Late-Season Archery Elk Hunts with Travis Bivins

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Guys, thanks for tuning in to the show. If you like this episode, do us a huge favor and share it with one of your hunting buddies. Also, if you want a free hunt planner, be sure to go check the link in the show notes. It's 100% free. You can download our hunt planning tool which is a great resource for kind of keeping track of all of your hunts, your hunt plans, your points, all those things. Pretty great resource. Go check it out links in the show notes or you can check our website www.elkhunt201.com. All right guys, welcome to the Elk Hunt podcast. Welcome to 2025. It's going to be good year. We got a lot planned, more coming. Some really cool stuff coming this year. So excited about that. Recorded some really good episodes already this year so need to start dropping those. Also want to do the giveaway announcement from last week who still hasn't responded to his email. You guys are terrible at your emails. Come on, I'm picking winners. You're not listening. So I'm just going to start doing it on the podcast because apparently you.

Guys don't check your email.

But so last month we did the Wild Meat Gear giveaway. It's the walk in cooler. It's really cool product. I'm stoked about this product.

It's cool.

Basically if you guys have ever wanted your own walk in cooler but you don't want to build it in your own shop, take up that square footage. Wild Meat Gear came up with a really intuitive or creative solution to that they've built like I, I would. It's like a basically a pop up popup ice fishing tent. But it's like heavily insulated as a cooler and it's got a cool built out for your AC unit so you can like plug an AC unit into it usually cool bot and you have like a portable walk in cooler which is awesome. Super cool. Anyway, Robbie Ubin, I think, I hope I say your name right. Robbie Ubin is the winner of the December giveaway. Check your email, bro. You still haven't got back to me so if not I'm gonna have to go to the next person. So if your buddies with Robbie, you better text him and tell him that he won and to get a hold of me. But anyway, thanks to you guys for everything in 2024. It was an awesome year. We put out a ton of great content and this podcast is growing like crazy. We, I was just running the numbers over the end of the year and we did almost just shy of a hundred thousand downloads in 2024, so hoping to crush that in 25. Maybe we could break 200, who knows? I don't know. So excited, excited for the year. I also want to kind of say if you guys have ideas for content or stuff you want to hear me or guests talk about or me and Jaden talk about those type of things, let us know. I we were kicking around this idea and actually started a long time ago, but never got to it of doing like a case study. Dr. Kahn was on I don't know, month ago, 99 a couple weeks ago.

And him and I talked about this. He's like, I would love to hear.

More case study type elk hunting content. And I was like, yeah, absolutely.

I love it.

So thinking about doing, doing that if you are interested and you're a listener and you're like, hey, I got a great case study. We're trying to put together that format. So either shoot me a DM on Instagram or just shoot me an email. Codyrichoutdoors.net and yeah, I'd love to like kick around this idea of having more of you guys on, more guests doing case study type podcast and breaking down some experiences and stuff that happened to you guys. Some of my best insights have come from talking to listeners of the podcast. That's where, you know, it's easy for me who's been doing this my entire life, the way I see things and I have my ideas. So when I talk to experts, you know, I have my questions for sure. But you guys have different questions, you're at a different phase or you know, maybe I just stuff I didn't think of. So love to hear your guys feedback. If you're interested in doing a case study podcast with this, hit me up and we'll kind of create a format and if there's other topics as well, let me know. All right, Enjoy this episode. My good buddy Travis Bivens. I don't know how he's never been on the podcast before, but we were down on a late Utah hunt this year and pretty interesting. So I'll leave it at that. I'll let you get. We'll kind of break down that whole late archery elk hunt down in Utah that I know many people are probably interested in. So enjoy the episode.

We're doing a podcast and negotiating a snowmobile deal. I feel like that's a shady for a 93 phaser, this is like, yeah.

Not often does a seller drop the price.

Yeah, right. Yeah, whenever that happens, you should be suspect at best. It's so funny. Well, site total sidebar. Buying stuff on Facebook is like the biggest joke. I feel like it's worse than Craigslist was. Like, Craigslist got bad for a while. But dude, Facebook, you might need to go a little bit closer.

It's just that. Is it available? Yes. And nothing else. Dude, that's my favorite. That is actually second to you post a snowmobile for sale and they ask if you want a 93 grinder meat grinder. Like, no, no, actually, I don't. Yeah, not interested.

Yeah, dude, anything you post for sale, it's like, would you trade?

Yeah, no. No trades.

I don't know if that ever works.

I always just respond and say, yeah, I'll trade for cash.

All right, so you just got off a late season archery Utah hunt. And I want to talk about this because it's something I've been putting in. I. I suckered you into doing it first so I could see how it was. But I think, you know, ever since those popped up, they've kind of been of interest because, you know, for me, we talked about this.

How many points do I have?

10, something like that. 9 or 10?

Yeah, 8 or 9.

I think it was 8 or 9.

Yeah.

I think this year I'm going in 9. I'm never gonna draw like a decent tag anyway. And so, like, when those ones came up, you're like, okay, I could go do that. Like, and I would say a chance at a solid bull, right? Like, so the risk is like, you're probably only gonna draw Utah one time in your life. You know, like, you want to burn it on that or, you know, you want to wait. And for me, I'll just say, like, for me, I don't really care about the September thing because, like, I have enough other hunts in September. I could always hunt Montana. I can always do other thing. And I think for some people, they're like, no way. Like, I'm only going to get a hunt premium September hunts so many times in my life. So I think it makes sense. But we're going to talk a little bit about the pros and cons. So, like, what made you want to try the late season archery?

Yeah, I think a couple things. One, like you said, right, my September a Montana resident. I feel like that tag is. It's not going to be like the top, you know, 20 point draw tags at all, but I actually disagree. Yeah, I was gonna say, like, maybe I think you're top five, but. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, like, I have that right. So I'm. I Wasn't going into it. Of like I want like you said that premiere tag in September so I can hunt bugling bulls. I can get the fix that way.

Yeah.

The point creep thing. Right. So I was at seven points and I was like, I'm not gonna. I don't know, like, I feel like I'm not. I'm never gonna get like a rifle.

You could easily not get it.

Yeah, exactly. And so I had these points. It was a new opportunity, which I think people overlook. Yeah. And looking at the draws, I should have double checked. But off memory, it actually spiked up this year.

Yeah.

Because people dropped out.

Yeah.

Even from the first year. So I feel like people were just overlooking it. And it's. It was an awesome hunt. Like yeah, it there was for what it was. It was a good hunt. Especially for seven points. I mean now we'll see how I feel over the next seven years sitting on the sidelines. But I don't know, like, but you could easily strike.

Okay. So spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. Struck out. But I. So I went down with you. I ended up driving down with you. And then I end up going on the hunt for like one day. Cuz I had some meetings in, in Salt Lake, but I was like, dude, I've seen more elk in the first 10 minutes than I did 16 days in Arizona. Like just balls galore everywhere.

There was a couple times there's too many bulls. Was the issue of why didn't get a shot.

People really laugh at that.

Yeah.

Wasn't there like one group? It was like 32 bulls.

32 bulls.

32 bulls. You're trying to put a stock on.

I got. Yeah, I got into 100 yards on a nice six. He went over a little rise, started feeding over. And I was like, perfect. I can slip up, come over that range, him go back over, draw, come over. Little did I know that was bull number six in the group. And later that night 32 of them were out there. So like just kept feeding out and out and out.

I mean you were putting stocks on every day.

We.

We'll get into like the kind of story, the tactics, what worked, what didn't work. But like you had kind of said, I think I would do it again for me, I'm still probably going to do it. I don't know if I'd go to that unit. I really, really want to see when the new stats come out for last year. Because even looking so first year was 2022 of that hunt. Right.

23. This was year two of 2023.

Okay. Yeah, you're right. I'm. I'm a year off, so. 20, 23. So we had like one year of data for harvest rates and things like that. There were. I think there's some like reason to go the first year because like, maybe you'll get like a crazy good one. I already had an Arizona tag that year, so I didn't do it. And then what I have. I don't remember.

Well, you ended up.

No, I put in.

I didn't draw. I think I put in for the harder one. I don't remember why I didn't do it. 24. Yeah, I remember. Anyway, point being was like now it's like once I. If I'm not going to hit like the first year and get the best unit for low points, I'm like, let's see where success rates lie. And I'd be really curious to see how they kind of between the top five units, how the success rates look and also in comparison to September success rates. Right. So if you take like Manti versus San Juan versus, I don't know, like whatever those units, like I would, I want to see their successes in the late season verse, you know, the, the earlier season. I'd be curious how they turn out.

Yeah. Off the top of my head, I'd almost argue like pretty similar.

Oh really?

Like it was a hard hunt. But I. I guess it depends, right? Like it depends on someone like you going in me or someone just to kill a bull. Right. Like I could have killed. I was a little bit picky. I wasn't. I wasn't. I mean, I saw your caliber bull like Megas, but they were few and far between. So it's like it. I got into a hundred a handful of times.

Like, if you had the Manti tag in September, what would you hold out for? Would it would have changed or would you still be like, because you went into this tag, like, man, 320 is for sure going down. Yeah, like 300. Like I'd be stoked to kill 300.

Yeah. I would say September. It's hard. Right. That was at the end of the season. So I'd already hunted. Right. Whereas September, you're like, maybe I hold out because I still have, you know, whatever your October through November rest of season is. But I feel like a Manti, I've hunted that in 2020 with a buddy and mean, we saw 350s pretty regularly. Yeah. I don't. We had on trail camera some megas, maybe 370s, but I don't remember seeing them with in September, like during season. But yeah, I mean we saw a handful of 350s that week too.

Yeah, I mean honestly, like I'd be stoked to shoot anything over 350 if I, if I didn't have a chance at that, I don't know that I would go. And, and so like that was kind of my big question with those lates is like, are you really going to have. And you know, you talked to Travis and Watney who did the late archery and you know, just watching his stuff too, you know he had, he saw some big bulls. Definitely had a lot of opportunities. He was pretty sick the whole time, but that's the only other person I know that did it. And so like, honestly, it's kind of weird you haven't seen anybody really posting anything about it.

Well, there was only seven tags and only one non resident. That's crazy. At least for a couple of the units. I haven't looked at all of the units, but I think one. Some of the units are even only five tags too.

Yeah.

So I mean it's not. But I don't think a lot of people put in for it. That's.

I mean it's a huge risk. It is and I see why people don't.

We'll see what the harvest rate was this year. Last year was really high.

What do you think was different?

I don't know. Look, I looked at the like the weather was all the same. We actually got snow earlier this year than last year. But during the season last year we, it like evened out the amount of snow. We got snow earlier this year and then it dried out for a while which was actually hit or miss on conditions of stalking. But yeah, I don't know. I would be curious. I mean I, I didn't run into any other hunter. I saw one person carrying a bow which it. The only other season going on was late season cow with rifle which I saw a ton of them and wouldn't leave their trucks.

Oh really?

Oh, I would tell them like, yeah, there's cows right here. And they're like, ah, we're hoping for something down low.

All right.

But I saw one person waiting for.

One to get in the truck.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Put their seatbelt on for them too. But I never ran into him. I never got a chance. I tried and it just didn't work out.

Interesting.

Just in a bump path directly.

So you'd say you, you'd do it.

Again for seven points. I think it's 100% worth so that. Yeah. If you can get in that low.

You can do it. I mean, if you can do it every. Yeah. Seven years. If you can do it every seven years. I mean it's not once in a lifetime. It's. I mean you're talking 15, 16 to draw an AR tag.

And like it's a physically demanding hunt, mentally demanding hunt.

Right.

And I mean you can. I probably didn't help myself pretty much being solo for 10, 11 days in December when it's 12 hours of darkness.

Yeah.

But I like, to me it was an awesome hunt. Like there was, it was almost. I equate it to like archery Antelope. Right. Where you're like, yeah, I'll go blow this stock because I don't care because I'm gonna find another. It's a target rich environment. I will say I liked about it.

I will say I'd be curious your thoughts on this. But you know, we always talk about at bats for at bats. Like, I mean, it's not true elk behavior, but in a lot of ways it's still at bats. I mean you're still kind of getting close. It's just, it's very different in that you're stalking a group of bulls. Like you're kind of late, late season behavior. Everything's different. And it's very, you know, just snow. Everything that's hard is for a different reason than it would be in September. But still at bats. Right. Like stalking experience.

So I think it was 10 hunting days. I would say seven or eight of those. I had stocks. Yeah. Like maybe two days. I can think of one in particular off the top of my head where I just kind of guessed wrong because it was such massive mountains. That's the big thing where you're not able to like, okay, I think they're gonna feed right. And then they end up feeding left. But you already committed your huge stock. Like a 1500-2000 foot stock. Yeah, Avert.

Yeah.

And like it's such crunchy, loud snow. You're not really going to be able to catch up to them super easy. And then they're not on their feet midday at all. So it's, it's hard. But yeah, I mean it's, it was, I don't know, it's almost easier. Why I say I would be curious other people's thoughts in terms of the September versus late season because you don't have the lead cows. To me, like lead cows are so smart. These bulls are so dumb. Like half the time you have the, the little Dinks that are just wandering around. Like, there are so many times I would bump dinks getting into the bigger bulls, and they would just run back to the bigger bulls. The bigger bulls would look at them, look around for a minute, and then just start feeding.

Oh, wow.

I'm like, okay. Like, if they. If these were cows, these things are gone.

Yeah, yeah.

Or times, like, I'm like, okay, yep, this is over. Wind just hit me in the back, and they're still there. I'm like, all right.

Well, have you. So you lived in Park City? Outside of Park City. Did you ever do the extended late hunt?

Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, really? So how is that different other than, like, one elk versus hundreds of elk?

Yeah, I would say the amount of elk, for sure is different. The late season, the extended arch.

Yeah.

I mean, biggest thing is the population. Right. Like that. I pretty sure. Don't quote me on it, but I'm pretty sure that area is, like, one of the biggest, most density in the state, so that helps. Whereas the extended. If you knew where to go, like, after my first year, like, I don't even know if I probably saw an elk.

Right.

Let alone bulls. And then I started figuring it out, and, I mean, I was in bulls. I could get into bulls every single morning from my house on that hunt. Like, once you figure it out. Now, granted, they're not massive.

Yeah.

But they're bulls. They're. I mean, if. Obviously you still have your tag.

I mean, they still kill some good bulls in there.

Oh, yeah. There's giants that come out of there. But that's a harder hunt because that's actually more. The terrain's different. Right. Like, you have a lot more snow. Oh, so you're dealing. Like, where I was south facing for the most part. I mean, we got some squalls coming through, but for the most part, you're bare ground because of where. And even that was super high elevation.

Right.

But it's just. They're not in that band of snow coming through. And, like, the Wasatch has. So the Wasatch gets snow quick and. Yeah, that's what makes it hard.

And it's deep snow.

Right.

But it almost sounds easy. Like, in some ways, it almost is easier because that crunchy, hard. Like, when it snow, when there's just a little bit of snow, it's crunchy, hard, can't get. If you got a foot of powder, you're silent.

And that's the trick. Right. It's almost like our rifle.

Yeah.

Where it's almost worth not even hunting.

Right.

Until you get that storm and then you hunt down during, like right after that where it's super quiet. Yeah. Like you could almost walk up and pet them. Because in terms of quiet, obviously not. But just in terms of noise. Yeah.

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So did you think about that? I mean, obviously it's not a hunt. You can just say, I'm gonna go the second half. Like, you know, Arizona is a whole month. So you kind of like plan your trip around that. That one. Did you think about that at all or like, is it just like. Ah, depends on what the weather, what happens.

Yeah, it's a two week long and it started right after Thanksgiving. It was more of a family thing because I kind of burned up a lot of my brownie points during season.

So anyone who says I hunt a lot, like, you freaking hunted so much this year.

I know. Yeah, I did and probably shouldn't have.

With a newborn and still had three bull tags and put a ton of time into all of them.

My wife's a saint. She doesn't think I am at this point. But we'll make up for it for next year.

Lots of time to chalk up some brownie points.

Exactly.

So, I mean. Okay, so what advice? Like, lessons learned advice, like, how would you do it differently? I think the first thing is a team. That's like instant. When I was down there, I was like, oh, this is why all these Arizona guys. And I learned this in Arizona last year, which is like when you're solo, it's so hard. Like you just. You can only see so much. You need a team.

Yeah. I think that that is probably the biggest detriment to my hunt was not having someone to help and not even. Well, even just like your mental game. Right. Like you're just sitting in the, like it. I don't know, it's just long nights, not talking with anyone. Like. Yeah, so that. There's that little part. But the biggest thing is just it's such big train. Like I was saying, average stock is probably 1500 to 2000ft in like 2 to 3 miles.

Yeah.

At most. Sometimes that was like 1 to 2 miles. So like steep. Not necessarily the miles. That's taking a while. It's just. It's super steep. The biggest thing. I got cliffed out. I couldn't even tell you how many times. I think actually the night you were there, it took me half like you started leaving because you thought I was going to a different spot.

Yeah, I thought you were going.

It was just. Yeah, you're getting cliffed out so it's in with that. I was pretty much down to one stock a day because you gotta find.

Them in the morning.

And that's what I did. I chose the nights as. Because they would get in on their feet at like 2 3pm and dark was like 5:30, like dark dark 5:30. So I had a few hours. Whereas in the morning it was hit or miss. Like they could be bedded up right at shooting light. And actually I've seen like some of the bigger bulls were or. And then some days it would be the dinks were on their in the bed at. At sun up. And then the big bulls stayed out in the wide open though, so they could see nothing's coming in. But yeah, I feel like you just had more. It was more consistent in the evening. So I ended up glassing all morning, finding as many bulls as I can. Because they're not going to go far, right. As soon as you see one you, they're there. That's where they are for the day. So I quickly pick them up, check them. Yep. Seen these bulls before. These are new bulls, whatever. Maybe I spend more time but just hit as many spots as possible, locating as many groups of bulls and then basically it was okay, what is the terrain where each bull is and what's the most successful look? Sometimes they would just bed in north facing terrace timber our faces. Not necessarily timber, but kind of like that oak brushy. Oak brush is super loud north facing. So there's a foot to two feet of crunchy snow. Like, nope, probably not gonna be successful or. And that was actually one that I didn't have getting close on and really I wasn't even close because I guessed they were gonna feed right. And they went left. Yeah, right. So I, I was so far away because there's so much.

How predictable were they?

Super. That was the only one that really was like.

So generally speaking if they bedded, did they go back to where they were? And so it was like, oh, this is where they came from.

Yes. And then it was like if they were feeding in you know, one spot in the morning and then they, you know, say they went to the right to normally is going into the northern facing, they're still getting out of the sun, bedded down and then they're coming right back there and feeding in the morning or in the night. So that. And for the most part there was a couple terrain features that pushed them different ways.

So how come you couldn't just get up in front of them, let them feed back out to you the Wind.

The wind was always just wind or no wind. Sometimes it was no wind at all. And it was dead quiet. Like there was a bull. He was like 800 yards from me. And I'm like, I had to cross this patch of snow. There's no other option. Yeah. A half mile away. And he's like, just pinned deadlocked on me. I'm like, oh, cool. And then another one similar thing. He was probably a half mile away on the other side of canyon. And I had a cross through stone. I wasn't even in sight. Completely out of sight. And it wasn't even a ton of snow. It was just oak brush scraping my pant legs and my backpack. And so like just trying to smash through the brush of just that and like it. So because there was no wind. Yeah. And wasn't there a couple days that.

Were super windy though?

Yeah.

Oh, there was a problem there. Did they. They burrow down?

No, I. Most if every time. That's actually I was like praying for wind.

Oh, really?

Oh, yeah. Because if it. I mean, there was one day, I think it was like 30 mile an hour sustained. That's a little disgusting. But yeah, I mean, I could walk right up to him. But also when it was windier, they're a lot more on edge. Like they were looking up. They weren't just head down, feeding as much.

She almost need just a little wind.

Yeah, that in between.

Yeah.

I mean, for all purposes. Yeah. Yeah.

For noise, for just settle them.

Yeah. But yeah, back to what I was saying is, so basically I had to choose one stock a day because I didn't have. If I chose to stock in the mornings. I don't know necessarily where those bulls were. Like, yes, they weren't moving. It seemed like at night they would move. During the day, they're not moving hardly at all. Like, I can't. Unless they were bumped by other humans myself or, you know, whatever reason, then they were there that night where they were the morning.

Yeah.

But even when I was with you, it's easy to see how they go over one fold. And it looks like you can just see everything, but they'll just go over one fold and it's like no idea where they are.

Yeah. Yep. So, yeah, that and that. I think if I was to do it again, it's a hundred percent. And I actually had. I mean, you went for a day just last minute. Super last minute. It was like that night. But I had two other buddies. They were like, hey, I'm gonna go. And then they just had things come Up. And before leading up to, I was like, oh, like, why? Why do you want to come? Like, what are you gonna do? Yeah, okay. Come on down. I'm more than happy. But why? Like, you're gonna leave your family? You're gonna, like, spend time on my hunt? Like, what? And now I'm like, damn it, I wish you guys.

Yeah.

Cuz just to like. I mean, like, what you did right. That night I was up on the mountain. I couldn't see you. You couldn't see me, but you were like, yep, I got bulls over here, bulls over there. And then I just look and I'm like, oh, there they are. I can see them a different angle. I can. Like, it's just. It's just locating while I'm stalking in on the other bulls. You were able to locate just for the next morning and know where things were. So. Yeah, I just think you could have gotten more at bats. Like, I could have been stalking one in the morning and one at night, right?

Well, even if not even that. But like, I think a lot of people bash on the, like, the team play thing, but I think some of those places, like where we were in Arizona, so mostly by myself, had some help a few days when I'm by myself, it was easy to. I mean, you're. You're seeing such tiny chunk of this. Like, imagine a. Imagine a canyon that kind of has three. Three forks, right? A trident canyon. You're only. You're seeing, like, pieces of it. And you could go days without that bull stepping out anywhere, and he could be there. But the whole time you're by yourself, you're like, okay, I'm gonna go over here. I'm gonna go over here. And then you're like, I don't know if he's here anymore, you know? And like, this goes on for five days, and then you catch a glimpse, and it's like, just so much nicer. Be like, oh, he's over here. He's over.

And.

And so I. I understand. Like, the guides and outfitters run big teams. If you want to find a needle in a haystack, like, good luck by yourself. Like, it could happen. But you really gotta choose your terrain wisely. And I think it's very easy. If you're gonna go by yourself, you have to really choose that. Choose a place you can see well, because some of these places where you're trying to find a needle in a haystack, you're just never gonna see it, you know? Cause, like, you just can't be looking at Everything.

And that the day I text you. Right. Because I saw two just absolute units right where I had to go to try to get eyes on them. I could not see any other bull where I was. And that was like, I don't know. Day four. Yeah. Not super late in the hunt, but not super early. So, like, I knew where most bulls were.

Yeah.

I couldn't get eyes on both. And so that played into. Okay, well, I need to just push this.

Yeah.

Whereas if someone could have checked on that. Whereas. And then I'm. Or even check on the other bulls, keep tabs on that and be like, hey, something's worth going up after. Or, this is a really killable spot. Yeah. While I'm looking for the giant.

And I think some of us come, like. And this is true for everything. And I think this is a little bit of the at bats that people don't understand is, like, getting this gut intuition of which ones are very killable, which ones are a waste of time. And, like, that's all at different levels. But, like, so much of it is that, like, of understanding, you know, like, I can look at something like, man, that's pretty low odds. Let's pass on that. Where someone who's super new is like, there's elk. Why don't we kill elk? Like, didn't we come to kill elk? And it's like, yeah, but you could spend three days, you know? And I learned this. You learn this quickly on the caribou hunt is on the hall road. You're like, there's caribou right there. I can see them from the road. Let's just walk. But it takes all day to get there. It's not that far away, but it's like, it's a. It's a journey, right? And you're like, man, we just killed a day of, like, going after those caribou. And like, in retrospect, we had no chance. You know, like, we were just kind of walking out. There was no terrain. Like, there was zero chance. And so, like, you have to get really smart about which caribou you go after and which ones you don't. And I think the same could be said for elk. Like, over the years, you'll learn. You'll look at some elk and be like, man, gosh, the wind is so screwy right there. And like, this happened to me. I remember hunting these elk for, like, four or five days, and, like, God, the wind would screw up every time, and they'd end up back in the same spot, you know? And so, like, it was very tempting to want to hunt them, but then eventually I'm like, this is dumb. You know, screw these elk. Let's go find different out. Because, like, I'm literally gonna waste my entire seven day trip here on these elk. And that's it. And so, like, it's just like the out bats teach you, which are like, very doable and which aren't. And I think that honestly really comes into play on those late season hunts of like, man, because it's such an effort.

Yeah.

You know, such an effort to go after.

And there's like, there was many bulls that I was like 100% immediately, like, nope, don't even waste time looking at them because of where they are. And that could have been snow, that could have been the brush, that could have been just the wind. The wind that day or just in general.

Yeah.

And then there's also times, though, like, some of it's trial and error. Right. Like, I feel like I'm. I'm no expert at that at all, but my gut is decent. I feel like at this point, and there was still times, many or two different groups of bulls that I'd stock in on. And all of a sudden that wind, like, it was hard right out of the west. Get over, and now all of a sudden it's like out of the east. Yeah. And the bulls are not in that scenario exactly. But just that idea of. It's just like, I would have bet $100, no way in hell that that wind is coming up at. On that hillside.

Yeah.

As the sun's going down, I'm like, wait, what? And I get over there and then they're running away. Right. So. And then I went there another night, and it's just, that's what it's doing in that terrain feature. So it's. Yeah. Like, some of it's trial and error, but. Yeah.

How much. How much would you. How much would you suggest? Or I don't know, like, lean on trying to watch elk to see what they do before you try to make those moves. Like, how predictable are they? Like, do you think it's one of those things, like, hypothetically, you go, guy gets his tag, you go down like, oh, there's elk. Let's go mess with them. Or is it better to be like, let's see what they do for a day or two? Which sounds crazy, but that's kind of how like a lot of times you guys can get this way with big bowls. And I, I think I get this way sometimes. Like, if it's A really big bowl. I'm like, I play it too cautious. And it's always like, you want to be able to play again tomorrow. Because you know, so many times when those big bowls are somewhere, it's like you know where they are. Don't screw that up because finding them is way harder. But at the same time, I really try not to put any elk on a pedestal. And like, you never know what's gonna happen. Sometimes you just go and you figure it out. Like walk up and kill them. It's super simple. Walk up to 60 yards and put an arrow through it. That's really. When you boil it down, it's all you gotta do. But I think there is some strategy and like, let's see what they do for like, let's let this play out a little bit. Like, did you do that at all? Did you. Would you recommend that? How did that work out?

Yeah, I did. I feel like I would recommend that. And a lot of it's a. My first thought is it depends, right. If it's late season, general. It depends on the time of the season, your weapon that you have. And, and obviously, obviously the terrain. Right. So. Right. Late season, they're going to be a little bit more predictable. But I, you know, I didn't want to bank on that. So for the first few days, especially as I found bulls and new areas I hadn't even been to, I sat back and just would watch throughout the day. And it even like let them get up and start feeding in the evening and then try and head them off. But the biggest thing for that hunt specifically, and I think terrain is the bigger thing of do you need to do that or not? Right. Because I'm wasting, I don't know, five hours minimum. I mean there were some spots where it would be an hour drive in the truck, a 30 minute snowmobile ride and then I'm on the ridge and start hiking.

Yeah.

And at one spot it was got to the ridge after the truck and snowmobile and it took me a two hour hike. It's like, that's a full on commitment. Yeah. To stock and that's just to like start getting in. Right. And then I had to relocate them and then stock in. So that's not just something where you see them and you're like, oh, let's go.

Yeah.

Because they could have moved. They could have, you know, they could have just. Maybe you got it wrong in terms of what ridge. Exactly. Because that terrain, even spending 10 days in there, there was still times at the end I'm like, wait, what ridge are they? Where are they? Exactly? So it's.

Well, this gets into. And this. Not necessarily this hunt, but maybe. Maybe this hunt too. This gets into why it's so important to go on that hunt before you go on that hunt. Right. Like, you'd learn. It's so classic to be like, if I could do that one again, I would crush it. Right? And there's a late hunt. I literally just think about this. There's a late hunt I want to do in Colorado, and I was like, gosh, I wonder if I should deer hunt it before. You know, just like, just to learn. Just learn it. Land, you know, how to get places. Like, there's just so much you learn on boots on the ground. I don't know. I thought about that too, with the Lehon, because I was like, man, maybe I should go spike on it just to learn more.

My only. I would typically 100 agree. The only hesitation in this specific area is because I, my buddy had the September tag and I didn't hit any spot. Like, I didn't even check those spots because I didn't have to. Right. Like, I got into tons of bulls without even going down my checklist of spot A through Z. Right?

Yeah. You were the rare exception where you got to spot A and you ended up never. Like, we had a lot of stuff picked out to go.

I mean, it was a huge spot A. But yeah, it was. I didn't have to leave it. But I don't know, some. Something in the back of my mind.

I was gonna say, does it eat at you to be like, oh, we should have checked that other spot?

Yes and no. Mostly no. Because my target bulls. No, I didn't have a target bull. My target bulls, like, what I would shoot.

Yeah.

Was there every single day. Yeah, like, multiple every single day. So I had no reason to actually. No.

The only reason, I would argue, like, just to play devil's advocate. Not that he needs one, but could there have been a better error? Like a more hauntable area, More killable? Yeah, more killable.

More favorable to the hunter.

I think where you were was pretty good. I thought about that. I remember leaving. I was like, man, I wonder if you should check this other spot. I was like, man, it seemed like where you were was a very archery, late season killable. Like, all had all the checkpoints. It's just like. And that's why I was like, man, I think you just gotta focus in on that one spot, which I think that's important too. And I learned that you know, when I was in Arizona and that was a rifle hunt. But it's like, once you figure it out, hone in. Like, it's so easy to be like, maybe we should go. Maybe we should look. Maybe we should do. And it's like, dude, once you're honed in, hone in every day.

I was like, oh, should I go check? You know, B, C, D. I had bulls embedded. And I'm like, oh, that's pretty killable. Here's my plan exactly.

Yeah.

And I know double check the wind, double check the terrain on Onx, double check everything. And I'm like, yeah. Like, there's nothing in my mind to, you know, produce that. The odds of success, so why not?

Right?

And so I never ended up leaving. But I, again, wasn't. I can think of two days where I wasn't within 200 yards of bulls. Yeah. At least once a day. So it was like.

And, you know, back to like, why you should. Why I want to do it. It's like, man, you get a. It's another archery elk hunt. Like, just kind of, if you get it, you get it. You get to go hunt late season. I like having late season tags.

Me too. I enjoy it. I was saying. I forget who I was talking to leading up to the hunt. I'm like, yeah, there's. There's hardly any other hunts going on. Like recreationists. It's kind of that weird. You're not getting a full winter recreationist yet. You're not getting, you know, obviously the fall recreations anymore. But also, like, who's dumb enough to go on an archery elk hunt in December? And then I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. Raise my hand. Like I'm an idiot. But also, like, it was a sweet hunt, man. I. I had a ton of fun. And that's like, I think I was texting you when I had bulls at 60 yards, and I was like, oh, should I shoot? Just messing around. But like, that. That was almost like, I knew I could have filled the tag. Yeah. But I chose not to. And it was like, that, to me, was good enough. Yeah. Like, that's. That's the success. That's what I wanted out of. That's all I could ask for in the hunt. It's. Give me an opportunity. And I. I think I counted four or five times, like, 90 or less, that I had bulls. Yeah. Granted, not huge bulls, but, I mean, there was one. I had a six at 90. He just never gave me a shot angle. And it wasn't. I mean, it was super Windy. It wasn't. I'm never going to shoot 90 in those conditions. Like, it's got to be absolutely perfect. I'm sitting there for a long time. And that's actually kind of something we hinted on, of like, you can get to that hundred, that eighty, that ninety a lot.

Right. Season, Right.

And it's. You always say, like, that 90 10.

Yeah.

Or the 99. 1.

Yeah.

And I jokingly. I don't know if I said it to you, but I was always like, oh, it's like a 75. 25. Like in these late. Because you get into such weird terrain that you can do 75 of that. But then, dude, if there's no wind, that last 25, right. Like, you have to get them. And that's what I was doing every day, every single morning is. I'm like, okay, they fed this way. What way are they gonna feed back? And majority of the time, it was back to where they were in the morning. But there were times that they kept feeding and that. And it wasn't even me pressuring them or anything. It just. That's the way they wanted to go. And so, like, that's why I jokingly was like, yeah, you gotta kind of have like, a little bit more luck. Yeah. Archery in the late season.

But I actually think it's really good practice because I. I honestly think most September hunters should think in a very similar way, like, of still trying to get in front of them. Still, like, trying to use those tactics instead of, like, I'll just go up there and call. Like, if you're only calling a small percentage of where they're going anyway, everything gets easier. And it could be done otherwise. But, like, if you just use that first principle of, like, I need to get in front of them and practicing that on the late season is, you know, you don't have the option to call. Right. So, like, it's just like, man, that kind of teaches you the right ways. I mean, a little bit. But, yeah, I think it. I mean, it's just at bats, it's. It's gonna be good.

Yeah.

Ultimately.

And that's a. A few people were like, oh, man, a December hunt, that's gonna be hard. They're not calling. I'm like, it's actually. It's actually. It was almost a. A. It made it easier in my mind because I didn't have that devil on the shoulder and the angel on the other shoulder saying, call, call. No, no, no, stay quiet. Call, call, call. No, stay quiet. I didn't even care right I, I think I had a cow read in my bino harness just for fun. But I don't know, like, I never even thought to bring it out. That's interest. Because also, like, it's, it's not like they're gonna be interested in the call. It'd be. I had it in there if I wanted to use it to stoppable.

Which is so funny because, like, you, when you look at it from that perspective and you say if I call, like, you're just going to bump them.

Right.

Most people should think that it's September.

100%. Yes. I mean, actually this year, that was my mentality. And I feel like I got into. Got closer into that red zone more often than not than previous years.

I would say by that tactic. And I would say, like, if you kind of keep. If you, if people, like, just had a light switch that said, I'm only allowed to call when I'm ready for the 10. So I'm already in position, the 90, 10. Like, if Elk are moving away from me, I shouldn't be calling now. Locating is a different whole different topic. But like, if you only called when you were in front of them to then it, you know, you're not trying to change their habits. Like, I think everything gets easier. Yeah. And you're like, oh. Like, oh, I just have to do the extra work to get in front. Which most people don't do.

Yeah. And I mean, it can be a lot harder in September. Like, not nearly as predictable.

Oh, yeah.

Terrain. Right. Like, where I was, I. I could see them. I knew where they're going, where they're coming, depending on the train. Right. It can be difficult to know exactly.

Hint, hint, wink, wink. You should do that in September. Now, Jefferson had this funny joke because he's been hunting, like, just stupid thick stuff. And he guided some out, we'll call it out east, more open terrain. And he's like, this is way easier.

Yeah, I can see, dude. I wasn't even at the glassing knob. First time that first night, I think I was there for 20 minutes and I text you, like, yeah, I'm done with hunting in Southwest. Yeah.

I mean, there's pros and cons, but, yeah, that's funny. I mean, at bats you and I had this conversation. Like, I feel like I'm 201. Because you're finding out, getting it out, killing, like, not, not, not having the luck fall the way. But it does feel like you've kind of graduated that level. What, what is kind of the turning point for you on that, like for give some context like how long you've been elk hunting and then like when do you feel like you kind of took that pivotal like 101 to 201 mentality? Is it a mindset shift?

Yeah, I think it is. Right. Like after you get the first kill, I feel like. And yeah. So to answer your question, I think it was 2018. It wasn't until I started I elk hunted for the first time. So I grew up not even hunting. All my friends hunted. I just was in sports. Didn't really have the father figure to like show me. And also sports was too much time. And then after college I got into just whitetail hunting and that was just super boring. And then my uncle, I finally came out during September to visit him because he's lived here all my life and just never came out in the fall. And dude, it was still one of the top rut fests I've ever been a part of.

Oh really?

And just dude, it like hooked inside. And ever since I went, I remember going back home and telling my now wife. It was a month before our wedding and I was like, hey, falls are going to be an issue. Her birthday's in September, we got married in October. Like it's still. I'm like fall is this problem for you? Like we have an issue on our hands. So anyways, yeah, I mean it was 2018, was the first year I had my fall first elk tag for myself. It was 2017 I think when I went with my uncle and just got hooked. Yeah. And then I didn't have any success in 2018 at all. I don't.

I barely find an elk.

Oh no, no, I found. See that was the thing, right? Like is it luck? Yeah, it has to be. Right. Because I didn't know what I was doing e scouting. Like I just, I actually feel like I had a buddy who was a big climber and climbed in an area.

Yeah.

I was like, yeah, I've seen elk here before. And I went and then I actually saw a six one of my first mornings. Never saw him again. But it knew nothing. And like I barely remember the season. I didn't get out much if I remember right. But yeah, never got even close in archery. Didn't see any elk and rifle, I don't think. And then that second year I killed a bull with my rifle. Actually called it in in Utah. Cuz it, it was opening day which was, I think it was October 5th. Okay. So I bugle in this bull and I'm like, wow, that happened. So it gave me a little bit more confidence. And in that. That was by the time I learned an area that I could consistently find. Elkin.

Right?

Yeah. And then killing my first archery bull. The. Or, sorry, the first rifle bull, I was like, okay, I can do it. And that kind of took the pressure off immediately. And then it went. I went like two years after that before I killed another bull. I think I killed cows, just rifle cows in there, but didn't kill another bull for, like, two years. And I started. I was actually thinking about this, um, because you always ask, right? Like, what advice would you give your. You just starting out. And for me, it's care less.

Oh, interesting.

Because I wanted to be successful so bad, to the point where my wife was like, you're coming home from trips. Just in a pissy mood because I wasn't successful. Right. And the moment I think I heard it on one of your podcasts a long time ago, and I was like, yeah, maybe I should just care less. Like, why am I doing it? Is it for to kill something? Is. Or is there bigger meaning behind it? And that's when I was. I actually. That's that season I killed my first archery bull. And it was. It was like such a. Just a bam. This happened. Holy hell. Like, what? And I was struggling during that hunt, right? Like, and I. I actually drove home, spent the night here at the house, woke up the next morning, drove out midday. Like, didn't even get an early start. It was just like, I don't even care. Just came home, took a day, and then killed that neck that I think it was that night or maybe the next day or something. So it's just like, I just. I don't know, took the pressure off. Yeah. And it was hard. Exactly. 100. Because. And I, like, thinking back on why that is, I feel like every single hunt, dude, something's going wrong.

Yeah.

It doesn't matter. And more likely than not, a lot of things are going to go wrong. And so it's like, don't let that, like, learn to brush that away. Like, that's what I mean, really, by care less is don't care. Who cares? Right. Like, prime example, this Utah hunt we're talking about. You were driving with me. I blew a transmission an hour, hour and a half south of town. Yeah. And I easily, like, you even. I think I started being like, what the. Like, yeah, just pissed off. Yeah. Like, this ruins the hunt. Not caring that my truck could cost $10,000 just to fix. You were like, dude, whatever. Like, this Is only the start of the hunt. There's shit's gonna happen. I'm like, yeah, you're right.

Yeah.

And my snowmobile, brand new snowmobile I bought for that hunt. Like, not for that hunt only, but, I mean, I bought brand new because I needed it for that hunt. And that had issues, right? Like, and there are so many other things, but. So it's just like learning, I feel like.

Yeah.

And it. That comes with just experience. Like, you're just like, man, these hunts, like, I would. I remember laughing, like, at Arizona, it was just like, dude, one thing after another after another after another. And I'm, you know, in my head, I'm like, okay. You know, it's like, that's happens. That happens. That did weeks of this, and it's like, yeah, it'll eat at you. And I. You have to go. I think you have to go through some of that, though. I mean, you have a lot of experience outside of just hunting, though. But it's going to happen. You got to, you know, trickle it off. But. But to your point, I do think that if you put so much. I don't say pressure, but pressure on, like, I gotta kill this elk. Like, you're gonna screw things up. You're gonna get more frustrated. You're not gonna, like, be able to just brush that off. And you have to be able to brush it off. And I think what makes great hunters, great hunters is this understanding that it only takes five minutes. Like, it could happen so quickly. And it. To me, it's happened so many times. I mean, this year was a great example. Like, I was already thinking about the next day, the next week, the other stuff, and it's like, oh, elk, it's dead. It's like, whoa, that was instant. Like, what just happened? And that happens. I. I'll remind myself of that so many times when I get in that place. And if you don't have that, it's difficult. But, like, we all go through it. We all go through, like, God, another year. I didn't kill one. Like, you know, it's just like, it could happen in two seconds. It happened two seconds. And if. If you know, your horses are head back, headed to the barn, like, not paying attention. Usually when it happens, right, you have to learn to, like, service or shrug that off. But I also think, for me, the biggest thing has been in the last two years has been a lot of all. You just walk up and shoot them. And, like, I think if you overthink, like, what do I do? Okay, I see the elk now what do I do? In a lot of ways, just walk up and shoot it. Like, I think people over complicate it. And granted, like, you know, keeping the wind in your face, trying to guess the wind. What's the wind doing over there? Like, all these things. Yes, they're complicated, but man, sometimes it's just walk up and it.

I think a lot of times too, and I've. Even still, it's like I was saying, not having to worry about calling changes it. Yeah, right. Like, and it's almost a. Like, just stick to one thing, like, figure it out. And by doing that, it's like you almost need to just say, okay, I'm going to choose, you know, this style. Right. And stick to that. Whether it's for a season, a hunt, a week, a day, whatever it is an opportunity at elk, like, test it out, see what happens. And to me, that's how I learned was I just started doing a whole bunch of different things. But then there was a point at, well, should I call? Should I not what kind of call when? And it doesn't matter. Like, just you almost. It's almost paralysis by analysis. Right? You're so indecisive that you don't do anything and you miss the opportunity.

Yeah, I think, I think that is kind of a problem you have. Like, in the age of podcast YouTubers, like, there's so much information out there that I do think that you kind of fall into this, like, paralysis by analysis. Like, what do I do? I really like having a couple tools in the tool chest. Like, I think too many people are shopping for a recipe, and I don't think the recipe works in every scenario. Granted, maybe you could run one recipe enough times, but I think that. I think that era is gone. Like in 2005. That worked. Run this recipe, Run it as much as often as you can, and it'll work. I think there's too many hunters, too many other sources now, and I think you kind of have to have a couple different recipes, but too many people are shopping for this one recipe that they do and this calls out or this. This is how they kill out. I think you kind of need a couple different recipes. Like in. In my book. Like, you just like, man, it's, I'm gonna try this, or like, these are my three. If I look at a scenario, which of those three is gonna work in this, like, playbook? Right? You get and learn a little bit and you kind of grow a little bit outside of that. But, like, I don't call that much anymore. I still have that capability. I could still do it, but I try to, like, do this first and then, then if that doesn't work, I'll try that scenario. But, like, I don't go at that recipe particularly first. I go at, try to get in front of them. Like, where are they going to go? How do I cut them off? Then if I need to fall back to calling, I have it. But again, a lot of what I'm trying to do is not. I want to be able to play again tomorrow. So if, even if I get that one wrong, say I try to cut them off, I get in front of them, it doesn't work, but I don't blow them. I do it again tomorrow, I do it again the next day. If you call, we have to start this whole thing. I have to go find them again. And then, like, who knows if they're in a better position? Probably not. And so, like, it just makes it a little more difficult.

Yeah. And I think too, like, I feel like I did pretty good because when I started elk hunting, like, it was all in. Yeah. And so two things. One, when I say care less, you still need that drive, right? Because there's people, I have friends that have started and they're like, oh, yeah, if I kill one, oh, well, if that's what you want to do. Like, you need to put time in, you need to learn areas, you need to learn elk behavior, your weapon. Like, there's your gear. Like, being comfortable in the wilderness, depending on if. If you are or not. Like, I obsessed for years.

And do you think you have to have that first?

Not necessarily. You need a mentor, right? I had no one. I pretty much taught myself everything when it comes to elk hunting. So I think people, you can have that fast track. But if you don't, then yes, I feel like you need to. Maybe not obsessed, but like, I mean, I was like walking my dog. I'd be listening to podcasts, I'd be listening to, like, any courses I could anything. Like any downtime I had. It was something about elk. I was, you know, reading books about it. And if that's why. Whereas if I just had a mentor or whether it was like, from childhood, which I actually think to late onset hunters act like it's more common for them to obsess and dive deep down the rabbit hole, I feel I would agree with that. And, and so I think that actually helped versus a lot of people. Like, I feel like you growing up, elk hunting is almost not rare, but, like the minority of how obsessed you are. With it, like, people who grow up, it's just like, you know, whatever. Like, it would almost be like whitetail hunting to me. Whereas I. You couldn't pay me.

Right. To think about.

Yeah. To care if it happens. Yeah, sure, I'll do it. Yeah. And there's nothing else going on. Sure. But, like, again, I almost feel like someone who grew up elk hunting, they have that. Right, so. Right. Yeah. So I think there's that fine line of, like, care le. Like, basically, just have fun, man.

Like, care less, but try harder.

Yes, exactly. Right, right, right. What else was I going to say? There's a second part to that. I lost track, I think. But, yeah, I mean, like, it. Care less, but, yeah, try harder. 100%.

Yeah.

The one thing I do see, you put in an extreme amount of effort, so it's interesting to hear you say care less, because I do know you put an extreme amount of effort. Whether that equates to success, I think it equates to drive. I think it equates to knowledge. I think it equates to a bunch of things. But I don't know that it necessarily equates to direct killing elk indirectly. Yes. Um, but, like, I do think that most people need more of that. Right. To cover more ground, to, like. I don't want to say try harder, but try harder, you know? Like, I think the one thing I've always said is, like, if you had a mentor, you would understand what it run means to run at race pace. Like, if you just like, man, that's. That's the pace we're supposed to run at. Like, that is what's, like, eye opening. Right. Or like, how hard you have to do those other pieces and then be patient. Right. And then care less.

And then that actually leads to, like, just thinking through a second thing. If I was to go back and tell myself in that 2018 season, it is fail faster at learning that pace. And like, not everyone in me, my example, I didn't have that mentor. I didn't have someone to go show me the pace. If it's not working for you, don't be afraid to try something different.

Right.

Like if you were super conservative in the red zone and it's not working, you know, a couple times, granted, every situation is different. Every situation is, like, big time different. But don't be afraid to try something new. Like, be aggressive that next time and see how it works out. And I did that. Like, I quickly was like, okay, something's not working. Let's try this. That's just in Just, just hearing other people on different podcasts in their specific situation. And this is what the second thing I was going to say is like. But also, like, listen to be a sponge and absorb that, but have the. I don't know how you do this, but like, just know that. Like, think your specific situation in terms of the terrain, the pressure, the type of tag you have versus the story you're listening to and know what tactics, why it's different. Right, Right. Like someone in west coast Oregon probably isn't necessarily going to give me a whole lot of tactics for eastern Montana.

Right, Right.

Like, that's an extreme. Yeah.

The other extreme example is like you watch Primos on YouTube and you're like, well, this is how Will Primos did it. Well, he was on the CA ranch and he like whistled and you're like, that's weird. Whistles. And it didn't come.

Just have that. Think through it. Think through your. Where you're hunting and what you're watching. And it. I forget we were just talking about this in business of like, take note of it, but don't necessarily invest in it. Right. Like, don't, don't make that like, oh, okay, that's what I'm doing next season. Right. But also be like, oh, in this situation, so. And so did that and that worked for them. Like, just kind of take mental note of it.

I'm still like formulating this, but it's that recipes concept of like, you know, just because you saw a good recipe doesn't mean you can like, replicate it. Like, try to take the basic principles of what worked or what didn't work or why and like the bigger picture. But then that's it. But yeah, I, I think kind of on the race pace thing, like the biggest difference I see between 101 and 201 and you know, I talk a little, little bit about this is I am not afraid to bum elk when I'm trying to find them. Like, I just don't care. And sometimes that changes. But like, if I'm like, if I'm just trying to figure out an area, like, say I show up in Utah, brand new unit, like, I'm going fast, very quickly. And if, like I'm hiking to a classic example, I'm going to a glassing knob. If I bumped elk on the way to the glassing knob, don't care. Like, whoops, Shoot. Darn. Versus, you know, the, the cliche one on one guy is like, he thinks there's an elk around every tree and he's like sneaking around and, like, calling his way through the woods and you're like, you have no idea how few of these things there really is. Like, if you only knew how few there was, you would not be concerned about, like, tiptoeing from your truck to the glassing knob. And that's like, an extreme example. But, like, I think that's a little bit of it is like, man, I'll just. I'll just go really fast and break it and then we'll fix that later. Like, oh, found them. Like, oh, my gosh. Like, here they are.

If anything, you're learning something about, like, take note of where that was and were they passing through? Are they hanging out maybe on your way back out?

Yeah.

Look around a little bit.

Yeah. But usually not going to go very far anyway.

Exactly, exactly.

That's, like, not overly concerned about it.

Yeah. Which learned that lesson learned in Utah with those giants.

Yeah.

Because they literally went nowhere. Yeah. And blew them out.

Yeah. Like, yeah, they're probably right there. The irony is they're probably still right there somewhere.

Ah, dude, they. I think they're in Mexico now. They did not like the smell of me that morning.

Dude. Speaking of which, I found a ranch in Mexico that has elk on it. Didn't know you could hunt elk in Mexico. Yeah, I don't know how good the bulls are. And you know the interesting thing? Total random sidebar. So this ranch started following the Instagram page and they're like, elkan, Mexico. I'm like, oh, that's cool. I'd be stoked if their rut was in January. So if they could fix it. Yeah, right. If they could fix that problem. Like, I instantly thought, I wonder if the rut's later. Because, like, you know, deer.

Yeah. Field deer. Right. In Arizona, even they rut and. Yeah.

What the hell, get some different elk.

Yeah. Huh.

Or like, go to New Zealand or Russia. Get elk.

The.

That, like, rut. Whatever. The opposite.

Oh, yeah. Huh.

If we get April rut, too. That'd be super sick.

Talk about my wife hating me how much I hunt. I had your dad.

Cool, man. Well, yeah, congrats on a terrible season. But at least you, you know, you.

Got, had fun, had fun, care less.

He still filled the freezer.

So. Yeah, it's good. It's a good time.

Cool, man.

Alrighty, guys, thanks for tuning in to the show. If you like this episode, do us a huge favor and share it with one of your hunting buddies. Also, if you want a free hunt planner, be sure to go check the link in the Show. Notes. It's 100 free. You can download our hunt planning tool, which is a great resource for kind of keeping track of all of your hunts, your hunt plans, your points, all those things. Pretty great resource. Go check it out links in the show notes. Or you can check our website www.elkhunt201.com.