How to Be a Dialed Backpack Hunter with Brad Brooks of Argali

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To the Hunt west podcast, here's your host, Jaden Bales. All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Hunt west podcast. Today I've got on a pretty awesome guest that I've known for quite a few years in Brad Brooks at our. Golly, he's on the other line. Brad, how are you this morning, Jaden?

It's a beautiful day in Boise, Idaho. Great to chat with you as always, my friend.

Yeah, for sure. Dude. Last time I had you on a podcast was back in the old Muley Monday days. Do you remember doing that?

Oh, my gosh, yes, I do. But I don't even know what year that was.

It was probably 20. Yeah, probably 2020 or 2019.

Like the dark days of dark early days of COVID times.

Yeah, exactly. It's when we were all stuck inside and on zoom anyway, so might as well just record a podcast. But, dude, back then we talked a lot about deer. We talked about archery, deer hunting, backpack deer hunting and stuff. It was super helpful. I should probably find that old podcast and get it reposted. But in. In the years since then, it's kind of funny. It feels like you've been doing a lot of elk hunting lately. Is that true?

I mean, to be. To be fair, yes and no. I mean, I have three mule deer hunts this year all over the place, and the mule deer are still the object of my desire. But what we realized, like, content wise, is that people just love elk hunting. And so we have done more content around elk hunting, but it doesn't mean that I'm not deer hunting, if that makes sense. We're just not filming it and talking about it. That makes sense because my. And if the. The truth of the matter is like, the. The places that I really cherish for meal deer hunting, we don't. There. There are no cameras around for those hunts, so people just don't know about it as well. But. So yes and no. I think. I think you're. You're keenly observing that we have been doing more elk hunting content as a brand because that's what the people would want. So we give the people what they want. But I have still been mule deer hunting pretty obsessively as, like, I always have been.

That makes sense. So as you think about it, from like a. From like a gear perspective and planning perspective, what's easier to pull off for like a backcountry hunt as a deer hunt or an elk hunt?

Ooh, good question. Um, I don't.

I don't.

I mean, I guess it depends on whether you're talking about archery or rifle. I think for, for me, an archery deer or elk hunt is relatively similar in terms of gear, except the only exception is I don't. I rarely take a spotting scope on an elk hunt especially. I mean I never take a spotting scope for archery elk. Maybe I shouldn't say never, but almost never because I just don't spend any time looking at elk through a spotting scope typically. But deer, I'm, I really want to get a good sense of what I'm looking at and so I'm studying the, studying the antlers pretty intently on mule deer. So I guess in that regard elk would be a little less weight and elk, elk hunting for me, they're very different styles of hunting. I talk about if I'm just thinking about like archery hunting and the gear I take, like an archery elk hunt for me, I, I'm think I am typically just wandering with an elk herd or just kind of, I don't know, backpacking and following my nose wherever I want to go. I do the same thing for deer, but with deer archery hunting, you're moving a lot slower pace because I'm just always. Anxious isn't the right word. I'm all. I'm always conscious of the fact that when, especially if you're hunting in like open ish or open country, the chances of a good sized mule deer seeing you first are really, really high before you see it. So the pace at which I move is much slower. Elk during the rut are just, they're just kind of, this is going to sound pejorative, but they're just kind of dumb. Yeah, like I'm not worried about elk. Like, you know, elk are typically going to, you're going to see them or hear them during the rut before they see or hear you. Deer are the exact opposite. And that's why I love them because they're just so damn hard to hunt, especially big deer. So in that way, the gear choices I make for mule deer hunting are really about stealth, keeping a low profile, moving slowly, really, really covering ground with, with, with glass intently and not leaving no stone unturned because you just, you don't know where a big deer is going to hide. And sometimes, you know, they could be right underneath your nose and you just don't see them. So yeah, I don't know if I'm answering your question, but I think the gear choices are, are similar in many ways. But the way in which I hunt them, at least early season is very different. And then if you think about like rifle hunting, mule deer is just a lot, I tend to put a lot more miles on looking for big deer. So in that way I really have to be conscious of, of my weight on my back because I will, I will do pretty big trips looking for big mule deer because, and I'm not as concerned about especially late season, like meat spoilage. It's easier to pack out a deer than an elk. So I will, I will go a lot further looking for big deer than I would for an elk. I'm not gonna go, you know, 15 miles away from the trailhead looking for an elk on foot, but I will for deer.

Okay, so when you're comparing those two things, like, let's just take that October, like the rifle stuff, because that's where most people are like usually planning for, you know, deer and, or elk. Are you basically, are you saying like for deer you're out here going to run the lightest setup you can, obviously staying warm, but you're going to run light? And then maybe for elk you might go three or four miles and then just set up like one of your tents with a stove? Or is that just oversimplifying it? I.

Maybe a little oversimplifying. It really does depend on the situation. But you're, but you're, you're on. Yes. I mean, yes in some ways too, that for deer, I, I will go as light as I can. Late season though, I, I do take like a stove because the often, you know, if you're going to get bad, if it's going to be really cold and nasty out, just suffering in like our one man tent, for example, like, it's just not a lot of fun and eventually if it's really bad weather, it just, it's going to get to you eventually being wet and cold. So I have found that I go as light as I can while still recognizing that like I'll check, you know, do a weather check beforehand. If I expect really cold, nasty weather, I will take the appropriate amount of gear. So sometimes that might be like a two person tetanus stove or a four person tetanus stove. But yeah, in general I'm trying to go as light as possible always. And I take that fairly seriously just because it's, you know, it sucks packing around a lot of weight. And I've just learned the more I've done this that there's a direct correlation between the amount of weight on your back and the amount of effort you're willing to, to put in. If I. There are some Places I hunt where it's like more strategically beneficial to set up a base camp and kind of do like a spoken wheel style strategy where it's like you're going to camp in this, in the hub and then you can go any direction and go hunting. So sometimes though, it's just better to kind of pack camp on your back and kind of do a loop and I'll plan those, those loops out in advance. Um, so yeah, it just depends on the, on the situation and where I'm going.

I might steal that spoken wheel strategy idea. Like I've never heard it like explained like that, but that makes so much sense. And I don't know if you, if you said you, you were particularly doing that for elk or deer, but I feel like for deer in particular, gosh. Like that's such a good way to do it. If you can find like one place where you can, you know, shoot out in the morning and the glass out one ridge and then, you know, bounce to another ridge. Like that makes so much sense.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Especially if you're learning a new area. So, so yeah. So like if you're, if you're. I mean there's so many, so much I could talk about here, but like, yeah, in October, depending on what time, if you're in the intermountain west running mule deer, you can really learn a lot by being relatively stationary relative. I say relatively stationary. So if you're hunting, let's say like a big ridge system. And I have had this happen to me where I have hunted the same general area multiple days in a row. And by observing what was. And so like this happened maybe like five years ago, totally new area.

Okay.

And I hunted the same area multiple days in a row. When I realized I'm like, man, I'm seeing new bucks show up in the same kind of small basin, not a high alpine basin, but just as basin every day. Why is that? Well, when I came to learn, I hunted that same area over. I didn't have the answers. But over time I realized it was a. One of the migration paths that deer were taking, transitioning from summer to winter range. And I actually was able to verify that with a biologist. But, but I, I like again, just like covering relatively, you know, the same amount of ground using that spoke, that hub and. Or spoken wheel. Hub and wheel. I don't know, I'm, I'm butchering.

I like spoken wheel. It sounds really, you know, like old timey.

Yeah, it does make a song about that. But anyways, just like observing and and observing the same general area for multiple days on end, I just was like, I'm not seeing the same deer. Why is that? And it's like, oh, I found a. Here. I found like a little bit of a micro migration corridor for this particular area. I have since gone back to that zone multiple times and, and it's, it's a great, great hunting spot. But had I not just, you know, had that consistent presence in the area where it's not like I just watched it one morning or evening and then I was like, ah, moving on. So sometimes there's value, particularly in mule deer in October when you're in that transition period between, you know, they're not in their summer range, typically they could be still be in their summer range, but typically they're starting to transition around that middle of the month to just being a student observing, looking at what's going on. And if you're, if you're paying attention, you might learn things about what deer are doing during that time of the month where you're at. That could be really valuable.

Dude, that makes, that makes total sense. I like it when you talk about being a student because that's like the number one thing I always harp on is just trying to be a student of the craft, you know. And then also like you're talking about just be a student when you're actually out there. So when you're thinking about it from like maybe a September elk perspective, you know, I, I really like what you're talking about with deer. You're like, like get in there and then just like learn what's happening around it. You don't have to cover as much ground. But like a September elk hunt. It was kind of funny. I was talking to a guy about backpacking into some backcountry yesterday and I was kind of like, yeah, man, the elk are just kind of, just kind of back there. You just gotta go, just go get them, you know? Like, I don't. It. It doesn't feel like it's quite as. It doesn't feel like quite as measured, you know, it's like they're there. Has that basically been your approach too? Or is that, you know, or are you still really, really picking apart little pockets when you're, when you're back there?

Are you talking about archery or rifle?

Let's go. Archery. I mean, it seems to be on top of a lot of guys mind.

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I just, I mean, I think you just got to get in there, get in there, walk and find Them that I think archery elk is probably. Is typically. It's usually like the most physically demanding hunt I'll do in a year. Because, yeah, there. It's a binary equation with elk during. Especially in the rut. It's like they're either there or they are not there. And if they are not there, then you have to go find them. And for me, oftentimes, you know, if we're talking early. Early to mid part of the month, like, I'm. I am usually looking for an animal that is talking and not tied up with a. A herd. A bull. Right.

Right.

Later in September, which is what I hunted the end of the month last year. And it's. I have a very different strategy, which is like, if I find elk and they're around, it's really a spot and stock game for me. Um, that's how I killed a bull last year. Never called to him once. Just, you know, stuck it in him while he was rutting his cows in the wide ass open and shot him. Um, but to your point, yeah, it's like you just like, my. My usual approach is like, I'm preparing to just be a wanderer. If I get to a spot where I'm like, this is a. I've got a. Whatever. There's some strategic reason you want to camp here. There's water, you. There's elk all around you. It's like, yeah, I'm gonna camp right here. This is a good idea. Being very careful not to camp, like, you know, on top of them for multiple days on end. I have had people do that a number of times where I've hunted, and it's like. It's kind of frustrating. You're like, this is not a very good spot to camp. Like, don't camp here. Like, wander a mile away so you don't blow the elk out of the zone. They want to be here. But, yeah, so, yes, I would. Long, long, long story long here. Yes. It's. It's very much like, throw your pack on, plan out your route, and just wander until you get into them. And if you don't get into them, keep wandering.

Yeah, for sure. And it's kind of like the more miles you can cover, the better. For guys who are, like, doing the front country, I'm always talking. I. I coined a new phrase, I guess, of, like, surgical strikes at the edge of the backcountry. Like, but for guys who are going into the backcountry and have that physical ability, obviously get after it, you know?

Yeah. And I think, can I Just say one more thing on that is. Yeah, absolutely. I think that there is, I mean I, I love backpacking just because I like, I like that style of hunting. But I, it is not the best way to archer elk hunt. Like in terms of success always like there, there are plenty of people that I know. In fact some of, some of the, the, some of the biggest killers of elk that are in my like friend circle, they are not backpack hunters. These are, these are day hunters and they're just finding pockets that other people are overlooking and they're focusing on that. So it's not a, not necessarily like the further you go, the better the hunting type situation. In fact, I think that there is a lot, especially in today's era that people are walking a lot of places people are walking right past and overlooking. So that, Yeah, I just wanted to say that like I like backpack hunting. It's fun, but it isn't necessarily the best way to kill a giant bull.

Yeah, but so let's just say, let's just take an example. Someone is really, you know, physically fit and can do it and, and be efficient. You know, I think that's half the battle is like if a guy burns himself out getting to the elk in the backcountry, then like you can't make the moves, you need to stay with them. But let's just say that this the same example is like the person's fit, they can do it. How are you, you know, how would you suggest like someone decide whether to go deep into the back country versus just hunt the hunt the mid ground, front country type stuff?

Yeah, I, I think part of it is just being honest with yourself about the, your physical abilities. To your point, if, if you're, you know, you could spend a lot of time just following an L curt around for a day or two and it can be exhausting. Cause they're going to go high, they're going to go low and so, so one is just like be honest about where you're at physically and then two is just, it's just kind of an experience thing. Like do you want a backpack on? If you don't care about the experience of backpacking, then you know, day hunting is probably a great option for you. I like doing it just because again I, I enjoy the solitude. I enjoy sort of being out there either by myself or with, you know, a close friend. But I, I do a lot of hunting alone and I enjoy that style of hunting. So I think it really just comes down to the kind of experience you're looking for, but I, I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer. So like if you, you know, if you're, let's say coming from, coming out west, from Midwest, east coast, never been to the mountains, or you want to get like the full experience of what it's like to backpack in the mountains, like more power to you. Yeah, I'd say that there's a, you know, obviously we get a lot of customers to do that. I've run into a number of people just out trump around in the west who are like first time backpack hunters. And I'd say like, there's a wide degree of variability in terms of the preparedness level that I run into. Some people are like real dialed, come in from out of state, they've done all their homework, they got, you know, they know what they're getting into. And then I've also run into the exact opposite. Like last year I ran into this just super nice guys, but you just, you know, you see their backpacks, you see the weight on their back and you're just like, oof. And they're a mile into a, they're planning to go seven miles in and they're one mile in and they're already struggling and you're like, man, you're going to have a really, you might not have a great hunt if this is where you're at right now and you feel bad for them. Right?

So anyways, yeah, it's one of those things. I mean, I think a lot of folks will put all their eggs in like the backcountry basket and when they get in there and get like kicked in the teeth and they don't have backup plans, so they're like, well now what, you know is like that's half of the battle. It's just knowing what to do when you go, well, now what?

So, well, yeah, no, that's a good point. Like, so I ran into two guys last year, super nice guys. They were planning to mountain bike with their backpacking packs on in the area that we were going into. And I'm an avid mountain biker. I would never put a 60 pound pack on my back and think I could just ride my bike in the mountains. And they were, they were a little, they were about a half mile in on the trail and they were dumping their bikes on the side because they realized that it was going to be futile. And yeah, I don't think they had thought through the what now? You know, to your point about like, okay, this is not going to work. And they had literally had six miles left to go, and they were just like, ah, we don't know what we're going to do now.

Oh.

So, yeah, I felt for them because they were. They were from Florida. They had come all the way out from Florida on a hunt, and I don't think they had really. Yeah. Had a plan B. Like a backup plan.

Yeah, for sure. That's. That's brutal. But, you know, the other piece of this equation that I, you know, I think getting into the country is one. You know, it's. It's one part of it, but, you know, planning to get stuff out is the other piece, you know, and, yeah, it's. I think that could get guys in a real bad pickle. I had a client come from Florida who shot a cow elk at, I don't know, three or four miles. He was quite a bit. He backpacked in and he had to go straight down to the truck and took him three days to get a cow elk out that he shot.

Oh, wow.

So, you know, it makes. It makes me think about, like, how do you think about getting them out when you're solo? You know, that is. That is such an important piece of the equation. Most guys, I think, are like, well, we'll just figure it out when it's down. And I'm just like, oh, man, that could be your worst nightmare. That's the hardest part and probably the most dangerous, you know, as you think about being fatigued and getting out and falling over dead. Dead fall with heavy pack on or whatever.

So I remember the first time I. When I was the first. The first, like, real backpack hunt I went on. It was me and two buddies. And this is before. I mean, this is like OG days of backpack hunting. Like, the only people I knew that backpack hunted were me and my two friends. There was like, pre rock slide, pre forum days. I'm not that old, but, like, the Internet existed, but, like, there were. There was no community. Podcasts were definitely not a thing. So it was like we were just figuring it out by ourselves, right? And we were. We were about seven and a half miles into an area, and we passed this guy and his buddy on horses. And he looked at us and he goes, what are you doing? And we said, we're. We're hunting. We're backpack hunting. And he goes, boys, it's a long ways to the trailhead. And I was so offended at his comment. As if, like this, like, how dare this guy, man? He doesn't know what we can do. We're fine. We're Young, we're fit. And we proceeded to shoot Three Elk in 48 hours.

Oh, good God.

Yeah. And just had not thought through the, like that the possibility of us shooting three elk and we shot two in 24 hours. And then, then, then the second day we shot a third elk. The, the past. Luckily it was October, so meat spoilage wasn't an issue. But the, we had not, I had not, Let me speak for myself. I had not thought through like, what are we going to do in this scenario? And it was, it was, it was insanely difficult to, to, to put it mildly. Just, I mean, we didn't have great gear anyways. Yeah, it's just a total, total train wreck. So I've, I've learned that lesson the hard way. I'm very aware of what it takes to get an elk out at this point in my life. One elk or multiple elk. And I'm also aware that in September, it's a very different calculus than it is in October, typically when you have colder weather. And I think you're, you're absolutely right that if, if you have never packed out an elk just having the, I, I, I respect the audacity because I was this way of people who are like, I'm, I'll, I'm going to be fine, especially like younger guys. I love it. I love the audacity of it. I love the like, you know, we're going to, we'll, we'll pack all night if we need to kind of mentality. So it's hard for me to be critical of that because, like, I was that guy. But also, like, at this point in my life, I'm like, I'm a realist. And so you have to, you're absolutely right that like, I, I, I've seen people lose meat and this sort of like it, and they've told me, like, well, I, I, I lost some meat. And they sort of describe it in this, like, there's nothing I could do kind of way. And I'm like, well, I'm not so sure that's accurate. I don't think you thought through what it was going to take to get it out, and you just, you ran out of time. But yeah, this, just one last story. So, like, this last year, my elk that I shot was seven and a half miles in the truck. And I don't, I don't say that as like a badge of honor or like, I, in fact, I wish I could kill elk closer to the truck. I just, apparently I'm not a very good elk hunter. I have to go further.

Wait, wait. You should just tell us a story. Like, what happened. Because the other thing that I was like, keyed in on that you already mentioned from last year's story, was that you kind of, like, spot and stalked them. And that's what I'm like. I'm building guys plans around the idea that they're not. Whether they're bugling or not, that they're not call receptive and, like, just plan on them not coming to calls. And then when they do come to calls, like, great. Like, that's easy. But when they're not coming to calls, you sneak in there and, like, make it happen. So, like. Yeah, what was the whole. What was the whole story? Hey, sorry to interrupt the podcast, but I want to make sure that you knew there were two ways to have a really successful hunt this fall. One is to have been there before, and the second is to build a really good hunt plan with your E. Scouting. I can help you with the second part, but don't just take it from me. Here's a bit of a testimonial from one of my clients in the past named Todd, who used our Hunt west services on an elk hunt in Utah, where neither he or I had been.

Gosh, the points that you picked out in that scouting report were just such an important part of this trip. Hayden was able to go to those scouting points at those scouting points located out. I don't know how you do it, man. You do. Good job. Thank you so much. As a result of your good work, we were able to get this ball on the opening day.

If you want to get a hunt session or a hunt plan put together, feel free to reach out to me at. @jaden huntwest.net okay, let's get back to the show. You're listening to the Hunt west podcast.

So. So this was, like, end of September, a really high pressure chunk of public ground. So this is not a secret zone, as I found out. This is an area that I. I had not hunted in years. I used to hunt it, and I was appalled at the amount of foot traffic that was in there when I got in there. There were no other hunters there, like, right when I got in there. But there were boot tracks covering every ridge, every sub ridge. I mean, so it had been just. I could tell it had been getting a ton of pressure. There were elk bugling, to be sure. Right. But I. I have just always found that late season in particular actually let me back up. I've just found that, like, it is much harder Today to call in a, a big bull than it used to be. And I think that's just a product of, you know, a lot more people know how to call. There's a lot more people calling constantly and elk are just getting chirped at non stop during the rut. I will, I will call to locate but the idea that especially in the late season that you're going to call in a really big bull, you can, I've done it, but it's not you. I think the chances of you pushing them away are much higher than just using, using spawn sock tactics. So anyways, that was the mentality going in. It's like high pressure area. Elk are getting chirped at by hunters nonstop, everybody. Luckily for me, the last like five days of the season everybody was gone. I think it's really hard, it's much harder in some ways to kill an elk at the end of September because they have been pushed around so much. But that's kind of what I had time wise so. And in this particular spot it was more advantageous to do the, the hub and spoke strategy just based on the topography, water sources, etc. It's also happened to be there had been a fire there at some point in time. So it's, it's really open country and so yeah, I'll make this story as quick as I can, Jaden, but like.

Now do we got time? I like a good hunt. Sorry.

There, there were. It was a frustrating experience because there's, there are elk bugling. I can see elk, but there are, they're pretty large herd for some of these bulls. So you know, some of these herds had you know, 30 to 40 elk in them. It's, it's, you know, as every anybody can imagine, sneaking in on 30 to 40 animals is much more challenging than one. And so there's a lot, I'm doing a lot of looking and watching, trying to figure out how to get in on animals. A lot of sneaking through bedding areas just like still hunting and getting very close to animals but not really seeing anything that I wanted to kill or just not being able to get an opportunity. There was the night before I, excuse me. Two days before I shot my bull, there was an elk that was bugling just out in the sage. So imagine like open sage hillside with a handful of pine trees, but it's pretty damn open and we just kind of like slowly we had the, the hillside was shaded but I and I had a camera guy with me. We just slowly walked in on this bull in his he had about five cows with him in the wide open, just making micro movements and got to like 90 yards on him and just never, never could quite get close enough because we just had nothing to work with topography wise or cover wise. And it was kind of like that kind of hunt where it's like, okay, we're getting close, but not close enough. And you're not going to call, you know, I'm not going to call the wide ass open like that, Expose myself. And so anyways, the day before I killed my elk, we were. We were up on kind of a glassing knob. We see this bull late in the afternoon. He is, he's bugling pretty good in the evening. And the way the wind was going, I had plenty of time to get to him that night. But the way the wind was going and where he was at, and it's just wide open country. I'm like, I. I was just like, there's no way we're gonna kill that bull tonight. Just not gonna happen. I think a younger me would have just charged right in and tried to make it happen, but I just knew it wasn't gonna happen. I'm like, you know, we're better off just watching until dark, see if he sticks around and then coming right back here first thing in the morning. And hopefully they're not terribly far away, which is what we did the next morning. He was just fired up. He was probably a hundred yards from where we left him. They had everything they wanted right there, apparently. And wind was going downhill this time instead of uphill, which was great. And so I didn't make a peep. They were kind of in a little bit of a. It was wide open between us. But I, if we could get, you know, he was probably three quarters of a mile away, straight line distance. And we just got out of sight and then just kind of ran downhill and then back up, back up a ridge and sorry, my dog's barking right now.

It's all good.

And then, yeah, it was just kind of like I. It was, it was. By that time, it was a hot September day. It was getting late in the morning. There was green timber uphill from where I was at. And I just, you know, knowing elk figured, like, they're going to go to green timber to bed. And so he started just. He. He really picked up his bugling, which to me told me that, like, he's rounding up his cows. And this is, as I'm getting close, like, we're. We're about 85 yards from. I can't See him because there's a rise between us and them. They're on the other side of this rise. But I figure he's going to go uphill. So I go uphill on this rise. And again, like, when I say wide open, I mean it's dirt and a few grass clumps that are probably about 6 inches high.

Oh, geez, it's.

Yeah, yeah. There's no cover whatsoever. So I know as soon as the elk see us, like, I'm hosed. And so I peek over this rise and sure enough, like, he's pushing his cows straight up the bottom of this, this really small draw up to the green timber. And I was like, amazing. It's one, one of the few times where I have perfectly guessed what's going to happen in this situation. Yeah. And I just, I just waited for him. He's built his brains out pushing his cows, and I just waited for him to arrange a log. I knew he was gonna ride over it. Cause that's where the cows went and waited for him. Steps over the log, call at him, he's know, 51 yards and put it right in his heart. So, yeah, it was all in all, like, not. It all happened pretty fast. The, the real story though, is that hot September day, no shade. Trying to deal with meat was like, immediately my first, My first like, concern.

How far was that timber from. From where he died?

It was probably like 400 yards away.

Okay, so it's like. And probably a straight up hill, right?

Correct.

Yeah. Awesome.

Yeah. So we, what we did is like, I, I, us. The way I like to butcher is I like to. If I can hang all the quarters, and especially for arch season, I will. Archery season, I will debone the quarters. And then let that. So we found a. There were a couple live trees in this, in this burn. We hung the quarters maybe 100 yards from where the elk died, deboned them, and then that day, packed all the meat and everything back to our camp where we had shade. And then so we packed everything back to camp, which was, I don't know, two miles away and then that. So it took us a while to do that. And so there's two.

There's two of you guys, right? Like you and a cameraman.

So Dylan, my boy Dylan, two trips.

Did you two trip it? Or three or.

Let's see. We did two trips. Okay, two trips. And then it was mostly downhill towards the truck. And so that night we did a, A big trip all the way down, almost all the way down to the truck and hung Meat in a tree. So we took. I can't remember what I took, but like, basically, I think all the spare meat and a hind or something, and I took all the way down. Dylan took a load of meat with me. And then the next day, we took all of our camp and I took a hon, I had a hana and a shoulder and camp all my camp gear the next day. And we hauled that all the way down to the truck, whatever that was like seven and a half miles. And then turned around, we went and got a bite to eat, and then at noon, turned around and went right back up the trail and got the rest of our meat that we had stashed the night prior. And so we had it on ice within a little over 24 hours. Like, the entire elk was on ice. So I knew, but I knew going in that a Dylan, I already had a conversation with him. I was like, are you okay helping a pack meet? He laughed at me and said, of course, but I never take that for granted. And then I said, okay, based on that. I know exactly. I didn't know how far away we can be, and I know what it's going to take to get an elk out here. And 24 hours thing was on ice more. A little. A little more than 24 hours. It was on ice.

So it. You basically did, you know, he did two. Two mile trips. So you got two, four, six miles and eight getting there. So you got eight miles just getting that elk back to your camp. And then you did basically, I don't know, whatever it was. Five. Five. There's 10. And then you got to go seven. There's, you know, we're getting up there, man. You did over like 30 or 40 miles in. In 24 hours, basically.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. More than that, probably. Yeah. And a lot of elevation gain loss.

Yeah, dude, that's. Yeah, then that's a lot.

Right? It was on the limit of what I knew we could get away with, distance wise, and time wise, it was right on the limit, But I knew we could do it.

Yeah. Well, and that's a. I mean, you kind of had mentioned it before. Like, in the early days, you know, you were dealing with junkie gear and, you know, you probably were rocking a much heavier pack or. Or really suffering a little bit more.

So. Yeah.

What, you know, compared early days of doing that kind of stuff to, like, what you had last year? Like, what are the. What are the big differences, you know, especially as you're carrying half an elk out with a. With camp on it, you know, I.

Think I'm just not as dumb as I used to be. That's really the biggest difference is. Yeah, I. I mean, the gear is like, you're. I mean, gear. Today, we don't know how good we have it, man. Like, it's so much. Everything is so much better. Lighter, faster, stronger.

I mean, it's.

I mean, yeah, a lot of it is just, like, I wasn't very good in the early days at knowing what I shouldn't do or what I should do, gear wise, and now I've just, like, I have. We have everything in our. I mean, obviously we make a lot of lightweight gear, but, like, outside of the stuff we make, I mean, the options out there are phenomenal. Anything from tripods to, you know, optics. I mean, it's just a different world we live in today than, you know, 20 years ago when I started doing this stuff. So, yeah, it's.

It's.

It's. Everything's changed, man. It's just you don't. And there's so much information at your fingertips.

Right?

You got. You. You have a, you know, a great platform to talk to people about this stuff. There's podcasts, there are forums. There's all. In some ways, though, I will say this. There's a lot of bad information out there, too. There's a lot of armchair quarterbacks. And I. Yeah, I cringe when I see it sometimes. Like, people who've, like, they've maybe done one backpack hunt, and now they're an expert on everything. Backpack hunting?

Yeah.

And just shilling out bad information, like it's their job. And that's really hard for me to see because I know if you. If somebody says something with confidence and, you know, on a forum and you don't know what their experience is, like, you're like, well, this person, gosh, they're confident. They must know what they're talking about. But that isn't the case always. Right. Uh, so in some ways, there's almost too much information out there, and it's hard to filter. I think the challenge people have now is it's hard to filter out the bad from the good.

Yeah, that makes sense. What do you think is, like, the most common bad advice that you hear for guys? Backpacking? Ooh.

God, where to start on that?

In the early days of knowing you, I'd probably say bring a quilt, because I knew you're a big quilt guy, dude.

Okay, all right, all right. Yeah, yeah. So I think. I think that quilts are. Oh, God. I could talk about this. I think I mean, let me choose my words carefully here. I don't. I think that quilts are a fad in the hunting world because they're popular with backpackers. I own several quilts. I have spent. I have done winter trips in quilts. They suck. I. They just do. And. And I don't. I've used them. I think they have a place in the warmer months. They're fine because you don't. You're not worried about cold weather. But most of people. I would. I. Prove me wrong out there. People prove me wrong. If you are out there telling everybody that quilts are the only way to go, I want to know how many times you have backpacked in November with a quilt or late October in the mountains, because I have done it many times, and I have suffered every single time. So my theory is that the people that are like, sleeping bags are dumb. Quilts are the only way to go. They don't actually backpack hunt very often, or if they do, they're doing it in the warmer months when staying warm is just not, frankly, that big of a deal typically. So, um, that one is real common. Um, that one's really hard for me to.

It's.

It's like, I don't know how to. You don't want to seem arrogant about it, Jaden, but I'm like, listen, until you've suffered in 0 degree weather or 10 degree weather in a quilt that is clear that was, you know, very plenty warm, I really don't think you should be out there telling people whether or not they should be using a quilter sleeping bag. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's one. I'd say people that tell other people what boots they should wear, because boots. Boots are truly, truly, truly a thing you have to figure out for yourself, like, what works for you. There is no one boot that will work for everybody. I don't care if it works really well for your feet. It doesn't matter. Because, like, the boots that I really like do not work for my older brother, Curtis. They just don't. His feet get torn up by him. Same boot. And we both have a lot of experience backcountry hunting, but they just don't work for him. So I think that's a really frustrating thing for people. Like, this is the best boot ever. Everybody should wear this boot. It's like, nah, I don't. I don't know, man. I think you. You got to figure that out for yourself. It may or may not be good for other people just because it's been good for you.

That'S a great example. And you and I were part of like lacrosse kind of boot development project and that was a great example of like you got. Dude, it was, it was like you get 10 guys who hunt a lot in a room and no one is going to agree on what they want out of a boot. Like, this is a good example and I think that would probably go for any piece of gear. But like, like that boot for me, like what the final product they ended up with was just what I needed. But I know a lot of guys, like you said, they just get bit by it. And then I hated it right off the bat and I was just like, dude, this is like I'm still rocking a pair that's three or four years old now and I like have never had a boot go that long and I love it. But yeah, like to your point, it's just like, man, do you, are you built like me? Do you hunt the same places? Like Nevada Archery Deer Hunter is probably going to provide very, very different backpack gear recommendations than a, than a November, you know, backpack hunter in, in Colorado or whatever.

Yeah. Or Wyoming.

Yeah.

Yeah. I can I say one more that really frustrates me.

Yeah, absolutely.

Let's hear it. Particularly as a company that makes and sells tents is that there are people who will adamant, are very adamant that single pole shelters, TP style shelters are not, will not work in like Alaska or real weather conditions. And typically those people have no experience with them in Alaska. I have spent a long time in Alaska, a lot of trips using them extensively spent six weeks there. I don't live in Alaska, but I have spent a lot of time out in Alaska with. Anyways, and this is what, this is one of those things where it's really hard for, you know, when somebody says emphatically like that will never work in this situation. And I'm, I will see these comments or these emails or whatever come in and I'm like, okay, I've done it many times and it worked just fine. Like, what do you, how do you square the, you know, how do you square those two things? So anyways, just like I think the, the, the lack of humility perhaps in the, in the hunting space about gear from people who have like a fairly narrow set of experiences is difficult sometimes to observe. And I don't, I don't just so, you know, like, I don't engage in these. I'm just like, okay, whatever. Yeah, just opinions out there. But I think as a, it's, it's hard to watch when somebody Is declaring on an opinion from a limited range of experience is fact. When, you know, people like me who make these things are like, all right, well, I have a different opinion on the matter. But yeah, it'll. If I say anything, it'll just look like we're trying to defend our, our, our, you know, the things we make. But anyways.

Well, it's funny you bring that up because I don't know if I ever told you this, but last year I was on just. I did a quick like 3 day rip for backpack deer hunting. Dude, the last day it was straight up 70 mile an hour gusts and like steady 40 mile an hour winds. And I was in the Hawaii and I, I hear that's a good example. Like, I hear people say, well, you know, single pole tents don't stand up to the wind. And I always respond. I'm like, dude, I. There was trees falling over around me and that thing was just fine. Like, if you guy it out and like do. If you're, if you're good with your woodcraft, like it. You could probably make anything work at some level. But like, especially that, that example, I was like, that dang tent dude held up. You guys produced some pretty bomb gear. I love it.

Yeah, no, I, Yeah, I appreciate that. I mean, yeah, I mean, I've had. When we were making the Absaroka, I took it to Kodiak and camped on a windy ridge for five days and just got absolutely annihilated by wind and rain for day and night. And yeah, I did great. Like, it wasn't, it wasn't a fun camping situation. Cause it was so wet. But just like you step outside, your boots are soaking wet every day. But yeah, the tent did great.

So.

So what? I. Yeah, I mean, for me, when we're making something, like I'm, I'm gonna, I'm. I'm so anal about my gear that I'm gonna go put that thing in the most miserable place I can and use it and test it because I would never want our customers to be our testers. Right. Like, I don't know, it just feels like not the right thing to do. So anyway, so it's like by the time it's gotten out into the world for us anyway, it's like, man, we put that thing through the ringer. So, you know, try and try and make sure that everything we say is backed up by experience. But yeah.

Dude, how many times have you ever had a floorless shelter get flooded from the bottom? I think that's another fear, guys.

Zero.

Yeah.

Zero times.

Zero times.

Like genuinely. I've never had it happen. Have you?

We had one trickle go through the center or go through like the edge of it one time. You know how like you get just an absolute downpour.

Oh yeah.

And it'll just start little, little rivlets and like we just took some rocks and mud and dammed it up and it went around the tent. Like, I don't. It was very. It was like not a factor, you know, but that was like an absolute. Yeah, that was one of the hardest rains storms I've ever been in, you.

Know, and it's like it was it in Wyoming.

Yeah, I was in the high country, dude.

You guys get some savage storms over there.

Yeah, it doesn't rain like savage. It doesn't rain like for extended period of time. Like that rainstorm probably only lasted eight hours maybe. But when it does, dude, she lets her rip.

She does. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I was just. I was. Well, as you know, I was just in your neck of the woods and I mean, not only does the wind blow in Wyoming a lot, I mean, it was like, I think last Friday it was like sustained 45, 50 mile an hour winds where we were at. I mean, honest to God wind, like real windy conditions. Not a lot of fun to be in, but yeah. And I've also just been some of the gnarliest thunderstorms I've ever seen in my life have been in Wyoming. It's not like we don't get them here in Idaho, but I feel like they're. It's a level up for some reason in Wyoming.

It might be something to do with like we get the monsoons coming up from the south and those things seem to hit us pretty dang hard. Whereas I think you might be just far enough west, you don't get the brunt of those as much. But yeah, that's my theory. My uneducated theory. Yeah, dude. So I get a lot of people and I was just talking to a guy the other day about tent selection and obviously like, you know, you guys have everything from a tarp to an eight person. But what do you think? I mean, obviously we'll use your guys as like examples, but like for different hunting scenarios. What are you recommending for guys? Like, do you take the two person, like the ring con for two guys or like, what. How are you. How do you have that set up for.

Yeah, for hunting. Yeah. Yeah. So I think part of it depends on your size. So like for you, the Hawaii is a great lightweight rip and shelter.

Yeah, dude, I'm all a 57 and I can fit my backpack in there and my rifle and everything goes in the waihi. But I would imagine if you're a big dude, like it might not work so well.

Yeah. So I'm, yeah, like just, just a hair under 5, 6, 2 and I, I do like the oahe for early season hunts. I typically, I find myself defaulting more just comfort wise to the ring con with a half insert. So our two people the half insert because it's just a really comfy setup. So if you end up getting some gnarly weather and have to set out a rainstorm for a few days, it's just a more comfortable space. But it's, you know, more weight. Like I did a doll sheep hunt last year and I took our, it was actually a prototype of our, our Dyneema version of the Rincon and a half insert. And that was great for just one.

Guy or was that two of you?

Yeah, just, just me.

Okay.

Just me. And, and it was nice because we, you know, there was a lot of rain off and on so I could go crawl in my tent. Had all my gear in the vestibule, the other half of the tent. So backpack I could cook in there, eat in there, hang out in there. And it was pretty cozy, comfortable. I our two person and our four person tent with a half insert is our, is by far like those are our most popular combinations. And for most people that's what we recommend because most people are either hunting, they want to sleep in a tent by themselves or they're going to sleep with one other person. And then for later season hunts when you're trying to share a stove. So the only variable here is like if you, if you want to have a stove like a hot tent later in the year, there are some advantages to having a bigger tent and that's where, where the six person tent comes in handy for like three guys and a stove and all your gear. It is really, you know, to have to pack in multiple stoves later in the year. It's just, there's, there's a lot of inefficiency that goes into that. So outside of the late season, I think the, the two and the four are really going to be a good option for most, most people. And it, I, I, I don't have to, I'm even like, let's set our tents aside. Right. So like I said, just in general that's going to be a good option for you. The other thing, most people don't I think need to keep in mind is that this, the what different manufacturers call it, two person or four person or one person tent is highly variable. There are no standards. This is just kind of brands can make it up. I have seen some two person tents from some other brands, big brands, and it's comical how small they are. I don't know what size people they're using as their measuring stick, but it's comical. So just be wary of what every brand says says is their two person versus a one person. They're four person in terms of what it actually looks like size wise. And do your homework to really try and get a visual of it before you buy it.

Yeah, dude. Your guys's stuff, I like yours to your point. It is roomy for the amount of people that you're talking about putting in there. Just like was it 10 days ago. Two weeks ago my girlfriend and I camped out just like at an RV park. She was, she had a wedding she was going to and I was like, let's just pitch a, pitch the Absaroka up and we got a freaking queen size blow up mattress in that dang thing. We had to tilt. We had to tilt that. We had to tilt the pole a little bit, but like it fit. Dude, it was awesome. I was like, no freaking way.

That's pretty wild. You have to send me some photos of that next time.

Yeah, for sure.

That's pretty wild actually. Yeah. Yeah, that's our. It's, it's, it's pretty big. I mean we can fit. My wife and I and our two girls will backpack and sleep in the Absaroka and fit pretty comfortably. It's a pretty big size tent for, for the weight.

Yeah, I love it. I like, I'll bring that for two people any day of the week is perfect.

Oh yeah. It's so nice.

Yeah.

And. And late season. Did late season. Sorry. Last thing I was.

Yeah.

Is like if I know it's going to be really cold out, like I will take a four person tent, no insert and a stove because it's just so pleasant to be in. If I know I'm like, okay, I'm gonna have some snow. I might have to be in this tent for a while. Like it's not that much more weight and the. There is value in not suffering for multiple days on end just in terms of what it does for your mental aptitude and your desire to stick it out. And so that's something that I don't think new backpack hunters may not understand the psychological impact that being, you know, secluded to a tent for two, three days at a time can have on you and how that just saps your motivation.

Oh no doubt man. So you also have like an eight person tent. What's, what's like the best use case for the Yukon?

Man? I, it is big. I mean it's small enough that you can backpack with it. I've never backpacked with it. Certainly anybody with livestock who wants to get rid of their heavy tent or canvas tent. So that's we. We've had a lot of horse packers, llama goat packers who are using our eight person tent and replacing their, their wall tent with it just because they want to lighten up their setup. Car camping or trailhead. Trailhead tent setup. I've actually run into them just as funny. Funny thing just in the wild, just traveling around doing my own hunting. I've run into our eight person tent, the trailheads before. It always surprises me when that happens. I'm like what's that tent doing here?

Who brought this here?

Who brought this here? I, I think it actually for shorter backpack hunts with larger groups, I actually think it's, it is a really, a viable option because you can split up the two poles, the tent, the liner. You know, let's say you have four guys and a stove. You can split up all the gear between four guys and you're all, you know, max, the, the heaviest load is going to be the tent. So let's say one person's gonna be packing five pounds of tent. That's not horrible to have a really comfortable setup particularly in the later in the later in the year. So if you're going in in like late October, November, December somewhere and you want to have a, a really nice comfortable setup for all of your gear, sleeping area and all the space you can imagine for a stove, wood pile, et cetera, it's a great option. I just you know personally that, that is actually the a. The Yukon is, is genuinely one of the most enjoyable tents we make just in terms of spending time in it because it has so much vertical space inside with a two pole system.

Can you stand up in it?

Oh yeah, yeah yeah. You can walk around all day long. Yeah.

That's sweet.

Yeah. Well it guys out really well. It guys out super well too. It's, it's, it has 22 guy outs plus an extra 12 around the tent. So you can just really batten down the hatches in it. So yeah, it's a good, it's a good tent.

That's sweet man. Yeah, I Haven't been. That's the only one I really haven't been around yet, so. Though I notice a few of these are sold out. And obviously that's a great timing to be talking about all this, but when could. Could someone expect them to come back into stock? Before season?

Yes. So our. All of our tents actually tomorrow. I don't know when this will air.

But it'll be this weekend, so that'll work.

Okay, so by the time this airs, all of our tents except for the eight person will be back in stock, as well as the inserts and accessory options. A person will be back in early August.

Okay, sweet. Which is, I mean, again, if you're late season guy and you're looking for an a person tent, you still got time.

That's all good. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Yep. Oh, that's awesome, man. Well, I know you have. You're always putting out some sweet video content. What's the best place for guys to, like, stay up to date with what you have going on?

Oh, I'd say YouTube. Just look us up Argali and then Instagram or Gali official. Those are kind of the two. Two best places to keep up to date with what we got going on.

I love it. I love the Marshall minutes too. For those who don't know, Marshall was. Went to school with me in high school, and like, he's just a goofball, so he's fun to see the stuff you guys are putting out up there with him too. It's been cool.

He's. We're lucky to have him on our. On our team. Great dude. And I always forget you guys grew up in the same small town, but yeah, Marshall's. Marshall's fantastic. He's a natural on camera.

That's awesome, man. Well, Brad, thanks for doing this, man. I really appreciate it. Hopefully we help some guys figure out how not to get over their waiters backpacking for elk and dialing it in their gear this fall.

Yeah. Always good to chat with you, man.

Yeah, same to you. All right, we'll talk to you later.

Okay. See ya.

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