How to Get Started Out West

Foreign.

To the Hunt west podcast, here's your host, Jaden Bales.

What's up, everybody? It's Jaden Bales here with another Hunt west podcast. Today's episode is a little bit different in we're sharing our friend Weston Homa's podcast and interview that he did with me on his show called Run the Rack. And his podcast, it's a fairly new one. He just fired it up this last March. And Weston is a young go getter from back East. And in this podcast, we talked a lot about how someone who has never hunted out west before can really break down all the steps that someone would need to take to come out west hunting elk or mule deer for the first time. In this episode, we actually dove deep down the rabbit hole of what it would look like to hunt elk for the first time if you're coming to a western state. And in particular, we kind of talk about some ways that people can get tags right now, even though it's July to still hunt this fall. We also talk about how someone can focus on a state and get to know that state and then kind of evolve as they've figured that state out into adding such a different myriad of states that might fit their style, fit their expectations, and in particular just really fit their long term strategy for coming out west and, and becoming a Western hunter not just for one year, but for ongoing years as well. I hope you really like this podcast. Weston does a good job of asking good questions and, and keeping this, you know, theoretical person moving through the. The cycle of what the life cycle of a Western hunter from somebody coming out from back east might be. And I think a lot of you might find some value in this. If you're someone who lives out west already and you get tags in your state on a regular basis, you probably might not gain as much from it. But I think that there's some nuggets in there too, where we talk about ways to find new spots to go hunting, whether it's, you know, looking around private ground or talking about getting deep into the backcountry and, and using your glass versus, yes, still hunting. And then we also dive into some gear stuff towards the end. So there's a little bit of something for everybody here, but especially for those who are coming out west for the first time, this is going to be a, an episode that's basically geared for you. So I hope you enjoy this podcast with my friend Weston Homa as he interviews me on the Run the Rack podcast.

Enjoy.

All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode. Of the Run the Rack outdoors podcast. Today I got on Jaden Bales from the Hunt west podcast. Jaden, how's it going, man?

Dude, it's going good. Thanks for having me on today. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, for sure. Dude, before we dive right into it, do you want to talk a little bit about your platform Hunt west, what you're tied up in, and like, a little bit of background about you?

Yeah, sure, dude. So for those who don't know, I grew up in northeast Oregon, just grew up in the mountains all the time with parents, grandparents, and parents on both sides who, like, took me hunting and fishing all the time. And it was awesome. Then I did the thing where you go off to college, follow a gal to a new state. That state happened to be Wyoming. And I got really into hunting. Basically I was getting really into it right in college, but then as soon as that was over, I could put a ton of time into it and, dude, it sank his teeth in me. So I spend a lot of time outdoors, and then, you know, I started having people kind of hit me up to be like, hey, you know, what do you think about this area? Like, how would you hunt this? And, like, I don't know if it was just casual, you know, that they were just wanting another person's perspective or what, but I started building hunting plans for people in like, 2020, and then I started charging for it in 2022. And last year I took it as my full time business with Hunt west. And I call it West Planning Company just to kind of differentiate the planning and business side of it from the podcast. And then the podcast, yeah, is kind of taken off as its own being. So we basically just try to help people, you know, with planning hunts, setting expectations, getting prepared for fall adventures, and it's been really fun. Back in the day, you know, one of my kind of main starts into the hunting industry was working with Cody Rich at the Rich Outdoors. And I used to run a Muley Monday podcast with him for, oh, two years or so. And that was. That was a blast. So I just love getting people on who know way more than I do about all these different topics and picking their brain. You know, I hunt a lot and, you know, I got a lot of heads, but I always feel like you can be learning something and that's really fun. And it's the fun part about doing podcasts. So. Yeah, no, that's. That's kind of me in a nutshell.

That's awesome, dude. Yeah. Forever a student of the game, right?

Yeah, that's Exactly. You know, you'll never. You'll never master the craft, but if you treat it as a craft, then you can get better every day. You know, it's like a woodworker has never finished, you know, learning all of the different aspects of his craft. And I think that hunting is the same.

That's it, dude. I love that. That's funny too because, like, I feel like when I started hunting out hunting out west, so I started about. What was it, 20. 20. 2021 is when I started going out west. I grew up hunting back here in Pennsylvania and stuff, obviously. But, dude, that's when I found out what a podcast was like. It was hunting podcasts. And that's when I really started, like, yeah, becoming more of a student within this craft and picking up books about mule deer hunting. Mule deer and elk behavior. And I hadn't read a book. I think I read one book through high school just to spite my English teacher who was giving me a hard time. But I found though, that kind of mindset of forever student and everything. And now I'm like, I always got a book I'm grabbing, whether it's hunting related or whatever, and cranking out podcasts for things I'm interested in. Like, that's. That's what's cool. And it's really fun having conversations like this too, on your own too, because it's like, selfishly, I'm learning too. And then obviously we're putting out there and it's all the better.

Yeah, you bet, dude. And it's funny, like, I get a lot of guys from back east say, well, like something to the effect of, well, I didn't grow up doing this, so I'm not very good at it or I don't know, you know. And it's funny like, because I grew up in a family that was doing it all the time. And what you have found is like, locals to the western hunting game can be stuck in their ways because they just think that, you know, something that worked in 1987 is going to continue working in 2025. And it's just. Is really not the case in most scenarios. And I grew up, I love my family, I loved the hunting adventures we used to have. And my dad has adapted quite a bit. But it was kind of like the old school family camp. Like doing that thing was really good. But there's a lot of years we didn't get anything right. And so I just, you know, as I'm thinking about your experience, like learning through podcasts, I did the Same thing. And had a bunch of really awesome mentors that, like, brought me into kind of an adaptable strategy. Something that's, like, a little different than what we used to do in the olden days. And now it's kind of cool because it's coming full circle and some of those old school strategies and tactics are working and they're applicable today. So it's. It's really fun to find out all the tools in the toolbox based on the different people you talk to, for sure.

Yeah, that is really. That is really interesting. And I really like the idea of what you have going on with your planning and stuff, because what I found, like, over the years is, like, if people. I mean, if people want to go with an outfitter and a guide and, like, do all that, like, that's great. But gosh, what a world of difference a hunt can be. Going out west to a place you've never been before versus, like, if you have some little information on it, or you can go back to the same unit the second year, you feel like a completely different hunter, just with, like, some sort of base information. Whether you can, like I said, do that or, you know, have somebody like you help out, plan, or even if you got at some point boots on the ground or something like that, like, that's so next level, because you get out there back east, like, those mountains are way bigger and steeper, and you got glassing. You got glassing pins, like, all over on X. And then you're just like, yeah, I don't know about getting up there.

Yeah, for sure. And I also should say, like, I do guide people in the fall too, and it's really, like, for people who have the budget to do is such a. It'll. It'll definitely shorten the learning curve. But, like, it. It's. It's expensive. Right? There's no doubt about that.

Yeah.

Um, but it also depends on the guide and the type of hunt you do, too. I'm really excited. I've got a family from Indiana coming out that contacted me about elk hunting, and they all drew cow tags. And part of the hunt that I'm really excited about is they want to just, like, learn how to do the western style of hunting. They want to learn how to glass, how to stock in on something, how to grab a good vantage point, like, those kinds of things. And as a guide, like, I'm also really interested in teaching that. But like you said, it's either that or you're out there, you know, burning boot leather on your own and trying to figure it out and it just takes years. It really does, man. There's nothing you can really replicate for repetition.

Yeah, I mean I ate a couple years of tags before I punch anything out there. It definitely, I mean it's still fun. Like I don't regret any of it and I love doing it that way. But obviously you can, you can learn a lot doing the other ways too. And that, that does sound like a fun hunt. Like going with people like that that are just like, dude, I got this cow tag, but I just want to learn like how to quarter an animal. I want to learn how to glass. I want to learn like just about the behaviors of these animals. Like that sounds way more fun than the guy that hits you up and is like, listen, man, if you don't put me on a six by six in like five days, like I'm not tipping you or like something.

Yeah.

You know. Yeah.

And I've certainly, I've had both versions of clients. They can, can be very frustrating. But you know, just for anybody coming out east from back east, it's like, dude, even for someone who lives out here, I was and was born and raised elk hunting and deer hunting. It took me seven years to kill a bull with my, my bow. And granted that was probably like a lack of talent, but also like, it just is, it's just hard, man. Yeah, hard. And I think that that's something that people undervalue or over, over expect is to come out and just be covered up in animals. Because that's what you see in the highlight reels on the Internet or on tv. So yeah, it's important. Like, and like you said, you've been, you've, you've put in your time like eating tag soup. And that's why I think there's some different ways to get into the game today than maybe even five to 10 years ago that people should be thinking about. We can probably dive into that a little later. But yeah, just getting good repetition before you are going to the super bowl is like really important.

Yeah, for sure. So I wanted to kind of walk through of a common like scenario that I've got. I've gotten talking to whitetail hunters from, from back east here and I'm sure you've gotten all the time and it is like the most like loaded question and like it just, it's funny to even ask, but I think it'd be fun to like have this as the essence of the conversation and then we're just going to break it down. Break it down. Break it down. So somebody hits you up and is like. Or you're talking to, you know, somebody randomly jaden. And they're just like, yeah, you know, I'm from back east or down south or the Midwest and I hunt my white tails and that's all cool, but man, I would like to kill an elk. But I don't even know where to start. I don't know, like, how do you like the point? Like this is what I hear. Like the points thing, I don't know, like, I don't want to deal with it. And it's like, okay, well if you want to do it, you gotta, you gotta start. So if somebody asks very broadly, how do we, how do I go about hunting in the West? Where do, where, where can we start?

So the number one thing that I think people should do is just pick a, pick a state that you're like interested in. If you're living in Wisconsin, I love Montana as a state for you to start with. If you're in Nebraska, Wyoming or Colorado. Makes sense, right? Like pick one of these first states that will be easier to drive to. You can cut out some time. If you're living in California, you know, Idaho is a great state, like, or Utah. Starting with one state is like how you start eating the elephant, like one bite at a time. Because as most folks know, like, there is a pretty complicated application process to get the tags that everyone is seeing on tv, et cetera. But I'm not sure when you're releasing this, but you know, as, as of early July, there are, let's see, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Six states that you could buy over the counter elk tags in still across the West. And a lot of those over the counter tags may be something like it's reissued and you have to sit on the queue and grab one. Maybe they are a true over the counter tag, like the tag sales coming up in Utah or Oregon, or they're cow tag. And it's like, oh, sweet. I didn't have to have any points. I'm not burning any points. They're, they're usually cheaper in some states. Like you can go in this fall still and we're in the summer, in the middle of summer. And so I think a lot of people think that it's just something they can't attain because they haven't started 10 years ago. But the fact is if you choose one state and start learning the ways that they issue tags and reissue tags and have over the counter options, it becomes really attainable. You're like, oh, crap. Like, actually, I should. I could go now. And then other things start cropping up. Usually those guys who say that have put off doing the research and therefore they end up coming up with other excuses why they can't come this. Go out this fall. But you could definitely go next fall and that would be. That would be easy.

Yeah. I just like how, you know, in today's world, everybody talks about how impossible it is to get tags, but literally you just said right there, it's the summer, it's July right now, and there's six tags. There's technically six tags over the counter where you could still hunt an elk this fall.

Yeah.

For a non resident.

And just to clarify, like, that's a mix of like reissued tags, landowner tags, and you know, over the true over the counter tags.

Right. And I know that, but isn't that, like, fun to think about? Like, there's still.

Yeah, yeah. It's awesome. And it's someone like, if someone went into the tag application game next, next spring and struck out because they were going into the Idaho new system or they're throwing down in New Mexico and didn't draw, it's like, dude, everyone just like goes, I didn't draw. Like, I'm out. And it's like, no, no, no, no. Like, there's a lot of other options on the table that again, it takes. It just takes some effort, some research on one unit or one state and you can start turning up these things and you're like, oh, man, I can go out west every year still. And in a lot of cases, you know, with. With our example of elk, it's like, actually elk opportunity is increasing in a lot of places, especially for cows, and it's a really good way to get people started, especially as you wait for bull tech. But again, it was kind of that example. I was like, dude, I don't want the first time that I play in the super bowl to be my first football game. You would really want to. If you're building points and doing the application game to get a bull tag, you would want to know how to hunt elk by the time you got there. And that's where I think that that cow tag is really underutilized and like a good opportunity for people to be looking at, for sure.

And they eat just as good, you know, or better.

Yeah.

So, yeah, piggybacking off that. Because I know this conversation might flow more easy if I pick a species at this point. So let's just pretend like the guy in our story here is saying, okay, okay, okay, I hear you. Elk. I want to hunt an elk because I'm from New York and we don't have elk here. So. Just mentioned over the counter, so. And everybody's heard of points. So trying to think of the easiest way to explain the difference between an over the counter tag and a draw tag that requires points. We can get in the weeds as much as we want, but at a high level, if you're kind of just explaining this to somebody, what would you say?

So you have an over the counter tag, which is just like over the counter medication. You just walk up to the store and you get, you purchase the tag and you go hunt. Like that's largely how most whitetail hunting is distributed that most folks can relate to. Right. Then your draw tags with points are oftentimes a scenario where every year that you are waiting to draw a tag, you have improved chances to be either at the front of the line and get one or to just improve your drawing odds once you're in the pool with everybody else. So at this point in the game, sometimes you have to apply in a certain time frame in the spring to get your point. But then there's other states like Wyoming and Montana where you can just purchase your points in this like other time frame of the year.

Why? Just went on sale today, right?

Yeah, I think it was, it was today and then or Montana, but both of them start like now in, in the summer and go through the, the fall for the most part. So yeah, yeah, it's just one of those things where it's like the points game. The best way to think of it is it improves your chances the more times that you purchase points. And that's how you get a long ways down the road for these really high demand tags. Right. But gosh, every state that I, that, you know, I could think of that has robust elk populations and a lot of opportunity, it just takes a couple like two, three points and you're in the game, you know?

Yeah. Two, three points, meaning two, three years kind of in the line. Yep. And if you were to tell this guy who wants to come out and hunt elk, would you recommend people getting points right off the bat or would you say, hey, let's just get this over the counter tag now and then, see how you do.

Usually it's a both. Right. Like if you've got an over the counter tag, it doesn't take points. So whether it's Colorado, second or third season rifle elk tag, or it's a Montana B tag, which is their cow tags, or it's Wyoming's like leftover cow tags. Like those don't take your points. So you can go do that and still get, you know, a year of points. So it's like, it's a yes. It's like do both of those things. Um, in most of these cases, I.

Like that attitude too, because it's like, you're gonna do it. Yeah, let's do it. So, okay, we'll keep diving down the rabbit hole. Our guy here says, all right, I hear ya. I see these over the counter tags in Colorado. I want to do that. I want to buy an over the counter elk tag in Colorado. When can I go? Where can I buy it? And what can I do now in the summer to best get me ready.

Okay, so I'm going to make a slight delineation between like a returned tag that you can pick up over the counter.

Perfect.

And your over the counter tags that are just unlimited. Okay, that's great.

Yeah.

Whether you are looking at Montana, Idaho, even Nevada and Colorado, there's a whole system where people who, let's just say you drew a different hunt somewhere else or you found out your, you know, wife's having a baby and you got to turn your tag back in, you can't go on the hunt. There's a whole system that reissues those licenses to other hunters and that goes throughout basically like August through the fall. Those tags, for example, are oftentimes, they can be really high demand stuff that.

Like just someone I didn't know Nevada had this. This is. Okay, that was interesting. Okay, go ahead.

They can be really high demand stuff that just gets turned back in and needs to go to somebody. Right. So those tags in particular, they do take a little bit more effort on your part to know what kind of a hunt you want. That would be like your, your archery hunters in particular should be looking at something like that, especially in Colorado, now that there's no non resident over the counter hunts. And those, those are going to be like, okay, I want to be an archery hunter. Like maybe that's, that's the thing you focus on. If you're a rifle hunter and you're looking at either Utah's over the counter, Colorado's over the counter, or some of these cow tag states. Then it's basically like, okay, I just want to, I just want to find something with decent public land. So as you kind of have, you know, chosen one state that we were talking about earlier to choose from, then you figure out what parts of the state are going to fit the kind of style of hunt you want and then you can look at, you know, what kind of opportunities are there, either over the counter or do those reissues. So it's like, you know, you're kind of narrowing the funnel down as far, you know, each time you go into these steps. Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, I was gonna say side tangent.

Yeah.

So, yeah. So Colorado elk as a non resident, you can hunt in. We'll just call it the rifle season. We can get into to the different rifle seasons, but you can hunt elk with a rifle over the counter and you can no longer hunt elk archery in the traditional over the counter way. Yes. Like driving to Walmart the day before the season or during the season even and buying a tag. Did you, did they come out with now this year's results? Like, I was curious with all those units, did they basically take like, were they just zero point units? Were there? Were their units left over? Was. Is it still pretty slim pickings as long as you get in the draw? Yeah.

They haven't published the leftover list yet and I was just looking before we hopped on. But the vast majority of those tags were super easy to draw. And I've helped in playing some hunts for guys who have, who have those. And I'm really excited. I'm excited because like, again, that just means all of these hunts that were once over the counter, so you didn't have to think about planning until you got in your truck and drove west. Now you just have to think about it in April or. Yeah, really, it's like early April, so last part of March, you have to think about putting in for those early. So your, your timeline might have shifted and when you're thinking about this stuff, but as long as that's marked on your calendar, you can still go every year.

Yeah. The only thing there's. This is just my personal opinion. There's what I like about it and what I don't like about it. Like, what I don't like is what everybody, you know, kind of says, like, Colorado was my fallback. You know, that was always something you can just grab after all these other states have their results posted. And also now, like, I wonder, like, what I wanted to look at too was were these possible to get second choice where you didn't burn your points? Because say, if I have like eight elk points in Colorado and I've been holding out for this 12 point elk unit, I still would like to keep hunting elk, but I don't want to just throw my eight points away, you know what I mean? Like, can I still get these traditional over the counter units? We're getting a little bit detailed, but this is kind of my own curiosity.

Yeah, there's a lot of them, man. And I like helping guys on those second choice hunts because they're similar in style. Like, this is a really important distinction I think people should think about and make. Just because it's limited now doesn't make it some sort of high quality experience. It doesn't necessarily make it like there's nobody else out in the mountains. What Colorado has done is essentially issued the same amount of non resident tags in the, in the draw as we're participating in over the counter. Oregon did this exact same thing a couple years ago when they got rid of a large portion of their east side Rocky Mountain elk tags. It's just like the hunt hasn't changed and you got to remember that. But yes, like long story long. Yeah, there's a lot of opportunity in that second choice.

Okay, cool. What I do like about it is this makes more sense from like a management perspective because they're going to have a better idea of where people are hunting because now getting those tags, you're going to have to pick your unit. You can't necessarily bounce around to other units and they just have a better, they know the number now of like how many tags are bought and things like that. And then the other thing I like about it too is like if you made this a little bit harder than just driving to Walmart and buying a tag, to me, maybe that keeps out some of the riff raff. Maybe it keeps out the guys that are just kind of like, you know, I mean, I would love to get a tag that easily too, but if, if guys don't want to just like take the extra few minutes to learn, like, okay, how do I submit an application? Maybe they aren't, they aren't like, you know, I'm totally just judging or whatever. But like, if you can't figure that out, maybe like, like there's a lot of other things you need to be figuring out to actually do this hunt successfully anyway. So it's like if you're not willing to put in the work in for that, I, I don't know what to tell you. So it's like, I'll figure it out. If people quit at that point, if that's too hard for them, then yeah, for us. You know what I mean?

No, in person, like on an individual basis, like, I so agree with you. Like, like if someone else is dropping out of hunting in Colorado, cuz it made it harder. Like, I'm all about it. Cause it makes it easier for me to go.

Yeah.

However, and this is maybe contradictory to how some people think in the West, I actually, I want a lot of people out there who aren't good hunters because that means less animals are getting taken, they're quitting early, they're not hiking as hard, they're not glassing as hard, and they're just not a threat. Right. Like, I like it when there's dudes out there who don't know what the heck they're doing because I just can hunt better than them. So it is something like, I like it and I hope that people, you know, keep just enjoying a nice vacation out west, like when they're. When they've got a tag in their pocket. So it is a catch 22. But no, I also agree with you, like on an individual, person to person basis, I'm like, yeah, heck yeah. If you're not figuring this out, like, that leaves more opportunity to snag tags too.

Yeah. No, that's funny. I. That's why I kind of like the high country. Well, this year will technically be the first year I'm doing it. It's a long story, but the high country, mule deer hunts, like in Colorado at like 12,000ft. Like, I'm in. I'll go. I mean, everybody else can, you know, try their luck from the road and everything. And it's like, I'll know. I'll. I'll be up there. Yeah, more for us. But anyway. Okay.

And on that point, like, it kind of goes back to what we're talking about of like in this age of every, like a lot of information, you know, in the last five to 10 years being delivered, a lot of those, you know, at least people I've talked to hunted these places a long time. Usually when I'm hunting a place, it's for the first time. Right. And I, I'm terrible. I don't go back to stuff very often unless it's right next to my house. But from people who have like, talked about the changes over time is they're seeing a lot more hardcore guys showing up in these hard to reach places. And it's kind of opened up. And this kind of goes back to what we were talking about with some of the old school tactics. It's really opening up some like, low country. It's opening up some, like places that are near roads that are not getting hunted. Well. And so as this, you know, as a circle, you know, continues to revolve like for instance, I've, I always do a high country hunt or two a year but gosh, I'm spending a lot of time out in the low stuff where it's road less or hard to get to. That doesn't look like, you know, the top of mountain too. It's, it just is all place dependent and situation dependent. But it's kind of fun. Like as, as you hear people doing one thing, you go, they go right, you go left. And sometimes that's where you'll find some interesting opportunities. Just like, like low country elk instead of high timber aspen alpine basin elk, you know, like those are interesting to me right now.

Yeah, true. Especially in Wyoming too because I see like, I don't know, some guys on YouTube that are like putting down these like stud bulls and they're, I mean they're desert elk.

Yeah.

So it's like that's, that is another opportunity there that maybe some people aren't doing.

Yeah.

So. Yeah. And like every, every state is so different. Every unit is so different. So it's like there's no like absolutes I feel like. But yeah, definitely good, good insight there.

But that's also where like when you choose one state and you start digging in, you know, you start looking under the covers of the couches and like how a state manages elk and like flip the thing over and, and realize that there's an opportunity here where it's just non traditional, not what you've seen in primos from the 90s. Like those are some of the coolest and most kind of underutilized hunts, especially just year to year basis. And I think that's like kind of encouraging if someone, if someone has the open mind to say, well I don't have to have this perfect giant aspen valley with like, you know, bulls bugling out of every ridge and draw. Like I'm going to shoot a six point over a wallow. Like you don't. If you can step back from this idealistic romantic like elk hunt but still be like, I want to go have an adventure in some crazy places. That's where there's really a lot of fun opportunity right now, I think.

Yeah, I like that too. If you're, if you're open minded to that, that can definitely be something really, really cool to look into. So like I'm always fascinated when I'm reading like in the Eastman's magazines, like in the Mrs. Sections that I'm going through every state and like they'll do all their, their data of like their harvest rates. And what they call their blue chip units and things like that. And I like to just like, I'm, I'm, I like to read those magazines and I'm looking through that and I'm looking at like the units that they call like their blue chip and stuff. And like I might see like these units they call out in Wyoming. And then like, maybe, okay, maybe I'm at work and I have my work laptop right there and I'm just taking a break. But like, then I'll go to like Google Google Maps and like, I'll drop the guy kind of in that area. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that's like, not. That's like, this is like a desert elk unit. And this is like, has a ton of opportunity here and there's a ton of elk being killed here. So it makes you wonder like, you know, if that's an opportunity that you want to see or you want to check out. There's elk there. That's, that's just like something a little bit too, of like thinking outside the box a little bit.

And I think a lot of people, you know, and you're so good about, you know, you're a fit guy. You're so good about being in shape for coming out west. Like, it's just part of who you are. Yeah. People who, yeah, but people who aren't at that stage. Right. Like, people who are realizing that they got to get off the couch and they've never hiked a, you know, 3,000 foot climb in three miles. Like some of those low country hunts, you know, even in a general unit in Montana or there's some stuff in Colorado that I really like. There's obviously stuff in Wyoming that you're talking about. Those kinds of hunts are really good for people who maybe aren't as physically fit because you're using your glass and you're driving a lot and it's like, it's much more friendly to someone who maybe not be. Might not be elk fit, you know, and hasn't spent the years getting ready for it.

Hey, sorry to interrupt the podcast, but.

I want to make sure that you.

Knew there were two ways to have a really successful hunt this fall.

One is to have been there before, and the second is to build a really good hunt plan with your E Scouting. I can help you with the second part, but don't just take it from me. Here's a bit of a testimonial for one of my clients in the past named Todd, who used our Hunt west services on an elk Hunt in Utah, where neither he or I had been.

Gosh, the. The points that you picked out in that scouting report were just such an important part of this trip. Hayden was able to go to those.

Scouting points at those scouting points located out.

I don't know how you do it, man. You do a good job. Thank you so much. As a result of your good work, we were able to get this bull on the opening day.

If you want to get a hunt session or a hunt plan put together, feel free to reach out to me@jaden huntwest.net okay, let's get back to the show.

You're listening to the Hunt west podcast.

No, that's definitely a good tip there, too, if that's something you want to do. And that's still a challenge, you know, like, it's still like, you're gonna. You're gonna come out. And, like, that doesn't mean just because you're bouncing around a little bit and you're letting your glass do the walk. Like, the walking. That can be an incredibly smart way to hunt, but there's an art to glassing and being in the right places at the right time and which definitely. Which makes it fun. It's still a challenge, is my point.

Yeah, it's just a little unique. I'm going to go back to some of the. Did you know that I write the Eastman's.

Mrs. I knew you did something for Eastman. I didn't know that that's what you wrote, so that's hilarious.

You called it out, and I was.

Kind of like, what?

Wait, I don't think he knew. Or maybe he did, so I knew.

You did something with Eastmans, but I did. I did not know that. Dude, I like it, man. I. I do like it. I have a lot of the, like, magazine. A stack of magazines behind me, and I have a lot of, like, the back pages tabbed like that for, you know, units that I'm like, okay, like, I might hunt there in 2029. Like, you know, that's kind of how you got to be, though, is like, what I found. Like, I got next few years, like, some. Some Plan A, Bs and Cs, but that's just me. That's after you're in the game for a little bit.

Yeah, exactly. And. And honestly, like, the, you know, we started off talking about, like, okay, choose one state. Figure it out, right? And then just like, start there with what opportunities are available in the short term, the next level, you know, like, let's. Let's just say just that's one on one. The 201 level of that is probably to start looking at a five year strategy. Something where you're like, okay, these three states, I can do a rotation between deer, elk and some cases antelope in these three states. Like I can come back and just, you know, hit one a year. And I'm doing that at this point in the game. Like things are always changing. But doing that at this point in the game is a really sustainable and long term plan. Like you can do a five year rotation and keep going and hunting every year to the 301 level where you're like, okay, I've got my bull tags, you know, because we're sticking with elk, right? We've got our bull tags that we're on the rotation with that are opportunity tags. And then you start trickling in states that you're like, well now, you know, I understand that. You know, let's just say Wyoming is a more of a 10 year strategy for me, just cause that's how it fits, you know, that's when you start realizing, okay, well I'm playing this game for long term. And let's say I'm 30 years old, yeah, I'm going to probably hunt Arizona once or twice, you know, but I want to get, when I get to Arizona, dang it, I'm going to know how to hunt out. You know, that's kind of how I'd like to think about expanding that strategy further down.

Yeah, huge. I think maybe the natural progression is like that first year at least this was just for me. I mean like, no, I didn't have it all figured out. Not that I do now, but I know a ton, much more than I did when I started. I didn't have a prolonged strategy. I just wanted to hunt an elk. So I went to Colorado and elk hunted and saw elk, you know, had my opportunities, hunted hard, heard my first elk bugle in the timber, like sub 50 yards and I saw all his cows, but I didn't get a. I didn't see the bull, I didn't get a shot on him. And then that's just when I decided that this is going to be my whole personality now. So then I came back and then that's when I went, okay, I'm going to try to educate myself to graduate to the 201 level and start reading every article and every podcast I can listen to and blah, blah, blah. And then you go down the rabbit hole of building out a strategy. So that's, that's kind of what it looked like for me. So don't feel like you can't go hunt elk this year, like one time and you don't like, have no.

That's exactly right.

Obviously.

Yeah. Vice versa. You don't have to be 10 years into this game for you to go hunt either. You know, it's just. Yeah, there's always a yin and yang, but.

Right.

You know, one thing in all this tag conversation that I never pointed out is there are landowner tags guys can purchase as well. And I know it's not the majority of people who listen to podcasts, like, it's not in their budget, but like, I've run into guys over the years who are like, dude, I just want to go. And I live in Wyoming where there's not landowner tags that guys can buy, but a state like Colorado or Nevada or New Mexico, there are landowner tags. So just, I feel like it wouldn't, it would be an incomplete picture if you didn't mention the fact that like people who save up or just who have the, the budget to do it can go buy unit wide tags and go hunt every year as well. You know, it's, it's a possibility.

Yeah. You know, we don't have to go too far down this rabbit hole, but I really don't even know, like, say somebody is like, okay, no, I, I have, I have the means. I want to, I want to DIY it, but I have the means and I want to buy a landowner tag. I know those prices can vary, but dude, I actually don't know where does one go to buy a landowner tag?

So there's a lot of.

What does that even look like?

This is like other, other folks like Hunt and Fool or Epic Outdoors, they'll have tags to buy. There's a website called Hunter's Domain that offers opportunity to buy tags. I was just looking on Hunter's Domain before our podcast, and for instance, you could get a cow tag for a really good unit, a unit in Colorado that takes eight points to go hunt the first rifle in. You could get that cow tag for that same unit, be hunting the same herds of elk and the same bugle and bulls for $1,000, which, you know, might be steep for some people, but when you're considering all of the things that come into play when you're, when you're coming out west in the first place, like, it really is a pretty, it's a pretty good deal. And then, you know, you'll, you'll look at some places like, let's just say New Mexico 16D, that's like part of the Gila like units. And you can spend up to 22,000 to go do that.

Right.

Like, so think of there being opportunities kind of spread throughout that. And yeah, again, if you're in that boat, you're like, dude, I just don't want to screw with this system, but I want to go just buy a tag and you've got the budget for it. That is a good way to go, dude.

I think that's killer. Especially if you have 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 20, I don't know, elk points. You're not quite there yet, but it's like, gosh, I will go out there and buy a thousand dollar cow tag and learn that unit and maybe you come home with cow and then you're ready for the next year or the year after when you draw, actually draw the tag. You got some things scouted out, I think.

I mean, honestly, I, yeah, you can have guys doing that. I have a lot of people doing that with like a general Wyoming elk tag because it takes, you know, five, six, seven years to draw some of these general tags in Wyoming. But the cow tags are $288 and they don't take points. They're in a completely random draw. A lot of them are easy to get. And you know, like, I love advising on a guy who's like, hey, I just want help learning this elk unit. I'm about to draw my general and I want to go kill a cow this year while I'm learning it. It's such like a, it's just great, like that person to bring it full circle, man. That person is invested in the craft and they're invested in like learning a place and getting to know it. And they just almost across the board have way more success than someone who just rolls in with a bull tag for the first time and hopes to get it done in five days.

Yeah, I, that's what I was thinking that I bet that guy's going to come back successful. Like, you know, that's the thing. He'll probably get his cow and then he'll. He's has a very much better chance than getting the bull too. So that's really cool because it, it is crazy. Even in the last, like, I remember starting when I started buying points and hunting the west, I mean, I took Corey Jacobson's Elk 101 and all that and I remember talking to other guys that had hunted the west and it was like, yeah, 1.1 year. Maybe, maybe your second year, you should get your General bull tag. But now it's yeah, five, six. And then when I'm even talking to people now and they're like, okay, where should I buy points? And it's like, well, Wyoming's five or six. But you have to think you start now at zero in five, six years.

What's exactly right, man?

Eight or nine.

And that again, you know, just goes back to what is, what are each agency, are the agencies doing in the next five to 10 years? It's helpful to be. Have a little bit insider knowledge. Right. Like, I know in Wyoming as, as an example, we've got growing elk herds. People want to see more elk killed. And if you're someone who's looked at the east side of the state, you'll realize like, okay, well, maybe there is going to be more opportunity out there. And as I'm, as I'm building that strategy, right, like as you're looking down the road, it's like, well, crap, I think I can get an east side bull tag. I'm gonna go out in three years or two years, depending on which draw you go into. Like, then you can really revise and start cow elk hunting. Start talking to landowners and trying to knock on doors while you're out there. Cow elk hunting and build some relationships and start learning local intel while you're out there. That's. That's a huge piece of the equation.

Yeah, for sure. I think, you know, I think it's all good stuff. I want to get back to real quick our, our scenario with our guy here. So we talked about elk, we talked about Colorado. We explained to the guy that you can't, you can, you can try to pick one up in the leftover. That that's an option. But the archery tags have now gone to a draw, which is still easy. You just kind of got to do your homework in April if you want those, those units. But it's July, August, they still want to go. And it's like, okay, well, I can. I see these rifle seasons have over the counter tags. So Colorado, want to get an elk tag? I want to go now. It's July. I don't, you know, I'll, I'll figure it out. When. What's, what's the question here? I'm trying to ask when am I going and what am I looking for? As far as, you know, I'm going to start looking at maps and anything like that. Like what's, what's kind of first things I'm looking at. Maybe not even like elk related, but if I'm looking at a map of a big piece of public land and I want to hunt. Okay. Like, I, I do want to hunt. I want a mountain experience in Colorado. Hunting them over the counter rifle. I'm looking at, I got my out of state 1x elite membership now, and I'm looking at Colorado. What are some things I should be looking for? What are some things I should be avoiding?

First of all, you have the choice in Colorado between the second rifle season and the third rifle season. The idea here is the second rifle season, the elk, you know, might be more on national forest before they get pushed out by weather and hunting pressure down into the low country that is predominantly private land. Uh, the third rifle season is going to be later in November, and you're going to have more chance for weather, which gets elk up and feeding and moving and might be better for seeing them. But you basically have to think about how pressure has changed their habits and, like, the nasty holes that they're going to get into. The other really effective way to be thinking about Colorado is to break it down between, like, okay, I can either go like as far back or like, deep as I can to try to get into elk that have been unpressured on public land. Or, you know, I can use hunting pressure to my advantage. And then lastly, you can use private land to your advantage. And by that I mean, and I think this is a strategy that a lot of people may not be be drawn to because you're, you're riding the line and you're using ONX to make sure that the elk are in fair game. But essentially what will happen in a lot of places is elk. Well, and deer. But in this case, elk will feed on private and they'll be out there feeding in the open and everyone will be like, God dang it, like, this sucks. Like, all the elk are out there in that second rifle season in particular, you may still find that they're betting on public and coming down into fields to feed. And so working backwards from that and seeing like, okay, this, this corner, back behind this private, you know, is going to take me 1, 2 hours to hike into and get back into that backside. Guys are looking at these elk from the highway, but they're not realizing they're spending time on public on the other side of it. So that's a really creative way to start unlocking some. Some places to hunt. Then you have the other side of the equation where it's like, okay, the steep and deep type guy. When you're doing that, man, all I would be Looking at is like, okay, where are horse guys able to get to? And you know, where are some, where are some holes that look like I'm going to have to pack this sucker back up a drainage, back down the next one and out two or three miles like it is, it is usually some nasty stuff.

Literally the spots where it's like, I don't know how we get one out there. That's where you got to go.

Both of those, like largely like we were talking about, like need some fitness, right? And then the other option is to find a good glassing knob that you know is like in a migration corridor. You might sit at that glass knob and this is for the guy who's not as fit. You might sit at that glassy knob for three days and not see any elk in the, in the area you want to kill them in. But what you're waiting for is either good weather, good storm that's going to push bulls out of the high country, or you're waiting for other hunters to push them back, you know, by you down the drainage. And again, like that strategy can feel like, not as attractive to most people, but it's like one of the tools in the toolbox, you know, that you can use. If it was opening day and I, I knew that all these people were camped up on this ridge and they were going to start pushing elk and it was roadless between me and them and they're going to push those elk on the private. Dude, I'd be sitting right on that canyon where those elk are going to funnel through because I know all those side by sides and ATVs and RV trailers that they hauled up to the top are going to provide hunting pressure that pushes them down. So using those kinds of, you know, elk behavior knowledge is going to help you create a game plan that makes sense for your physical abilities and what you're looking for.

Gotcha. I like it. Okay, so let's keep going. Guy says, all right, man. I listen to the Hunt west podcast, I listen to Run the Rack podcast. I want to be like one of these hardcore guys. We're hardcore here. I want to, I want to backpack in and we'll say it's second season rifle Colorado elk. And we got, he's going with, you know, his brother in law and his buddy from work and they got seven days and they're thinking they want to, they want to backpack in. Maybe they, they want to do, they haven't done this before. Maybe they want to do three days in and then they'll come out For a day. Maybe go pack in three days somewhere else. So staying flexible. But they like, they want to be, you know, they want to bet. They want to backpack hunt in the mountain. There's whole platforms on backcountry gear, so we don't have to get into all that. But say the guy, like, they've done a little bit of research, but they see a ton of influencer marketing and they feel like they need to spend a billion dollars just to. Just to go hunt an elk. What would you say are three items where it's like, all right, dude, you don't need all the best shit, but here's three things where you might want to allocate your money and like, not skimp on. What would you say those three items are?

So we're just talking season rifle right now, right? Because it's going to shift just a little bit. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. This second season rifle El Colorado.

So end of October, I would want a. A TP tent with a stove. I don't know if let's call that one item for the sake of the argument. The more that you can stay comfortable while you are out there, the better hunter you're going to be. And on top of that, like, the more you're going to be able to sit behind the glass and just like pick apart country. You know, in particular, we're talking Colorado. So that usually means, like, you're going to be on a high point. You're only on a big ridge that overlooks canyon or a big basin, and you're going to need a really good tripod with a bino adapter. That'd be the next thing. So you're going to want to be able to be seated and pick in a park country and just trying to find these bulls that are broken off from the herd Oftentimes. I think people forget in second season Colorado that the majority of the rut hunting has occurred. The cows have basically separated from the mature bulls, and most people are looking for the elk instead of an elk. Your tag's only good for one, boys. So, like, you got to go find one bull that is broken off by himself. And that takes a lot of work behind the optics. So again, you want your tipi tent so you can warm up, you can. You can dry stuff out. And then you want really good tripod so you can put your binos on there and be glass and really strong. And then the last piece of that is, like, have some really good puffy gear, some good layering equipment, but like in particular, a big puffy jacket. Because I don't know how many times it's been like I hiked my butt into this place. I'm sweating. It's only 20 degrees out, but I'm just pouring sweat. And then as soon as I sit down to glass, I start shivering, man. And like as soon as you start shivering, you lose focus and you lose your motivation to stay in the glass and do what the do the things you got to do to find an elk in those late seasons. So that would be the three.

Dude. Yeah, I think I love the puffy jacket answer. That's, that's my big thing. I don't go on any trip. Even if it's like, dude, I like to do like some summer backpacking and stuff. I still bring a lightweight like down puffy on those always puffy jacket. I look at that as more of like even like a safety item.

Yeah.

Because if like shit hits the fan, I got that puffy jacket. And then late season, dude, I got that Kafaru lost parka. That thing has like saved me. That thing is like an oven.

Yeah.

But yeah, I'm big. Always, always puffy jacket.

I do a lot of guiding and late season elk hunts in, in Wyoming and I've ended up adding a lot of the puffy pants too. I've got the lost park pants as well.

Yeah.

And dude, that's a lifesaver. You know, especially as you're either sometimes depending on the tripod, you're they're sitting in the ground because it's most stable or it's windy or whatever, you just get cold. So sustain warm when you're not hiking. I think the big misconception about these late season elk hunts is that you're hiking all day long. And dude, I bet you I only do 2 to 4 miles max in a good late season elk hunt because you're getting in there in the dark and then you're posting up. Right. So you're sweating your butt off in the dark, getting to where you need to be and then you're, you're, you're parking it for the majority of the the day as you are glass in the morning, in the evening in particular.

Yeah, I think I did a lot more hiking early on, but that was more out of my own ignorance probably looking back, like definitely should at least waited a lot longer in the mornings and settled down earlier in the evenings behind. Behind the glass. Yeah.

But that's also come like again, bring it, bring it back to what we're talking about. The old school tactics is if you're in a place where guys are posted up on these big glass and knobs and they're doing the thing that we're just talking about, and you got snow. Then go back to some of the roots of like tracking elk, still hunting, and you can, you know, or let's say you don't have this gear, you don't have a good puffy or whatever the case is, then go back to those old school tactics where you're moving super slow and picking apart timber that's really hard to glass that's hard to get a good vantage point on. So that is one of the things that I think every time that you have a ying, you've got a yang to it, right? Like, yeah, always whenever you see that elk go over the ridge, you're sitting there and you're like, God, I can't look into that from here. It's like, well, go get him. Like, he's not going to get himself, so you got to go chop it up and pull another tool out of the toolbox.

Yeah, that's how I. That's how I got my mule deer in Colorado in 2023. Still hunting in the timber. I was like, this glassing thing isn't going to work in. In just that environment where I was in, things were just thick, weren't turning much up. And yeah, I killed a. I mean, he. It's the one back here. I mean, He's. He's a 4x4. I mean, he's no Boone and Crockett, but it was like, yeah, that's. I think it's like, it's like anything, dude. Like any craft, it's like, okay, here's like some rules of thumbs at a high level. But then you gotta, like, get out there and start breaking the rules. Obviously, if things aren't working and there's no absolute. So you gotta always try to like, be fluid with everything.

Yeah, yeah, I will say, like, you know, and going back to like this guy we're just like talking to. Who's this? His first trip out or first couple trips out. I do think it's important to get good at one style. Like, find the thing that you're good at if you're not in the best physical condition. And you can't just crush out 10, 15, 20 mountain miles in a day. Like, okay, don't. Don't be out here running every ridge that you find, because you're going to not. You're not going to keep in the game. Same thing if you're just. If you're like us, right? We're like fit. We like to move. Like, yeah, man, maybe glassing isn't the number one tactic. Or doing it all day long isn't the number one tactic.

Maybe do what you like.

Yeah.

Kind of keep you out there.

Exactly, man. I mean, as long as you're not in the Airbnb or in your side by side or in the rv, like, you know, stay, stay out there and doing stuff and that's gonna just alone. That'll increase your chances massively.

Yeah. Let's go the other way real quick on gear. So there's three things where it's like, hey man, I would probably invest in that. But what are maybe not even three. Maybe you can just think of even if just one or two or three. If you can think of it of like the guy says, like, hey dude, I saw this on the Internet. Like I think I'm going to, you know, spend the money here. Is there any items where it's like, dude, you could probably get by with what you have for, for xyz? Does anything come to mind there?

Yeah, the first one that pops out to my mind is like hunting specific clothing. Like I did and I still do. I have this great mountain hardware fleece that I wear a lot because it's just a good piece of gear. It's good to pine green color and it works great. And I really like it now of course, like as you can afford it and like as you move down the line, like, you know, you add in the hunting specific brands. Like I totally get that. But gosh, I just feel like that's the first place that people start wasting money instead of putting it into the things that make them a better hunter, you know. And on the other side of that, I think that there's a lot of different. It's probably just dependent on the person as to what they, they are spending their money too much on. You know, probably rifle and weapons like are a place that people are spending way too much money and like they think they got to have the highest, highest end flat of shooting latest cartridge. And it's like, dude, let's just stick with the.270 or.30 06 and let it rip. Like, like don't, don't feel like you have to overthink those things, you know?

Yeah, I think those were the couple things I was thinking of too. Especially like I have a lot of the Sitka gear. I think when I started I probably bought a few extra pieces than I really needed. It's nice now though, because I mean the gear is great and it works and. But I'm not, I can't tell you, last time I bought, you know, a piece of siki gear, like, you know, I'm just, I just been keeping all that the whole time. So yeah, it's, I'm a little bit like, okay, at least I bought it then and that's it. But looking back, it's like, yeah, I probably could have got away with, with a little bit less. But I do like the puffy jacket thing. I think having a puffy jacket is.

Key for sure, man. I'll come up. I came up with one more. Just sitting here.

Go ahead.

The other, the last thing that I think a lot of people like say they have to have is either a side by side or a four wheeler. And I oftentimes will recommend if someone has them to bring them, but usually what happens is like, if you do that, you end up relying on it all the time to just drive around all day. And dude, for the first, for the first little bit of me hunting like on my own, like, you know, late high school, early college, I was driving a freaking Volkswagen Jetta. Like, like just get, get someplace where you can start hiking. Like that is a much, that is a much more important feature than it is to make sure you have every whiz bang, like side by side off road vehicle thing that you can afford. So that's someplace I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't ball out. Just because you're gonna start hunting the west there.

Okay, that's a good answer too. Because when you do it like how you said too, you're gonna see more shit. Like, if you wanna. Yeah, because I could see that scenario. It's like, dude, I bought this razor and like we're out here with it. Like, I don't even want to go hike up there. Let's just keep whipping around in this thing. And it's like, sure, dude, you could probably cover a lot of country in that thing and that might be really cool, but you know, don't let it take away from you. Like hiking around and seeing some cool shit too.

Yeah. And it is super helpful. Like if you have the discipline to do both. Yes, it's going to like totally open up more country for you. But if you haven't, and we're just talking about first couple of trips, like, and it's. You got to haul a trailer and pull it around in the snow and do all those things, like late season. Yeah, I would, I would opt against it in a lot of cases for a new guy.

Gotcha. Okay, so here's our guy. He's like, all right, Jaden. We went out there like we're going and like they go and you know, they had a hell of a time. They saw some elk. They're addicted. Okay, maybe the brother in law killed a raghorn. And they're just like, this is the coolest thing ever. And we're, and we're, and we're doing this like we want to be one of them guys. Like, you know, so they come back and they start looking at, you know, they, they, they're reading Eastman's, they're looking at the Mrs. They're looking on hunt and fool and like all these things. And it's like they're now being like, okay, I want to learn, I want to be more of a student. But they do want to pick your brain on like, okay, I don't need every state, but I want to start building a little bit of a portfolio. And they love elk. So it's like, okay, we just came back from our first elk hu. We want to start looking at other opportunities for the next three, four, five years. At least that's what they can wrap their head around. What are a few states where you think are just good jumping off points to start getting in the game?

Yeah, I think in any combination of states for an elk hunter, Colorado has got to be in there somewhere because they offer all the different types of opportunity and at different point levels. Like you can, you can go on a first season rifle elk hunt with no points. You can spend years waiting for a really good archery tag. Like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of variability in Colorado. So I like that as, like, as a big option, main option. The next one that usually follows behind that at this stage in the game was Montana because it's a relatively easy state. You know, one, two years of applying, you could be lucky like me and get a tag the first year you apply because there's a random element to it. And then the last one was probably Idaho for that. Like short term. You're gonna have to figure out what is happening with the. Not the, the non resident draw used to be a first come, first serve system, but that system was whacked. You could still get tags in it, but it was, it was really hard. And now it's moving to a draw system and that opens up in December. So this is the first year of it, so I can't really tell you any details about it because there's, there's none like we don't know yet.

Ask you if you saw really anything come out? I haven't seen anything since that. They said this is the year it's going to. They're going to do it.

Yeah, I just remember it was like mid December is when your applications are due and then January is when they're going to come out. I've been tracking how fast tags sell out the last three years. So I'll have like a. I have a spreadsheet that I've just been sitting online whenever either I'm waiting to get a tag or I just am watching it for my own sake. And I've got that spreadsheet so hopefully I'll have an idea of which ones are going first in the draw. But yeah, that's the other state that I would add to the kind of the list especially. Cause it's going to be so quick of a turnaround to find out if you need to apply in other states.

Yeah. And that Idaho is so tough set up like that. I wonder if they'll let you do this when it's a draw. But trying to hunt with another guy because it was first come, first serve and you just so. But basically you get thrown in a queue and you could be number 2,000 or 60,000 and you know, you could be screwed. And it's totally random. But not to give away like where I'm going or what I'm doing, but like couldn't believe it. My buddy and I from Pennsylvania here, they're like, let's just try. We log on and we were fairly close together and not too far down the ranks and we both got in. Well, I got in first and he was right behind me and there were some elk tags. So we, we felt like I was like, dude, we really lucked out. Like two guys non residents getting the same elk zone. So that's what, that's what's on my docket for September. But yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, we're. We're stoked.

But are those archery tags? Are you guys gonna raffle hunt? Okay.

They're archery tags. Yeah. I actually have two tags. I'm hunting the first. Basically call it the first half of September for Colorado archery deer backpacking up in the high country. And then I'm bouncing to Idaho to hunt basically the last two weeks with this elk tag. So I got most all. My work vacation is in September and I got most September off. Yeah.

Good for you, man. Oh, that's exciting. Yeah. You're going to have no matter what happens? You're going to have a hell of an adventure, so that's always fun.

Oh, dude. Absolutely. So, okay. I love the advice there. We got some direction for our guy. He's going to start building points and just. I kind of tell people, too. It's like, it's like anything, dude. Like, if you want to be, like, if you want to get in shape and stuff, like, it's kind of got to be part of your. A little bit. Like, of your lifestyle a little bit. Like, when you're just like. Like me going to the gym, it's like brushing my teeth or like going for a run. Like, just exercise. It's just something that I do. So it's like with hunting, you want to, like, learn how to hunt the west more and just become more of a student. It's like, I don't know, when you're driving around, like, with, like, at work all day, like, throw on a podcast. Like, that's just kind of how I do it. Like, I'm just like, oh, here's a new Eastman's Elevated, or here's a new Go Hunt or whatever. And it's just like, you're just constantly kind of flowing and keep learning.

Yep, that's.

That's my advice.

That's exactly right, man. That's. If there's one thing people take away from it, it's like, yeah, I would just be a student of the game. And you'll realize the stuff's a lot easier than.

Yeah.

Than your buddy down the street makes it out to be.

Yeah, for sure. And so I guess I did want to ask, like, one more question. So I think. I think it was really great like, that. I've seen that scenario play out like a ton where guys, like, I don't know anything. I don't know what to do. I'd say if you listen to this episode, kind of walk you through, like a real world example of how you can go this year, giving a lot of good information and then setting yourself up for future years in a very. It's a very practical way. Everything we said can be done even now. And it's July, it's after application season. You can do everything we said, like, starting now. The question I did want to ask, though, you work with a lot of guys planning a lot of hunts especially, I'd imagine, for non residents. What are like, the common failures you see with guys when they come out of their hunt and you follow up with them? You know, you tried to put them in the right direction and maybe they Got on elk, maybe they didn't. It's probably hard to tell, like, you know, how much effort they put in. You know, it's probably hard to measure. But just listening to hear people follow up with you, that did run into failures. What are kind of those commonalities?

You see, I think the number one thing is usually that they are running behind schedule. I have this joke that I tell a lot of my guys. I'm like, did you know Bob Seeger was an elk hunter? Because he wrote that song, Night Moves about elk hunting. And it's like. It's like the idea was just to make something stick in their brains to be like, look, if you're not moving at night, to get into position for first light.

Dude, I love this.

Yeah, you. You're losing out on it. Doesn't matter how dang good the spot is. You're not there when the elk are visible, not when they're up on their feet and able to be like, got. That's a huge, huge piece of it. And it works. It's the same with mule deer, for sure. If you're not there on time, then you're definitely. It doesn't matter the spot. Like, you're just not hunting it effectively. I think that's something that people will get frustrated by if they're not on time. Some of that comes down to, like, the giving yourself ample time to hike in places or just drive a new road. And so, like, a lot of that starts with earlier planning. Like, okay, well, I'm going to be changing to go to a new trailhead at 10pm not at 4am Because I don't know how long it's going to take for me to get there. That's a really important approach. Change. And then after that, usually the number one failures is fitness. People will just say, that dang thing ate my lunch and spat it out back at me. The mountain. The mountain doesn't hold back. Like, you will have to find out where your limits are. You know, every time you go on a lot of these hunts. And so that's. That's huge. And almost every time someone's come out for the first trip out west, they've gone back home and said, like, God, I gotta change my diet and I gotta work out harder. Like, that's just a common theme. Yeah, I think really those two things are really the top two that I run into.

Okay. I love. I love both those. The first one, yeah. Is key. Like, I. I heard my baseball coach say this in high school, and I've been Saying it like for these western hunts, like, this is a game of seconds. Like baseball is like a long slow game that takes hours, but it's a game of seconds. Like back backcountry hunting, you know, it might be a week and like there's hours behind the glass. It feels like it takes forever, but like it's a game of seconds. Like I've, I've learned that in the sense of like, yeah, you could be in the spot, but if you're not at the glassing spot before light or for first light or at the right times to glass, et cetera, you might as well not even be in the spot. And then also too, like, that's how I like to look at gear a lot is like, okay, this water filtration system, like how fast am I going to be screwing with this thing for an hour to fill up like 3 liters? Like I want like the most fast dialed system that obviously like still works where I'm getting water and it's not like this big chore that I don't want to do it or I have to like, you know, I don't want the temptation of like leaving my glassing spot early to go down to the creek to make sure I give myself enough time. Like I use it. I mean, people can say what they want. I use a stair pen, I keep my bottle right on my hip. I fill that thing up and in 60 seconds I got a leader. And I, and I keep moving. On this bear hunt I just did in Idaho, we spent a couple days, we only glassed up one bear and we, it was 10 or 11 o' clock at night, we're all back at camp and the guys were like, yeah, we're, we're moving now. And because we want to get into this other spot at first light, like the next day. We only had like five hunting days. And I was like, hell yeah. Like, because I know how, like that's how this game works. Like you only have so many mornings and evenings and you need to be at those right spots at those times. Not that you can't, you know, still hunt midday and in the late season and try to kill mule deer or a bull. But you know, obviously your mornings and evenings are money. So I like, I like that you said that. And then the fitness thing, of course, yeah, dude, it's huge. And people can say what they want about, you know, the elk shape and like watching Cam Haynes and like the mountain tough platforms. But it's like, and somebody will always say, well, like, well I know so, and so he's out of shape and he kills an elk every year. And it's like, okay, well you're also promoting a healthy lifestyle.

Yeah.

So I don't, I never really understood the people that like to talk shit on some of that stuff. But it's also, it's only going to help you because more often than not you hear the stories of the guys that come back, they want to change. And I hear them from like being from back east, back here, they want to make a change and it turns into like, not just for the hunt, but it's like a lifestyle change. And how awesome is that? That you have a craft that changes your day to day habits the other 11 and a half months out of the year. That's pretty cool in my opinion.

Yeah, dude, I always say that same thing and it's really cool. So my girlfriend and all her family are super fit people. Like we were just out on a vacation with them and there was like 70 year olds jumping off of the top of these bridges into the water. Like they're super stoked and none of them hunt. And it was really cool. It was a good reminder. I was like, oh yeah, you don't have to hunt to be fit. And actually a matter of fact, it probably. Hunting shouldn't be the first reason that you're, you're fit. There's a lot of other, there's a lot of really good reasons, whether you just want health and longevity or like, you know, just a happier, healthier life until you get old. But then you add in the hunting equation and it's like, all right, buddy, this thing will show you real quick how you need to make some changes. All of that being said, I do want, I want a person who's dialed like you're talking about dialed with their gear and is on time at the glassing knob or back into the basin where they're bugling for elk. I'll take a guy who's on time and out of shape over a dude who's really fit but slips, sleeps in 10 days out of the, or like 100 days out of the, you know, like every day and then some. So that is important and something to, you know, people who are maybe on the journey to get healthier or do their whole thing. Like, it doesn't mean that you can't go out and hunt and have a good time. You just have to also grade yourself on a curve. And if you're, if you're not doing three miles an hour on a trail, you're Doing one that's just going to really cut down the amount of time you have to sleep.

Right? Yeah, it's. Something's going to give, and you want to make sure you're not giving that prime time, behind the glass, et cetera. Dude, I think this was an awesome podcast. We'll wrap up here. Where can people find you and your stuff and the Hunt west podcast, I think we're doing like a twofer here, so I want to make sure, you know, but I'm. But I'm plugging you too, so where can people find the Hunt west podcast? Because this will obviously air on my podcast too.

Yeah, it's just called like the Hunt west podcast on podcast app and. And Spotify and wherever else you like to download your. Your shows. You can also kind of keep up with what we have going on on Instagram because I'm usually pretty steady posting on there. And it's just Hunt West Planning company and my personal is just Aiden Bale. So try to keep it simple for everybody. And if anyone has questions, they don't have to hire me to just ask a simple question. So, you know, feel free to. Feel free to shoot me a dm. And I'm happy to help people out, just like, get them pointed in the right direction because I've had people in my hunting history that have done the same for me, and I'm happy to just kind of pay it forward. So I think a lot of people hesitate to reach out to me because they're like, well, he does this for a. And I'm like, no, dude. Like, there's a lot of.

If I ask you this.

Yeah, exactly. I'm not a lawyer. Like, your clock doesn't start as soon as I read the message. Yeah.

So that's cool.

Yeah, we'll just love to connect with anybody who wants some help coming out West. I happy to help.

Yeah. And if they want to dive further into the Hunt west planning company that just. Just hit you up via your DMs.

Yeah, you can. Of course you can go to my website, Hunt west planning.com if you want. But yeah, yeah, also just hit me up and you can ask me questions there, too.

Awesome, dude. Well, sounds great, man. I appreciate your time. Like I said, I think this was an awesome episode for a real practical way to get out and hunt the west for the first time. Yeah, dude, really enjoyed the chat.

Yeah, me too, man. And hey, you're doing a ton of awesome work inspiring people, motivating people, and putting out some good information. So same to you just keep. Keep on keeping on, man. You're doing great, dude.

I appreciate it.

No problem, man.

All right, dude, I'll let you go. All right, everybody, thanks for. For listening. We'll catch you on the next one. See you, dude.

Later.

Thank you for listening to the Hunt west podcast. If you like what you heard today, the best compliment you can give is to share the show with a friend. We will see you on the next episode.

Episode. And we hope one day to see you Hunt West.