunter, I'm a better content creator, and social media is growing and, you know, everything's just looking up. And then again, 2021 ends and 2022 pops out and it's like, that's my job, you know, and so it's like I'm, I'm really like just talking over really long years here, but it's like that's really just a nutshell of how it worked out, you know, and like a lot of the stuff of where I am today, both being a better hunter, being everything, it's just like you just put in the time you grinded for it, you did it for the right reason, and you stay true to where you are today or where you started from, and it'll pay off.

Yeah, a little bit better each day. You know, one of the things, it popped in my head earlier, I didn't ask it, but like the, the Hmong community in elk hunting, is there, like, how did that start? Because I do feel like, I don't know, maybe it's all your family or it's like, I just feel like that's there's, there's definitely a thing where there's like a lot of Hmong elk hunters. I. Where did that start? Is it like just a food based thing or like, where did that heritage come from?

Yeah, the honest question is I don't know where the exact foundation started, but I do know a big influence in elk hunting was actually the Pure Trophies guys out of Montana. I don't know if you're familiar with that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I mean, they were, I mean they lived in Montana and they were hunting elk in the 90s in Montana. You can, you can only imagine how good that elk honey back then was, right?

Oh, dude.

And, and back then, I mean, they were like Burr Yang, I mean, he's the guy that kind of started Pure Trophies and whatnot. I mean, he was the one that was uploading and making DVDs at that time, because DVDs was the thing and they were really the ones, if I had to say so myself, the ones that kind of pioneered elk hunting up until they really publicized elk hunting to the Hmong community. Like, nobody was really doing it to the extent that they were. I mean, obviously there were a few names that were killing elk before they even started, but they weren't really advertising, so to speak, elk hunting. And so when their video started coming, I just remember, like, we're at Washington, we're just looking. These guys kill elk in Montana. We're like, why can't we do that? Like, where's all the elk in Washington? But I think from my knowledge and my personal opinion, it's the, the pure trophies guys really started it all. Like, they really created that hype behind Hmong elk hunting. And the truth is, even today, like the elk hunting is still pretty. Like, it's still overlooked by a lot of Hmong among people. Now it comes to deer hunting. Like, Hmong people are all over that. But elk hunting, it's, it's just kind of, it's still kind of seen as like, like that once in a lifetime type species for most Hmong people. Right. And so that's why when, when I upload my elk videos, they tend to do very well because a vast majority of my audience is actually just Hmong people. Right. Like, it kind of makes sense and it does well because for so many people it's so different. Like they, they're used to hunting whitetails back in the Midwest or the east, or hunting blacktails down in Californ. Elk's really not this thing. And on top of that, again, there's ample amount of Hmong elk hunters, but there's not many people, not many Hmong people publicizing or putting videos out like I am. Right. I mean, peer trophies, they kind of started and they, you know, it's not really their full time job, so they do it when they want to. But to me, it's like that's kind of my thing, so I have to do it. Right?

Yeah.

And so the truth is like, I can't really give you a definitive or correct answer, but like, if I had to guess.

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean. Yeah, that makes sense to me. Like, it just starts with like, oh yeah, people like me do things like this and then it just like spider webs out. That's interesting. So what's the big plans this year? You know, you got any. Okay, any elk hunts or just, it's just Washington or what?

Yeah. So Washington, our draws come out late. We, I think we're one of the last. So our draws come out in June. Same with Oregon. So I just applied for New Mexico. New Mexico draws just came out two days ago. Didn't get drawn. Was not expecting to get drawn anyway. But right now it's like a lot of things are still up in the air, but if everything goes according to highest probability of what can happen, then yeah, I'll have a tag. Two elk tags. Washington and Oregon.

Okay.

And then deer. Oregon and Washington are primarily my two states that I hunt now. And then I have spring bear for both Montana and Idaho for the next month or two.

Nice. Is you gonna do Roosevelt or Rockies in Oregon?

Rosies I'll do, I'll be doing Rosies in Oregon. I try to diversify my, my hunts. If I'm getting Rockies in Washington, I want to go for a different species. It's, it's the same thing with deer. Like in Washington, I'll focus on mule deer or whitetail. And then when I go down to Oregon, like I strictly focus on black tail because, you know, you just want to shoot something different. But again with how the point systems work and all that stuff, like it varies from year to year. But for 2025, that's kind of the. It might be a double blacktail year because I might go down to California. It's on, it's on the to do list as long as I don't draw a tag that overlaps with the season dates I have planned for it.

Heck yeah, dude. Well, I mean it was fun to kind of hear the whole story and it's been cool to watch you along the way. So yeah, well done. That's all I'll say. But yeah, invest of luck this year, man. Like I, I would love to kind of follow along your journey if anybody is interested. What's, what's your YouTube channel? Tell us a little bit about it.

Yeah, my YouTube channel is Samong Outdoors. S A M O N G. It's just my name because I couldn't think of a better name to call my channel. And then you can follow me on Instagram too. Instagram's not really my, it's not really my thing. I just use it because it's easier to update people by posting a story than doing a full blown edit on a YouTube video. You can follow me on Instagram at syl Syoutside if you want to. Those are primarily my two platforms, YouTube and Instagram. They, they already take too much time from my day to day life. It's funny because like people want to do social media as a living, but to me, the more I do as a living, the more I want to get off of it. So, like, I try to limit how many platforms that I'm on.

Clearly, if people were going to watch one video, which video would you send them to?

If one video, I would send them to last year's video. In 2024, my uncle's Washington quality elk hunt. That's the. I mean, that's. That's the highlight of 2024 for me and probably for the past couple years, honestly. So, yeah, the title is a. A big bull elk hunt of a lifetime, because that's a quality elk tag that my uncle drew last year. Took him 16 years to draw. And yeah, it was just a special hunt, you know, and I kind of put. I kind of did everything for it because, like, he's. He's a my. That uncle. He's like my second father. Like, he's super close with us. Like, just always make sure we're doing the right stuff.

He.

And like, I owe everything to him. And so when he drew that tag last year in. In June, the first thing I told my cousin David, which is his son, I was like, you know, like, don't plan anything. Like, I feel like I owe it to you and your family for what you guys have done for me. So, like, I just said, don't do anything. Let me find an outfitter, let me find horses, let me find mules, let me find somebody to pack us in and like, like, let's do this hunt justice. And so I got all of it done. And then, yeah, we went and he shot just a bowl of a lifetime and.

Pretty epic hunt, I assume.

Oh, yeah, it was. It was awesome. You know, he's. He's hunted again. He's hunted in Washington for like 30. 30 something years. And I think that's like his third elk he's killed, you know, and so it's like it. Those. The elk are really. It's a rarity. And so, like, that only adds to the value of how much an elk means to somebody in his shoes, you know, and, you know, just to be able to. From my end, to be able to at least repay him in a little bit of ways. It's like, yeah, that video is just awesome. Like, that's the video to go watch.

Yeah, I mean, kind of unrelated but also related. So my dad, very old school, you know, elk hunter. And I grew up like, my dad was one of the great elk hunters, but my dad shot 16 spikes in his life and never killed a six by six. And one of his final years we drew. So I grew up in Oregon and he drew a Ukiah Branch ball tag, right? And so it was like a big deal. Like, I remember he was gonna like kill a big bull and they, they hunted super hard. I got like stuck with grandpa, of course. I think I was like nine at the time. And you know, he got stuck with grandpa or I guess I could. Grandpa, he was gonna get a big bull and he never did. He never killed a big six. He never killed a six by six at all, which is crazy. He was a phenomenal, well, phenomenal elk hunter for the time, for the era, right. You know, like, he was known for killing a lot of elk. And like I said, 16 bulls never killed a six by six. So like, you know, to him, like killing a 300, like a 270 bull would have been like a giant bull, you know, of. You know, when you call the big bull a six by six, you know, like how many inches?

You know, I think it's just, you want what you don't have. I don't think I can name another hunter that has 16 spikes under his belt. That's a, that's an award in of its own.

That's a whole other kind of challenge.

Oh yeah, 16. Oh, that's better eating than one 300 class inch bowl.

Totally. I mean like, and that was an era where like you, you didn't ass bowls. That was not a thing. Like you hunt for me. Like, it was loved elk hunting. But you hunted for meat first and for like sport second.

Oh yeah, that's.

That's all we ate, you know.

That's awesome, man. Yeah, elk hunting, man. Like, it's, it's special. It's definitely something that I think I try not to take for granted out here in the West. Even as bad as like I trash Washington, it's like at the end of the day, it's like we have an opportunity to hunt elk. And it might not be the best, but it's like we have opportunities. And that's something that's often very easy to overlook. Look like, oh, this tag's terrible. But it's like you at least get a chance to go hunt elk, you know? Yeah.

You can live in California where it's like, I mean, you still have a chance to get out, but it's like once in a lifetime. Yeah.

So it's like, that's something I remind myself just to be grateful for the opportunities we have. I mean, with that what. Where everything's going in the past couple years, it's like you just don't know. Like, next year we can come here. Like, hunting opportunities are diminishing, you know, so it's like you just got to be grateful for what we have.

Yeah. You could be a mule deer hunter.

And, like, they're just shrinking. So, like, at least, you know.

Yeah, yeah, I hear you.

Yeah.

Well, dude, I enjoyed this greatly. So, yeah, appreciate it. Thanks for coming on. Best of luck this year and let's keep in touch, man.

Yeah, for sure. Thanks for having me.

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