Finding Success with Limited Entry Tags: Strategies, Tactics, and Mindset

Foreign.

This is the elk hunt podcast. Home to everything elk hunting. I'm your host, Cody rich. From fellow DIYers to elk hunting legends, we have elk hunting stories, tips, tactics and more to get you pumped for elk season. Join us every week for great elk hunting content. Today's episode is brought to you by Tricer Tripods. You need something to put that fancy new maven optics on. Get yourself a Tricer tripod and one of their panheads. Man, Drew, good friend of mine started this Tricer tripod company and his innovation is so crazy, the number of new products he's come out with and is coming out with, hint, hint, wink, wink is amazing. My setup, Tricer ad with a Tricer LP panhead. The LP is, is a sweet panhead. Very lightweight, man don't even know it's there. Super smooth, all that can handle pretty big optics as well. So if you're looking for a very lightweight elk hunting tripod setup, the LP panhead, great little, great little addition. And if you get the, the bino clamp adapter, get it all on there. Great little setup. Check them out@tricer.com, use the code TRO and you'll save yourself 10% off. Get yourself a full setup. If you're looking for a new tripod, great option. Check them out. Today's episode is brought to you by the good folks over at Stone Glacier, the leaders in ultralight hunting gear. And whether you're on a 10 day backcountry sheep hunt or you're covering 10 plus miles a day looking for elk, Stone Glacier's minimalist designs keep the weight down, which pays big dividends when you're covering lots of miles. But it's not just about light packs. Stone Glacier has the full setup now. They have tents, sleeping bags, they have premium clothing. They have everything you need to be a badass ultralight mountain hunter. And one of the benefits is you don't sacrifice the quality and durability with that lightweight gear. So that's what I love about some Glacier. They're light, fast, I like that stuff. And when you need gear, they can handle kind of the toughest conditions in the world and keep you moving, keep dry, keep you cool down is probably the biggest one. Trust Stone Glacier to help you go further and faster and get on the mountain, get off the mountain. Check them out. High performance gear@stoneglacier.com all right, guys, welcome to the show. How we doing?

Doing well.

Good, man.

We were just catching up, man. Before the show. It's been, it's been a hot minute since we hung out, but yeah, it's good to. Good to catch up with you guys.

Good.

Yeah.

Have you.

On the podcast, you're doing an entire series around elk hunting this year. So, like, what's. What's the big push tag or what?

Yeah, man. So we're doing a little elk series on our show PED and just kind of getting back into the thing where archery elk has kind of escaped us over the last couple years. We, Zach and I drew Washington state limited entry tags back to back in 16 and 17. We both harvested our first bulls, branch bulls on those tags, and it was all archery stuff. So we kind of. That's how we met. That's how Peen Weld started was limited entry elk tags in the state of Washington. We met on a forum and then we met in Safeway before, like Tinder and all that stuff. So we were first.

Yeah. The original hunting dating apps. Yeah, yeah.

The original dating app was. Hey, bro, you want to meet in Safeway parking lot and go in the woods for five days?

Sure, dude.

So that's how that happened. And then kind of like peeing wild birth after that.

For.

After meeting Zach and hunting, became hunting buddies for two years in a row. And we. At first we just carried a GoPro around.

What year was that?

1626. Yeah, yeah, I think I remember.

I think you. Dude, I think it was right after you guys got started. We had met. Probably did a podcast at some point along there.

Yep. We did a couple of them and then. Yeah, met in Salt Lake. And I think we met in Salt Lake, like 17 or 18 or something and hung out then. Yeah, it was fun times. But that's the last time we really actually focused on elk. Like, I mean, focused on elk archery. You know, like in between. We've had. We've all had Wyoming. We've. I've been to Idaho. I went to Idaho on a muzzy hunt. You've been to Idaho with a muzzleloader swimming. We've hunted elk, dabbled in there. But we were never really focused on it, like this year. And what brings it up is I drew a super coveted limited entry Utah archery elk tag.

Nice.

Yeah, I got, you know, I've been putting in for 24 years and it was my turn. No, I'm. I'm joking. I drew it too. And everyone.

No way.

Yeah. Just literally hit the lottery.

I literally got the. The golden ticket for, you know, I got a fun coupon and I'm gonna go cash it in.

Yeah.

Yeah. I got super Lucky Drew a. Drew a. Like a 21.2 points. I'm one of nine and just kind of been diving back into it. So it's so. It's so interesting and so fun. Like, kind of going back into the archery world. And, you know, we've been hunting elk and during the rut and stuff, and last year we. We got it with Bob's tag in Wyoming. We got into them and got. Did the whole elk thing, but never really, like, haven't focused on it. Where I've gone to this extent where I'm just nerding out on it, and it's really fun, you know, like, didn't really archery hunt much after 20, 21. I killed a nice buck with my bow in the, like, high country spot and stock type of thing and then just kind of went to the rifle direction and just. Yeah, had fun doing rifle stuff, but now it's diving back into archery, you know, and I'm. I'm stuck in the broadhead world right now. Like, what do I go with? Mechanical fixed. Like, that's a dirty road. Holy cow. That's just gotten.

Well, and you're so easily influenced.

I am.

Like, yeah, he talks to, like, a mechanical guy, and he'll be like. In the group chat, like, guys, I'm going mechanical.

And then he'll talk to, like, a.

Fix blade guy, and he's like, you know, screw those mechanicals, man. I'm saying fixed blade.

He can't.

He can't make up his mind at all.

That's so true. Like, I. I'll. I talked to trail Kreitzer and. And, you know, he's the total mechanical guy. And then I'm like, all right, they're in my cart. Next day, I'm on with Dan state and elk shape. And he's like, dude, iron will fixed all the way. And I'm like, all right, they're in my cart. I just deleted. Like, I just can't make up my mind, you know? And it all comes back to dude. Like, 300 years ago, natives were killing stuff with sharp sticks, so I don't think it matters.

Yeah, but how many did they lose?

Hey, he's got a good. He's got a good point.

Yeah, I'll. I'll be the happy medium between Dan and trail because, like, I will carry two fixed blades and probably four mechanicals, and, like, they're situational dependent to me, so it's like, you know, everyone's like, oh, this or that. I'm like, why can't it just be Hand, you know, and I, this started on my blacktail sika blacktail hunt and on Kodiak and you know, I think I'm going back this year to hunt black tails and do the same thing. It was like I ended up killing one buck with one and one with the other because it was like I was rattled in this buck and it was super brushy and it's like, yeah, grab the arrow with a fixed blade. Like we're shooting through brush. It was 18 yard frontal boom. Dead right there, dead. And then here comes a buck and he's like no idea exists but he's going to walk by. I thought he was going to walk by like 50. So of course I grabbed the sever, right. And he ended up being like 34 yards broadside. No idea I was there and it was like perfect situation. But even elk, it's like if I'm calling elk and it's going to be tight. Yeah. I'll go a fixed blade, right. Hit that iron will and then if, you know I'm putting a stock on and it's going to be like a 65 yard shot. Yeah, we'll go put in the server or something like that.

Yeah, Bob just got here. We just let Bob in. Jeff talked to somebody else that ran kind of a similar system where he did. I think he said two or three mechanicals and those are like his like you know, num 1, 2 and 3. And then he had like the fixed blade as well in his quiver just in case, you know.

So.

So yeah, it was just kind of a, like you said, like situational whereas. And I kind of like that thinking especially for elk, like for deer, I think, you know, mechanical can be kind of safe to, to do all, all the time and for those long follow up shots or anything like that. But for an elk, having the choice would be nice.

Yeah, I, I totally agree and I think I'm, I'm probably going to do something similar is, is carry a couple iron wills like Dan suggested and then maybe carry a couple of the beast or something or the severs, the, the titaniums and, and kind of play it by ear there, see what I'm feeling, see if it's a nice clear shot at 45 yards, send a mechanical. If it's a frontal and it's all I have at 20, there's a little tree branch. I'm gonna punch him with an iron will or something. You never know. Yeah.

And you gotta, you like shooting and what your bow likes shooting.

100% man. Yeah.

And I think it also, I mean, boils down to confidence. Like, if you have confidence and like, oh, man, I got something for each situation, then. Then you're gonna be successful. I. I don't think you can go wrong either way. I'm not like an anti either, man. A lot of. Lot of people who've killed a lot of animals use mechanicals. And like, honestly, the. You know, the confidence I have in a mechanical is like, great. It's super high, right? Like, I just know anything under 65 yards is freaking dead. Like, that thing is shoots darts and you're shooting ever as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm shooting a sever. Oh, I think they're 1 1/2 titaniums. Is the. With the bleeder. I do like the bleeder. They're super accurate. So anyway. Yeah, that's what I like.

Yeah.

Didn't they.

I think I just saw like yesterday that they're coming out with like a. A 175 and a 2 inch now in the sever.

Yeah, they're doing a bunch of stuff. And then Bomar just did the Titanium Beasts and I. Jeff. Or not Jeff, but John Lusp just did that review and that turned out. Bob, you're making tons of noise over there. That mic's hot, bro.

You know, and I think, like, they're all like, the beast. Beasts are really cool.

Like, it's ar, man.

Yeah, I like. I mean, it seems to be a cool design that, like, I like the pivot style.

Yeah.

I've had guys say, you know, they had problems with sever. I still haven't had any problems with severe. They're good. I mean, like, a lot of people shoot the rage. A lot of really good hunters still shoot a rage. So, I mean, that's a. They're all deadly. Alrighty, guys, Quick interruption to tell you that we got another giveaway going on before season this month. We're giving away a stone Glacier Sky Archer 6400. It's the pack I'm going to be using and we're giving away a pair of Schnees Timberline boots. So if you want to get entered to win, head over to the website, get your name in the hat, or sign up for the elk hunt course and get free five bonus entries. All right. Enjoy the episode.

Yeah, and I think that's. That's exactly what like, trail was saying, too. It's a moot point. If you hit a bull or hit an animal where you want to hit them, it's going to die. It's just that cheap. What's what's going to perform best? And it's all. It's just kind of a rabbit hole that's unnecessary to go down. But it is, on one hand, kind of fun to. To go down the rabbit hole, and you want to go into the, you know, the mountains with the best gear that you think is going to perform the best and, like, least chance of failure or whatever that is. And I think in 2025, mechanicals are just fine, and a ton of people use them, and they perform amazing. Dan has one story from last year in Montana where it just didn't perform, and that's what scares him. And he's like, all right, I'm never doing it again. Go and fix. Interesting work. Yeah.

The funny thing is, I can make the argument that, like, I've had fixed blades, and here's the problem with fixed blades. They're great. And, like, so I've killed a lot of animals with a kudu, and the kudu points. And, you know, like, a kudu can shoot really good, but every once in a while, like, you're just like, what the was that? Like, yeah, like a foot and a half. Right. And, you know, and the other thing that makes me a little bit nervous is, you know, we beat the hell out of the bow all season, and for the most part, you're fine. Right. Until you're not. And it's really hard to keep a bow. If a bow is perfectly tuned and everything is perfect, then, yes, a good iron will will shoot just as good as a fuel point.

Yeah.

But it's not like. Like, you can't, like, predict the whole, like, using it as a shield through the brush and things like that. And, like. Like, the slightest little tweak can make massive impacts. And, like, those are amplified when you go to that. And so, like, again, I think they're great if, you know, you want to shoot 30 yard, like, at 30 yards is probably not gonna make a difference.

Yeah.

But 40 yards is starting to, like, oh, you could miss a foot. Right. For sure.

It's so crazy you say. That last podcast I did that just released Hunter, he was walking. He had this tag, my fish lake tag. In 2023, he was walking back to the truck in a crazy storm, was on top of a log, fell off the log, dropped his bow, like, threw his bow string, fell off both cams. It was totally like, he's like, I'm six hours from home, you know, go through the whole thing, gets back to the truck in the headlights in the storm, puts his string back on with A ratchet strap. Nice. The next morning, he said he, like, shot in the headlights, you know, like a thousand arrows or something. The next morning, he shot his bullet 40 yards and just pinwheeled it, like, what? You're so lucky, man. The truck, he's like, probably wasn't safe, but he was, like, ratchet. Strapping the cams down so he could get his string back on.

That's wild.

In the stress you would feel.

Oh, God, yeah.

Freaking out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We'll bring my bow as a backup because we're the same size.

Exactly. Yeah, just keep. Keep one. That's what he says. Like, the nearest pro shop is hours away, you know, and they're not open on Sundays or Mondays maybe. And then, like, you would just be up creek.

Yeah, I. I had that. I was in Idaho circa 2014. Somewhere in there, and, like, getting this draw. Bull's coming, screaming. He's working his way down. It's, like, pretty wide open, but, like, we're in, like, this tight little drainage, and this bull's coming. I can hear cows coming. I hear bulls coming. I'm like, it's kind of a tight little window with this, like, brush, right? So I'm like, I want to see if I can draw back right here. And I draw back, and my string catches, like, a limb or something and just boink. Like, the whole string comes off, and the bull, like, rips a bugle at, like, a hundred yards. I like, look down at my string, and I'm like, God damn it. And I just, like, turned around and walked away. I was like, he's just screaming the whole time like, dude, I mean, probably wouldn't worked out, whatever. But it was, like, in my head, I was like, man, this bull's about just boink off. And I was like, ah. I had to drive all the way to Boise. I drive to Boise, I get there super late, and I, like, wake up in the parking lot, and they're like, oh, this string is pretty tired. Let's put a new one on. I was like, nope, that's not happening. Just put this one back on.

Oh, my God.

That's crazy.

But, yeah, that's. That happens. Hunting.

Yeah. I've heard stories of guys, like, you know, that are backpacked in and had, like, a mouse, like, chew their D loop. Chew their string. Yeah.

In Colorado, like, a little mouse chewed through his D loop and. Yeah, yeah, just. If you're not a bowtech, you ain't gonna fix that stuff.

No.

Yeah. I mean, like. And then, like, you'll prepare for that moment and never have it again in your lifetime. Like, probably packs a D loop with him and he'll never have a problem with the D loop ever again.

Exactly. Yeah. He's that guy too. I'll pack for the worst.

Yeah.

Yeah. So what's like, what so far when you think about your strategies in elk hunter and, like, maybe some of the stuff that you've got, like, just in talking to people about this hunt and whatnot, like, what do you feel like your go to strategy is going to?

I think we're just gonna be stubborn as a mule and, like, just take no for an answer, basically, is what I'm hearing. Especially no for an answer. Yeah. Yeah.

We're just gonna take no for an answer, and we're gonna pack it up and head home.

We're not even gonna go.

Not take no for an answer.

We're just gonna save money on that one. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think one of the biggest thing is just cover tons of tons and tons of country and just look over bowls. I need to just calm down is my biggest thing. You know, like, going into. I'm trying to go into this with a really open, clear mind of, like, limited stress, which is very difficult for me because I know how special this tag is and what the opportunities, what the possibilities could be. Right. Like, I just got off the phone with Hunter today, and he just spent five days in the unit and said he saw a dozen over 350. And it's like, at first he was like, hey, a 330 dies on day one when I talk to him. And now he's like, okay, maybe it's 340, 350 now. And I'm like, oh, dude, I'm gonna shoot a 290 on day one. What are you talking about? So I just. I just. I'm trying to go into it with a mindset of go have fun, like, limited stress, and just. I want to go down there and. And call in a bowl and just get it over with and pass on him, and so I can just freaking breathe and, like, okay, we can do it. We still know what we're talking about. We still know what we're doing.

Really hoping, like, a little three or four point, like, Raghorn comes in first.

Yes, yes, yes. I don't want, like, a 310 on the first day because I'm shooting it.

To us.

That would look like a giant. Yes, like a 310 to us. Like, we might look at that and go, oh, my God, it's a 340. You know, like, don't. Like, hopefully we can glass some from like distance.

Yeah.

And like actually kind of be able to look over some bowls first before, like, you know, like our tags that we had experience with, it's all really like heavy timber stuff. So you didn't know what was coming in until it was in your lap. You know, you didn't really get that chance to look it over.

Yeah.

And hopefully a lot of this country, and it kind of looks that way is there is a lot of open country that we can hopefully glass them up in first and then go after them. And so that's my hope as like the camera guy caller and knowing how he is going to react is. That's my hope is to see them from a distance and be like, okay, that's a bull worth going after. Or hey, that's like a. A five point. Like we can like let that one walk away.

Yeah. One of the biggest things that still rings with me, Cody, is like, you're at bats. I just want to go get a couple of them and like, just get it under my belt and I could just relax. Like, okay, we called in, we passed him up. Now let's. Let's find one that makes us happy. Right. Like, I don't wanna. I don't want to go down there and stress out and then have, you know, miss an opportunity because we fell off. Like the wheels fell off on a layup. Right. Like that. I don't. I want to go down there and get some at bats and get some reps in and just hunt elk, have fun and be able to capitalize when the time comes, when it's the right bowl. Right. I don't want to be a complete show yard sale and then, you know, it's a, you know, a bull I'm not happy with, you know, something like that. So I think the biggest tactic that we're. I'm trying to tell myself is just change the. The mindset is the tactic. Right. Go down there with limited stress. My dad's gonna come down. It's the first time ever hunting on a hunt like this with him, other than like our growing up deer camp with all the uncles and stuff. So that'll be fun. And just kind of looking at it from a holistic perspective of like, just go have fun. It's a fun couple and it's a, It's a limited entry area where you should just have a better chance.

Well, kind of like we were talking about before is like, yeah, it's like this super limited Entry tag. And it's like a 20 year tag for most people, but because you drew it with only two, it's like, it's a true lotto ticket.

It is.

So you might as well like, that stress of, like, I have 20 years of points dumped into this as well.

Yeah.

Like, that part of it's taken off. And so I think that that should kind of help, like, take some of the burden off of, like, the shoulders and like, the stress of being like, okay, I just used up 20 years of waiting and money and applying and all this stuff. Whereas, like, dude, I just got lucky. Like, screw it.

Let's.

Let's go for a home run. Yeah, well.

And something that off of that. It was your bull tag a couple years ago. Like, it just ate you up. It just wasn't what we were expecting. And you dumped 19 points.

Yeah, it was terrible.

And it was just absolute. Like, you didn't even draw your boat. You drew your bow once.

I didn't draw my boat.

You never drew your bow, so. And that was 19 points in the state of Washington. So you're going in there with such high expectations, right. Knowing that, hey, I just dumped 20 years of points, and it was an absolute horrible hunt, which was. That's Washington is just Washington. But as you say, you know, like, I saw. I was with him the whole time, and I could see, like, how mentally, like, you try not to think about it. You try to have fun, you try to live in the moment, but when you have that, like, well, it sucks.

It just.

Yeah, yeah. And you're blame. You're just like, oh, my God, I can't go home because this was 20 years. You know, it's just one of the. So that definitely makes a difference that.

Like, outside of, like, Jeff, outside of killing a bull, like, what, like, what are the three things you want to get out of it? Like, and speak honestly. Like, I know everyone's like, I just don't have good experience. But, like, what are, like, the three things you want? Like, if you're really honest.

If I'm really honest, I want to just go experience elk hunting. Like, I've never experienced it before. Like, I. I want to just go see an experience and live in the, like, Eastman's TV show that, you know, we all grew up watching, right? Like, just googling bulls, screaming aspens. And I've never hunted in the Aspen. Like, you know, I've never done that. I've never been into a, like, a pretty air. Like, Zach said that in the beginning. Like, we hunted, like, The PCT in Washington. So if you know that country, it's. You can't see 30 yards when you're in the timber. You can't see 10 in some spots. And then just like Google searching and, and seeing the pictures of the fish lake, it's like this is the dream come true hunt. It's like the largest living aspen grove in North America.

It's.

It's in some crazy beautiful country. It's. I realistically just want to go experience elk hunting. Like, I've never experienced it in my life, you know, and I think that's good.

Like, and I think the cons, the con consolidation prize, if you will, is like killing a bull. Right? Like, and I think it's that I always say if you get to go on those hunts, it's. It's about getting at bats, you know, it's like, man, you're going to get 10 years worth of elk experience in one year. Totally. Now, maybe not. Like, don't. Like, if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. Right. Like, I've seen a lot of these hunts that like, there's still a struggle fest. Right. Like, don't first, don't assume it's going to be easy or fun. Yes. And so like, I mean, like, you guys should have a great experience. What's like when you think on it and you're like, and you look at it as if you were after the fact, you say, oh man, I look at this, I was like, man, we did this hunt and I killed this X Bowl 310 bull. Would you like, how would you feel about it? Would you do like, does instantly you feel like, you know, that's not like, where's the number for you?

You know, like on. Honestly, like, obviously I want to go down and shoot a 360 and just, you know, have full body mounted in my bedroom and kick the wife out of there? No, this is his room now. Right? Like, that's. If I'm speaking honestly, of course I want to go down and shoot a 370 bull and just like Fry and his horns for the next.

God, it already jumped up 10 inches.

You know, of course we all want that. Right? But I, my biggest bull, I don't even know what he is, is that 2016 bull. And he's probably 260s to 270s. So if I came back after 15 days of hunting and me and Zach had an amazing trip and we document an amazing adventure and I shoot a 305 bull, I honest to God will be tickled pink about it.

You know, the. The thing to think about.

I don't want to, like, put my.

Foot in my mouth here, but I do. You know, like, to me, I've always been able to pass bulls because I didn't want it to end. And so it's like, if you look at it, it's like, man, I hope. I hope we get, like, 30 call ins or 20 call ins. It could be such an epic year.

Yeah.

If I got to call in 20 bulls or 30 bulls, whatever it is. Right. And, like, just focus on that. And then, like, whatever happens, you know, and just tell yourself, like, when the moment's right, the moment's right. Don't worry about passing because you're gonna miss out on a bunch of opportunities if you are worried about filling your tag, and I don't think you are, but I think for everyone else, it's like, you get so worried about filling that tag, and, like, is this big enough or my friend's gonna think it's as good or, like, whatever. Like, all people. People would say they don't, but they do. And I think if you're just like, man, I want to go have a great experience and call in as many bulls a week. How many bulls can we call in? That would be like. That would be an epic year.

Yeah.

Instead of, like, what we kill and then. And then, man, if it just feels right and it's like, the one, then. Then make it happen. Right. But just know you're kind of ending. It's. It's really. It's almost hard to. For me to shoot one on that scenario because it's like, dude, how many times you get to hunt this place? Like, how many times you get a hunt? Jurassic Park? And, yeah, like, when I let go of that arrow, it's done. I don't know. Just having that mentality around it is, I think, is really good.

No, and I think that's exactly where our head's at, too, is like, we. We want to go down and experience elk hunting that we may never experience again.

Right.

Like, so that. That's been our. Our top. Like, our hope is to go down and. And have 20 call INS and pass on bulls and just be in the woods when the aspens are changing colors and there's bugling everywhere and you're just getting into them. Like, that's. That's. That's what we want to get into. And. And it sounds like this really is one of those places to get into a hunt, like a rut fest. Like, that. I'VE talked to Ryan Carter down there, like, this is like Boulder, right? Is his units and in those surroundings, mine is one, one unit north of the Boulder and it's all completely different aspen grove country. And he says that on like Jay Scott's podcast multiple times over the years is Jay Scott asked him, what is the, the funnest hunt down there in your beat? And he'll say, the funnest is fish Lake. Your best chance at a bowl on a giant bowl is the Boulder San Juan's beaver, something like that. Right. So, yeah, for them just to say that and just be like, hey, the, the rut is amazing. It's one of the highest populations of elk in Utah. The elk herds in Utah, it's gorgeous country. The bull to cow ratio is absurd. You know, there it's, it's got the fixings for just an amazing rut. And that's truly what we want to go experience because we have such limited experience with that.

Yeah, that's super interesting. So what questions or how can I help? How can I, like, can you work through some tactics or something like, along those lines?

Yeah. So one of the couple of questions that we ask on the series that we're doing on our show is, is do you have a different mindset from limited entry to otc? Do you go in? We kind of been talking about mindsets and stuff throughout the show, but do you, do you change your mindset from limited entry to otc?

Really good question. I haven't really thought about it a lot. I would say generally, no. But my mindset's going to be different than most people's. So I'm trying to like, how should my mindset be if I was in your shoes versus how it will be in my shoes? So, yeah, and I'll kind of answer them both ways. So for me, it's always, I don't even go to a unit unless I, you know, I'm like, okay, there's a good chance to sell a big bowl. Like, I enjoy finding big bulls. I love being in elk action. But like, at the end of the day, I like finding big bowls.

Sure.

And you can do that on a lot of over the counter. So I don't think it really changes. The only thing that changes for me is like, I know if it's an OTC or a hard grinder hunt. Like, I, I'm kind of mentally preparing myself for that grind. Going back to Zach's hunt where it's like, I mean, not what you expected. Right. But like, I gotta, I gotta Put myself in the mindset of, like, oh, this is gonna be a grind, and I just gotta grind it out. And, like, I gotta work hard, which I don't think is a bad thing to have even on limited entry, because I do think a lot of you people fall into your, like, your shoes right now where you're just like, on cloud nine. You're like, this is going to be epic, and it's going to be so easy. And then you get down there and the reality is very different than you thought. And so, like, that. I think it kicks people harder. It's almost like if you were going to Arizona on some really crappy hunt, one of the, what they call the unlimited, like, you know, or, you know, it's going to be a difficult hunt. So you go into it with a different mentality. And then like, the guys who go into this tag and, or, you know, say a limited injury, Utah tag, and they think it's going to be that way. It's almost harder.

Right.

So my mentality doesn't change a lot. I do say maybe I, like, get. I, you know, warm the old mental toughness up a little bit more, but other than that, no, like, not really. I don't think my tactics really change. Like, you know, a lot of it. Just grind it, grinding it out a little bit more.

Yeah. Like, so when you know that there's a limited amount of people in a unit, I think this is another way to kind of ask the question if, if you know that there's not 2, 000 people in a unit, but there's only 80.

Yeah.

Tactics change during the rut, Would you be a little bit more slower or are you going to be aggressive? Aggressive. Aggressive, like knowing that there's only a handful of people in your unit, do you change anything?

So you know my, my tactic on this. Say, say hypothetically, you. You were a super nice guy. You just handed me this tag. Yeah. My, my, my techni is so different than yours because I'm still. I'm looking for the top 1% in the unit.

Right.

And that's just like, what I'm gonna have fun doing. And I'm. I'm gonna do the opposite. I don't want to go calling a bunch of bulls because I know I'm gonna make a bad decision somewhere along the way. And, like, you know, you're gonna have a rushed decision. Some places I may have to, like, go call in bulls to see what they are, but for the most part, I probably would just try to, like, locate. I'm going to spend more time locating the. The right bowl.

Right.

And I'm going to do that from a distance. I'm going to do that where I'm safe from myself, where it's like, I'm not going to pull the trigger, which is like just a different experience that I'm going for.

Totally, man.

Yeah. You know, and like, I spent a lot of years doing the thing you're about to do, and it's super fun, right? Like, not trying to, like, be. Well, they're just like, this is how I.

We're in different. We're in different journeys right now. Like, I've killed two elk in my life. Like, you're. You're in double digits, you know, like, so I'm in a different place in my elk hunting than you are. So it makes sense that we would have different tactics and different, like, hopes and dreams out of this tag.

But I don't think I would change, like, if I was in your shoes. So I put your shoes on for a minute and I say, like, okay, how would I approach this? Would I be super aggressive? I think so. I would still. I would still try to not get in the kitchen too soon. I would want to try to still figure things out. And I think that's a mistake maybe a lot of people would make going into that hunt. And I would love Ryan's opinion on this because I feel like he knows the unit better than I do. But, you know, I would say, like, I kind of want to figure some stuff out before I just go in there and be like, let's call in every elk. Because, like, you could spend four or five days easily just calling an elk and you're not really in the right zone.

Right.

Like, even in a great unit like that, you're going to have zones where some big boys are hanging out and some, you know, some. Some aren't, or just like the age class is different. Like, whatever it may be. So I'm still going to approach it is like, hey, let's get like a 30,000 foot view or even a 10,000 foot view. Like, hey, what's. Where's the pockets at? Where's the good bulls at? Where historically these, you know, are the big bulls hanging out and where's all the action? Right? I think it's easy to assume this is going to be an easy hunt. And he's like, let's just take every road and call and, and see what comes in, you know, and it's like, you could spend a little too much time doing that versus trying to figure out, you know, the 30,000 foot view first and figuring out where the pockets are. So I think like that had one piece of advice is like how I would do it versus how most would do it. It's like trying to, trying to find the big bulls is not a bad thing. If you're not really looking for the big balls, it's still like how do you find the right pockets? Because you could be in a part of the unit that maybe has elk but just the ruts not popping off or like it's still just a weird dynamic. You know, there's a lot of factors that could go into it. So I'm still going to try to like almost figure the entire unit out for a day or two or just like learn what I can. Yeah. And that goes into a lot of the questions I'm going to ask maybe to Ryan or like people who know the unit like have a history there of like, hey, where's like historically the good areas. And the nice thing about those tags is like you can usually call the previous tag owners and be like, hey, where was like the really good action? Where was like where was their action? But not the right action. And that's probably hard for some people to like wrap their head around. But like there's definitely parts of that unit, I'm sure that have just a bunch of, you know, two year olds running around or whatever. And so like, and then there's an area, it's like, man, there's a. There's some really good rudd action over here when I was there. It's just good intel for you.

No, 100%. And that's exactly the, the type of stuff that we were getting from people. I've talked to Zach Bohe, he had the tag. McGuire, he had the tag. And then we've had trail and Dan on and it's all kind of the. Everyone's kind of on the same trail, but someone's got. This is a different tactic that we have never done is like the midnight traveling listen for bugles, marking them on. On maps and stuff. Is that something that you would do like when you're trying to learn a unit? Is that one of your tactics?

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. When I'm trying to figure it out for sure early and you know, not you mentioned. I think it's. Yeah. Because Zach had the tag and then I actually sent one of my listeners in there for the spike hunt and he went to, you know, kind of the area I think that Zach was at.

Yeah.

And it was kind of, like, it was funny, because this is exactly what I'm talking about. He went to this spot, and I could be wrong on the details, but the principle is the same. He went into the same spot. So Zach had nothing but rutfest. He goes in there, and it's like, there's elk there, and enough to, like, keep you curious. But, like, there just wasn't rut action. The wind was funky and, like, they just never really like any. So he spent five or six days, I want to say, like, trying to hunt these elk that were not very huntable and in retrospect, should have just bailed out of there and found new elk.

Right.

But it's like, yeah, you know, oh, this is where. I know other people have killed big bulls. Like, there's got to be a lot of elk here. But it just wasn't the pocket in the unit. Right. And that's, you know, that's the thing is it's kind of a big unit. Like, there's multiple pieces to it. So, again, like, I'm going to try to cover a lot of ground. Back to your point, like, yeah, I'm just cover ground at night, day, glass, everything, and pulling all the stops out to try to figure out what part of the unit's good.

Yeah, that's. I mean, that's the. That's the mindset we're looking for. Cover ground. Just be aggressive and. And you think you would be. If you were in my shoes, you would. You would be aggressive kind of early on.

Totally. Totally. I'm going to try to, like, hey, I'm trying to find the herds, and I'm going to try to get in tight with the herds. That's kind of the nutshell. What you will find, though, is, like, hunting in very high bull to cow ratios can be fairly hard because what you have is, like, you have a pile of satellites that make a lot of noise. And then, like, it's. It. It's just a weird. Like, they don't come in, they don't like, whatever. They just kind of make a lot of noise. At least it's my experience in units that have very high bull to cow ratios, and they can be pretty aggressive. Like, in the peak rut, for sure. Like, those cow calls work. They'll drag them in. But I've also found it's like, I'll find entire drainages where it's like, it feels like there's 10 bulls in here and not a single cow. Like, I don't think that's unrealistic. And then you're like man, where the heck is the herd at? It's like it's not there somewhere else. This is just a. And you know the Utah stuff especially early, right. Like you'll have like an entire drainage. It's like 10 satellites in there. No, no elk. No. No cows.

Yeah. Well, I hope one of those satellites is 310 because these.

Fair enough. It's funny because like so I hunted a place in Oregon and it was just like this. It was like, you know, this is where I kind of got. Got on this phone. Just piles of bowls and they would bugle at you, but they would just like always be moving away or like never come in. It was like, man, I would chase these. There was one can in particular. I spent probably a week chasing these bulls around. Gosh. They'd answer the answer you every time you called, but they would never come close. And like, and if you try to get too close, like they just kind of move off. There's like this weird dynamic and I was just like spending days wasting in this like canyon with no elk or no cow elk on it.

Yeah, what, what is the, what is the tactic if we do get into a situation where it's there? It same kind of situation you're talking about. Just a canyon full of bachelor bulls. Or I guess they wouldn't be bachelor at that point. But just leave. Yeah, yeah, leave. Find a different drainage.

And that's the thing is like sometimes you have to leave elk to find out. And that's super difficult thing. And a lot of people, you know, they get in there like dude, there's 10 bulls in there, like five bulls, whatever it is in this canyon. Like we, we gotta, you know, gotta hunt it. Like we're in. And it's like, it's just, it's just not the thing. I don't know like how you like really pace it. I would spend a couple days but if I, if I started to notice like nothing I call to comes in and they all seem to be like pretty standoffish. And they're all just kind of answering each other. I'm like where, where's the cows? And this is the thing is like once I find the cows and this is why I'm a huge believer in like hunting those spike tags. Cuz all you gotta do is find the cows, dog that herd, like get, get on that herd. Cause that's where everyone else is following too. And so sometimes you can have pockets of elk that aren't really rutting. Um, you know, they can be Pre rut or they're answering you and things like that. But there just doesn't seem to, like, be responsive in a way that's like, actually coming or, you know, that bugle fest you really want. So it's like, oh, go find the cows. And maybe it's like just glass, you know, get up, see, take a look, see, see what you see. But sometimes in, like, place where you're going, it's, you know, thicker, thicker areas. You don't always get to see everything. And so, like, find the rut action. Find the rut action is a huge piece of advice. It's like, oh, we're hearing bugles, but does that mean we're in the rut action? So, like, make sure we're in the red action. And that's leads to, like, what you want to do. You want to call l. You want to, like, get at bats. Like, you want to have the rut fest and bull screaming in your face and shooting three, ten bulls at ten yards, like, that's. That's the way, you know, so make sure you're in the right spot for that.

And I think that's what we're. We're looking for. We've never, like your. Your hunt, Zach. I'm pointing to Zach from people that can't see us, obviously. Zach's hunt. In 2017, we finally experienced, like, what I would say, like a rut fest on that hill. When we crossed over and got under your bowl, there was six or seven bulls going crazy. Bulls running all over around us, cows running all around us. And then we ended up dogging that bul. You shot that bull. But that was like our first and maybe, maybe last year in Wyoming, when a Little Bob had attacked, we. We got into kind of that situation. Every other time. It's just been, we're here in bugles, like, like that's not really in the rut action. Like, we've, you know, a handful of times and. And I think that's what I would take away from our two hunts, too, is we didn't really experience that. Like, we didn't really get the big rut action. Screaming bulls, hearing the fighting. We never heard any of that. We never saw any of that, you know, So I think that's something that might be mistaken for being in the action when you're just hearing bugles rocking up a hill or, you know, a cliff safes, like, you're not in them. Like, you're. You're far from them.

You're. You're in the canyon. But you're not, like, in them.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And a good way to test that is, you know, like, let's just say, hypothetically, we're out there, and we hear a couple bugles in a canyon, and then it's like, you know, it's a little bit soft. It's definitely not crazy rut, but, like, hey, let's make a mental note and either come back tonight and check and. Or, like, come back in a few days and just see if things have elevated. It's like, you got a pocket elk. But it's hard. Like, maybe there's just not a hot cow. Maybe it's, you know, hard to say, but maybe there's only six cows in there, and. And there's a couple bowls, but nothing's hot. So it's just a pretty dead canyon, right? So, like, let's go find something else today. Come back at night. Sometimes at night, you can really. It'll really pipe off, right? Like, you're like, oh, man, there's. They're going crazy down there. That's a good time to, like, you know, tell the difference versus, you know, midday.

It's hard to say, is there anything that you do, like, when you're going to a new unit, a new place, and, like, just diving in head first, Is there anything that you do? Do you have, like, a checklist of things that you do religiously and when you go step foot into a new unit?

I mean, a little bit, yeah. Like, one of the things is, like, I'm gonna check almost every road I can. Ideally, this is, like, scouting before I get there, so I'm assuming you guys are gonna scout before, but it's like, learn the roads, learn where things are.

And.

And there's so much minor detail I pick up from that, which is like, oh, this road has 42 campsites on it. Like, I know where this goes, and, like, that's. That's, you know, mental note, right? And then, like, where can't I get where, you know? And so, like, all e. Scout the crap out of it, and I'm trying to figure out, you know, where the little pockets are that I may think that a great elk spot will be. But mostly the first day is like, I want to see everything. I want to see where the traffic is. I want to see where the, you know, the camps are. I want to see what roads get used, what roads don't like all of that. And so for me, it's like, I want to figure out the unit, and a little bit of it is, like, kind of checking the areas I guessed and, you know, guessed on e. Scouting was like, okay, are these good? Like, what do I like again? Like, checking the. The knobs. Like, what, what glassy knobs? Can I see from which ones? I can't sometimes that, you know, is not applicable. But, like, for the most part, I'm like, I just want to. Again, I'm like, starting at 30,000 foot, I want to see everything and then, like, might pan in a little bit and work my way into 10,000 Foot. And it's like, okay. These two pockets, I think are going to be good. And a lot of that can be done preseason. Sometimes if you just get there, you're gonna. You're gonna learn a lot more too, though. Like, you show up. I'm. Let's just say you show up a couple days before season or a week before season, you know, you're gonna start to see the camps roll in where the pressure is and those things. It's not gonna. Like, again, it's not gonna matter to you much, you and eight of your friends. Right. So it's a little bit easier. It's not gonna matter so much. But I, you know, I. I definitely think that the whole unit isn't going to be fire. So just know that and be like, is there a better. Like, is there better pockets? Is there better action somewhere else? And just trying to make sure you're not in kind of decent elk versus great oak hunting.

Yeah. Where.

Where do you.

Where are your. Where are your thoughts on moon phases?

I don't care.

Regards to the. In regards to the rut. Don't care.

I know they happen. I know that. No, like, for the most part, like, I mean, you're gonna hunt every. Like, are you. Like, which. How long are you going for?

I'm going from the 7th through the 17th.

Okay. So you got 10 days.

Excuse me. Excuse me. Fifth. The full moon is the damaging. Yeah, full moon is. I had the full moon on my mind. I'm going the 5th through the 17th. Dude.

It's great dates. I don't really care. Like, I, I really don't pay attention to it, mainly because I hunt most of the season anyway, and it just lines out where it lines out.

Yeah.

You know, sometimes it's like, you know, there's a lot more action at night. You know, sometimes, you know, like that waning moon, maybe they're a little bit quieter. I. I just don't care. Like, I. I think it's like the one overrated thing to me. It's like, I'm gonna hunt all the time. It doesn't really matter. I'm, it's not like I'm gonna not hunt because it's a full moon.

Totally. And, and that's, that's where we're at as well. But some, some people have ideas and tactics that'll change on full moons and, and that kind of thing. So just, it's just always fun to hear people different opinions on it.

Yeah. I mean the full moon thing is like, I mean the general answer is, is like on a full moon, generally speaking, they're less active during the day. Maybe like depends on the rut. Depends on if a cow's in heat or not. Like there's a lot of factors, like outside of just the moon, generally speaking.

Yes.

You're gonna get a little bit less action during the day. Yeah. Throw a hot cow in the mix. I don't think it matters.

Totally. Yeah. And, and that's kind of, I think it can change too. On how early it is, is what I'm kind of gathering. If like the, the full moon is on a seventh this year. If you had a full moon on the 17, 18, I bet you that that matters way less, I would imagine. Right. If 17, 18, everything's going bonkers. You think it should just be crazy. Lots of cows are going in. If it's a full moon on the 7th, it might be a pretty quiet day on the 7th, you know, like afternoon or, or the 8th or something like that. But in, in, in my unit, it might be crazy because they're not getting hunted. I don't know.

I'm kind of with Cody with like. I think that's the most overblown, overrated question. Yeah. Like who? We can't control the moon, so who cares?

Like we're hunting.

Hunting regardless. So like and it, I mean there's so many factors, like, okay, is it cloudy or is it not or is it this? Or like I would think that a super, super hot day matters more than the full moon regardless, you know.

So like I just one with our very limited experience too, like I, my bull, I killed him on the night leading up to the full moon and he was going crazy from 3 o' clock in the afternoon until we killed him. Like right before dark. He was just non bug and Bugle came in pissing himself and shot him at 12 yards. Like he was just going bananas. And that was the night leading up to a full moon. So our limited experience is like throw that out the window because I don't think they care.

Yeah, I mean I've had it all. You know, the nice thing about a full moon is, like, they're pretty active at night. So it's like the flip side, right? Like, yeah, there's, there's pros and cons to everything. Like, you, you get a full moon, and those elk are pretty active at night. So it's like, honestly, I'd rather have a full night of activity than a full day of activity in a lot of ways. Like, I, if I'm in the finding elk phase, like, to me, it's like, oh, man, I can, we can just go all night and find these elk.

Yeah, it's early in our hunt when we get there, so that might be a really good tactic to just expect to do is I get there on the, on the morning of the 6th. If I'm leaving September 5th, I'll be there the morning of the 6th. You know, we could just put that in our tactics is the 6th and the 7th. We're just going to be traveling. Go, go back to camp, you know, at dark, you know, get a dinner and then just go out and travel during the night and just start dropping pins where we're hearing bugles and CNL or hearing elk and that kind of thing. And then hopefully when that starts weaning off, then, you know, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 are just starting to heat up and we have an idea of where the elk are.

Yeah. And with that early dates and with the moon phase, I would say here's a likely scenario that you maybe didn't plan for because, you know, you're thinking all this crazy rut. But September 6th, I mean, Utah does start a lot earlier than everyone else. But I would say, you know, you find a bullet night, you're like, man, that bull sounds good, right? Maybe slip in there either morning or evening for sure. Evening, though. And like, you know, okay, this is where he was last night. Let's assume he's pretty close and slip in and do some soft calc on. Let's do a full soft calc call sequence and spend 30, 40 minutes, you know, like, I know you want screaming bulls, running gun, but like, if you got a bull that you found at midnight and you're like, oh, he's right here. Let's just, like, he's got to be in this, you know, look at your onx, and he's got to be right here. Like, let's slip into that, into his bedroom and see if we can call him in. I, I. One of my favorite chunks of the month is that five to 10 date. Because, like, you have big bulls that haven't herded up yet. Utah may be different, but, like, most of them haven't herded up. So, like, you start making an easy cow for them to find. Like, they might just come slipping right over, you know, like, late evening. Like that. That's a very, you know, nice enhancement. So, like, that. That's a scenario where it's like, yeah, find them at night, kill them in the day.

Yeah, I think that's one of the. Every single, you know, interviewer that we've done for this is that's their number one tactic too. It's just the nighttime bugling, locating, marking, and coming back and checking on them. Over to like, equipment, archery stuff. Where do you. We kind of talked about it in the beginning. Where do you sit on the mechanical vers fix? Like, what. What camp are you sitting in?

Yeah, I really like crossbows.

I like rifles. If I could take that.

Yeah. So as far as like, equipment stuff, like the. I mean, the mechanicals and fixed. Did. I tend to lean mechanicals recently, but I still carry fixed too. So a little bit of both. I don't know. Whatever you're confident in. And to me, like, that's a big reason is like, just the sheer confidence I have and like, my accuracy. I. With a. With a mechanical broadhead, it's like, I know I'm gonna put it right in the sweet spot.

That's exactly what trail.

That's what I said too, man.

Yeah, he said he would. He would rather have that confidence in his arrow hitting exactly where he wants it to versus the confidence of penetration. Penetration on, like, a fixed blade.

Yeah.

Yeah, dude. I mean, like last year, great example. Like, I shot my bullshit at 65 and like, he would have died anyway, but, like, the bull walks out to 104 yards. And I absolutely 12 ranged him at 104 yards. I mean, second shot, like he already had one in him. But it was like I was like, damn. And I did watch that thing go in and, like, blood shoot out. And it was like, oh, yeah, that's cool.

Which broadhead was that?

That was a sever.

A sever, man. That sever's got a name for it. It's everywhere. And obviously, by, you know, good. Good reasoning.

Yeah.

And honestly, like, you know, it's. I mean, the bull before that, whatever year. I don't know what you're on. You bowl before that 23, that bull, I stopped and sun. I mean, the sun was right behind him and I was like, blinded and made a Not. I mean, not a terrible shot, but not a great shot. Far back and high, like, probably the worst spot you want to put it. And. And that sever went all the way through. All the way through. Anyway, long story short, like, I left him overnight and it killed that bull. I think if that was a fixed blade, I don't know that it would have done the same. I just say you never know. Like, you never know.

Exactly. Yeah. Dan Staton's is the exact, you know, like, kind of the you never know thing. You know, he. He bowl last year with a sever in Montana, and he got, like, five inches of penetration, and it wasn't going to kill the bull. And he just kind of wheeled around, stopped at 75 yards. He had to get another one in it. Another one in it. And then it wheeled out to another 100 and something yards. He got another one in it. So he had three arrows in it, and he gets to it. And that first shot was five inches behind the front shoulder, and it got five inches of penetration. So he's like, never again. Like, this is exactly what I was fearful of. And it happened, so I'm just not doing it. And he. And so it's just, you know, you always. You hear both sides, and that's why the conversation is alive, because you got, you know, a guy like that with the. With the. With his experience, preaching that. And then you got you and Trail and Zach Bohe and Nate Simmons saying sever, you know, so, yeah, one conversation, like we said in the beginning, you put a hole through his lungs, it's gonna die. What are you gonna do it with? What do you have confidence in? You know, like, what. What flies best with your bow? Like, all sorts of things come into it, but it's just a fun rabbit hole to go down.

Totally, totally. And, like, I mean, the damn thing was super weird. I. I would. I mean, I'd love to know what happened there, because I saw the video and I was like, man, that's crazy. Like, it just. Just didn't do anything.

Yeah, Wild Bob's got a question.

Oh, I was just gonna say, have you guys talked about arrow weight yet?

No. What is your. What is your hell arrows set up, Cody, or do you not really pay attention to that stuff?

No, I do, and I don't do anything about it. So, like, I feel like I've been around long enough to see it go both ways so far. And I. I stayed the middle the whole time is kind of my answer, which is like, I think I shoot a 4,22 right now, I haven't measured. I just got some new arrows. So I shoot the day sixes. I just got the new XDS. I actually haven't waited them. So my old HDS were 422 with 125 grain broadhead right in the middle, right? And it's like, I remember the days when it was like, go light fast, you know, zero drop. If you're off by five yards on your guess, like, it doesn't matter. That made a lot of sense to me, you know, and I just still never really did it. And then it's like, go heavy and like it matters, you know, blah, blah, blah. So I don't know. Kind of sat in the middle the whole time and was like, all right, just keep killing elk with 420s.

Yeah.

I'm sitting up right at 421 and I need new arrows because my draw weight went up. I went from like a 340 spine. I think I'm dropped to a 250. Yeah. And I was thinking, is it worth getting a heavier arrow, like a heavier.

Head and all that going through like a 464? Yeah.

Or 50. 4 60, maybe. Yeah. I don't consider 460 like that heavy. Like, it's. That's a solid arrow. But I don't. Like, it's not 550, right. Like, it's a. There's a far gap between there. So, like, to me, like, yeah, I think anything in that, say 415 to 450, 460 even is like, yeah, it's. I mean, it's great. Like, so 420 is plenty. Yeah, I think so. I'm not the expert on it for sure, but like, there's. There's a compromise on both sides. Like, you know, you, you like say. Say I go 550, right? And I'm like, hey, let's throw the kitchen sink at this bowl. If I misarrange that or even misguess it. Like, how many times in our life has it been like, I range a bowl. Oh, he moved a couple steps. Now that three yard really matters. Like, it really matters. Like, that's a huge difference if I'm shooting a 550 grain error. 500 grain error. But the reverse is true. Is like, okay, yeah, I could go down to like a 380 arrow. And I'm shooting this thing stupid fast. But I may not get the right penetration if it's not perfect, Right. And so I think it's a compromise on both sides. And I I don't like extremism, so it's like. It feels like the guys are like, oh, you know, shoot. Single bevel. Shoot them in. Like, you can shoot them in the shoulder. I'm like. Or, you know, you can shoot them middle. Middle. And they die, too. And so, like, I just don't like to be too heavy, because I don't. I. Man, I think I've. I think more people have made mistakes on the range than they have hitting the wrong spotting.

Yeah.

The thing I have heard is that a heavier head will improve your foc and you'll shoot. That's true.

Yeah.

So that's a reason I might want to bump up to. What heads are you using? 125s.

Yeah, he's at 100.

Yeah, I'm sure. 100. Sorry, I can barely hear my mic. Oh, yeah, I would go to one. I mean, yeah, you could go to 125, especially with the 250 or the 250.

Yeah, yeah.

Because if he's sitting at 421 right now, he go bumps up to a 125. He's gonna be right there. Four hundred and forty.

Yeah.

Four hundred and forty.

Fifty.

Yeah.

And here's shooting the cooties right now, Right?

Yep. Single bubble.

Yes. Kudu. Single bevels. Fits.

I killed a lot of elk with us.

Yeah.

Last year.

Yeah. Yeah, that. He had some really good performance out of his kudu last year. He shot a mule deer at, like. What was that, 12 yards in his bed.

Like 17 or.

It's right in there, but top hand.

Yeah. But it died very quickly.

Yeah. That was the. The one thing, like, we watched him die, like, from. Well, I was far away, and Bob just smoked him in his bed, and. And I watched the bucket up and go die, but Bob didn't. And there was, like, no blood trail for you. Just like I watched him die.

Maybe a couple pin drops.

Yeah, it was. And that was. I mean, he made it 78, probably 70 yards. 50 yards, I don't think.

Not even 40 or 50.

Yeah. But Mule deer, like, he got up and just sprinted, you know, so four bounds, which is, you know, a couple seconds. See, this thing is doing some weird.

Yeah. Crazy. It's finally starting to figure. It took a while.

Yeah. Yeah.

It woke up.

It's like, oh, hey, yeah.

Yeah.

The AI. Like, it's got some new AI tech of your face. And I started talking, and it just went RTD2 right to me. Weird. Yeah.

And, you know, that's kind of like the. The Downside to the kudos is a lot of people say, don't bleed, you know, And I think, man, I'm trying to remember how many bulls died within sight, like, on the kudu. Most of them did, right? So, like, you're like, oh, did it. Well, it didn't bleed in 12 yards, but, like, it worked.

But he tipped over. Yeah. Yeah, that is. That is the. The pro forum is that, you know, it's gonna probably pass through and it's gonna damage a lot of stuff going through on the way. It's just. You might not have a good trailer. Yeah, that's. That's my questions that I have without dragging out and getting too boring that on my end, as far as what we ask. All of ours.

Yeah. I mean, like, if I could give, like, some final advice, you know, kind of develop your system. Stick to, like, you know, have a plan where you're gonna go, E, scout it. Like, have options A, B, C, talk to as many people as you can and try to, like, hone in on the areas and then hit it hard and. And like, expect the worst, but hope for the best.

Yeah, Yeah, I think that's. That's the one thing, too, is go down expecting to work hard. And if it's a. It's a slam dunk, then awesome, but don't expect it.

Yeah, we've fallen into that trap before. The. The first year we ever went to Colorado, and it was like the zero point unit, you know, but like, yeah, third season mule deer. We just thought, oh, we're going to Colorado. We're coming from Washington. We're going to Colorado. This is going to be incredible. We're showing each other pictures on the phone on the way down. Oh, are you going shoot this? Day one. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And they're like 170s. We've never seen a 170 in our life, you know, and we're just like, oh, I don't know about day one. And then we went down there and just got crushed.

It was the biggest serving of humble pie. I was so full. He's so full of humble pie. Yeah.

You chewed on your unfilled tag for, like, two years. He had it hung up next to his computer for, like, two years so he could just stare at it and get mad every day.

I never wanted to get in that headspace again. Like, don't ever expect it to be easy. So I pinned my unfilled tag above my workstation.

That's when we could talk Cody at that bar.

Oh, that's Right. Yeah, we did run. That's right.

We were there together. Yeah, that's right after I shot that monster.

Yes. Was the year we ran into.

Yeah. Craig and I were down there that year. That was 2018.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah. Super funny, man.

Yeah, we got crushed.

Yeah. And I pinned that unfilled tag next to my computer so I could always look up at it and be like, remember this?

Like, don't.

Don't ever do that again.

Well, here you are, and you're talking about how great, you know, it's going to be down in the exact.

Yeah. Not going to expect to just go in there and just arrow a bowl on the first day, and I'm like, oh, the greatest hunter ever.

And I think that. I think the problem with it is, like, you know, you get there, and it's just not what you think. It's like, man, you really kind of fall apart mentally. I'm not saying you're going to, but it's like, you know, that's where it does is, you know, take the Colorado. We were both there. So many people, and it was just like, dude, I don't even know what to do. Like, everywhere I go, there's more people. And it was just like, you know, like, trying to. Had to, like, take a step back. Like, all right. Like, you know, didn't plan good enough for this. So, like, what do we do now? And, like, I remember Craig and I sitting at dinner just being like, man, we've gone through plans A through E, like, how do we, like, rethink this? And it's like, I think we were in the same headspace on that. Huh? Where it was like, oh, yeah, Colorado. Like, it's gonna be great. And, like, you get there and, like, you just kind of. I don't want to see you spin out. But, like, didn't have. You didn't have it planned. How many times you've been on a hunt? Like, man, we did not plan well enough. And so, like, make sure. Like, maybe it's an easy hunt. Maybe it's not. Like, just plan. Like, plan as much as you can and try to figure out as much as you can, because you can't undo that. And it's very true on this hunt where it's like, you only get one shot at this. Like, you know, like, I have. I have talked to a couple people. I think I got it. Like, man, the more people you talk to, the better. And, like, just make it your job to, like, have good plans.

Have.

Have all the plans. A3. Right. And, like, Know where you're going to go, know where you're going to camp, Know where. Like, like, hey, this is our backup. That looks nothing like any of the other ones. And all those types of things. I think that's important. Yeah, that's very good advice.

Yeah, it's good stuff.

Yeah, I like it.

Me too. Cool buddies.

Well, good luck this year, man. And thanks for coming on, I guess, for both of us.

Likewise. Likewise, man.

And if people are like, for my channel, if you guys want to check out their YouTube channel, check out his peeing wild. Is that right? YouTube channel. Put a link in the show notes. I'm assuming you guys are gonna film this hunt too.

Yep.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

That's my whole job.

That's his duty, going full time this year. He's cameraman on this hunt.

Yep.

Heck, yeah. Well, good luck down there, guys.

Appreciate it, Cody. Thanks for your time, man.

Alrighty, guys. Thanks for tuning into the show. If you like this episode, do us a huge favor and share it with one of your hunting buddies. Also, if you want a free hunt planner, be sure to go check the link in the show notes. It's 100% free. You can download our hunt planning tool, which is a great resource for kind of keeping track of all of your hunts, your hunt plans, your points, all those things. Pretty great resource. Go check it out links in the show notes. Or you can check our website, www.elk hunt201.com.