Old-School Skills & Modern-Day Mountain Hunting with Cade Cole

Foreign to the Hunt west podcast, here's.

Your host, Jaden Bales.

What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hunt west podcast. This is your host, Jaden Bales, and I'm so excited to bring you this week's episode. This week, we have on Cade Cole. Cade Cole has been a woodsman since he was a young kid. He's been a hunter and a guide for a long time, and we get to talk about a whole bunch of fun topics, including his woodcraft, marksmanship skills, things that he's seeing guys are doing right and wrong when they come out to hunt elk and sheep and deer and any of the other species that he guides. So I'm really excited to bring you this episode. If you don't follow him on Instagram and you're on Instagram or Facebook, for that matter, he's a very good follow. He talks about a lot of practical skills, and once you get the algorithm working right and he's showing you how to shoot, how to get in position quickly, how to look for animals, how to be a better woodsman, it's really valuable stuff. So you got to go give him a follow. And if you haven't checked out his YouTube channel, you better do that. Search Cade Cole wherever you're wanting to look him up, whether it's on social media or on YouTube, and you'll find him. The YouTube video of his elk hunt.

Last year is just freaking awesome.

He does it primitive, doesn't bring any food or water, and goes and kills a bull during rifle season with his trad bow. So without further ado, this is the episode of Cade Cole, previous alone contestant, elk hunt guide, sheep hunt guide, and just overall awesome dude with some great woodsmanship skills that I'm excited to share with you today.

Have you got, like, a volume on this that I can.

Yeah, turn up.

Turn me up a little bit.

All right, how about that? Little more out of maxed.

Okay, that. That's all right.

All right. Cool, dude.

Yeah.

The crazy thing is I use AI. Oh, there we go. I turned both of us up here.

Okay.

I use this, like, AI deal to help edit the podcast, and it makes like I can record in the worst conditions, and it works out really good.

Really?

It is insane, the stuff that is out there, man.

I, I, I struggled with that pretty bad because my microphone got screwed up on my elk hunt last year.

Oh, yeah.

Audio was just, like, so garbled, and I was just like, I mean, you don't know until you get home and you've got 60 hours of just, like, terrible audio.

Dude, I want to ask you about that elk hunt. Okay. So instead of doing an intro, we're just going to roll right into it. Mr. Cade Cole. How are you this afternoon? And thank you for having me.

Thanks for coming out, man. I'm doing really good. I'm excited.

I'm excited, too, because I think in a lot of ways, like, I. I try to teach people more about, like, the craft of hunting than necessarily all the gadgets and stuff. I just did a podcast last week about, like, kill kits, which was very gadget.

I saw that. It was really good.

Oh, thank you, man. But I was looking around the. Like, the people that I've kind of, like, seen around on the Internet and stuff, and I was like, who is just down with woodcraft and field craft? And I think you're, like, the Jeremiah Johnson of our. Of our generation.

That's cool, man. Well, that's, like, a huge compliment. I really appreciate that.

Well, how did you end up, like, how did you end up doing that? How'd you end up building all those skills? Because, like, you're talking about hunting in jeans. You're hunting with, like, a scout scope on your rifle and doing things that are, like, a lot more old school than most people who are our age.

Yeah. You know, it's funny because, like, so when I started out guiding hunts, I was. I was super poor. I mean, I was living out of my truck. I didn't have anything. I couldn't afford any. Any nice gear.

Yeah.

And, you know, I just did everything, like, as best as I could. And I just, you know, I had wrangler blue jeans and leather chinks and just kind of, like, you know, rocked it in the pearl snap and the cheap Goodwill jackets or whatever I could get. And, yeah, it's really interesting because I did it for long enough trying to make a living, just trying to, you know, carve my little niche out in the hunting world. And once I finally made enough money where I could afford the nice stuff, I was just kind of like, man, I don't. I don't really need it.

Yeah.

Like, this is kind of who I am, and I'm comfortable in what I got.

Yeah.

And so I just kind of kept running it that way. And then more people over the years kind of just started to, like, question me about it. And the more that people questioned me about it, the more I kind of leaned back into it.

Yeah.

And then now it's almost like a shtick, you know, that, like, yeah, I'm the guy that Guys in blue jeans.

Yeah.

You know, you're like, tell me I can't watch me.

Yeah, exactly. I had a guy that I ran into in the mountains last week actually, that he was like, I don't know your name. He's like, but I know you're the guy that hunts in blue jeans. Oh, really? I was like, ah, that's really funny.

That is cool, dude. So when in those early days, you know when you're just trying to figure things out and you're just using what you had, did you, did you screw things up ever and end up in like any hairy situations? Like, dude, I have all the best high speed shit right now and I still end up with like, okay, this could go south if we don't get our butts out to the truck or whatever, you know?

Yeah.

You know, it's funny because like when I was a kid I was obsessed with some mountain men and all that kind of knowledge and skill base and everything. And I really like to hunt, but there's a weird like void area in between, like primitive skills, like type people and like the hunting community.

Yeah.

And I've always tried to be a bridge for that because most hunters that you meet, they just, they don't know a ton about like edible plant life or vegetation or how to build friction fires and things like that.

Yeah.

And then most of the people that are, that are really versed in that kind of stuff, they just, they have no interest in hunting because like they're out mushroom hunting and weaving wicker baskets.

Or whatever, you know, it's like, yeah, for sure.

Those two hobbies are not that far apart, but for some reason there's like a giant void in the middle where they don't overlap. And so I never really was super worried about like the, the, you know, lifeline aspect of it because even when I was just a teenager, I really dove into friction fire and how to, you know, utilize, you know, all the, the natural vegetation I have and all that. And so, yeah, I don't, I don't know. I've always been really comfortable in the woods just as a baseline, just living.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and that's part of the thing that I hope doesn't get lost is like, if everybody's got their own camper trailer, like I rolled up with a camp trailer, don't get me wrong.

Yeah.

But if everyone's got their own camp trailer and a side by side and all the high speed gear, you don't need to know that stuff. But people can still get themselves in a Bad way, you know?

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

So last year, you did. I. I would say it's probably the most primitive hunt that I've seen. With your elk hunt, what was. What's the setup like to. To, like, how did that elk hunt go? But, like, how did you think about. I'm just going to do this the most bare bones as possible.

So this was an idea that. That elk hunt is funny because I've had probably a dozen or so hunters over the years reach out to me after watching it on YouTube and being like, man, I remember, like, 10 years ago, you talking about doing that hunt.

Okay.

Because I've been planning that. I've been planning the hunt that I did last year for literally my entire adult life. And the idea was that I always thought it was pretty admirable the way the natives got around and, you know, like, all right, you got a horse with a very primitive saddle, and, like, you don't have a water bottle or nice anything. You know, all the gear that we just. We just assume is, like, the bare minimum, that was, like, super high tech for them, right?

Yeah.

So I always thought it'd be cool to do a hunt like that. And then once I kind of started getting involved in the social media stuff and making videos and all that, I'm like, I could do something like this and film it, and I think people would find a lot of value out of it.

Yeah.

So I just tried to make it basically how it would have been. I didn't have a water bottle. I didn't have. I mean, no tools. I had an elk hide that I tanned myself to sleep under.

Yeah.

A sweater, pair of pants and my base layers, and then one warm wool jacket, my recurve. And I think I had six arrows and a knife.

And you didn't even. Did you use your Al Qaeda as a saddle or.

No, I did have a. I did have a pad that I put. I put a bareback pad on my horse just because she's kind of withery. And I was worried about soaring her.

Huh.

But she did okay. But, man, I ended up doing, like 70 miles, all said and done.

Of riding?

Yeah, of riding. And I was like, man, I didn't walk right for like, a week after that.

Okay. Okay. So it. On one end, it was like. It was badass. You. This is the spoiler is you kill the bowl with your recurve doing this, which was just awesome. But what were the things, like, what were the prices you had to pay while you were doing it? And then also, like, when you said you can't. Couldn't walk for a week, right?

Yeah. I mean, you know, it was really hard to show through the footage, but totally 100%, the hardest part of that hunt was a lack of water.

Okay.

Because if you don't have a water bottle or a container of any kind, I couldn't carry water. And so when you're mountain hunting, even though there was times where I was a thousand yards from water, but I was trying to kill an elk, so I just. I just couldn't drink water. So I went, like, 30 hours or something without water while I was doing that, and I finally had to give up on a stalk because I was. I can't do this anymore. Like, I have to go down. And I just went down and gorged myself on water until I was, like, sick. And then you walk, like, 200 yards, and you're like, man, I'm thirsty again.

Oh, wow.

But you just have to. You can only drink where you. Where you're at. You know, where you have the water. So that was. That was totally the biggest challenge, I think that. And the. And the fire.

And the fire. Because you were just doing all friction fire.

Yeah, I was doing all friction fire. And, like, the first night, I just. You know, my tinder was just so slightly damp, I guess, and I just could not get it to light. And it's. So. It's one of those things that friction fire is crazy, because if. If you don't. If you've never tried it, it could seem so easy. And it's like. And if you have the right conditions, it's kind of easy, but it's also so hard at the same time.

Yeah.

I mean, it just takes so much more preparation.

Yeah.

So, like, what were you using for a tinder? Was it just. Did you pack something in your pocket or.

You know, there's all that, like, especially in the Pacific Northwest, but out here throughout the Rocky Mountains, it's pretty prevalent. You see that old man's beard? Like. Yeah, that, like, green stuff. When it turns dark, it's pretty good tender. And so I was able to find it in trees, the dead stuff. And that's what I was trying to use, that and grass. But the grass I had was, like, pretty damp.

Yeah.

It wasn't going. Because you got some snow on that, right?

Yeah. On the way out. I did.

The way out.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's funny you mentioned old man's beard, because I was just camping with my girlfriend. Like, we just won overnight in our little camper trailer, and she Wanted to get, like a workshop on building fires, and we went and found just. Old man's beard. Yeah, exactly what you're talking about. And I was like, I, I don't know how many people. Yeah. Would know to, to go pull that down because, like, it freaking works.

Oh, yeah.

Like you said, it's an old man, old timey knowledge, you know?

Yeah.

Are you, it's like on that trip, you didn't bring any food, right?

No.

What were you, what were you eating on, man?

I killed, I killed two squirrels and I was kind of, I kind of ate on them.

With your bow going.

Yeah, with my recurve. I brought, I brought two, I think I brought two or three blunt tips that I had in my little coyote quiver that I brought and I, Yeah. And I was able to kill them. And so it was just a, you know, basically a snack to help me.

To hold you over.

Yeah. To hold me over. Yeah. But I ended up, I mean, I feasted on that oak like, the, the first night there.

Oh, dude, I bet there wasn't anything that tasted so good.

Oh, man. Yeah, it's the best. It's the best.

What'd you start with?

Tenderloins.

Tenderloins? Yep.

Tenderloins. On the heart.

Yeah.

Dude, I think the heart is underrated. Oh, let's say right here.

So underrated. So underrated. I, I, I, I think that, like, I don't know. I, I can't believe people don't, like, go crazy about it.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, it should be like, it should be referred to like, the tenderloins are.

I think so too. And it's like, maybe it was just. Because even when my grandpa would just like, kill a steer or whatever from the, the farm or we would shoot a deer, we always ate heart and liver first night.

Oh, yeah.

That was just, like, the expectation.

Yeah.

Yeah, that one's, that one's a good one. So when you're up there, though, did you have any, like, berries or other, like, mushrooms that you could find or.

No, everything was pretty, like, it was, it was already late October, so everything is pretty dead. There was some currents that were like, they were, I mean, they were just like, dried up, though.

It's not a raisin.

Yeah, just like, little current raisins.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's cool. Yeah. One of my favorite things when we're hunting, either just, just myself or like, with a client, is to reach over and grab a, A rose hip or a rose bud.

Oh, yeah.

And, like, just get that little fruit leather out of the offside of it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that.

That one's one, like in late October. I feel like you can still kind of count.

Yeah, still kind of works sometimes up here. There's pockets where. Where you find raspberries. Still hanging on pretty late.

Yeah.

Dude, that's sweet. So did you filter any of the water while you're up there, or you.

Want to bring a filter or anything? I've actually. It's funny because this is probably bad advice. I hate saying this stuff on podcast because I don't want to, but I haven't filtered water in, like a decade. Yeah, like, I don't filter water.

Do you think you have just, like, the bugs or. Yeah, you can build.

You can build an immunity to Guardia, and a lot of people don't know that. Yeah, but it's all. It's all like a parts per million and exposure thing. Like, if you're not exposed to dirty water and then you drink a bunch of it, like, you're going to get sick.

Right.

But if you have a constant exposure to the dirty water, I mean, that's how we survived. Right. For thousands of years. Years.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Dude, that sounds sketchy though. I would still. The nice thing about giardia, though, I guess, is, like, it usually hits like a week later. Right? So.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've had it a couple of times, but every time that I had it, it. It like, got a little less bad.

Oh, okay. So this is. This is good. See, this isn't. This isn't great advice, but, like, at least when you get it, like, you've gotten it a couple times, like, you're still, like you said, building the immunity, but you're paying the price.

Yeah, yeah. The first time, like, wrecks you really, you know, but. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then, like, have you ever had it?

No, I've never had it.

Oh, it's miserable.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, the first time you ever had it, it's like, miserable.

How long are you down for?

Oh, I think I was down for, like, probably four or five days that I was like, actually down. And then, you know, a couple days after that, it was real super hot. Mostly dehydration, but yeah, I mean, just like stomach cramps and it's. It's. It's not fun.

Did that happen during hunting season?

Yeah.

So did you have to hunters that you're still guiding?

Yeah, I did, but it was actually that the first time that I ever got it was doing archery, elk hunts and so. But I. But I lucked out that we, we had already killed one bull pretty early, and then we ended up the guy wounded a bull and then we just tried to track that bull. So it was like, not the end of the world that I was trying to track this wounded bull with a hunter while I was shitting myself to death. So it's not like, it's not like I needed to be, you know, you.

Didn'T need to be like 110% pound in the.

Yeah, I was like, I was just trying to find that wounded bull.

Yeah.

That's crazy, man. When you see somebody rolling into camp, I'm kind of stealing a, a play from my friend James, James Nash's book. He just did a green, it was like a green light. Red light. When a hunter runs into camp, like, what do you think about as, like, they come in with this thing? You're like, green light. This is a good hunter. Red light. They come in and you're like, oh, my God, this is going to be brutal. What is like the number one red light or like the red flag when someone comes into camp that you're like, I don't think they have any woodsmanship. Hmm.

That's a really tough one for the woodsmanship aspect.

Oh, just in general. Just like, they're just not prepared.

Probably my biggest, probably my biggest, like, red flag, like red light that I have just for. Because I do a lot of horseback hunts are extremely long rifles. Okay. So you guys show up with like a 26 inch, like 300 Remington Ultra Mag with like a 9 inch can on it. I'm always like, this guy's never been on a, like, horseback alcohol before. That's like one of my biggest. Okay, this guy's gonna, we're gonna have to like, start from square one.

Oh, that's a good, that's a good tell. So for those who don't know, you've got an awesome Instagram and a lot of the content you talk about is marksmanship and riflemanship. Ship the rifle you use like your go to. It's like, it's a handy little guy. What is it?

Yeah, so I have a, I have a couple, I'm like, really into the scout rifle stuff and I have a couple, but I keep everything with a 16 inch barrel.

16 barrel?

16 inch barrel, no can or anything. I always run a thread protector and then usually I cut my length to pull down to like 12 inches, 12 and a half. So everything's pretty small. Like, I, I, every rifle I have is under 3 foot total.

Jeez.

Yeah.

Is that just because it's a lot easier on horses or easier to, to manage when your hands like what's the.

It'S a, it's a lot of both. The, the main thing is that when I put it on a horse, I don't have to worry about my barrel dangling down and getting hung up on brush and stuff. And then if I want to put it, you know, I carry everything, scramble carry, which is like sling over the neck and shoulder, barrel down. And my barrel doesn't hang below my knee. So when I'm walking, you're pretty well never going to have your feet higher than your knee even when you're going uphill.

So hopefully not anyway. Yeah, exactly.

But you know what I'm saying, like. Yeah, yeah. So, so you think about it, by having that barrel like that, you're just ensuring that it never drags the ground and it just becomes really handy to manipulate to get it out if you need to put it inside your backpack. I mean a rifle that long, you can actually put it inside most frame backpacks.

Oh, that's a good point.

Yeah, yeah.

You're using like a Kafaru most of the time, right? Like.

Yeah.

Frame deal.

Yep.

Yeah, that's good, Good point. What, like, what calibers are you liking to run?

I'm a 308 guy. I'm like 308 for life. I, I, I do have a couple six, five Creedmoors as well.

Yeah.

But I just very much, a very much a believer in shot placement over energy and velocity and all that. And you know, trying to practice the craft of hunting and not necessarily the craft of long range shooting. I feel like, I don't get me wrong, I like to shoot distance. I find it really enjoyable. But when it comes down to hunting for me, it's like everything's about getting close and I have a lot of faith that, you know, lower recoil, everybody shoots better with lower recoil.

Yeah.

You know, rifles that are chambered in, in cheap bullets like that, like.308, it's, it's really affordable for people to practice. The more you practice, the better you're going to be. Yeah, it just kind of snowballs into this like advantageous aspect of, of being in something like 308 or 65 Creedmoor or 243 or, you know.

Yeah.

So that way you end up as a good rifleman, not just a good shooter.

Exactly, exactly. And I, it's like that's another one of those red light things for me is when I see guys and they've got like, like a, you know like a 3338 Weatherby or something. And I'm like, this guy does not shoot a lot unless he's a millionaire because like it's like $7 every time he pulls the trigger. And the average guy is just not doing that. I mean, you know, it's just a fact of, of life, right? That if it costs, if your gun hurts to shoot physically or monetarily, like you're gonna practice with it less.

Dude, that is so funny because the only client, and he's a good shot, but the only client that I've ever had that had a.338 rum has a lot of money and spends a lot of time at like marksmanship schools getting the perfect load. Like he loves like spending good money on, on getting his rifle. I was like, perfect. You nailed it.

Yeah.

So with your, like your personal hunting, like, obviously 308's not the, the biggest long range killer in the, on the planet. It can, you know, if you know how to shoot it, it, it can be fine. But what's your like, goal range when you're getting ready to kill something?

I try my best to kill everything within bow range.

I like.

So like, I like to hunt everything with a rifle in bow range. And, and really where a lot of that spawns from is just I've guided so many archery elk hunts over the years and you know, you just, you do not recover the majority of archery elk that you kill. I don't care like how it goes, like good shots, bad shots, bad luck, whatever, you know, I mean, it's just how it goes. Like archery elk is so I've had so many guys shoot elk and I've done it myself where you shoot them, you think it's great, and then you end up looking for a bull for three days and it's like, it's just hunting. That's our tree elk hunting. Right. So for me, when I'm done with the season and I'm like done with all of that up and down roller coaster of emotion and I got to put some meat in the freezer for myself, there's nothing better than shooting an elk with a rifle at 40 yards.

Yeah.

Because I did all the things that I would have done that were so much fun for bow hunting and then I just shoot him in the neck and he dies right there.

Yeah.

And it's like I don't, I don't have all the stress of going to look for him or waiting for blood or any of that. I had the same super fun stalk and now he's just dead.

Dude, that's. That's a really good point. It's funny you bring that up too, because I've, like, I, I would say dabbled in the long range stuff where I have the equipment to shoot long range, but it, I like getting close too. And last week in Alaska, I. These, we bump some deer at really close range. And then a shooter buck, like, gets up 3, 330 yards away. And my instinct was, oh, I've got the scope to dial. And I like, drop down and I dial my scope, get ready to shoot this deer. He takes off again. I didn't get a shot at the deer. And I was like, dang it. Like, we were kind of bummed. And I was like, well, let's just hunt this as if we're basically archery hunters. And we, because that was at the top of the ridge and we just slowly started picking our way down this like, high alpine kind of like basin. And I came over the A knob and there's a buck, like 100, 110 yards. And I'm like, that same thought. You're like, sweet. I can just watch this thing. Boom, flop. And I get down and I shoot and the buck doesn't move. And I'm like, oh, must be just like a passer, you know, I shoot him again, rack into the shell. Boom, buck, buck stands there and like, takes a couple steps and I'm like, that doesn't look like a wounded buck. I better shoot him again.

Boom.

And then all of a sudden I realized, like, dude, I'm missing.

Never zero stopped it.

I never rolled that back to zero stop. And I was like, oh, my God. So drop that clip, throw another clip in and then fix my zero. Stop. And then I got that buck.

But awesome, awesome.

But it was just a classic example of everything that you talk about where it's like, man, when you're just planning to hunt, like, without making compensation, things go a lot better.

Yeah, I think that, you know, that's like what a lot of my content I try to revolve around. And it's, it's odd because it's so against the grain nowadays because everybody. I don't know, I don't know what it is. I think it's like the act of dialing and windage and shooting distance and all these things and like all these complications. I think that they're like, they're satisfying to people in like a cool test their skill type of way. But it, it, it's just, you don't. It's you can't account for adrenaline and the kind of like, fog that you get in under those high stress situations like that in training. I mean, you, you can exercise a ton and shoot a lot and practice and all those things, but there's nothing quite like the stress of hunting.

Right.

So it's like the simpler that your optic setup is, the simpler that your rifle is like, the simpler that your plan of execution is, everything just becomes infinitely easier under pressure.

Yeah.

You know, and I think that that's ultimately, like, that's my, my goal to kind of spread that message to. Because I, I have a lot of. I have a lot of people that reach out to me that are, you know, late onset hunters or, you know, or kids that, you know, their parents didn't do it or whatever. And they, you know, asking me for advice. I'm like, hey, man, don't be intimidated about how having to have the nicest, most expensive, most complicated optic or this or that. Like, go get a SWFA fixed six or something.

Yeah.

And just like zero up for 200 and don't shoot past 250 or three, you know, and like, just go have a good time. Like, you don't have to overthink it or overdo it. Dude, that's. We need more of that.

I think so too. I'm actually, I'm helping teach like a women's adult hunter course tomorrow. And that is, I think, a good reminder as I go into that to just like drive that home. Because I think everyone, like you said, you just get into this rat race. And a question I have though is, do you think that that rat race, like shooting farther, having the high, highest speed gear, et cetera, et cetera, do you think that's more because guys, like, think it's cool and want to do it, or do you think it's more of like a competition against other hunters and they're like, if other hunters have the tech, then I have to have the tech.

Yeah, I mean, I think that. So I think that it's a marketing thing and, and it's an interesting concept to think about, but throughout the. The past two decades or whatever, hunting has really, really brought about a ton of money on the textile side of the industry and on the technology side of industry. I mean, there's constantly new chamberings coming out, new rifles, semi custom this, semi custom that, crazy expensive optics. I mean, $200 pairs of pants that are like hunting, you know what I'm saying? Like that thing that, that didn't exist in the 80s.

No, right.

I mean, it was like, it's, it was like a ridiculous thought back then. So I think that that's part of the marketing of it is. I think it's a, it's a culmination of everything that you just mentioned. I think that there's this like, thing that it's like anything else. If you drive a Mercedes, you're better than the guy with like a Ford Taurus or whatever, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So like if you have the nicest rifle and you can shoot further and you've got this nicer scope and you've got all this different things, like, it like becomes your little bit of materialistic pursuit.

Yeah.

And so there's a lot of materialism involved in hunting now. Maybe over like the, you know, like the philosophy of hunting.

Right.

And I think that that's where all that comes from. I think it's both though. Everybody has a side by side and a laser range finder and a rifle that shoots a thousand yards. But like elk are still elk, so they haven't, they haven't advanced. So the least we could do is like give them a fair shot.

Yeah.

And then, and be realistic with ourselves and say, hey, you know, I can afford a $3,000 rifle. I can afford, you know, a $3,000 optic. I can afford all these things, but I'm not capable of shooting at a mule deer Buck at 800 yards. And so I'm not going to do it. And I'm going to hold myself responsible regardless of what I can afford. On the technology side of things, do.

I think it's super helpful to have an archery background and be a rifle hunter though, to 100%. Those guys who like roll out and just have arch, have rifle hunted any, any of the short range weapons, whether it's archery or muzzleloader too, like that gives you the confidence. You're like, oh, if I see a elk or a deer at 900 yards, I know I can get closer. It's not a, it's not a factor.

Right, right.

I know that's a huge difference. When you're, when you're thinking about the guys that you've guided and like your experiences, what do you think separates the, the people who roll in and you're like, yeah, this guy's a killer. And those who roll in, you're like, this is going to be some work.

Oh man, it's all about, it's all about that personality type and, and like confidence. And so this is something that I've actually, I've been working on A field craft book for a while now, and I wanted to have it done by now, but it'll probably be published this winter. But this is something I dive into in the book is that throughout my years I've, I've, I've encountered a lot of guys that were super physically fit and super capable of doing, you know, whatever we needed to do to get it done, but they weren't mentally capable. Right. Like, they just weren't mentally tough enough or, or for whatever reason they weren't flexible enough or they just didn't want to. And like, you can't give somebody, you can't force somebody to want to. So, you know, you might, I find, I might find a 200 inch buck on the side of this mountain, but it's going to be, you know, just a really tough hike to get there. And I know this guy's physically fit, but if I ask him and he like doesn't want to do it, you can't force him. Right, because then it's gonna like ruin his hunt. It's gonna, it makes the whole experience bad, whatever. But it works the opposite way too. Where I've had guys that were not very physically fit, especially like on the sheep hunting side. I've had guys that were like, you know, past their prime, old age, do their tag late, do whatever, you know, or they're just like, not, you know, but they're like, okay, I trust you. And like, I'm excited. Let's do it. And you almost kill these guys, but they push themselves to that point because they have the want to.

Yeah.

So I think that that, like, that mental aspect is so important because you can have all the physical fitness in the world and none of the want to and you're just not going to succeed.

Dude, that's, that's huge. I just had, Speaking of green flags, I just had a text conversation with a guy I'm guiding for Archery elk this year. And I was, we were talking about footwear or whatever. I just want to make sure he was good to go. And we talked about cactus. And he was like, man, I, I was talking about how I, I like to go barefoot when I probably shouldn't sometimes. And I was like, yeah, there's a lot of cactus. I was pulling spines out of my feet, you know, in March after the September elk hunt out there. And he goes, oh, I know all about that. He's like, I got a bunch of cactus spines in my knee when I was antelope hunting a couple years ago. And I was like, but did you get the antelope. And all he did was sent back a photo of a dead antelope. And I was like, this guy is going to be fine.

Good to go.

Like, this guy's good to go.

He's got the want to.

Exactly. Yeah, dude. And that's so hard. I don't know how you could teach that. You just have to.

You can. It's just inside you.

Yeah.

Yep.

Or just built by doing hard stuff over and over and over again.

Right, right.

So on that same vein, what, you know, outside of your primitive elk hunt that was pretty extreme. What are some of like the hardest hunts? And like, how. How do you think guys can be better prepared for them?

You know, I think that the, the biggest thing that guys can do is focus on all the little things that surround the hunt itself. We just finished up a week of elk seminars here, me and Cliff Gray together. And one of the things that I had the guys go over a ton and we practiced for, for like a couple hours is just taking your backpack off. And it's little things like that. Like, like guys, you know, they might have a lot of range time and, or they might be super physically fit and they're hiking on the treadmill every day, but they, but they don't subconsciously know where their buckles are.

Yeah.

On their backpack. And it's like things like that, that, that like really end up being what make or break hunts. It's like, hey, we got to get down and shoot right now. And you're struggling to get your backpack off or whatever. And then on the other side of things, like, I think that on the gear aspect, so many guys are just like not sure about their sleep system or their boots or all those things or rain gear, whatever. It's like, man, the best thing you can do for yourself is to go out and be a little bit uncomfortable and like try to be uncomfortable in your gear so that you know what your limit is so you know what to pack for your hunt. That and you don't end up packing around 30 extra pounds of crap in your backpack or vice versa, where you're like just miserable, you know, and quit.

Yeah, dude, that's so huge. I'm gonna throw my brother under the bus a little bit cuz he was in Alaska with us and we got like 3 inches of rain overnight and we were in a floorless tent because we wanted the stove to dry stuff out.

Uhhuh.

But of course, as a result of the tent getting flooded, our wood got like soaked. We got a little pond in there, my buddy Jeff and my brother Tyler, they're basically using their sleeping pads as rafts in this dang thing. I was on the high ground, I was fine, and I noticed my brother was like, he was visibly kind of like frustrated. Right. He was like, oh my God, like this is an A hunt ender. And I think Jeff and I, who'd spent more time in that stuff, we were kind of like, well, guess at some point today we got to go down to the truck because we're not going to dry out, but like, we've got our sleeping bags that are going to keep us warm, like et cetera, et cetera. And I think having that confidence, like, like you said, after you've been uncomfortable, to know this isn't the end of the world. Right. You can always just work through it. That's a huge piece of it. Right?

Right, yeah. Just being able to say, like, oh, you know, this sucks, but I'll survive.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. The other thing that you talk a lot about is preparing guys with their riflemanship and like, we kind of alluded to that. At what level do you think that plays into the. To what you're. The preparedness that you're talking about?

Yeah, I think it's, I mean, it's so frustrating for me because once I got started in the social media world and trying to like help people shoot better and things like that, inevitably you get the naysayers. Right?

Yeah.

And it's a crazy concept because like, I think that everybody should be able to shoot their rifle standing. If you can't comfortably shoot your rifle offhand at 100 yards and hit an 8 inch target 100 yards offhand, man, like, you gotta, you gotta go back and you gotta be able to do that because that, that is like, okay, you have a 400 inch bull that he's runs out in a little shooting lane in front of you and he's at like 80 yards. It has happened to countless people over the years. And what happens is it, it goes two ways. Most of the time it turns into a story about this bull that ran out and you saw it and then it was gone before you could shoot it.

Right.

But if you're prepared, you end up being the guy that just smoked this monster bull. Right?

Yeah.

And so I think that the whole idea of, of being a capable rifleman is very skewed nowadays with the technology. So many guys are worried about shooting laser tight, you know, just crazy tight groups with these high tech rifles from belly down prone, which like, it just doesn't happen like it. That's not an opportunity that you have in the mountains. And so I try to push guys to think about that. Being a good rifleman starts way before the shot, right? Like, we got to set up, we got to be comfortable and getting our backpack off quickly. Knowing where our shooting positions are, like knowing where your safety is on your rifle, knowing where your flip caps are. I mean, there's no reason that you can't sit in your living room and open your flip caps. If you've got scope caps or. Or a knee print, cover, whatever, take that thing off a thousand times while you're, you know, watching tv, you're doing whatever. I mean, dry firing your rifle, like I said, taking the backpack off, using your bino harness as a rear rest. I mean, using all these things. Like, you don't have to be spending money on rounds down range. You don't need to be making noise. You don't need to be doing all these things to be prepared and capable that it's second nature, that, okay, there's an animal on any. Get down on a knee or whatever and shoot off my pack. Well, I know instinctively. Here's my buckles, Packs off, set the rifle up, take the caps off, do whatever, you know, I mean, all those little micro fundamentals, when we put them together, and you've practiced them all a bunch of times, that's when you have that success. It's way more than sitting at a bench and shooting at a paper target over and over and over again and never diversifying.

Yeah, dude, that's so good. My dad was a bit of a gunslinger, and he would carry his rifle on his right side, barrel up. But I remember that dude could get that damn rifle flipped around and on his shoulder so fast. And I remember as a little kid, I just wanted to be a quick draw like that. Yeah. Did you have someone that, like, would teach you this stuff or that you learned from?

Hey, everybody. Sorry to interrupt the podcast, but I wanted to make sure that while I have your attention, you know that if you want help planning and hunt for the 2025 season, we've got a couple of windows that you can still plan a Hunt west service with me. If you'd like to either have a session where we just sit down and riff on the different ways to approach a unit, or you want to go with a full hunt plan where I give you a battle plan for an entire week of hunting for deer, elk, or any of these other hunts you might have going on this fall. Let me know you can always hit me up with an email. Jaden huntwest. And if you want to learn more information about the different services, you can always go to huntwestplanning.com okay, back to the episode.

You're listening to the Hunt west podcast. I did. I did. You know, like, my whole family was growing up. Like, I grew up in Central Texas. We were all, you know, like, pretty, pretty poor, just like. But you, man, you can kill a lot of deer down there. Everybody could get like seven tags or something, you know, I mean, so we lived on deer meat. And so my dad, my grandpa, my uncle, I mean, basically everybody in my family was all about shooting deer. And it wasn't about trophy hunting. It was about putting meat in the freezer. So it was like speed. Speed was everything. Because all that Central Texas, you know, the timber is like, it's kind of.

Is it timber or is it more scrubby?

Like, it's a, it's all that, like, mesquite stuff. So the trees are kind of tall, but they're all open at the bottom, you know, I mean, it's like you can see little ways, but. And so it's tough. Then there's some oak brush and stuff, so.

Okay.

And the deer are just. Man, they're sharp down there.

Right.

You know, so they basically were like these kind of quick draw guys.

Like.

Yeah, it was all, it was all like just still hunting and get your gun up quick, you know? And so I caught onto that as a kid real quick.

That's cool. Did you guys do any family deer drives?

We didn't, we didn't do a bunch of drives really. For the most part, I kind of, I was kind of just always when I was young, still hunting with my dad, just watching him. And then as I got older, I kind of started doing it. Yeah, but we hunted with, we hunted hogs with dogs a lot. So it was like deer hunting was like, deer hunting was just putting meat in the freezer. And like, hunting hogs was fun.

No, that makes sense, dude. Yeah, I, I listen, growing up, we did a lot of deer drives. So my, my mom's dad, that grandpa, he did a lot of deer drives. And then my dad and my dad's family did a lot of still hunting. And both of those are like, you're shooting standing every damn time, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm still like, now that I've gotten to this place, I went through the whole shooting prone, shooting off of a tripod or whatever phase. Now I'm like, I gotta kill a buck. Dark Timber. Like, slowly moving. I think it's one of the coolest things.

Yeah.

I think it's super fun. Right. It's like. It's a way more. It's like a way more involved activity.

Yeah.

For me, anyways. I feel like I'm more involved when I'm. I'm bipedal and I'm shooting something. It sees me and I see it. And it's like when they're 300 yards away, bedded, and I lay down and I set up, it's like. It's almost. Almost kind of feels like I'm not giving them a good chance.

Yeah.

They have no idea. Yeah. Or they don't have a chance to know. There's a. There's an amount of. There's an amount of skill, though, in doing that and getting close without them knowing you there. That's really rewarding. Right. But at the same time, you know, how much are you just a shooter at that point, you know, versus hunting?

It's a.

It's a fine. There's a weird dichotomy with that.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I just kept track. Maybe you should do this, too, so I can add more to my data. But I kept track. Like, I've been on 76 successful hunts, like me, my friends, family, and clients, and 32% of those basically rounds up to 33% were prone, which means two thirds of them were anything but, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sitting, standing, kneeling, whatever the case is. So just to, you know, illustrate your point, man, like, when you're just hunting and you're hunting just, like, using woodsmanship skills, it's just not the most important piece of the puzzle.

Yeah, no, it's. I mean, I think that people put way too much emphasis into, like, just the time pulling the trigger and not all the other stuff that encompasses the hunt.

Yeah, right.

Especially with the rifle.

Especially. So I've. I've talked to a lot of people this year who are doing, like, an October elk hunt. And kind of step one, I usually get them on a glassing knob or talk about getting. Finding good glass and knobs and looking at. But then. Then you go like, okay, well, what do you do with the middle of the day? And I'm like, God, you're gonna have to pound timber, buddy. Like, you know, after they've bedded down, like, you got to get in there, mix it up with them, or you're moving spots, like, whatever the case. But most of the time, it's like middle of the day pounding timber. What's your kind of Game plan. Like, how do you think about still hunting for, like, elk in October?

You know, I do it with pretty good success. I try. When I'm guiding hunts, I try not to, like, push into the timber too much just because most guys just don't have the skill to be able to. To monopolize on those short windows of opportunity. So for me, for a lot of. A lot of points, I'll try to bed animals and then maybe even get in where I can see them and then back off and try to say, okay, like, we'll make a move and kind of pivot off of what they do.

And so you'll hang out till the evening when they move in the.

Yeah, usually that's kind of. Usually my game plan on it.

Yeah.

And I've had a lot of success with that. But I mean, yeah, it's tough to say all the way around. Like, every. Every place is different. Like, this year I'll be guiding all kinds and Colorado, Wyoming, and Idaho. So it's like every. All three of those places could be totally different, you know?

Yeah, that's a good point. So, okay, so if. Let's just assume it's not a guided guy and it's you or it's somebody, you know that's listening who wants to be good at still hunting. What do you think are, like, the biggest things that they should pay attention to? Like, how do they get good at it?

Oh, so number one, the, like, my biggest, like, tactic for success is always map my steps out. So I'll map, you know, I'll find a landmark, like a tree or something. Say, I'm going to move to that tree. I think it'll take 15 steps for me to get to that tree. And there's like, a down log right here that I've got to make it over, and like, a loud stick right there. So, like, I want to plan out that probably step five or six, I'm going to be right there. I got to be careful. But I try to never look at the ground while I'm moving. So I'm always, like, very slowly examining my environment. Okay. Like, I take a step. I kind of, you know, take in all the information that I've got. Just like the deer do. Make another step, take in all that information. And I'm always looking up. So, like, every time that I'm moving, I'm always scanning the environment. And then once I get to my, you know, my mapped location, like, okay, this is where I'm going to stop. I'm gonna gather myself again. Plan my steps back out, you know, figure out where I'm looking. Maybe check your onyx, like there's a little meadow over here, whatever, that I could open up and see. So I think that, that being able to kind of like tactically plan out your movement that's not even a stalk is super helpful because by knowing where you're going then you see that movement that, you know, maybe you would have taken three extra steps if you were looking at the ground and now you've been busted.

Yeah.

But instead because you were looking up, you catch that flicker of a tail or that little bit of antler moving in the trees or something like that. And that's where you kind of you, you gain that moment of opportunity.

Dude, that's so good. I, I screwed it up last year and I'm excited. I'm actually going back to the same area 1st of September. But last year I, I wanted to pound dark timber and mornings and evenings though I was glassing and I found this buck and I'm like glassed him up and I was like, dude, I don't. He's a fine deer. He's probably a four or five year old deer. Fine deer. I was like, but I want to kill him like still hunting, you know. And so I passed on him. And then that next morning it was 70 mile an hour winds. I had to get to another hunt and I was like, well, I'll just go to the lee side of this mountain and where there's less wind and I'll still hunt in there. So I guess like to your point, I didn't think about it as this way, but I was like, okay, map in and out. Right then you, Then I look in, I'm like, oh, there's a little bench that runs here. It's not just one solid thing. Like I'm going to walk that bench. And then as I'd go, I'd like, like what you were saying, I would like pick a tree or something. And at one point I picked this down log and I was like, I'm going to stop there. And I get to this down log and there's like a depression. So the bench turned into a bowl back in there and I was like, oh, this is good. So I'm like sitting there looking around. I'm just like really? I spent a lot of time standing there looking around. I'm like there's something in here. I even gave like a couple whistles out and I was like trying to get something to stand up and then nothing. Stood up and I was like, huh. Must just be me being weird, right? So me being the smart guy I am, I set my rifle against the tree, take a leak, pick my rifle up, turn around, throw my backpack on, take two steps quick, and right underneath that down log, two bucks blow up. One of them was the one I was going for.

Oh, man.

Right there underneath you, huh?

Right, like 10 yards away. Yeah, they were there the whole damn time, man.

I. It's been my experience over the years that those mature mule deer bucks are so good at that. Have you noticed that? I mean, I feel like they will lay down quicker than they'll jump.

Yeah.

I've got, I've got this friend of mine, he's been a big mule deer mentor for me who grew up a lot in the southwest corner of the state. So there's a lot of aspens and kind of like buck brush and stuff. And he said when he was a kid they were just kind of, you know, mobbed through all this stuff. And when he got older, he went back and started glassing and like watching deer. And he said they vividly remember, like the aha moment was where they were watching these guys push an aspen pocket. And this buck squirts out the aspen pocket, goes out into the open, embeds down, and the guys just keep pushing the aspen pocket and walk right by this deer. And as the deer gets closer, he lays his head down in the sage brush and they just walked right by that sucker.

I watched, I watched two guys over like southwest corner of the state here in Wyoming last year. I watched the same thing. Oh, really? I watched a pretty nice buck, probably about 160 inch buck, and he, he was bedded up against a piece of sagebrush. And I could see the two guys going up the hill and he laid all the way down till his horns were like in the dirt on the left side. And then just the right side of his antlers were like in the sage brush. And they walked, I bet they walked 50 yards from him. They made it up over the hill and they bounced on down.

That's crazy.

It's crazy how good they get at it.

Yeah.

Do you think that the trick to combat that is to just go slower?

Man, I don't, I don't know. I feel like the. It's such a. I feel like honestly that those bucks, if you haven't seen them, you probably just not going to see them, you know, I don't know because I can't think of very many. I mean, how do you know? How do you know how many bucks like that you've walked past, dude, you have no evidence to know that you did. But I've glassed them doing it.

Yeah.

You know, so it's. It's an interesting thing and make you wonder how many big mule deer bucks have you walked past in your life that just laid down?

That's a great point. It also, and it makes me like, you know, I guess maybe a counterpoint to the still hunting piece. It makes me want to walk with my eyes more, you know?

Right.

Because it's like, at least if they don't know that you're right there. And maybe you got to make like we were talking about, maybe you do have to make a big loop and get on top of them, get the wind. Right. And sneak in so into 100 yards. But you know where they are with your rifle.

Right.

But yeah, walking with your eyes kind of, I think is almost the only way to combat that.

Yeah, it kind of is. I mean, and it works. I feel like it works real well with elk because they've always got that point of hesitation, you know, where the cows, you know, even if they see you, the cow's kind of like, what is that? And the bull, you know, bulls are always dumb and they want to see what the cow is looking at. You know, this kind of opens up those little windows.

So on the archery side, because you've done so much archery elk hunting in the middle of the day, are you. Are you doing the same thing trying to get a bull or cow worked up in the, in the bedding, like almost like a pseudo still hunt calling combo, or are you staying out of that stuff?

You know, I've. The most success that I've had for archery elk hunting across the board, like, the, the most consistent tactic that I've used is if I can find, if I can find, I should back it up. Okay, so these bulls, they're breeding at night, they're fighting at night. Like. Well, you know, most of these, like, herd bulls that people talk about killing, they're not the actual herd bull. It just happens to be the bullet they saw. Those hurt bulls are so stressed out. Right. And so. And I know I've killed. I know I've killed two, at least two legit big herd bulls, you know, with. With our tree hunters. And, and the most successful way that I've. The most successful tactic that I've had has been waiting for those bulls to bed in the middle of the day. And I try to find the trajectory of the cows because there's always those like six cows, three of them, whatever. There's always this ones that wants to wander.

Yeah.

And there's always some satellite bull cruising around, and he, like, he just wants to peel them off. So I do think that the middle of the day is great if I can bed that bull in the middle of the day. And dark timber works even better. And try to get out in front of those meandering cows. And I try to get out in front and just wait for them. Hopefully they kind of drag past me. I think about it like bass fishing. You like to bass fish?

I've bass fish before.

I feel like when you're bass fishing, you try to. Like I'm trying to throw it out there and then drag it past, Right?

Yeah.

And so I think about the cows. Like, I'm bass fishing. The. Like, the cows are my lure, and I got them out past and I want to drag them. I want to drag them past me. So if I can get where those cows, they've got a certain trajectory and I can get out in front of it. What happens is that bull, he's like, up and down, but he just wants to rest. Eventually those cows, they get a little bit too far away, and he's like, all right, that's enough. And he gets up and he's gonna go to push him back. And when he goes back to push him back. A lot of times, if I can ever get to a point where I'm in between the rest of the cows and him, I can light up a bugle. And they just. They don't even think about it.

They're just roaring back because it pisses them off.

They're like, oh, that guy snuck in on my cows while I was over here wrangling. And it's like I've had. I've had probably. I would probably like 70 success ratio on that. I mean, every time that I've been able to do that.

Yeah.

But there's a little bit of luck involved. You just got to put yourself in a position where the wind works and the cows are moving towards you.

Okay, dude, that makes a lot of sense. So obviously, like, in order to betable like that, you got to be in some sparse timber or some open country. Are you.

Are.

Do you key in on, like old burns or anything so you can watch stuff much?

Yeah, I do. I like hunting burn areas. And then I. I like. I really like hunting, especially September. I really like hunting some of those. Some of those little tight drainages with like some aspen to stay cool and maybe a little spring or something like that. And if I can get any kind of high ground above that, where I can look in. I mean, it's crazy how. Yeah, I feel like. I mean, I know you know what I'm talking about for everybody. Listen, that, that, that maybe is new to it. It's amazing how many elk can cram into an aspen grove, isn't it?

Yeah.

I mean, it's like a ton of elk in a tiny little aspen grove. And it's like if you can, if you can close the distance to get in there, they always work so well. And then usually in the evening time you get those thermals that are pretty consistent in those cold springs.

It's like, man sucked it down.

Good recipe. Yeah, but I like burns for that too. You know that you can find those out, be able to look at them from multiple perspectives and then figure out where they're trending.

Oh, that makes sense. And it always seems like even in the big burns, even a hop, a quote unquote hot burn, they'll find a little pocket that's still green, right?

Yeah.

Always go find that little unburnt drainage. Just almost like the, the aspen example that you gave. But they'll be just live timber.

Right, Right. Yeah, that like, little bit, little patch or whatever. And this, it's super effective for archery hunting.

Right?

Because you can't get lost. You're like, okay, well, those like 15 green trees, that's where the elk were 20 minutes ago.

Yeah, dude, that's good. You mentioned it. So I gotta ask, have you and your hunter ever like for sure gotten lost?

No, I'm trying to think. I've had. I've had plenty of hunters that were like, just like crazy lost. But one time, one time I got caught in a blizzard alpine. And on this really tall mountain, it's like 12 something. Yeah, it's like 12, four or something. And it's kind of ice cream cone shaped on top. It's just like a really nice round and it's a cliff wall on like two sides of like a triangle that come down to it. And there's like a. There's a little path. And I did have with that guy, we had to like stop and just weather out a blizzard Alpine for like two hours. Because I told him, I was like, I don't know, like, we have to stop where we're at because I don't.

Know, we could walk off a cliff.

Yeah, you could just walk off the cliff and it's like so round that you could just keep on going. Like the top side of it, you could just keep on going in a circle for, you know, however long it took. And so. But it finally cleared out for us and we ended up getting off of that. But that's probably the. That's probably the most intense, like, lost moment I've ever had. And it was more intense because I knew I wasn't lost. I was like, man, I know that, like, right here, between 400, 500 yards, there is a. A path to get down, but we're.

We don't know if we're gonna hit it, right?

Yeah.

We can't find it. Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah, that'd be nerve wracking. Especially when you've got somebody else with.

You and you're just like, oh, yeah. And you know, once you get horses on something like that, it's like hard to turn around, like eight horses, you know?

Yeah, that would make a big difference. The. I spend a ton of time hiking in and out in the dark. And I remember this one. It was 2019. I had this spot that it was. It was like three miles back and I wanted to day hunt it just because I did. I. It wasn't a big backcountry area, but I was like, I'll just sprint in there getting ahead of the elk as they're coming down. And dude, I remember it was opening day 2019. I was so freaking pumped. I got my little red light on my headlamp and I'm just trucking. And after like an hour or something, I look up, I'm like, this doesn't seem right. And I look at my onyx and I've veered like a half mile totally in the wrong direction. And I was like, oh, so put me. Then I had to run so I didn't get late, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I. Like I was saying I do a lot of moving at night and obviously having onx is like super helpful. Are you. Are you riding horses a lot at night or hiking in and out at night? Like, what's your kind of program?

I. I do a lot of, like, stuff in the dark, honestly. I mean, just trying to certain areas and I mean especially anymore. I mean, opening day in. Seems like any western state nowadays. Like, if you're hunting opening day, you better be moving in the dark or you should just be at home.

Yeah.

Because it's like, it's impossible to get anywhere and they're not be just like 30 little pumpkins on the ridge out there already beat you, you know?

Yeah.

But, yeah, I do a lot of. I do a Lot of moving in the dark. And the horses, you know, obviously it's kind of nice because once they've been somewhere once, you can trust them. Oh. Or at least mine. You know, a lot of mine are really good about their bearings, and if they've been on a trail, I'm pretty cool about it. But it's hard. It's hard as a person. Even with onyx, man, it's hard to. You gotta, like, go back and check and be like, oh, actually, I.

We're on the right path, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've got a guy who is renting horses in Colorado, and he. He has horses back home. He's a horseman, but using these other guys as mountain horses. And I was telling him, like, man, you got to ride in the dark. But then I didn't really have a whole lot of. I've been around a lot of horses, but I don't hunt off of them very often. And I was like, man, I don't have any other. Like, I don't have any good bits of wisdom For a guy who's renting horses and riding in the dark. Is there anything that someone like that should be thinking about? Is there going in?

Definitely. The main thing for a lot of people is knowing that their white headlamp blinds them.

You know, the horses.

Yeah. If you got your white headlamp on, they can't see you very well because they have that tapatum, that mirror in the back of their eye, you know, just like deer and elk and everything. So what happens is, like, they're already trying to double up on light while they're moving up the trail. And so when you have that white line, it's. It's blinding them because they're. It's dark everywhere else, and they're trying to reflect and all those things. And so I try to tell people not to use the white light. The red or the green, obviously, is fine. A lot of times I just don't ride with a light at all, and I'm moving in the dark. But knowing where you're going is. Is important. Like, if you're planning on riding your horse somewhere into the dark, you better. If you've done it in the daytime, the. The horses are pretty sharp. If you've gone and you've done it in the daytime, there's a good chance that they're going to remember the trail and they're going to be safe. But, I mean, they make mistakes too.

Yeah.

So it's. It's, you know, it's a gamble. To ride one in on the dark on a steep cliff wall that you never been on before, you know, So, I mean, the safety there is like definitely a gray area for people's confidence versus the quality of the horse, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

Because you don't know what these horses can or can't do.

Yeah, yeah.

So for the most part, are you like. For instance, people ask me all the time, are you using a red light? Are you using a white light? Hiking around? And I kind of tell them, like, I mean, I. Same thing you just said. It's like, I actually prefer no light. Obviously, if it's super, super dark, I run like a red light. Are you doing the same thing?

Basically, yeah. I'd like, try to never use my headlamp if I can, just to save battery. And then, I mean, I feel like. I feel like maybe you gain a tolerance to it, but it seems like a lot of guides that I know just don't run a headlamp unless it's super dark. Yeah, I feel like I get along just fine and I can kind of. I mean, it's amazing how many animals you can pick out still, you know, even in that, like, dark dark that you see them out in the meadow where you're like, oh man, I gotta back up. We'll just wait here until daylight. Or if you had your light on, you probably just blow them out.

Yeah.

Or not be able to see them because your eyes aren't adjusting.

Exactly.

Yeah, I killed. I killed my mule deer last year by glass him up in the moonlight. Oh yeah, exactly like that.

Yeah.

I've killed a lot of elk that way.

Really?

Yeah. I bet like, I bet probably half a dozen or so of the elk that I've killed have been bulls that I've found like in the. In the twilight out on meadows, moving around, you know, and you're like, man, I know there's going to be a bull in there, so we'll just wait here.

Yeah, I know a lot of people try to basically try to hunt on a new moon, like and. But for some reason, man, I end up spending a ton of time under full moons. But it is nice for getting around in the dark because like on a full moon, man, I don't. Heck, you could almost butcher without it.

Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah.

That's cool. We're coming upon an hour here and I was just kind of curious, you know, as you go into this 20, 25 season, I mean, we're like knocking on this door. What are you most excited about? This Year either to learn for yourself or to hunt or, like, you know, things that you're pumped about.

I got a man. It's an interesting. It's a really interesting year this year. I'm like. I'm kind of, like, conflicted about it because in the past, I've done a lot more elk hunting than. Than anything. It's almost been, like, primarily elk hunting and then sheep. And this is the first year in a long time I haven't had a sheep hunter, and I don't have that many elk to God. I got to do some deer hunts and mountain goat hunts, and I've got to do some more fall bear hunts and stuff. I mean, so I'm really diverse this year, but it's like. It's like bittersweet because I'm like, man, I kind of. Kind of. I have this weird thing where I want to kill 150 bulls before I'm, like, too old to do it. Like, I just want to guide 150 successful, like, bullock hunts. Like, that's my.

What's that average out to? Did you.

I don't. I don't even know.

I guess, yeah, it depends on when you stop. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

I found it. I'm at 41 right now. I'm 41 at 30 years old. So, like, if I can get. I feel like I can make that happen. Right. Because I didn't actually start guiding elkons like, 10 years ago. So, you know, I mean, it's like, I got time. 40 bulls in 10 years, so four year. Yeah. So I'd be like, yeah, I'll be able to. Maybe I can get it done.

But.

But probably the thing I'm the most excited about this year is I've got a. I've got a really cool concept for my hunt film I'm going to.

Do this year is your personal hunt.

For my personal hunt. Okay. And so what happened was I had a guy approach me at church, and he's an older gentleman, and he was like, hey, I watch your videos on a computer. And I was like, oh, yeah? Like, which ones? And he was like, you know, the, like the hunting movie things? And I was like, oh, yeah, like my old kind. He's like, man, he's like, when I was, you know, when I was younger, he's like, I hunted like that. But he's like, I haven't even been on a horse in 10 years. You know, I just can't do it anymore. And the light bulb went off and I was like, man, I want to Try to do a film, because I did my elk hunt, my primitive elk hunt. Right, right. Like, I want to do a film that's in that theme. And so my grandpa, he. He would go hunt New Mexico and Colorado with his brother. They would drive up from Texas, go hunt New Mexico and Colorado when they were, you know, when they were in their 20s and 30s.

Yeah.

And anyways, so I got an interview with him about all the things they did, why it mattered, like, what was special about hunting with his brother and the time period and all the gear of the time. This is like, you know, 1960s, 1970s, all the gear that they use and everything. And so my hunt film this year will be all period, correct. Like 1960.

Nice.

Which is a cool thing because it's like nobody's done it. Right. And I think it's cool because a lot of these guys are still. They're all. They're all still alive. Yeah, well, some are still alive, but they can't hunt anymore. And so they have all these memories of, like, the way that they used to do it, and then you see it nowadays, and the game has changed. So I thought it'd be really cool to bring that back and do a film that's kind of like a tribute to, like, the way it was.

Yeah, I like that. I'm excited for that.

I think it'll be cool.

It'll be really cool.

We.

I do a lot of work with Wyoming Wild Sheep foundation, and we were talking about, like, how can we. How can we reach people on social media, but also still acknowledge, like, the. Most of the board isn't retired, basically.

Yeah.

And I keep thinking I want to do, like, go get their old hunting stories and photos and do, like, old hunting, like, storytelling. And that's right down the same vein. And I was like, I think our generation needs more of that, for sure.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's what. It's funny because, like, that's going to be. The name of the film is, like, the Way it Ought to Be.

Oh, nice.

Yeah. Because it's just like. I mean, that's. Yeah, that's the way. The way it was. It was like the peak. It was like the peak of hunting. Right.

It was for a number of people out there, the number of game. Well, for deer, there's elk, more elk now, obviously, but, like, the ease of access to get into the mountains, like.

Yep, it was like the pinnacle. Just easy enough to get in there. Vehicles were just reliable enough. Still had, I mean, the trails. The forest was in better condition than it ever was. And ever will be.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah.

That's a great. That's a great point, man. That's exciting. I'm excited to see you put that together.

I think it's going to be really cool.

Cool. When do you think that'll probably roll around?

Probably November, December. I'll have it out.

Okay. Oh, so you're going to get it as soon as your hunt's done you.

Yeah, I'll turn it all edited turn.

Perfect. That's awesome. So if someone wants to go get some, like, real good marksmanship stuff and I'm putting words in your mouth, real good marksmanship skills and follow what you're doing, where can they kind of keep up with you?

Yeah, I. So I'm on Instagram as, like, Colin Kade Cole, which. Are you following me on Instagram, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. And then, like, it's weird, my Instagram and I post something. Like I posted something yesterday and it got like 3,000 views on Instagram, but it got like 2,200something thousand on Facebook. It's like, weird. Everything I post on Instagram, Instagram hates me. But anyway, so Instagram, I'm Colin Cade Cole. And then on Facebook, it's just Cade Cole.

What about your YouTube?

And then my YouTube is actually. I think it's the Roadhouse, but Cade Cole or something like that. I'm not very good at the social media stuff. I'm still figuring it out. I've had some luck with it, I guess.

Yeah, no, it's been. I think that the reason you've had luck with it, though, is because, like, what you're just putting out is just like, who you are, you know?

Yeah. Try to be authentic.

Authentic about it.

Yeah.

And people appreciate it. I do, too. So I appreciate it.

Yeah.

Well, thanks for doing this, man. It's been cool to come check out your cabin here and.

Yeah, like, glad that you came out. It was really cool to do it in person.

Yeah, I agree. I do so many of these things on Zoom. And I was like, man, I'm just going to be kind of driving through the area. Let's just swing by.

Yeah. I'm super glad you came back. You have to come by some other time with this without the headset.

No, dude, I'm sure we will here a little bit, but I've got 1, 2, 3, at least 3, if not 4 hunts where I'm driving by your place this fall, so.

Nice.

It'll be good.

Yeah.

We'll have to stay in touch.

Sounds good. All right, thanks, man. I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to the Hunt west podcast. If you like what you heard today.

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