Eric Chesser's Secrets to Slaying Elk on Tough Units

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All right, Eric, welcome to the podcast, man. I don't know how, I don't know how. We've never done a podcast before, but stoked to have you on. Stoked to talk to you.

Yeah.

Thanks for coming on, man.

Yeah, thanks for having me on. I know. I think we, it might have briefly come across like we toyed around with the idea like years ago. I feel like I, I did years ago.

I think we had one and then, you know, hunting season, it was, it was like this time of year where it's, you're 100 miles an hour and everything, and it falls through. So glad we could make it work. Dude, I, I got a lot of questions because you are an elk, elk killer. You're an elk slayer. You get it done and all kinds, right? You get archery, rifle, all of it. Are you, do you consider yourself a, like a great elk hunter or like, where do you put yourself in that spectrum? You like, I just spend a lot of time doing it.

Yeah. Like, no, not at all. I. I've never been one to think like, oh, I could teach everybody all these things or I can give all this advice for elk hunting because at the end of the day, my advice is like, well, just stay out there longer and try harder, you know?

Yeah, but I think I've heard you say that somewhere else and I, a thousand percent believe, agree that like, I'm not that great of an elk hunter. I just have more time than most people if, if there was anything. And maybe I get lucky. But honestly, that might be like the biggest hack in the world is like, just, it takes more time than you think.

Well, for example, I think it was a mountain ops deal. They. They wanted me to like, kind of teach a class.

Oh, that's right.

So they had Ryan Carter, Brian call, Randy Newberg, and Corey Jacobson teaching classes. So I'm like, what the heck am I supposed to tell these people when they just got, you know, here's how you call, here's how you study maps, like, here's how you do trail cameras, etc. So I literally was like, dude, all I can really talk about is like, that positive hunting attitude and how to overcome the mental battle, because that's really what it is. And I, that's my strong suit is I have a desire, like, if I have a tag, like, dude, I got that tag with full intentions to fill it. Yeah, I'll do anything and everything. There's. There's no place, like, physically, there's no place I won't go to get it done. And I'm willing to just push through those times that, you know, I think a lot of people might be like, oh, let's head to camp, or, dude, there's nothing here. I'm headed home. This is otc. It sucks. Look at all these hunters. I can just be like, an opportunity is all I want. That's all I need. Is there elk on this unit? And I have a tag. See you later. I'll go try my best to figure it out.

That's a superpower, dude. And I, I think it's underrated because everyone has A plan until they get punched in the mouth. And yeah, you know, you can say you're, you're gonna stick it out. You can say like, oh, I can't wait for this season. But trust me, halfway through your season, this year, someone out there is going to be like, this sucks. I, I should be at home. And like, the, the priorities start weighing on you, right? And like, I'm not. Like, it's totally justifiable. Like, I think we all have those. But, you know, maybe you could talk a little bit just about blocking it out because you have a million things going. You're trying to run a business, you're trying to do all these things. Like, how do you block it out and stay focused or what advice do you have?

Man, I don't know. Like, when I'm out there, I feel like I'm in competition with the mountain like nobody else. I'm not in competition with a single person. I'm like in competition with like the mountain. And I hate when it gets the best of me, like when I go home not punching a tag. And obviously there's some where you're like, well, I could have shot a five pointer. I could have shot something. But yeah, because I maybe saw a bigger bull. But these certain hunts that I love are the most challenging. Hunts are the one I love the most. Like, if you tell me, hey, this is a single digit success rate, not many elk, I'm like, sign me up, that's the one. I want to go and challenge myself and challenge that mountain, like to try to beat it, you know?

And you do you often kill these giants on units that aren't, that aren't supposed to hold bulls like that. Dude, I'd love to hear you, like, just talk about how you're, how you prep. I don't know if you have one of those tags this year. Like, how does it look different for the, I'm using air quads here. But the really hard hunt versus, you know, I don't know, maybe you drew a limited entry. Like, how do you prep for that? How do you go into that mental space? Or how do you think about that hunt?

Yeah, it's, it's changed. Like, I'd say the last, you know, seven to 10 years that hush has been going pretty strong. We get so many tags through the season that I don't have time anymore to be like, oh, that one Arizona tag. I'm gonna go do trail cameras. I'm gonna study all the maps. Like, hunts don't exist until it's like the Few days before, like this black tail hunt. I've had no interest to study. It just like, put me on the plane, get me there, and I'll figure it out once I get there. So there's not a lot of. Of like, preseason prep. Obviously, some of the units I hunt, like, it's just years and years worth of knowledge that I'm starting to build up. But for example, last year I tried to hunt a unit. I never have very low success. And I did study maps as much as possible. And the things I focus on first is like, high glassing points that give me like, big picture. I'm talking, like, I don't need to be close until it's time to stock and, and hunt something. So I'll just study onyx and, and Google Earth and look for, like, high vantage points and places that are easy to get to. So you're like, okay, you know, there's a road or trail head here. I can get to that high point. Like, mark that off, like, check it, mark it off and move. And so I'm very open to move a lot when I'm first learning something. And you're just kind of like zeroing in on what you're going to be like, okay, I'm, I'm here. And when I choose a spot, typically on a unit, it's like that spot. Once I decide that, hey, it holds the elk, there's a bull here I'd kill. I don't like to. I think so many people waste a little too much time within the hunting dates, checking rumors. My friend said this and I heard that I like to like, okay, this is my spot and I'm hunting within that. But it takes me a little bit to kind of pick that spot out, you know? But once I do, man, I'm committed. And sometimes it's good for me, and sometimes it's bad because I'm all like. Like, out of all the elk I've killed, there's only been a few where it's like, that's the bull I'm going after. Probably only fireball was like, that's the bull. Like, I'm pursuing. Other than that, sometimes it's like, man, this. This canyon or general area, it kicked my butt last year. I'm gonna kill a bull in this canyon. I get in these weird, like, competitions in my head of like, if I want to kill, something has to be here. Like, it has to be interesting. And so, and sometimes that works with me and sometimes that work against me. I've, I've been persistent in areas that didn't produce. And I'm like, ah, I kind of maybe needed to move, you know? But I was so committed to this vision. I'm a visionary person. I've learned that through business and even hunting. Like, all, like, it's gonna be like this, and I'm gonna be there. And sometimes that's way off. But a lot of the times it's. It's right, because I, like, create it. I'm like, I'm gonna kill a bull in this canyon or on this water hole or out of a tree saddle. And that's all I. So focus on that thing that when it happens, it's like, yeah, it's not by accident, because that's all I was here to do.

Do you think that there's. I mean, there's. Do you think there's validity and, like, the vision of success? Like, you're going into this, elkon. I'm going to be successful. It's like, confidence, but, like, almost like, I think a lot of people go into each hunt. I mean, like, oh, see what happens. I wonder if I'm gonna kill one or.

Yeah.

And like, Eric's like, here's how it's gonna happen. Here's where it's gonna be. And I think you maybe you push through, like, the. The valleys, right? You push through, like, the LS of the crappy hunt. And you're like this. It has to happen. It's going to happen. You, like, will it into success.

I think it's huge, man, because, like, if you're just positive, like a good, good hunt. For example, there was a late season hunt, and Logan Butler, who was our camera guy, who is Casey's little brother, Even all the years that we've worked together, he never got to, like, go film me. You know, he's always filming Casey. That's just easy because he's in Idaho. I was in salt lake. But we paired up on a hunt right before he left. Hush. And it was the first time he hunted with me. But we went nine days, and I killed a bull on the last morning. And he. It was cool to hear from him because it's my normal. Yeah, dude, I gotta tell you, man, like, I've heard about your motivation and, like, your drive. He's like, I'll tell you what, I've never seen someone so determined to kill a bull on a hunt like that. And, like, you woke up every day positive. You know, you were upbeat, like, dude, we're. It's going down. Like, today's. You know, it's it's happening. And yeah, you're not always right. And I have to battle my own internal, you know, mindset to. To set that and sometimes be wrong and be on the mountain. Like, shoot, I was wrong, you know? Yeah, I think it definitely helps. For sure. I mean, so many people, I do think, throw in the towel way too early.

Yeah.

And it's just because it's so easy to just get uncomfortable, not see an elk for a couple days. And it sounds really tempting to go sit in the trailer or even just pack up and head home because, you know, maybe you can be spending time with your kids and people have different priorities and whatnot, but I think a lot of people just cut themselves short by the. The battle of the comforts. And like, hey, I can just. It's not popping. I guess I can just go home and I can go fishing or do something else.

Dude, it's just such a slow degrade in your mind when you're on those hunts is like, it's not. It's not like a. All of a sudden, it's like every day, you know, it's getting harder and harder. But I love that concept. I very much the same way. It's like, I'm gonna will this into existence. We're gonna make this happen. It's like, the harder it gets, the more things go sideways, the harder I push. When I show up, it's like, all right, bounce around, bounce around. Try to figure it out. But once, like, it's getting harder, it's getting like you're. Like you're honing in on that area. To me, it's like, you gotta stay. You can't let the intrusive thoughts in. You can't let the bad thoughts in. Like, I'll have it. We all have it. It's like, man, I. This hunt sucks. Like, I should be doing this. Maybe I should bounce this area. It's like, no, like, don't let the intrusive thoughts in. You gotta will. Will that hunt into existence. And I 100% agree. 90. I think I 90% huge portion of hunters. Just let the mental get to them. Let the mountain get to them, you know, Let the. Let their own thoughts get in their head.

Yeah, I can't hunt with those type of people, man, because I'm complete opposite. I'm usually the one in camp. And, you know, your hunting buddy should be lifting you up, especially if you're the tag holder and they're just kind of there to help those people who are negative. Dude, I'm like, yeah, I gotta be alone, you know, like, you're bringing me down. And I've been around those type of people, and it drives me nuts because I'm like, dude, if this is how you see every hunt, like, no wonder sometimes you go home empty. Or, no wonder sometimes you're so negative, like, watch me. You know what I mean? I have that mentality of, like, you don't want to hunt. Watch this.

Yeah, yeah. And I. Yeah, I think it's important to step away from that. And if you're hunting buddies that way, like, hey, we got to hunt solo. Like, I got to. I got to do my thing. Like, let me go. And I think it's good to have hunting partners where you have that. Where, you know, you can go hunt solo and do your own thing. That's. Yeah, I. That's the way I am.

Yeah, I. I grew up kind of doing solo. Like, I didn't have a lot of friends that did all these type of things, like I did when I was younger. And I'm. I was used to solo. And even within our business, a lot of people, even viewers and, you know, Casey and some of the guys, been like, dude, you're never on these big group hunts. I'm like, yeah, man. I just don't enjoy them, to be honest. Like, I'm used to just, like, making my own decisions, going at my pace, like, nobody holding me back, and I just kind of like, I want to make my own decisions. I feel like that's the only way you truly learn is if you're checking the sign. And, you know, I've been in situations where you want to go right, but your buddy wants to go left. Oh, you go left and you blow it and you're like, ah, I should have gone right. Yeah. When you're alone, only you can blame yourself for your mistakes. You know what I mean? And when you're in groups, you. It's easy to fault other people. And. Oh, man, I knew it. The wind was. I told him, you know, the wind was going this way, and he told me to go that way, whatever. But when you're solo, man, it truly is up to you. And that's probably why I've never, like, seen myself as someone to, like, teach elk hunting, because I'm like, it's. I can't tell you what's going on in my head, you know? And I did have. I can reflect back and, like, when I start watching some of these old high 8 millimeter tapes I have calling it elk and stuff, when I was A kid and didn't know a dang thing. I'm like, I do have well over 25 years of elk knowledge up here, and it definitely, like, I'm using it constantly. Like, my head. You can hear Eric speak what his head is thinking while I'm out there. It'd be like, oh, fresh sign, fresh rub, like, whatever, you know, Or I know their body language, and I know their natural habits were, you know, saddles and just certain things. But it's hard for me to, like, tell someone, here's how you hunt them.

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, you have to build that gut intuition, and you have 25 years of gut intuition and making your own decisions, doing those things. And I think everyone has to kind of figure that out. The. There's things, you know, you can learn from podcasts or learn from people like you and. And the little things. Like, I mean, just for example, the way you're like, oh, I can already see how you separate finding elk. And you were talking about, you know, just showing up to a unit and. And, like, figure it out. Right. Getting. Starting high. And these are all, like, things you've picked up that are pretty nuanced to you and to everyone else. It's like, oh, you know, pick up the little pieces, and there's, like, little pieces along the way. But the one thing I don't know that you can get without being in the field and doing the damn thing is that gut instinct to be a killer.

Right?

Like, I could tell you, like, hey, be mentally tough. Be in shape, get high. Glass bar. You know, be sneaky. Get the. All these little silly things. But you have to go do it, you know, to get gut intuition about being around elk. And that's. I mean, that's a secret sauce. I don't know. I think the other thing about that is, like, you are really good at digging up elk, and I think I would love to double tap into. You had said it earlier, and I don't think we covered it well enough because you're like, I hone in on an area, and I will focus in. And it's like, one thing I'm curious is, like, what makes you hone in on that earth? Why that one? Is it just. There's elk there?

That's a good question. I haven't really thought too deep into that. It's like, probably half. Half, like, okay, there's elk here. Okay. You know, there's not a lot of people here. And a combination of, like, the pieces that I'm looking For plus the vision I've built in my head, like, for. For whatever reason, I just thought, that's got the look. And. And then I started thinking, okay, here's how it's going to happen. And I'll get, like, obsessed with, like, an idea and then I, like, want to create it. You know, that's why people see me, like, sit in a tree saddle for X amount of days straight. Never shoot a bull. But I'm like, well, I wanted to shoot a bull on that water hole. Yeah. Shootable on that water hole is to sit there every day, you know, which.

Is wild because I feel like you're a go, go, go kind of guy. And so like the, like, just turn it off and be able to sit in a tree. Like, did you struggle with that?

Was it like, that's like reading. That's kind of like reading the room too, you know? So if I like where the first year that happened. Tethered put out like a thousand dollar reward for whoever could film the first elk hunt out of one of their tethered tree saddles. Yeah.

Challenge.

I'm a challenge. I like, dude. I'm challenge driven. And so, you know, here I am, like, calling shed crazy. Like, do you see that thousand dollar, like, I'm gonna be that guy. And he's saying he's gonna be that guy. And he's going up next week. And two days later, I, I'm. I've got. I sent him a picture at full draw on the tree saddle. He's like, dude, go figure. It would be you, you know, because you obsess with the idea of doing that. Yeah, that's worked with me and that's worked against me, you know, like, at times, because I am. So maybe I just want to kill one in this. This spot. Go two seasons without killing one. It's like, man, like, there's still a spot in Colorado that I have to get redemption. I've had. I've hunted the area twice. I've not killed a bull. I've missed one. I missed an opportunity in a tree saddle. And so, like, to me, that just like, fuels me to want to get one right there, only in that little spot. What.

What's your challenge this year? What's the thing this year that you're like, I. I want to do this. What's your vision? What's your vision for this year in.

Elkhonic for the season? Well, I've had. Well, that's kind of funny you asked. So I've had a unit in Idaho for two seasons. In a row and did not wait. The first year I killed a raghorn, which I was stoked too, because it was the first bull I saw on the public side. I play a lot of boundary games, you know, hug the private type of stuff. Last year I hit a bull that was non lethal, totally on video. Could see exactly where I hit him. He went off with his cows and instantly was on the private, which is, that's the risk you're running. And so I've got that tag again. And so I'm already in my head, like, okay, tree saddle there, tree saddle there. Like, so when they're not really calling and active and stuff, like, those are my go to spots early season. So I'm already mapping that out. So, like, it's been a minute since I've put a ton of time into archery elk hunting. So that one is big. An Idaho archery bull put some time into that. And then I have. Oh, the, the one last year that I got was an over the counter tag that kicked my butt 19 days and only saw three elk. All three were spikes. But even these guys, like, you know, Casey and Matt are like, dude, you're crazy, bro. I'm like, but you guys don't understand. Like, yes, I didn't fill a tag I could have. But like, those 19 day, like, those 19 days will pay off someday. And. And people need to remember that. Like, kind of going back to the earlier conversation. Every day spent out there is something you got to take something of value. So, like, in my head, I'm coming home. Like, yeah, I didn't notch the tag. Like, I'm feeling a bit defeated, but I'm like, all that info will eventually lead me to kill a giant bull. And I know it. And so, like, I don't even get Sad about the 19 days invested. I go, that's what it takes to get to like the next season. And so the day that I. I walk up on that bull I killed, I can always know. This took, you know, a season or two or three of learning to get here. And for that reason, like, none of that was a waste. I learned every road system. I found my high points. Now I know how long it takes to get from the road to my high point because I got it on onyx. So, like, every piece of the puzzle will come together eventually. So that's another hunt I'm excited to try. Kicked my butt like, dude, that's bad.

Three elk in 19 days, but those.

Are the ones I love, dude. Oh, someone said this. We're talking about this Sheep head stuff.

Yeah.

I don't know if you followed that, but, yeah, I. I wanted to make it a challenge to find the grand slam of sheep, but only deadheads. And about halfway through, I remember someone was asking me, like, okay, so, like, doesn't that make you want to hunt them? And we're talking desert sheep specifically. And I'm like, you know, honestly, like, I've spent a lot of time in the desert now. I've walked a lot of their country. Like, it's desolate. I like that there's no people out there. Like, middle of nowhere, Nevada. But I'm like, honestly, I saw so many of them. Like, that hunt would be like, you're gonna get one. It's just like, do you like the one that's heavy? Do you like the one with full curl? So I'm like. My answer was kind of no. So in that same conversation, it got brought up that there's some OTC bighorn she punts in Montana. Dude, I lit up like. I'm like, dude, that's the one I want to do. They're like, yeah, go figure. That's the one you want to do. The success is, like, poverty, like, single digits, and it's so hard to get back in there. I'm like, yeah, that's. That's the one I would do. Yeah, the challenging one. So I don't know. I guess there's something about, like, pushing myself through the statistics, you know, like, hey, this is a 6% success. Elk units, like, sign me up, man. I want to be the 6% success. You know, Is that just, like.

I mean, it's a multitude of things, but is that just because it gets you away from people, or is it, like, you're just trying not to be? I mean, obviously, you probably don't want to hunt the same hunts everyone's doing. You're not gonna go on go Hunter Onx or whatever and look and, oh, high success. That means high people. You and I both know what high success rates means. And, like, big tag numbers and big elk numbers. Like, it's kind of the opposite of what you're looking for. You're like, everyone's going over here. I'm gonna go find the hardest unit because I'm not going to see anybody.

Yeah, give me a challenge. I just like. I like a challenge, man. I like it to be tough, and I don't want it to be easy. Like, I've been lucky enough to have two limited entry elk tags in Utah. And don't get me wrong, hunting those Units are unreal, but they ruin you, dude. Like passing 350, 340 and you're just like questioning yourself. Like when you go on an OTC hunt it's like first six point I see is dead. First, you know, mature bull I see is dead. Those are the ones that I actually enjoy the most because there's like almost no expectation. Those limited entry hunts, man, they, they mess with your mind. They mess with a lot of people's minds.

You know, you just brought up a really good point and I, I, I often say get at bats, you need to be around elk, you need to like just learn how to move with elk and you're in a different place. And I, I think a lot of people are this way. They look at guys like you or Lampers and they try to mimic what you do but they don't have the gut instinct or the killer instinct or just the at bats, right? Like Ryan Lampers can do one stock and kill an elk, right? Like most of us are going to screw it up 10 times. So, so don't go to the place where you only get one stock. Usually I do say, and I do believe this, like if you go to instead of hunting Colorado where you're going to see one elk, go to Utah and get into like crazy good elk and you're a round elk. But I will say you point make a good point that you, you don't learn how to find elk in those units because they're around, they're everywhere, right? It's like maybe the skill you have to do both. You have to do the OTC Idaho tag where you have to struggle to find elk. That's a really good skill if you want to be a great elk hunter. Finding elk where people aren't is a big skill, but you also have to like get around elk and figure out how to move.

And like in Utah, you know, we have like growing up like hunting elk seems so far fetched because it was mostly all limited entry and you're just like, oh, that takes 10, 15, 20 years, right. But I've seen a lot of people that stuck with that mindset of like, oh, you know, the otc, the generals suck. The reason they're generals, because they suck, blah, blah. They don't want oak there. But I've seen so many people growing up who never spent time with elk. So when they got their limited entry tag 1, they're like so wound up over it, like almost like anxious and like stressed that you know, of course they all want the biggest One they could possibly find. Which that makes sense. But because they don't have the experience, they get out there and they're just like. They break underneath the pressure or the first six point comes in. They shot it because, you know, they got wound up. I always recommend man go out and get as much time. Like those premium units are fun to go call because they're very active. They're more call. They're, you know, they're more likely to call and answer and come in. And that's where I got my experience early. Was going out to, you know, wasach unit here in Utah, just bugling bulls, cow calling, messing with them. But it's just not like that on a lot of the OTC stuff. It's different. So you gotta. The more you can just bank, the better. I mean every terrain you can try to hunt them in cedars, ag fields, go in the high country. I mean I. I've been lucky enough to hunt elk in all types of different terrains, you know, and they're all so different. And the knowledge you may have in high country doesn't translate to desert well, you know what I mean? So yeah, that's a lot. I just. And I guided a lot of years. I got a lot of elk experience in a short window by guiding and being cameraman and spotter, you know, and. And you just bank so much information in such a short season, you know. Yeah. So yeah, it's if. Yeah whatever people can do to just be out there to get time in the field with them.

100 the, you know, you spent enough time in the tree saddle thing. I don't know much tree stands, tree saddles call the same like just that tactic for hunting elk. I mean outside of like the challenge you took on, do you. Do you think it's a viable tactic and when and where does it work?

Oh yeah, dude. I. I think these elk just never see it coming. They have no clue yet. You know, like they're not like you watch whitetail videos and a deer gets nervous. Like it actually looks up like 100. I've seen enough videos to be like, no, dude, they know like something's up there. I think elk just have no clue right now. So when I, When I made the. When I dedicated the effort to do it that year, it was early in the hunt. So early in Utah's like pre rut, not really popping calling, just wasn't really going yet. I was like, oh yeah. I remember last year I went by this wallow like that looked like pretty good. So I went out there and pre scouted, got the big picture. And right there around the water, I hear a couple bugles in the evening. Go set it up the next afternoon and sit it in a night and then kill the bull in the next morning. So I would definitely recommend adding it to a tool belt. For a guy who's like, got an early season hunt that's, you know, there. If it's not popping, like, what are your options? Spot and stock sit water, sit wallows. I mean, that's the best you can do. So some of those early archery hunts that we have, it's very effective. And again, rain has a lot to do with that too, because if you know the water sources in your areas, like, these are the water sources. Like, we kind of had that figured out one year and then it just rained every day. Like, dude, every creek is a creek. Like, it's no longer like an option.

Yeah. Do you think, do you think it gets the wind? I mean, the whole wind thing, like, the idea to get up would be just to get out of, you know, getting smelled. And a lot of those wallows are, you know, elk coming from downwind. So do you feel like it. It does work from that or is it like. And mountains are so big, it's. It's not quite the same as like deer hunting. I feel like it's like mountains are big. If you're 20ft off the ground or 10ft off the ground, is your scent still kind of masking you?

I think it kind of like still gets down into the mix because I've had plenty of elk wind me from up there, you know, like super close too. Like, I'm here, they're, you know, six yards and they still winded me. But like the time I killed, it was, I got in the tree, the wind was come, the thermals were coming down, I had a lefty shooter, so I had the water to my right. And I remember thinking, like, as I'm sitting, that's a tree. The wind's coming down into my face and I'm like, well, if it's going to happen today, it's going to have to come up from above. And 20 minutes later, here comes a six point from above. Yeah. Yeah. There's no doubt that I would have. Anything that would have came underneath me would have winded me.

Do you think, do you think it's worth trying to call from an interior?

Yeah, I've read in articles and stuff that, you know, people have called in bulls while in a tree stand.

Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. I mean, it's just. I can think of a few areas in my mind where it's, like, pretty open. I don't know. Just call bedding area, and if you can slip in there and do some cow. Cow call, soft cow calls. You get those bowls coming out of the bedding area in that late afternoon. Yeah, I think it's. I think there's a lot of people who are interested in it and, like, oh, should I. And the tree saddle thing, I think helps or makes sense because it's like. And I don't have to get tree stand anywhere.

Yeah, I like it because it's super mobile, and once I got good at it, dude, I could be up and down a tree pretty quick.

Oh, really?

Like, if. If I was like, hey, this isn't popping. Like, I've seen the elk over there. Instead, like, a tree stands kind of clunky and loud, I'd be like, all right, well, midday, I'm just going to slide over into that tree. You know, each tree doesn't necessarily need to be perfect to set it up where a tree stand, it kind of needs to be just right. Tree saddle is a little more nimble. Like, it doesn't need to be perfect.

Yeah. So you had mentioned a little bit about the hustle game and, you know, getting around private and things like that. Do you think that that's kind of done or, like, that's overplayed or, you know, where do you think the whole hustle game, it feels like a lot of people do it. It's hard to do it. Well, we could kind of get into. Get into, like, I don't know, specifics of, like, what makes it hard, um, and what makes it difficult. But I also feel like, man, there's a lot of people doing it these days. Seems like everyone's kind of looking for those, you know, private edges, you know?

Yeah, it's kind of like it's whoever's going to be the most patience. That's where I win. You know how many. It's so easy for people to be like, dude, there's a lot of elk, like, right there. But they're on private, and they go look for them at two days, and they see them on private, they leave, they get impatient. I'm always like, all it takes is one. I might sit here and not even. It's either hot or cold. Like, areas like that that I hunt, it's either hot. It's. It's like they're on your side or they are not. You know what I mean? And the days that they're not, you're just kind of like, check real quick and. All right, well, we can now go look over here somewhere else. Yeah, like last year there was a spot where I had a, for a general season area, just killer sized bull, always had like 20 cows. It's always about 200 yards from the boundary. And each morning I. They had hunters on their side too. So you're just sitting there going, sure, they're, they're right there every morning. They, they don't naturally want to cross. I could tell. But all it takes is one of those, you know, road hunters to either stop to glass them and just see what they are, maybe shoot at them. And so it's like one of those. The boundary game could be really boring. It could be way boring. Like for guys that are just like, I want endless opportunity. If I hear a bugle, I want to chase it. The boundary game's not for you. Yeah, the time, the amount of times that like being in the right spot at the right time for me is like, I'll always like, understand that it's a, it's a game of persistence. Because I'll sit there and go like, dude, in the. Within these seven days, an elk will cross, you know, again. So I'm just like, it's going to happen, but I just have to be there when it does.

Do you feel like you have to be more aggressive? You know, you sit there for five days and finally that herd comes on to public. Maybe that, you know, if this was all public, we could say, oh, it's not a good spot. Let's see if it gets in a better spot. But man, when you've sat there 10 days or whatever it's taken, you're like, we got to kill him now. Like, we force, force it, make it happen.

Yep. Another spot that I'm coming to mind is like, if they're on your side, you go, you move. Now you have no time to make decisions. I think that's one thing that has worked in my favor too, is I make decisions and I commit fast. And I see a lot of people twiddling their thumbs and like, I don't know, maybe we'll just watch them and like, see where they go. Be like, dude, he's leaving. Like, that's where he's going. Where he's going is like gone forever. Yeah, you need to go now, you know, and so I'm pretty aggressive. I think the people that hunt with me, they, they would agree, like, dude, you're pretty aggressive. Like, it's go time. It's. I'm committed 100.

So when you say you get aggressive, what does that mean? You're you. Like, let's, let's play that scenario we're watching. You and I are sitting on the hill. We've been watching these for five, six days. They come out and they're on, and they're in public now. Like, what, what's Eric's gameplay? I mean, lot of variables there. Like, what's Eric's game plan? What does aggressive look like to you?

Aggressive is like, like, I act fast. I make a decision and act quick. And when I commit to that decision, I commit. Obviously, things can change on the navigation and whatever, but typically, if I see a window, like, I act fast when I can predict the window. Dude, they just came here. I know exactly where they're going now. I need to beat them to, to make this, you know, image happen. I, like, I can't hesitate. So when I say aggressive, it's like, I make decisions, I make them fast, and I commit to them.

So in a lot of those scenarios, are you just, let's just walk up to the herd or like, what, what's, what's your tactic? Are you not obviously not calling if it's open country or like, like, walk me through what the scenario might look like?

Usually those are ambushing. Like, the amount of times I've called, like, I must suck at it. I, I, it used to be, I swear, I swear calling used to be easy when I was a kid. I can squeak a hoochie mama or a reed bugle, and dude, just elk poured into me. And sometimes I go there and I'm like, dude, I don't think I understand the language anymore or something. Or they're, or they're way smarter than when I was a kid. And again, when I was a kid, I was going on all these premium units. That's why I say, like, they're dumb kind of.

Yeah.

An OTC unit and try to just whistle on your bugle tubes and like, it's not the same. So I haven't found myself in a ton of situations where calling is, like, really my thing. It's just not like ambushing them is probably my thing. Like, dude, I know where they're going. I, I, you use the wind, obviously, in my favor, and I'll, I'll beat them there, and I'll let them just come to me.

Interesting. So you're trying to get in front of a moving herd and let them walk by.

Yeah, trying to just get in Front of them cut them off. Like if they're. If they are calling ahead of Colorado elk hunt, where it's like they were already calling. I. You know, there was already so much commotion. I just had to get aggressive and get in on him and again get aggressive. Like running up the hill. Like so many of my hunts, dude, the laughing. Like, I laugh. I'm like, if somebody was an aerial view of that show, they pretty like, this guy's an idiot.

Like he's.

This guy's. That'll never work. But then yet I here I am, like, holden got the pole, you know, so, yeah, I'm not like the prettiest hunter, but I'm just. I just. I don't know. I just go for it, you know? And I don't. I don't like dwell on blown opportunities either. I don't sit. Like, I'm not gonna sit back and be like, God, I ruined my chance. Like, that sucks. Like, if I went for it and tried, I'm always like, at least I tried.

Yeah.

And got no. You know, you would have never even had a chance in the first place. No. 100.

How do you. How do you think about moving through all. So you get aggressive, you go to cut them off, you move in, maybe you're behind them or whatever. And you know how it is. You get close to the elk. How do you think most people are not aggressive enough in that scenario where it's like that you gotta move, you gotta get to the bowl. Are you like, let's play it easy there. When do you slow it back down? Or when do you. If you don't?

I mean, it's kind of like you gotta read the room, you know, it's so hard to explain because every single situation is so different. Like this Colorado hunt, for example, that comes to mind. I got busted by a five point and the cows, okay, they're all nervous and looking all weird. But the bull had never seen me. So in my head, I'm like, dude, I don't care if these things are scared of me. They're just like being dumb right now. But the. The. I hadn't even seen him yet, but I'm like, the herd bowl is bugling his face off. To. To him, this commotion is just the herd like being elk and being rut. And it did as soon as they all and that those cows left and he followed them. So I got super aggressive and guess who's up? Guess who's on the tail end of the herd. The last bull, the biggest bull is a herd Bowl. So while they're all being kind of nervous, he was being dumb. So in that situation it was like, yeah, I don't care if you guys are scared. I'm. I'm not after you, I'm after him. But yeah, you took him. But he's still thinking. There's just chaos. So every situation is so different. Like you just gotta. I don't know, it's that like, like you said earlier, it's that it's just up here, you know?

Yeah, yeah. And I, I mean like, it is a read the room and it's tough, but I think, I don't know if it words me around, but it's like, it's a be aggressive, you know, body language, right? Like, I don't know how to explain other than like, you know, watch the cows. What are the cows doing? Or like I'm constantly watching the cows, you know, and then like, what can I get away with? I'm always trying to push it and like move up a little bit closer, a little bit closer. And then if I get to like bow range of a cow, it's, you know, what's the bull doing? Is he stuck on one cow or is he like all over the place? Like, you know, that's the reading the room, I think we're talking about. You're trying to analyze, you know, what's the lead cow doing? Does she look like she's all pissy or, you know, kind of head down eating? Like, are they. Are a bunch of cows eating? If a bunch of cows are eating, probably means we're not, we're not jointly moving, right? But if all the cows have their heads up, that means we're moving, right? We're like, they're, they're still going somewhere. And so like just reading that little nuanced stuff and can tell you a lot and like, is there another bull? Is it just this one bull? That changes everything, right? Like, so if we got two bulls, there's usually a bunch going on and you don't have to get quite as close because he's going to be chasing it, right? Or like, even as I'm following oak, I'm always like, where does the. Where's the bull tending to like one side or the other? Like, sometimes you'll have. He'll be up one cow, he's like hanging out around and so he's always on the right side of the herd, right? And so, you know, sure, you could come around the left, but so many times, like that never works out. You know what I Mean cows, how spread out? It's like this. Like, all these little pieces were picking up, and it's like, man, these cows are getting real spread out. It's, you know, tough to. Tough to, like, get close.

Yeah, you really are, dude. Like, you explained it way better than I could. You're. You don't. You're not consciously thinking about it, but you're literally taking inventory of, like, the situation. You're like, you know, yes, two cows are still bedded, and they're very relaxed and they're feeding, but these. This bull's got a bunch of commotion. It keeps chasing off a rag horn. And so you're like, hey, they're. They're calm. You know, they haven't winded me. They don't see me. Like, I can still move. I can still adjust. Yeah, that's the stuff that's so hard to explain, man. Like, if you feel like if I tried to sell a book on how to hunt elk, it'd just be like. Robert. It'd just be, like, fake, you know, Like, I don't know. It just seems so hard to tell people what to do because every situation is so different.

Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, and this is why I'm a big believer. It's easy to listen to these podcasts, and, you know, there's a million tactics. Are you gonna use a tree saddle? You're gonna, you know, hunt the public, private line? Are you gonna be a bugle guy? Like, all these, like, get really good. Like, if you want to get good at dogging elk or, like, ambush hunting, you know, like, get good at it. Okay, I need open country so I can find elk and I can cut them off, because really tough to cut elk off if you can't see where they're going, you know? And so, like, you got to choose your terrain. And I think, you know, I'll not. Not try to put words in your mouth. Another thing you said earlier is, like, you hone in on an area, and I think some of that gut intuition comes from the huntability, if you will. Like, you know, you get into a spot and you're like, oh, I could kill an elk in here. Like, this is. It's stuck. It's. You know, you can get around. Like, there's just places that aren't huntable. It's not as hunting. Yeah. You know, it's like, you can look at it and be like, yeah, there's elk here, but, like, I don't even know how I'd kill them. Like, I'm sure you've seen those situations too.

Yeah, yeah, that's true, man. Some places they're just more hauntable or more predictable or they kind of have a routine and. Yeah, elk are tough, man. Cause they typically don't have a routine. Sometimes they kind of can have the same habits and the same pathways, same saddles and stuff, but they seem to be kind of all over the.

Do you think those big bulls are more routine driven or less routine driven? Like some of the big bulls, you carved out a hard unit. It's not like, I mean the fireball is a fireball, but like, you know, the big bulls you've killed in like low success rate areas, do they do interesting things or what do they do?

No, they're typically getting pressured by P between people. And all the pressure, they're just so random, you know. Like it is hard on those OTC like premium units. You actually get the chance to kind of like sit back and watch all these things and they are a little more habitual and what they do and. But these high pressured units, they're getting bumped and pushed and you know, the only thing I can predict on these high pressure units is like the elk will most likely go where there's no people. Like, and that's one thing I'll study those units is like what's just past most people's 2, 3 mile hiking limit, you know, like, and that's where I, that's where I study on. Those OTC stuff is kind of just off the beaten path.

Yeah, those pockets, man, it's all about the pockets. That's fine.

It's all about the pockets.

Yeah, because like I think everyone wants to go even if they willing to hike three miles or five miles, like they still want a bunch of stuff to hunt. And so like they all go to kind of same thing. So I mean, honestly, you go to somewhere it's like two miles in and there's only like one little pocket. No one's going there because it's like not worth, not worth hunting, you know, at least that's the way I found it.

What kind of hunts do you like? Time of the year, terrain, like weapon, Anything come to mind?

I'm really into like you finding elk where they're not supposed to be. Like I get, I get more satisfaction out of turning up a giant where like no one's hunting and I found him. Like to me the finding them is cool. Not to say cooler than killing him, but it's like as big for me. And so like when you turn up that giant and he's like living in a spot. It's like hide and seek, man. It's the ultimate hide and seek. Yeah, like, that's, to me, like, what's really cool. I do like the open stuff, but I mean, I have no problem going in the, in the timber with them too. So. Yeah, I do. It's like I like doing new things, trying new things, working on skills. If I can, like, boil it down, the most fun for me right now is trying to be a ninja and get in tight with herds. Like, kind of. I've done the calling thing. It's fun, right? But like, it's really cool. You can slip into like 8, 60 yards or a hundred yards of elk and then slip back out and they never knew you were there. Yeah, I don't know. That's kind of cool.

Yeah, that's way fun.

But then finding that big bowl is, I mean, that's always gonna push you over the edge.

What do you consider a big bowl for, like, where you hunt and the units you hit.

You'Re not supposed to, like, you know, it's tough because, like, every time you talk about these things on the Internet, people get really mad. To me, a big bowl, I would say anything over 350 is a great ball. Like, that's a big. Yeah, like that's a, That's a big bowl. 320 and 330s were great bowls. Like, you know, like, it depends on where you're at, right? Like, I. I came from Oregon, so back then a 300 inch bowl was a great bull. And a lot of people hunt where 300 inch bull is a phenomenal bowl. You know, I am pretty fortunate that I get to hunt, you know, in a play in Montana. And like, you know, a good, mature bull is generally speaking over 320 inches. So, you know, it's like the genetics thing's really crazy to me because, you know, I passed like a 315 bowl a couple years ago and people lost their mind. But I'm like, dude, that bowl was just a tiny little six. I mean, and when I say that, I don't mean like the number of inches. I'm just like saying he's like, he's thin horned, you know, he's young. Like, he was just. And if I was in, I don't know, Oregon or something, that would have been like a, a 230 or 240, you know, five by six or something. And so I was like, yeah, he's got really good genetics, but he's still, you know, Just a little bull. So I don't know, like, do people give you crap or like, what's, what's your term for a big bull?

Well, I'm with you. Like, I mean, just in general on elk, I think people don't real. Like, most people don't realize like, how big a 340 bull is. Like, if you held a 340 set of sheds, like, dude, that's pretty big. Even 330 is like right there where it's like, dude, that's, that's bad.

A.

You know, like, that's a nice bull, great bull. And obviously it's. So I think, like, when it comes to like, sheds, I'm like, Dude, 320 and up are. Are just like nice, solid. Those are big bulls. You know, you grab it and it's, you know, eight to ten pounds. You're like, that's pretty sweet. But then of course, like, when it comes to like how I think on my hunts, it's all unit specific. So, dude, if you're killing a 300 inch 6 point on OTC, like, dude, that's so cool. You know, like, sometimes I have these sick, you know, these bulls here, and I'm like, dude, how cool is it that you can hunt bulls this size every single year, you know? TC general season in Utah, Idaho still has some. You got to get the tags fast, but they're considered general season. Just to be able to hunt like a six point, I think is sweet. When I killed the fireball, that was pretty early, like, in my hunting careers. I don't know what number elk it was that I killed, but it's low. Like, it's like in the first wave of bulls killed. And so many people are like, dude, you're spoiled. What are you gonna do now? And I'm like, go get an over the counter tag next year. Like, yeah, kill us excited over everything.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. And depending. It just kind of depends on the hot. What's the number that, like when you see a bowl, you get excited. You know that feeling like, oh, that's a good one. What do you think that number is.

Like, on a. Like, say I have a tag in my pocket and I see one. Yeah, I probably say, like through even seeing a 320 bull get me pumped. You know, on most of the hunts I have, I had like a late season, limited entry hunt and I was passing some slammers. That's where I was like, dude, this is mentally, like, this is harder. This is harder than otc. Like, and I've been, you Know know I've been so lucky that the first bull I saw on a lot of these hunts just so happened to be a, a giant for that tag. It wasn't that I like went in search of it. It was. Well, that's just a, a big bull. But it was the only one I saw, you know, that was a nice bull for that unit. I was like, yeah, it was the first one that got gave me a shot. So I've been pretty lucky that on some of those hunts it just so happened to be like a good bull.

Yeah. But if you're churning up like three twenties every day, do you feel like you're like. It just doesn't feel as special.

Yeah. 100 like those, that limited entry tag I had is. Yeah, I look, I passed like a 370 bull not knowing it. I mean I knew he was big, but he's bigger than the bull I killed. And the only reason I didn't shoot him is because he had these dumb fronts. I'm talking framy everywhere, dude. Beams, width, stack, stack stacked all the way up. But he had these dumb straight 12 inch fronts. And I was like, I want something with big fronts, you know. Yeah, he killed this bull. That his name. I named him Kickstand and he's all unders.

Yeah.

With like 45 inch beams, you know. So I'm like looking back on that hunt, like that one was way bigger than the bull I killed. But that's the first bull that got me excited like. And once I saw him I kind of was glued to the idea of shooting him.

Dude, I like a dream bowl and a dream bowl, dark horns, curled fronts and whales tails. Like whale tails is like clean six. If that was a 320 ball. Hell if that was a 315 bull, I'd be like, oh, you know, it doesn't matter to me how big the frame was.

Like I.

There are bulls that you see with big frames and you just get super excited for sure. But I'm hunting most anywhere in the world and I get like curled up fronts, whale's tail and dark horns.

Sorry.

Like it's going down game or. Yeah, I remember.

Yeah, I'm an unders guy, man. I like big unders.

Yeah, Yeah. I mean I remember coming. It was. I was on Idaho hunt and this guy came out, he's you know, getting gas and this, this bull was sitting on the, this four wheeler and it was probably like a 340 bull but just had everything. It just had the big curls, not a huge frame but just like Beautiful bowl. And I was like, dude, that's like a dream archery bull right there. Yeah.

Yeah. I. I want a triple brow. Like, I'm a sucker for triple unders. Like, that's one thing, like, I want so bad. I've only found maybe a handful of sheds that are true triple brow, but to shoot one is, like, the dream.

Yeah, yeah. I'll send you. I'll send you a picture of a bowl. I got, like, triple browse on the. On the shed. So, yeah, that's. I mean, that's a super rare and beautiful.

So do you have any elk hunts this year that are kind of out of the norm or.

I have. I mean, yeah, like, I have. I have an archery tag, Montana archery, and Wyoming rifle. So that's the ones I'm kind of probably most excited about. I mean, yeah, any year I can have a rifle tag and an archery tag and have the ability to hunt. Like, just the possibility to kill a 350 bull. I am living my best life whether I kill anything or not. Like, if I am able to do both hunts and chase 350 bulls, that's all I wanted out of life, even if I never see one.

Yeah. I'm not expecting on any of the tags I have this year to be like, megas. You know, it's possible, but it's slim. So, like, a lot of general season stuff that I'm super excited for. Again, shoot the first.

Which one are you most excited for?

Probably to get redemption in Idaho, because I. And the reason it's exciting is I did not get a tag through the, like, draw system or the online thing. And my buddy just called me the other day. He's like, hey, would you want such and such unit a tag in Idaho for elk? I'm like, how? Like, are you reading my mind? Like, what's going on? So you just so happened to meet someone who had elk tags in this same unit, and they're unit wide, you know, so it's kind of like, it became really exciting because, like, right. Tag. So that's exciting. You know, Utah otc, Utah continues to, like, add what they call the open bull areas. And so, like, not only is it giving you access to more elk around the state, it's diluting the hunters. And so they're spreading out more. Right. So now that there's more area, like, I went on an OTC hunt last year, and I'm like, I didn't even see anybody on my side of the canyon. I thought that was unreal.

That's cool.

I had A pretty fun hunt. Only saw one bull, which I shot, but that's all it took, you know. That's the one I was telling you. I was really sitting on the private.

Yeah, yeah, it just takes one, dude. That's pretty impressive. You only saw one ball and killed it.

That's.

That says a lot.

Yeah, it's kind of like my buddy just happened. Honestly, dude, it was like literally camped out between two camps on the opposite side of the canyon than us, but they couldn't see it. Like, we're just hunting these ginormous canyons and they roll off just enough. And he had seen it there in the night. I'm like, we can go see if it's there in the morning. But like, what are the odds? Like, they usually just don't stick around somewhere like that. First light there he was just standing there. It's like, well, you're dead.

You're dead. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, thanks for coming on, man. I appreciate it. We'll have to do it again another time, but yeah, best of luck this year. What. What do you got going on for film projects? What can people look forward to? And maybe what's the. What's the best elk film we can send them to? We'll. We'll tag it in the show notes to get pumped.

There's. There's one that's on our channel. Like, I think the Fireball is just the Fireball kind of shows that never give up attitude. And so for. If anybody hasn't seen it, that's a pretty good one. But then there is one in Idaho where I killed like a. A big 380 bull with my bow. Unfortunately, the kills. The kill shot wasn't on film. But like, the circumstances, like, that's just an inspiring one to be like, just proof that like anything can happen at any time, you know? But man, we got so many good elk hunts. Like, Casey's video just dropped. Yeah. If. I mean, there's so many elk hunts on the Hush Channel. If anybody hasn't seen the videos, I'd invite anybody to just search Hush or Hush and elk hunt. I mean, we got a library, you know, a huge library to. To go check out. Oh, my late season elkon, the one I was telling you about. I think it's giant late season bull elk hunt like title.

Yeah.

And it just shows the never give up attitude. And that's another hunt where I had multiple people hit me up after the hunt ended. Well, how. How did it end up for you? I'm like, dude, I shot A giant. Last day, two of these guys I met on the mountain. Like, dang, we left a day early. We're getting our butts kicked, man. This is proof that we can't leave. You know, a storm was. Storm was rolling in, so everyone got off probably safe. Better than what we did. But anyways, yeah, the Russian Channel. There's endless amounts this fall. I've got some stuff that's not what I've done. Like black Tail out in Alaska with the Tricer crew pot. Like most likely gonna go hunt moose in Alaska like a drop camp like DIY. It's got to be 50 inches wide or, or something like that to be, you know, leap. So that's a whole new learning curve doing something different. But honestly, a lot of my old haunts are coming back this year. Between the tags I have in Colorado, Idaho and Utah. Just tags I almost get every season and. And those are some of my favorites.

Heck yeah, man. Well, it sounds like you got a good year. Best of luck man. And look forward to see what you produce. I'm sure you're gonna kill a giant, but yeah, good luck.

Let's, let's, let's recap at the end of the year.

Yeah.

And after this podcast goes up, we'll have a new one after the season. Maybe we could even do a mid season one and see where we're at. And yeah, tides has changed or if it's good or bad.

Do a mid season on your Idaho grinder and see how you really feel.

Let's do it. That'll be it. That'll be over in September. So come October, let's find a day where yeah, we can talk about it because by then I'll have well, the Idaho tag and yeah, that'll only be the Idaho for elk anyways at that point to be done.

Nice.

Let's try catch up in October.

I love it. Good luck this year, man.

You too, dude. Thanks for having me.

Alrighty guys. Thanks for tuning into the show. If you like this episode, do us a huge favor and share it with one of your hunting buddies. Also, if you want a free hunt planner, be sure to go check the link in the show notes. It's 100 free. You can download our hunt planning tool which is a great resource for kind of. Of keeping track of all of your hunts, your hunt plans, your points, all those things. Pretty great resource. Go check it out links in the show notes or you can check our website, www.elkhunt201.com.