Oregon Bull of a Lifetime | From Guide to Hunter with Eric Vanderzanden

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So it's just funny because I don't know, I don't know why antlers do this, but I mean, you know, some bulls will change drastically, some bulls don't. But whatever the case, an antler configuration for some reason is just my, one of my niches, you know, just. Anyway, I was glassing and I spotted an antler and I was like, man, that's. It's a white. I can tell it's a white. And I was like, but instantly I just had that feeling I had there. This bull, this is, we're going back five years. This bull had lived and shedded on this hillside. Same hillside for six years. He lived and died. He lived and died on public land. He went up to 380s and, and you know, he disappeared on us. Buddy of mine has multiple sets off of him. I chased him with, there was gov tags purchased for him. There was, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars thrown at this bull. And he lived it the entire test of time. And I spotted that antler from 2500 yards away and I could see bones underneath of it. And I thought, told my brother, I called him and I said, I found a bone pile in a shed antler. And I said, it's either ironic or a coincidence that they're at the same spot or I said, I don't want to say this now, but dude, it looks like a big seven. It looks like AC dc. And he's like, what are you talking about? He's, I sent him a picture. He goes, I can't even tell that's an antler. I'm like, so I got a different angle on it and lo and behold, just above that, there's another antler. And I'm like. And I look at it and it's another seven. And I'm like, something's, something's. And I kept picking my way down that ridge, that ladder ridge. And finally I just got 2/3 way down. I just said, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm so far down here. I'm just committed. I'm going for it. And so I went over there and I ended a chapter of like a 13 year chapter for a lot of people, like multiple people. It's funny because last couple days people have been calling me about it, boy. We called ACDC again. Chased him with gov tags, draw tags, archery tags, trail cameras. I don't know if you're friends with that Eastern Oregon Trail camera online. He. It's his. It's his Super Bowl Sunday bowl that he always. Anyway, I found his grave.

That's crazy, dude.

The crazy part about it is I can literally tell you exactly when he died because I chased him the fall of 19 with a gov tag. Chased him down into the canyon where he calls home. And he was going home for the winter and he shed an antler and died within 10ft.

That's crazy.

I picked up the other side of the antler that was laying in the bone pile. Whack. That whacked the horn on the. On the ground and it popped the other side off. No way. He died during his shedding of his antlers. He shedded one side. The other side was 10ft above him. The other side was in the bone pile and the antlers are there. So he died late February, early March of 2020.

That's crazy. And how. I mean, didn't find him until now. That's why.

Not only have I walked that hillside, I've glassed that hillside for the last five years. And I. I mean he was in a tight brushy draw and the sunlight was at my back two mornings ago and just happened.

The right place, right time. Just caught the angle.

100. It's far enough down the canyon. It greens up the. That's where the first part of the green up comes. So like your window of opportunity to actually glass down in that lower 150 yard, 200 yards is like. I mean it's. Two weeks from now, it'll be green.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? So it's like you have. You only had like a month to actually spot him.

No way.

For five years you only. That's your only opportunity to spot him.

That's crazy. They just was there and no one knew.

Yeah. And so I. Those are super cool because I know the guy that has like, literally he mounted a set of his sheds. Like the guy was infatuated with this bull and he disappeared. And we always called it, you know, it was. I don't know where he got the name AC dc but I don't know who gave him that. But that's why we call him for years. And I found his. I found his grave. But it was cool because, you know the Oregon law, you can't pick up deadhead.

Right.

And it was super cool because like I got over There. And I was worried. I'm like, man, if his. If it's just the fact that it's five, four, five years old, whatever that was, and they just broke. I can't get it. I can't pick it up. It doesn't matter. You know, I can't. It's can't. And it's legally shed. And I'm like, no way. Yeah. Dude. Not only to be able to close that. I mean, I think about that bull almost every year. Like, where did he go? You know? Like, I know he died. He bulls like 12 or 13 years old. I did take. I did grab a couple front lower teeth. Yeah.

I'd be super curious to see what he turns up. Man. I don't know.

It's so cool.

First and foremost, like just to kind of close a chapter. But like the fact that he died on public. On. On those big bulls where he chase a long time and everyone's chasing them, like it's kind of cool that they like disappear and like, like, oh, man, that's what happened to him.

The weirdest part is, is like I was actually sad.

Yeah.

Like, I mean, how can you be sad? Because it's like the guy, the. The bull lived and died on public land with every. The 21st century technology thrown at him. Money, you know, really. No. No limitation to wanting to kill that bull. And he lived. I mean, we from the collective information were 12, 13 years old.

Dude.

70. Like, there's top 370 pictures. Like, he's 370 plus from 2014 on. No way I'm talking. I mean, like, not only was it. I mean, he's.

Yeah, that's a stud bull, man.

Yeah. And to have his final set is pretty cool.

That's freaking awesome.

Anyway. Yeah, that's just. That happened two days ago.

Yeah, she did. Yeah, that.

Wow. Wow.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Well, how you been, man?

I mean, how do you want to kick into this? Because that's like. I mean, that's. That's kind of a funny because, you know, when you. When people. When we talk about this Big three, everybody's like, I mean, I get it every year. I'm sure you. You hear about it being the origination from Oregon whatnot. Which one? You know, Buenaja Mount Emily Walla Walla. Like I've said, probably. I'm even on this podcast that's a Ford Chevy Dodge. Conversation.

Yeah. Yeah.

Literally your bulk and live for 13 years in Mount Emily and live and die and be at the top of his game and you know, like, to say that they're to say, oh, no, it's shot out. Yeah, okay, dude. Yeah.

I mean, that's crazy. And then you. Yeah, we've talked about this, and, like, you know, you spend a ton of time in those units. And I actually called you because. Or text you because I wanted to jump on and get the story 88. And I think after you killed that bull, I was like, man, we got to do a podcast. And then when I saw it in Hunt and Fool, I was like, oh, we gotta. Gotta get the whole story. Gotta get the whole story here. So let's. Let's go back a little bit. I mean, you been putting in forever, right? Like, you basically said, I'm just gonna archery hunt. And for those who don't know, Oregon, it takes a.

The.

The three units.

He's talking about the big three. Take it, all the points, right? Like, it's.

It's.

You gotta put in your whole life. And so you kind of just basically said, I'm not gonna rifle. I'm gonna. I'm gonna archery hunt and keep just building points, building points. And a lot of people give up before they ever get there. I mean, it takes 20 plus points. And so, you know, you. Not only did you, like, arch your hunter of guiding those units, you're getting close. And, like, you know, you. You got in the weeds, dude. You, like, learn these units. You spend more time in those units. As much time as anyone, I should say.

And.

And so this is kind of the backstory to this bull. The big three units in Oregon, if. If you're not familiar, like, they produce really great bowls, and there's a handful of dudes, like, you've got to know these units. I know a lot of people that, like, draw this tag, think they're going to go in there and just shoot a. Even a 350 bowl without even, you know, like, it's a walk in the park. These are great units. There are some good bulls, but you gotta know. You gotta know the nooks and crannies of these units. And, like, you are one of the dudes who said, basically, I'm just gonna dedicate the next five years to knowing these units so that when I can draw, I'm gonna kill a giant.

Yeah, no, and there's.

Dude, I think the crazy part about this story is there's so much effing pressure when you draw that tag. It's like 20 years, like, you put in.

Let me tell you, it's completely numbing. Like, it is. It is. It is a Pressure or a, a feeling like I, I didn't expect like, you know, like you said, I mean being around the tag and even not only just being around a draw tag, but you know, having the pressure of a sixty or eighty thousand dollar tag that they're putting on your shoulders. You know, it's like when they buy that governor tag and yeah, you know, so I felt pressure about, you know, expectation and success, but nothing like I put on myself.

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Right?

I mean I, I mean it got out, the word got out. But I tried my darndest to like not really got it from a mountaintop just because it's like that target, that target and that highlight was going to get so much worse and I knew the pressure I was going to put on myself already.

Right.

And so just, you know, try to be quiet but eventually, you know, you tell one person, you might as well make it public. So have a couple mutual friends that we know that they just, they, it spreads like wildfire.

Totally, totally. So you, I mean you, you draw, you draw the tag. We didn't like we didn't have say where we draw you draw a tag, top three tag. And did you have a bowl picked out like you spend back to this part about like man, you spent so much time with governor's tags and guiding like some of the top, top brass of like hunting these areas. Did you have a bull that you're like this is the one that I.

Want before you I did not have when I. So we'll we'll clear it up a little bit. I did not actually have the full 100 draw points to get the tag. I had a gentleman call me and said he had over points. And this is, this, this is the side of the story that. No, no article. I will never write an article. It doesn't. The feeling. And honestly, to, to even talk about it, I might have to take a moment for myself, but I had a kite call me. And he was a friend, a friend of the, of the gentleman with the points. And he said, listen, I've got a really good friend of mine. This was like a month before the, the, the deadline to apply. And I had a guy call me and he said, I've got a gentleman that has 26 points. And he liked to do a, a scouting package and scouting packages, you know, somebody asked for information, you know, provide trail camera pictures or information just on best success rates and where to go and whatnot. And you know, of course I was interested, but at the same time, I don't. I'm very hesitant to get out of information. So my, my first ask was like, well, how many points does he have? He said, 26. And I said, okay, but non resident or resident? He said resident. And I was like, I'm like, wait a minute here. So you asking for a scouting package. I need three points. So what we did in, in the, in the, the underlining of it. His, in that same, that opening conversation that he called me, he said, my friend has terminal cancer and this is his final year to hunt. And it was just like, I'm a sucker. I'm a sucker for that part alone, right? So I told him, listen, I'm, I'm all ears no matter, no matter the outcome of this. But let. I said, I'm thinking about a situation where we could party together. I could give you the information that you want to have and to go have a good, fun, successful hunt and I'll go do my own thing, you know, and that will, that'll be. They'll be, you know, equals. Thought about it, thought really hard. I shed hunt more than probably. I mean as much as anybody up there, anybody that's local and whatnot. Thought about the antlers I'd picked up, thought about the bulls I had seen the year before and knew that there were some bulls of the potential of what I considered big and what I consider big. I mean it when we, when we talk about the years of build up, you know, my, my expectations when I was younger, I want to shoot 350 bull, you know, my dad had killed a 360 bull. And so then I was like, oh, 2009, he killed that 360 bull in Mill Creek watershed. And I was like, okay, I want to kill 360 bull. Dad killed 360 bull. I want to kill 360 bull. Thought it was cool. You know, it's. Once you get in the family, then my mom drew this tag up here and she shot a really nice bull. And we're like, okay. So, like the build up was getting there and well, my number was growing, like, the more knowledge and everything. Well, then you always hear about like these people that kill 380 bulls and stuff like that. And it's just like that dream is just like it's bigger than. It's bigger than words or a thought. You know, just. It's not an expectation. It's not. You can't. I mean, it's. It's idiotic in a way that, you know, well, so going into this, going into this decision, I was thinking about the bulls I'd picked up, thinking about the bulls that me and my buddies picked up, trail cameras, whatever. And just looking at potential there. Takes so much to grow, grow a big bowl. I mean, it's so much luck. So many stars have to align to grow that big of a bowl. And I, you know, a couple days before the, the application deadline, I just said, you know what? I like just with everything, you know, with the way that the state's being run, the tags are being given the native pressure, the wolves, everything, I just figured, you know what, like getting a tag early can be looked at in a couple different ways. But the way I looked at is an opportunity to get the tag that I desired, regardless of the outcome, and be able to move on into, you know, hunting some of these other places that maybe take one or two points that I've just never got to do. Just because of the building of the points, I've always had to hunt something that was almost a guarantee. Second choice, right? So I could get, if I could get my first for, you know, so I get my point made. The decision put in, got the tag and like I print off the tag and that's. I'm like, it really felt real.

Start to sink in.

Yeah, it really felt real then. And I mean, I had 20 some cameras going. I was. It was a very, very. It was a nuisance to me, my family, my summer, you know, like, it was obnoxious. I had buddies, you know, that knew that I had the tag that, that kind of dance around up there and spend some time. And I mean, during the summer I found some great bulls, you know, bulls that prior to the build up of the last several years would have been everything I dreamed of. Yeah, I've picked up shed some of these bulls. I knew what they scored, you know, score is funny thing because it'll. That, you know, later in the story it becomes more for real. But I don't know, I just. The scouting went through and I just did not see anything that just stood out to me, like all the homework and, And I didn't feel stressed in a way because I thought he was still there. I thought, oh, there's still a bull that's gonna just, you know, set out and. And then also just like when September hits, things go crazy, you know, if you don't land a camera in a bull's routine or like once they're. Once they're kind of in where they're going to be for the summer, if you don't find their water source, their bedding or their food, they're not going very far. Like the heat of, the heat of the days, they don't move like they're there until they shed their velvet. Then they, then they dispatch somewhere, you know, and then you gotta track them down again. So I knew that September was going to come and that's when a lot of things kind of. But September, you know, archery tags, August 1st, governor tags are now, you know, so the, so the pressures, you know, loading a little bit, but I don't know, I just. It felt again, it just felt numb. Didn't feel like, I don't know, it didn't feel like I thought it would. So then we come into September. You know, I've got bulls moving around, some really good bulls, some bulls that I considered to throw on that list of something that I would pursue. And one in particular. He had a big frame. He was really heavy, you know, without, without going into. He just had to look without, without even dissecting him. You can look at a bull and back. Yep.

Yeah.

Like there's a split second, you know.

Yep.

And there was one, There was one bull that I was like, man, that one. I would say, I. I mean, walking away from that would probably be harder than the thought of what if. Yeah, that is like the biggest balancing right there is like 100. You could scout, you could do all this homework and you could find the bull and shoot it day one. And if it isn't over and out of your dreams, you're gonna sit there for the next 18 days. Of that season and wonder what if. Yeah, that was like my juggling effect where it's like, do you shoot a bull that you're happy with but not thrilled and extraordinary about? Or do you gamble knowing that you'll still kill a pretty good bull in the end, but it might not be as big as that one you passed on opening day.

Right.

So that like, that whole aspect is. I don't.

It weighs on you, man.

Don't even ask me how to tolerate it because I don't. To anybody that has this level of. Of of desire to. To do that tag like, I did it. Like, I don't know how you're going to control it. Everybody's going to control it a different way. And I'm a very. I like, I just kind of climb under a rock, you know.

Does it change? Because like how many times you had that conversation with clients and now do you look at it differently?

Oh, I. Yeah, I think, I think the maturity in the. In just the actual years and more boots on the ground in the realization of reality and trying to. Unless and trying to tell people reality, not this. The rumor that goes around about these units. So. So that one bull, it was September and it was like the second week of September, archery hunting with my girlfriend. And I got, I mean, left field type thing. You know, A friend of mine that I actually guided up there, I got his wife up there sends me a picture and it was the bull dead. And I was like, oh, but we go back because it's not like I was like, oh, that is him. That was just a bull that I thought I could not walk away from. I got to put some energy into him. I want to see him in person, not just on camera. But he's dead now. And I'm like. And it made it a little bit easier that the burn a little bit easier because he was busted. Like he had matching flyers, like matching 15 inch flyers, double royals on each side. And one of them was busted clean off. And his G1 on his G1 was busted clean off. So I was like, you know, I'm not. I would. I don't think I'd ever. Repairable.

Yeah.

You know, because I. I feel like, you know, it is what it is. I mean. Yeah, let it, let it be. Let it, Let it be what it was. Right. So I don't know that I could have a repairable even if I knew. Like, okay, yeah, I knew that tine was 14 inches. Like, I don't know that I could repair it. So when I saw that he was busted. It didn't hurt as bad, but it still hurt, you know, I was like, man, that's probably the biggest bull I knew of at the time. In September. So we get through September. No real giants died or, you know, were seen. I got a picture. I got.

Are you getting stressed yet?

Oh, no, that's what I'm saying. It's like I have my brother's call me. I mean, my brother and I talk 14 times a day, you know, I mean, I, I, I'm self employed. I work with my headphones in and he, he works with his headphones in and it's like, we'll sit on the phone, you know, and just chitchat. So we talk a ton and, and he's like, he's out of his skin more than I am. Like, I don't, I'm telling you. It was like I, I was like numb. He just as, as we're leading up and I just, what do you do? You know, you just, the decisions made, I mean, there's, you just, you got to make the best of it. And, and it just, it was a weird feeling that I hadn't dealt with and I don't know for good or bad. I, I don't know, I just, I didn't feel. There was no, there was no once. It's, I guess it did phase me. I mean, don't get me wrong, it did phase me, but it pushed me into like a silence, you know, like A, like 2. It's one of those things. It's such a build up. You're too scared to take action, you know, like one of those, you know, like, like when you got a project so large you don't want to start it. Well, like that's the kind of like what I was dealing with. This is like, like I want to be 14 different places right now. So I didn't do any of them that kind of, you know, like I was, I had cameras dying in places that I needed to replace the batteries. But I wouldn't do it right away because I just, I don't know, I just. Interesting stress, stress like that. I, I mean, I can shrug, I, I hide from it. But anyway, so we get through September. No, no. Giants come through again. Great bowls. Like I was saying, I got a picture of like a really heavy, heavy, long beamed six by six and I sent it around to my inner circle and everybody just like, dude, there's no way you can pass a 370s clean six. I'm sorry, there's, there's that Frame. I mean, he was. We figured him to be 45 inches wide inside and 55 beams, like, and just. Dude in his back and just, you know, and I watched him. I went up there and seen him several times, videoed him, and I'm like, yeah. I mean, he's big. I mean, he's big. Like. Especially, like, you know, you say, don't judge anything by why it's going away from you. When he was, like. When he was feeding one day, walking away, it was like his frame was just that look, you know? Well, then October comes, and it's the first week of deer season. And I have a buddy that has a rifle deer tech. And he texts me, like, was I. No, I was not. I hadn't gone to Idaho yet. And he texted me and goes, dude, you need to. You need to get up here right now. There's a big bowl, you know, out here. And I was like, send me a picture. Well, we all have those buddies now. He's. Now he's hovering his phone over a spying scope. And. And so I got this shaky video. It's October. It's. I mean, the first week of October. And it's, you know, still got the heat, heat waves. And, I mean, all you can see is the fact that the bull has a pile of points and he's got a big frame. And so I jumped in my rig and I flew up there, got up there, and he's gone. Not surprised. He went up there the next day. And what started off to being like, okay, I just need to go look at this bowl. I would go back to that video he had sent me. It's like, so much. It showed so much, but it didn't show any conclusion to anything of my thoughts. Could this bull be this? Could this bull be that? Is he this? Is he that? And that's it. I went up there, like, upon that first day, I went up there, like, every day until I went to Idaho because I had a deer and elk tag for Idaho. But I told my brother, and unless I have my bowl found in his general location, I. I will not be able to go to Idaho. Like, I just can't. Like, I just meant my mental. I can't do it. But I did. I was like, you know what? I looked for that bull for? I don't know. Until we left for Idaho, it was day, you know, week. Every day, morning and night, I was up there. I could not find the bull. And it was just like, I'd see other bulls. I saw some great bulls. I. I mean, I even found a bull, like, the first time or. Or the first time I saw it, I was like, oh, that's him. Because he was that big. And I'm like, oh, no, it's not. Okay. Kind of weird, kind of same configurations, but not him. Went to Idaho and went down there for three days, actually. Yeah. Got there, hiked in, shot my buck the next day, packed it out the next day and went home. Like, I said, you know what? He's my brother. Had an elk tag. I had an elk tag and said, you're on your own for elk. I gotta go. Came back to Oregon, look for that bull a ton more. Can cannot find him.

Are you feeling like you need to go find the big six?

Yeah, I went back. I found him. I went right back. He was very ritual, same spot. And he had actually peeled off from his cows at the time that. That. My last video I got of him, he had peeled off from his cows and kind of headed for a dark spot. And I was like, okay. Like, I truthfully walked away from him that last time I videoed him and said, he's safe. Like, the odds of somebody finding him or slim and then killing, you know, he's safe. And so I honestly. That was my back pocket thought right there. And then, you know, we get real close to the season we're getting the week before, and I've got five guys over here, and we're scattered. We're. We're kind of scattered all over. The weather's change, the bulls are moving, but we're all kind of focused in the same half of the. The unit, same corner, and not, I mean, again, coming up with bulls, good ones. Just. I mean, they would send me. We'd all group back up and they'd be like, oh, dude, you know, they'd be thrilled. Like, dude, check out this bull. And it's just. It the weirdest feeling of just, like, me. I mean, even they were. They were just like, dude, this. You are nuts. Like, shrugging bulls that, you know, should I have been happy with? Yes. And 98% of the public would be happy with. Yes. I'm just. Just shrugging them. And that's when they kind of, you know, two days before the season, day before the season, they looked at me and like, you're all in on 88. And I was like, I haven't seen him. I can't pull the trigger on anything else until I see him. Like, I haven't physically seen him.

He's become like an obsession.

Because you hadn't absolutely did and that's why it's like, how can this bowl get away from me? Like, I, I was here within a couple hours of where his last location and he is just now gone. Like, and I have looked from every angle at this point.

Are you like he's gotta be here. Trust the process. Are you like, maybe he's in a different unit? Like how many times did you go through like he's, he's in Canada. For all I know.

My concern, my biggest concern of where he was was a native could have shot him and I had no idea. Right. And I would never know. And I don't know. It just, for some reason, it just, it was my thought process. I. There's no real hurry. There's. It's a 19 day season. I have, I had basically gone back to the realization of like I said earlier, passing that six point, knowing that he could. Not likely, but could get shot and I'll end up with a smaller bull. But knowing that I gave it time, I gave the weather opportunity to move them and I gave myself a chance. I, I couldn't, I just couldn't. You know, I couldn't be unsatisfied if a 350 bolt was what my tag got laid on.

Right.

And I was comfortable with that. That's literally, I mean maybe if I was comfortable or I was, that's what I was convincing myself to be comfortable with.

Right.

But that's what we were going with. And so, you know, to add to the mix of all of this, everything that I've said about my own personal desires, my scouting, everything, this gentleman that helped me get this tag, very nice guy, extremely, you know, humble, just wants to have a good time. And Eric, I just wanted, I just want an opportunity to kill an elk before I die. And like that speaks volume. I mean, so two days prior to the season, I mean he was, I, he showed up, I think, yeah, the day before. I told him to just, you know, go have fun. His son wasn't gonna allow or wasn't gonna be able to make the hunt until Saturday. Tag starts on Wednesday. His son was gonna be able to get here till Saturday. So he, he had showed up on Monday and just was driving around glassing points. I told him to just go check out, just enjoy, just enjoy the tag, enjoy the mountain. Like he, he's an outdoorsman too. So just stop thinking about the tag and just have a good time. And you know, he spent a couple days up here prior to the tag and then opening day comes along and I had seen A bull two days in a row. Me and Pinch actually spotted it together and it was just. It had trash. It was a heavy frame, big old humpback. I mean, the. The crazy part is, like, when we first saw it, his nose looked like a moose. Like, it was so rounded. Anyway, saw that bowl for two days, two days straight leading up to the season. But it was in the same kind of area that my bowl was at. And I was nervous because, you know, what do you do in this situation, this juggle effect and day of opener, bowl that bulls there. We scoured everywhere. The weather was not the greatest parts. You know, kind of comes and goes of the weather. Clouds and fog and rain. Day two bull still there. So Thursday, that bull. That same bull is still there. And I had saw a bull right at daylight and I was just like. Like it had extra on top and I. My dad was with me and I was like. Like that. I mean, it was on that fringe of daylight. I mean, I could. They sit. They stick out like pumpkins.

Yeah.

At that first 10 minutes of daylight, but you can't determine horns at 2, 000 yards or 1500 or whatever. I was looking and I had that feeling. I told my dad, man, that could have been him. So that held me off again. That held me off another day because right below me was that the nine by seven that I had been seeing for a couple days. And so that gave. That bought me more time because I thought I'd seen 88. And then Friday comes and I hadn't seen another big bull tag holder. I hadn't had any pressure from spike hunters. I hadn't had. I hadn't. I hadn't dealt with anybody. And it felt good. I hadn't dealt with anybody. And so I just. The urgency wasn't there yet. Well, Friday comes along and I. Same thing. We're going back to the same pattern. We're trying to dig this bull out of there. I get out there and that nine by seven is right there. He's. He's. He's sparring. He's actually. He was sparring with a couple younger bulls and I could. That's what I heard first. And. And so I looked at him and I was like, man, you know, I mean, he was really. He's a good bull. I mean, he scored 352, I think. So he's like, He's a really good bull. He's heavy, he's old. He's got extras. And I looked at my dad and I just. I said. I said, you Know this bull isn't going to stay here forever. And like that bull's literally 804 yards without even trying to cut any kind of distance. I mean, I just shot my gun. It did a three, a two inch group. A three shot two inch group at 800 yards a week before. I mean, so we're, it's not that you want to. I mean, we all, we all, we can go down that rabbit hole, but what's not. And, but with this tag, you got to be capable of some things. So anyway, I made the, the gut decision. I put my tag on hold completely and I called up that point holder or that the guy that had the tag and said, where you at? I mean, he's terminal cancer. He's dealing with a lot of physical things, health issues. And I called him and I said, hey, you know, I've been watching this bull for several days. Where are you at? And I said, okay, I need you to go down here, I need you to park, I need you to. And I said, when you get on that two track road, you need to run. And I said, and I need you to run with everything you got. I said, this bull's head for timber, but I think you can make it. Said, oh, I'll give her heck. And I mean, it felt like, it felt like 10 minutes, but it wasn't, it was like an hour. This bull's headed for timber.

He's.

He's 50 yards from the timber. And I'm thinking, I looked at my dad, said, there's no chance, no chance is gonna happen. Next thing you know, I get a text, says, I'm here at your pack. Where are you at? And I looked over my shoulder and he's standing there. It's like, whoa. Like, I don't know if time flew by or he actually did run. Somehow transportation, he got there and this bull is turned around at 50 yards. Both of his bodies went to the timber. He turns around 50 yards from the timber and starts feeding back out. And I was like, no way this is gonna happen. And so I, I mean at that point I like frantically, I, I looked at him and said, can you shoot your gun that far? And he looked at me like I was crazy. I said, didn't think so. Come here. Laid my gun down and bull stood still. 752 yards. That 73. 73. I think he's 70. 73 year old man shot that bull three times. Three shots. That first one literally shot it right in the heart. Heart. Second one, right forward of the heart. Third one Right back in the heart. Just boom, boom, boom, bull flip down the hill. This guy's. He's in tears. Like, had it. You know what I mean? Like, so cool. Felt right. It felt like the right thing to do. Did he just shoot three times in the canyon that Michael was living in? Yep. Was I thinking about that? Yep. But I felt it was the right thing to do. Yeah. So I spent the next. I spent that whole day and the next morning packing that bowl out for that gentleman and you know, for better or, you know, everything happens for a reason. That's. I mean, that's. We're in now. It's Saturday. Shot him Friday. Now we're finishing the day Saturday. And I've been taking a picture every day of a den of a back of a. Of a casing. No Denim primer. No. Day one, day two, day three, day four, day five, Sundays coming. Weather's not good. And all of my help is going home. Everybody. Which sounds catastrophic, but I spend so much time up there by myself that.

You weren't worried about it?

No. I mean, I was laying my head down at night and my girlfriend just. You shouldn't go. Do you just do what you do every other time just now you don't have to call somebody to call somebody or, or guide them to it. Just. Just take your, take your rifle where you want to go and, and just enjoy right now. You know, you've got a lot of time. Just relax like. All right. You know. And so my dad was working in Tri Cities and so he was kind of staying local. And so we stayed that Sunday night and then we got up Monday morning and he was going to go to work. I was gonna go to the mountain, but we got up super early. It was. I was gonna ride my quad in and get a different. Go back to original angle of where 88, I'm projecting him to be going. And so I got up at 2:30 or something. 2:30, 3 o'. Clock, loaded my quad and my dad and I head out the driveway and I didn't make it a mile down the road. And I felt this weird jerk. I look back quads, right. And I just. Is like. I mean the stress, the, the weather. I'm tired. I just packed bull out. Yeah. All my helps going home. Just lost a quad in the ditch. Like, don't know where 88's at. I've got this, this enormous build up, right? That moment like that like I eating you. I. I pulled over and I just sat there like I just dropped my hit. I was Just like, something's got to give here. Like, something's got to give. I called my dad. I said, how far did you make it? He goes, oh, I'm, you know, just ahead of you by 15 minutes. I said, well, I just lost the trailer. What? I said, I just lost the trailer. I need you to. I need your help. And so he comes back and helps me load it. And, you know, just one of those moments with my dad, you know, he followed me. I was going to the gas station, and it was a. It was a. It was a very. I don't know, it was a feeling that I. I. It's notable. I mean, yeah, I had to. We were. The gas station, and my dad just being such a giver type person. Like, he knew I was in the dumps. I mean, I was on the edge of tears because I was just so much. Just so much. I. I hadn't let any emotion out. My brother is asking me where to go. Where should he go look? Where should he send this person where she. I said, I don't know. I go find an elk. Like, you know how to find elk? Go find an elk. I don't, like, I don't want this. I don't want to be coordinator here. Like, please, just go. Just go look for elk. And that's what I've been saying for days, you know? Like, you know, so anyway, just all this pressure, and I was just so numb to it all that, like, when I lost that quad and I drove to town, my dad followed me to town, and I pull up to the gas station to fill up my truck, and he comes running up there and shoves this card inside the. The fuel reader, you know, and, like, he just stopped for a second, gave me, like, a big old hug. It was just like, like. And he just, like, said to me, he's like, hey, you're good. Like, you've waited your whole life for this. You spent all this time up there by yourself. You're fine. Just go up there and go find him. And that was, like. Not only was it, like, very emotional for me because me and my dad have, like, a really tight relationship. But, like, those. I'm. I'm a very. Like, when words, like, sink in, and I really grab onto them, and I go, like, doubtful words, like, negative words. I'll. I'll make you eat them. You know, stuff like that. I hold it true. But, like, my dad said that I just. It sunk. So I get up there, take off my quad. It's so cold. Ride my quad. It. You Know, three, four, three. Thirty, four o' clock in the morning. Ride in there an hour and a half, get to my glassing spot and get off the quad. I'm sitting there, and as it's getting daylight, the punk. The pumpkins are on the hillsides, you know, and I could see. I could see a bright bull. I put my spotter on it, just mentally, you know, rag. My rag, you know, it's like 315. And so I'm like, rag. But I could. Seriously, I'm like, man, are those tips? Are those antlers behind it? Like, I'm literally looking on a skyline. And as I. As. As a crow flies later on, it was literally two miles. Wow. And I can see tines. I can see ivory tines through the blades of the yellow grass coming up. I'm like, man, there's a bullet.

I could.

Then I could start seeing a back, a hairline. I'm thinking, there's a bull coming behind it. I'm just gonna. I mean, I've been. You know, my thought process, it's just a bull, you know, I'm just trying to figure out what bolt is. And literally, it. I can't even see its full body. It picks its head up over the skyline. There he is.

Found it. First time.

Eight days. 28 days. Dude, that's crazy. Eighth day of season. Or no, six. Six or six days Monday, so Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, sixth day of season, 28 days missing. Pops up wild, and he's with five other bulls.

Where he was 28 days ago.

Probably. Probably a good two and a half miles, roughly. But, you know, up here, it's right.

All right there. Yeah.

So I watched him. Watched him for 30 minutes. Ish. 40 minutes. It was just. It was. Dude, it's so surreal. It was just like, what? Where? I mean, anyway, I watched him go to timber, and I was just praying that I had kind of figured out his pattern. Like, I just like, okay, this is where he's at. This is where he's been. This is why I haven't found him. Weather, fog, all the things are just perfect scenarios. I had looked to where he was when I just found him. I had looked from a different angle at that hillside, saw elk, never saw him, but could have been one of those things. He was bedded down while the other. You know, it's like you just perfect scenarios. And I. Here I am looking at two, two miles. So I've got a shaky video and now a two, two mile. But that, you know, that two mile is me. Perspective you know, me looking. Videos that I took at that morning. You can't tell, but, you know, looking through a glass by yourself, you can see it better. Yeah. Just the movements and everything. Daylight's different, lighting's different. I was like, was it.

Was it an instant?

Hell, yes.

Or was it like. I don't know.

How about this? It was an instant. There was a lot of going on. Like, it was just. I couldn't. I couldn't. I guess there was no. Hell, no.

Yeah.

Because we wouldn't have done anything different.

Yeah.

But so I decided, okay, I need to get closer. And, like, he went into this draw. It was timbered, but wasn't, like, super timbered. So I, like, packed up as soon as he went out of sight. Packed up really quick. Fatal mistake. I mean, not fatal mistake, but not a mistake. I should have stayed put. Well, then I fl. I. Then I took off. I got on the quad, and I took off. I drove a mile to another glassing ridge that kind of gave me some western. Almost looking west at him and where I thought I could see him, and he wasn't there. There was one bull going across, like, an open and into the next canyon. But I was worried because I was like, I didn't see that bull before when I was watching the bulls. So I'm like, is that. Was that a new bull? Was that part of his group? Did he wrap around the corner? Did he not?

Now you don't know.

Now I don't know because I should have stayed put. I should have stayed put to see if he wrapped the corner. I didn't. And I. You know, I'm gonna learn by mistaker. And so I. I didn't stay put, and I didn't know where you went. And so now I'm here out in the middle of, you know, I. I. They bed down. They're only up for an hour, and they're in the timber, and they're bedded down all day. It's like, so that I said, so I just prayed that, you know what? Let's go put my. Let's plant myself within a thousand across from him. That way I could give it a good look, and I'll be there tonight. Go there tonight. And anybody that knows a big three when the wind's cranking, those bulls don't break the timber. They just don't. They just. They. They might. I mean, if they're pushed or they're needing to go somewhere, they'll cross a face. They won't go out there and feed on it in the cranking wind, they don't, like, was ripping. Like, I have a video that day of, like, the trees just absolutely just turning at a.45. I thought, man, like, my truck's gonna get whacked, you know, whatever, you know, like, it was that bad wind, and I just knew. I was like, first off, you ain't shooting him. Even if he was 300 yards, you ain't shooting him. But I was on, and it was on. And I. I went. I came back out that night and a friend had joined me that had the tag in 2019. He was kind of waiting to, like, join me. Like, so I didn't have. Because, like, that first five days, we figured. We figured that first five days when I'd shoot it, right? You know, like all this work time, like five guys on the hill, we'd shoot it. So I kind of had that plan for that first, you know, five days to have people there. Well, after that, it was kind of just sporadic. Like I'll, you know, this person would come for these couple days and that another, you know, just so I could maybe at least have a couple people, you know, here and there at times. So I wasn't. So I could enjoy this with, you know, friends. Anyway, he shows up Monday night, and we go back there Tuesday morning, and nothing. He's. There's. There's bulls there, but he's not. And it's just like a group of bulls.

Or is it different?

No, no. Different bulls. Different. So now I'm like, so this is where. This is when this is. This reality was here at this time. And I start panicking because I'm like, man, I told my brother, I said, if he gets to that next basin, it's all timber. It's all timber. Like, that's going to be really hard. Really hard. And then beyond there, it gets worse. Like. Like it just. The scenario is getting worse. And I'm thinking. And, you know, it's. It's a. It's a jaunt, it's a drop to even access where he's at, to even shoot or get. You know, that canyon he's. I think that he's headed for is no easy way about it. No, hands down, no easy way about it. My brother's words of advice is do not drop in until you see him again. You need to save your legs.

Yeah.

While my girlfriend is complete opposite because she knows my hypertenednesses, and she's just like, you need to go. Like, you need to get in there where you think he went and try and intercept him. Like, you just need to go. You've, you've played this game.

Such a ballsy move.

Such. Because you have played this game of try not to pressure him and keep a lookout from afar for far too long.

Right?

You're gonna, you're like, you've got four days of decent weather ahead of you. You're gonna blow through those four days and we'll be right back into weather and you're gonna get. The added stress is going to come back. You need to. You need to get up and, and drop. And so fortunately I did have that friend join me. So I was like, hey, why don't you go back to the far. Look, I'm gonna get up super early. I have to drive an hour and a half. I'm gonna unload the Forerunner. I'm gonna drive in an hour and a half and I'm gonna be leaving the forerunner at 3:34 o' clock a.m. because it's going to take me three hours of beaten feet to get to this canyon. I mean, I think I had a 2700 foot. Oh, I've had. The intimidation of that canyon is like, it's, it's pretty gnarly when you're up on top and looking down through, you're like, like it's just all timber. Oh, yeah, here we go.

Talk about a needle in a haystack.

And that's just another part of it. It's just like, like that's my brother's theory. It's like, dude, you. This could be so much wasted effort. And then what if you go down in there and then he spotted across the can you literally, there's nothing you can do down there. You have to come. You're burned. That day, coming all the way back. You know, it's a gamble. It was a huge gamble. And. But I just. Yeah. And, and I think, I think I was. I. My girlfriend. I've been sitting on my hands for too long. Yeah. I, you know, I haven't dove in anywhere. I've been glassing from. I've been walking out ridges and glassing. I haven't really done a whole lot. So. Yeah, I think just stretching my legs and, and just kind of giving it a. A day was something I was desiring at the time. So I said we're doing it. So we did. I got there, I left four Runner. I don't know. I think I looked at my picture. It's like 4.0something. You know, I packed all day's worth of food. We're hiking in the dark for hours. And I. I crest into the canyon that I was anticipating. I mean, you can't plan things very good. Like, especially, you don't know how things are going to be. You don't know, you know, dark. You're walking the dark. Everything's slower. And I crested into his canyon as day I cracking over the hillside. And weirdly enough, I mean, this is like October or, no, November, like third or something, I think. And there's both bugling everywhere, literally everywhere. There's a giant herd kind of down across the canyon that's kind of on an open slope on the out, you know, it's like just on a different main, even ridge system. But there's a, I mean, 300 head elk and there is bulls. And in that. So my mind is like, crap, did he. I mean, we're talking there. I am. If that's, if that's a reasonable thought of where he's at. I'm in a horrible location to even think about that situation. So, like, I'm looking at those elk, trying to, like, because there is a ton of elk. There's a ton of bugling going on. I'm like, man, did he get drug over there? And so I'm like looking at them frantically. Next thing I know, there's bulls going straight across from me on the hillside that I, I. That I'm there to go look at, start picking that thing apart. There's, you know, there's bulls just kind of cracking off everywhere. And I was just like, what's going on here? Like, it was a weird, weird morning for, you know, a November week. You know, it's. It was. And so I might glass and everything. I can. I. I don't know. I didn't see him. And about 30 minutes, 40 minutes after daylight, after been glassing for a while, I heard some horns smacking below me. Like, I was on the open side of the hillside. I was looking at the timbered side, but I could hear down deep in the draw. I mean, there was. And we're not talking the, the November sparring. There's a couple bulls down there figuring out who's king. And I was like, man, I mean, you know, you're biasedly thinking, oh, yeah, you know, but you see a raghorn smack of an antler is different than a big old club. Like, And I just felt like that the, the noises I was hearing wasn't just your sparring of little toying around. So it. I kept picking my way up the canyon and next, you know, I get to. I Kind of there's like these little fingers that feed off this main finger. And I kind of get on the end of one and I'm still not above those antlers where they were. Where they were fighting. But I'm down Still probably three or 400 yards, but down country. But I stop and I start glassing and I see bulls up on the hillside and I start looking at them and you know that antler click thing and. Or you know, just that noticing configurations. I go, man, that's that. That looks like that goofy five. So I go back to my video from two days prior, and there's the goofy five that was standing next to 88 during one of my videos. I'm like, he's in here. He is in here.

That's the bowl that was with him.

That is. That was one of the bulls that was with him right there. And this bull's, you know, four yards across the canyon from me, and he's with two or three more. I'm watching him. Next thing I know, I. I hear some sticks breaking and kind of below them and in the timber and. And I start. I see catches bull moving through the timber. And you know that your heart's racing now. Every time you see a body, your heart, your heart's at redline.

Yeah.

And I look at this bull and this, this point, point of the hunt, this, this specific situation was I. I think about all the time now because now I look back at the video, I watch this bull come through an opening and I went, whoa. And it goes down in the timber. Well, I knew it wasn't him first off, but he. But it was a big bull. I mean, it was a big bull, but I knew it wasn't him. But he goes down that timber and I'm like, well, I should probably get a video of that real quick just to show, you know, document whatever I videoed that bull for. I mean, I think the video is 30 seconds long. Pulled the. Pulled the digiscope off, threw my backpack and just kept going up the canyon. I said, I'm gonna get up above. Daylight's coming up. It's start. You know, it's getting warmer. It's a sunny day. I need to get up canyon above those bulls that were. Before they kind of go to where they're going to go in bed. By this time, it's 10:30, 11:00'. I'm looking across. Those bulls that were with him days prior are now just bedded on the hillside. Just. They're bedded in a. Like a one Little opening, meadowy little slit. And they're bedded in it. And I kind of put my back up against a rock and the sunlight. I'm exhausted and up since, you know, I had a. So I fell asleep. I fell asleep, man. Like the sun naps, the fall sun naps are just. And so I'm like hanging out. I fall asleep. I actually had my AirPods in. I don't know why, but I had my AirPods in. And my girlfriend calls, woke me up, you know, and, and she's like, how's it going? And like I get so lost with time or anything that checking in just. I don't know. I don't, I don't do it often. It's not into. It's not a. But she like calls me like, you haven't said anything. Just checking in and like 11 o', clock, you know, like, oh, woke me up and, and I'm like taking a sun nap. You know, she's at work and I'm out here taking a mountain. Yeah. Anyway, so. I'm, I, I talked to her for 10 minutes and hung up. And I'm, I, I think I ate an apple and I'm about to fall asleep again and crack. Here those antlers are just smacking right below me. Like literally I'm on a little bit of a, of a, of a, of a sub finger. And they are literally at the bottom of the sub finger.

Like oh, wow.

I couldn't have placed myself above them better. And I packed up my yard sale as fast as I could. I went straight, I went. I, I actually the first time of. Since this tag has, since opening day, I opened up the chamber and I threw a bullet in and I start going straight down the hill. I get, I work my way down to. I'm like 200 yards from the bottom. I can actually see the bottom. And I kind of sit up underneath this pine tree, this big ponderosa. And I'm looking across and I catch an elk move and red line. Pull my pack off, throw my pack on the ground, pull out my spotter, put it on there. And that first moment, I mean he's facing straight away and all you can see is a wall of ivory. And it's just like him. It's freaking him. Went from there to my range finder and it was 298 yards and I was just like, I mean he's in the timber, he's in the thick. But there's, you know, there are gaps in timber and, or this stuff there was, you know, it Was a bigger. It was a more mature timber stand. So there's gaps in it, and it's just like. Like, you know, holy cow. Like, it's here. There he is. And I'm just sitting there, and I kind of look around, and there's nowhere to shoot from. Like, my bipods don't go tall enough. I'm not shooting off my pack. Not doing that. So I kind of. I kind of. That's just. I mean, I. That's. I think that's from guiding. As soon as I see an animal, you start looking like people are just focused on. Well, I'm looking for a spot to shoot from, because you don't got a spot to shoot from then. So I look around first for a spot to shoot, realize it. I'm not in a good spot. And I look back up the hill. There's a rock bluff 50, 50 yard behind me. So I back up the hill and set the spot and scope and watch him and call my brother.

No way.

And I said, dude, I said, I'm looking at 88 right now. He's like, seriously, is he dead? I said, nope. I said, he's feeding. And he. I'm getting pure panic through the phone. Like, pure. He goes, how far is he? I said, 348 from where I sit. And he. I mean, why he did that? He's whispering through the phone. I'm like, dude, you don't need to whisper, bud. Like, and. But, yeah, he's like. He's in full red line. Yeah. And he's like, is he. Are you gonna shoot him? I was like, I think I have to. Yeah, he's big. He's like. I said, he's as big as I thought he could be. Which is the verbiage that we had several times. Like, could he be this or is he that? Yeah, as big as we thought he could be. Wow. Talk to him for 10 minutes and I gotta go call my girlfriend, Talk to her for 10, 15 minutes, same thing.

Is he feeding?

Literally feeding. There's literally. There's no panic. Like, everything fell off completely. Like, I'm scared to death to shoot this bull right now. Like, I. I almost wondered if I called to. To get. Like, I was numb. Like, I was just watching an elk and. And just videoing him, and he's. And he's not in a spot to shoot him, but I can see him. And it's just. When he was looking away, his thirds come out and they go. They're so long. But, like, that's not what I I mean, yes, I know it's the third, but, like, everything was long. Yeah, everything about him was long. And I was like, okay, he's big. Like, and then, you know, like a width of an elk. I don't know. I mean, you go down to, you know, you go third now with, like, what's. How wider a bull shoulders. Okay. He's like, you know, X amount. Is this wind do anything to the microphone?

Yeah, a little bit, but it's not terrible.

It's fine.

Tell me if it gets worse. So I talked to her for, like, 10 minutes, and. And, you know, she's like, what are you gonna do? And I said, honestly, I said, he's. He's kind of feeding towards an opening, but I don't know. I said, I'm gonna get off the phone here and just call you back. I hung up, watched him, and I think I might have called my brother one more time or. I don't know, but I remember him walking into the opening, and I was watching him through my phone scope, and when he stepped into that open happening, like, it gave me that wow. Like. Like, woof. Yeah, the. The feeling that you. That I was searching for. For all year. Yeah. And so I just. I went from the. My. From my spotter to my gun to my spotter to my gun, like, five times, like, making sure that it's, like, perfectly in the frame range. Damn. Again, 348. Even to the point where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna high shoulder him so I can just dump him. Like, I don't want to play this game. I don't. I mean, I just want to dump him. Like, so I'm like, okay, I'm watching him get my gun on him. Oh, wait, is the spot scope still there? He moved a couple, you know, and so I went back, you know, and, yeah, he stepped out clear. As clear as it could be. And I put one bullet. And, like, even in the video, you can hear me just go click. Like, I. I shot. I. I watched the book. I watched blood drip out of the book, the entry. It's just like, oof. And I literally go click. And I sling, and you can hear the bullet just rattle out. Like, it's not like. Not like. It was just like. Just slam open the bolt and just cling, and you can hear it trickle down the hill. And I literally put the boat forward as I was. I stayed on the whole time, and he just stood there. I mean, I shot him. And he. He just picked his head up, and I just was getting A squeezing off. And he just rolled out. Rolled out of my scope force. He was standing for four, three point, like eight seconds or whatever. Then he rolled out of the scope. And in the past, it's been like a burst of energy comes out. Wasn't there. Like, it was. I was very nervous. Like, what's next? Yeah, interesting. Like, what's. I. I'm. I'm done. Like, this is over. It's only day eight. There's ten more days. Eleven more days. What's. What? You know, I have to go home. Dude, did I shoot too soon?

Yeah.

I even. I even considered before shooting him, I might have said it on the phone to one of my brothers or Nicole. I said, I think I could back out of here. We could come back and find him and we could kill him together. And they're like, we can't make it there. Wait, wait. Like, just kill him. Don't. Don't play this game. Like, just kill him. One of them said it, but I did say it on the phone. I said, I could back out of here. We'll come back. And they're like, no, anyway, I shot him. I sat there for an hour. I mean, most people would just run. Yeah. And I was scared. Like, I just. I honestly, I just. Was just like, it's over. So, yeah, talk to. Talk to so many people. I sent. I've sent a picture of a dented primer to, like, my group chat.

Yeah. Yeah.

And all this time, I had forgotten one thing. I had somebody on the mountain glassing for me. Oh. Never even crossed my mind. Next thing I know, he calls me because, did you just hear that gunshot? I said, what are you talking about? He goes, I just heard a gunshot down your direction. I said, yeah, that was me. I just killed 88. He goes, well, how am I supposed to know? I. I felt so bad. I was just like. But that's where my mind was. It was. It was gone. I had help on the mountain, watching the hillside. Gunshot goes off, and he has no idea what's going on.

Did he ever see him that morning?

No. No, he. I mean, I think from the day that I spotted him two days prior, he went down into that draw, and he never. I mean, he just.

He's just living in there.

I don't think that bull ever felt pressure since the first week of October. He didn't feel my pressure. Pressure or presence. I don't think that bull. I think for that 28 days that I was looking for him, he was saying he was out to lunch, he had no idea. I mean there was, it's not like he got pressured to hear or pressure there. Bump from this hunter. Bump. I never saw a big bowl tag holder. I never got interrupted by a spike hunter. Literally nothing was around this bull. He was just out to lunch.

Yeah.

And I somehow dug him out of where he called home. Like.

Yeah. I mean, honestly got really lucky just to catch him that one time on the ridge. I mean, without that. Gosh, you never know.

It was. And it was in. Not only that is it was the bugling in the horns.

Yeah.

I mean, without the noise of the horns, would I drug me up that canyon to go look? You know what I mean? Like, there's so many stars that aligned that kept feeding me a crumb to continue to, to look or whatever. You know, I could have, I could have, my inner gut could have told me that. He's over there joined in with those 300 ahead elk and he's over there trying to figure out if there's a hot cow left. I don't.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like so many things. Yeah. So split second decisions and anyway, so I, I crawled over there. I got over there hour, hour after I shot him or something like that. And he was bananaed around a tree. Just complete banana around a tree. And I just, I mean instantly I was like, well, can't do nothing with him there. And but his horns, like his, his nose was up in the air and his like all his tines were dug. All this top, his back end was all dug into the, into the ground. When I got there, you obviously, you know, he's, his thirds were just, just hanging out. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't. I flipped his head out and that's when it came out. Like, that's when I was just like, holy cow. Like, there is so much antler here. There's so much time. Like, that's when I like did that scream fist pump, you know? Yeah. Like all that. That inner. I was storing up for so long, it came out and I don't know, Manny. I, I, I spent the next 30 or 40 minutes weasel him out from underneath or around that tree, which I had to get the hind end of him up and over, which is terrible. And then I have a video. I set my phone up and I literally like at the time I made the comment, I, I literally said, you ever seen anybody roll a 380 bull down the hill? And I just kicked him loose and he just down, he rolled like 80 yards into a draw. Yeah. I just, I mean, I mean, oh my. I. Well, as I, as I was pushing over his front hoof, I said, please don't break, buddy. But yeah, I went down there, took some pictures and just enjoyed it. Sat there. I. I mean, I shot him at like noon, took some pictures and then just, Just sat there for a while, honestly, thinking about it, thinking about the season, thinking about everything. And, and then I, I worked him up or I. Actually, what I did is it was frosty. The whole hillside was frosty. And I got him split up. I got him split up the. Up the middle and, and got all of his internals out and then spread him open and just let him sit and then I hiked out of there. I left him at like, I want to say five o'. Clock. I got back to my 4Runner at midnight or 1am or something like that. I don't know. It was, it was really, I mean, journey. Oh, it was like a four hour hike out or whatever it was. Got back, drove all the way back to my. Drove all the way back to my super duty. And normally I would have loaded up that 400 and brought it home with me, but I just left it. I just so was sick. I left it. Sit there on the side of the road and said, I'll be back here. And I called, I made, you know, the, the phone call to. I had six or eight guys show up and heck yeah, I got to enjoy it a little bit at that point. You know, I killed him by myself. But there was people that deserved to be a part of something. And it was, you know, they saved my butt a ton. I, I've been that phone call. I've driven across the state. I've. I've been that phone call for people. And I just felt, you know, maybe this is that time. Yeah, that. I mean, that's my turn.

What a crazy cool story. And I just mean, man, the, the persistence to stick with it, to get, I mean, like the, and then to make the call to get in tight. Like all. It's everything falling together so cool. And that's like, that's such a classic big bull story. Like, man, that is like, that's how big bulls. That's how it works right there.

Yeah. And that's, that's how they survive is just. They jog. They go left when you go right. You know, it's just, it's just how it works. It's. It's all right.

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You know, just like the story of the, of the shed bull that, that we started with like double lived 12 years. And so I go back to like, I, I mean my bowl will get aged but I think it was, I think from. With trail cameras and past history with shed antlers and stuff from other people that have them. I think he's about nine. So here's another old, old bowl that yeah, I mean nobody had cracked into his circle. That's crazy. That's so cool. Yeah. So he really blew up. I mean he really blew up. There was, I had, I had a trail camera photo from this summer that a gentleman sent me and it was, he was in velvet and it, the picture was a, a bull you'd pass.

Oh really?

In velvet. Just the way the photo, the way the photo's taken, it's a picture of a bull and that kind of threw a wrench in my thought process. Like when I was looking for him, like during that time frame of that 28 days, like there was times I'd go back and look at that velvet picture and be like, am I wasting my time? Like when I find him, is he going to be what I call a mini giant? Where looks good but his frame is way too small for him to ever be anything. That's, that's basically what it comes down to is he had all the points. But here's his time length is going to determine whether he's actually got a frame of a big bowl or he's got a 300 inch frame. Either he's got a 3, a 356 point or a 306 point. There is a huge difference. When you're talking your base measurements of a six point bowl then you add up your, your extras.

Yeah.

And so you gotta like that's, that's, that was my 28 days of decision is he a 300 inch six or is he. Was he a 356?

And that's such a classic Oregon problem.

Too, because, like, you'll have a lot.

Of many giants there where it's like just, they look big, but they're not.

Yes. 100% narrow.

They're not long. They just don't have, you know, that big bull frame.

Yeah. Yeah. And so it was just, you know, everybody. What's he score? What's he score? What's he score? I didn't score him. I mean it when I say.

Good for you.

I mean it when I say. And you can hold this true. I scored him on. I scored him for the very first time. Would have been. Where's the picture? March 17th.

So you just scored him.

I literally just scored him last week or something. So I pushed it off. Because what determines a giant bull? Is it a score or is it. How is it a perspective of, of how you, how you, how you look at it?

The encounter, dude.

Yeah. And so I kept, you know, I have chased, I have, I have played the number game. I've had people put a lot of money on the fact that I can, you know, play a number game. Didn't want to play the number game. I left it till March 17. And he, he's a lot bigger than I anticipated. So, you know, I had that, that fairy tale story of I, you know, it inflamed. Inflamed, inflamed to. I went into this tag, clawing, clawing and prying, hoping to kill a 380 plus bull, which is stupidity, but he far exceeded it. And I've. It's not official. So he's not by an official score. I've been pretty close on in the past, you know, a couple inches here and there, but he broke four and. Oh, damn. Until it's official, then we'll go the number beyond that. But there's no way from the numbers that I've gotten that he will. That no matter how tight you want to stretch it, you are not going to get him under 40 inches.

Dude, that's. That's awesome, man.

I mean, the number game is a.

Number game, but that particular number is pretty cool to break, especially in Oregon.

Absolutely. So. And that's, that's why I bring it up is because, you know, everybody's got a rumor. I wanted, you know, if we're going to tell the story, we're going to tell the story start to finish, and anybody wants to know. I like, you know, I've had people come over and look at it. They say he's this, he says that, you know, there's rumors all over the place from 375 to 420. You know, like it's, it's, it's everywhere. But that's funny. He broke four.

When I saw the photo, well the first photo I was like gosh, that ball's close to four. And then I saw another photo, I was like yeah, maybe he's 380. Like, like just like two different photos I haven't seen in person here know. And so I was like, I was curious if it did break for or not. I didn't want to ask.

Yeah, no, no, I, I, I, yeah, no, I, I wanted to, I haven't wait. I mean haven't talked about it and yeah, he, he doesn't the bull. I look at his individual numbers and I can, I can understand it. But when you look at him like his, his face on like his inlines hide everything hides like it's a very, like it's kind of, it's kind of weird but like I mean he goes, it's like 15 inch front, 16 inch twos. His thirds are 19 and 22, 21 inches long. Like, like they're 21 and 7 are right there. Anyway, on his big ones, Legos, his swords are 18 and 15. His 15 is on his actual big side. Because that inline right behind that 15 inch sword is 19 long. 19 inches long. The inline is.

Well yeah, just right there.

That's what I'm saying. So it's like that's where, that's where the numbers are coming from. And then, and then he's so webbed out up in that, that inline area. His mass up there is 10 inches. So it just doubled right. You know, and, and then his other side goes 15, 16, 22 or 21 and 7, 18, 13, like 10 or something, right? With 50.

Yeah. I mean just on the inlines in lines and that extra mass with the webbing, I mean you're adding 50 inches.

Yeah, that's crazy. That's why when you go back to it like, like his frame is like a 340 style framed six with 10 inches above average on his. So he's like a 346 point with 10 inches bigger aside thirds. So now you're already cracked. Three hundred and sixties. And then now you're adding a 20 inch inline, a 13 inch inline. Like it just, See it just goes so fast that you. My girlfriend was adding up the numbers after we did it and she goes I like Went to look at the calculator. She goes, no, no, no, no, don't look. I'm like, why? She goes, I totally just messed that up. And I'm like, oh, okay. She goes, if you saw that number, you would have freaked out. And then she does it again. She goes, oh, well, hold on a second. And anyway, I stay up till 2 o' clock that morning. Oh man, that's cool. That is so cool.

I'm pumped for you, dude.

For you. A long. A lot of. I mean, anticipation. A lot of. I mean, it's a weird feeling. I don't know how to explain it. It's a. I was numb. That's the best thing I could say is I. I was almost emotionless leading up to the point where I walked up to him and flipped his head out.

Crazy, dude. What a crazy story. I'm so pumped for you.

Yeah, it's cool. I mean, coming from the same backgrounds, we were chasing the same kind of elk, you know, letting the five points pass just to shoot a six point with our bows and, and then to have that, that hope and a dream someday of, of. Of that. That you really, as an Oregon resident, it's crazy realistic.

How many 400 bulls come out of Oregon every year?

There's a. I mean, there's one or two every year. Yeah, there really is. I mean, whether that be on private or not though, you know.

Right.

It's. It's kind of hard to say, but yeah, the big three has the ability to produce. One doesn't in any of them. Not just, not just any of them. Any of them can crack a 400 inch bull any given year. But you're talking how many. I mean. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like the amount of, the amount of elk. It's just. There's so much that has to. To make it, you know? Yeah. I don't know, dude.

That's.

I don't know.

To me, like, growing up in Oregon, like that is such a huge dream. Like such a. Like just finding that needle in a haystack, that 400 inch giant in Oregon.

Like, that's just, that's, you know, just to lose him for 28 days. Yeah. Wait. And, and, you know, throw my season on complete hold, help Jerry kill his bowl. I mean, it's sad.

That was karma, dude.

That would like. I mean, that was good karma for you. Yeah, for sure. And I don't get me wrong, I. I was. It just. It felt like the right thing to do at the time. Whether or not he was in that canyon. And we did push him out because of those three shots. I don't know. But it just felt like the right thing to do. And to this moment, I, I mean I talk to that guy each week and the cancer has, the cancer has gotten a lot worse. Things have gotten, things have gotten really emotionally, you know, he, he, he said, you know, I, I was, you know, his, his out of his words. It's, you know, you get, you pushed me to, to live out my last year, which was one of my best.

That's cool.

And it's just that right there, I'm, I mean it, that's why I feel like it's kind of dulled down my situation because here's a guy that just wanted to kill a bull.

Yeah.

Just kill a bull. And then he killed his freaking awesome. Oh Yeah. I mean, 73 year old guy shooting a 350 bull up here.

Yeah.

You know, it was really cool. It was, it's been a, it's been a journey. This last year was a, was a wild one and you know, just have.

To top it next year. No big deal.

I was just about to say, you know what everybody always says, well, how are we gonna top this? You know, I don't know where that, the mountain where the top of the peak is, but.

I just keep enjoying the process, man.

Dude. Yeah, congrats. Yeah.

We'll have to post some photos and stuff, but. Such an epic. I'm so glad you came on and told the story.

Yeah.

If anybody hasn't. Yeah. The bulls on the COVID of this month's Hunt and Fool magazine. Or this month or last month.

One of the months. April.

So it's this month. Yeah. Dude, things have stud. Congrats, man. Cool story. Yeah, thanks for coming on, man.

I appreciate it. I, I, it's, I wanted to get it all out there and include the Jerry thing and in his situation and you know, it just, it, it deserved to be hell yeah. On the air somewhere for somebody could get the full story. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, take care, buddy. Let's keep in touch. One of these days I'll be up in your neck in the woods. But hey man, thanks again.

Well then, cheers, buddy.

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