How to Make a Hunting Plan: A Real Hunt West Session

Foreign. To the Hunt west podcast, here's your host, Jaden Bales. What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hunt west podcast. This one's going to be a little bit different for you today. A few weeks ago, well, maybe a couple months ago now, I sat down with my friends Tony and Sam and helped them e scout, a unit that they're looking at hunting. They are both residents of Colorado, and they're kind of newer into the big game hunting, but they're good outdoorsmen and they ask some great questions. And there was a bunch of questions that, you know, they'd kind of queued up for me before we ever started this session. But I wanted to give you a taste of what a Hunt west plan or a Hunt west session really looks like. These things are more about teaching people how to do this stuff than it is about just giving them a honey hole. And I think that's an important misconception that people might have or maybe a hesitation before contacting me to work is they don't want honey holes. And that's not the point of this whole program. The idea is to really give folks a framework, give folks a game plan and a way to think about each of their hunts so that they can go out and find places that are their own, that are their unique and good habitat. Good hunting away from other folks and providing them with the experience that they're really looking for. Each unit is going to be a little bit different. And for the most part, man, I've never even been to the vast majority of the units that we end up talking about. However, couple up a really good game plan with some good research, some good Internet digging. We really are pretty dang good at developing a game plan that keeps people in animals, you know, whether or not they get one, that ends up being up to the hunter themselves. You know, there's a lot of factors that go into whether someone can be successful on a hunt, but I think by listening to today's episode, you're going to get a really good feel of what it looks like when we sit down and work together. Basically, it's just giving folks an idea of how to hunt more than it is just a place, you know, And I'm really excited to share this with you for that reason. The other thing is a lot of this is basically just a recorded zoom session. So there's a lot of things that we talk about that I'm describing and kind of showing them on zoom using onyx. But really, I hope that you just pick out from this episode, some of the things that are constant, you know, aspects of terrain, constant features in a unit or in a hunt area that I'm looking at and I'm helping people build game plans around. It's definitely not a one size fits all kind of operation. These guys are really physically fit. They're fine with backpacking, they're fine with big day hunts, and they live in Colorado. Right. So they don't have to deal with going from sea level to 12,000ft to acclimate before they, you know, like our buddy Matt got high altitude pulmonary edema. These guys probably are not at risk of that, you know, so there's some logistics here that are unique to them. But I think overall, I hope you understand that this session that we broke down really is just the game plan for people who are looking for places to hunt. And I get it if you can't afford working together with me, sitting down one on one and building something that's unique to you and, and your hunting situation, I totally understand. And I still want this upcoming podcast to be really helpful for you. So that's really why we're putting it out, is to give you all an idea of the thought process and the tactics that are going into putting together a really good game plan. So without further ado, I'm going to launch into this session that we did with my friend Anthony and my other friend Sam about an elk unit in Colorado that they're looking at getting into. So I hope you enjoy the show for today. I figured I would just basically walk you all through kind of the game plan for figuring out where elk are in September. And it's kind of like, like it's a, basically like a low key class session. Right. Particular with this unit, I'm kind of. I'm more happy to use a unit that takes some points to get because then not every. It's not like an over the counter where everybody's just like flooding to it or whatever based on what I say. Yeah.

And I, I chose this unit because it's one that I've always been interested in and the statistics look pretty cool and it's just a really cool area, but I've never hunted it, so I'm. I don't feel like super threatened, but I do have. I do want to hunt it in the next few years.

Cool. You boys ready to dive into this? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, sweet. So before we even dive into Onyx, I think part of the things that people really forget when they start e scouting is like what do the animals need that time of year? Right, for the, like, the vast majority of people looking at like a September or early October elk hunt, that means they're going to be looking for cows because the bulls are with cows. And then you have to think like, okay, well, what do cows need? Well, cows need to, like, not get shot or eaten. But mostly cows need really good feet because they've got all these babies that are running around in the herd with them, and they have to feed themselves, and they got to feed their babies that are with them. The other piece of that, like, with the rut. And I think it's like kind of more of a feature of just cows in general, but also a feature of the rut. Maybe don't know what's first, the chicken or the egg, but you generally want some flat places. And they love, like, elk seem to love rutting on flat ground, but when you think about that, people kind of like look too big. And then you're like, ah, this is a huge giant flat. And I'm like, well, that's not necessarily what they need. They need like, you know, maybe an acre or two, like kind of a smaller zone where they can run around and do their thing. And that can be built into a timbered slope, or it can be a meadow at the bottom of a slope or, you know, the top of a ridge, whatever the case is. And when it's flat, you know, some of these places, like elk don't live in flat country. So flat. Flat is also relative, right? Maybe in one unit. And a flat spot is like a 20 degree slope instead of a 40 degree slope. Where others, it's like actual crick bottom and it's flat. So you kind of have to grade it on the curve, but depending on what unit you're looking at. And then like the last P feature of that, like, obviously they have to have water. But man, as I'm finding out in Wyoming and stuff, like these dry units, they need water, but they can travel a mile or two a day, like to go get it or to go get good feed. So also you have to grade on that curve. Like, if it's a unit that has a whole pile of water everywhere. Mandy, I don't know how well you can really, like hone in on that. But if it's something where it's like a limited resource, then it, you know, gradually gets more and more important. And like, again, on the back side of that is like, where are they not getting molested by hunters? Um, and in particular, you know, cow hunters. Aren't necessarily the ones you're worrying about. It's like the people with bull tags. And we find this even in the units that are hard to draw with like limited licenses. Like hunter pressure just like makes elk move into different zones. Like it doesn't have to be that far necessarily, but it has to have some sort of barrier to entry. And so looking for like a micro barrier to entry, whether it's a creek crossing and then a big like 500 foot climb, thousand foot climb, or the inverse, it's walking out on a ridge and then dropping down a thousand feet. Like those are the things that you lose people a lot, like really quickly. I think especially in Colorado, any trail system, I just almost treat it like it's a road because I'm like, not only are there hunters using those trail systems, but there's just like hikers using these trail systems. So I think back in the day, people used to be like using those trails, get in the back country and then there's just animals everywhere. But now there's enough recreational traffic and hunter traffic in the backcountry. You kind of have to think of those differently than you used to. And obviously it like depends on the state. Right. Like Wyoming, you don't have as many hikers and trail runners like just bobbing around the mountains as you do in Colorado. But I mean, still, depending on what part of the state you're in, you're going to get more or less of those. It's actually one of the reasons why I like, I like some of the uglier like low country units lately because at least you know, you're not going to get a ton of hiker traffic. You might end up with a bunch more people buzzing around on their side by sides, but for the most part, yeah, you can filter for that pretty quickly. So does that all make sense as far as like kind of the setup of like what you're looking for, Getting into it?

Are you.

You're anchoring on finding cows just because bull behavior changes, changes so much throughout the rut. Yeah.

And for the most part, you know, I think that's another good point. The goal would be in this case to be thinking about how can I get into rut activity? Because that's fun. That's like part of the experience. And the goal is to find a mature bull or just like find a bowl to chase. It's not like you're trophy hunting necessarily. I think you can shift your game plan a little bit if you're trophy hunting like the big bulls Are not going to be with the cows in the first week of September most of the time. And then you're going to see them kind of peter out first, I feel like towards the end of September, early October. So if you're just looking for a nice bowl, you're looking for a herd bowl. Somebody who's one of those elk that's being vocal and, like, playing the game. This is kind of the strategy for that for the entire month of September.

Yeah, that's helpful.

Yeah. But if you're looking for a big one, obviously, like, you know, probably I'm not. I'm probably not the guy talking to him because, like, I'm still learning too, you know, that takes a new level of. Of time and commitment and knowledge of a place that's right.

Yeah.

Okay. So with all that kind of prefaced, we can kind of dive into the E Scouting. I think one of the things before you get into it, too, is, like, we kind of talked about this weird dichotomy of micro spots where they, like. But you also. It's nice to put together a bunch of little micro spots to be able to hit in a row, either hiking or hit them all from a glassing knob. So, like, if you've got the head of a basin that all, you know, has four or five zones that look good, it'd be really nice to see all of those zones at one time. So linking those together is kind of maybe more of where the art comes in and where grading on your physicality can come in. Because obviously, if you're someone who just can't, like, cover 10 miles in a day and it's all thick timber, you got to think about things differently than if you're, you know, Sam Davis or somebody who, like, can pound the hills and not get tired. So that's a. That's a different part of the game. So for this example, though, like, I mean, we're just gonna take standard in shape enough to get everywhere they need to go, but also, like, gonna wear out. And you need to be smart with, like, packouts too, especially September. It's like your time does. You know, your clock starts ticking once you get them on the ground. So you don't want them on the ground for three days as you're trying to pack this thing out. So you gotta be cautious of that. I will say, when you're e Scouting, I think it's worthwhile to be thinking about those temperatures. And if you're someone who's, like, solo elk hunting, you don't have any pack out help. Maybe you start high on the mountain, right? Because if you're up there at the top, you're going to get 40 or 30 degree nights. And you can keep it in the shade where it's 50 degrees in the daytime. And that's going to buy you a lot more time to get it out than if you're down in the low stuff and you're just like, it's 80 degrees every day, coolest of 60 degrees at night. And you're like, holy crap, this is a. This is. I got to work all night to keep it edible. Does that make sense?

Yep.

Cool. All right, let's dive into this unit. Now, I really like this unit that we're going to go over today because it is kind of the classic. It's like the classic elk unit. So I like all three things about this. Like, there's private land that's going to create some sanctuary zones. There's some lower country, especially down here on the south end of the unit, that creates, like a different type of topography, some places where people might not be looking. And then you have just your classic big mountain. Right? Like, the high stuff tends to be where people are drawn to, especially if they're like a physically fit hunter. And for good reason. Like the elk, I think in one of these classic units just tend to gravitate towards the top because that's where the best feed. There's consistent water and generally can be less, you know, and this is where Colorado is a little different. There can generally be less recreational traffic up there, but you kind of have to grade it on that trail curve. Like, where's the trails at where people drive and. And that's. And that's where Colorado, I think, really screws with guys. And they get up into that high stuff and it's like they're their first game plan, or their only game plan, for that matter. And once they find it's loaded with recreational people or they're loaded with other hunters, they just like, lose their marbles. They're like, I don't. I'm. I'm done. Like this. The unit sucks. I'm like, dude, there's still two thirds of the unit to look at. Like, what? Just because. Just because one segment of this place is got more people and less elk than you're wanting it to be. There's all sorts of other parts of it. I think people kind of get romantic to being like, this is what I have to have out of it, and that's fine. But you kind of have to understand that like, the more like, pigeonholed you get into one single plan, the more likely it is that that one single plan is going to get jacked up by either weather or people or elk changing, you know, habits from one year to the next or a wildfire or something like that. Okay, you guys ready to bust into the hunt west framework, as I called it?

Yeah, let's do it.

Okay. Okay. So when you look at, like, the hunt west framework, it's kind of the thing that I tested for a bunch of years before I started doing this for other people. And it's based on the idea that there's. There's, you know, you look at this, you, unit, and it's like a big elephant. And you've heard that, like, old parable of how do you eat an elephant? It's like, one bite at a time. Well, first step is to, like, chunk it up. So you know, what bite to start with. So I chunk up every unit into low, high, and safety zones. So your high zones, obviously, is your highest elevation in the unit. Your low zones is going to be down, usually around, like, a river bottom, or it's around ag fields, or it's around a canyon. And then you have the safety stuff. Now, the safety is kind of like. It's kind of like a floating variable. You can have safety zones in the high country, you can have safety zones in the low country, and you can have safety zones in the middle. So basically, safety is like your kind of your floater that you get to attach on if you're having a hard time finding animals in the middle of public ground where you're trying to hunt them. Oftentimes, I like it when, like, safety is attached to one of the other two variables. But for the most part, you know, like, on this unit, you got big swaths of. Of national forest ground, and you're like, let's. Let's start with the national forest and see what we can turn up for. For low and high ground. So for the most part, you look at it and you're like, okay, great. Here's this big wilderness area. You're like, okay, that's usually where people's eyes get drawn to. And in this big wilderness area, there's a road that gets pretty high. Like, that's cool. But there's also these main trails that. That branch off of it. And I look at those trails as, like, okay, especially this one that, like, has a road that kicks it up. I mean, the road drives up to 11004 or 11,400ft. So for someone who like, thinks, oh yeah, the high country is where I want to be. They're probably going to stop right there at the wilderness boundary on that road in their side by side and hike from there, you know, and oftentimes I'm like, okay, that's. That could be a good spot that you could use to your advantage if it has the other components to it that you're looking for. But it also could just be a red flag too, as you look around. You know, this, this wilderness area, basically all of the areas that our main drainage kind of have a trail up them. But when I start like thinking about where's the trails where the trail's not, I start getting drawn to some of these, you know, these, these hillsides that are right above Private and that kind of just fall right off into. Fall right off into. This is like a river down at the bottom. And I think the elevation relief here is significant. 88 at the bottom and 12 8, 1200 or 12,000 at the top. I mean, 4000 foot of elevation there from top to bottom. And it's happened fast, right? For the most part, if you're someone who likes to backpack, you're going to go backpack around where it's like meadowy and rolly and kind of nice. But if you're someone who, you know, doesn't like the idea of being on the steep stuff, you're probably just going to avoid that crest. The other side of that crest. Overall, now you add in the factor of like, okay, so it's super steep. There's no trail. That creates an element of safety. And you go like, okay, so where are they getting food and water? Well, where are there some areas that aren't connected to the trail system? This little meadow right here, and we're kind of doing this live, so I'm like, taking some time to digest it while I talk. This meadow right here, it's got a. Looks like it's got a wallow or at least a giant pond right here at the top. And I'm like, nice. That's, you know, knowing about your mapping system, like, I know these are fall images and if there's water still left here, like at the time that this is taken, I'm like, dude, that's pretty good. That should be consistent at least. If it's not consistent there, it's probably consistent down this creek bottom that spits out of the meadow.

I got a question about that. Yeah, go ahead, set the season of the images. Or can you just tell the season by the leaves?

You can set the season of the images on onyx by setting this recent imagery, and it's really helpful. So, like, this is what it looks like in February. And, you know, there's really not a lot of snow up there right now. If anyone's watching the snowpack, like. Like southern Colorado especially is not doing too great. So then I like to kick this back, like, first week of September. Look how green that. Look how green that meadow is. Yeah. And then you've got, you know, second half of September, it dries out a little bit more, but still there's water right there. And the recent imagery is, like, not super great, but it's good enough to, like, kind of verify what you're looking at at least. So when I see this, I'm like, okay, rad. This has got safety right next to it, and it's got this meadow where there's going to be good feed year round. And it's flat. Like, it's.

There's.

This is a sweet flat spot. And then. So. So this whole. This zone right here is really interesting to me. Now, if you think about it, though, the elk are probably going to be out in that meadow at night. They will be betting somewhere nearby, and they'll be coming out in the evening, probably. I would. I. I would gander a guess. Most likely coming from lower and up into it, because here's like, just some more elk biology and, like, some strategy to think about. Elk really, like, moving with their nose into the wind, and as the sun sets, the thermal switch and, like, the wind blows down. So as the wind's blowing down, they can walk uphill in the evening and be pretty much just nose into the wind the whole time, which is super helpful. So they're gonna probably bed down in this stuff that's just off. Just off the top, you know, couple hundred yards away from where they're feeding, maybe 4 to 600 yards. And then on top of that, so they're gonna be out here at night, and then they're gonna be bugling and rutting and they're doing their thing. And then just after daylight breaks, the cows are gonna start, like, drifting back down to their beds. And what those cows are looking for, especially if it's a herd of any decent size, is going to be, like a little bit of a flat spot where they can actually sit without rolling down the mountain and someplace that's cool, because as, you know, 500 pound animals, well, cows would be, you know, 300 pounds or 400 pounds. They gotta have, like, some cool during the middle of September while they're building their winter coat. But they're still. You know, they're still in some hot weather. So I'm looking at this north slope right next to the creek, and I'm kind of licking my chops. I'm like, dang, that looks good. Couple that with this little bench, this finger that pops out, and it's a little bit flatter right there. And I'm like, dang, that could be a great betting spot. So I'd drop a pin probably right on that little bench, and then be like, all right, let's. Let's use my fishing hole analogy. I think I like. I like dropping fishing holes because I think of it, and obviously, you know, Tony, you're on the line. You're a fisherman. You would get this analogy. And, Sam, maybe you, too. But, like, when I cast into a fishing hole, AKA either slowly hunt through it or bugle into it, not every single day is the bike gonna be on. But it doesn't make it a bad hole. Like, maybe there's just some other factors. Like, last night it was too cold, and, like, it shut down a little bit of the bug activity, or, you know, there's just a storm came through, and it muddied up the water. Something happened where things can shift day to day. And that, I think, is the same way that people should think about hunting spots, too, because there's always changing. There's never static, even though we'd like to think of them as that. So there's a good fishing hole. Um, I'll probably drop a pin on this as a water source. Boom. How does that. Go ahead.

How does that fishing hole show up in application? Like, I get. I get the concept that you're laying out, but does that mean.

Hey, I.

Showed up and I still hunted it, and I didn't see anything, but it looks like there's some sign, so. So maybe in a few days or a week, I'll go check it out again.

I think the best way to think of it is, like, you would like to link together a bunch of fishing holes to hit in one day.

Gotcha.

So with this one here, I'm like, okay, now I kind of have, like, a. I got a starting point, right? These elk will be out in this meadow. Then they'll pop down, you know, maybe to here. And then I go, well, if they're not there, like, but this herd is using this meadow every night. Like, what other places could they be? And that's when I look, okay, well, maybe they're not on that so they might be down, they might be down here on this little finger or in the north slope. Just off the finger right there. I'm going to drop a fishing hole there. And then I'm also going to be like, okay, maybe what if they, what if the wind's coming out of the south that day and they just like, as they're. They fed all night here and they're like, man, I'm gonna keep feeding into the wind. Well, they're, then they're gonna bop down to this stuff. And I don't necessarily find elk bedded on flats as much as I find them bedded on like a bench or some feature just off the top. And I see this little tiny, this little tiny wrinkle right here. And it shows basically that there's like a, there's a finger, there's like a little bench. There's something going on right there. And I'm like, gosh, I should check that too. That looks, that looks freaking good. You're starting to see maybe how you can link these things together, right? Let's just say you got a weird storm that's coming out of the. Storms coming out of the east. This time it's just like something or out of the north and like they're going to go a different direction than normal man. Okay, well, if that happens, they're going to be off this side and it's not exactly a north facing pocket. But especially if I turn off this, if I turn off this layer, I see that we got some aspen, some thicker, some thicker, dark timber. There should be some stuff in here and it's not exactly flat, but it's also kind of a finger. I think it's probably worth like digging around in here a little bit, see if there's any sign. So we'll put that together. And here pretty quick you start seeing like, okay, as the sun is coming up, the wind's going to be pulling uphill. And maybe the route that I want to use that day looks a little like this to, to bugle down and look for elk. Can you go check that? Can you go check that and then maybe, you know, figure out where you want to go from there. Ideally, maybe you're. You're camped over here at the. Closer to the trail where there's more traffic and less elk. And you never know, like, they could be bugling in the middle of the night and like wake you up and you're just in them.

What went into the trail or the, the route planning for either? Was it wind considerations at all mainly just terrain and how to walk efficiently.

A lot of it is wind consideration. Like if you're, if you're camped up here on top somewhere closer to the trail and you've gotta go, you know, let's just say a mile and a quarter in the morning. Probably more like a mile and a half once you add the zigzagging. I would try to get into these meadows right as the sun is like coming up. And again, that on the flat spots it's probably going to become the breeze will be coming out of the south, or if you're on a slope, it'll probably be sucking downhill. And so just trying to keep your wind out of the center of where these elk are at is going to be important. So as I'm coming in, I'm thinking about like, okay, I'm going to come in side hill to a lot of these bedding areas to try to see if there's anything bugling on the side hills. Now obviously, as you're going out in the dark, like it, let's just say you're coming from this, this trail. Once I get into this zone, especially half hour before daylight or something like that, I'm bugling and trying to see if something is up here on top and it's bugling and like fired up because then obviously you, that, that throws your game plan out of the window. Then you start just hunting the elk instead of looking for elk.

Right. How far would you expect to be able to wind an elk or for.

Like them to catch you?

Yeah, right, man.

If you're like, I get nerv. I would be nervous once I hit that like 400 yard buff buffer. Especially if it's open like this.

Yeah.

If it's, if it's swirly and it's more timbered stuff, then it's maybe, you know, 200 yards or so. But I'd always rather play it safe. Like if I come in here and as I'm coming across this slope, I'm realizing that like the wind is at my back and blowing to the north, which is pretty common in the Rocky Mountain west, blowing to the north, out of the south, then I'm actually going to probably swing around and make like a little loop. Right. A couple hundred yard loop and get it right and then come into these areas that I want to check.

Makes sense. Yeah.

It is also a lot more helpful if they bugle and then you can start thinking about your strategy.

Right.

With any luck, man, like the ideal scenario in my mind is you get to hear you Hear elk bugling here and you don't have to make a sound and you can slip in and try to cut them off using this like timber edge, See where they're going and get in front of them and like have them walk by you and get a shot.

When you're hitting these different fishing spots throughout the day, what does your bugle look like? Is it just a throw out a locator bugle and then sit and be quiet for five minutes or what? What are you doing?

Yeah, whenever I hit a high point, I'll. Or like a new kind of a new vantage on a drainage or something that could catch, you know, and carry my sound. Then I'll bugle. And usually it's like a locator bugle. You're just kind of like. It's got pretty good volume, but you're not like aggressive necessarily. I'm just trying to get something to, to call back. If you like, listen to elk when they bugle in their bed, they kind of do it lazily, like they're just sounding off. And that's kind of what I'm looking for, just to get a locate out of them. The other thing you could do is as you're going through here, if, let's just say you get decked down into this little finger and you're like, gosh, it's really thick. I can't see, but there's fresh sign in here and I'm not hearing it. Like I haven't seen anything yet and no bugles have come back. I might sit down and I would calcul for a bit and then cow call, do like a sequence and then just wait. Oftentimes you'll find either like a raghorn or something will like walk in or sometimes you'll like fire up a bull that is within hearing. But it's really hard to like, you know, your guys doesn't want to just like zigzag crisscross this with a bow in his hand and be like, maybe I'll run into him eventually. Because like that's really hard to have that happen and you get a shot. But I really like. Yeah, I really like this and wish I could go hunt this. This would be. I think there's. There's probably a pretty consistent herd somewhere on this, this drainage somewhere. And also almost guaranteed if you shoot something, it's going to run down here. Like if you shot something off this point, it's probably going to just pile off down towards the creek and then you're going to realize you're like, ah, we got to go. Either hike this thing back up to our camp or hike down to the bottom and get a ride and then come back around for camp. So as you're. As you're like, planning those hunts, you kind of have to think about what your exit strategy is.

Luckily, down below, there's BLM with quite a few roads, and you can. Looks like you can get across the. Across the river there onto highway.

So I don't. I don't know what that river's like, but that would. I mean, especially if it's September, you can just take your boots off and wait across. It's pretty big. Yeah, it's big.

Yeah.

Yeah. Would you guys. Would you guys wait across without waiters?

It depends on where. Probably not.

It does get kind of lakey at points, but apart from that, it's like big boulders and kind of pretty fast waters.

That makes sense. Pretty good fishing.

Think so.

You never fished it?

Not. Not too good.

Could be better.

Could be better.

Yeah. All right. Are you guys seeing my. My screen load?

Yeah. You're on.

X is having a hard time.

Oh, there she goes.

There we go.

Oh, right. Back in action. We're good. So does that high country spot, like, make sense to you guys how we broke it down?

Yeah, just. Just to summarize, I guess you looked at land that is adjacent to safety, then you looked at access and kind of moved away from that, or at least close enough to where you can access it, but far enough to where others wouldn't. And then you start looking for feed and water and shelter. Is that right?

Yeah, exactly. Like bedding zones where they feed and where they water in. Yep. You'll also notice on this spot, like, let's see, what's the elevation difference here? The trail is 10 Ford. Okay. So it's almost, let's just call it a thousand foot difference between where the trail is at the bottom and where these spots are. I oftentimes feel like that thousand foot mark. 800ft, even 500, depending on where you're at above a road or above a trail. Kind of like they. They won't care if something's in the very bottom, even if it's not very far, as long as there's that much topography change. Because for the most part, people who are walking on this trail at the bottom aren't going to be able to see up here to where the elk are or even here, for that matter. If there's a bull bugling just off this, off this ridge, back from the edge, like they Might not be able to hear it. So.

So as the crow flies, the trail can be pretty close as long as there's enough vert between it.

Yeah. So it's 872 yards to the. So half mile, more or less to the trail. But I'm like, especially with that much terrain and people carrying big backpacks, like, yeah, I'm, I'm not too worried about that. I'd be more worried if it was flatter. So, yeah, that's. That's a good high country spot. Hopefully someone will have this and can test it out.

Yeah. If you.

So say you spent time e scouting those spots and you hike in and there are. There's a group of other hunters who are hitting that zone. Are you going into a spot with a plan B or would you be making one up on the fly or hitting the road and heading to another zone that you checked out?

So let's say there's a guy, a group of hunters who are camped out here, and they're doing the exact same thing that we're looking at. That's where I would have a backup plan. Probably over here in this drainage that doesn't have a trail in it. And I would create the same idea. I would put together a series of. A series of pins where I would go through methodically on the other side. And then you basically would just start, you know, depending on how far you are from your road, like how far your boundaries are that you want to be from getting an elk out. You could then decide whether or not you pop smoke and head out from there, or if you, like, should just go further or try to get more creative up there.

Nice.

Okay, how many, how many points are you usually looking for in one zone? Are you trying to limit it to that?

Like 4 or 5?

Or do you do more generally?

So this, this is a three mile loop, let's call it. It's. It's going to be four or five by the time you do that. That could take you all day. If it's. If there's a lot of elk activity and you're calling a lot and you're just like trying to be methodical, that could, that could be an all day adventure just running around on this, this hilltop. Or if, especially if you blow them out, like, you could, you could get here, you could try to make a move on a bull that's calling and then like blow them out, and then they run to the bottom of the next drainage or the next county, and then you're just like, okay, well, now it's just time to move anyway. And you would have spent a couple hours there that morning. I think if you put more tools in your toolbox and you give yourself some different strategies to hunt for elk, that's when you know you can really. You can stretch this out for a couple different days if you really want to. One day you're just sitting up here and you're trying to get something to bugle. The next day you maybe realize like, oh, this edge right here. Maybe. Maybe right here we can kind of see across pretty well. And we're going to go get there and glass. There's nothing talking. And we're going to glass this giant basin across and see if somewhere in this multi mile stretch. Let's see, what is that? You can pretty much glass three miles across, see if there's a elk herd that's running around over there and then have to come back around and try to make a move on them. So that's where you can kind of start adding your own flares. Like what kind of a hunt you.

Want out of it and how much you glass in September can be a product of what's going on when you're hunting. Like say, not much is going on. Let's glass this other basin. Or if that's the kind of hunt that you want to have.

Yeah, B.

Both is what I would say. It's like, yeah, I haven't heard. Yeah, I haven't heard crap like, what am I going to do? Well, I'm going to go to a glassing kind of game plan. Or if you're like, I haven't heard anything but like, clearly there's fresh sign in here. The elk have been in here. Then I'm going to sit on. Let's just say this is an actually sick wallow. And it's like, obviously bulls are coming through here. Then I'm going to post up and just like wait for dark. Probably find a tree that's a little closer. That's 50 yards. I guess that's to the middle of it, but you get the idea. Find a spot where you can catch animals moving through and you're going to be sitting there all damn day and not really expect to see much until that last hour of delight. Right.

So.

And crazy stuff happens. They'll come through in the middle of the day sometimes. But yeah, that's how you kind of just take what. Take what's given to you and then start playing with different strategies while you're up there.

Nice.

Yeah.

One of. One of the. I hit a Bull and lost it. But that bowl was actually, like, in a situation very similar to this, where there was a big meadow. We got up there and we bumped two cows, but there was no. We didn't hear any bull spugling with nothing. But we were like, gosh, there's cows here. There's going to be a bull somewhere. So we just sat down and started cow calling and waited till dark. And, like, a bull just, like, silently, like, stepped into the meadow, and I kind of rushed a shot, but that's a different story.

That's cool.

Yeah. Okay, so maybe let's look at. Let's look at some low country spots. Does that sound good? This is a hard.

This.

I will say this is kind of a tough one, but I think there's a good zone to check out.

Let's do it.

Yeah, let's do it.

Okay. So I was kind of looking at this over here. Yeah. So this has got some. This has got some kind of unique characteristics I really like. So the bottom of this valley is 10,000ft. We're talking about hunting up towards 12 earlier. And so, like, you have this big freaking meadow at the bottom, and it's private. It's private land. I'm, like, all about that. Like, that's. That's an element of safety. Right. Like, people aren't going to be running around the elk at night when they're out there in the private land. But the bedding. The only bedding nearby really, is unless they're in this subdivision across the street, which I don't think they would do, that is going to be this national forest, north slope, northwest slope kind of area. And the other thing, as you look at this is, like, there's no direct access from a road on directly to the slope from the main. From the main corridor. Right. The only way to get to that is going to be having to come from backing over the top off the other side. So, you know, you look at it, you're like, okay, like, this is starting to piece together some things I like. There's safety where they're feeding at night. Not going to get screwed with out in the meadow. And then you have this mountain that's kind of tough to get to. You can either come from a little bit less elevation change and get to it, you know, over a mile. And that's kind of a weird. Yeah, that'd be a weird approach. Or you can just boot up straight up, which is a little bit closer. Half mile. Maybe a little more than half mile till you get into some of that Zone. I like that. I think like that kind of checks the boxes. The other thing that is cool is like, this is detached from the main mountain. This is detached from the heart of all the things that people are hiking into. And on the back side of this, you can kind of see there's probably some water features. There's probably some water type wallows or seeps or something that's making the canopy change in the zone. Or maybe there's no water, but it's just good feed. And I'm like, ooh, I like, I like whatever's going on here because it's different than just the freaking blanket of timber that's elsewhere. So that would definitely be efficient hole. I'm like, I'm not super sure exactly what's going on at the ground level, but as you zoom in, you can kind of see some openings. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm a fan of that. Drop one of them suckers there. We're gonna have to check that out. As you come around, you can kind of see the same thing. These little pockets, vast bins. I'm like, man, there's something. There's something that's going to be underneath the canopy here to check out. Let's. Let's drop the pin down in there. And then you kind of quickly start seeing like, okay, there's. There's a pretty simple game plan to go hunt this. Let's see if there's another place. You know, I really like saddles. I think that they. This is more of a. One of those flat spots we were talking about. Usually the wind can be kind of funky and they like that. So let's just toss one right next to that saddle. I don't think they're going to be in the middle of it necessarily. There's not a whole lot of COVID and it'd be kind of warm right there. But just off the north side, north side of that saddle. Then you go back to like, okay, so what's the freaking game plan? Well, we got to get the wind right. So the best way to think about it is at night when you're hiking in, the wind's blowing down to you, and as you're like trying to check things, first thing in the morning, the wind's going to be blowing down and oftentimes out of the south. So you kind of have to come into this from the north. So maybe instead of coming up and over the top, like I was originally thinking, what do we got here? Maybe we could just park right alongside this other Main road and come in from the north. There you go. Now you've got your. Like, naturally you see this kind of game plan pan, like start coming together and then maybe if you're not seeing anything, kind of loop back down around and then hit this quick bottom.

There you go.

So that three mile loop, probably more like four by the time you get in there. 2.8 on the map. But that's never. The map always lies. But that's. I mean, that could be all day or it could be your morning, like, depending on what you're seeing or not seeing. I really like that me about this.

Is how close you go to the boundary, which is. Or, you know, private in this case, which obviously acts as safety, but that's something that I wouldn't have thought of. To me, the boundary is like, okay, take the boundary and then add a buffer and that's where you want to be, you know, And I always feel like I don't want to be close to the GMU boundary or like private boundary. Intuitively, I think you.

That is the prevailing thought for sure. Like most folks don't want that. Yeah. Let's just say you, you shoot an elk in this, this patch of timber. To private, they are 400 yards. But if you put a good shot on something, they shouldn't go like a good double long shot. That shouldn't go more than like 150. What you definitely need to do, and you should. People should do this all the time. Right. But like, here's. This is just human nature, so you kind of have to grade on that curve. But you think about this. You're like, normally I'm a great shooter out to 50, man, we're hunting close to this. I'm gonna suck that range into like 40 or 30 and, and make sure that all the pieces are really, really lined up because you just cannot afford to have one run out there into that. Now we'll say like, unless you really screw the pooch and make a really bad shot, the elk will probably stay in the timber. Like, they want to be in cover if they're hit. So that's another factor. Like, it doesn't bother me as much. They're not going to necessarily run out to the flat and bed down every time. I'm not gonna. Now someone's gonna be like, yeah, yeah. But like this happened. And I was like, okay, outlier. But for the most part they're gonna stay to the timber. I think probably a responsible thing to do would be to figure out something about this landowner too. When I was hunting in Oregon with my brother and my dad. We were hunting these elk that were right next to this private boundary, and the people that owned it, we knew from local information they didn't let people retrieve elk on their side of the fence. They were hard. No folks. And we had bulls that were literally on the fence line, and we were just like, we can't take a shot, because if they just take 10 steps into the other boundary, we're screwed. We can't go get it. So that should probably play a factor in your decision making, too.

Totally.

Okay. You guys like that? It's great. Oh, I kind of like this, too. You've got a ski hill that's, like, right next door. Dude. There's a lot of people that hate, like, hunting next to recreational spots, because for whatever reason, you're like, oh, it ruins the experience. And I totally agree. Like, if you don't want to do that, that's fine. But I find that these are highly recreational areas, like, seem to be overlooked from hunters because they just think of it as, like, oh, that's a ski area. Like, ain't no outcoming there.

Yeah, I really like the idea of pocket hunting. Even from last season, I feel like that's where a lot of my elk encounters were.

When.

I looked back at the pins I put down when I was e Scouting, it was kind of in those huge swaths of public land. Like, it does something to your mind. You think, maybe there are more animals there, but really, most of my elk encounters were in those little pockets kind of off to the side.

Yeah, I think, you know, maybe if you're in the. If you're in some unit that's, like, ultra restricted with hunter pressure, there will be some in there. But I think there's just, like, a general statement you can make about the West. Like, the best habitat where the. The meadows are, the rivers are, or just like, generally speaking, there's good edge habitat. Usually there's some boundary that humans have, like, either bought the land or have created a road or done something, like, next to it that makes it. So that place that is normally really good habitat has something goofy about it. And that's where you get private boundaries or your national forests or your parks or whatever the case is. Yeah. Okay. All right, boys. Do you want to do another quick one? Let's do it.

Yeah. Whenever you gotta go, let us know.

Well, I think we can finish up with one more quick one, and then, like, folks will get the idea. You'll get the idea of basically the whole breakdown. Of the whole breakdown of like, what's a spot look like that's just in the middle of the unit, but it has some safety to it because I think not all, you know, quote unquote, safety is created equal because it still has to be good habitat. Right. Like, you can't just choose this, like, timber, like, section that somebody bought to log one day, but it's just a thick sand of timber and think that that's safety.

It's just.

It's not gonna. It's not gonna produce anything. Same with some of these Colorado spots where there's like, old mining claims that are. That are private land now. And you're like, oh, but there's no habitat value, there's no wildlife value to that. So that doesn't help. Okay. These are all so tricky because. And I think this is a constant thing in Colorado. You get these, like, subdivisions that create these goofy land ownership patterns. Oh, but I like this. Yeah, I like this a lot. So this is another kind of like, low area. There isn't any major subdivisions on this one. But what I really like is the. The water and the feed. They're on Private, but there's not like the thick, dense cover that they like to bed in down here on Private. You look up the drainage just a little ways around here on this north slope, and you're starting to get into some thick timber. But you got these little pockets of. These little pockets of feed that are right next to the creek. Man, I like that. That looks good. Look at. It's like less than a mile from the center of the Private. Yeah, so I'm going to drop a pin on that sucker. That looks good. And then I'm going to like, step back and be like, okay, how the frick do I get in there? Okay, so probably going to have to come in from this and there's a trail here. But I'm going to probably, you know, unless I know there's elk there, I'm going to probably try to link together multiple spots. So there's some good. There's some good looking stuff in here. Oh, look at this giant rock that usually provides really good shade and a place to bed. It was probably check that zone and link it across here. Yeah, another good creek bottom. All right, with that, we're going to kind of end the podcast for you all this week, But I wanted to make sure you got this bonus episode so that you could get a better idea of what a hunt west session or Hunt west planning service looks like. For the most part, you know, it's basically just working through these things, figuring out what people's abilities are, what their access to vehicles are, what their previous experiences have been and what they really want out of a hunt, and then breaking it down in a way that is really digestible and understandable while going through a kind of how to hunt process. That's that old saying, you know, you can teach a man. No, how's that saying go? God, I'm really screwing this up. You can give a man a fish, you'd feed him for a day. You can teach a man to fish and you'll feed him for a lifetime. This is a, this is much more of a teach a man to fish type operation that we're using. Hunting, you get the idea. If you want to work with me on some of this stuff and learn how to do this on your own, that's baked into all of our services. It's not just like we're going to go find you a honey hole and say, have at it. We're going to talk about each of your needs, your expectations, your goals for your hunt, and craft something that fits specifically for you and your style. Maybe you're not a backpack hunter, maybe you're a day hunter. Maybe you need to stick pretty close to the truck cause you've got a bad knee or whatever. And you need to try to think creatively as to how to get an animal that's relatively close to a road system. Either way, we'll sit down and work it, work through a process for you and give you some spots and some places to look at. But then also you'll be able to take whatever you learned from our sessions and not just apply it this year. But I hope you learn something and can apply it in all of your future hunts too. If you never want to come work with me again. That's actually kind of my goal is like I want people to build a sustainable program that works for them in the way that they like to hunt. Furthermore, if you're doing it right, I think that folks should be hunting the same units and learning the same places and going back and hunting different species, but just really getting to know one chunk of ground. Because that in and of itself really, really increases your likelihood of success and finding what you want out of a hunt. If you do want to work with me on this stuff though, please don't, don't be afraid to reach out. My email is jadenuntwest.net and I'd really love it if you got ahold of me and we talked about Some of your needs, talked about, some of the challenges you've had in the past and places you want to improve, what your goals are for the hunt, what you're doing to get ready for it, and then we can really sit down and build a game plan that works for you. This isn't about, like I said, I've said it a few times. It's not about giving away honey holes. This is about teaching people how to do this stuff. And I'm really passionate about it. So if you'd like to work with me, feel free to reach out. And one final kind of comment on that. You'll notice when we're looking at a unit or a couple of hunts, we're going to be spreading people out and making plans kind of top to bottom, north, south, east, west, because I want people to be mobile. I want them to be adaptable to whatever the mountain gives them. And that being said, I'm not going to ever put two people in the same unit in the same year. So if you're wanting to work with me, get a hold of me. For instance, there's quite a few people who've got a hold of me for western Wyoming elk hunts, and those are filling up. It's not like I've given away different units already, but someone will come to me and be like, hey, I'm looking at these units, let's break them down. And if that's what you're looking at and somebody else has already taken it, unfortunately, we got to pass on the service, so. Or you got to make a game plan shift and go to some different area. I'm happy to work with people to do those game plan shifts. And just know that, like, for the most part, there are elk and deer and pronghorn opportunities in every unit. And there's a way that you can think about hunting each unit in its own unique way to be successful. So I'm not actually that concerned about what the specific unit is, but we're going to sit down and figure out how to hunt it, how to hunt it best for you, how to hunt it best for the unit and the timeframe of the season that you're there. So it's not. It's not this whole set in stone. Here's where you go. I'm going to guarantee something. No, I'm trying to teach you how to look at each place and figure out a program, a process, a game plan that's going to be a rinse and repeatable strategy for you for this year and years down the road. So again, if you want to get a hold of me, you can email me jadenotwest.net or get a hold of me on any of the social media, however else you would like to stay in touch. So for all of those who have gotten a hold of me so far, I know there's a bunch of you listening. I really appreciate it and it's super fun. I I really love just watching people learn. Go have success. Go have fun while they're out hunting in the West. And it's been a really enjoyable it's been a really, really enjoyable spring so far, looking at different ways to hunt places. So if you'd like to add yourself to that list, I would be honored to work with you. All right, that's going to be the show for this week and I hope you've enjoyed this kind of glimpse into a Hunt west session or a Hunt west game plan. So feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Thank you for listening to the Hunt west podcast. If you like what you heard today, the best compliment you can give is to share the show with a friend. We will see you on the next episode and we hope one day to see you Hunt West.