"I Love it When a Plan Comes Together" | Wyoming Elk Hunt Story

Foreign.

To the Hunt west podcast.

Here's your host, Jaden bales.

All right, Mr. Cody Rich. Are you ready to record this thing?

Was it on?

Yeah, it's on.

Feels weird when it's like, if we.

Don'T have headphones on. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what you get when you're sitting in a tent at 10, 000ft, and you just kind of have to make do with it. This is our. This is my ultralight backpacking recording setup.

I like it.

It actually works pretty good. I got it. Like, my other microphone broke, and I, like, was in the middle of recording a series of podcasts, and I just, like, went to the Best Buy, and this is what they had. It worked out good. Is that.

I wonder if it'll pick up the tent. We got a little bit of tent flap. Adds to the ambiance.

That's right. Maybe AI will help clear it up, but whatever.

Yeah.

So we're sitting in a tent at 10,000ft. 7.7 mil from the truck. How long did it take for us to get in here yesterday?

Oh, I don't know.

We left it, like, one.

Yeah.

So five hours.

Five hours.

Took a little while.

Yeah. All complicated by some of our companions.

Yeah, our companions.

Our.

Our yamas. Our llamas were pretty slow. I mean, we did gain a couple thousand vert, so, like, we. I don't know.

I. I don't.

Honestly don't know if it was slow or not for them. I don't have enough experience with them.

Yeah, they're okay. So this is what I was thinking. You before we were driving down here, and you were like, okay, we just gotta check off all of the uncontrollables.

Yep.

I feel like llamas were, like, kind of an uncontrollable. What were the other.

It was like, the unknowns.

The unknowns. Yeah.

Yeah.

And I was thinking about this because.

Like, on my mountain goat hunt, it.

Was like, all right, there's a lot of unknowns. And then, like, as you start to chip away the unknowns, you get into, like, doing what you know, and we were. We were kind of talking about this on the way up, and there's like, we're in a totally new area through a dart at a map. Kind of like you have some experience, but specifically, we're like, okay, this pocket. And then, like, it's not just the pocket that we wanted. It was like the surrounding, you know, six miles. Yeah, the surrounding.

We saw elk at six miles this morning, right? Yeah.

Yeah.

And so, like, it's but it's still like, you e. Scout a spot, you've never been there before. And so there's that unknown. Like, there's not the. The unknown of, like, is camp. Like, can we camp there? You know, like, we're literally camped on the dot that, like, we had selected of, like, maybe, but we didn't know.

We had no idea.

Never been here.

And so then you're like, I don't know.

Trailhead. Yeah, that's the unknown. It's like there's all these, like, unknowns that you're, like, trying to work through but before you can start hunting. And I feel like it was like, okay, check them off, check them off, check them off. And then like this morning we actually got to glass. We.

We got in late enough that it.

Was like, it wasn't really worth climbing up a th000b.

We did see two herds of elk on the way in, though.

We did.

We did. We got into elk and I mean.

In pockets that we expected elk in. Right. Like, it was like, oh, like those were.

I call them circles, but it's like.

Those were like the area shape tools we used is like, yeah, it could possibly be elk here. Could be here, could be here. And so it's like, it's. It's always reassuring me, like, the first one, you know, is like, you get to. Is like, oh, man. See elk from the trail. Like, that's pretty good day.

Yeah. Then the other unknown was like, how much hunter pressure is there going to be?

And we.

We found that out too.

Yeah, I think a little bit.

Be some.

Yeah, dude. I go back and forth like it is kind of. You don't want it to get to.

You, but, like, we're. Yeah.

Almost eight miles in and we're camped 300 yards from six of our best friends. And so, like, everything would be a little bit different if I didn't have that. You know, it's like. But I also know that that was coming whether, you know, whether it was like they were here. You know, we came in early so we could scout. These guys came in early so they could scout. But I think, like, when you're here and there's nobody, I'm still in my mind, like, it is a general rifle hunt. Like, there are going to be people like, that's not, you know, whatever.

This is always a factor.

It's always a factor.

Yeah.

But it. Dude, you get here and like, there's someone right next to you. And like, you just this added, like, okay, all the elk we saw this morning now there are like, are those guys gonna go screw them up? Are they gonna bump them? Or they get, you know, like, adds us, like, oh, well, we gotta go after this one now because, like, we just don't know, right? Yeah, I try not to, like, let that get to you. I don't know. I tend to, like, I'd be curious because, like, it's the same with bucks. Do you think it's, like, hunt it? Like, no one's there. Don't screw it up yourself because you think someone else is gonna do it for you.

Yeah.

Like, you know, in some ways, it's like, just execute well, and if it's. It doesn't work out, it doesn't work out.

Yeah, you can't be sloppy, though. Like, you can't be late.

Yeah. You can't rush it.

You can't rush the wind. Like, you can't just try to get in there and to just get it over with. Like, you get killed. You still got to do all the right things. That's. That's. I think the biggest variable when you have people is, like, you just got to do the right things, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

Well, I mean, spoiler alert. We found a good bowl this morning. Literally right where, like, my one spot that I wanted to get to, and that's kind of, like, been the. Been the thing. It's like, oh, there's other guys here. There's a shooter here, and it's like, you kind of want to. I don't know, you get nervous. You get, like, you make bad decisions.

You rush things.

Like, so I'm trying not to, like, let that get in my head. Yeah.

The nice thing is, like, we talked to these guys and kind of were, like, told them we wanted to go to the north, and they were like, sweet. We were planning to hunt the south. Yeah. And it was like, okay, cool. Hopefully they stick with that. Yeah.

But you just never know.

Yeah, you don't. You don't. Especially with, like, they've got a crew of six. They rolling deep.

They're rolling six deep. My only thought is, like, we definitely saw elk on. On their half of the drainage, and so we're like, well, hopefully they're occupied with those elk. And, like, I don't think they could see this bull. So that's. I don't know. It's a hope, dude.

There's this thing about how, like, hunter pressure feels a lot higher when there's less animals. And do you think that's true? Like, if there was only. Yeah, if there's only Two herds out.

There's only one herd up here.

Yeah.

Dude, we saw six groups of elk today. Like, we're sitting fat. Like, you know, like if there were one place. Yeah, yeah. Like, if they didn't. Yeah, we know they saw elk. Like, let's just call a space fade. If they didn't, we'd be worried that they're like, okay, now we're gonna go to the north, because we didn't see anything to the south. And so, like, a part of me is like, oh, thank God there was elk to the south to like, decoy those guys over there.

But I don't know.

And they seem like honest guys, but also, like, how much stock do you put into them being like, yeah, we'll just hunt the south? Like, no, none. Yeah.

I don't know. Again, it goes back to, like, you know, let's just execute well. And if it doesn't fall in our favor, like, it is what it is. Like, there's so many other variables too. Like, we're looking at the weather right now and. And it's like, well, chance of snow tonight, you know, and this bull's bugling Rutten, and, you know, he's in a high basin and he's got cows. Like, if we get a skiff of snow tonight, he could bounce. Yeah, he could totally just bounce. I mean, he could bounce anyway, like, Like, I'm just not. Like, there's nothing guaranteed with this situation. It's like there's so many unknowns.

It's like, well, that's what we can do, you know?

I don't know.

So not very many people get a rifle hunt the 1st of October.

Right.

Would you be more comfortable if you had a lone big bull, like at the end of October?

Yeah, I mean, I told you. I was like. Because we found. On the way in, we found some elk in a burn pocket that was pretty thick and pretty hard to see into. And I was like, actually, before we even found the elk, we're like, we. We climbed up just a glass, give the llamas a break, and we're like glassing into this timber pocket. And I literally was like, dude, I could totally see a big bowl with like two cows in that timber pocket. And just because it was like kind of a mid mountain saddle where, like, it ved in, it had green grass in there.

It was like a bench.

And it was a bench. Yeah.

And it was like, it was thick.

Right.

And I have found a lot of bulls in places like that in the past. And so, like, my mind was like, oh, gosh, this looks so good. And I would be ideal, like, that my ideal scenario is to find him, you know, a giant that's got two cows and not, like, you know, not a whole pile of cows, because I feel like it's a little bit easier to manage. You know, he's probably going to be more comfortable there. Whereas, like, the herd we found is, you know, going back to this Nucleus concept. It's like, there's 20, 30 cows. There's multiple bulls. There's, like, another subgroup off the side with a different bull. And it's like, I don't know. To me, you get to, like, that October time frame, and, like, you're just asking for big bulls to walk away. And so, like, that's just where I'm at. I'm like, we'll see.

Yeah, I don't have, like.

I don't have, like, that much confidence that we're gonna kill that bull tomorrow if I'm really honest.

Okay, that's good.

I don't think it's, like, a guaranteed thing by any stretch.

The cool thing is, is, like, he's kind of. We were looking at this bull closer on the phone, like, the digiscoping footage, and you were like, he, like, definitely should kill him, but he also might be on the border. Right. We were looking for.

And so, like, if he. If he slipped out of my life, I wouldn't be.

It'd be like, shoot, darn. But now we got to go find another one. And, like, that's kind of half the fun, right?

Totally.

And I mean, like, I don't know.

What's your thought?

Because I feel like we've. It was too easy. Like, literally found that bull first scout day. I don't know, 30 minutes, 20 minutes after daylight. Like. Like, oh, there's a shooter.

Yeah.

I actually had to work for a little more.

I'm. I've got a lot. I'm running on a streak of shooters on the opening day.

Yeah.

And so I'm like. I'm not sure if it's just when you start putting together really good plans. Is that how it works? I do.

I do think that some of it.

Like, I think we had a solid.

Game plan, and, yeah.

Like, it all came together.

I. Dude, that is super cool. And you're like, here's the spot. Here's where we camp. Here's the ridge. We hike. Here's the glassing point. And you execute all of those things, and then you're like, ta da. Shooter. That's crazy.

Yeah, but it's like, because you just aren't cutting corners. Like, we're not half ass in this hunt, like, at all.

Right.

We were talking about how, like, most people on a general hunt are just, like, trying to shoot an elk. Right. And so we just did things a little differently.

Yeah. Which hopefully means no hunting pressure because we're much closer to the sheeps than we are the elks.

Yeah, that's true, dude. Thought that went through my mind, though, is like, we. We walked past. Not only, like, did we, you know, think we walked back past elk. We, like, know we walked past elk to get to where we're at. Like, and I know a lot of people will say, like, don't walk past elk to find elk.

I say that all the time.

It's dumb.

You should definitely walk past elk to find out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why? Why is. Why should someone walk past elk to find elk?

Because let's just take those first elk that we ran into. They're three miles from the trailhead, right?

At three.

Yeah, yeah. Like, and here's what's gonna happen. I. Like, maybe. Let's just say we wanted to shoot any six point.

There's a six point in there.

Maybe. Maybe they come out and do the same thing, and we're just like, right there at the right time. But far more likely there's, like, you're.

Gonna have pressure there. Like, it's just in that bubble of, like, day riders, like, people riding in for the day.

It's.

We saw him from the trail. Like, I mean, we're. We're not that special. Right? Yeah, like someone else. And so, like, you're just.

The odds of something going sideways are.

Higher at that three mile mark than.

At the nine mile mark. Right.

Like, you know, you get in nine miles, like, it's still not zero. Like, they still could get blown out.

Like, it's not that far.

I mean, we're sitting next to guys.

That also have tags.

Yeah.

Right.

So, like, so they.

It could definitely get blown out. Um, you know, so to me, I.

Think you just, like, walk by elk that are low probability.

Right.

And I think, like, with archery, like, we talk about this a lot where it's like, yeah, there's elk there, but, like, they're not talking. They're like, nothing's going on. There's. They're gonna be hard to kill. Like, you're gonna have to get shithouse lucky to kill those elk.

Right.

And I've just been around. I was like, don't. Don't hunt those ones. Hunt better ones. And if you can hunt elk that are like super vocal is a whole.

You know, there's a lot of elk.

There'S a lot of action, there's satellites, there's chaos.

Right.

Like it's, I don't want to say it's easy to be successful in the chaos, but like it's a lot more opportunity rich environment. And like I think in the same thing with a rifle it's like man, if you could just get away from the added pressure that helps. Like now. Yeah, guys are still going to kill elk. You know, I just think that like your odds probability probably higher. Like if you can get away from people and hunt elk that aren't going to be hunted.

Was this like, do you think this is the difference between controlling all the variables you can and trying to do it on purpose versus guys who kind of get lucky using pressure or whatever?

Totally.

Yeah, totally. Like yeah. 100 like you know, like they're like both of our dads did like this sit on this ridge and like, you know, this is where they get pushed through. That gets you like a 10 success rate. Like yeah. Versus like hey, work your face off. Go to sheep country, find a high hanging basin that has a rutting elk in it and guess what? Like you like in theory, I hate to even say this, in theory we'll be able to glass up those oak in the morning, see the, see where they're at and then make a play, move the play the right way instead of being like man, we gotta like shoot within 20 minutes of it getting light or else it's not going to happen. Which is like, oh, we got to move in the dark because someone else.

Is going to move.

And then you bump those elk in the dark. And then you know like there's just.

A lot of things that can go wrong.

Trying to like be the first guy in a competition.

Yeah, that makes sense. So when you're thinking about rifle elk in general. Well, rifle deer too, but rifle seasons. I made this comment when we were walking down. I was like, cuz you're like, well what do you think? Is it going to get worse? And or I, I said something like that and you said well it's not going to get better. And I remember there was a comment someone made once that was like there's two phases of rifle elk season. Opening day and all the other days.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that still holds true. And we were talking about with this bull, you know, a part of like the get this thing killed urge in the back of your head is because, you know, it's opening day, and then, like, the pressure is only going to increase. But, you know, and so, like, generally speaking, I used to say, like, man, for rifle, I'd rather scout five days, have the bull kill him. Opening day, right? Still holds true. I think that's like, you know, right now we're trying to find elk that are not messed with, and the rest of the week we may find elk, but now we're contending with storms, weather, people and pressure. Like gunshots going off in every other canyon. So, like, the. I'm not say it's entirely shithouse luck after this, but, like, you know, this is where it's like, oh, here's the plan. Bulls are doing this. They're moving from here to here. They hang up in this basin and we get to this ridge, we can make it happen, right? Who knows if that's true in three to five days from now? Yeah, it's like, oh, there's an elk, but he's like, you know, busted, or he's hiding, whatever, you know.

And.

And like, it's hard to say. I mean, but there's also. Let's take weather. Like, we got a big storm coming in, right? And we're like, okay. A part of you kind of wants to see what the storm does. You know, it's going to be easier to find elk. I don't know. Could push them around. It, like, could change the entire hunt, who knows?

Yeah, that's one of the things. Like, I have this guy who's hunting also an October 1st opener, and he was like, man, we're going to hunt until Friday. And then the storm hit Saturday. We're gonna leave before the storm hits. And I was kind of like, I don't know if that's. That's the right move, man. Like, what do you think? Like, is the storm. Does it create so much uncertainty that you don't like hunting storms? Or is it, like, it could create enough, like, shake up that you like it a lot?

It's hard on the first week because, like, the first week is a very different. Like, we're hunting, elk are still rutting, right? And, like, I'd rather have that. Like, right now we're trying to find unmolested elk that are still doing elk things, and we're choosing terrain based on that. But if this, you know, once season opens, like, we both, you know, hunt storms, right? Like, like, oh, storm's coming. Like, doesn't matter what day of the week it is. Doesn't matter if weekend doesn't matter anything else. We hunt the storm. Right. Because what the storm does is like, two things. Like, in Wyoming, it's for sure moving elk out of places you can't hunt to places you can't hunt.

Like, that's.

That's a unique feature of Wyoming.

And places in Montana.

And places in Montana, too, for sure. But also, like, you get this fresh blanket of tracks, right? And you'd be like, oh, there's elk tracks. Like, there's elk here somewhere. Like, even if you didn't see them, right then, you know, you're like, that's cool. Like, you get this fresh new blanket of, like, sign that you get to read, which is only unique to, you know, having fresh snow. So, like, that's a big piece of it. And, like, they tend to be out more.

Right.

Like, they're. They're going to be out longer and those things. But that's all post rut behavior right now. We're like, we're kind of trying to hunt rut behavior almost. And so a part of me is like, yeah, I kind of wish we.

Didn'T have a storm.

I'd rather have just like, sunny and 50 and. Yeah, right. Like, I'd rather have the rut continue. And I don't. I don't know. I mean, we've talked about this a lot. I think snow tends to. To flip things.

Not always.

You know, is it guaranteed that this bowl peels off and leaves if we get snow tonight? No, not at all. Like, he could be running like crazy tomorrow for all we know. I see. It's hard to say, especially with like.

A skiff versus, like, a storm.

A skiff. I mean, these elk are pretty used to getting skiffs, you know, all the time at, you know, above 10,000.

Yeah.

So what's your thought, dude?

I just.

I have always.

I've never really hunted elk during this time frame a lot. It's always been like a weekend rip or whatever. And if we got snow, I'm like, we're trying to just find elk.

Yeah.

And we're not going after one. So it's. I think if you're just trying to find elk, the. The storm is like, Is really good. If you're trying to hunt one.

Yeah. You're trying to find, you know, the 301 level bulls. It's is probably harder until it's not. And until it's like, you know, then they're pushed out. Because, like, honestly, the big bulls aren't pushing out of wherever. Yeah.

No. And that's what I told a Lot of guys, like, everything I know about the first season in Colorado, for example, is like, starts the 15th or 13th, whatever day it is. And I'm like, bro, they're still up top. Like, yeah, they're not. They're not bailing yet, you know, like, unless they get two gangster storms. Like two heavy, heavy storms maybe.

But. Yeah, but a lot of the big bulls aren't.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I'm like, I kind of don't want. I don't want to know this trip. I don't think it bent.

I think we're gonna get it, though.

Oh, I know for sure.

Yeah.

It's just the way the cookie crumbles, but.

Yeah.

Like, if you could wave a magic wand, would you have snow this trip?

No, I would want, like, steady. Listen, I would like a high pressure system. Maybe it gets to 60 degrees during the day, but 30s at night. Like, something that was predictable. Right. We have anything but predictable right now.

The only upside of that is, like, do you think the snow is going to kick out hunters?

Yeah. So that was the big thing. Like, the storm is supposed to hit on Saturday when it's opening weekend. And I'm like, people will buzz the roads like they always do during the storm, but I'm not sure you're gonna get guys, like, packing. Either packing in or like, pounding hills after they've packed in, you know?

Yeah.

Because that just sucks.

And especially on those, like, tight storms, too, where it's like a day or two. Like, people are just like, I'll just wait, you know?

Yeah, let's take Monday off, going Sunday instead of Saturday or whatever.

Yeah, yeah, it'll be interesting, man. I don't know. I have no idea. Do you kill that bull tomorrow? So we know.

Yeah, let's just. Well, the cool thing is we got two tags, so, yeah, we'll be able to test it. You know, we'll like. Yeah, try to do, like. I think that's one of the fun parts about all these hunts is, like, because we know we have all these theories, we can test it out. But I also feels like this area in particular, like, people hunt hard, and that's not always the case, like, with these different areas. Do you think it just depends on the hunt, too?

Well, you know, the other variable you have is, like, people are going to start hunting hard, which is going to kick things around.

Right.

And so you and I were talking, like, man, we were up on the glassing knob this morning. It's like, this isn't a bad spot to be for the sheer Fact that once they start hunting in X canyon over, you know, it's gonna push. It could push stuff here. Whereas, like, this is. This canyon's kind of a pain in the ass to get to. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so that's. That's the next factor. I forgot the question. What was the question?

Does this. Do you think it, like, just depends on the hunt and it's like, I guess, but, like, you're saying, like, it depends on the terrain probably more than anything.

It does. Because, you know, the other thing I was going to say about is, like, generally speaking, I take the Idaho hunt. I did the rifle hunt I had a couple years ago where it was like I was covering ground, so much ground and just trying to find the pockets. And then once you find that pocket, you kind of hone in on it.

Was it a pocket where, like, nobody else was hunting?

Yeah, it was trying to. You're trying to find the gap between hunting pressure and where the elk are and huntability and, like, killability and, like, you know, I like finding pockets where I maybe. I don't know, like, I can glass, you know, like, it's harder to glass. Like, it's not just like. Like this. This is a good example of, like, I don't feel like it's that hard to glass. Like, it's.

Yeah, but it's kind of like a mixture, though. Like, if they drop out of that upper basin and go down, then you have to, like, you got to. You got to work around different angles, and it takes you a mile around to the basin to still get a different angle.

But it's not going to be like. With rifle, I like to cover a ton of ground, find the pocket. When I have that pocket hunch, which could be three miles, right? Like, it could be, like, a pretty significant area. I'm not saying, like, this one hole. I'm saying a big range. It's like, okay, I think this is the pocket, right? Like, we're going to have the age class. We're going to have the huntability, like, all those things, and then just like, kind of burn it down where it's like you're glassing it from multiple angles multiple days in a row. Because what happens in my mind is everyone else is bouncing around and they're trying to find that one out in the open. But, like, you really kind of gotta. Seems like these elk. You gotta find the pocket, and then, you know, you gotta get close, right? Like, you kind of gotta figure it out. Or like, double tap, right? Like double tap. Into this area. I think we probably have that right here. Like, we did see six herds. I mean, opening day could change that. But, like, okay, let's, like, this crick over here. I'm trying not to use names. This crick over here where it's like, you know, we saw that group and it's that stuff. It's going to be hard to see from anywhere.

Right.

And it's just like, it's hard to hunt.

We're two miles away looking down into it and going, like, I don't know how the frick we're going to get there, but.

Right.

And they're probably there.

How you see, like, how you're going to, like, hunt it to be able to, like, see into that. You know, that group that was, like, to the left, like.

Yeah.

You could see him for a minute, and that was it. Like, to me, that screams like, there's got to be something in there. That's a good. That's a good pocket for pressure delta. Go hide in. Because, like, I can't see them, and I'm on top of the world. You aren't going to see them from closer.

Yeah.

So, like, I like those. And so I tend to say, like, with a rifle, it's like, figure out where kind of that spot is and then get tight and try to, like, you know, dig them out. So when we say, like, you know, we just got to dig them out, like, that means, like, it's gonna be hard glassing. Like, we're not trying to feed the easy ones. We're trying to find, like, the places where it's going to be hard because that's inherently. Those elk know they can find those pockets. No one's going to find them.

That makes sense. Yeah. So it's kind of like, I guess this is the difference between scouting and hunting them too. Right. Because when we're scouting, you're, like, sitting way the frick back.

Yep.

And like, we saw this one ridgeline behind us is four and a half miles long, like, from where we're at to the peak. And there's two herds of elk in, like, two tiny pockets and. Yep. But then when you got to kill them, like, you got to play things a little different. Right.

Well, it's like this whole ridge right behind us. You know, it was. It was labeled in the east guiding plan as like, hey, there could be oak here and there was elk there. But, like, I don't know that there's enough to hide those elk.

Right.

Like, that's going to be one of the Spots where guys like these guys can't max us. We're going to kick them out of there pretty quick.

And there's a horse trail at the top. Like, you can get around on it.

You can get around.

Yeah. I mean, like, it's just not. It's not that hidy. Right. Like, you know, there. There could be elk there. You know, like yesterday it was technically the same ridge where we thought, man, it'd be. This seems like a pocket you could find elk. We ended up seeing two spikes and a calf, and it was like, you. You're really, like, God, this could be a spot to find a big bull. But that seems like open day, opening day, or.

Or bust. Like.

Like, yeah.

It's gonna be like that thing's gonna get chewed up or they're gonna get kicked out of there.

Yeah.

And they're gonna go to a place like that over here where it's like, you can't see them freaking things from anywhere.

Yeah. Like, and as we found out, like, there's a lot of these little subtrails that are, like, not on the map because, like, I just was walking, and then all of a sudden, we ended up off, like, off our mark. And I was like, oh, but apparently people are riding around up back in there.

Yeah.

So that's a good point. So if you have someone who, like, let's say they did this work, they went in and found elk the day before opener. I've got a client doing the same thing in Colorado now. He. His dad.

Okay.

Two things. His dad has this, like, tag. It took 29 years to draw. They're sitting on this herd of elk, and another guy scouting, freaking bumped the herd, and they were like, oh, like, now hopefully they're doing the same thing. Kind of like the same conversation we're having, except slightly different. They didn't. They're 800 yards from a road, not 8 miles.

Did they find those elk again?

They watched them bump into a different drainage. So they know what drainage they bump to, but they threw them off of their, like, daily pattern.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, okay. But that notwithstanding, like, if you're someone who's scouted out elk and you're, like, waiting for the opener to come a day or maybe two, what's the playbook for the opening morning?

That's a good question. So two, a couple things of that.

And this is like, I don't know.

Elk are gonna get bumped. Like, it's just gonna happen. And I don't want to say those are bad elk or good. Okay. I don't I don't have enough context. Um, but, like, that's the inherent problem with, like, 800 yards from the road, 800 yards from the truck elk. It's, like, high likelihood of, like, that happening, Right. I mean, the best you can do is try to watch a pattern, figure out where they're gonna be, and make a play on the earliest, the next, and maybe better thing is, you know, to be within striking distance. But, you know, striking distance is like, you're close enough to, like, strike as soon as you know, but you're not committing. So what happens a lot of times is like, okay, I watch these elk for three days in a row. If we're on this tit, we can shoot them, right? But the problem is, is that from that tit, we will not be able to see them if they do anything else. Right? And this is like the classic scenario of, like, you're full committing to a kill shot, but then if anything happens, you're screwed. Right?

Right.

And so it's like what I. What I would call striking distance is like, we're close enough that we can drop to that tit, that glassing or that little ripple or whatever it is within minutes. But, like, we're far enough back that we can see if something changes. So grab classic example of our bull tomorrow, right? Like, we're not going to drop into shooting position at daylight because if those elk are somewhere else, like, you know.

You have blown it.

Yeah, you'll have blown it.

Right.

Or.

Well, the other bad thing is, like, it's always quicker to drop than to go back up. So if, like, if we come on to that ridge that's on whatever, this west side, like, if we have to go back up and around, like, that costs us too much time versus staying on the ridge and being able to drop down either side. Like, so depending on what they do, like, we have to be able to, like, we're in striking distance, we can strike within, like, 15 to 20 minutes. We can be in a shooting position in 15 to 20 minutes, but we're far enough back that we can, like, look and see what's going on. So evaluate the situation first. Don't. Don't Hail Mary into something unless you really think, like, you know, your buddies camp 300 yards away has seen them too. You know, this may all change if we go up tonight and those guys come up behind us and they're like, oh, hey, nice Al here.

Yeah, I guess that's one of the hard things is, like, trying to play it the right way and not like being concerned about what other people are doing.

But I think, and I, I think this is interesting. It goes into mindset, it goes into the me, the, the mental side of hunting, which is like, you think it's always going to get screwed up. You're like, you're like, oh, you know, and rightfully so. You have enough data to say it always gets screwed up. You know, like, this has happened to me in the past or whatever it may be. And like so in your head you're like, it's gonna go wrong. And I think, you know, this happens in archery where you've screwed it up so many times you expect it to get screwed up. And so then you kind of make not rushed or bad decisions, but rushed or bash decisions.

Right.

Like you do things a little bit, you're like, oh, this is just gonna.

Get, you're like, this, this is gonna get screwed up. So maybe we'll make this work.

Yeah.

And you're just like, no, no, that was.

Yeah, well, half ass try or you.

Know, you see other people and you're like, oh, let's just run down in there and try to like get it real quick.

Right?

And then jokes on you. Those guys never even saw him or.

Didn'T even hear him.

And it's like, that's where it's like, it's a mental game. And like, I know hunting isn't a competition between people, but like, let's call a spade a spade. Like it sometimes is.

Yeah.

You know, and like, you're like, man, what are those guys going to do? Are they going to low hole us or are they going to do this?

And it's like, I don't know, it's kind of nice. Like I was thinking about it and I was like, in our position, if you're, if you're up there on the knob and we see those guys coming up on our side, even though they said they weren't going to. Right. I can leave you and go freaking go talk to him. Like, try to intercept them and be like, hey, there's another herd right here. Like, just go like over there. Just go over there real quick. But like, the nice thing is there's enough elk around that I can do that and not be trying to screw them over because I, I be like, dude, there's a freaking herd right behind you.

We did that.

Stuart and I did that on a, on that bullish out with the Sharps, actually. So I had that bull spotted him multiple days before season. Watched him. Opening day was like, let's Slip in, right? And so we slip in. And that was.

That was kind of where that one.

Almost screwed us, because it was like, we slipped in, and they were always on this face, and all of a sudden, they were on our face. We got super lucky that we saw them, because, like, it was just like, oh, there they are. Like, but they're on our side today, not on that side. And it was. It worked out. But we had Stuart stay up top and act like he was glassing just to, like, so no one would come down. Mainly because we were worried that someone would see him on the other side. Right. And it was like, so, like, hey, Stuart, you stay here and, like, just keep anybody from going down. Not like you were like, hey, stop. But it was like, well, it's, like.

Nice if you're like, someone comes down the trail. Like, the way it should work is like, hey, what are you guys doing? Where are you going? Like, this is actually just how we talked to these guys yesterday, and we're doing great. And then we're like, all right, we'll just try to stay out of each other's hair. Like, in a perfect world, that's how it goes.

Yeah, but I totally. But, like, I mean, like, generally speaking.

If you're, like, going down a rage.

And you see someone in Colorado, this is not true. But, like, most places where you're remote of some kind, it's like, oh, that guy's on that ridge. I'll go to this ridge or whatever. Like, yeah, somewhere else.

Yeah, Colorado.

That doesn't exist because there's, like, 10, 000 people.

That's true. And most people aren't trying to hunt, like, 301 bulls. Like, so they're, like, just happy with being like, okay, sounds good. Like, there's hers over here, too. Like, no, no problem.

Yeah.

I just think it's always change. It also changes when there's a big bull involved. Like, people do shady things.

That's true. And that's one of the nice things about a general tag is, like, people don't usually have a big bull found.

Like your buddy stag. It's like, you know, you get those big bulls in those areas. It's like, do people.

Yeah. Well, you got out. You got two or three outfitters looking at the same bowl, and you've got, like, two or three of the 20 tag holders are trying to hunt the same bull, and you're just like, ah, dude. Brutal.

You know, Tony treats. You see that boy killed.

Yeah.

So actually, the one he killed last year, it was like, Giant bull. And you know, that was one of those things where he had outfitters on top of it. Like they knew about it. And then I think there was another guy and he like said something in the video where it's like another guy came in but, you know, talked to Tony and Tony been hunting it for years. And so the guy was like, oh yeah, you go get it. You know, you've been hunting this bull a long time. And I was like, that's pretty cool.

That is cool.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's actually the benefit. Like, I'd always rather talk to somebody totally. And either they'll screw you over and then they look like even bigger of a dick. But if you didn't talk to them, they didn't know, then there's no way for them to try.

If these guys came down, would you tell them? Would you say, hey, we got a bull over here or no?

I would pro. Like if they came to talk to us today. Yeah. I'd be like, hey, we have a herd of elk up right here or not right here. But I'd be like up and over, down the backside. Yeah. I'd probably make it sound heinous.

But.

Like, we've got to play over there. Don't worry about us. We're not going to screw up your side.

Yeah.

You know, so.

And by the way, we saw elk here, here and here on your side.

Yeah. And then we also saw some in this flat on their way in. Yeah. Yeah.

In fact, if you just walk all the way back to the trucks, there's.

Elk all around the trucks.

Yeah.

Ye.

So then the last factor that is like the unknown.

I don't.

It's like a minor on. Depends on who you are. Whether you call this a minor unknown or not is managing meat in grizzly country after we kill something. We were talking about that.

Yeah.

I don't know. Right.

How.

How nervous are you in grizzly country right now?

I'm a lot less nervous as soon as we're away from a carcass. Like when you're on the carcass, like working on the carcass. Like, this is the. This is the epicenter of places where people say that the gunshots are dinner bells.

Oh yeah.

Like, this is where I've heard like tale of that. I've killed bulls in this same unit and have not had that be the case. But it is just like you hear enough people talk about it like it probably like gets. Gets.

You think that's better or worse above 10,000ft.

So my outfitter buddy who works up here, when I say up here, like he's in this mountain range, he says that all the grizzly bears after the first hard freeze go to the bottoms. So it might be better right. This time.

Right.

If you're down in the river bottoms, down in the willows, like, yeah. I would be really nervous.

That's. That was kind of my thought with it is like, man bulls above 10,000, I feel like should be fine.

You got a pretty good chance of that not ever even getting picked up anytime soon. Right.

Like, versus, like those bulls we saw on the way in. Like, that seems like premier grizzly bear country. Yeah.

Well, and I. I saw a grizzly bear off of the road that we drove in during archery season one year, like three, four years ago. So it's like, I'm like, oh, yeah.

We saw grizzly tracks almost every mile that we walked in.

Yeah. The last. Well, actually the last two miles, we didn't see a grizzly. You see, like, once we got up above Totally fine, 9,000ft.

Yeah.

So, yeah, maybe there is something to that is like, where we're at is helpful, but then once we get. Then we're also talking about it already, which maybe we shouldn't be, but it's worth considering is like, how the frick do we get an elk down and camp and 10 days of food? So I think we settled on a good plan, though. Like, it. Last time we talked, it was like, we'll get the meat to the truck and we'll just come back here and.

Stay in this area or not.

Yeah.

I don't think we have enough data to know whether we should stay. Yeah.

Here tonight, tomorrow night, or tomorrow morning will tell.

I think tomorrow will tell us a lot because like, hunting pressure, Right.

Yeah.

I think we're in a good spot to stay. Because of honey pressure. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I want to see what happens.

None of these other places are not going to have hunting pressure.

Right.

Like, if this is. This is a hard place to get to and if it has honey pressure, like, every hard place to get to is going to have honey pressure.

Yeah. I think, you know, you had said, like, hey, let's just take five days of food. And I said, just take all the food. My concern there was, like, it was going to snow and then we'd have to come out early or something like that. In retrospect, I think you were right. We probably should have taken five days, done five days here, and then flip to our plan B. So I think if we Kill. I think we just leave this camp, take half our food down, like, leave enough to like, stay a few days. And I think honestly, if we just plan to go out, you know, Friday or Saturday, depending on storm. I don't know, do you want to stay up here for the storm or do you want to go down?

I probably wouldn't want to be at 10,000ft during the storm.

Fair.

Fair. But I mean, the other spots that we have to look at are also at.

But are you going to be locked in up here?

Like, you're just.

Yeah, I think you could be. So you might need to like be at 9 or 8500 to see.

Well, my.

It's just kind of pointless to be up in the clouds.

Yeah.

How long is that storm gonna last?

Two days.

Yeah.

I don't think Saturday and Sunday.

Yeah, I think I'd rather.

Because you can't hit the high knob from here. You might as well be in.

Won't be able to see anything.

Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. You can't see from the high knobs here, so you might as well be down at like 8,500ft looking across the canyon, looking up.

So either way, I say no matter what happens tomorrow, we're probably just like push this camp down Friday.

Yeah.

That gives us two days, two and a half days. We hunt Friday morning and then we push down.

The nice thing about that is, is like by then we'll either have killed or have lost sight of this.

I think we'll have screwed up this entire area, like, with six other people here. Like, I think this will be a wash by Friday.

Yeah.

And then we'll know more and then we can be like, okay, plan B.

Or plan C. The nice thing is I know these guys aren't going to be here till Sunday, so.

No, they didn't seem like they brought enough gear to stay very long.

Yeah. And also they usually have planes on Sunday.

I think it's true.

Yeah.

That's facts.

Yeah. Anyway.

Yeah.

Don't pumped.

Yeah. I'm gonna kill both.

Is there any other thoughts like that would be helpful for someone who's in this position, like rifle hunting? Getting into it. Yeah. Just getting into a rifle season. That's a general tag. Like. Or hell if. Even if it's not a general tag, you just like, expect rifle pressure because usually people have outfitters and friends and helping them.

So I think at the end of the day, gosh, I hate it because, like, what we just did is kind of the antithesis of this, which is like, we came in a long ways. We found a hard to get to place. And like, all of our plans are to hunt really hard to get to places. Not necessarily high mileage, because horses can cover high mileage. But it's like, how do we get away from horses? For us, I guess it is kind of COVID ground, which is cover the right ground, not ground that horses. Horse guys are going to cover.

And cover it with optics.

Try to cover with optics. So, like, the whole thing here was like, get into this really hard to get to place where we can glass, you know, some really good pockets and not necessarily the whole world, but, like, some really good pockets. But at the end of the day, I think it's like, after that, it's cover ground, cover ground. Like, you know, and like, we had talked about this, like, oh, what happens if xyz? And it's like, well, we just go back to the drawing board and we just start covering drainages, like, and we just cover them. Cover and like, cover ground till you find a pocket. Right. And then pick the pocket apart.

And it's not.

If you don't find the shooter, next one. Like, and I think you have to cover a lot of ground. You got to be willing to move camp, which is a big one. I think a lot of rifle hunters tend to, like, we're shitting up camp here, George. And like, you know, they'd stay here for a week. Whereas, like, I have no qualms about ripping this down tomorrow and, like, hiking another eight miles. Yeah, I don't think we need to. But, like, hypothetically, you have to have that mindset of, like, stay mobile, cover ground, try to hit the pockets no one else is hitting. And when you find elk, like, like, it seems like elk are pockety this time of year. Like, as they. I say that still September, but, like, in October, they're going to be pockety. You know, you find them.

Yeah.

And then dig out a good one.

I like it. We'll just keep people updated on these podcasts because. And we'll keep it kind of short so that we can keep the story rolling.

That's the game plan. Kill Bull tomorrow.

Yeah. And then we'll report back.

We'll report back if that happened.

And then we'll kill another one.

And then we'll kill another one. We'll pour back when that happens.

Yeah. All right, thanks. Look, I know a lot of you haven't even stepped foot on this year's hunt yet, but it's time to start thinking ahead. The truth is the most popular hunts and best units fill up fast. Plus, draw deadlines creep up on you like a ninja in the night. We've already had over a dozen hunters reach out to lock in their Hunt west planning services for 2026, so I'm inviting you to do the same. If you want a detailed hunt plan that puts you ahead of the curve next season or one on one consulting for tag applications, now is the time to get on the schedule. Plus, prices are increasing at the first of the year, so this is your chance to get locked in with this year's services structure. Just fill out the booking form linked in the show notes and let's get started planning your next hunt. Hunt west planning company plan better. Enjoy hunts more. All right, now back to the show. You're listening to the Hunt west podcast.

Testing one, too.

Yep, you're good. I've got you. Go ahead.

All I gotta say is I love it when a plan comes together.

Dude, I didn't even think, like, our plan just, like, was money. We got two dead elk in the back of the truck and had her headed home now, so.

And it's only day three. Yeah, well, it was day four, technically.

Yeah, technically it's day four of season, but, I mean, we basically just woke up this morning, packed our crap up, and, like, left, so.

Which worked out really good because it, it, it absolutely stormed last night. And in fact, not. Not to be a spoiler alert, but the last quarter mile of the gnarly packout day we got, they started raining pretty good. And then all last night it rained. And you know, it's funny is, like, that last quarter mile, it was getting pretty muddy. And we almost said, like, man, this is a big day. Let's come back tomorrow and get the last load. But then we were like, no way. I don't want to do it in the rain. And the last quarter mile was so muddy, I was freaking glad we didn't have to go back in.

Dude, it's just like the classic Wyoming mud that just like starts building on the bottom of your shoes and you get taller and it. You slip with every step. It sucks. And then on top of that, I'm glad we got our bulls killed before then, too, because, like, that would have been. This whole next few days would have been crappy. Just the whole time would have been like this fighting the weather and, like, probably would have been okay elk hunting.

But, I mean, we kind of talked ourselves into, like, oh, snow is a good thing. Like, it's gonna be snowing. And, like, that's gonna push stuff around, which I actually think would have been fine. I'm just, you know, not mad that we got it done before then.

I agree. So, okay. Last. Last time people heard, like, we had found a bull and we were scout. We had scouted them up, and we had made a game plan for opening morning.

Yeah.

So what happened?

So it was the day before season. I found that bull. You and I split up, and I was like, yeah, I think I got a shooter. And I was kind of on the fence, but it was, like, definitely big enough to ground check, which I'm really glad we did and just is a good example. Like, sometimes you get ground growth, not ground shrinkage. But yeah, had a game plan. We went in opening morning, climbed up. I don't know, climbed up and got into position. We actually went the. That night. So back up a little bit. The scout day we had, we went back out that night and didn't see him. We weren't overly concerned about it because we couldn't. There was a part of the canyon we couldn't see. And it's like, well, maybe he's there. So, long story short, it was kind of like going up opening morning was like, man, I hope he's there, because we didn't see him the night before. Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't quite like we put him to bed. So still a little bit unknown, but get up there and honestly, we're touch late, but that's fine. I mean, it was still gray light, but pretty much instantly we're like, yep, he's exactly where he was yesterday morning.

Cool.

You know, we looked at him again, and I was like, yeah, we're shooting this thing for so many reasons. One, he's rutting like crazy. Two, he was above 10,000, which I always want to kill a bull over 10,000. And see, it was like, now that I was 1500 yards closer, I was like, yeah, I think we should shoot this bull and see what he scores. I mean, it doesn't matter. It was just. It was epic all around. We're going to make it happen, dude.

One of the things about that, though, is, like, we left the tent and what, an hour and a half before. Yeah, before daylight, before shooting light. Because, you know, even though we had, you know, packed in eight miles, it was still another, like, mile and a half, two miles, and, like, a thousand vertical to get up to that basin. So it wasn't like it was. We just roll out of the tenies right there. It was a freaking hoof just to get Started after we've already hoofed in. So that was like a. I think that's a detail that like people wouldn't think of when they're like, oh, once you go into the backcountry, you don't have to.

Oh yeah.

Oh, it's still another journey after that.

And to get to the side, a lot of it was like to. To get. So where I saw him from, like I said, was at least 1500 yards closer. And the way we wanted it to go to end up to be into like shooting position if we, you know, we could. Which worked out good. We get there, cracks, daylight, we look at it and we're like, heck yeah. And we're like, oh, we'll just drop right here. And so we kind of put ourselves in that position where it's like, if we see him from here and he does what he did, we'll be able to drop straight in and we'll be 500 yards. Easy money. Which kind of played exactly how it started. And so it was like we drop in, bulls going nuts. We watch him for a little bit. And you know what's funny is the day before I saw him chasing a satellites off. And then opening morning, he was pretty aggressive with satellites considering it was October. Like he was running them off, right? And so we dropped down and it was, you know what's crazy about that is like we were on top and it was so windy. It was like, oh yeah, we'll just drop to there. We can get away with murder. And as soon as we dropped in, it was like dead quiet and we were very exposed. And it was just like, as soon as you got off the ridge, it was not windy at all. So we kind of like were sneaky, sneaky. And a couple times I'm like, man, we're really exposed right here, but like, let's just keep going. And we did slipped in, got set up. And just as I'm getting set up, like I'm putting my rifle out, we're getting ranges, cows are kind of spread out and we see him like running to the left. And it was like I remember thinking like, oh man, should I like make it happen? And I was like, no, like, I don't want to force a shot at like it was like 650. I was like, not happening. Like, let's.

He'll come back, like for sure.

And my. I think the first thing I said is like, is there a satellite over there? He's chasing. Like he would do that. Like, cows are pretty spread out, but he would run 100 yards off to like chase a satellite. So I first thought that was the case, but kind of as we got in, I start watching. You could see there was a calf that was like going down around the corner. And he was trying to hook that calf and bring her back. So I'm like, okay, he'll come back. And I guess we sat there, I don't know, 15, 20 minutes and he like had this calf, this calf wanted to go down the other way so badly and he was just like hanging out in the trees with her and the big herd was just, you know, out feeding. And finally he, the calf really just kind of kept going the other way. Now to kind of give big picture macro view. The day before, I had seen another herd down in this burn where he was kind of headed. And so I was like, I wonder if that calf's trying to get to that other herd. Which ended up kind of being the case. And so he went a little bit farther and it was like, okay, let's gain the ridge again, move down. Because we're like, you know, we look at Onx and we're like, if we get to here, it's, you know, 490 and we're like, let's, let's just get to there. A, option A, he comes back and, you know, we still cut him off between the big herd. But option B, he doesn't come back and we're still, you know, 490 from him. So we did. We had to scurry up the mountain super fast.

Yeah, being like close to dropping down actually kind of hurt us because we dropped immediately, like 5, 600ft. And then we had to climb right back up that 5, 600ft to like still make the stock happen.

Yeah. So we're talking good. We slipped down the ridge and.

Yeah.

We picked him up kind of on our way in there. We're like, okay, he's still in that burn.

Yeah.

And slipped in. And then we started picking out more cows and we could be like, okay, that other herds right there. And he was still on that one calf. We like, he just, you know, I don't know. She must have been the only hot calf cow, whatever. Long story short, he kind of was. He was still out of poke from where we wanted. And we were watching him and he was like on the edge of the real thick stuff. But then we started seeing other bulls in there and it was like, oh, there was actually another, I don't know.

Three 30s bull that he was nice. Yeah, it was really nice.

And it was like, okay, be careful. Cause that's not the right bull. It was, like, right where he was standing, too.

Yeah, I think at one point you were like, is that your guy or is that my guy? And I was like, no, he's got too big. A fifth guy's only defining.

And it's funny because I. I still don't know how the bull got from.

Kind of the top to, like, right below us, but, like, we hadn't seen him.

And I was so. I. I. I knew there was cows kind of lower below us, and so I. I, like, kind of creeped up the hill a little bit, and sure enough, that bull had somehow gotten down to the cows below and, yeah, marked a range. It was like 508. Yeah. Took our time. He was kind of running around, so it was hard to, like, okay, you want him? And then finally, he kind of presented a good shot.

And, yeah, I was supposed to be the guy with the digiscoping on the spotting scope. And he'd, like, run, and I'd have to pull my phone off. And, like, the scope too. Yeah. Oh, yeah, we move spots. I moved the scope. And then you're like, are you on him? I'm like, yeah, I'm on him, but my digiscoping's not on. And I was like, screw it. Like, if you wanted to shoot him, like, I'll just watch with my eye, not with the digiscoping.

So if anybody's mad that we didn't get a shot on film, it's because Jaden said we didn't have time.

So I just pulled the trigger.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dropped him in his tracks right there.

Dude. It was freaking sweet. And, you know, I'm so used to, like, hunting with other people who don't necessarily think about the next step. Like, before I could even say, like, yeah, you might shoot him again. You're like, boom, Shot him again. And I was like, yeah, that he's good, dude.

I just. Yeah. Like, my dad always taught me, like, you shoot till he stopped twitching. And he was still twitching. The other thing about that is, like, I just. I have enough experience that I don't trust a bull that drops instantly.

Yeah, like, that's.

That's not normal behavior. And I've, like, I've had this. I've lost a rifle bull. Where he dropped immediately did the exact same thing that bull did where he was kicking. And I couldn't get another shot because I would just see him flailing. And this is Craig and I a couple years ago. Bull stands up and went four miles and like I never saw him again.

Wow.

And so like, yeah, I'm like, we're just gonna put one right in his spinal cord and call it a day.

Yeah, that was, that was sweet. And your shots were freaking money. The only thing you didn't hold much for, you didn't hold at all for wind, right?

It wasn't really. It was kind of weird back.

It's just a little bit. And it's so hard cross canyon to know what's happening on that side too. That was the only minor critique of the shot because obviously it worked function. Yeah, yeah.

I mean other than that was good, but yeah, it was sweet. They were stoked we got down there. Pack out. It's funny because like when you go back and like we talk about, you know, I love it when a plan comes together. We escouted that spot and that bull was exactly where I thought they would be. Like where I killed him was right under one of my glassing pens. And when I first came up on that and looked at it, I was like, oh boy. Like this. This is big. You know, this going to be brutal. But the pack out wasn't terrible.

No, it was pretty short as far as distance. The only downside was it was all uphill to get it up to where the lot of the llamas could get it to it.

Yeah.

But yeah, man, like you said, it wasn't really that bad. Just getting them out in a couple. Couple quick hauls. You also shot him at 9am so we had like all day to get it worked up.

And yeah, it worked out good. So then they're really good. Yeah, we actually kind of contemplated whether to stick around that area or not. It was kind of like, man, by the time we get this bull out of here, get back in here, you're pretty much at the snow because at that point, snow's coming Saturday. So we ended up just like, hey, let's bail. We actually talked to the other camp and I think there was a lot of shooting, a lot of pressure going on in there. We saw a lot of people riding in and so we're like, ah, that other bulls in here. But like, you know, let's. Let's go to our plan B. And so essentially kind of on the scout plan, we had had like this plan B and it was a lot closer to the truck. So like, let's go hit that up. So we made kind of made the executive decision to spend Thursday packing. All the way back out. Yeah. So which we did Mostly had a little. Little hiccup. We had to leave.

Well, we. Well, we had two hiccups. So the first hiccup was like, we came up to the. There was no place to hang that meat. Yeah.

Because there's no trees.

There's no tree.

Yeah.

I mean, like, where we set the meat was at 10,800, and you had to go up and over 11 to get deck to cam. But then we rolled in and, like, we were packing up the meat and you were like, wait, we're missing a bag. Yeah.

That was interesting because, like, everything was there and the way we had split it, there was like, neck meat and, like, some. A couple random chunks just sitting on this rock and I mean, all the bags. So we actually, as we came up, we're like, you know, it's grace country. So we're like, looking around.

Whatever.

It's wide open. Okay. Everything's there. It doesn't look like it's been touched. And then, like, we're weighing back, trying to get everything lined out. And I'm like, doing the math here. And I'm like, wait a minute. Like, are we missing something? And, yeah, sure enough, we were missing a whole rear quarterback, which, God, to.

Me is crazy that, you know, I'm.

Assuming it was a black bear, not a great G bear, because I think a G bear would just sit on it, take the whole thing. But it's weird that they wouldn't have taken, like, that loose meat that was just out.

Yeah.

So, yeah. No idea. We looked around. No sign of, like, parts of a bag. It's like they just. Which, I mean, like you pointed out, they. The bear could have grabbed it, pulled it off the rock, and the thing fell 800ft down.

Yeah. It could have just rolled and rolled and rolled, and then the bear went chasing. I just have this vision of, like, this animated bear chasing after a rolling. And he's just like, oh, no, no, no, no. I just think it'd be funny.

So.

But one of the things, like, logistically that we were talking about staying in because we had loaded the llamas down 100% on the way in. Yeah. And so then we were like, okay, well, 100 capacity llamas. We were empty. But then I was like that. We were. We kept debating, how the heck are we going to get a full elk out and camp at the same time.

Yeah. Which is. And like, it a little bit on me because we're like, oh, should we just take three days or five days of food? And I was like, man, it's going to snow.

Let's take a, you know, let's just.

Take all our food. What's the difference? Well, it turns out, like, taking 10 days or eight days of food was like, that makes a logistical problem. So long story short, we had very, very heavy personal packs on that one.

On the way out. Yeah.

And ahead. So long story short, we ended up making it halfway back. We ditched about 80 pounds. I mean.

Yeah, 8040 pound bags.

Yeah, two 40 pound bags of meat kind of at a creek crossing. And I was like, I'll come back and get this tomorrow. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then. Yeah. So we made it back. We were at the truck making burgers. Jaden threw up a spotting scope and was like, oh, elk.

Yeah, dude. That's one of the things that, like, I think a lot of people forget is you can use your spawning scope or binos or whatever, and. And you can find crap that's like, in the backcountry, but from the trailhead. Like.

Yeah. You were road hunting the backcountry.

I was road hunting the backcountry. We were eating burgers and I'd see the. I saw these elk. And then I put my digiscoping on. You were on the phone with the fam, and I was like, hold on, I need to make my other burger. So watch the tv. And so you'd like, watch and see if there was a bull that came through.

It was so far away, though. Like, you could tell they were elk, but, like.

And you could tell one of them.

Was like, there was a bull.

Yeah, saw this one. I don't know if you ever saw it, but I saw this one bull or one elk chase another elk. And I was like, oh, it had.

To be a bull, right?

But I couldn't tell what they were, but yeah. So then it was like, well, sweet. We got to play for tomorrow. But you still had to go get the other two bags of meat that were in the tree.

So daylight or hour before. Hour and a half before daylight, Jaden takes off and I load up llamas and I go the other direction.

So, yeah, I went north. You went south. I was aiming for my glass, and knob was two miles in, and then like 500ft up off the bottom. And then you had to go three and a half miles south, right, to go get the. The meat. And so I'm like, trucking in there singing to myself because I'm like, I don't know, I'm. I'm probably a little more sketched about bears. And G bear country than you are, I think is one thing I learned.

I like.

And it's not that I'm not obviously not that I'm not willing to hunt there. It's just like I'm thinking about it a lot. Anyway, so I crawl up to the glassing knob and we figured it's like across the drainage from, across the little creek bottom from where we saw them. And I get there right at gray light and it's like, nah, no elk in this. They must be off the backside. And so then I turned my spotter across the big canyon, looking across into this other spot that you, you would like. It was a, it was one of your favorite areas on the map.

It was plan B.

And right at 7 o', clock, I pick up elk on the sky or not really a skyline, but like on a ridgeline. And I was like, oh, sweet. Got gotta play. And then I'm sitting there watching them and I'm wanting to make sure that they're gonna go like stay put basically so because it's gonna be a little bit of a journey to get there. And then I also got on the satellite text and like texted you. I think by the time I was like, okay, I'm going over there. You were just got to the meet.

Yeah, yeah. When you sent me that pin, it was like 4.9 or 5 something miles away. I was like, oh boy.

Yeah. So basically I waited until it kind of got sunny enough that I figured they're either gonna bet on the north slope or they're gonna stay right in that pocket. I thought they're gonna stay in that pocket. And I, I mark it out and like, okay, I got like a two mile hike to get over there. So I drop down the side that I'm on, cross the creek, get up and in there. And it's about, from the, from the very bottom of the valley. It's 1200 foot climb. So it's taken like it took me a little while. It took me an hour and a half to get up there. And before I went over there, I like marked it out on Onx, like can I shoot from this cross ridge or do I need to get on the same one? But. And as I'm coming up, I am noticing like the wind is kind of like blowing towards them and I'm like having this mental battle, like, are they gonna still be there? Like I could really be screwing this up. And as I'm like getting close to the ridge where I want to take a shot, I like hear a bugle and I go, oh, like they're, they're up, like they're moving so probably unnecessarily. So once I heard that bugle and knew they were moving around, I like started moving quicker. And I peek up and I see them and they're like right at that 500 yard mark. And I lay down and I get. He's like standing up by himself. And then the cows are all like bunched up and they're kind of moving off and like over to the other side of the ridge from where I obviously couldn't shoot. And I'm like, okay, time to make, like, time to make it happen before they like disappear over the ridge. And so after we replayed it though, like on the ground, I probably had way more time than I thought.

Yeah, you definitely did.

Anyway, he's turned, he turned quartered away. I torch off a shot. It looked like a good hit. And then he turns around the other way and he's kind of facing me quarter towards. I shoot him again. And then he. I'm like, oh, that's also a good hit. And then he like does that thing where he like starts getting wobbly legged and kind of like moving around and I shoot again. And right at that time is when he started tipping over backwards. So that one just missed in front of him because he was tipping over backwards. And then that dang thing did like cartwheels down the rocky cliffs that he was in. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no. And so finally he get gets caught on like this burned log. And I'm like, okay, he's not going to the bottom. That's. I was kind of hoping he would go to the bottom until I like crested over a little further. And because I thought I was just gonna take that contour line around just like you normally would. I come over to the ridge further so I can see the bottom and it's just cliffed out. It's just cliffed all the way around. And I was like, oh, that's not good.

Yeah, it was super cliffy in there. I can't believe where those elk were.

Gosh, they were.

I mean, to say it's sheep country, I think is an understatement. They were clear up by the cliffs and in, like there was cliffs below and above, like all around, like, just very cliffy.

Yeah, I've got some video of him like before I went on the stock of him literally standing on a boulder. And it just looks like he's standing in the middle of the cliffs like a mountain Goat. It's pretty crazy, but, yeah, got it done.

Yeah, we pretty much. I guess second I got back, I get the bull down, tax. And I was like, all right, guess we'll take the llamas that way. So we went up there and got your bull worked up, and, I don't know, wasn't a terrible pack out. We. I did get up there, and, you know, you had kind of had it boned out or whatever, and.

Well, I was able to do one half, like, the half that he left exposed for me. And then I tied up his antlers, and I tied up his back leg, and I was. I tried to roll him over to do the second half, and when I did that, like, the line holding his head snapped, and he, like, skittered down a little further. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, if he goes into those cliffs, like, that is the bad day. Very bad day. And so then I just was like, I'm just gonna wait for Cody. So I shuttled a couple. Like, the first half, I shuttled it up to the ridge so that we could just pack straight downhill.

But then we. We got the bright idea that we're gonna one trip. Well, not one trip completely, but it was up there a ways. And then once we kind of got it to the saddle, it was like, okay, it's all downhill in a burn. I mean, it's steep, but not undoable.

Yeah.

By the time we had the whole thing boned out, it was like, all right, if we just carry these 50, 60 pounds at next loads, like, let's just see how far we could take them. Oh, we ended up taking them down.

Almost all the way to the bottom.

Yeah. Probably 800ft.

Yeah.

So which is good, because it only took us an hour to run back up and grab them.

Yeah, that was good, dude. It was. We missed an important part. The While I'm working this bowl up, you're hiking up the canyon. I'm, like, getting tenderloins off the. Off the first site. So I'm, like, almost done with the first side, and I hear, like, rumbling, and I'm like, oh. Oh, yeah, here it comes. And then here pretty quick. I see, like, a flash and, like, boom.

You know, like, it was more than boom.

It was like.

So I'm in the bottom, coming up this crick bottom, and I like, there's no service or, like, just in reach or sat texting, and it's just like, I kind of don't. All I have is a pen. And last message from Jaden was like, go to this pen. It's a little bit off, but close enough. And I was like, hey, update.

Hey, update.

Hey, update. Nothing. And I'm, like, hiking up the bottom and, like, the whole, like, your whole world lights up. Like, it was like this blink of light, and instantly this crazy loud crack. And, like, you're in a box canyon. It was like, there is nowhere to go, man. You know, after the whole Colorado boys thing, it was like, dude, it was.

Right in the front of my mind, and I was, like, looking around, like, as I was working on this bowl and the lightning is of kind going off, and I was looking around, like, where can I go for safety? And I was like, I'm basically in the spot. Like, I can't go any lower. It cliffs out. Yeah. Like, okay, I'll just kind of put my head down to keep working.

Yeah, I just kept going up, and I'm like, I'm in the bottom. I'm probably good. Like, you know, if it's. It's my time, it's my time. There wasn't much I could do about it.

Yeah.

Just starts pouring rain, though. So it was. It was pretty brutal. And I texted you. I was like, are you alive? And I was like, well, he's not texting me back either way, so I guess I'll figure out when I get up there.

Yeah, dude. And right about that time is when I. Like, I said, I was. I was done with the half, and I was, like, ready to take quarters up. And I actually waited to take quarters up until it started just downpouring, because I knew I was like, okay, once the rain starts, like, the lightning will be less. I didn't want to be on that.

Ridge that first crack, you know, it's crazy because, like, usually it comes closer and closer. That first one, it was, like, right on top of us.

Yeah.

And then, like, slowly, the next three kind of got farther and farther away.

Yeah. There was one there, though, that, like, as I'm. I vividly remember, like, as I'm pulling on the Tenderloin and I see the flash and hear the boom at the same time, and I'm just like, oh, my God, that's tight. And then I was kind of prepared for it because I didn't jump, you know, Like, I could think of would be, like, jumping and cutting my finger off or some. Anyway, that was, like, the third one.

Like, you know, I'm, like, looking down. All of a sudden, everything lights up. And I was like. It was like the one second pause. It was like, wham. And I Was like, man, that's crazy.

Yeah, I was. And it probably was made louder just because everything was like, canyoned in and you're just like, in the rocks. Yeah. But still, it was. That was one of the spicier thunderstorms that I think I've ever been in. That was not very fun. It didn't last very long, though. So that was good.

Yeah.

And then the sun came out. We got a rainbow. Yep.

Got good photos. So, yeah, I mean, basically just hauled that thing down and like you said, dude, I'm so glad what we ended up doing with hauling those bags in our hand absolutely sucked. Like, I did not enjoy that. That was not enjoyable.

Armor carry a quarter of an elk.

Yeah. But then like we said, like, taking an extra hour to make that last mile lap.

Yep.

Way worth it. Yep. Especially considering this morning we just woke up to, like, soupy mess.

Oh, God. Yeah. It stormed last night, too.

Yeah.

So got it done. Killed on day one and day three.

Pretty dang good if you ask me.

Not bad. Not bad. Good bulls, too.

Yeah. Yeah. Sweet bowls. Not my best rifle bull, for sure.

I think my baby.

Yours too.

I think it's all around base. Yeah.

So made pretty quick work of it. One thing you made. You made a comment of earlier was like, I don't feel like we got to learn that country. Like, we didn't. That was spend that much time.

That was my one comment. It was like, I don't know if this is, like, this is going to sound cheesy, but I hate being right where it's like. Like we escouted and we killed in. We killed a bull in plan A and then we killed the bull in plan B and I didn't get it. Like, search, you know, like. Yeah. Figure stuff out. So I was kind of bummed. I mean, I felt like we. We spent more time packing meat than we did hunting. For sure.

I texted a buddy, like, earlier. And it took you two hours to kill your bull from shooting light. And it took me three hours from shooting light to kill my bull.

Yeah.

So we hunted for five hours and then we spent the, you know, of 72 hours. We hunted five and then spent the rest packing. Yeah. Like, yeah.

So I mean, like, is what it is. I definitely want to go back and explore because there was like, honestly, like, plan A and plan B were good, but there were some other places I really wanted to check out.

Yeah.

And, yeah, it didn't get too much.

Fun, especially for, like, next level bulls. Like, where I, like, my hunt was much more of like a 201 hunt. And your hunt was a lot more like the 301 hunt, where you're going, like, the extra mile, and then you go the extra mile again.

It was kind. I mean, it was kind of 301, but maybe even a little bit of luck on 201, because it's like. It's not like we had to comb through a bunch of areas. Like, to me, 301 was like, if we had to go through all of the areas, comb through all the canyons. To me, that's like 301s, where you're like, okay, we're gonna search this canyon. We're gonna search this canyon. We're gonna search this canyon.

That's true.

And it's like 201 was like, you know, yours was kind of like 201A or whatever, where it's like, yeah, we killed the bull in a good spot. You know, like, took some knowledge to know where the good spot is. But at the end of the day, like, we were just looking for, you know, your best bull, like, a good six. Right where I. I hate to call mine 301 because it's not like I combed through second bull I saw, but, like, dang near the first bull that we came counter. So I'm like, I don't hate to call it 301.

And that's the one difference is kill one. Yeah. There's luck that you saw first, but we saw 86 points up there from the top. So it was like a 1 and 8 bull that you killed, you know? Yeah.

Like, yeah, we saw 6 Herz on Scout day.

So, like, it just so happened, like. Yeah. Like, it was one of the first ones you saw. Yeah. No. Sweet, man.

What would you do different?

You know, I. I like that there's a lot of things that conspired to have it play out the way it did. If we had, like, five days in a row coming up of nice weather, maybe I'd have been inspired to keep looking around and digging around.

Yeah.

But with the weather coming in, I didn't feel that way. So it's more like, yeah, maybe. Maybe you would have spent more time. Like, that's probably the only thing I wish we'd have done.

Yeah.

And I think because that whole second day that we were packing your elk out, like, it's just packing meat. It's not like you're actually looking around. Right.

Right.

Doing stuff.

Yeah. I mean, if the only thing I.

Gotta change is I get to glass.

More, but I mean, also beggars won't be choosers. Like, good bowl shows himself on day one. Like, yeah, it's over. Sorry about your luck.

These are first world problems for sure.

Yeah.

So other than that, I just want to comb through, see what we can see. And it's always hard because, like, you see that. I mean, from my perspective, and this is going to sound like first world problems was like, first bowl you see is a great bowl. You're like, what else is there? You know?

Yeah.

Not to say grass is always greener, but it's like, you really want to, like, look around a little bit. But with that bowl, just crazy rut behavior. All the things, like, in a burn, like, just like, oh, dude. All the cool things.

So it was sweet. One thing that we were talking about, though, okay, so we ran into this guy from Wisconsin.

Oh, Wisconsin.

Yeah. He walked by us. Yeah, he might be. So we mean nothing. We mean nothing negative about this guy. He was great. Nice. Nice dude. Fun to talk to. But we're hanging the meet up at, like, 3.5 miles from the truck.

3.2.

3.2. And he walks up to this river valley and is like, kind of like, are there any elk around?

Well, I. I'll give. I'll give. Homeboy, he put in 12 miles the day before.

Yeah.

Didn't see an elk. And I think the inherent problem, you know, Jaden and I talked a lot about this just because, like, this is what we do. We talk to people who want to.

Come out and do the.

Do the hunt. Right. And I. I think it's like, generally speaking, you think you're in this place that is wild, beautiful, and, you know, remote. And homeboy is up on the hill looking down in valleys, thinking that, like, elk are going to come out in valleys, like they're whitetail. And when we explained to him that, like, no, all the elk are in the upper quarter of these peaks, you know, like, they stay away because, like, all the trails are in the bottom.

Right.

Which makes more sense. And so it was. I. I think it was kind of a little bit of like a shell shock to him. But at the same time, it's like, man, it's. You know, you think you're in a place. You know, you're in remote Wyoming. Right. Like, you would think that, like, oh, I'll come into meadows. It's like, no, no, they, like, live in the cliffs with the sheep and the goats.

Yeah.

Which I. I don't know. Like, I don't feel like that's common knowledge.

It might not be Common knowledge, man. But it's also probably because most people, if they stumble into one herd in the bottom, they'll be like, oh, sweet, they're in the bottom. Even though, like, let's say we looked at eight elk herds, none of them were below 9,500ft.

Why do. This is a Wyoming question. But, like, why do elk live on the moon? Because, like, so many of these elk were freaking. Like, we'd saw one herd, I mean, another, I don't know, five, six miles in, way up there. I don't even know what the elevation was on the moon. There's nothing there that tells me elk country.

Like, I've heard people talk about this in Colorado, too. Like, the big alpine open slopes. And I wonder if it's because they can use their eyes kind of like almost pronghorn do. That's my only guess. When you have that much open country to work with, they can kind of be safe.

Or like, grizzlies own the valleys, so they just stay out of the valleys.

That would make a lot of sense to me. Yeah.

And wolves. Like, it just seems like valleys are the travel corridor, whether it's humans, bears. Like, it's like that's where they go. So the elk are like, oh, we'll just stick to the tops.

Yeah. I mean, if you think about, like, the places we found them, whether it's like in this crazy cliffy pocket or it's at the freaking top on this open slope.

Right.

Like, it's all the places that'd be hard to get them killed if you didn't have a lock. Rifle.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, that's the only thing I can figure, which I think most people don't. I think they just think of elk.

They.

And they. Look at these beautiful.

I.

They are. They're beautiful valleys that, like meadows where, you know, I think it's a little bit of, like, too much National Geographic.

Right.

Like, you look at, I don't know, Jackson Hole or something, that's where you imagine all the elk being. But you're like, ah, in the real world, they are where you can't get to.

Well, and like the inverse of that, like, the other place that you would find elk in a rifle season is like, right on the edge of private.

Right, Right.

Like in the bottom, on the edge of private. So I. I think that that's like, the safety aspect is probably the main, like, theme there.

Yeah.

Because I know. Yeah. That's. That's the only thing I could think of would be.

Yeah. I think I've Been quoted saying, elk like to f on flat ground. Wyoming, elk do not.

They do not.

They're more like the stairs people, I guess. I don't know. There's.

It is some weird stuff.

Yeah. Especially like late September, early October elk, maybe. Maybe if they're not getting as much pressure. Yeah. By that time, but, like, we'd seen signs of people archery hunting in the spot that we ended up camping. So, yeah, there's a good chance that they've gotten bumped around, boogered up a little bit.

And again, I think it's like, you know, like, classic. Don't hunt. Don't hunt where you think elk should be. Hunt where they are. Which is to say, like, hunt, hunt the anti people. And like, I get like all these questions or like, whatever about e Scouting and all these things is like, I'm more. I'm not worried about what elk feed is. I'm not worried about, like, all those things. It's like if. And to be honest, like, even your bowl, like, not that far from the truck, like, it did. Like, you didn't have to be super remote. But, you know, how do you get away from people? And so, like, you look at all these things and, like, you look at Wyoming and you go. And it's like, okay, everyone just rides their horse in day, you know, day hunts. And it's like, well, what's that mean? That means there's a lot of pressure in the valleys. How do you get away from valleys? How do you get away from anything anyone could see from a valley? And once you do that, like, there's plenty of elk. If you get away from what you can see in the valley, you get away. You find elk every time we did that.

Yeah.

Yep.

And I think it's consistent no matter the state, too. Like, it just, you know, obviously, if you're in a place where there's not as many elk in general, like, it's going to be tougher. You're gonna have to look over more of those spots. But that seems to be like. Yeah, that's constant. Doesn't matter where you're at. I know, like, a lot of people in Colorado, second third season, over the counter, they're finding, like, a friend of mine killed a bull that was.

There's a moose out your window laying in a wheat field.

Oh, that's weird. You don't see that every day anyway. No, a friend of mine killed like a third season over the counter, like a nice bull that was basically like 600 yards above a road, the main road that everyone Is driving.

Oh, I think that's the best.

Because you can't. Yeah, because. Because you can't see it.

Right? Like, what you can't see. And I, like. I did this on an Onyx webinar recently, but I do think that, like, the inverse of View Shed. So they created View Shed Train X so you could, like, oh, from this glassing point, what can you see? And I started using it the opposite of everyone, which is like, I'm gonna run the trail and see what you can't see.

Oh, I like that.

And I got this. Like, this all stems from hunting Roosevelt in Oregon because I learned that, like, everyone drives logging roads and everyone bugles, and everyone bugles into canyons. So, like, you would drive these canyon walls and you're like, oh, this would be a great bugle spot. Everyone thought that. So everyone bugles in that canyon, and therefore everyone hunts that canyon if an elk is in there. And. And so then if you think about it, like, okay, where can people not see? And so you would, you know, look at the maps or onax or whatever, and you're like, oh, this road right here, if you just hiked over that little knob, there's an entire canyon right there that nobody's bugling into because they can't see into it. And humans are, like, super predictable, right? Like, you look at something like, oh, that looks really good, and they'll go hunt it. And then that happens for, like, 20 years and nothing's there.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Or the age class isn't what you're looking for. Like, either way, like, depends on the quality attack, but for sure.

So it's like, oh, if you can.

See it, it's probably not out there.

Which is not always true.

That is a nugget, though. The inverse of the view Shed. That is a. That is a nugget of intel right there.

And it's like, you know, these hanging high basins.

It's like if you, you know, work your way up the canyon, like, what can you not see? Like, where my bull was. There's nowhere to class in pro.

No, not unless you're like 600 yards away.

Right.

Essentially.

And that's why he was there.

Yeah. And that, like, goes back to that thing, like, unfortunately or fortunately, I guess, because you know how to use the pressure to your advantage. Just getting deep into the back country doesn't mean that you're going to be away from people.

No, we had lots of pressure.

Yeah.

Well, in fact, we had more pressure deep than we did shallow.

Yeah. I didn't see a single person when I was on my hunt, but we saw a bunch of dudes when we were back eight miles back on yours.

Yeah.

So there is something to that, I think. Okay, cool, man. I'm excited we got to do this hunt. Thanks for letting me do it with you.

Yeah. I mean, we podcasted together for, like, 10 years, and then we finally went on on together.

I got a feeling this won't be the last one.

I don't think so. All right, man.

Cool. That's the pod. Thank you for the listening to the Hunt west podcast. If you like what you heard today, the best compliment you can give is to share the show with a friend. We will see you on the next episode, and we hope one day to see you Hunt West.