Maximizing Your Time: How to Find Elk Fast

Foreign this is the Elk Hunt podcast. Home to everything elk hunting. I'm your host, Cody rich. From fellow DIYers to elk hunting legends, we have elk hunting stories, tips, tactics and more to get you pumped for elk season. Join us every week for great elk hunting content. Alrighty guys. Welcome to the Elkon podcast. Before we get started today, I got an announcement I want to tell you guys about. We're giving away a pretty cool prize, pretty cool price package, I should say. So if you're in the market for a new spotting scope, you better listen up. We're giving away a Maven S3 spotting scope. You can do the angled, you can do the straight, whichever you want you prefer. But we're giving away a brand new maven spotting scope. But that's not all. We're also giving away a full tricer setup. So a tricer ad and the tricer LP pan heads. So spotting scope, pan head tripod, the full works. It's a really, really awesome giveaway prize and you don't have to do much to win. All you gotta do is enter your email. So if you head over to the Elk hunt website or you can kick the link and socials, it'll take you right there. Just put your email in. All you do is sign up. Put your email in. You're automatically entered to win in the giveaway we're going to be selecting. I probably should look this up. July 22nd, I think it says on the website. So July 21st or 22nd, we're going to be picking a winner. We're also gonna do some other winners as well. So we might have some onyx prizes. I know for sure we have some hats and shirts and all that good stuff. So doing a big giveaway. If you guys are not yet sign up for the newsletter, you're automatically entered to win. And if you want 5x bonus entries, sign up for the lcunk course. I think it's a great course. I think it'll help you build your own system. And if you are already a course member, you already get 5x entries. So if you signed up in the last year and you can still log into your course, you're already get your 5x entry. So if you want to get 5 times the entries for less than $10 per entry to to win the spotting scope setup package, then sign up for the course. I think it'll make you a better elk hunter and you might just win a pretty sweet prize as well. So head over to elkhunt201.com get yourself entered and yeah, good luck. Thanks for listening, guys. All right, Jason, welcome to the podcast, man. How are we doing?

Thank you. Very good. Appreciate it.

Yeah, well, you and I connected because I. Well, when I first saw it, I was like, this is so cool. So you have a product that you, you make. It's kind of a little side hobby business for you. I thought it was so cool. And you and I did a giveaway back in January, I think, or December, and we gave away one of your, your products. I just, I'll let you kind of explain what it is, but I'd love to kind of dive into the product, the idea, where it came from, and then we can talk a bunch of elk hunting stuff. Because you and I, you know, we talked before the podcast, but you're like, man, I've been really struggling with the archery elk hunting thing, so we got a lot to cover. But first I want to hear, like, where did you come up? What is the product and where did the idea come from?

Yeah, so Wild Meat Gear is a company I started a few years ago. And two years ago we launched a product called the Meat Locker. And it's basically to simplify things. It's an insulated pop up tent that is designed to integrate with an air conditioner and a Coolbot. So if people are familiar with any sort of, you know, home built walk in cooler, they're generally going to use an air conditioner and a Coolbot. And the Coolbot is a device made by a company in Florida, and it overrides the controls on the air conditioner to let it run down to a lower temperature. So in effect, I have built this little side business with products that I myself, as a hunter, wanted and didn't see on the market. And so in my hunting past, especially when I was successful as a rifle hunter in my 15 years rifle hunting for elk, we would simply just try to find a big refrigerator and put meat in it for a day or two and then butcher it as quickly as we could. We never got the, the opportunity to hang me in a locker, let it age, tenderize, things like that. And another inconvenience of what we dealt with was you get home from hunting, you're tired, everything's dirty, you need to clean up, you need to go back to work, your wife, your family needs you, and then, oh, yeah, well, in two days, we need to spend the entire day, you know, processing this meat like there's an urgency. And so one of the key benefits of the meat lockers, you can hang your meat in your garage. You know, that's kind of how I design it. Bring the meat home and do it in your garage. But you can also do this in the field if you have a generator. And you can, you can just take your time, you know, wait four or five, 10 days and then do like one quarter an evening. Like it doesn't have to be this big push. Your meat's well cooled, it's taken care of. And anyway, that's kind of a long story, but it was like, how could I do this? You know, I need to build something that would serve people like me because I indeed wanted this product.

So anyway, I like, you're speaking straight into my soul because I so, I mean, I grew up, I've processed my own meat since, I don't know, since the beginning. Since when I was walking and you know, always do it with my dad and you know, family or whoever. Like anyone killed knock, we did it. And I was super spoiled when I lived in Oregon and one of my, you know, we always knew someone with a walking cooler. And one of my best friends, you know, he built, he built his house, he had a walk in cooler. And so, yeah, I was pretty spoiled. But when I moved to Montana in 2017, it was like, man, I didn't know anyone with walking cooler. I still don't know anyone with a walk in cooler. And it's like one of those things, right, man, someday, someday when I'm a millionaire, I want to have like a, you know, dedicated walk in cooler. And so when I saw, you know, your version of like just essentially a pop up tent, I was like, oh my gosh, that's so genius. Like something, you know, you use it one week out of the year, maybe two, right? Like it's not like you need it full time. And so I was like, oh, this is ingenious. So I love it. And I'm the same way. I get home and you know, got a dead elk and I'm you know, either like hanging it and then pulling it into coolers at night or in the daytime or like, you know, like you're bouncing it and it's like kind of only way to like let your meat hang for a little bit and you know, try to get through like all the chaos when you get back from a trip, which mine are usually like, I stayed too many days and now I have too many problems. And so, yeah, like this concept of like, you know, I think Dan State had post something last year and he just like had it in his garage and you know, it was just running And I was like, man, that is cool. Yeah, really cool.

It doesn't take permanent space. You know, like you say you use it one or two weeks a year and it basically folds up like a kind of a tall golf bag size. And then if you do it right, the air conditioner you can use all summer in, in one of the rooms of your house. So keep your wife, kids, cool. And anyway, I didn't want to build a permanent structure in my backyard.

Does it work with any of those AC units? Is like, is it particular? Because. No, I was just thinking like stand up one.

It's particular. It won't work with stand up ones because of the cool bot. So coolbot's website is storeitcoal.com, and they have a list of compatible air conditioners. And I've gone through that list and on my website, wildmeatgear.com I've created a list of like five recommended air conditioners that are, have the high enough BTU rating, will fit the port size in the side of the meat locker, and then are also compatible with the Meatlocks or with the Cool Bot. Sorry. So I've kind of done that homework for people.

Nice. And that's, I mean, yeah, great idea. Like all in. What's it cost? Like, if I didn't have anything.

So what we sell is a kit that's about 1375 bucks. That's the insulated tent, that's the meat pole system that goes up inside of it, and that's a stainless steel folding table that holds the air conditioner because those things are heavy. And then you would need to buy an air conditioner and a cool bot. So you're looking at probably about 2,200 bucks altogether.

Still cheaper than a walk in cooler, but.

And you don't have to spend a weekend building it either.

And you don't have to have it up all year.

No, you set it up in about 10 minutes and you're ready to go.

Man, that is super cool. So I'd love to dive into kind of your elk hunting journey and maybe we could, I don't want to like put you on the spot of some of the, the struggles or the faux pas or all that good stuff. But you know, you were, you were telling me, like, man, I was, I was, I was, I don't want to say was you are super successful with a rifle and then you made the switch. So like, what's, what's kind of your journey? Super high level. What's your journey into elk hunting? How Long you been doing it?

Yeah. So let's see. Elk hunting started for me probably about 20 years ago. My brother got me into it. He married a gal from Montana and so his father in law was a big time hunter and that's what got my brother into it. So my brother was really good at inviting me along and we hunted rifle season elk in Washington state for yeah, about 15 years. And in that time I've got, I got five elk, a bear, a couple deer. But elk really are what gets me excited for sure.

And you guys, I mean, kind of had it dialed like one spot. Are you like pretty successful?

Yeah, generally. So I think 14 of those years were in the same spot and we got to know some travel corridors really well. We had a good ambush spot that we would sit there and spot from dark to about 9am every morning. And then from then we'd be kind of going through the woods quietly and then checking it out that same area again in the evening. So it got real familiar and real routine. And after a while, unfortunately I started watching elk hunting, archery, YouTube videos and that got me thinking, wow, that's pretty cool to be so close to the elk and hearing them communicate. And hey, that's in September, I'm not freezing my fingers and toes. So that had a, that had a big appeal to me. So I switched in 2020 and, and went out on my own. I've been hunting with some buddies or by myself. And you know, for me the hard part has nothing to do with archery. I feel like I'm an okay enough shot. It's, it's the getting, it's the finding out and then getting in close. Like, like I was telling you before we started recording, that's, that's been my greatest challenge for sure.

But what were the three things that made you a good rifle? Well, Connor, in your opinion.

You know, I grew up camping in the mountains with my family, so I've done a lot of backpacking, mountaineering, a little bit of rock climbing. So I'm comfortable with the outdoors. Pretty much had all the gear for mountaineering and then just kind of kept upgrading to newer and newer stuff as time went on. So just general outdoors comfort I guess or familiarity is one. Grew up shooting BB guns in 22s, so shooting just came naturally and grew up shooting birds and squirrels in our backyard. Right. And so there kind of was a phase through high school and college where that was not even on my mind. But after college a couple things fell in place where my brother invited me and I was able to Get a rifle and a scope set up. And I actually had a colleague at work who actually a couple of colleagues at work that were very much into hunting. So I talked to them about some ideas and just, Just started basically and found out that I, I really enjoy hiking through the woods to try to find and pursue an animal more than like climbing a peak. You know, I did a lot of hiking and climbing at a younger age. And that, I don't know, that has kind of lost its appeal to me rather than being in the woods trying to find and chase down an animal. That just is a fun challenge for me, for sure.

So what. So you transition to archery, see some YouTube video, you're like, ah, that looks fun. Yeah. Walk me through the, the, like the first year, the first two years. Like, what are the struggles? Like, what, what feels different to you?

Well, I wanted to try a new place and so I, I found a place here in Washington state and I. Washington state's goofy. Like, you've got to pick one side or the other. And if you pick the east side, then the oversight, the over the counter tags are just for spikes.

Yeah.

Which I have nothing against spikes. They're just not as romantic, you know, to hunt, I guess. But. But I decided I want to hunt the west side where you could, you could hunt for bulls with an over the counter tag. And, you know, a lot of things went well. I mean, opening morning, this was probably my best encounter in the last five years. Opening morning, I was within like 25 or 30 yards of a beautiful five 5x5 elk just having the stare down. And I've replayed that moment a lot of times because I would have done things differently. He gave me opportunities to draw that in the moment. I just did not realize, and that haunts me. But it was just, it was a super cool moment. I mean, elk are beautiful. It's. I love to see him in the wild and I, I love to shoot them too. It's kind of this strange thing where you really respect the animal. You love to see him, but you also want to shoot them. But I just love being close to him. And that was a really cool encounter. But then the rest of the week, shoot, we didn't see. We didn't see a single elk the whole rest of the week.

So what do you. Why are you struggling? In your opinion, why are you struggling to locate? Like, start at the top, you know, like, is it. I mean, like, you. Okay, so I want to like, recap a touch for everyone because. And I'll give you a Reason why. But you go into to rifle, you kind of have the outdoorsman skills, you have the shooting skills, and let's call it better or worse luck, you. You kind of run in or you figure out what the elk are doing, you figure out an area, and you're consistent, right? It's 15 years of, like, okay, we know the ridges, the saddles, the pinch points. Like, it's a. It's a slow process, right?

Just put in the time and something.

Yeah, 100. And, like, yeah, so much of it is. Yeah, you have to put in the time. There's maybe some luck, like, you. You. You stumble in an area where something's consistent. You know, I. I don't know if I've ever had 15 years of, like, an area that produces. Right. It's like, it'll produce and stents, and then, you know, for me, it always washes out. But either way, you kind of had those skills. But then archery takes a whole different set of skills.

A.

It starts with, like, finding elk in September verse late October or November, which is very, very different. Walk me through. Like, what are. What are you struggling with? Like, is it. Is it finding elk? So I think starting at the top is, like, you know, step one of this system. Well, step one would be choosing the right area we could dive into. Like, why Washington is not that, but I want to actually solve the problem in Washington because it's too easy for me to say, just don't hunt in Washington, which is. Is not a valid answer.

Right?

Like, so I want to help you figure it out in Washington. So step one is, like, choosing the unit. Step two is finding elk within the unit. And then step three is getting close. Like, we just boil it down. Like, okay, yeah, we can solve each one of those problems, but they're very different problems to solve in Europe. I could start at the top. I. I don't really want to, because I want to leave it where you are. Like, the units you're choosing. Maybe we could dive into why they're good or bad. Like, do you feel like, overall, like, man, there should be elk here. I'm assuming statistics say there's some out there.

Like, yeah. So I think part of my problem is I've been bouncing around a lot. Honestly, every year, I have, like, four to five different game plans where I'll spend 24 to 36 hours, and if I'm not seeing fresh sign, I will bounce somewhere else. I. I don't want to just invest the whole week in. In something that looks like there's been no out there for a long time. But I think it's. So for me it's been very hard to find the elk basically. And I do do e scouting ahead of time. Sometimes I have the opportunity to scout in July or August, the actual area, set up trail cameras, then come back a month or two later and see what's there. But also I found that you can, you can see elk and sometimes they're just on this kind of migratory pattern that's five to ten days. And okay, they were here last weekend. Here's like a little herd of 30 and they don't come back for another 10. Like you just might be there when they are not.

Yeah.

And they're just grazing and, and carving territory every day. And so I just have not gotten into a, a big number of elk at all during hunting season. I did hunt in Idaho, I guess that was two years ago. I had high hopes, but it was very much the same situation. I didn't, didn't get great units because just the way it played out that day, waiting in line, I got leftover.

Scraps and you got to tag those25,000 tags later. Yeah.

Something. I don't know, it was like a six hour ordeal.

Yeah.

But I was excited to go and I put, I think I was there 10 days, which, you know, was a fair investment of time for me.

Yeah. So what does your day to day look like? You show up. Let's, let's. You could use the Idaho example, we could use a Washington example. But like what is, what does finding elk look like to you? Like first day we get there, what's the, what's the routine? What's the system? Like you said, are you setting a belt camp? Like how, what's the day look like?

So sometimes I will backpack in four or five miles and set up just a spike camp and then day hike from there. Do 8 to 10 mile loops. Sometimes I like sleeping at the truck and just getting up early and going different areas.

So what makes you choose, like say we stay at the truck. What makes you choose a spot over another? Are you hiking into basins? Are you running ridges?

Yeah, I'm looking, I'm looking at the terrain honestly. I'm trying to find places where I think other people will not be. I've early on I just kept bumping into hunters and I'm like, I want to get away from people. And sometimes there's more people 10 miles in than there are two miles in. So I'm just trying to think, okay, where's a non Obvious place to go. Where are there not trails, where's their terrain, where it looked okay, there's water source, there's going to be feed. I don't think I figured out a great way to find ambushes or and I'm not super patient to sit and wait either. I'd rather it be just like still hunting all day.

Yeah, like is your primary location method a bugle tube or glassing?

I'm, I'm doing bugling and cow calling once in a while, but it's mostly looking for sign, listening and just observing what's around. A lot of where I've hunted recently, you know, binoculars is not going to do you much good. It's been heavily forested areas so it's not like a spot and stock situation. It's just been still hunting through the woods looking for sign and seeing if they're around.

Yeah. Okay. So one of the tactics and I guess one more question before I kind of get dive into like how I would change it. What you had mentioned, like you usually get a week. If you were to choose a week. What week are you choosing or maybe which one are you going this year?

This year I'm trying something different because I feel like I've dealt with a lot of hot Septembers with hardly any calling action. So I'm going to go early October during muzzleloader season here in Washington. Hunting with the bow just as an experiment. But Washington season is usually like in the teens of September and it's, it's brief like the, the archery season's like 11 days if I remember right. I'd love to be in like the 21s through the 30th of September somewhere in there, but that's just not possible here. I'm thinking more and more about Montana, Wyoming, Idaho. Those take time to, to make happen and their further drives. But yeah, I am growing frustrated with Washington. I've got a lot of quality points and bull points but like 12 or 13 in each, but have you aiming too high.

Okay, I gotta like unpack all that. I first and foremost like one of my classic sayings I tell friends all the time, you know, they're like oh that's so much farther. I'm like I would rather drive 12 more hours than spend 12 days hunting somewhere where I didn't see.

Like that'd be rather a lot of sense to me Kirby, you know, like.

And I, I'm as guilty of this as anyone sometimes. Like, oh well this is a little bit closer. Like it's a three hour drive and like, the difference may be three days wasted. Like, when you really boil it down.

To that, it's not a good investment, is it?

Yeah, right. It's like. But I do want to solve the problem because I have so many Washington and Oregon listeners, and, like, I grew up in those in the same scenario, so I understand it very well. And I don't want to just like, take the shortcut of like, oh, go hunt, you know, Montana or New Mexico or whatever. Like, obviously, like, hunt better tags I think is like kind of a blanket statement, right? But, like, what if I can't? Okay, let's solve it for that. And, you know, there's. There's ways to do that. Like you said, the Washington one is brutal because the dates are pretty terrible, right? Like, it's just hot, it's miserable. Elk aren't talking and you can't glass like you're. It doesn't surprise me that you're not running into elk, right? And it's really difficult to triple the input. So I like to say inputs equal outputs, right? Like, how do I triple the input to just get an output, right? So hypothetically, I go to Idaho. You and I go to Idaho. Let's just say we use good dates. I don't know, whatever. 20, you know, in the 20s, we're gonna go last 10 days of season, 20 to 30. We get there and, you know, an option, I think too many people just go way slow. They're just like, oh, let's go hunt. And they set up truck and they, like, hunt into an area to try to find it, right? And then that next evening, they hunt into a different area. And so, like, they're essentially in that 10 days, they're going to get 20 locations, roughly speaking, right? Because they're going into two locations a day. Very roughly speaking. And so, like, just by inserting one more location per day, like, we now went from 20, 20 areas to 30 areas. But if we can triple that and we can just cover more ground, faster, quicker, whatever it may be, like, how do we. How do we search the entire unit? And one of the things I learned from studying a lot of like 301 level oak hunter. So if you take. I don't love using any of the big names, but, like, let's just say mossback, right? Like, so Mossback is going to go into a unit and they're going to find the biggest bull in the unit. And so how are they going to do that? Well, they're going to have a team of dudes and they're going to search every nook and cranny. They're going to like, they're, they're just going to tear it apart as if you looking for your truck keys in your house. Like they're just ripping everything apart as quickly as they possibly can. And like the, it's unreasonable effort that they aren't going to find the biggest bull. Right. They have enough eyeballs, enough glass, they're covering enough ground. And so like if you just take that simple framework and say like, okay, here's the unit we're going to, unit 1, 2, 3 in Washington, which is a unit. Okay. How do we search it high to low as if we were looking for keys? Okay. So we're going to take the obvious spots where we usually set our keys. Like man, I always set them on the nightstand. I always set them on the, the windowsill. I always do like. So how do I apply that to elk hunting? Well, they're generally in these canyons away from people. Like this place seems like a good nook. You know, I'm going to check the most plausible spots first. Right. And so, and then I'm going to start working. Right. I didn't find my keys in all of the obvious places. So how do I like. Okay, let's, let's just keep looking as fast as we can. And I only have 10 days to get this done. So like realistically I need to boil figuring out where the elk are in this unit into like two or three days. So I have to work unreasonably hard. If I, if you and I had a really crappy tag in Idaho, I. Younger me would not sleep. Maybe now I would. But like younger me would go all night and go all day. I would take like a three, four hour cat nap. But like all night we're bugling. We're. I can cover almost an entire unit, probably 100 miles that night. Like we're gonna bugle all night long at first light. I. I'm gonna try to glass as much country as I possibly can. Oh and, or just be where I can hear the most. And you know, so it's gonna be a toss up if it's windy. Like we're just gonna go where we can glass if it's like, you know, whatever. It's not, but it's thick. I'm gonna go where I can hear the most. Right. And so then I'm going to be covering ground from mid morning, I'm going to go check a different spot. Midday I'm going to go start checking water holes just to See sign. I'm going to cover an entire drainage bottom to see if I can turn up a wallow. And then, you know, working all day, maybe I take a cat nap in the afternoon on the mountain and then we're going to like cover more, wallow in the afternoon and then we're going to be up glassing again at night, eat dinner, nap, go. That's an un. It's unreasonable that I wouldn't find elk, right? If I worked that hard for three days straight, like I'm going to find out, I'm probably gonna find two or three herds, then from there I can slowly whittle into like what those two or three herds are doing. I think the mistake too many people make is, I don't wanna say they hunt like their grandpa, but like they go and they're like, let's go on an evening elk hunt, let's go on a morning elk hunt. And then the week is gone. Before you know it, the week is gone and you just didn't have elk. For a lot of my life, when I hunted using a bugle a lot more, I would, I would be going like crazy and I, I would, I would go non stop until I at least found one herd and then I would probably go non stop until I picked up a second or a third. And so I had options, right? I wouldn't really start honing in on those elk except for peak hours, so morning and evening that, you know, I start honing in on that herd to figure out what they're doing, where they're going, you know, where they're feeding, where they're bedding, like all those things. And I may be making attacks, but then all night I'm still looking for that second herd, right? Because I need more options. I need two or three options because I'm like, one is I'm going to screw it up. So one is like not enough elk to hunt. And so like inputs equal outputs. If I work that hard and I find that many elk, if I had six herds of elk at any, like any unit, like, I just feel like, oh man, something's going to happen. I can go bust these herds and basically go from herd to herd to herd and I'm going to have an opportunity. And so I say that the other mistake people make is they're always hunting and they're not finding. In my mind, I separate those two things, right? So when I'm, I have a unit, I need to find elk. Finding elk is go as hard as you can, as fast as you can. If I bump elk, that's okay. Like, we'll. We'll. Like, I'm not advocating bumping elk. I'm trying to, but I found them. Like, we did it. And if. If it takes running or covering ground at a speed that I'm not going to kill anything, I'm okay with that. Like, I'm going to do the best I can to, like, slow down in. In areas. If I get the tinglies, I'm like. Or I smell elk. Like, of course I'm going to slow down. I'm going to, like, try to play it easy.

Right?

But if I just still hunted from the truck, I would never find an elk because the amount of elk per square mile is just not enough that I can cover ground and, like, be into elk. So too many people assume. And this isn't you. It's kind of everyone. Too many people assume there's an elk behind every tree, and it's like, there's just not. And some of these places maybe, like, great hunting. In Montana, Sure, I've been in those situations. New Mexico, I've been in those situations, man. In Oregon, I grew up on the coast. Like, you go 20 miles and not see an elk. And so, like, if I hunted as if there was an elk behind every tree, I just wouldn't cover enough ground. I wouldn't find enough elk. And so, you know, over time, you learn. You figure out where they all kind of hang out. You know, like, you're. You're adding it to, like, your mental, like, you know, area map. Right? Like, oh, man, these elk are over here. Then they're over here. Is that the same herd? Is that a different herd? Maybe there's two over there. I think there's two herds in that drainage. And, like, you start to figure those things out. And that's when you can start hunting elk. Right? That's when you, like, oh, where. Where are they going? Oh, they're going here. They use this saddle. I watched them last night. I think I can slip in. And so to me, it's. It's fairly important to separate the two things of, like, finding elk and getting close to elk. To me, there's, like, different categories. Does that make sense?

Yep.

Not to get on a soapbox.

What are some of the things that you do? Like, if you're going to be trying to locate elk all night, how do you do that? What's. What's your top tactics there? Yeah.

So what are you doing? Absolutely. I mean, like, I tend to do it, like, pretty late. This episode of the Podcast is brought to you by Stone Glacier. I'm excited to tell you about the new Sky Archer 6400. It's the pack that I'm going to be running this year. And one of the things I love about all Stone Glacier packs is the fact that I can use the pack on an eight day backpacking hunt and then turn around and kind of use it as a day pack for elk hunting. Their packs are so light that you don't need a different pack for both. They can just do both. They can be a day pack and they weigh almost nothing. Love the new Sky Archer. It's got great setup for the bow, which I'm excited about for archery hunting. But again, it works great for, you know, longer eight, ten day hunts as well. If you're interested in a new pack, go check out the new Sky Archer. The whole line of Stone Glacier packs is awesome. They kind of have something for everyone. So go check them out. Stoneglazer.com obviously, like I'm going to be on a glassy knob or covering a ridge at dark, right? And I, I'm not, not opposed to like working my way all the way to somewhere and then it gets dark somewhere and I have to work my way all the way back. And I don't treat it much differently if it was daylight or dark. Like I'm gonna work a ridge, I'm gonna bugle every couple hundred yards. You know, I might shorten up the calling sequence depending on the time of season, but like, doesn't really change anything. I mean, I've done full five mile loops in the dark and just been like, I gotta cover ground and figure it out. You know, a lot of times if you're in an area with roads, like you can cover roads and the, the real tip there is if you run it in the daylight and you mark all the spots, it's much easier because in the dark, when it's dark, I mean, not that it doesn't really matter, but like when it's dark, you can't remember where to, like, oh, I should be here or I should be here.

Sure.

And so like when you're driving in the daytime, you're like, oh man, look, I can see down into this canyon. Essentially if I cast this net, I will hear a long, see, I, it'll, I'll be here, be, be heard from a long distance and I can hear for a long distance. So like, you know, I'll mark those spots at night and then I'll just go back to those waypoints along those Roads. And it's nothing to be like, okay, let's run all of this. You know what? Like, we're just not hearing anything. And to me, I've just become, I wouldn't say, I would say very reliant on like, man, if they're not bugling at 11 o' clock or 12 o' clock at night, good luck. Like, they're just not going to be going the daytime, right? And you know, and so it kind of is a good litmus test of like, is there something here I could be seeing sign? And I'm not hearing anything in the daytime. Doesn't mean, doesn't really mean a lot if they're not bugling at night and at. Not in the daytime. It's like, okay, let's find different out quick.

Okay?

You know what I mean? Somewhere on the mountain a bull is screaming his face off. And I think, you know, you can do that and maybe run around to a whole different mountain. You check, you know, your plan C and you're like, let's just bomb all the way over there. Do some calling. Even now today, like, I'll do it with fields all the time. Like all these elk were in eastern Montana. I mean, they're all in fields at night. So it's like I can roll up to a field and like usually just sit there for a little bit, you know, let the. Obviously they hear the truck. You stop the truck for 5, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, whatever, and pretty soon you hear him start to pipe off. If not, you know, I, you know, throw out a little spike bugle or a bugle of any kind. Like it's a locate bugle. It doesn't have to be crazy. And you know, bull answers you like, oh, there's elk in that field. So the same thing works in super open country. And then, you know, like, you start to learn. Like, oh, okay, these elks start leaving the fields well into the, you know, into the night, before the daylight, you know, before the sun comes up, before daylight even cracks. And if you just like sit there and you wait and you listen like, you learn so much at night. And I would do the same things, you know, even if I couldn't see anything, I was like, hey, let's just work out this ridge. Or you know, say we, we plan a. A plan a. A route out. We take a ridge out and obviously we're kind of maybe calling or we just, we go all the way to a glassing point and we wait till the last 30 minutes. Maybe we pipe off the last 30 minutes. If it's super hot, I'm not expecting anything to bugle, you know, two hours before the sun goes down, it's just too hot. It's too. It's not gonna work. So ideally be glassing or like light.

Right.

At last light. But oftentimes I'll just hang out for another hour, you know, and then start giggling because I've just had too many times where like elk didn't get up or didn't make a sound till an hour after, after dark, you know, and you just have to figure out where they are. It's not, you know, I'm not trying to hunt those elk at all. It's just like, oh, there they are. They are here. You know, I was seeing sign, but not. I didn't have any proof of life. Really. Yeah, I was like, now I have proof of life. And so then, you know, say we get back to the truck and it's. I don't know, gosh, it gets dark at 10 o' clock at night and it's 10:45, you know, most guys are going to bed. It's like, hey, let's run down to this spot and let's hike in that other ridge and see if there's anything down there. And so we hike in and, you know, rip a couple bugles off and, you know, nothing or there is. And man, like, I've just found so many elk that way and just covering more ground, you know, just gotta cover more ground to find elk. And like, I think you go to Washington, you go to any of these places where it's like very low density, you just cover enough ground, you find them there, there's elk there. I mean, if there's elk in the unit, they're usually bugling at night. You know, peak rut, they get to find them somewhere.

Yeah.

And you know, the thing I found too, is that you do that and you. I found elk where I didn't think they would be, you know, found elk, had no idea existed. I found, you know, big rut fest that way. Like, I found all kinds of things just kind of covering ground. But the same thing could be said at night or in the daytime. You know, like a lot of times that's a good opportunity to figure out where they're going. Right? So if, I don't know, whatever, you find these elk and you're like, man, I heard one bugle down there, like, let's go check out that bottom. And you kind of work in slow and maybe that's a good time to like, set up do some soft cow calling and things like that. But, like, I want to check this bottom just to see if there's, you know, wallows they're using, cricks they're using, whatever. Maybe they're going to the next rich. Like, any information I can figure out is useful. And when you get to a unit, you have to. You have to do that to, like, cover ground. So I guess that's like step. That's like first, second step, which is like, east county is kind of the first step. Second step is like, how do we. How do we find the elk? That's first and foremost. Do you feel like there's room for improvement for you there? Like, what's your. What's your thought? Like, I think.

I think I could do more stuff at night and getting up earlier, but I feel like, you know, basically from the break of dawn till after dark, I'm. I'm generally out there moving, doing bugle, doing locator bugles from ridges, listening, dropping down into drainages. I mean, I'm usually putting 10 plus miles a day. I'm not coming back to camp, you know, in the middle of day. If. If I. I might take a rest at lunchtime for 20 minutes and just listen to what's around me. But usually I'm. I'm moving. I just feel like I had. I. We did. We did bump some elk last year. You know, little groups of, you know, a bull and a couple of cows. But there was very short time difference between when we saw them and they saw us. So, like, the first group we got to observe for, you know, a minute or two, and then they busted out, and the other ones busted out before we even knew we were there. So it's like, not much opportunity to try to set up and hunt them. The only other elk I saw this is last season were. Was when I was driving to relocate. I saw cows bedded up on this grassy side of the hill right above the road. And I've had luck in the past seeing cows like that, where you just keep driving, go like a few hundred yards, quietly get out and sneak around. And sometimes. And I've had. I've gotten fairly close before, but in this particular instance, I never saw those cows again.

So was it just cows?

Yeah, and I had a cow tag last year, so I was pumped, like, okay, this is a great opportunity because in Washington, you don't always get tags, so.

Yeah, yeah. And it's tough, like, when you find those groups of cows, like, don't have any bull like those. Very difficult like to, to get on, to get killed. Like, very difficult, you know, lost calf maybe. Doing some cow calls so many times though. Like they see the truck. Would not surprise me if they never said a word. You never saw him again? Like, it's just kind of how some of those groups of cows work. Yeah. I don't know. The other, the other advice, you know, like you were talking about going on midday. Midday is so hard. And just sometimes like, you're just killing those hours. Like I, I would, I would 10 times in, in search phase, in hunt phase, I would change that. But in search phase, I 100 would rather have my nights than my days. If I had to choose. Like I, I just, you know, tomorrow in the middle of the day can be. Can be, you know, feel it makes you feel productive. I don't know if you're always productive, you know, more, more time than not, you're like, you're just killing yourself in the heat of the day. You know what I mean? Sitting water kind of sucks too. I. I found out for sure, you know, being out there matters, I think, all things considered. For sure. For sure being out there helps. There was, I'll give you an example. One time, year before last, I killed the bull the boy killed. The year before last, there was a group of cows that I had seen all by themselves. And that morning, it's in a couple days, and they're in a weird spot. There was no other elk there, but I was like, surely bulls are going to come there. And actually that morning I chased a good bull. He had disappeared in, in the vicinity of those cows. He was headed to where those cows were. And I thought, oh, maybe he'll go over there. So I, I was like, get back to the truck. Mid morning, I'm like, I'm gonna go just take a gander at those, that group of cows, see if I can turn them up, see whatever, get on the glass. Hot, super hot. And I like climb up there, glass these cows up. They're kind of the same spot they've been bedding out in sagebrush. And you know, I can't see everything, but I'm watching, I'm watching. I'm like trying to see, hoping they're gonna get up when it. Because they're coming into the sun. And I was like, there's still no bowl there. I was like, that's weird, you know, but gosh, that must have been noon or 12:30. A bull pipes off, you know, easy bed bugle, hot, so hot. And I was like, where the heck is he, you know, like I just heard it once and it was like they're in the vicinity of me. I couldn't figure out where it was. I called and called and called and see if I get him to bugle again. He didn't. And you know, 45 minutes later he popped off again. I was like, gosh, he's right there somewhere. He's definitely in his bed. Does not care about me, not with those cows. Like he's right there. How big you were? Oh, I, you know, exactly. I was probably 3, 400 yards at that point.

Okay.

Yeah. And I, I literally just moved 50 yards and I glassed him up from where I was sitted. Seated. I couldn't see him. He was just like behind a tree. And it, I knew it was coming from that direction but like really didn't. Yeah. Anyway, he was faced kind of away. So when he was bugling it it. I couldn't pinpoint where he was. Long story short, I moved 50, 75 yards, found him, snuck in and ended up shooting him that night. And ironically, like I thought for sure he was going to go towards the cows where he was bedded. He was, I don't know, 700 yards away from those cows and, but just kind of across a, a big draw. And I thought for sure. And when he got up at, I don't know, 6:30, I thought it was. He basically got up and turned with the exact opposite way of those cows. And I was like, that was weird. So like you just never know. But you know, if I wasn't out there middle of the day, never would have heard that bull, never saw the bull, never would have killed that bull. So you know, and that was a hot day, didn't seem like a great idea, but like, you know, a part of me felt like I need to be working, need to be doing something. So I was like, I'll just go up on the glassing knob. And sure enough, you know, there was a bowl 400 yards away and it worked out good. So, you know, it's hard to say what to do. Like sometimes you just gotta get lucky and being out there, you're gonna get lucky. Right. I know of a lot of the stories where it's like midday, didn't want to do anything, went out, you know, ended up finding a bull. Usually kill em in the evening or the next day or something. But you know, finding those elk midday is possible, but I do feel like I found a lot more elk at nighttime.

So are you, how are you using the middle of the day? Typically Then are you using that to relocate to a different location in the unit or taking a break or how do you.

My days look very different. So we talk a lot about the levels and this is my co host Jaden and I have kind of built this started in 2019. So we always say like 101 is when you're wandering around trying to get lucky. 201 is you know, you're consistently killing elk. Six points, whatever. 301 is kind of like you're targeting big bulls. And I have hunted all terrains. I've hunted the from Roosevelts to Idaho, thick country to, you know. Now I hunt mostly eastern Montana, pretty open stuff and so open country, you know, you just don't have all the options. It takes a lot more days because there's not a lot you can do in the middle of the day. Glass maybe. So most of my days are just sitting on my thumbs like just. Yeah, you get mornings deemings because you're. It's very different because I'm not trying to kill any six point at this, at this stage. And so I would say it's very different. But yeah, so I don't, I don't spend a lot of time unless I have a targetable once I have a target bowl. Which actually in retrospect probably ends up being more sitting on your thumbs like just waiting for the right situation, the right wind, whatever. But if I was searching, say I hunted, I don't know, Idaho and I wanted, I had to find elk. It would depend on if how many elk I had. And that's always the case is like how, how many oak do I have in play? How many options do I have right now? If I didn't have any options, I'd be, I would be checking or looking for something. I would be probably searching water, looking for sign generally speaking, unless it's like lots of water country and there is a lot of places like I think about western Montana, it's like man just stacked with water. But if I, I did an entire podcast on this and so I'll use the same example, I would be slipping into betting areas and, and calling just doing like cold setups, doing a lot of cow calling like 45 minute setups. So I would find north facing slopes with saddle or benches in them and I would slip on the top 90%, 85% and I would work along those ridges with the wind as best I could and I would basically set up every two, 300 yards and I would just do really, really soft cal setups. For 30 to an hour, 30, 60 minutes. And then I would probably move and then do the same thing, maybe go a little bit longer. But again, like, that's. If I think there's elk there. I guess I would probably do that as well. If I didn't, you know, if I thought maybe like, oh, this is just a good spot. I don't have to necessarily see elk for that to be the exercise, but that's a good midday tactic. If. If water's abundant and it's just not a factor, which is often the case, then I would be doing blind, essentially blind setups. And there, again, I'm like, if I do this in really good areas a hundred times, I think it's unreasonable that I wouldn't call in an elk. So, like, how many setups can I get in those 10 days, you know? Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. Statistics, right?

Yeah, it's kind of statistics. It's like, you know, like, what is the. What is the amount of inputs it's going to take? Yeah, yeah. To keep finding out? Yeah. I don't know. Any other questions like, what. What stumps you? And when you're. When you're thinking about elk hunting.

What about. What about hunting in groups? What are some tips for that? Because I guess when I've hunted with buddies, we haven't really formally set up game plans as to who's doing what. And so we're just kind of walking through the woods together and probably making way too much noise and we're calling and listening, you know. But I don't know, what are your tips for people who, you know, are in groups of two or three?

Yeah.

What should they do? What should they do? And what should they not be doing?

This is a great question, and I am the complete wrong person to ask because I virtually hunt by myself 99.9 time. But I actually have some thoughts on that. I think groups can be good. And this is kind of a recent thing. I had this conversation, and it kind of spurred this thought. So if I break elk hunting into, let's just say, four phases, which, like, phase two is finding elk and phase three is getting close to elk, then phase two is far more productive with people, and phase three is far less productive, to a degree, with people. So if I were to say, like, okay, you, me, and Joe, we go to a new unit, I like going back to the same concept. Like, how do we split up and cover more ground? Like, it's just to cover more ground. Like, we should all independently. There's no reason until we Find out the hunt, we should be together. Like, that's a moral support thing. And so, in my opinion, like, the only logical explanation. Now, there's a whole bunch of illogical explanations we could dive into, but, like, the only logical one is that we split up, we devise a strategy around how we're going to cover this unit, like, how we search for the keys, right? So let's go use the key analogy again. Like, if I lost my keys, should we all be walking around, following me around, looking for the keys? No, we should all split up into different rooms, right? And be like, let's look for the keys. Now, if the truck is broken down and we all have to, like, work together to solve that problem, that's different, right? Like, that's getting close to elk. But, like, for as far as searching, like, let's split up the first two days. Here's the plan you're going to execute. Here's the area. Here's the area I'm going to go to. And here's the area Joe's going to get to. And, like, let's just cover ground, guys, until we. Let's all link back up, share notes, see what we've learned, those type of things. Right now, once we find elk, like, okay, hey, Joe is going to go off by himself and keep searching, and you and I are going to work in on this herd and see what we can do. Right? And there's, like, various tactics, like, we could dive into. Like, what's the best tactic for solo hunter versus, you know, two hunters? I really don't think there's a reason to have three. I can think of one gameplay where I would do three, and that. That gameplay would be like, me and Joe sit up on the hill and we keep bugling because. And I would use this in a scenario where the elk doesn't want to come in or, you know, like, I just can't. Every time I get closely balanced, like, he takes his cows and runs, a. A plan, a scheme you can use in that situation is I forget who he is. But me and Joe are going to sit up on the hill and we're gonna. We're gonna keep bugling at each other as if we are fighting or we're like, you know, getting each other excited. And you're gonna slip in on a bull and try. Try to get close. I mean, that's the only scenario where I think three people are useful. You know, everyone likes to go in, have one caller and two shooters. I just don't like. It's a Lot more coordinated effort. And I just don't, I don't see it like, I don't see a reason to do that. Like I would rather have Joe out looking for new elk or his own elk or like whatever it may be. And then you and I, you know, work in a team. I think it like, I really do think when you talk about backpacking, like that just makes zero sense to me with three people. Because the inherent problem say you and I backpack it, we go 10 miles in and now we're limited to a 5 mile radius around that spot. We could just hunt that in a like one day, two days. We're gonna know or not know. We're probably gonna screw it up within three and three guys are gonna screw that up within a half a day. Like there's no problem. And so like, I mean granted there's this like entire like fun aspect of like, do you want to go camping with your buddy? Yeah, you could do that in July too. So I like, I don't know. That's what I'm like. I like for me, the only reason to have someone with me is to help pack out. And I have that been in that scenario where it's great to have a friend back out. But like to me, like, it's not gonna benefit me. I'm gonna get half at bats. Like I'm gonna have half the opportunities if I have one person with me, you know, and to me I've just made decisions differently. Like I, I work really well solo. I do things differently when I'm guiding or if I'm like with somebody. And so like if I just make decisions on me, I get 100 of the @ bats. Maybe that's a selfish version, but like it just, it just works out that way. So like you take a 10 day hunt, man, I would struggle to kill an elk on 10 days and you cut that in half. I'm like, I'm just not going to be successful. Which it is what it is. Like if you and I want to go on a camping trip or something, like, you know, like a hunting trip and it's about camaraderie or those things. Like I totally understand. And I'm like, I'm not trying to like diss anyone who does that because you there are great experiences with, you know, hunting with your dad, hunting with your brother, like whatever it may be. Yeah, I think, I don't know, I struggle with that because when I boil it down, I'm like, it just doesn't math. I don't know what's your thought?

You know, I've, I've hunted by myself probably three or four of the last five years, and I've come to really like it. I think decisions are way easier to make on where you're going for this particular day or in the moment where we're going south or north on this ridge. And I, I just like that. But there's also the appeal of the camaraderie and the fun and cracking jokes. The problem is it's so much harder to be quiet, you know, so there's. It comes at a cost and you make a valid point. It's like, yeah, why don't you do that in July?

Yeah. Or rifle hunting. Like, I, I generally hunt with someone like during rifle season that seems, you know, I don't know, for some reason that makes sense in my head. Whereas, like archery, I just need every at bat I can get.

Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, I think. But like, covering ground, man, like, when I think about, like some of the tougher hunts I've been on where, you know, trying to find a needle in a haystack, having a team is huge. Like, I've been on those hunts now and I see why, you know, the mossbacks or the A3s, like, they have teams of people because, like, what they're looking for takes that. Like, no single human could do that. Like, it takes so much effort, you know what I mean? And so to have 10 guys exuding that much effort, like, you're just going to find it. And so like, what is the scaled down version of that? Of, yeah. And so like, I always think, like, when you really start thinking at elk hunting at a 301 level, we're like, I have to find the biggest bull in this unit. It, it takes so much effort, but it's the exact same. Like, how do we just scale that down to like a single man or a team of two? A team of three. And like, how do we scale that down into, you know, just the same version, but like, now we're just gonna kill the first six point that walks by. Seems really easy. Right? And then if, like now if we're just gonna kill the first elk that comes by, like, okay, like, I think it's the same concept And I think 301 hunting has taught me a lot about how to just kill a six point, but like very much the same, all the way, top down of like how to just kill an elk. I think it's the same principles and I think that's actually a mistake people make is like when you have a cow tag or a spike tag, you know, like, there's levels to this, but, like, you go into it, and you're trying to hunt it differently. And my advice would be like, man, just find the herd, because all the elk are following the herd anyway. You know, the spikes are following them. The rag horns are following them. So if I went out looking for a rag horn, I would just do things very differently. And what I found over years of looking for the biggest herd bowls is that all the elk are just following him, either because he's following, you know, the cows. And. And so if I just look for the cows, the. The herd, I can kind of, like, work backwards from there. But, like, raghorns will just get in my way all the time. And so when people are like, man, I just want to kill a raghorn, I'm like, well, then don't hunt it any differently. Just hunt it at a 301 level just to whatever you're willing to put in, how much effort you're willing to put in.

Yeah, Yeah. I found every year is a little bit different with my businesses that I have. Like, sometimes I have more time, and sometimes I have less time. Like, I've been super busy the first half of this year, and, like, I barely shot my bow more than probably three or four times all 20, 25. Every time I do it, I'm like, well, it's shooting better. It's shooting fine. But, like, investing the time, like, I really need to start doing some serious E scouting for the fall. And anyway, it's just a battle of priorities, right?

It is a battle of priorities. And, like, I. I love this conversation because to me, the best thing you can possibly do to become a better elk hunter is figure out how to hunt more days. Like, that's it. It's simple. And just going from 10 days to 8 days or 8 days to 10 days, they mess that up anyway. Adding a couple days, it, like, changes everything. And it's kind of compounding, too. Cause, like, every day is com. You're getting compounded. You're getting compounding knowledge, right? So, like, gosh, I think about in the days, only had 7 days to go hunt something, and it's like you just barely learn it. And everything you learned that day, like, helps the next day, helps the next day. And there's a little bit of just, you know, luck is just the, you know, being at the right place at the right time. And if we can be in really good places for enough time, like, it'll. It'll figure itself out, right? Like, we can just find luck. And I. If you're self employed, I think the best thing you can do is like, how do. How do I hunt every day this season? Or, you know, how do I work from camp?

Right.

Like, I, I get why people are like, man, I just want to check out and not have service. But I tell you what, Starlink has allowed me to hunt a lot more days because I can, like, work those middays this entire year. Like, and this probably sounds bad to a lot of people, but, like, I, I got more work done during elk season than normal because I was like, hunting mornings and evenings. So if it gets, you know, if it gets me out there, even if it means instead of five whole days, I get 10 mornings and evening or 10 sets of mornings and evenings, man, I think I take the latter. So, like, you know, how do you find a way to hunt more? How do you. How do you find a way to get more days and going back to your priorities? Question. What if that's. What, what if it was mandatory? Like, what if for whatever reason, you had to take those 10 days off funding? Like, you'd find a way.

Sure.

And, like, the business problems are always gonna be there. Like, they'll be there when you get back.

Yep, yep, Very true.

You know, one of my good friends, he told me that, I remember 2011, we were going on a moose hunt in Alaska and he had his own business, and, man, I was stressed about going. Like, there's just, you know, so many things. And he is like, don't worry. All those problems will be there when you get back too. I was like, yeah, you're probably right.

Life goes on for sure.

Yeah. Like, businesses tend to, like, inflate to the level that we let them, which is like, you know, if we, if we let it consume us, like, for sure you'll never go hunting. But you get one, you can only get one September every year, and you only get so many Septembers in life.

Like, very true.

I'm just all about, how do I, how do I prioritize that? How do I build my life around that? And then, yeah, make the most of it, you know, try to put more time in those days.

When you were still living in Oregon, how long was the archery elk season? How long did that.

Still a month. So it turned. I think this year it starts the 28th, and it'll go to roughly the 28th. So it's a month long season.

That's one of my. That's one of my issues is here In Washington, it's like 10 or 11 days during archery season. And this year with me hunting during muzzle loader, it's even shorter. It's seven days, so.

Well, here's your. Here's a great excuse. I don't. Does Oregon still have an over the counter. Forget about now. The west side does for sure. You know, like now you're not gonna hunt October. Like, you could take a week and go hunt Oregon for a week, go hunt Roseville's down there. And I mean, like, very achievable. I like, don't know what your schedule is or time wise, but yeah, it's definitely achievable. And then I always liked Washington. I actually had the same thoughts in when I was hunting Oregon, I actually scouted that some Washington stuff that was like that muzzleloader because it opens like 1st of October and I was like, oh, that's perfect. It's after. Or it's after Oregon, after Idaho and then I could go up there. Yeah, I think I only had it like one year though. I still. Yeah, I would for sure. Personally could not wait till October to elkhont. So for what it's worth. And yeah, I think you'll find that it's a pretty tough season.

Okay.

Yeah. So, like, I would, I would hate for you to put all your eggs in that basket and then it's. It could be. I don't know where you're going, but it's like, could be high pressure, definitely. You know, like, likely it's gonna be high pressure, low, you know, elk talking and things. I mean, you're not the only one that's like figured out like there should be elk bugling, but then maybe not. Um, yeah, I think there can be good hunts then. I also think it's very different. Like I, I get into a lot of elk in Montana in first week October and rut is still going pretty well. I don't think I would lean on that in Oregon, Washington as heavily. I think it'd be. You know, you're really putting your eggs kind of in that basket that might be right over and like, it's so dependent on the year.

Right.

Like you can put all your eggs in that basket and it, I don't wanna call it like a weather hunt, but it's like, it's kind of like a weather hunt. Like you may get some rut, you may not. And so like, how do you, how do you hedge your bet and say like, okay, I'm gonna take five days, go to Oregon if you know the, the early water, the early October thing falls through, it's fine. At least I had, you know, half my time in Oregon.

Sure. Yeah.

Yeah.

Definitely some good strategies to consider for the next couple years. How to get more days in the field, multiple states, you know.

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I appreciate it and I'm stoked on your product if anybody wants to check it out. Wild meatgear.com right?

Correct. Wild meat gear dot com. Yep.

Yeah. Get yourself a portable walk in cooler.

We also have a stamp kit for if you know you're cutting and wrapping your own packages of meat. It's this clever little. It's like a dating stamp that you had at the library when you're a kid where you can dial different dates. Only this has 12 different species, 12 different cuts of meat. Meat. And the date and the ink we have is a real special kind of ink that works on plastic. So if you use vacuum sealer, whatever, it works and it works on paper. So.

Interesting.

Clearly know what's in your freezer, your wife will appreciate it.

Yeah. And I don't have to write 10 elk steaks 10,000 times on my vacuum bags or whatever.

I always hated that. That's the last thing I would do at the end of a long day of butchering. And my handwriting lighting was not good to begin with.

So I'll look at, I'll look at my freezer. Sometimes I'm like, I don't even know what that says. I guess we're eating that tonight.

History meat. Yeah.

Well, Jason, thanks so much for jumping on. We'll put links in the show notes. Best of luck this year. Hopefully. Hopefully. Fingers crossed. Get it done. Yep.

Thanks, Cody. Appreciate it. Thanks, man.

Alrighty, guys. Thanks for tuning into the show. If you like this episode episode, do us a huge favor and share it with one of your hunting buddies. Also, if you want a free hunt planner, be sure to go check the link in the show notes. It's 100 free. You can download our hunt planning tool which is a great resource for kind of keeping track of all of your hunts, your hunt plans, your points, all those things. Pretty great resource. Go check it out links in the show notes or you can check our website www.elkhunt201.com.