Huntin' Stories & Surviving HAPE with Matt Emerson

Foreign.

To the Hunt west podcast, here's your host, Jaden Bales. Okay. I'm seeing little blips as if it's recording, so. Okay, we'll just launch into this. Matt, we've been trying to do this podcast for months.

Yeah, man. We have schedules.

We're really bad about actually scheduling podcast, though. We just do other.

Yeah, we'll like, talk about doing it and then, you know, we'll put whatever. Surfing on TV or we'll crack open a laqua and just like for an hour and then it's like 10 o' clock at night and I have a job, so I go to bed.

The other day, we were sitting in the kitchen talking about something, and I was like, God dang it, man, I wish we had that on the podcast. I don't even remember who it was.

Now, but probably hunting. It was.

Yeah. So today's podcast, we've got my roommate Matt Emerson on the line. Matt, you and I, like, it's kind of funny because we just. We were talking about the other day. We're like 90 of our conversations are just hunting in the house. This is like kind of what we do. Hunting and women priorities.

Both good things.

Which we also just got back from boys breakfast, which I also feel like that was the theme at boys breakfast.

Generally, it's either hunting women, usually women. Mountain biking, fishing. And some of these things we're good at. Some of them were not.

Yeah, but that's the fun of it, man, is because if when you get like a room of eight, nine guys together.

Yeah.

People have different skill sets. And then you end up just like.

But we're all stuff. But we're all horrible with women, it seems.

I don't know if I could put myself in that category.

Right.

Actually.

Yeah, you're doing just fine.

I'm doing all right.

In fact, thinking about it, it's really just me and Ryan who are bad at dating.

Yeah. Like I said, everyone's got their skills.

So.

Dude, it was super fun, though. Cause, like, at the breakfast this morning, we got to, like, help some guys out, like, with their tag applications. I didn't feel like. Or not even applications. Just understanding what's happening with Wyoming system. I didn't feel like telling Eric that his second third choices. He probably couldn't draw. But that's okay.

Yeah, I mean, I think that the system is almost designed around most people not really knowing how it works, though, which is good for, like, fellows like you and your clients who can kind of learn from that and be able to utilize that system. Well, because the masses don't really put the work into it to, like, read up on draw statistics or seasons or, you know, how the first second choice thing actually works, which is great because I don't know if I could draw a second choice antelope tag if everybody knew how that system worked.

That's true.

So I don't know. I'm just going to try to reap the benefits of that, at least while it's here. Yeah. And not everybody wants to dive into it at the level that you do or people who are probably listening to this podcast do, where we're nerding out over statistics and hunting.

Well, and we had talked about it when we were doing moose sheep, goat applications, because we were talking about our sheep apps, and it was like we had looked at the same stats to try to maximize our random odds.

Pretty much, yeah. But I think we had different goals for that. Like, I was looking for the longest pack out I could find, which happens to be one of the better draw odds as well. But, yeah, I don't know. My. I guess my sheep dreams are just to. To die on a. On a pack out.

Yeah, that would be. I mean, if you're gonna do it, you better do it 100.

That's what I'm saying. I'm probably gonna do it, like, one time in my life, so might as well be full send.

I like that, dude. How did you learn about draws and all this stuff? Like, I. You know, basically, so last weekend, I was with my grandpa.

Yeah.

And my grandpa's been hunting the same mountain range. He was like. He's like, I love hunting this mountain range. My dad, AKA my great grandpa, gathered feral horses in this country and then, like, would break them and then sell them. And that was, like, his job, like, growing up when my grandpa was a kid. And so he keeps hunting elk in that same area, but he goes, you know, some years I draw, some years I don't. And he's like, I just kind of keep putting in. I'm like, yes, because it takes two points, Grandpa.

Like, I don't, like, wow. Every, like, three years you draw.

Yeah, exactly. And so we had to, like, teach him. So it wasn't inherent in my family that anyone knew anything about Jaws. How'd you learn, man?

So it honestly, like, kind of similar to that. Like, I grew up in Northern California, which is a big secret. Don't tell anybody. And my dad in, like, the 80s and my grandpa, they really liked hunting, like, the Modoc Plateau, which is, like, Northeast California. And Back in the day, like when I was a kid, it was, it was always this like, I mean, we talked about rides or passage today at boys breakfast, which don't really exist anymore. But like back then the ride of passage was like to get to go hunt the Modoc, which knowing now it takes like two or three points to draw. At least it did back then. I think it's different now. And back in the day it was pretty decent hunting. I mean, looking at like photos of grip and grins with my grandpa. I mean, they were shooting, you know, deer that we would like put on magazine covers now back then. But nowadays, I mean, you'd like go shoot a forky up there, which is kind of what my experience with the Modoc was when I started hunting it because, like, the general units around us were not good, at least for deer, but at least, you know, with the skill sets and knowledge that we had as a kid, which for me was road hunting with my dad and grandpa and driving around and then like maybe going for like a loop walk in the, in the woods and just hoping you like, get lucky and run into one. Which is kind of like my intro into big game hunting, like what I learned, you know, as a kid. But yeah, it was like a similar thing. Like dad and grandpa would be like, oh yeah, every like two or three years you could draw Modoc and didn't really know what that meant. Just like thought I was like being lucky. And then at some point somebody mentioned points and then, I don't know, I like at some point in my, like when I was like 17, 18, got a car, had a job and could afford to like do stuff by myself and didn't need to rely on like my dad and grandpa anymore and sit in the back seat of our jeep with an in one car being like hoping that a deer would just stand in the road. I started watching like a lot of Randy Newberg on YouTube and like daydreaming. Like I was working a, like a electrician's job in the Bay Area as like an apprenticeship thing and was working like 12 hour days, like six or seven days a week and was just living vicariously through YouTube on like outdoor stuff and like mainly hunting and yeah, I mean, Randy would like talk about stuff like that. And you know, I just kind of really decided that I wanted to rededicate my life towards not just hunting. I mean, it was pretty much exclusively hunting for a long time. But you know, being outdoors and doing that I like to do when I was a kid, but be more intentional with that then maybe I learned to be with my dad, my grandpa and growing up. So yeah, like him and then at some point got really into like the go hunt kind of thing and just nerding out over how to hunt different states and like hunt a lot and have like multiple tags and also like be successful and you know, just having like that analytical kind of brain of like, how can I do stuff better? And that's not just like go hunting better, but also like get opportunities to go hunting better.

Yeah.

And then be, you know, intentional with that time because I mean before I lived like in Wyoming or Montana, I mean it was hunting out of state and you have like a week or 10 days or whatever and it's like, how can I maximize my effectiveness in this amount of time? So it just kind of cascaded from that and a little bit of analysis paralysis at times, but enough like gumption to go and try and fail that it just like, you know, started working out at some point. So a pretty long roundabout way to answer that, I guess. But mainly YouTube.

YouTube. Dude, when you were, when, when you moved to Montana, would you say that was kind of like where you built your skill set or do you think you had a pretty good skill set before?

I think that both. So before I moved to Montana to finish college, I went to University of Montana, which you already know. Lived in Missoula and in and around the Bitter route for a few years before I came to Wyoming. Before then I was going to junior college and working and doing fire stuff. Like in California I would go mainly to Idaho, out of state and Arizona and hunt mainly mule deer. And I would say that I went from getting lucky to being able to go hunting and like have intention and be successful and like create my own success while I was still living in California but like hunting other places. I mean, if I was to go back to California, you know, this year and try to hunt like and look at it through a lens of like I'm going to try to kill like whatever four point mule deer I probably could maybe. I think I have like more knowledge now and just woods have been shipped than I did when I was a kid learning. But I think I really did cut my teeth like doing those out of state hunts, like going mainly to Idaho and Arizona, then moving to Montana. It was really like I hadn't been able to afford an elk tag before then, but then I was a resident after a while and was able to like go elk hunting and man, it was like my goal, like it was like the thing I had to do and I wanted to get good at because like I'd see people that I was like trying to get friend, become friends with in different circles and stuff like that were successful every year shooting elk. And it was in Montana. I think the not the success rate for general elk is like 10% or something. It's like hard, which is what like deer was where I grew up. So it was this like thing, this like pinnacle of wanting to be a dude that could kill an elk every year. And man, it was tough. Like I think my first season I hunted like 21 days straight in September. Like I was going part time for school because I was trying to gain residency and establish bonafide so I couldn't take full time classes. So I just like did nothing but hunt elk and it up every day like was either even if, like if I found elk and was in them, like I would mess it up, but through just volume of going and going and going, you know. Eventually I killed my first bull. It was raghoor.

Was that the first year? Did it take a couple years?

That was the first year.

Okay.

And then yeah.

With a bow or rifle?

With bow. With a bow, yeah. It was like September 23rd, I ran into a guy up in the mountains up there who kind of mentored me and we would hunt together a little bit here and there. And yeah, he kind of took me under his wing and he called in that first bull for me after like, I don't know, it was probably the 10th day that we had hunted together that season. And yeah, just like a mix of hunting with that fella and then like by myself a lot and like seeing the nuances of like what, what like almost being successful looks like and then like what wasting your time looks like. And then just like constantly throwing at the wall and seeing what stuck. And I think I got, I got lucky that year and then like the years after that, I mean, you know, a couple more cows, a couple more rag horns, just like I felt like getting lucky and just lots of days in the woods for elk. I mean deer. I was hunting southeast Montana a lot and then like a little bit of western Montana and still Idaho. I'd still go hunt that and like just pretty consistently finding success. Like I think I filled every deer tag that I wanted to after I moved to Montana and started hunting from like that area. But you know, I'd already had like three or four years of grinding at it with what we consider like conventional western hunting now of like, you know, backpack in glass, find stuff in the mountains. And spot and stock kind of shit. Yeah. Elk took me a lot longer to figure out. And like, I'm at the point now and I think part of it is just Wyoming is really dang good. Like, I'm killing elk every year. And I mean, I've. I've killed an elk every year that I've had a tag, but I'm much more predictable in that now. Like, I can go hunting for a week and be like, yeah, I'll probably get some opportunities. Whereas back in Montana, dude, It was like 30 days in of, you know, archery and rifle combined. And I'd be like, man, I hope I get one, because the season is almost over then, you know, getting lucky. But I think a lot of that too is just like, Wyoming suits my style a little bit better. At least the places I like to hunt in Wyoming do. The Montana did just, you know, a lot more like heavily forested, not a lot of like drier. Like it's drier in Wyoming, so there's a lot more open country. And I kind of just like to sit on my butt and like, look around.

Yeah.

And see things and like, you know, just get in position and kind of like predict animal movements. Whereas Montana, I felt like a lot of it was just hunting off of what other hunters are doing. The places that I ended up being in, like, you're. You're incorporating pressure and like localized like in that day. And also just season wide pressure just. It was what it felt like.

Yeah. So wait, go back to that mentor. How did you meet this homeboy? Was it like an interesting story or was it.

Yeah, kind of. I found this like, basin that, I mean, when you're like, kind of new to hunting and getting into the onyx thing, like you're e scouting all the time, you, like, find the perfect basin. It's like, oh, I'm gonna hunt all season there. I'm gonna kill a bull there, whatever. And yeah, I had been scouting it and I was seeing like elk in there feeding preseason in August. And then the day before opening day is coming up and I'm backpacking in and it's like just dumping rain, like wet thunderstorms everywhere. And I'm like, I don't care. I'm going. And none of my homies wanted to go or could go because, you know, they were in school or had jobs and were less willing to sacrifice everything to like, go hunting. It was like all I wanted to do. So I was like, whatever, I guess I'll just go by myself. And I, I'm like up on top of this ridge in the alpine, on this, like, rock scree face, like, glassing into these meadows in this basin. And you can't really see a ton, but because it's like, pretty heavily forested, but there's like some openings and I would see, like elk in there. And I'm sitting up there. The rain had stopped finally. I was, like, hiding under a white bark pine in this torrential downpour, just soaking wet. I had, like crappy cabela's space rain gear on or something. Yeah, and I'm like, wetter inside from sweat because they didn't breathe than I would have been. I think just like raw dogging it in wool. But yeah, I got up there and I'm glassing, and I see a couple raghorns, like, run around in this meadow playing with each other because, you know, like a dog, after you give him a bath, he's all like, got the zoomies. And I like, look down the ridge and I see this fellow, like, walking towards me. I'm like, no, there's another dude up here. He actually turned out to be, like, a super cool guy. He was also from, like, the Missoula area. And yeah, he's like, well, you know, there's plenty of elk in here. You know, I'm. I'm like 28 now, and I still look like a baby. So when I was 21 at the time, total baby phase. Snow beard, short hair. Like, this guy probably thought I was 18. He's just like, well, we can hunt together if you want, man. Like, I got my dad with me. He's just tagging along for the ride. And yeah, he had been hunting that basin for a few years and, like, been pretty successful in there. And was just at the point, I guess, where he's like, yeah, you know, like, I'll kind of spread the love a little bit, take this guy out, teach him how cutting. Because I was very forward of, like, yeah, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm here.

Yeah.

And I don't know, I think he just kind of admired that I was willing. It was, like, deep. I think he was a little bit in admiration that I was able to get back there. And also, like, me looking so young and innocent just felt bad for me, which, thank God. But yeah, his name was Brett. Really, really just a really nice guy. We camped separately. Funny enough, I ran into a grizzly bear that night. I can get into that if you want, or we can come back to it. But next day, opening day, we're hunting Together. And he just really liked doing these, like, cold call setups where we'd, like, just, like, slip into meadows, basically, like the edge that had a lot of elk side. It was really early season, and he would just like, kind of lazily rake and bugle a little bit. And he'd had a lot of success with just rag horns and stuff coming in to check you out. And we did all that all day. And the whole time, I'm just, like, excited. Like, any minute now, one's gonna come running in, and we didn't see shit. But the day it goes on. And then we end up, like, at the top of the basin. There's this big, like, benchy area that he said all the elk tend to like to bed in. And he, like, didn't want to go in there to mess him up. He's like, no, no. Like, we're gonna be here like, a week. I want to, like, try to catch them on the fringes of the doing their thing, but I don't want to interrupt them because I don't want to blow them out. And he had these, like, little chutes, like corridors that he said they like to travel down that he wanted to set up in for the evening. So we kind of spread out. He posts me up in this spot, and then he goes, like, I don't know, two or three hundred yards to my east, maybe on the edge of, like, another meadow that they, like, like to walk the edge of to get down back into the feeding areas for the evening. And, you know, I hear him kind of calling here and there, mainly just like, some cold call, cow calls, and maybe like, a lazy bugle every now and then. And. And then it starts getting to be that time of evening where you're like, well, you know, we're kind of losing shooting light. It's getting a little dark. Like, probably should be start be fixing to head back to camp, which was about three miles away on top of a ridge. And I, like, grab my pack, I knock, or I put my arrow back in my quiver and start walking over to, like, whereabouts I thought he was. And I'm, like, looking around like, where the hell is that guy? I'm like, you know, like, not hearing anything. I hadn't heard elk call for a while. So then I just, like, start cow calling a little bit, like, rapidly in a way that you would think, like, that's a dude, just to try to get his attention and nothing like how call a few more times. And I hear, like, a. Like a bull bugle across the meadow. Oh. And it was like, dang, he's pretty good at that. Like, I was Brett. So I like, walk, like, just clear across the middle of this meadow, like, walking, like I'm getting there to meet up with this guy and get across the meadow. And I'm looking around. I don't see anything. It's like, really dark. Ish. Like, kind of like the last five minutes of shooting light. And I like, calcul a couple more times. And then, like, bugle just rips 100 yards from me, like, loud. Kind of shakes my back a little bit. And I'm just like, that sounds really good. So I'm like, I could do. I could bugle. I've been practicing. So I bugle back as nasty as I could. Adam. I'm like, standing there and I hear, like. And I look to my left, and there's like a bull with his head down, running towards me, like, 20 yards, 15 yards.

Oh, God.

And I'm like. I literally said, oh. And this bull, like, skids to a stop, like out of a cartoon, looks at me, and then just, like, tears off. So that was my first bull I ever called in. And walk back to camp. And Brett and his dad are in camp with a campfire. Like, oh, we thought you were getting into something, so we just, like, left you. Slipped out and left you. And I was like, told him the story, and his dad was like, you got in his zone. That's awesome. But, yeah, yeah, hunted with that guy on and off for the next few weeks. And yeah, you called in a. A rag horn. We were like, shadowing this herd about 200 yards from that same spot and slipped in there. We bumped some elk, and then this raghorn, like, was kind of in on the outskirts, like, 150 yards away. And we set up, like your typical kind of out calling setup where Brett's like 50 yards behind me or so, and I find, like, a cool little spot that had, like, lanes, and I like, range. Some stuff is like this baby tree at, like, 30 yards that I remember in this, like, alley that looked like a skitter had drove through it, which it was in a wilderness area, so that was not the case. But, yeah, over, like 20 minutes, I'm watching this bull, like, run back and forth, like, trying to decide if he wants to come in, while Brett's just, like, calling, you know, with, I don't know, moderate temperature and a lot of raking. And then he just. Brett starts cow calling a bunch. And that bullet just decided, like, I'm coming. And I watched him through the trees from about 150 yards away, just, like, beeline it directly towards Brett. And he gets. I draw my bow. Hearts pounding, I'm shaking. And this bull steps into that opening, like, right next to that tree I had ranged. And I yell, hey. And he just stops and looks at me. And I just remember seeing, like, my 30 yard pin, like, right in the boiler room. And the arrow just goes thunk. And I, like, smoked him through the heart. And I watch him run 100 yards and pile up and start kicking. Went over to Brett and I, like, had to lay down because I was so, like, fired up and jazzed about the whole thing. And, yeah, it was my first bull. We cut it up, hung it up, went back to camp, like, half of it, and then came back the next day. There was a black bear on the carcass. So Brett killed that bear.

Oh, really?

Yeah, we thought it was a big bear at, like, I don't know, 40 yards. So he aimed for 40, and the bear, like, looks up at him. And then Brett shoot. Looses the arrow. And the arrow, like, we didn't see where it went, but the bear just falls over, like, not a twitch. Like, like, if you just, like, shut the lights off. Yeah, we're like, what the. We walk over there, and it was a really small bear at, like, 20 yards. So he aimed, like, really high and shot it in the head. And I have a photo of this, like, the arrows, like, its eye socket.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. And he just, like, shut it off. But, yeah, you got that bar age. It was like, 27 years old. I bet you, like, the size of a Labrador. That's crazy tiny. And I really wanted him to keep the arrowhead in the. The skull, like, in the Euro. And he took it out. I was really. I thought that was very lame of him.

Yeah, that is lame.

I still haven't forgiven him for that.

That's crazy.

Yeah, I had. I. I don't. I think I ran into that guy a couple more times after that season up in that same basin, and don't think I even hunted with them again. Honestly, after that, we kind of kept in touch here in there. But, yeah, it's kind of.

What a nice guy. Yeah.

He got me an elk, and then it was like, all right, he's got it now.

Yeah, he's good to go.

Yeah.

Dude, there's something in there that I like about Brett. And, like, I know you do this now too, but, like, I've got this saying. It's like, you hunt to. You can Hunt three ways. You can hunt to kill one now, kill one today, or kill one this season.

Yeah.

Brett's mindset is like, I'm gonna kill one this season. That's why he's, like, staying out of that, like, that, like, honeyhole.

Yeah. He's, like, letting them be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I need to be able to hunt another day.

Right. And he's. And, like, he was in there a lot. He knew that area very well. I think of it, like, the same ways, like, dudes who fish from muskie are. It's just like thousand casts. Like, I'm not trying to, you know, spear one or, you know, put it all on the line for, like, right now, he's like, I know it'll happen. I just gotta kind of continually let them be and, like, let it happen. And I think, like, after that season of hunting with him, I went through, like, a phase of listening to too much whatever. Meat eater Jason Phelps kind of podcast stuff, where it was like, be aggressive. You know, cut him off. Lip ball. Be, you know, get in there. And was, like, very, very much trying to approach it that way, where I'm, like, making things happen and struggled. And then, like, as I've continued to elk hunt over the years, I found more of just, like, relaxing and almost, like, turkey hunting, like, letting shit happen and just being in the right areas and letting elk be elk and kind of being in proximity to that, like, being like a satellite has been way more effective for me because I've gone from taking, you know, 20 plus days to kill an elk to less than a week. Yeah. Or, you know, and I think that that was, like, my enlightenment. It was just, like, remembering what Brett had taught me back then. And, like, I don't do everything that he does or do it the way that he did, but realizing that that guy had it, like, more figured out than I think I was ready for at the time. Yeah. Like, I needed to go pound miles and bugle too much and wear out calls to, like, understand that whole thing. I just wasn't ready for it when I was 20 and wanting to, like, be a badass and just call bulls in all the time.

Yeah. There seems to be, like, this big, like, this fine balance of, like, a lot of people who get started elk hunting, they're not going hard enough. They're not getting three miles from their camp and hunting until dark and, like, doing that whole thing. And usually it seems like that aggressiveness, like, actually getting into the. Where they. You need to be and doing that, that seems to be really Closely tied to the whole, like, bugle. Get in there, get in there.

Cut them off.

Like, that seems to be pretty closely tied because that was exactly how I progressed too.

Right.

I went from, like, not going hard enough in the paint to, like, being, like, way too aggressive.

Yeah.

And then now it's like, I probably try to live in the let's kill one today mentality.

Yeah.

Because I like to bounce around and I go a bunch of different places, but. And then you actually just get close and you're like, I don't need to kill it at 7am or 8am in the morning. It's like, let's just figure it out, make a play that works out some point today, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I wonder there's something to that too, because. Yeah. It seems like there's a sweet spot for sure. The killers.

Oh, yeah.

Sweet spot.

I. When I think that you have to have that time to be aggressive and mess things up a lot to know what you can get away with.

Yeah.

And know, like, when the right time to charge in there is or, like, when to make your move. And you're only going to learn that, like, by messing up moves a lot of times.

Yeah.

And you just have to kind of find that balance, I guess, of what is. What did Theodore Roosevelt say? Like, speak softly, but carry a big stick or something? Yeah, it's like, kind of like that. Yeah.

That's for sure.

Yeah. And I mean, being aggressive all the time works for some dudes, but I don't know, like, I want to wear out the appropriate amount of boot leather per year.

Yeah.

Not new pair every year and not same pair for 20 years.

Yeah, that's a really good point. It was kind of like we were talking about how many miles we put on. And I remember back in the day, I used to be like, dude, I'm gonna just 10, 15 miles a day. Yeah.

It was all about distance. Like. Yeah.

It's not the smartest way to do it. If you go.

Yeah.

Two, three miles in, two, three miles out, that's a five to seven mile day.

Yeah. You know, like, you're spending a lot of time getting to the elk and not a lot of time just waiting for the elk to mess up. And I mean. Yeah. Like, back then it was. I was, you know, eight miles in, spiking out. Even for an overnighter, I would do that. And, you know, like, I was coming out of fire season and stuff. Like, I was in shape, I could do that. But yeah, I mean, that's. That's two or Three hours a walking in the mountains with a. With backpack stuff on. Like, it was. It was. You're committing resources to be in that far, and there are places where that's appropriate. But, you know, once again, as the years have gone on, I mean, I shot my elk last year less than a mile from the road.

Yeah.

And then like the year before that, it was like 600 yards. It's like, yeah, distance is great and sometimes you gotta get in there. Um, but recognizing when there's out close is also good. But that's just a skillset and knowing your area and like, kinda like being aggressive and knowing when to go in. Like, knowing when you don't need to go in as much.

So you had the. A tale of two elk hunts last year because you had the. The, you know, your tag, which you just said, you know, mile or whatever.

Yeah, in one day, but in one day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then you had. You had the hunt that you were helping on.

Oh, yeah.

And you guys backpacked in a life for that, right?

Yeah. I think that that was about seven miles for base camp and at, you know, 10,500ft or so in one of the more remote units in the lower 48. With. I mean, I don't want to go into, like, too much detail, of course, but, like, bears are around. Significant, like a lot of bears. Wilderness area. Very little access, very rugged. Yeah. And that was with. With Travis, who, funny enough, is another fella I met hunting in that same backcountry spot. And much like he was at the time a new elk hunter when I met him, that was year after Covid year. So 21 similar thing, like, ran into him. I actually called him in. I was hunting with a college buddy of mine, trying to call in a bull for him, and it kept, like, running in and out and just like, it was a little rack horn and just couldn't commit. And we hear like a wimpy bugle behind us, and we're like, that's a dude. And Travis had the intuition to be like, those guys are probably working a bull. Like, I'm in a. Not like he could tell that I was a guy. And he kind of stayed his distance, but we ended up running into him going back to camp at dark and just hit it off. And yeah, just like, similar thing. I was like, well, man, if you're like all the way back here, like, you're probably a pretty good dude. So, you know, kind of taking a lesson from my mentor, I asked if he wanted to hunt with us. And we hunted like, for a while together the next couple days. And yeah, I got into elk here and there, but kind of didn't. And we just had, like, a really good time bullshitting and had, like, a lot of things in common and the amount of, like, energy that we wanted to put into hunts and hunting and commitment and all that was very similar. So we exchanged numbers and we ended up. He had a cow tag in southeast Montana, which is an area that, you know, I've hunted deer in quite a bit and a lot of people have. It's no secret that there's like a ton of them there. Invited him. Like, hey, you know, a buddy of mine from California got a tag of Montana this year. We're gonna go do the wall tent thing out in this area. Your cow tags there. Like, if you're not done by then, you should come, like, hang out in a Walton with us. Drink beer. Because it gets dark at like, you know, late mid November. Yeah, it gets dark at like 5 o' clock and it doesn't get light till like 8. So, you know, we're laying down the barley pops and we. He said, yeah, so we. We're like, in camp. Me and my buddy Anthony, he shot a mule deer. That was pretty nice. Like a, you know, three and a half year old or so, four by three, um, we're packing this thing out in the moonlight. It was super cool. Kind of like us walking out from bear hunting last night. Just like shadows from the moon, no lights needed. And we get back to camp and I told Travis that, yeah, dude, wall tents right here. Go on in, start a fire, get cozy. You know, we'll see you when we get back. And we are. We're like, kind of cold. We're tired. And we just see like, the smoke rolling out of that stove pipe. We're like, oh, yes. So we get in there and we're bullshitting and. Yeah, man. Just had like, you know, when you get around a. A dude that you just have a ton of like, bullshit and chemistry with and you're just laughing the whole time and telling stories and stuff. It was like that. I mean, cool. The three of us are just really vibing and he. I kill a deer like two days later or so. It was like a big, really wide three by three. I. I wanted him to be a forky because I've tried. I've been hunting a forkasaurus for a while.

Just missed it.

Yeah, just like, you know, just like a stomp or two point, which is Instagram, by the way. And yeah, I had Crab claws. So, you know, but it was cool. It was like 28 outside or something for a three point, which is neat. But anyway, we were headed back to Missoula, me and Anthony, like, the next day. And Travis had, like, not really seen any elk. But he said that he thought he saw like a cow like 800 yards away from him at last light, like the day before.

Okay.

He's like, I don't even think it was real. Like, I think, like, because he had been hunting, I don't even know, 40 days at this point. This is his first year with an elk. No, no, that's not true. He had hunted in Colorado the year before. He's like, brand new to elk hunting, hadn't killed an elk yet. And that first season is just brutal. Trying to figure those things out because they're not like deer or whitetails. He's from the Midwest or anything like that. Like, it's like very different. And that's hard to explain until you've like, hunted elk a little bit and been successful. But I'm like, he's like, I don't know what to do, like, if I should go back to that same area or just like, try something totally new. Because he's like, I've been in there for a few days and not seen anything. I'm like, dude should go back to that spot again. Like one more day. And me and Yang sleep in. Travis has gone hunting, and we are eating bacon and packing up camp and drinking beer. And it's like 9 o' clock in the morning, maybe 8. And we look down the road and Walton's like, almost put away. And we see Travis, like, no pack, just running at us like, what's that all about? He gets to us. He's like, I did it. I shot a cow. And he like, shot this cow not that far from where camp was, probably a mile. And just like took off sprinting towards us to try to get us to be there and like, help him pack it out. And we're freaking stoked, man. Like, we. We get to that thing, it was like basically flat ground the whole way on a closed road. And yeah, first elk. There's a photo of us that's on our bookshelf over there of all of us, like, gripping, grinning, this thing. And Travis is chugging a beer and we're all just like, smiling. And I'm like, those are just like genuine happy laughs and, like, faces hurting from, like, being so stoked about it by shooting this cow.

That's so sweet.

We took every morsel of meat off of that thing. I mean, it was just awesome. Then, yeah, send him on his way. But that was kind of the start of like, a pretty close hunting partnership with Travis. I mean, he's been like, not just elk, but a lot of different kinds of hunting partner and for many years since then. And we just kind of fuel each other's flame a little too much on going deep into, you know, really stupid places. I mean, we just have this fascination with trying to hunt places that other people aren't. And that could be just due to, like, the ruggedness and crappiness of getting in there or distance, whatever, to the point where, honestly, like, he kind of scares me sometimes. Or I'm like, man, this may be like, too intense. Like, like, we drew a really good tag in New Mexico a few years ago, and Travis wanted to go hunt like, nine miles in. I'm like, dude, we can shoot a bull from the truck here. He's like, yeah, but think how big of a bull we could shoot, like, way in. Because he's like, nobody else is doing that because they're all thinking what you're thinking. And, yeah, I ended up shooting my biggest bull and him his biggest bull as well, like six miles in in a really good unit that nobody was packing in on. Yeah. But, yeah, that's like, just a little bit of background for the next part of this story where we had been observing this area for a few years and how lame it would be to get in there and pack an elk out of just due to distance and ruggedness, whatever, to the point where I'd been trying to kind of talk him out of it for a few years. I'm like, man, I don't really know if I want to do this, but, yeah, I got suckered into it. We both put in for the tag separately on the idea that one of us would draw maybe, and we could just, like, team hunt it, which is what we generally would do. Like, we kind of just party hunt as, you know, one guy's the shooter, whoever has the tag, and then we split the meat. And then, I mean, we've killed. We've both killed elk together the past since we've known each other. So generally you get like half of that guy's elk. And then I like shooting, like, spikes and rags. So then he gets half of my good tasting elk.

Yeah.

Which is why for appreciates. But he draws this tag. And, you know, we kind of spent all summer training for it. We. We went on a mountain goat hunt in southeast Alaska with my Cousin just to, you know, kind of guide with him and do that adventure and, you know, which is, like, dang near sea level. In fact, he lives at sea level in Ketchikan. And we. A couple weeks later, I'd been hunting grouse a ton up in the mountains with my dog, Just trying to, like, train him up and get him time. And I'm kind of smoked just from, like, hiking all day hunting grouse. And we meet at the trailhead, like, September 13th or something, to go back into this unit to go hunt. And, you know, we're gonna. We're intended to be out there, like, 10 days, so pretty heavy packs. I mean, probably 70 or 80 pounds. There's, like, a pretty intense climb right off the bat, and then over about 7 miles or so, about 3k feet of gain, which isn't that much, But, I mean, I don't know.

3K is, like. That's hefty.

I mean, I mean, it was a push, but, like, felt pretty good. I mean, we were pacing, like, very well. We weren't trying to get it, like, set any land speed records or anything like that. Yeah, we're just cruising. And, you know, I was just kind of noticing I was really feeling altitude. I mean, it was like, 10,000ft, which we live at 5. So that, you know, you'd kind of think, like, you'd be somewhat acclimated to that, but, I mean, you still feel it. And we had also, like, unaccomized, I think, a little bit going from sea level in. In Alaska. But, yeah, you know, kind of mentioned, like, yeah, you know, kind of feeling the altitude today, which is normal. I mean, like a day or two, you kind of acclimate a little better. You take an ibuprofen, then you're fine. Just keep drinking water. And we get up to where we wanted to camp in the wilderness and set up camp and kind of hoof it over to this big, like, ridge line where we can see into this big drainage. And there's just elk everywhere, man, like, bugling. And we're observing, like, bulls with cows and bulls just out doing their own thing. And, you know, a lot of, like, 300 class bulls, which we're looking for something like, a little bit bigger on this tag, but, like, awesome elk to see. It was just cool. Like, I have some photos of that. Just, like, beautiful country. One of the, like, more wild places around in the Rockies. So that was just, like, neat to be there. And, yeah, it was just awesome. And we're, like, daydreaming about, like, we Just wanted to, like, take the temperature of what's going on that night. So we just glassed and listened and, like, observed with the intent of, like, tomorrow morning let's do the same thing, see what's going on. Find a herd with the bull we like and then try to, like, slip in there and do an evening play on that when they start to get up out of their beds and, like, be elk. So next day we're sitting up in that same spot, same thing, just elk everywhere, bugling. This raghorn actually walks up to us at like 30 yards. Like, we're on a big open hillside. Like, there's no cover. We're just sitting there, like, drinking coffee. And this rag horn is, like, walking straight up the hill towards us. I can see something's there, but isn't quite sure what's going on. And he just keeps coming closer. We're just sitting still. And I remember, I'll never forget this. Like, we're on the. I want to say, like, looking into the west. So the sun's coming up at our backs and this drainage is just, like, cloaked in shadow. And the sun is, like, peeking over the top of the ridge enough that the top of this bull's antlers are, like, lit up and glowing in the sunlight, but the rest of them is not. Yeah, that photo of this dude, it was so sweet. It was incredible. It was like something out of Lord of the Rings. But, yeah, eventually, you know, he runs off. But we observe a bull. Well, there was one really nice one that was like another four miles past, like, deeper.

And you see him in the spotting.

Scope, you're like, oh, yeah, man, he was real. He was something. And we, we were like, naming stuff just so we know what bull were talking about. When we're like, classing like this. That was like the main event or something because he was like, he was the main event, but, you know, observed that he was, you know, on a different planet at this point.

Yeah.

And there was another bull that Travis was like, I'd shoot that bull, like a nice bull with cows very close, like just other side of the drainage. So we watched him and what kind of observed them as they made their way into what we presumed to be where they were going to bed, waited a little bit, and then there's no water up high. So we had to, like, drop down into the drainage to find water and then actually, like, go down quite a way it. And yeah, I don't know, about 10 o' clock or so, we peel off into this drainage and get Water. And there's grouse everywhere, which was just, like, something I noticed because I'm fond of grouse. And we start, like, hiking up the north side. We went down, like, the south. Yep.

The open side.

The open side, yeah. We start hiking, and it's steep. I mean, it's. It's.

There's cliffs and there's rocks, and it's open.

Yeah, it's. It's. It's gnarly. We start hiking up, like, the north side, which is steep and loose and rocky and got a lot of timber and all that. And not that the south side is devoid of timber, just much less got quite a bit of water because, you know, we're in there for many days. The less we have to go down into the basin and spread scent around, we figured the better because, you know, we just don't want the elk to know we're there until the time's right, if we can. Because I just figure that doesn't hurt. Yep. Hiking up their. Their. The other side of the ridge, I'm like, man, I'm really feeling the altitude today. Like, just kind of not able to make as much of a pitch per push in the climb that I'm normally thinking I'm able to. Heart rate's running a little high, and I'm just feeling like a. And like, Travis kind of noticed I was a little slow and mentioned something. I'm just like, yeah, dude, just, like, feeling the altitude. Heart's running a little high and just out of breath. And we get up, I don't know, 1200, 1500ft or so, and stop to eat lunch and just kind of like, there's this big, like, rocky outcropping that came out of the head of the basin that we were hanging out in, mainly so that we could, like, listen and kind of observe the area that the elk had gone into bed, which was, like, on a benchy thing, like, ding. Near the bottom of the drainage, of course. Yeah. You know, cooler, shadier, flatter. And we're like. We want to be, like, way away from this, but in listening range and looking range just to, like, watch them do their thing. And then, you know, we like to slip in there, like, three or four o' clock and kind of be or around them in, like, a, you know, striking distance of whatever happens and just, like, let them kind of mess up somehow. So, yeah, we eat lunch. I take a nap, which I'm also fond of. And yeah, just, like, my resting heart rate was, like, 100 or 110 or so, just Never really, like, calming down. And felt pretty good, though. Like, not a ton of appetite. Took them ibuprofen and was drinking water. But, yeah, just, like, not feeling great. And then we kind of. About the time it's time to start getting over there, loop around to get on their side of the ridge, the north aspect. And it was, like, a little bit of up and down to do that. And I was just noticing, like, man, the up is, like, tough right now. Like, going, like, a hundred feet on, like, an uphill pitch. I'd have to, like, stop and catch my breath really quick.

Oh, boy.

And, yeah, about, I don't know, an hour later and a mile later or less, we get to another spot that's, like, more above where the elk are, and I started, like, coughing here and there. And, yeah, still just, like, getting harder and harder to catch the breath. Never really, like, chilling out much. And Travis, like, starts mentioning, like, dude, are you, like, okay? Because, you know, you don't sound great. You're coughing, like, what's going on? And I'm like, dude, like, this altitude's just kicking my ass, you know? Like, I'll be fine, though. Like, I just need to keep drinking water and go slow. And he's like, do you need to, like, go back to camp? Like, do you need to chill? What's going on? I'm like, no, no. Like, this is it. Like, this is your hunt. This is the first day. Like, I'm not gonna be the one to out. Like, I got this. I can take it. And we start, like, pitching down in, like, moving in.

Moving in to kind of, like, get in position for.

Yeah, like, the thermals are still coming up, so we're trying to get above them, but, like, offset so that when the thermals switch, we're still downwind, and. But we're, like, uphill, so we could move quick to get into, like, where you'll try to cut them off, basically, and get the wind good matter where they go. And we start moving down, and there's, like, little, like, little finger undulations in the ridge. Like, we're mostly going down, but there's, like, a little bit up here and there. And it got to the point where, like, going up, like, 20 or 30ft would nuke me. And, yeah, we, like, the elk end up, like, going the worst possible way, just, like, straight down the drainage. Like, no way for us to really get in front of them while keeping wind good. I mean, we'd have to, like, run with bad wind to catch up to them. So, like, not Gonna happen today. So we stop with class, we listen, and we try to cold call a little bit just in case there's something around and nothing's happening. Then it's getting to be like, 5, 5:30, and we're, like, realizing, like, man, I'm like, really slow. Like, we should probably, like, leave now to get back to camp, glass the evening and then, like, give me some time to, like, rest and, like, get over the altitude thing. So we hike down to the bottom, fill up water again, and we kind of, like, move up the drainage along the creek bed, which is dry in places. Dry and not. And we start, like, walking up the south aspect, like, you know, straight attacking the hill, like, going to go up it, because then we're at the top, we can glass and kind of get ready for tomorrow. And, yeah, it was like, resting heart rate of 130, 120, never catching the breath. Like, if you went and ran up a hill really quick, like, doing hill sprints, like, you. At the top of the hill was me resting and, like, coughing all over, not feeling great. And I go about 100 yards, and I'm like, man, like, by the way, there's elk bubbling all around us. And I'm, like, trying to talk Travis into, like, look, man, I'll keep walking up, but, like, go kill an elk. You should try to, like, go kill one of these bulls.

Yeah.

He's like, I don't think I'm gonna do that. That, like, he definitely thought about it. He's like, no. Like, let's get you at the top of the hill. And I'm like, not even a fifth of the way up the hill. I'm like, dude, like, I can't believe I'm about to say this, but I think I need you to carry my pack.

Oh, boy.

So he's like, okay. He hikes to the top. Travis is a machine, by the way. He's, like, very into running and cardio. Like, the guy can. His resting heart rate's probably 30 hikes to the top of the hill. Drops his back, comes back down. And while he was doing that, I was just sitting on a log watching grouse, like, walk by and fly at me and just be weird. And, yeah, like, was breathing and heart beating. Like, I was sprinting while sitting there for, like, 20 minutes and, like, coughing a bunch and just, like, trying to drink water and trying to just, like, catch breath and stay calm. And, you know, of course, in your brain, you're like, well, you know, there is this thing called high altitude pulmonary edema. But it's like, super rare, and we're only at 10k feet, so, you know.

What are the chances?

Yeah, like, nah, it ain't that, but yeah. Travis comes back down, grabs my pack, and we start just, like, walking up the hill. And I would, like, pick a rock five feet away and be like, I'm. Get to that rock without stopping. And I would, like, get to the rock and then, like, catch my breath for five minutes and then, like, pick another rock. And over about. I don't know, I think there was probably 1200ft, maybe 1500ft of climbing. We started the pitch up at around 6, I think, 10 o'. Clock. I got to the top.

Oh, no.

And Travis is just up there eating dinner, hanging out. It's like dark moonlight shadows. And I just like, collapse on the ground next to him. And I'm just like, you know, I don't even know. 180. Heart rate, like, and cannot stop coughing, spitting shit up. And I'm like, dude, I just want to go to fucking bed. Like, I just want to go lay down and sleep. And the tent was, like, flat ground, I don't know, 200 yards away from the, like, that lip of the ridge and walk over there. And t man's like, trying to, like, egg me on, to, like, give me. Give him more info. He's a nurse. Give him more info what's going on? And I'm just kind of like, trying to brush it off. And I'm like, oh, you know, like, maybe it's ape. And we get to the tent, we had cell service up there, thank God. And we're just like, googling it. And, yeah, all signs point towards high altitude pulmonary edema and.

Which is real bad.

It's not what you want. And we. I'm basically like, dude, I just want to go to sleep. And it's like, very, very clear on the Google WebMD that that's the last thing you should do if you're coming down with hape. Like, you need to get down, like, yesterday kind of thing. So I'm like, all right, well, you know, we can. If I need to drop altitude, like, we could just start walking the trail back and, like, we'll be dropping altitude, so I'll be, like, doing better and better, right? And he's like, dude, like, I'm pretty sure you'll just collapse in like 200 yards. And then, like, because we're like six miles from the big pitch, so we don't really drop much altitude until basically the truck, like, right above it. Yeah, yeah. We're already at like 10 miles for the day and it's like 11 o'. Clock. We're on top of this ridge and I'm like laying down in the tent. We, you know, one of those seek outside cimarrons and just cannot stop coughing. Like, could barely talk and just like spitting up. And then you start thinking about like hell, like, do I need to push the button? Yeah, you know the one. Yeah. On the inreach, decide, like, I have cell service. Like, I'm just going to call 911 because, like, I can't do. Like, this is not good. Hape is super treatable. Like, you know, you don't want to be the one to like have to like admit your mortality. But I was like, I just didn't see another way, so. And a lot of this is Travis. Like, if Travis wasn't there, I probably would have tried to walk out, which.

Would have been, knowing what we know.

Now, I would have died.

Would have been fatal. Yeah.

Yeah. And luckily we're like on the top of this ridge that's completely devoid of trees. Perfect helicopter landing zone. I mean, had I not like made it up that hill, I probably would have not made it out of there. But Yeah, I called 911 and after about 20 minutes and communicating with like different search and rescue people, a helicopter out of Salt Lake is coming to get us. And you know, we'll be there in like 15 minutes. And you know, I call my mom, I call our former roommate Alex, who's a flight medic, kind of filling him in on what's going on. And everyone's pretty concerned. I'm pretty sure my mom bought a plane ticket like two minutes after I hung up with her to tell her, like heading to the ICU or ER and wherever, talk to pilot. The pilots get there, they land. I'm holding on to the TP because they're landing like 50 yards away, trying to keep my, my TP from blowing away. And Travis is like flagging him down with the strobe on his headlamp and like saunter my way over there, barely able to breathe, coughing, coughing, coughing, and kind of like am able to squeeze out what I think is going on. And they throw me in the little stretcher chair in the helicopter and hook me up to like whatever the, the things so they can see your vitals on the screen. Thing is, and I guess my O2 was like 60 and they like put this mask on my face and start pumping me with something. And dude, it was like immediately really relief. Oh, wow. Like, I was, like, insane. Like, could start breathing and just. I think, like, a lot of it's just the calming factor of, like, I'm like, they're taking care of safe. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, I'm where. Like, this was the right choice. I'm where I need to be. And, yeah, they kind of, like, do some. Whatever they do on helicopters. Things strap me in and they're talking to me, figuring out what's going on. Their humor was great. Travis tries to get them to take my pack, and they're like, no, that ain't gonna fit. Because, I mean, it's like, a tight fit. But they. Yeah, I mean, they're giving me meds through the aerator and, like, tons of oxygen. I was on, like, four liters, I guess, and the sputum, like, the fluid in my lungs just starts, like, coming out. Like, if you're, like, really drunk and you start throwing up where you don't even need to, like, hurl over a toilet, it's just, like, coming up. It was like that, like, coming out of the mask, and the guy's like, we're, you know, flying to the ER at this point, and the guy's like, is that puke or is that fluid? I'm like, dude, it's fluid. Like, I've ridden helicopters a little bit. Like, I ain't getting sick. Like, this is just involuntary, man. And, yeah, I guess I improved. Like, my blood O2 saturation improved quite a bit just flying to the ER and we get there, they get me out of the helicopter, they slide me in, and, you know, they put me on, like, a bipap kind of thing, like, pressurized breathing thing. And, yeah, just spent, I don't know, dang near a week. And, well, you know, I was out of the ER on a day and then or a night, whatever, and then woke up in the icu, and I'm, like, just breathing in this pressurized thing for, like, days and, like, clearing the fluid out and stuff. And then was slowly able to start, like, walking and was able to keep my, like, blood O2 saturation, like, at 99, 198, whatever it was supposed to be without the, like, oxygen in the mask anymore. But, yeah, whatever. Like, the prognosis was after some deliberation, like, high altitude pulmonary edema, which is fairly uncommon at that altitude, but, like, can happen. And, you know, there could have been other factors at play, like medication I'm on or being at sea level, and, like, the exertion I was already into, which I Know, grouse hunting doesn't sound like something that should be really kicking your ass before an elk hunt. But, like, we were trying real hard. Yeah. Young dog and just hiking a lot at, like, high altitude and. Yeah. Just for whatever combination of reasons or so that was the. The diagnosis. Funny enough, like, the ER or the ICU doctor I had is a. Is the brother in law of a buddy of ours, like one of our backcountry ski partners. And I've mountain biked with him a few times since then. And he was like, oh, yeah, dude, you were fucked up. Like, your lungs looked horrible. He's like, we thought you were gonna die. He's like, not really. Not really. But yeah, just like, tons of doctors coming in, like, very interested in the case, so they're like, taking notes and stuff. And I was just like, wow, they're so, like, befuddled by this. Like, that's not a good sign. But, no, I made a full recovery. I was hunting sage grouse with the dog and somebody's like, five days after I got out and a month later, shot a bull in a day at like 9,000ft and packed it out. Not super far. Yeah. But, you know, like. Yeah. And then skied all winter at 9, 10K feet. Pretty heavy physical stuff. Like, doesn't seem like there's any lasting effects from that. Or, like, I'm sure there's a little bit of if you get hate, you know, you're a little more likely to get it again. So it's definitely gonna be in the back of my mind forever. But, like, I've been doing stuff at altitude and it doesn't seem like I'm getting it again, which is comforting. Which is good.

Yeah. But I remember I. I was in between hunts, like the 17th, 18th of September, and you were still down for the count. So, like, four days later.

I remember you came in pretty early when I was in the icu. Hung out with me. That was cool.

Yeah. It's kind of crazy, though. We were going. Well, you weren't going a bunch of directions after that or until week or two later, but we just never sat down and actually talked about the story. Like, this is the first time I've actually heard all the details.

I'll be damned. I'm sorry about that.

It's okay. We got it now.

We tend to have too much to talk about.

I know. God, man. Yeah. I'm glad that it turned out the way it did because that got me scary. Yeah.

Yeah. And I mean, it was just like a. A brush with Mortality and reality that I maybe didn't need. Yeah. But, you know, the. The likelihood of that happening, that's like part of why so many doctors and medical students in the area are interested in coming to talk about it with me. Because, like, young, fit dude that lives at 5055, whatever the heck lander is. Thousand feet going up to like 10, 5. It's like kind of not who you'd think was going to get high altitude pulmonary edema. Like, that's something that if someone from Arkansas came to Colorado to elk Hunt at 12. Yeah, 12, you know, that's like, more likely. And it can happen anywhere above 8, 000ft. And physical fitness apparently makes, like, no difference. Like, it doesn't affect your risk factor at all. But it's just like a demonstration of how weird the body is and how, you know, conditions like that can kind of just develop. And that's a little scary because. Yeah, I never thought something like that would happen to me. And there I was sitting in a helicopter wondering how much this was gonna cost, which. Thank God for health insurance. While they're like, pumping into me and like, making jokes and stuff. It's actually pretty fun. But yeah, I mean, due to like, all those factors of like, one, the it can't happen to me thing, due to like, all the things I've talked about, like, of why that is unlikely and also, like, the scariness of the cost for a helicopter ride out of the mountains and then a week in the icu. It makes you, like, very gun shy to push the button. And funny enough, like, I didn't actually push the button because I might. We had cell Service. I called 911. Yeah. Which I did because I figured it'd be easier to communicate. And you know what? I feel like that might have saved some time. And for sure, like heck, who knows, Another hour, like, I might have needed that.

Yeah, no doubt.

But for the sake of the story, I really wish I'd pushed the button because it's like the forbidden button.

And this was a good opportunity to push.

This was the time to push the button. Yeah. And then another detail for, for the listeners, I guess, is if you have that, like, additional insurance on your inreach plan for like, the search and rescue stuff only kicks in if you push the button.

Oh, interesting.

So that you can't use that unless you push the button.

Okay. So it actually, for insurance purposes, if you have that, it actually might be helpful.

I would push the button. Yeah. Even if you're going to call 91 1, I would still push the button and just say, like, yep, this is the same call.

Got it.

Just a little tip.

That's a good. I mean, hopefully a tip nobody has.

To use, but that's what I'm saying.

It is one of those things, though. Like, at the end of the day, I would much rather someone push the button and realize maybe they pushed it prematurely.

Right.

Than to go the other side of the coin.

Yeah. I mean, I would have my. I'm much like, hindsight's always 20 20. Yeah. But I almost died because I was too, too much, too much. I had too much pride to push the button. Yeah. Like, I know, and I'm not kidding. Like, hours. Yeah.

You were jacked up.

I mean, it was not good.

Like I said, four days later, you're still jacked up. Like, I mean.

Yeah, I mean. And you know what? Like, I was just really happy and lucky to have, like, our friends and family and my family show up the way they did when that happened. Yeah. Like, I mean, our friend Rachel broke into our house to bring me books. She did say it was really easy. So, yeah, we might need to. We might need to, like, lock some windows one of these days. But, yeah, I mean, you know, just be aware of, like, the things you're at risk for in the mountains. Like, having that knowledge is, I think, part of preparing and that's part of, like, it's almost. That's more important than knowing where to go hunt. Yeah. Is recognizing, like, risk factors and then, like, being strong enough to admit when you're at risk or when you're sick or not. Well, whatever.

For sure.

That was probably the hardest thing I've ever done.

It was intense, man. And just being like your friend, I was just like, this was. It was scary for me and I was like, I'm not even in the situation. I was just like, holy crap.

Yeah.

So. But I guess there was, like a silver lining there. Like a 200 inch silver lining. Hey, sorry to interrupt, but I want to make sure that you knew that we're going back to Argentina in 2026 and you are invited. If you'd like to come down to Argentina, there's only a couple spots left. So if you've heard the podcast that we've done and you want to go back and chase Argentina Red Stag with me, be sure to reach out. Jadenuntwest.net We've only got a couple spots for 2026, and we're also going to try to fill up the whole lodge in 2027. So let me know, and if you haven't listened to those podcasts, go back and do it. It's going to be an awesome time and I'd love it if you joined us. All right, back to the show. You're listening to the Hunt west podcast. Because I mean, I know that you had planned to hunt some low country for deer, but then it was like that was kind of your option.

Yeah, Option. Right. Yeah. Cuz like it was. Things weren't very clear after that event of like, you know, continued risk. How long do I need to heal? Like they did say like probably don't go back up to 10k feet for a, you know, a little while while. Yeah, right. And I mean I listened for. Shot my elk three and a half weeks after that at 9k feet. So I kind of. But like deer.

But we didn't go to 10 until January, whatever, when we ski backcountry skiing.

Yeah, well, I had haunted grouse a little bit.

Okay.

Over the, over the fall at 10. But you know, like intense physical exertion at altitude. Yeah, not really. Yeah, yeah. But you know, I kind of had my eye on some local. I know what you're getting into here. Kind of had my eye on some low country, no name desert stuff to hunt deer in anyway, just because I don't know, man, like around Lander we. And we've talked about this like within, you know, a reasonable early mornings drive for day hunting, everything's kind of already, I would say not. Not claimed. But people that we're close to are already like have their favorite areas and as like fairly new guy to the area. I've only lived here almost three years now. Oh yeah? Yeah, actually nearly three years. I'm like, kind of, kind of like the new kid in town and like the hunting scene more or less to like, you know, the serious hunters or Lander that's not to befuddle or turn, you know, degrade anybody else. But just like the people who are really into hunting, all the like little spots that are any good are kind of already like known about and like, you know, very much appreciated by somebody. So I've been like trying to find a place of like, all right. Where some deer that nobody's watching that I can slip in there and like have a good time and not like be stepping on somebody's toes, which is a thing unfortunately. And I mean, yeah, it's all public land and go wherever I want. But like, I don't know, I don't want to like, I don't like seeing other people in my areas that I like, I don't. I didn't want to, like, be that guy, to just, like, slip into somebody else's area, especially if they've already shown me that. I mean, you've shown me a ton of areas that I've come and just helped you glass in. Like, I don't want to come into your areas and just, like, kill your deer. Not that they're your deer, but, you.

Know, that's where my mentality is. Like, I have one tag, dude.

Like, so there is, but I don't know, man. Like, I guess I'm just, like, selfish and project that onto people.

Yeah.

But, like, I wanted to strike out and find some stuff and some deer that other people aren't, like, babysitting, basically. And, yeah, I kind of had my eye on that area that's, like, pretty far away, middle of nowhere. Nothing you read about online. Like, even, like, you can't find info about it because nobody's hunting it. And even being out there, like, on the main roads, like, nobody's around because you don't see any deer. There's not a lot of deer there. And yeah, it was a low country. So, yeah, this is just like a week and a half after I got out of the icu. I was like, I'm gonna go hunt out there. And I had, like, been in there a little bit already and just found a couple sheds that I was like, this is like, a fairly nice. This is like a nice three and a half year old. Like, if this dude got a year bigger, he could be, like, pretty good. And I'm like, if he shed antlers, like, I mean, he pro. Some of them probably did. Yeah. Because, like, a backstory here is. I, I, Due to season dates, I had hunted this unit the year prior and killed, like, an okay, like, three and a half year old, three or four, that I will remark the ground shrinkage on was incredible. He had a tiny body, but it's like a nice buck. And I was proud of him. But I was like, yeah, I mean, like, I. If that deer got a year bigger, he'd be a nice buck. And I'm not looking for. To, like, you know, freaking blow up the Internet or anything. Not that that matters. Like, I just want, like, a nice deer. I just like to go hunting. I don't want to, like, fill my freezer and figured, like, yeah, you know, it's quiet out there. Like, I find some solitude, which I kind of needed at that point because the overwhelming support from friends and family of being sick Was I needed some space.

You're like. Like, this is excellent, but also, like, probably a lot.

Yeah. Matt's going into the desert to solo hunt for a week, like, with no cell phone. And got out there and. I don't know. I think I started hunting, like, a day after the season opened in this area and saw one deer glassing all day. It was hot.

Yeah.

85, 90 degrees during the day.

I was up at 11,000ft in a different mountain range, and it was hot up there, and you're down there in the desert. And I was just like, holy shit. Yeah.

Yeah. I spent a lot of time sleeping in the back of my truck midday and, like, reading books, you know, just like, trying to, like, preserve my. Like, stay, not over exert my. My glassing muscles.

Yeah, yeah.

So I can keep my head in the game for, like, the days that I thought it would take to, like, find a deer that I wanted to shoot, which wasn't even much. It was, like, basically, like, four points on both sides. I was like, awesome. Yeah. So, yeah, three days in, I had seen, like, three deer and, you know, probably four side by sides. Drive by the whole time.

You're probably getting lonely. You're like, gosh, it would be nice if somebody drove by.

Yeah, dude, I wanted to talk to somebody, but all these fellas were gruff, wearing the camo Carhartt jacket. So I wouldn't, you know, they didn't look happy I was there. So I. That morning, like, I'm kind of just like, slowly. This, like, big coolie country. So I'm, like, slowly working different coolies and trying to glass in, like, angles that I figure other people aren't. Because, like, the easy thing would be, like, to park on the road and, like, walk 20 yards and glass into the coolie. And I'm like, one, the shade is on what's under me. And two, if everybody's doing it, like, the deer that habitually are doing that in my mind are, like, already getting shot. So I'm like, okay, you know, I'm gonna try to, like, look at stuff that other people aren't looking at. So I would, like, hike two miles in and look back at the road. And yeah, three days in, hiking around a little bit. I found a couple sheds, by the way, that I was like, that's a nice shed. So I was probably at, like, six sheds over the three days, because midday I'd just be bored and I'll just go hike. I'm also, like, scouting for chukar always when I'm in any Place that has cheatgrass. So that's part of it. But you know if there's sheds around, nothing's migrating in this area. Like there's deer around. Where the heck are they? So I'm like way back in, looking back up the coulee in the shade and I see a couple does. I'm like that's more deer than I've seen in days. And in the shade about. Yeah, almost like under the main road. I mean 200 yards from it. But like in a coolie, so steep as heck below the road there's like two bucks walking. And you know I like was looking and looking, looking. There's a lot of heat waves already at 7:30 in the morning.

And I'm like it was so dirty hot. That was October. Last October.

Yeah. In the background to a lot of friends and colleagues at work were like fighting that elk fire up in the big horns.

Oh yeah.

And I was, I was far and you could still see the column. So I'm like aha. They were at work, you know, in that horrible record setting fire season of Wyoming. I had done my part at that point. Yep. These deer like kind of feeding but moving like they're getting into bed soon. And I'm like looking really close through my spotter with my phone, you know, mag view thing, like on the thing like zoomed in all the way. I'm like that book looks pretty good. You know, I figured like 160. I think I even sent you a Snapchat of that. Yeah, like shooter, you know, I think he's 160. I'm going for it. So I like drive back up the road with my feet and get to like basically my truck and then I like get on this little spur ridge that comes down into the middle of the coulee a ways and I think like looking at Onx and then just like visually what I had seen, I think like from there I can get within range of about where those deer were. And I figured like, you know what, it's getting hot, there's shade in there. Like I bet you they're going to be in there somewhere. And I'll you know, if I'm like patient and careful like I might be able to find them. There's like a lot of places to hide. Just topography and cuts and folds and steep nasty washes and stuff. I mean like old Wyoming desert. So hoof it over there, bust like four coveys of chukar which I marked and I'm like belly crawling up to the top of this Finger ridge so I can glass like, as I rise. Because you can see more and more as you come up and over. You know, this dang well and glass up. The smaller buck, like, bedded in this, like, deserty white clay, ash kind of stuff, like that hard kind of dirt that's just been baked by the sun like a cake. And he's bedded there, and he's like, 500 yards. So then I, like, scoot up a little further. Then I see, like, bigger deer, you know, high and tight, like, not wide, tall. Looks like he's got pretty good forks. I'm like, sick. There he is. So, like, shimmy might pack in front of me and put my rifle over the top of it and get my rear rest set. And I'm, like, taking my time. There's no wind. Consult my dope set, my parallax, like, get zeroed in. And yeah, I. The deer is bedded, like, dang near frontal facing me.

Okay.

And I think it was, like, 495 or so range. So I lay it on him and just watch my crosshairs sit on him, like, not moving for, like, five minutes. And just felt like I was in a really good place.

No wind.

No wind. And I practice shooting a lot. Yeah, I used to shoot competitively, so I'm, like, comfortable. 500. I think that's not a ridiculous range. I mean, is a frontal shot, but I'm like, I could do this. Like, I feel good about this. So, yeah, I press that trigger into my shoulder and watch. I watch the vapor trail and then impact. And that deer, like, it just smokes him. The deer's head, like, flops over, and then he, like, doesn't even move for a minute. I was watching the scope, like, still clicked in. Like, I didn't even release the trigger yet. And he kicks a little bit and kind of slides down, and then that was all. And then I, like, scoot up the rest of the way. And by the way, the sound of the. The report from impact when you have a suppressor.

Yeah.

That is incredible.

That might be the most satisfying sounds.

It's cathartic.

Yeah.

So I shimmy up, and I can see, like, the whole in out of this. Like, nothing can come in and out of this, like, spur coulee, if that makes sense. Like, think of, like, a ridge, but the reverse of that is a coulee. And, like, the spur ridges, you know, the spur coulee, whatever. I made that up. Just, like, the little, like, cuts on the side of the coulee. Like, nothing can Come in and out. So I watched that for, like, 30 minutes and nothing. That other deer, like, kind of made his way out of there because he was. And. But he was alone. But he was upset that his buddy was gone. I was, like, very confused. So he slips out, and I'm just sitting there, and, yeah, I'm like, well, all right. That deer was 150 yards below the road. Like, I'm going to go back to my truck, drive around and get above it, and then just, like, go down there and, you know, like, hell, yeah. Got my deer. I'm gonna go home and do that. And as I'm, like, walking down to where the deer should be, I'm, like, expecting, like, yeah, you know, like, I'm not trying. I. I say antler scores a lot to communicate size, but it's not because I'm, like, out here looking for trophies or anything. Like, that's just an easy and efficient way if you know how to judge deer, to communicate how big a deer is. And I think that that's just, like, an important detail. I mean, if you're, like, talking about what kind of car you saw, you want to be able to see what color it is. Yeah. So that's not me nerding out on, like, Boone and Crockett or anything like that, because I don't care. I mean, you've seen, like, the. The deer in my rafters in my. My bedroom. It's like, you know, a lot of. All right, deer, and that's good enough. I'm walking up to this thing, and I see his feet sticking out from behind a knob of dirt and the shadow of his antlers on the sand, like, just past him. And I'm like, it's, like, hot, by the way. It's like 9 o' clock and, like 80 yard already. And I'm sweating and there's bugs, but I'm like, oh, dang, that's nice. And then I'm, like, walking a little closer, and then the. The. The shadows. Like, I'm just like, that's really nice. And I come around the corner of that dirt, and I, like, lay eyes on it, and I'm like, oh. And he just has velvet sticking out and all over the place. Junk everywhere. His forks are ridiculous. And the mass. Yeah, I mean, you've handled this deer. He's like, cocaine mass.

Yeah. And it goes all the way out, too. It doesn't lose it.

And he's, like, scooped out at the tips of his tines and everything. It's just like, I didn't know, they made him like this.

And the more that you look, the more points you find.

Yeah.

Super sweet.

I think he's like 13 on one side and nine on the other. Yeah. And you know, through like all the glass I was observing him in and like, honestly, the limited amount of time I watched him, the mass, it doesn't really come through. You can't see the stickers due to the lighting of like looking into the sun, which by the way, I skipped the detail watching him through the scope. I had to wait for the sun to rise more because I couldn't.

Oh, geez.

Because he was directly in between me and the sun, so it's just like white. And I had to wait for the sun to get up further so I can actually like see through the scope. But yeah, like, never got a good visual of the steer and you know, assessment of like, what's going on upstairs and then the lack of width. I mean, I think he's like 19 outside. You look at the width and that kind of like your brain is like, oh, big or small. But it, I mean, score wise, it's not that much. I mean, it matters. But the difference between a 19 and a 30 is like 11 points. Whatever. If you're looking at Boone and Crockett. But your brain just tells you why deer equal big deer. So I didn't really think big deer. And like last year when I shot a deer like a mile from this location, I walked up to it and it just got smaller and smaller, which I'm like, oh, okay. And then this one, I was expecting that and it got bigger and I like get up to it. I'm handling it and looking at it and I'm like, I don't even know how to score. Like, what this deer is. Yeah, it's just like big. Yeah. And I'm like, I might need to like mount this deer. And I've never done that. So I, I kind of, I think I said in text to you, like, I think he's like 180.

Yeah.

So I caped him out and man, you have never seen someone load a deer in the back of a truck as sneakily as I did this one. Like quartered out, you know, head and cape put away. And I got the meat all up to the coolers and like very sneakily, like, nobody knew. There's not. I swear there was no traffic on this road until that day. And then like, suddenly there's like oil people driving around and there's like other side by sides and stuff. And I'm like, hiding in the grass, like, below the ridge of the coolie, like, waiting for stuff to go by. Like, you get a mile away before I run up and put meat in the cooler. And then, like, go back down, get the cape. And, man, I ran up the hill, threw it in the truck in the back, covered it up, and then, like, peeled out of there, came home, and, yeah. Like, hours later, caught you, like, on your way out to go to another hunt. Yeah. At the dentist. And then, like, immediately leaving and. Yeah. Parked in the parking lot of the dentist. And, like, you come over and I drop the tailgate. You're like, oh, you know, like, look at the scoops. And, like, all the mass. Whatever. And then, like, dropped it off at the taxidermist. Was, like, sending photos to some friends. And I didn't take any good photos of this deer. Like, I'm like, all by myself.

I mean, they're nice, artistic, like, but.

You don't really know what's going on.

Yeah, it's really hard to tell until you hold that thing.

Yeah.

Sweet.

Yeah. And, like, the taxi, you know, I'm like, hey, I want the antlers back after you get the face cap. The face skinned out and, you know, skull cap. Like, I wanna. I wanna keep those. I wanna score it and show my friends, my dad and stuff and pick them up that same day in the evening. And then, like, our buddy Gray comes over and he, like, writes onto the paper what he thinks it is, and he's like, man, that deer might go 190. And we score that thing. And it was, I think, 209 and 7/8. Gross. Non. Typical.

Yeah.

Then, yeah, I mean, it was like, you look at it, you're like, I don't see it.

Yeah.

But he just has so much junk and so much mass that he carries out, and his forks are so deep that it is all there. I think seven people have scored that deer, and it's all over 200. Yep. And you scored it. Like, you posted on your Instagram and some dude messaged you, like, I don't see it. So you scored it and it was, you know, it's, like, as tight of a tape as you could have.

I, like. Yeah, I was, like, rounding down everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, I still got. It was like, 199. 78 or something.

Yeah.

And that was way after the drawing, though.

You think about, like, six months later.

My 170 buck shrunk up to 163.

Yeah.

And you got way more. I mean, as a percentage, you technically should Lose way more. But, yeah. No, like, it was.

Yeah, it was a true.

He's a true.2 hundo, right?

And, you know, like, a week and a half after I got out of the ICU for hunting too hard in an area, like, a. Like, 10% success rate.

Yeah.

No big deer. I mean, you would talk to the biologist in that unit and years prior, and you're like, they don't get bigger. And I just felt like I got struck by lightning and was like, well, that's cool. That's never gonna happen again. Yeah. Then, I mean, we got age data back, and that deer was four and a half years old.

That's so nuts, man. I mean, he just was. He just had the right food, the right genetics. He just had it. He just had it, man.

Whatever the recipe is. Yeah, he read it.

I know. That's so sick, too. It was really awesome that, like. Yeah. We pulled teeth. You pulled teeth data. And we were able to, like, put all these pieces together because we didn't know. I mean, just looking at it, we didn't know, dude.

It's like. Yeah. I mean, looking at it, trying to fill. Judge it, you're like, I don't even know, man. Because he doesn't, like, just due to where he carries his mass and the junk and the. And the. The forks and all that. Like, I'm not that great at scoring deer, especially on the hoof. I'm like, I have no idea what this thing is, but. Yeah. Hit the magic number. Yeah.

It's one of those things where, you know, there's like, two types of. There's kind of two types of deer hunters. Right. Right now, the guys who want to hunt every year and know that if they hunt every year, they'll find a deer of a lifetime.

Yeah.

And then the guys who just want a perfect tag and then go get a deer of a lifetime.

Right.

The one time they go or whenever. I'm so much more in your camp on this thing is like, I would rather hunt every year.

Yeah.

And then have lightning strike or, like, you know, the other piece of this, though, is, like, we'd say lightning strikes, but you got to be doing all the right things. You got to be understanding how you're glassing and beating out pressure and, like. Like, you're saying you're glassing under the road, not glassing where everyone else is.

Right.

Like, those are the things that. But that's the recipe to freaking find. Find something special.

Yeah. And I think, like, I mean, we always talk about this when we're Discussing hunting and finding spots to go hunt. Like, I'm always like, look, man, I've just observed over the years. And I did this, too, for a long time. Like, everybody kind of listens to the same media and watches the same videos and shit of, like, how to. How to learn hunt or what other people are doing. And I just, like, notice, like, a lot of people kind of do the same thing, and you end up in, like, a lot of the same places and looking at things the same way. And I'm like. I'm just trying to figure out, like, weird ways to think outside the box. And that's one of the reasons I went to this, like, crappy unit, was like, well, no one else is. Yeah. And there's deer there. So, like, somebody's got a. Like, there's, you know, why not there. Yeah. And I mean, I'm not saying, like, I'm freaking Nostradamus and know where all the big deer are. Like, I just got lucky. But, you know, just trying to do things a little differently and, like, get off the beaten path a little bit and look at stuff in, like, different angles.

Yeah.

I think is, like, what enabled that opportunity to happen.

I think it's so much more impressive, personally, to find a giant in places where they're not expected.

Right.

Than to go to, like, where everyone can find a giant. Because that's half the fun of it, is, like, these things are rare.

Yeah.

So if you go where they're not rare, then it's kind of like, I don't know, it takes a little bit of the sheen off, if you ask me.

Yeah. Maybe a little bit. I mean, it. It just feels like the diamond in the rough kind of thing.

Yeah.

Which was pretty satisfying. Like, I think my favorite detail about that story and that deer is, like, this unit sucks.

Yeah.

Yeah. Whereas, like, Travis, who did kill a bull, by the way, on that hunt, like, a few days after I'd left and spent five days packing it out by himself. Stud. But I couldn't, like. And I felt extremely guilty, but I couldn't. I couldn't help. But he ended up shooting, like, a 290 bull. Awesome story, but you'd have to talk to him about that one. He had a draw tag in our home state and a place where, like, you know, you could shoot a big deer. And he did.

Draws aren't good.

Like, no. Like, a good unit. And he shot. He capitalized. He shot a really nice deer, which I just dropped off at the same taxidermist.

Oh, did you really?

Yeah. I got. I brought a skull cap home after we turkey hunted the other weekend. And because my, my deer is going to be done like this week, I'm so excited. It's going to grace our household. Travis's deer is gonna be done like two weeks after that. But yeah, I mean, his deer is like 190. Buna Crockett.

Oh, that's great.

And I think, like, not, you know, score wise as big as mine, but I think way cooler deer. Just like a clean, typical, wide, beautiful mildew. Like, like everything you want out of a big mildew buck.

It's freaking.

But that's a story for him to tell you. Yeah.

All right, well, that sounds like that'll be another podcast we'll have to get him on.

Right?

We've gone a little long today, so we'll have to shorten it up here at the end. But I appreciate you hopping on telling some stories, man. This is. It's funny. We talk about this stuff all the time, but I still just had a blast listening to these things.

Yeah, man, I'm telling you, we ought to just have to put the headset on when both of us are in the same house because it seems like we tell Hunt stories all day, so we'll have to do this again.

Okay, sounds good.

Well, thank you, Jaden.

Yeah, thanks, man. That's the pod. Thank you for listening.

The Hunt west podcast.

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