Hunting the Right Terrain: Dillon Ness Hunt Plan

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This is the Elk Hunt podcast. Home to everything elk hunting. I'm your host, Cody rich. From fellow DIYers to elk hunting legends, we have elk hunting stories, tips, tactics and more to get you pumped for elk season. Join us every week for great elk hunting content. Today's episode of the podcast is brought to you by Tricer. They make gear that's fast, light and simple. Been talking about the tripods for a very long time. I love the tripods, love the panheads.

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Thanks. Hi, Dylan. Welcome to the podcast, man.

How are we doing?

Good, man, good, thanks. Thanks for. Yeah, let me be a little bit tardy on the first one.

No, you're good, man. You're good. Like we were talking about, it's like it's almost September. This is like the chaos before the calm when it comes to like work and getting everything done.

Oh, it is, dude. And yeah, the chaos before the calm, that's actually pretty good. Yeah. Had to get a meeting in with. I'm getting a new shop built for my business and so I wanted to dial everybody in there, make sure I had everything just laid out. And yeah, then with work itself. But shoot, now we're getting there. Dude, we're getting there. Just about a week away. Right?

Are you. So you one of those guys that can check out for the entire season or like you kind of back and forth between work and hunting?

I would say I definitely don't check out the entire season. Besides work, I got two little boys and a wife. So it's like, you know, to swing back in. But dude, I get a lot of time. Yeah, I get a lot of time. I don't, don't take much time off. I've given up summer fly fishing. You know, it's all. When you, when you grow up and be a big kid, you know, you have to decide a few things and elk hunting wins on that front. So. No, but I get, I get plenty of time. I usually block out some big, you know, some week long type stuff and then come back, come back on usually Monday, Tuesday sort of deal, make sure everything's running smooth and then see you later. Gone again. So no, I would say, gosh, it always depends on the year, but I get plenty of time. Yeah, if, if I, if, if I ever, if I ever don't get one arrowed, it's not for a lack of time, that's for sure.

I was gonna say, do you feel like it changes your tactic or like the way you go about it? Because like when you have all month, and I'm guilty of this too, like when you have all month, you kind of get lazy or like you play, you slow, play a little too much. But also like, I mean, most guys are.

How do I kill an elk in five days?

Do you feel like it's a different strategy when you're like, how do you kill an elk in 25?

Yeah, no, no, totally. And you know, that's, that's a great point. When I always roll in to wherever I'm hunting? Yeah, I don't feel any pressure, you know, and so I always like to just kind of get in the groove a little bit, you know, it's not. I definitely think there's a big difference between having to kill one in five days versus 25 days. 25 days gets you in the flow of things, you know, and, and not, and not having to have that pressure of, oh my gosh, if I don't kill one by Friday, there goes my elk season. So it usually, you know, every year's kind of different. But I also think that not having that time restraint. Yeah, it lets, it lets you go about things a little bit different. I feel like, I mean, I'm usually one of those guys. I usually, if there's a bull that gets me going and I find him on, you know, day two, it's like I usually try and go get him killed. You know, I don't, I don't usually sit back and watch him like, oh, what's he doing? That sort of deal. Because most of the time, I mean, this year, unfortunately, I didn't draw, but most time like up where I hunt, you know, up in the, up in the prairies and stuff, it's like you have to, it's good to go kill them on the day you find them because you never know who's going to bump them or where they're going to roll to. But yeah, I would say I would always play on the 25 day side of things, you know, I do think it gives you a leg up, that's for sure.

Yeah, yeah, like, and I think a lot of people don't have patience, but like, the more you can have patience, it just does seems like, you know, letting stuff materialize is always when you have that ability. And to your point, yeah, like we're very much leaning towards get it killed when you can because you don't know if it's going to be there tomorrow. But at the same time, like, if you can, like, all right, let's, let's, you know, take, take the high probability stocks, take the high probability options. Like, take all of those is like you're going to be more successful.

Oh, without a doubt. And that's probably one of the things that I don't go just bull rushing into shit. You know, like, if they're not in a good spot or I love to go kill them when I find them. But if it's not a high probability, I'm not one to just like, oh, let's go see if it works out. You know, I usually, whether it's in the mountains or in the prairie, the break, whatever, I usually play for a high percentage. You know, it's. Yeah, I'm not like, it's like anything, goats, deer, bulls. It's just, I don't like to just go spin my wheels to spin my wheels, and, like, let's see how many stocks we can get in. It's like, anymore. I mean, back when I was. Back when I was a pup, you know, it's like, yeah, you know, I would go on tons of stocks, but the older I get, it's like, no, you can get it done within a handful if you just play your cards right. And so, yeah, I think it's a. There's a fine line between patience and just full steam ahead, you know, being aggressive, I always air. I mean, if I think there's a strong chance, if I even think if it's. If I look at them and I'm like, I could. I can. You know, I might need a couple chips to fall my way. I'll go send that one. But if it's blatant, like, oh, maybe. Nah, nah, I'll sit back, let it materialize. And that's where those days come into play, I think.

What makes you think it's high probability or low probability? And, like, how do you get. And I'm asking the question for the guy who's like, what the hell is he talking about? You know, like, maybe you can explain it with a scenario. Maybe there's like, here's why this is low probability, or, here's why this is high probability. But, like, to your point, I do think that we have to screw it up a whole bunch to figure out, oh, those are low probability. And this is like, oh, I think there's a good chance here. You know, Like, I. I think it's tough when you don't know what that looks like. I don't know if you have some examples for us.

Oh, dude, here's a perfect example. And this is kind of funny. A few handful years ago, it's that bull. A couple years ago, I walk into the spot, and I get sat down, and I'm glassing, and it's a spot that I knew. There's elkin. And I like the way that terrain lays out. And first bull to pop off is. He's not far. Mile and a half or so down drainage, and he's got 13 cows. He's an absolute super cranker, you know, like maybe kissing 70s. And I'm watching just kind of how that bull's acting, and he's on his feet early. And then I always start scanning, because mainly when I'm in open country, I never call. You know, I spot and stock on mainly all of them. And. But I start scanning backwards, right? And see if I can pick stuff in between. Well, there's some deer scattered over here to the left where this bull is down, gonna feed. I have to come left where he's going to work out into a feeding feature. It doesn't give me much ground to play with. You know, it's kind of more. It's more flat really. And so I'm looking at that bull and I'm like, man, I was like. I went to go get a little closer because I was like, I'll cut the distance a little bit, see how it plays out. But it wasn't playing out like it was going to be high probability for me just because the way he was working the deer in between us and him, the country I knew he was going to work into to feed, it was like, it was pretty low probability. Now if you would flip it and I'd catch him in the morning and he was coming back up into the hills, it would have given me a lot more to work with. I would have had to make a loop. But. So I hang back, but just then I looked down to my left. Four cows, so few, much fewer eyes. And. And there's a 350 bull. And I'm like, now both those bulls get me going, you know, like options.

I like options.

Yeah, I like options too. And you're not gonna have to twist my arm to go arrow. 350 bull. Yeah, but where this three is, he was on the up drainage side of those deer. He was well, he was well away from that 370 bull. And dude, he was in the perfect spot. And by that I just mean there was scrub brush, you know, cedars. There was good rolls to get into him. And I could make a play, you know, with light left to get on top of him, get around. And I had a big prevailing wind, so I wasn't really worried about thermals, you know. And that was the other thing. With that 370 bull. I would had to make a huge loop to get underneath him because at dark everything would have got sucked down. And where I would had to come from, I was in the wide open with this bull down to my left. It's like I still make a pretty good loop, but I can come underneath him, get on top, play the prevailings. And he's just in the type of country that lends itself to getting into bow range, you know, and that's one of my things is good opportunity versus bad opportunity. I usually hunt the country, you know. Now granted, elk have to be in it, but you're not gonna go kill them when they come Feeding up into a stubble field, you know what I mean? Like you gotta hunt them when they're coming down off of it, you know, it's like you gotta. I always look at it as. Yeah, I'm just always kind of hunting the country that I know I can be highly effective in. And yeah, that, but 350 bull that I arrowed, it played out perfect. You know, I looped around him, got. I was underneath him drainage wise, so down drainage side. So I was good there and I was a little bit above him. Prevailing's blown over the top of him. It was still like 5:30 and I knew he was going to feed down drainage, you know. I mean a lot of those bulls out where I hunt, they feed down drainage into the kind of the grassy bottoms and stuff like that. And oh dude, he walked 15 yards below me following his cows, screaming his head off and got thumped, you know. And that's. Yeah, that was one that was like a no doubter, you know, just the way that everything laid out, it's always, it's one of those deals like you said, you have to screw it up because it's not always obvious, right? You know, it's not always obvious like, oh, Dylan said that's high probability because it's good country. Well, there's a lot of other factors, you know, but it's one of those deals where when you do it enough, you kind of just start stacking odds, you know, I mean, you start stacking, okay, he's in good country. He, the wind's great. Yoke, check, check. You know, he's more than likely going to go down drainage. If he goes up drainage, I still have a chance to play on him. Check. It's like, you check enough boxes, you better go, you better go send it, you know. Yeah, yeah, that's.

I like that. You know, the hunt the country. And this is like if you're an archery hunter. I don't, I don't know if everyone thinks about this, but like when you find archery country, take your antelope hunts, right? Like you're on antelope, you have to choose country. I'm like, sure, you may see a lot of antelope in country that's wide open and flat as a pancake, but you ain't getting near one, right? And so you see less antelope in that rolly hilly country, but man, every one of them is a good opportunity because you can stock to them. The same could be said for elk. Like, you know, people, you know, hunt the prairie and a Lot of people like to like hunt ag, right? It's like you see them in agriculture. Just because steam on private doesn't mean you kill them, you know, like. And so like, you have to find these elk in the right terrain. And I think that's what it takes to be a good bow hunter. No matter what is like, you have to be able to find the terrain. Blacktail hunt in Alaska this year, you know, we had picked one spot, ended up kind of going a little bit different, but it was like you work in and there's deer in both, but it's like, oh, this one is built for bow hunting like this. And it was like, once we realized these bucks were kind of coming up into the rocks and bedding on the hot days, you're like, oh boy, this is like, this is it, you know, and like you find that terrain and then it's like that's when you hone in. And I think that's, you know, we talk a lot about balancing around, finding elk, finding elk. But you know, when we, when we talk about like honing into an area that can be a big key is like, oh, there's elk and these are killable elk. Let's hone in on these and, and be more patient with this. Back to the 25 day thing. It's like if I have five days, I have to hunt elk where they are at the moment they're there. If I have 25 days, I can be like, man, when these elk get in this pocket, it is money. And you know, maybe they're not here today, maybe it's in three days. But like when they're in this pocket, I'm double tapping, I'm sticking to this because they're killable.

Yeah, yeah, without a doubt, dude. And that's, that's one of, I would say. I mean, like I said this year I didn't draw, but it doesn't change for me in the mountains where I'm going to be. I mean, I've killed elk in both of these spots that I'll be this year. But it's not your prototypical dark timber type mountain. Mountain stuff, you know, I still hunt the country in the mountains and find elk where my skill set will prevail, you know.

So what's that look like? I mean, obviously you're like, okay, I want to spot and stock. I don't want to call. So you're trying to find mountain oak that are spot and stockable. I don't know if that's a word.

But we're Gonna use it.

Yeah. No, I dig that. No, I dig that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for me, I look for, you know, those big sage open hillsides where, you know, they'll come out of the timber. They're grassy sage hillsides with north facing timber where they can go get put away. I like. I like those drainages that have the north face timber on one side and then the south face, Tim. Or the south face is like that sagey type country. You know, I'm not a big dude I e scout, but I don't escalate. I have to see with my own two eyes, you know, it's like, I totally believe in e scouting, but it. When you see it with your own two eyes, it's like, yes, that will work. And I love. I love faces in the mountains where prevailing winds dominate, you know, I mean, you always got to play the thermals in the. In the early morning and late evening when the wind dies down. But I love when you can get like, big faces that. That the prevailing wind will crush a thermal, you know, And. And also I. I've learned over the last handful of times in the mountains, it's like sometimes when they go in that north face timber, it's not all bad. Last year I was playing on all these bulls and this. Yeah, this was in Idaho. And I was playing on all these bulls in the morning, and, dude, I was in. I was in one of those mornings that you wish would never end. I mean, I was trying to cut off 3, 2, 3, 40 bulls with all the cows going up the mountain and just doing everything I could and I couldn't cut him off. And then I looked down and here's a 320 bull that peeled off going back through the creek into the sage. So I'm like, I'll go after him, you know, like. And dude, it was one of those deals. So I make this big play down through the crick, and I get in the sage, and that sage is like chest high, like, oh, money, money, right? And this bull's popping off every two minutes. He's got. Well, he ended up having a bunch of cows. I think he had like 12, 13 cows. But anyways, I knew they were going to go head back. He was going to round them up and take them back to the north face timber. And long of the short, I sit on him forever. Every cow files by at 37 yards, and I'm just like, oh, boy, I was starting to count my freaking chicks before they hatch, you know? Well, he chases the last two cows by me at like Mach 5, dude, just see you, you know, and so no arrows. Didn't get to hit. Full draw, nothing. But he works over the same saddle that all those other bulls and all those other cows did into the north face. And I'm like, you know, it's like 9:30 now. They were late to bed. 9:30, 10. And normally I would usually wait for him to come back out, you know, but I hadn't. This was my first full day in this spot. I had been in there the night before, knew there were elk in there, and. But I just didn't know what they were, how they were working country. And so I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go hunt them. And so I work all the way back up that mountain, slip the saddle, Great prevailing wind. And dude, no sooner did I sit down, and it's like 11:45 and I just hear, just. And I'm like, okay, like, I guess I'm gonna be an elk caller today, you know? And, dude, I slipped down there and I gave off, I don't know, just a sequence of calf calls. Because the one thing I did notice that morning is that those bulls that were going wild were on like yearlings, you know, like, it was later. It was later in September. And I'm not. I don't know enough about Esther Cycle and that, but what I did notice that morning is that those, like, yearling calf, I mean, not calves, but those yearlings, those bulls were on them. And so, yeah, dude, I was like, calf call. That's probably going to be my ticket. Like, that's what those boys were on this morning. And dude, no sooner did he just come up to 20, 24 yards and get thumped, you know, And. And so I broke all my own, like, spot and stock and rules and playing that country. But also, I think you have to adapt a little bit, you know? And I mean, when you. It was one of those deals where I didn't feel like it was low probability of going in that timber because I was either going to give a few sequence of calf calls and I was going to kill one, or I was just going to sneak back out and wait for them to get back into a feeding feature that night, you know, And I was going to be on them. I wasn't waiting on the other side of the mountain when they got up. I was going to be there to tail them down. So.

And I think that's a huge. Like, I don't. I think you can do and not. Or. Because it's like, can you slip in there and not screw it up.

Right.

And on those days we're like clearly multiple bulls going crazy, multiple big bulls that's like to me a green flag of like there's going to be some chaos in that timber today. You know, late season, there are multiple herd level bulls air quotes there, herd level bulls that are like going crazy. Like this is a really good chance to like something's gonna happen and you know, can you get in there without method up? Sure. You know, you got a good strong wind.

Why not?

Like I, I, yeah, I'm a huge fan of that.

Yeah, I am too. And that's, you know, I used, I never used to have any sort of confidence like calling I, I guess because I was always, I mean, dude, I've lived on the prairie my whole life so it was like see him go kill them, you know, whatever and, but the last handful of years I took my father in law into a range a couple years ago and he's, he's an Oregon guy, eastern Oregon guy, lives in Prineville and he's killed a bunch, he's killed a bunch of bulls out, out that way. And you know, so he wanted to call and he didn't have like necessarily the spot and stock skill set that I do. And so it was his hunt and I'm like, dude, I'll do whatever you need to do. And dude, I ended up calling him in like two hammer bulls, you know, we didn't end up getting one arrow, one walk by his broadside at 31 yards and stood there screaming but didn't end up getting him arrowed. But that like just seeing that and I didn't really have the pressure of it being my tag, you know what I mean? And being able to, you know, take bits and pieces of what all these guys who are really good elk callers do say, you know, and putting it into play was kind of eye opening to be honest with you, with the first one that was so wild, dude, the one that came through at 31 yards and we didn't end up getting him killed that morning. It was that situation where I was, we were kind of tailoring. We couldn't cut him off, right, like, and he just. This bowl was. So we called in every satellite bowl and this was a great bowl, dude, like a great bowl. But he goes to bed, like obviously couldn't turn him. It's just like that normal. I mean you're just never going to turn them. They know where they want to go, they know they're going to go to bed. But I told him. I was like. I was like, ry. I was like, dude, we should just chill for a while. And middle of the day, you know, he's probably going to get antsy or he's going to go water or something and we should. And then we should go get after him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, dude, it was like 1:30 and I hadn't heard a peep from him. I mean, had him pinned and we were only probably 600 yards above him, but had him pinned. And he was on a north face slope, dark timber. We were on a south facer that was sage, spotty timber. It was just. I mean, it was perfect. And dude screamed at him one time and he had had enough. He had heard me all morning and he was over that guy. And dude, he just came trompsing up. I mean, he was dead. I mean, he was dead. But it was one of those deals. It was cool to look back on and be like, okay, every guy that you talk or that talks about middle of the day type stuff, once they're settled down, they'll leave their cows because they know where they're at. It was just cool to put that in the play. And so it's kind of opened my eyes. The last handful of years I've done a little bit more calling, you know, which is sporadically, you know, I mean, when the situation is right. When I was in the breaks last year, a calf call killed my bull. I mean, I. Middle of the day again, I'm walking down a fence line, just kind of heat checking because I got skunked that morning, which was. Yeah, it usually doesn't happen in that stuff. Usually you can see a bull five miles away have a play. But I was kind of like, hm, I'm gonna have to go check some stuff. And so I went into some darker timber and a calf got stuck on, you know, the wrong side of the fence, separated from the herd. Dude, that calf probably called. I'm not two, 300 times. And I'm just sitting there like at 80 yards, like, this is nuts. Like something's gonna happen.

Yeah.

All of a sudden you hear. You hear a cow, you know, and this cow's coming. And I'm like, holy smokes. So I just kind of waited. This calf kind of worked her way up, weaseled through the fence. And I look up, dude, and there is a super giant rolling in straight seven. I mean, huge dude following this cow in to check this calf. And so I start making a play and I'm like, this is insane. And I get down to this evergreen cedar. I don't even. They're like those juniper berry bushes, you know, the big poofy ones.

Yeah.

And dude, I'm like making my last move. I last. I clicked him was 85 and I'm. I'm like going to get like 10 more because they're still working my way. And, dude, I work around this bush and this bush blew up and there was a spike bedded on the other side of the bush that I could see. So this bull boogers did it. I'm like, oh, no. Well, then the whole little basin erupted and the bull that I ended up killing came out of nowhere. I'm like, holy. So they ended up working off. But, dude, it was the same thing that night. I'm like, okay. I didn't have them pinned where they were bedded, but I knew they were in one of two drainages and there was a sage flat top in between them. And so, dude, I worked down. I had a northeast wind and so I worked up the west side of the ridge and I would softly calf call into the timber that I couldn't really see in. And then I would kind of creep to the top and try and get a whiff of them if they were in the other drainage. And dude, so I was doing this for like 2 miles, just real slow. And I'm like running out of real estate. I'm like, I either A, past them or B, it's about to go down. And I get up to the top, dude, and I hear the. The seven point bugle. Like, I don't know how he didn't win me. It was like, you're down to my left. But he bugles and I'm like, oh. And so I go to make a loop back and I hear a bull thrash in a tree like 90 yards to my right. So I just sat down and yeah, this bull followed his six cows out of the timber out into the sage. And dude, I was just like. I would say it was one of those instances where you created a little bit of luck, you know what I mean, by just playing it a certain way. But if he walked out broadside and just caught one and it was so sick. But it all stemmed back to that damn calf call that morning that just gave them all away. And so it's like, yeah, it was last year is my year of the calf call. And I. It probably won't ever go like that for me again. But it was pretty wicked. Yeah, it was.

But it's funny, like, you think about, like, how obnoxious you could be with a calf too. I killed a bull. And it was, you know, I'll just tell the story because it was very applicable to yours. I was on a good shooter bowl. Long story short, it got blown up. And I text my buddy Sean. I was like, next bull of bugles dies. Because that was rough. You know, end of the year and bull pipes off. I go over there and I, I'm glassing and it was this calf. I see him like chase a cow calf down in there, right? And this calf, he separated the two. And then it comes back over this hill and this calf, it just. Calf calling Capcom, Cap calling Capcom. Because trying to find mom, I was like, I gotta get down there. So I like hot tail right between them, you know, and here comes this. And this calf was like working back up the hill, just going bananas with, you know, be like a calf call.

Yeah, yeah.

When you were saying like, I was like, I wonder if you could just go down to a fence. You know, because like, that's a very realistic scenario where it's like a calf is just going bananas at a fence line. Can't get over it. Oh, good way to like, you know, I don't know, it seems crazy, just calf call 100 times or 200 times in a row, but might work, dude, it might work.

Honest to goodness, it might work because, I mean, I've seen more calves get stuck on the other side of a fence. I killed a 365 bull a handful of years ago, I don't know, five years ago. And the only reason I figured out which turkey foot draw he went into was because the calf got stuck about half a mile away on the other side of the fence. And I was late getting up there. I had to go back in my shoes, but I was late getting up there. And here's this calf and she, she literally was like, oh, middle, yeah, like they're in the middle. No guesses about it. Like they went into the middle draw. And it's like, dude, yeah. The calf on the fence line may be a play, a tactic that's never been exposed, but it would, I don't see how it would ever mess anything up. Because like you just said in your situation when you had that happen, dude, mine was the exact same. I mean, it was literally obnoxious. It was non stop for probably, I don't know, seven, eight minutes of just. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, she couldn't even take a breath, you know, panic.

It's like a panic call or something.

Yeah, yeah. And it. And it kind of sucks. Sucks those cows back in and when. I mean, when those big bulls are with them and.

But yeah, I think the downside. The downside is like, I mean, anytime you're calling in big bull, when you're targeting big bulls. Now, if you're just looking for a six points different, but it's like you go to a fence line, you calf call, promise you the smallest bulls coming first, and then the next, you know, the next. And it's like it's going to go sideways when you call in five Raghorns. And like, you know, if you aim for the 360, he's the last one that's going to come.

So. Without a doubt. Yeah, without a doubt.

And that.

And that's honestly why I don't call a whole lot. I mean, to each their own, but it's like there's a certain bowl that just gets you going anymore, you know, and those ones, I feel like I don't like to let those one. Those ones know I'm there. Yeah. At all. Like, I mean, at all. I don't know. Actually. I know for a fact I've never killed a big bull calling them. I mean, I just had. I mean, it probably because, I mean, maybe some of them would have been susceptible to it. But that's just. When you find one of those big ones, it's like, no, he's not going to know I'm there until the reaper runs through him. You know, I mean, that's just.

Do you ever, like. I mean, there's so. I'm sure you've had this scenario where it's like, you get. You put the stock in, you've been dead quiet, you get so close, and, you know, you want to make that call to, like, the last 10. We call it like the 9010 rule, which is like, get to 90, let him come 10. But to your point, I think a lot of big bull killers will just let that situation devolve and we'll try again. You know, it's like where I think a lot of guys, they get. They get that 90% and they want to force the 10%. Oh, I'm so close. Like, he's 120 if I just call him over. But like, on big bulls, it just doesn't seem to work. And then it's like the gig is up forever, too, because, like, that bull could just disappear.

Oh, disappear. Change an area code, different county. Yeah. If I'm. Yeah. And I. The 90 10. I always call it the 10 10, you know, it's like the last 10 seconds and the last 10 yards, you know, whether that be from 80, whatever. It's like those are what I burn into my mind. It's like to finish a stock. It's the last 10 yards in the last 10 seconds, and if one of those two don't develop, it's like I just let it slide, you know, I mean, I've been. Yeah. And I mean, it pans out and it doesn't. I mean, I'm probably, you know, 50.

50 on that.

You know what I mean? But that's. I would rather play that game than blow them out forever and then have to go find another big one. Because finding a big one is hard enough to do in itself, you know.

Right.

Yeah, I'm. I. And that comes back to that high percentage stock, you know. I mean, there. There's certain plays where you. You may only get to a buck 20, and then it all has to play out from there. Like, it has to develop on its own. They. They've got to. They've got to kill themselves, you know, I mean, they've got to work into you. And that's one of those things, like you were saying earlier, you got to be okay, like, get in there, not blow it up. And if it happens, it happens. But if you back out, no harm, no foul, you know, you get to.

Play again today or, you know, this evening or tomorrow.

Yeah, this evening or tomorrow. And I would much rather have that bull not know I'm there and come back in the morning, because that's one of the other things. If I leave one like that, I'll usually come back at three in the morning and like, hike in and just try and listen and find him that way. Because they're not always. They're rarely. Rarely in the same spot, you know, it's like they might be a couple drainages over, but I'll always go find them. And that's on that 50% that does work. I'm usually able to find them in. In the wee, wee hours of the morning like that. And I'll just hang out. I mean, I usually got a thermos of coffee, and I'll just hang out, listen to them, you know, like, until the sun comes up and then you're back in the game. And he's had no idea that you've ever been there. And that's. Yeah. And usually the ones that. Well, the ones that haven't worked are usually. I just can't pick them back up again, you know, it's like. Yeah, I would much rather. Oh, on a big bowl, on any bull that I wanted to kill those last little bit, man. I just. Nah, I'll. I'll keep those reads in my pocket, you know, So I wanna.

I wanna die. I want to dive into. There's two things I picked up there. So I'm going to try to remember to circle back to this conversation about starting early. I do think a lot of mornings get wasted, but when you. One of the thoughts on your 1010 rule. We'll call it my 9010 rule. My 9010 is like, sometimes you have to go 90, let them come 10. But in purely. And that's mostly calling, you could be applicable to both in a spot and stock situation. Are the majority of your stocks for 100% or they for 90%? Meaning are you going to where he's going to give you the last 10%? I think, you know, a mistake people make, and maybe I'm wrong on this, but a mistake is like you're trying to stock to where he is and then the last 10 10, it's very. But if you're like, oh, here's where he's going to go. I'm going to stock to there and he's going to move in front of me. That was what I would call like a 90 10. Like, we're stocking for the 90 10. Where do you think about that? Are you like, let's just. Let's go for the 100 or are we going for the. Where can I go that he'll move.

In front of me 100%? I can think of two. Right off the bat, one of them was full 100. You know that one that I was talking about, the 350 ball below me? Yeah, that was. That was a full 100. I mean, I knew I needed to get to the X. And he was dead. Like, he was. He was underneath me. He was dead right. That big bull that I told you, the big365. Well, the one that went up the middle foot of the. Of the drainage, that one was a you're like, 9010 rule. Right where I got to the edge of his herd, all of his cows, I got to the very edge of them. He was on the far side, and I needed him to come that last 10. And what I usually mean by the 1010 is when I'm going, whether it be your 90 10, because there's still that 10 yards where you've got to get to, where if he makes a mistake, he's going to commit. He's going to suck in the rest of the yardage that you need, you know? And usually that last 10 yards that you have to move, whether you're going 100 or whether you're going 90, those last 10 yards, I feel like, is where a guy's peak, you know, like, pop a ridge and peak and get clipped. Like, is he still there? You know, like.

Or.

Or they get. They get in a rush, you know, and it's like, I've been guilty of all this. That's why this is like. That's why I burn this into my mind. It's like those last 10 yards, whether you're going 90 or you're going 100, those last 10 yards, to me, are the most crucial of them all, because that's where you can get a little antsy, you know, like, shit's about to go down, you know, in those last 10 seconds, whether he's coming that cutting the last 10 that you need, or you're already at 100. The last 10 seconds, for me are clicking. Knock on, scroll, knock on. And like, a second. I mean, you know this. Any bow hunter, a second at full draw in your execution, one second is the difference between pinwheeling them or chasing them over the next ridge. You know what I mean? Like, and so for me, yeah, it's. It's very situational if I'm going 100 or if I'm going 90. But, I mean, I usually. I will never stock if I go 100. Put it this way. If I go 100, I know when I get to the X, right. I'm killing him off the X, you know?

Yeah, yeah. It's like, when you see that scenario, you're like, oh, he's bedded here. If I can get to there, he's done. And then sometimes it's like, I. There is no hundred. There's no, like, version of where I can stock and shoot him. So I'm gonna have to get 90, and then we'll have to figure it out. Like, sometimes that happens.

Oh, 100. And sometimes that what you think is 90 is really only 70. You know what I mean?

Like, and that's. And.

But that also. That's one of the things that I think is so crucial on a stock, on any animal. And elk are so much. I love stock, and elk is just the best because. Well, I won't say it. I was going to say you can get away with some stuff, but forget that. But you can always play the game. You know what I mean? Like, you can get to. You can cut the distance to say, 70, 30. And then let them move a little bit.

Yeah.

Or go over a rise or go down a draw, and it's like. And then get another 10 of that and keep playing it. That's the one thing with Elk. That's one of my favorite plays of all time, is when you can get to, say, within a buck 20. You know, say you get within a buck 20, kind of let it develop. You kind of get there, let everything simmer. I don't get too many nerves until I loose an arrow and hear it. Thwop. Then I kind of lose my. But like. But you know what I mean? Like, you to the spot, and then you can gather yourself.

Yeah.

Check it all out. See how the country actually lays out. You may have a little more roll here or there. And there's. There's times when, I mean, I'm sure you've had this. Any guy that's spot and stock, big bulls, it's like you get to a spot and then you're like, holy. I didn't recognize that from the glass spot. But I can back out, loop this low side, and he's going to be 60 some yards, you know what I mean? And so I love your 9010 rule. I mean, preferably, there's very few times that I ever get the chance to go the 400, you know, in. In any stock, really. I mean, usually it's get cut the distance to within, I mean, real close striking distance, and then let it develop, finish it. And that's where, like that last 10 you might need when you go that 90, he may come a little bit, go out of sight, you clip that extra 10 yards come up. It's like that bull right there, dude, that was a perfect 9010 bowl. I got in there, and I was standing there at 78 yards. And this was back in the day. And 78 yards to me back then was not what it is now. But it's like I was standing there and I was like, I just can't make this shot. You know, like, I got to let it play. And that bull chased a cow down a drainage down to my left rise, over the top, backed out, ran down, came up the drainage. He mounts a cow at 62 yards, and it would flop. You know, it's like that was the perfect 90 10. That was the perfect 9010 volt. Yeah.

Yeah. And just he's getting in the range and let it develop. And oftentimes it looks, you know, and it's different with cows too. Like, you know, we always say, like, you know, it's got a herd of cows and he's. He's fairly active. Like, just get within 60 of a cow and wait, right? Like, that's a good 90, 10 roll. Like, you covered 90. Now just wait for the opportunity to show itself.

Yeah, yeah. Because a lot of those times, dude, they'll come hook that last cow, they'll come hook that last cow, scream their head off, and you got them, you know, And. And there's nothing worse. One of my golden rules is like, dude, I hate blowing out, like, period. I mean, it happens. But I hate forcing a play. If I usually. If I have to. And this goes for goats, deer, bulls. If I have to belly crawl, I usually nix that. You know what I mean? Unless it's like belly crawl to five yards to get to where I can get back up. But if I have to, if I have to crawl, game over. Like, nope, that's not what I'm doing, you know, because that never works. You know what I mean? Like, I always, I always hear people saying, and I'm sure there's somebody that's going to say, ah, I belly crawl in chill. It's like, yeah, but go do that a hundred times and tell me how many times that works out. You know what I mean? Like, right. It's like, usually the plays that are rock solid, I always say, you can run, you can walk, or you can do that duck walk, you know what I'm talking about? Your ass is low and you're kind of doing that shuffle. And it's like, dude, you can do those three things. Those are like the three moves that get killed. Belly crawling. It's like, man, I'm.

Yeah.

Not a big fan. And not that it, not that I don't mind. It's just like, it never works, dude. Like, it rarely works. I mean, have you ever belly crawled? Belly crawled and then. And shot. Kneeled up and shot one, you know, like. Yeah, yeah.

More often than not.

Oh. As soon as you get to your knees, game's over, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the thing is like, you know, that's a time. Even stalking to the ax so many times is like, it's difficult because you still have to range the animal, draw on the animal, and, you know, make the shot. So unless they're faced away, you know, it's really, really difficult to do.

Yeah. And the biggest thing I feel like with stalking, you just said it is getting a range and getting to full draw. And if there was one thing I always try, and I never try and see the full animal when I'm doing those things, you know, I mean, try and keep grass at their back or at their midline or a ridge or a rise, you know what I mean? So it's like where you're underneath it, because there's not. I mean, if you can see them fully, more than. More than likely they can see you, you know, and so. And that's the one thing I've arrowed so many things that I've only seen midline, you know, grass or sage. And you're holding in the sage, you know, or you're holding on the top of the rise. But it gives you that time to range, come to full draw and make a shot. Because in my experience, any bad shot I've ever made has been rushed. You know, it's like, oh, yeah. I mean, if you can sit on a shot, usually they die, you know. If you can sit on your shot, usually they die. And it's. And the only time when you really can't sit on your shot is when it's something rushed or, you know, I mean, draw back, they see you, they booger, they step out 8 yards and then you're floating all over the place, you know, it's like. And so that's one of the things I always try and do is I always try and keep something in between. And it sounds elementary, but it's like, I see it when I hunt with guys. It's just like, you can't see that if you're looking at them full on and you're not anywhere concealed in the shadows or timber or anything like that. It's like, I think they're just gonna get boogered, you know, And I think.

There'S always this, like, you go draw and they're looking at you like, man, they're burning a hole. The shot clock is ticking so fast in your head, you're like, gotta get it off. You're like, slow down. Gotta get it off. Gotta get it.

Yeah, yeah. There's no. There's no such thing as making a good shot because you're right, dude.

Yeah.

The shot clock is literally at solar three. Oh, yeah. And you're just like. Yeah.

So when you arrange, I mean, like, you know, a lot of times you'll be able to see antlers. I love when you just see antlers because I can tell if he's looking at me or not looking at me or what he's doing. You know, I've gone back and forth on this a lot of times in life, but it's like, sometimes I'll be like, I have to range the elk. Like, I want to be able to range tan, you know? And, like, make sure when you're ranging. Okay, you do you range tan? Are you ranging trees and pulling yardage back or, like, where are you at with that?

If you can range tan, fantastic. But, dude, there's a lot of times that I'm clipping. I'm clipping his top. You know, clipping is if he's. Turn it, you know, clipping him. Yeah. Clipping his antlers or clipping a tree. That's. I know. Right on him.

Yeah.

Ideally, yes. Ranging. The big yellow school bus is the best way to go. Right.

But.

But don't get caught doing it.

I don't get. Yeah, don't get caught doing it. And, dude, I usually feel pretty confident because when you're. When you're ranging, and that's the other thing, I'm not afraid in the moment to click through my settings and pick last, you know? Like, I usually run my rangefinder on bet on best priority. You know what I mean? But, like, if I'm in one of those situations where I'm creeping up, I don't even hesitate to just click through that, cycle through that, pick last, run it out, and then shoot it through the grass. Because, you know, and especially when you're ranging antlers, you know, you'll be ranging that thing. It'll say 140, 150. Oh, 62. 62. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, 62.

Yeah.

The. Yeah, that doesn't bother me in the least bit. Yeah, I actually feel pretty good about that most. I mean, let's just say it's never burned me yet, you know, like, because usually when you're ranging antlers, dude, you're. If you're missing them, you're getting like, holy shit, I don't have. I don't have room on my tape for that, you know?

Right. And I think a lot of times, like, I mean, you can get away with a lot, even with elk. Ruddy elk, for sure. Like, but you only. You only get so much. So if you can range without getting caught, I don't mind getting caught at draw or standing up. Like, I know I got at least 10 seconds then. So it's like, you know, fine, look at me. But like, you're catching an arrow in, like, three seconds, and it's like, so, like, if I cannot get caught. But the problem is you get caught ranging, and then you stand up and then you draw that's when they're gonna booger because it's like he saw you do a movement and you know, you might be able to get away with like being a full draw and easing up. Really done that. Gotten away with a lot there, but like. And that's. I think it's good to know what you can get away with and what you can't. Yeah. So I don't know.

No, I'm with you the hard way, dude. I'm with you. That bull last year, not the one I called in, the other one he was at, he was. He went through a window that I wanted him to stop in and he didn't stop and he was working like quartered away. And I'm. I'm kneeling in the sage and he worked out to a ways and I had to stop him. It was like, stop him now or you're not. You're not. I mean, he's just too far. Yeah. And I stopped. But I came to full draw. I clicked him and he's walking. I scrolled three yards past what I had clicked him at. Yeah. Stopped him because I figured by the time I got to full draw, he's at least another three. And dude. Yeah. I mean, he looked right at me. But at that point, it's like, it's too late. I've never had many elk. Well, I don't know. Not many elk duck. They usually wear that. You know, it's like they usually wear it and. Yeah, like you said, I don't mind. It's when you get caught. Ranging is when you're in trouble. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because then it's like whether you're fixing. I scroll everything, but it's like you get caught ranging. By the time it takes a scroll clip on, it's like. Yeah, that's a little dicey. Yeah.

I mean, the only exception to that rule is like, if you got the sun at your back, you can get away with a lot too, because they can't see you very good and you're uphill. Like, I've had that scenario where it's like, sun's behind me. You can almost get away with anything because they can't really make out what it is or anything. Yeah. But you know. Yeah. To your point, I. Yeah, man. That's fun.

When it comes to.

Okay, I want to circle back on. There was a thing I said I was going to. You, like, get out there at 3:30. I guilty of this as anyone, but I think a lot of people can waste a morning hunt with by getting there and Assuming the bull is going to be right where he was.

Right.

It's like classic scenario. Find a big bull, didn't quite work out. Like I'm going to be there in the morning, you're there in the morning, he ain't there. You know, it's like. Or you know, they leave early and I've been like, I have wasted. And it's so difficult because you waste that whole morning and that's if you got a seven day hunt, that's a big cost, right? So what's your morning like? Say hypothetically you're on a bull at night, what's your average? What's your morning look like? You're. You're starting at 3.

Yeah, 3, 3:30, dude. Yeah, it depends on how far I gotta hike into a spot.

Right.

But whether I'm on a big one. So this is damn near every morning whether I'm on a big one or not on one I want to kill, dude. I usually walk into spots. Yeah. I mean dude, four at the latest. Like four at the latest. Because what most time in September it's. You're creeping 7ish, you know, 7:15 net. About that. About that. Yeah. And it's like, yeah dude, I'm out there, that's the end of September. But anyways, yeah, I'm out there early. I'm out there early, early. And dude, I might do, I mean this is no exaggeration. I might do five, six miles in the dark, right? Like there's hunts like when I draw and even in the mountains, dude, I will just cruise in the dark until. And I use. And even in spots where they say bulls don't respond to bugles. This, that and the other thing I do, I carry bugle tube. Because in the dark, dude, I don't care. Elk are elk in the dark and they'll holler back at you, you know what I mean? And so yeah, my morning is. I don't eat. I rarely eat. It's like hungry wolf runs fast. You know, it's like I load up on coffee, caffeine and nicotine, dude. And yeah, I, I send it, I just send it early because like you said, Whether it's a seven day hunt or you're out there for 25 days, it's like if you don't have elk to hunt or you can't relocate a big bull, it's like what's the point? Like what am I doing out here?

Yeah.

And I mean did. Yeah. Sometimes I sleep in the middle of the day. Like if I ever have to if I ever feel ran down. I sleep in the middle of the day in the shade somewhere close. But yeah, my normal morning mountains or prairie is like, I'm out there early, early.

And from like elk behavior in those morning because, I mean, I've been on bulls, I've been out there early and like. Like, you're listening, you're like, I think they're going to bed. And it's like an hour before dark. And you're like, you know, like, oh, this is what happened that one time they were gone, you know, like. Or they'll get real riled up, you know, two hours before daylight and then all of a sudden it like gets quiet. Like, what weird things have you seen about elk behavior that maybe people wouldn't recognize?

Dude, you just nailed it. At that time of the morning, especially when it's the grayest of light. I mean, they're rolling, dude, like, and I mean, I've trailed bulls. I mean, that really big one that I. Well, I mean, really big. To me, the 365 bull, dude, he was rolling. It was chaos that morning. And I just picked the gnarliest sounding bull I could find. And. But he was rolling. I mean, the entire time in the dark, I literally was down drainage of him had the thermals rolling down. Actually prevailing was coming over the top too. But I was in the drainage with him at. By the time I was on him probably 4:30. So, dude, I was on him for two hours in the pitch black, like probably 3,300ish yards behind him. And they were just moving. Like they were literally moving. And as soon as light crept, they were like he would bugle, but not like he was doing in the dark, you know. And the one spot when I almost got him killed in the morning because I ended up killing that bull that evening, they hit water. And I never really see many elk where I'm hunting hit, like physically hit water and. But yeah, you know what I mean? Like, he. They hit water and then they boogied and went straight to bed. I mean, literally went straight to bed. But a lot of those mornings, dude, it's wild. You'll catch bulls. I mean, like, like you've seen, I'm sure it's like you'll hear a bugle a mile and a half, two miles away, and the next thing you know, he's trompson through, you know what I mean? And then it's like, am I tailing this one or am I going to tail that one? But I think in that period of the morning, I'VE found them moving a lot. I mean, like, literally. And not just moving here and there. I mean, some of them do. Some of them are in the spot they want to be. But more than likely, dude, I usually have to follow them a couple miles from where I find them to either get them killed or put them to bed. Yeah, and, and play that game, you know.

But what's the secret to staying on big bulls in the morning, you know, in that open prairie country? Gosh, they go so far, like, good luck. Like, and like so many times they'll just out walk you. And like, you know, if they start in the dark, like, it's really hard to keep up when it's dark out.

Oh, it's. Yeah, it's super hard. And dude, I've lost I' plenty of, you know, like, they go quiet for 10 minutes.

Oh, yeah.

And you pick the wrong drainage. Like, you get to a spot where it's like, you know, and I usually, if I know I'm far enough behind them, like, dude, I'll flip on the red light and like, be looking for tracks steaming hot, you know what I mean? Like, to tell me which way they roll. But. Oh, yeah, I mean, it's. It's hard. I mean, there's no. You kind of gotta create a little luck on that sort of deal. I feel like, to stick with them because, yeah, they'll move. Oh, there's no saying how far they move. I mean, sometimes, like you said, they'll move five miles, you know, I mean, no problem. I've seen bulls in some of that country that moved more than that, you know, I mean, which is insane. I've watched them like they were just here. And you look across private, across private into the next pub and they're like, over there. It's like, holy, good luck. Yeah, but, yeah, I.

So do you.

I mean, what's the odds of getting on bulls in the morning time? Like, is it. Is there a secret to this? Or like, is it just pure luck and you kind of got to do it every time because sometimes though, maybe like they. You get lucky, the coin falls your way and like they. Another bull keeps them talking or they kind of like get held up. It does feel like low probability, following big herds.

It does, it does. But the one thing it gives you is it get. I feel like it gives you. If you do lose them or can't keep up with them, I always feel like you have a direction then. You know what I mean? I was trying to think. I would say. I would say that's almost my. More of my main goal in the mornings like that. It's like, if you kill them, great. I did. I'm an evening kill. Like, I kill most of them. I kill most of them like last light, you know? But in those morning time, not period of the morning where I'm trying to keep up with them, I'm just more. So if I can kill him, fantastic. If not, at least I know where he's headed. And it can put me in the spot where I need to be.

Right.

You know, I mean, even if it is five miles, I mean, might have to hike back to the truck, drive around, get a different angle, come in on him there. I don't know if it's just the way that I go about stuff or what, but I kill all my. Most. All my. In the. In the last 30 minutes of daylight. And, I mean, I've killed a couple early. But more than likely, you're right. I mean, they'll walk out of your life. And good luck keeping up. I mean, you got to be steady trotting to keep up with them when they know where they want to go.

Right.

I feel like some of those mornings, though, and it's when. When they slip up and you kill them, they get milled or. And this is usually when they're hot. Hot. I think they get a little too fired up for their own good.

Yeah.

And they'll stick. Like, they'll turn that lead cow or do something silly that keeps them in the box, you know? And then lights come on, and it's like they're vampires anyways, you know, it's like they're gonna go put away in the shade. And when that happens, that's like. Or like you said, another bull comes in and gets wild. Those are the times where it's like, there's your gift. There's your luck. He's right here.

Yeah. But.

Yeah, I find a lot of times in the morning, dude, I'm like, I'm either freaking eight miles away from my truck when it's all said and done, or they're. Or they stick right in that spot. But rarely, more times than not, they're a long ways away. And so I wouldn't say there's a. Yeah, especially big bulls, dude, because they're never turning around. Like, they got cow. They're good luck. They're never turning around. And. And elk. I don't know if I've ever seen an elk walk to bed with the wind blowing up their ass. You know what I mean? Like, cutting them off you better. You got to cross wind them or get them in the perfect stuff. It's like, I usually just tail them, find where they go to bed, and then I love the evening play. And I'll say it because you did, because you can get away with murder in the. In low light or with the sun at your back. I mean, you can get away with a lot in the evening with elk. I mean, even I've got picked off by a random cow and held still for three, four minutes. And they'll just forget about you, you know, if you just literally. Oh, if you literally hold still. As long as they don't smell you and you're not like humanoid standing there, it's like. I feel like if you hold still, it's like they'll forget about you, you know? Yeah. And I. I mean, I hate saying that, but it's like in the evening, you can get away with it as long as you're not just strolling out there totally standing up and. Or wind blowing. It's like they don't. They don't smell you. You can get away with a lot. I feel like.

Yeah, I mean, like when you. When you put. I mean, say. I say put them to bed. Like, obviously sometimes we have no idea there, you know, could be one drainage, could be five drainage. No idea. How much do you rely on where they went in versus where they come out? I mean, I feel like big bulls are like herding cats. You might as well. Like, you're almost better off to cross off the same spot. But then when you do, it's going to be there. You know, it's like, how. How do you predict where come back to?

Usually I play the wind. I usually play it with the wind because a lot of those elk up where I hunt my stuff that I love hunting, usually they'll come out of bed with their nose in the wind. I mean, that's kind of what I've seen a lot of times. Like, if I had to take one wild sad. Because there's. It's tough to. Unless you've seen it in that spot before. I feel like it's tough to gauge, like in ambush, you know what I mean? Like, hey, they're gonna come back down drainage, or oh, no, they're gonna go up drainage. So I always. How I do it is I usually can see how I like to. If at all possible, I like to see the entrance where they went in and then possible exits up top, you know, because that's the other thing I've noticed about some, like, Where I hunt up there is those elk feed up and on top. They'll either feed if they're in the nasty, like away from green, they'll feed up and out. If they're down towards, let's just say what it is, the freaking river. If they're down there, they feed that, you know what I mean? Like they'll go down. Like they'll go down, but if they're out in the nasty, they go up and so. And even in the mountains, I mean, dude, a lot of elk feed out onto a face, you know what I mean? And usually I feel like I always see them, the wind is in their face. I mean that's how I judge it. But I like to see if, to answer your question, I like to just see the entrance and if all possible, I see all exits and then I won't necessarily. I rarely go stock a bedded bowl unless it's like, I can see him. Yeah, yeah, I can stalk to the X without a doubt. Stock to the X. Otherwise I'll hang back on the entrance or exit to be able to see both of them and then wait for them to, to get on their feet. I love stalking any animal in a feeding feature or in transition, like on their feet. I, yeah, if they're on their feet, that's when I feel the best. Like when they're feeding, pushing cows up, doing their thing. Yeah, that's, that's my all time favorite. But yet if, if I had to take one wild stab, like say it's like, hey, this is do or die. I'm playing the exit that has the wind in it where they're going to walk in with it. Walk into it. Yeah, walk into the wind. Yeah.

It's really intuitive too to say like, oh, these feed out. And like even like when you're on the mountains this year, you know, you the sage, where it's like, okay, they're going to feed, get kind of out, not down, they're going to feed. You know, usually when they, when they go to bed, like they maybe go down to water and they'll feed back up into a timber pocket. But when they come out of it, they're either going to go up or just over and kind of start to pop out. And he's like, okay, now I know where they're going to go. But to your point, like I think a lot of people make the mistake of like, oh, I'm going to ambush them right where they came, where they went into the timber. It's like probably the least likely spot that they're going to come back out, though.

Yeah. Yeah, that's. I would agree with you. That's probably the least likely spot for them to come back out is where they went in. You know, I. A lot of elk, I always think, are on a circuit, especially prairie country elk. I mean, even mountain elk, I think they run. There's a circuit, you know, it's like they feed out. They feed out for the night. They rut in this location, work down, get water, feed up to bed, bed, run the same circuit. You know, whether that circuit is a mile or five miles or four freaking ten miles, it's like. And that's one thing my brother. My brother's great. Really good elk hunter. And same thing. Like, that's. He mentioned that a handful of years ago, he goes, dude, he goes. He had already killed the bull. And he's like, dude, I'll be over here. Because these elk are running this circuit, and if you don't find him over here, I'm gonna find them over here. We were looking for one bull. Like, we were on this one giant bull. And, yeah, I didn't see him that morning. And Jared found him, you know, and it was like, hey, boogie over here. He's right down here.

Yeah.

And so I think you're spot on. Like, where they go in to go to bed, I don't think is where they're coming out.

Yeah, right.

And usually where they go into bed, they're going into bed for a reason there. You know, it's like, you go set up there, wind's probably a little swirly blown up into it. It's like the game's gonna be over before you even have a chance. I'm. I'm not an ambush guy. Let's just say that. Like, I'm not an ambush guy. And I hate. I will sit down to take a breather or the glass, but sitting there waiting for them, like, oh, I'm gonna get a shot from here when they can.

No, it's never panned out.

No, dude, Never, Never. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, yeah, I'm stoked. That was a good podcast, man. Thanks for jumping on. We gotta do this again. Yeah, Good, Good fun and. Yeah, good luck this year. Thanks. Yeah, you do. On the general.

Hunt in general. Yeah, it. Yeah, it's gonna be a different deal. I mean, they grow them big in the mountains. It just is a lot more effort to go find them. I suppose. So. Yeah.

True. This is true. Well, good luck this year, man. It's. It's go time, so.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm stoked. Oh yeah, I can couldn't tell you how excited I am. Just ready to get out there.

Yeah, yeah. No, appreciate you having me on. And good luck to you too. And yeah, can't wait to see a picture come through. So.

Yeah, sounds good, buddy.

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