September Mule Deer Madness with Hayden Richins

Foreign.

To the Hunt west podcast, here's your host, Jaden Bales.

All right, we're gonna start this podcast. Hayden's already telling me I look tired and that, you know what I just did this absolute roaster of a workout. Like the type where you have, like, copper lung afterwards and you're just, like, dying.

Yeah.

So that's my excuse. That's why I look tired. I've had plenty of energy. You look like you need a nap. You know what? You're right. I do need a nap. That's what I should do after this. But, dude, September is just around the corner, and by the time people are listening to this, it's going to be, like a couple days away. So I don't know about you, but are you absolutely pumped?

Oh, yeah.

Another unemployed hunting season. Makes me always excited.

I can't believe you did this. Weren't you working here just this last month?

Yeah, just be enough money to get.

By for the month of September. Yeah, dude, I. I like. I like your style, man. I think between the two of us, we both are probably living on scraps here for the. The fall, but it's gotta have some priorities. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Now, luckily, we both have supportive, significant others, so I think that's a big part of it. Just be able to do it.

Oh, 100%.

It's still a challenge every year. I don't know about you.

Oh, yeah. And also, like, couches to surf on. You gotta have some people around you, not just the. Well, significant others make a world of difference, but people around that when you're bip. Bopping around hunting, that you can go get a shower every once in a while. Yeah, things like that for sure, dude.

One thing I thought about the other day, and this is where we're going to start. I don't think I ever found out how you got into archery deer hunting. Now, like, you and I have talked about a bunch of different things on this podcast and then just, like, in person, too. But I've never heard the origin story of why you got into archery deer hunting. So how'd you. How'd that get kicked off for you?

Well, I think, like, with a lot of people, my pops. So he's always been an archery hunter. You know, neither of us are purists, but when I was young, that was his jam. And he always says, you know, he picked up a bow because it gave him an extra month on the mountain. So I think he got me into it. When I was young and I shot an old. I think it was a silver hawk is what they were called. It was like an old two wheel bow when I was 12 and he said if you can get a big game critter down with this, then I'll get you a nicer bow and like just show that you really actually like it. So I shot that and that's what I got an antelope with. And then I got a youth bow that was a little bit nicer and then got into it from there. So there was definitely. My pops was out doing it. And that's what you did in September. I think the same thing for me. I'm no purist. I love archery. Deer hunting, that's by far my favorite.

Yeah.

But you know, I'm not a purist. Once it's rifle season, I'll pick up a rifle. But you just get so much more time out there and there's just a little bit of a. How you're viewing the situations is a little bit different. You just have to be so much more into it. And a tune, I guess.

Yeah.

It's a little bit more intentional with how you're going about things. It's, you know, especially mule deer. They're great. But you can drive around and see some and pop them with a rifle. But getting into archery range is a whole different ball game.

Yeah, that's one of my favorite parts, man. It's like, look, I'm not going to say that guys can't drive around and whack a deer every now and then, but doing it on a good one consistently, it is. It is hard, especially if you're not giving it the time. So.

Yeah.

How do you feel about.

It's something else too. That's. It's just the best.

Yeah.

No, you know, we get in arguments with our buddies about elk hunting and stuff, but I don't know, there's something about chasing muleys with a bow that is just the best.

Dude. I loved how last year we drew this elk tag and I think for the first full week, every single day we put a stock down on a deer. This. Did we. There were.

There was a couple times we knew where some elk were at and we saw bucks so we went and checked them out.

Yeah. Yeah.

Just mobbed in there.

Which, you know, maybe that had some impact on my eventual elk success or lack thereof. But hey, you still got it done, man.

So with a day left. Day to spare.

Yeah, exactly.

I was. So we didn't.

You.

I'm not trying to Throw you under the bus, didn't you?

Can throw me under the bus all you want. I deserve it.

Sail and arrow over a back of a deer while you were stalking an elk.

Yeah, so that. That's a good. That's a great example, actually. We were. I'll just tell that story real briefly, and you can fill in some gaps. Basically, we were glass in this giant canyon. It was burnt. And we found these elk in the burn. And there was, I don't know, an hour and a half of daylight left or something of shooting light.

Yeah.

And we were looking, and it's like, okay, drop 1400, gain 6 or 800, something like that on the other side to get to the elk. And I'd also like to highlight.

It was by far the biggest bowl we saw.

It was a big one, but it was a good one.

And it was not just big for the air. It was a nice bowl. Yeah, it was a good bowl, which.

Is why I played it so conservative. And then we ended up getting another opportunity to try to get him killed the next day. But that's a. That's an elk story. That's not what we're here about. But yeah, so I'm running. I'm running down the ridge to try to get across. I hit the creek bottom and like 15 minutes or something. And then I start coming up the other side. I get off the bottom and it starts benching out a little bit. So you like, hit a bench climb, Hit a bench climb, Hit a bench. And they o are handful of benches on up mid mountain. And as I'm sneak, I like, come up over the bench. I wasn't really being that quiet. I'm hustling and I like, pop up over the bench. And I see on the same one that I'm standing on, there's a buck feeding. And I'm like, oh. So I throw up my binos and I'm like, that's a. That's a decent four point right there. I was like, what if I killed this buck? And I was like, thinking, like, what are the boys gonna think? Like, this is an absolute stomper bull. Let's just see. Let's just shoot the deer.

Yeah.

Like, let's just see what happens. And so I range him. He's at, like, 70 yard. He was like at 70 yards when I found him. And so I crept up a couple. Like, he was. His head was behind a tree, and I crept up a little bit. I range him again. He's at like 66 or something. And I dial my Sight. I'm watching him. And, dude, this is a consistent story. Cause I just screwed up my range on a deer the other day. Um, but that's why I. I don't.

I can't run the slider.

I. I dialed for. I dialed for 66. And then I'm like, okay, sweet. And then I'm watching this buck, like, waiting for him to clear to, like, for me to get a shot at him. And I'm paying attention to the situation. I'm like, dude, I can get closer. So, like, I. I creep up to, like, 62 or 61. I range again, and I'm like, perfect. And I draw that arrow back, settle it right on the spot. And I just watch that thing dunk stick on the other side of the, like, where it goes back up steep again. I just watch it sail right over his back. The deer kind of, like, looks around for a sec, and it's just like, huh. And I, like, kind of doesn't even bound off. He just kind of, like, fast walks off, and I'm like, huh. All right. So I walk up, grab my arrow, and then I go back to stock in the bull.

Well, it was right. Almost directly across from that canyon is where I made the loudest stock in history and killed where you heard me from a. No, no, no.

Oh, no, no, no, no. It's stock and deer. Stock and deer.

Yeah. Yeah.

That was your turn. Yeah. So I.

We saw these deer moving uphill, you know, kind of more side hill. But going into that canyon, it was perfect, too.

And I think maybe someone can learn from that as well. Because it was late enough in the evening, the thermals were coming downhill, and the bucks were feeding up into the wind. So you had to come down behind them, right, to get around.

Yeah. So I dropped the elevation and then swung to the bottom of. It's kind of a washout. It gets cliffy at the bottom, and then there's a small Creek, and there's 10 to 15 foot, either cliff or little washout dirt, steep pouch patches. And a nice four point was running with a fork and horn. And I worked my way up, staying on top of the washout. Because once you're in that, you couldn't see out. I'm picking my way, picking my way. And I can see the rump of the fork, and I'm like, maybe I can drop down this little steep spot and then swing up in front and be right below that, that four point. So I'm still trying to watch that fork it horn as I took. I'm trying to just. I'm trying to be real quiet, real sneaky. I even have an arrow knocked because I was thinking, depending on where he's at, maybe he's in the bottom. Not really sure. Should have looked down. And I ended up just rolling my way to the bottom down this hill. Luckily, I didn't stick myself with the arrow. But you were sitting, I don't know, 200 plus yards away and heard me fall.

Yeah.

I was like, oh, that's not good.

Yeah. So I never saw the four point once I got in there.

Once you got the bottom.

Yeah.

Once you got to spitting the dirt out of your mouth and, like, picking yourself up, I like, rode my face.

Down for part of it rolled. I looked up, My arrow was still sitting towards the top. Luckily, I didn't mess the bow up. But, man, that was unfortunate.

But it was brutal, dude. The other thing, and I think it's fun to, like, recap kind of some of these stocks that happened last year, because I think the way that you and I approach them, I mean, you think about me coming up from underneath that deer and bump. I mean, like, I ran into him. Right. But he didn't know I was there because the wind was sucking down. It was that late in the evening. And you did the same thing. The wind was sucking down. And then we had a different stock where these deer go into the dark timber. And I'm pretty sure our conversation was something to the effect of, this is low percentage. This is real low. We're gonna send it anyway. Right?

100%, I think, before we started the stock and said, if we even see them, this is gonna be a miracle.

Yeah.

I don't think we did see them, did we? We heard them.

We heard them.

Yeah.

But that one was like the wind was still figuring itself out in the middle of the morning, Late morning.

And yeah, we had swirls and crosswind everything.

Yeah.

And it's one of those things. Like, I think I was heading out at noon or right after that or something. So I was like, oh, let's just go send this. And, like, if I'm late, that's fine. That's a good reason. But. But basically, it was super fun to hunt with you that way. I mean, we've hunted deer in the past before, but it's fun because when you're hunting with someone who's hunted deer a lot with a bow, you just know exactly what the other guy's thinking and doing as he's doing it. You don't have to say anything. You don't have to like. It's not like anything I say is going to change your move. Because I would do the same exact move. Right.

Yeah, it, it is nice. No real coaching or like, oh no, where are they going to be peeking out at? Because we put on some pretty great stocks together. I think when I'm, you know, deer hunting in general, it's just. Yeah, there's a lot of it that if you're new to it, there's a lot to pick up. And I think the best way to learn it is just putting on as many stocks as you can get, which is tough.

It's tough if someone's trying to be picky right now.

Oh, oh yeah.

Because it's just like look, the days of there being four points on every hill is like not existing. I don't know if it ever existed wherever I was hunting. But it definitely is. Is very low opportunity if you're trying to be picky. I don't think guys like look in the name of mule deer conservation, like sure would I want everyone shooting 9, 10 year old bucks every day. Yeah, I've never done that. But I do think if guy wants to be good at it, you just gotta lay down stocks, man.

I think there's no better way. You just learn by doing it and you just pick up little things that you didn't know before. I really think the more stocks you can do, even if you're not sure if you're gonna shoot something and you have nothing else in your sight and it's getting to that point in the day that you're gonna have little dead time where you're just beating glass. Just put a stock on even if you decide to not shoot it. See if you can get into range.

Yeah, yeah, it is.

I think it's just a valuable thing and you can't replace that. I guess being able to get close to something and really know what you're doing, playing the wind and stuff. Because I've blown. I blow stocks every season. I feel like I stock a lot of deer and I still blow stocks all the time. I think just doing it over and over again is just a good move.

So do you think in the spectrum of animals that you've stocked with a bow, are deer relatively easy to get into archery range of or are they relatively hard to get to archery range of?

I think that's a. I'd say they're pretty hard. I think getting to archery range on an antelope, if you're talking spot and stock, could even be harder But I don't get nearly as mad when I blow an antelope stock as I do when I blow a deer stock. So there's maybe a little bit of a mental thing there. I think you can get to that 150 yards relatively easy, but getting that next a hundred yards down feels tough.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It feels like a challenge to get. It is kind of funny, dude. I. My first stock went perfectly and I shot a deer at like 18 yards. The shot didn't go perfectly, but that's a different story. But what was like the first textbook stock that you ever made? Like, what was the whole scenario and how, how did it play out?

So I was glassing, I was out in that cedar country.

Some ground. Yeah.

Low ground.

Yep.

So kind of break. There's breaks and draws and stuff. And we saw a buck and the wind was still pulling up. It was early enough in the day and I hiked around and came from the top and knew that the deer were going to kind of feed around the corner. And there was two or three bucks in the group that I would have shot. They were still bachelored up. I am a big fan. We've talked about it before where if I can do an ambush situation instead of like a true stalk them where they're at, if I can be in front of them, there's something I think about them moving and you not moving, that just gives you an advantage. We've talked about that before. If I can be in front of where I know something's going or think it's going to go, I'll take that almost every time over moving in on it. I just think that when they're moving, maybe there's. I don't know, you have just a little advantage there of, you know, they're not standing still so that maybe they're making some noise, they're looking around, things are changing around them. And instead of. You're the new thing in this scenario.

Yeah.

So I got maybe 80, 90 yards above them and just was in the position. I knew they were going to come right by me. And it was about 42 yards. And a really nice double crowned buck walked at about 42ish yards. And I got a good hit on him and recovered him.

So how far, how far did he go? Like, was it like you had to wait for him to die type of deal or did he watch him tip over?

Yeah, I didn't get great penetration. I was shooting mechanical at the time. I'm not even gonna open up that can of worms. But I didn't get as good a penetration as I wanted. We didn't recover him for a couple weeks and then found him. He had done the classic fish hook. I think that's a big one too. After you hit a buck, a fish hook, I feel like they do that all the time. Wait, then you're going to recover them?

Yeah.

Describe that. So like, let's just say someone does make a great stock. Hits a buck mid body and it's like that they should die. But I don't know how long. What kind of. What are you looking for?

So I'm really looking for that initial run. We almost always see that. Especially if you have a pretty good hit. Not sure how good but you're pretty sure you're gonna kill it. Yeah, you get that downhill sprint or hop and then you lose sight of em. Just make sure you know where they went in. Try to get your initial tracks. I'm a big fan of the weight. Bumping them out of that first bed is the worst. And then hooking back uphill in one of those directions almost back up towards you. Maybe around the corner in the back uphill or back through a bottom. Not a straight line. I've almost never seen them go straight. The buck I shot, what was it two, three years ago that you and I talked about? I hit him. I was a little far back, only got one lung and he had ran onto Private and I watched him run downhill through this bottom. Went looking that next day. Got permission from the landowner, didn't find him. Wasn't sure what happened. I went back onto the public side and just glassed and found where a coyote came. It was almost straight across from where I shot him. So he ended up coming back up hill into some thick stuff and dying. So there's one of those fish hook moves and I really do think a lot of the time giving them that time to die. So one, you're not bumping them out of that bed and two, if you don't see exactly where they go down and you start losing blood and sign try picking like you'll see contours in a. You know where it's going to be an easy hiding spot where it's going to be out of vision and checking back up towards those fish hooking spots. It. I've had a lot of luck with that dude.

That's. That's really good. And I think a lot of people just the way that deer like to live near Private because usually Private has the water or you know, maybe there's less hunting pressure or More feed. Yeah. I think a lot of mule deer hunters are having to hunt kind of near private. What's your go to? Like, if you see your deer that has an arrow in it, run onto private. Like, how are you getting a hold of those folks? And maybe it's a little bit different because you've grown up in a lot of the areas that you're hunting. So you know people. But what's your. What's your go to?

I think for me, I like to watch and know exactly where they went over. So, you know, landowners, just the day we live in, there's a lot of people that aren't doing things how they should. So knowing exactly where the deer went over in case they want some proof of, well, did you really shoot it up there? Things like that is a big one to me. So I can know. And most landowners, when you go to them to say, like, look, something's down underground, the fact you're reaching out does a lot. And then just doing exactly how they ask you to. If they ask you to not come out with, you know, a rifle or you're gonna have to walk through the. That specific one, it's about four miles on public, and then it's private. Where the. I thought the deer died. He didn't. But where he went on to. And he's like, you're gonna come in on public and you're gonna pack it out on public.

So don't back it through my place, but I'll let you look for it.

Exactly. So I think, you know, you can get. You're not going to win with an attitude. So that's how they want you to do it. Just being. Letting them know exactly what happened. If they want to see the spots, just have things marked, whether it's waypoints or whatever, just so if they do want to. You're trying to build confidence to be able to access the ground and get something recovered. So I think transparency is a huge one.

Yeah.

And then just doing it how they ask.

It's funny, dude. I mean, I think landowners in general, you know, I try to be empathetic. I mean, both of us grew up working on ranches, living on ranches. Our family had ranches. And it's important to be empathetic, to be like, they probably get some real jack wagons like that come.

Oh, yeah.

Come through. Right. But it's weird. Like, I. When you and I killed a buck together, we called all the landowners to try to get through quicker, and none of them. None of them gave out. It was like three Landowners that were lined up that would have been closer to getting to the road than the way we had to go. And none of them said we could go through there. And then I actually got a call from one of them the next day. It was like, did you guys go through our place? I was like, no, you said I couldn't. So that's just kind of the distrust that they have with guys, I think most of the time.

And I think we all are a little bit wired that way, especially how things are. I don't know. I think more and more there's some frustration there. And, you know, people are either outfitted or trying to make money and there, it's understandable, but I think you gain a lot more, even if it's just doing the right thing to just try to. Try to just be as nice as you can about it and do the right thing about it. I also think if you re. I'm pro. You should always recover stuff. If you got to contact the game warden to contact them, or they say no reach, that's what they're there for. So just do it by the book. It's not worth getting in a bunch of trouble over.

Yeah, for sure. It's like that place where, you know, ethics and the law, like, can conflict a lot of times.

So I'm not saying that I morally always feel good about, you know, you know, where it's downed at, leaving it laying until you can get a hold of someone. But if you're truly into hunting and then, you know, want hunters to have a better name and not cause more issues with stuff, it is heartbreaking. But just go about it how you should.

Yeah.

Did you.

I know legally how you should.

Legally how you should. Yeah, I know. Like on that example, it was the next day, you got that buck. Did you lose meat or did to heat or did you lose meat to coyotes?

I would most. It was mostly the heat. Coyotes had started to tear into the hind quarter, but I shot him pretty early in the afternoon, and it was a scorcher in the probably high 80s, maybe into 90. And then I didn't find him till midday the next day because I was pretty heartbroken about it. I thought I had at least a decent, decent shot. I knew it was a bit far back, but I was like, there's no way this deer isn't downed or really hurt somewhere. So I just was sitting on a hilltop, glassing, seeing if I could pick him up. Maybe he is just limping sick somewhere. And, yeah, lo and behold, a coyote and just came Squirting out of, like, these really thick cedars. There's gotta be something down there. And I went peeking. I had to crawl into him. I don't. Just because of how thick it was. I ordered him up and took care of him in this little brush patch, but it was. He just crawled into a deep, dark hole. After that fish hook. He didn't go back uphill much, but he did. There's something about fish hook. I've spooked deer. And then seeing him kind of when I think I can maybe stock down to them, look back and they're above me now. I think a lot of mule deer feel that down and then back up.

I hear a lot of guys talk about that, even in the mountains, when you're tracking a deer, because they'll see, like, their track starts going uphill, and then they, like the old timey trackers will go like, well, that's not good. And then they back out and then swing uphill to try to get above it, because that deer is going to be watching below it, you know, watching this back trail.

Well, if you think about it, it's. A straight line's a lot easier to track than, you know, a fish hook. And then they're probably trying to play wind. I. I'm not going to pretend that I know exactly what they're doing. It's just something I've seen a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's.

That's a good one. So one of the things I. I'm envious. Envious of is the fact you kill a lot, Like a handful of hardhorn bucks. And have you shot a velvet deer with your bow?

I haven't. I've never got a velvet buck, which.

Is funny because I've only shot velvet bucks with my boat, which I don't understand how that works out, but here we are. So you're hunting these deer, like, when they are stuffing into some thicker stuff. Do you think that it. Things change as you see them rub their velvet off? And like, how do your attack exchange when they do?

I.

Well, we all know as soon as they rub that velvet off, they go into thicker stuff, and their patterns change quite a lot. I think that's why I'm a big fan of the ambush stock, Because I might pick them up where they're bedded in the shade or in something thick, that I'm not going to be able to close that distance. And even if I could, there's no shot lane. So I'll find the edges of that and sit there and wait for them. To come out. And some of those ambushes at the end, you still have to close some distance, but you kind of put yourself in the right spot before they've even started to move. So it's also a painful. I would. The velvet buck you killed when I was there, that was a borderline. The ambush, right?

Yeah.

So we were on him in the bed. But the idea is I'm not gonna try to shoot him in his bed. I'm just gonna wait till he decides to move things like that. I like getting in that kind of range. I think it just opens up options. It's also a danger because your wind can switch. They can move if, if you can't see where they're bedded, they might. I've had it happen where they come out completely to the other side of what you thought you never saw. So not saying it's a perfect situation, but I find that the shot quality during that time is.

Can use a lot better.

Yeah, yeah.

It doesn't feel rushed. You know, they're not. They don't pin you down and then you're. Oh, crap. Should I draw? Should I not draw?

Yeah, you say that, but, dude, when I was with you and I was. I could see the antlers on one of the. There's two bucks bedded under a rock that had a bunch of brush above it. So there was no chance. I mean, of course, like, the thought goes through my mind, maybe just crawl on that big ass boulder and shoot down. But like, there's a giant bush that also is covering them. I could just see their antlers in it. And I was so hyper focused on the one on the right. I didn't see the buck walk out on the left. And I was like, that's when he popped into my peripheral. I was like, oh, like it's time to make the thing happen. But one of the things I didn't understand and now I get from that experience and talking to you, I get it a little bit more. When they're up feeding, they don't, they don't really care that you're just a bump on a rock like 40 yards away.

Yeah. You're not moving. We all know that. It's movement catches eyes more than anything. I would love to have, you know, a camo deal and stuff, but I, I. That movement is killer. So if they can be the one moving to you instead of you moving to them, you just eliminate one of the worst things.

Yeah. And I was s. I was like sitting in the wide ass open on top of a flat Rock. Like, it wasn't like a. Oh, man, I was getting roasted, but it wasn't like I had any cover. And that was one of the biggest things that I think I learned from that. It was just like, oh, if they're up feeding and you're sitting still, like, they're not going to know that you're there. Which I probably. I had way more time than I expected to make that shot. Um, which is why I didn't get a good range. The first shot got him on the second one, so it worked out fine.

But, yeah, still counts.

I. I'm so far on a. On a good long streak here of giving warning shots and. And, you know, just giving them fair chase.

I'm not sure if that's what they mean by fair chase, but I think good for you.

I read it. I read it in Eastman somewhere. I promise.

It'S more sporting to give a warning shot.

Yeah. That's funny. For everyone who doesn't know, because I write for Eastmans, so just to clarify, that's a joke because I write for them anyway. So once it gets to, like, later October, I mean, it kind of. Or later September, it kind of reminds me a lot more of the situation in the mountains where we were last year. I almost said the unit, and I was like, wait, wait, don't do that. But that was as early as September 8th, that buck was rubbed off and was. Was stuffing himself in the timber. Do you think, like, low country, high country, doesn't matter. Basically, three quarters of the month of September, you're spending time putting yourself into those kind of ambushy type positions.

You know, I. I'd say it really depends on what I'm seeing. But when you talk about rubbing velvet off, I'd say if you're not. If you haven't got them down on that first week of September, there's very few velvet bucks. Bucks left. So with wyoming being that September 1st opener, unless you are really with it, which apparently I'm not. I'm not getting things down that first week. I think it's pretty tough to get one that's going to be still. You know, I. I'll still see them in bachelor groups, but definitely not to the same extent as when they're in velvet.

Yeah.

They start breaking off and doing their own things.

Yeah.

And their patterns change and they spend a lot more of the day just in a little bit thicker stuff.

Yeah.

But I think it really does boil down you. And I love to beat glass, and I think mule deer hunting, and I'm not The first guy to probably think that. But sitting down and just picking stuff apart is just what you have to do.

Yeah.

If you can't see the shade, you're not going to see the deer. So if you find your glassing into something that you can't see the shade, I'm not saying it's useless. You can still pick out things but put yourself where you can see where the shade is getting cast. And then I love a midday move because you might be looking in a spot and then all of a sudden it's 2pm and deer are switching beds and then there's three bucks that pop up and move around to like a different corner or a different side of what they were on. And you've been swore there wasn't a deer there.

Yeah.

So when I'm also a big mountain nap guy. But if you don't have to go.

Home, you've got lots of videos to prove it.

I, I take your mountain nap. But I if you can stay all day in glass, that midday move, I know it's not your morning or night move, it's that one I think can set you up for a nighttime kill pretty easily because you get that re bed and then you know from there where or less they're more or less where they're probably going to go.

So let's say you're just take it. Assume that you are feeling like you don't need a midday nap. What's like the perfect day for your glassing and like you're moving around. Like are you getting to a glassing knob? Glassing it for a little bit moving, glassing it for a little moving and then stopping middle of the day or are you moving more middle of the day? Like what's your, what's like the cadence that you like to run.

So I like getting in early of course being set up so I'm already sitting down by the time they get up is what I like. And then you know, it just depends on the area you're hunting. If you know a draw holds a lot of deer, that's a great spot. Seeing as much as you can see. And then personally unless you have a really great route on something, I like to let em bed down and then if they're in a spot that you think you can close the distance, maybe that midday move is where you get a shot. If not just I think I'm not the most patient guy but with deer hunting I think it's pretty valuable to be patient. So if you know that they're in A spot that you probably can't close that distance, wait till they re bed. It might give you an opportunity. And if not, you know, today's my last day to hunt. Then after that re bed, get to where you think that he's going to pop out or, you know, you're within that 100 yard range. So when he stands up, at least you'll be able to see where he's at and then maybe make your move. I, I'm a big fan of putting him to bed. That's what you and I have always said. You know, I'm going to watch this thing till he lays down. Because if I move now and he decides he's going to go further than what I thought, I'm now on the same hillside or I'm behind him, you know, on this ridge and I have no chance of picking them up from.

From the same side.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I like getting them in that first bed and then making the move. Then say I didn't see anything I was really interested in. And I feel like I really picked it apart, you know, that I think it's probably 11 to 1. That's when I'll make a move to a different draw or a different canyon. And then.

So are you trying to glass for their re bed, like at 1 to 3?

I think that's kind of what I've. That's what I'd say. You know, they can re bed at any time. I'm not gonna say you won't see a deer on their feet during that time, but I think that once that sun has started to come back down the other way, I think a lot of their morning beds are starting to get a little bit of sun and they don't want that. So they're gonna make that move in that window and they'll only. I've seen deer stand up for two minutes, walk 10ft, and then lay back down just in a bush at a different angle or the other side of a tree. So. But I think picking it apart during that re bedding time, all of a sudden you've looked at this same hillside for two hours and nothing. All of a sudden there's something standing there.

Yeah. Yeah.

Hey, everybody. Sorry to interrupt the podcast, but I had to take a minute to let you know that the virtual AI hunt buddy, it's, it's free. I just removed all the limits for hunting season because I wanted to make sure that everybody who has a question about their western big game hunt can find someone who has some information about it to help Them sort through the problem. And even though it's just me, but virtual, there's a ton of information that has been trained on based on real life experiences of myself, my clients and hunters, and also other people I've interviewed and written articles with in the past. Be sure to check out the AI Hunt Buddy at huntwestplanning.com backslash Virtual Hunt Buddy. If you just go tohunt west planning.com it's actually right there on the homepage. So you can just click in and go start messaging it, bouncing ideas off it, whether it's gear, how to hunt a unit, what to prepare for, that kind of thing. It's there 24 7. All right, back to the show.

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It's such a good feeling when you find something middle of the day. You're like, oh, no way this was worth it.

I think I. There was a couple years ago, I was out in that low country and kept sending you videos of one of the best midday moves I've ever seen. I had picked up 15 bucks and I had seen one buck all day.

Up until that point.

Up until that point. And I didn't know there was anything around. And I kind of closed the distance on this buck that I was interested in. And then all of a sudden that midday hit, things moved beds and there were deer everywhere that I had no idea they were there.

Dude, the other day, this is, I, I'm trying to validate this information, but the other day I was scouting for a client and I have two clients. And in the morning, like first thing in the morning, I just so happened, I was like, I wonder what the weather's doing. I just so happened to look at Onx and it said, it, it like showed me the deer movement schedule or whatever and it said like deer movement 8%, which is not good. That's like a bad, bad sign. And I was like, ah, these things, they don't know what they're talking about. Like, I'm gonna find some deer. So then I went and was scouting, glassing all morning. Glass. I was on the knob right time, dude, didn't see a dang deer in the morning. And I was just like, what in the heck? And then it's like, I, I'm not joking. There's just one person's experience just the other day. But then I saw the likelihood of deer movement tick up to like 50% at like 9:30, 10 o'. Clock. And I was like, all right, well, just like keep with it. And I kept glassing kept glassing. And then all of a sudden, these deer started standing up. And I ended up glassing up, like, 10 bucks, like middle mid morning to noon. And I was like, holy crap, this is actually worth it. I think a lot of people get. I think a lot of people give up after the first morning move and don't keep looking, don't you?

Oh, a hundred percent. And everyone should hunt how they want. And if you're at camp and you want to go back and just hang out with your buddies and cook, I'm not telling anyone that they shouldn't. But especially, I think most people have to really pick your days that you can go hunting. So go. Go hunting. Like, be out there the whole day. If you want to move positions, move positions. But especially, like, if your time is limited, that's like one of the variables that you can't change. Be picking stuff apart. It gets annoying. I'll pick apart a hillside for hours. And then all of a sudden you see something. Something changes. Something's there that you didn't know was there. Or something just came in. And if you decided to go back to camp, you would not good or bad or the other. You're not there to see it, and then that's shot, and you've got no options. So, yeah, when you're there, just be there.

Yeah.

No, I like that, dude. I was just looking back and, like, my 23 buck, I glassed him up bedded. But then he got up and moved right at 12:17. And it was after the whole morning had been just blow. I didn't see a deer that morning again. So I think you're onto something there. And I gotta be thinking about how we're gonna do that. You're spending some time with me on my cow moose hunt. And I don't. I'm trying to. I'm like, trying to hedge my bets. I can't get another pack out against me for you. So, like, I'm trying to put you in a position to go kill some deer while we're up there.

Hey, you know, I'll just hold it over your head. I'm always packing out your stuff, and you always leave me to do it solo.

But if you. Yeah, and if you help me pack out a moose I like, I'm sure you're gonna tell me it counts as two. So, like, I know. I can't feel like that's fair. I know you do.

I know.

Yeah. So I'm like, over here, like, oh, boy, I'm really behind on these things. So I gotta get you. But maybe that just means I'm a better hunter than you because I've made it happen, you know?

Or I just. I don't need the help, apparently. I'll just do it alone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or maybe I'm just too loud. I've screwed up all your stocks. That's probably what's happened.

I. One of the things that. And I think this just kicks back to what we first started at. I have been really lucky and fortunate to have a lot of time during hunting season. So early on. I haven't necessarily put on as many stocks as I should because I'm waiting to see something special. And I really would tell everyone to not do that. If you see a buck that especially archery, the how picky you can be is I think you got to hunt the stock as well. So there's been times I've seen bucks that I would love to kill and there's no way to get to them. And I'm not saying don't throw a prayer out there. If you're on limited time, go for it. But I think picking the stock is really important too. Once you get those skill sets down and you understand it, you got to hunt the stock about as much as you hunt the deer. I'm pretty sure I heard that from someone else at some point. So I'm not trying to like coin that phrase, but that picking your stocks is, especially with archery deer is really important.

Yeah, it might have been South Cox. I've heard him talk about it before and he's doing this like day by day deer series. And they've been up in this mountain range for nine days and they've stocked four times. And granted he. Well, no, he's like known to be like a really dang good deer stalker. And he's still got their 0 for 4.

Right.

Like, to your point, at the beginning it's like. And then the other thing he is talking about is his like trophy expectations have gone down because he's like, dude, in order to get, you know, they had some winter kill where he's hunting. In order to get a buck in the right position, he's going to have to lower his expectations because there's just not enough deer that he's going to be guaranteed. It's. It's a big one that's in the spot where you can kill it. So it was really interesting hearing a guy who's killed multiple Booner deer with his bow go like, well, I'm gonna probably shoot a big three point this year. Like that's probably what or nothing, you.

Know, And I think that's fair. And if your desire, you know, I'm only gonna shoot a 180 deer. That's awesome. And if that's what you want to do, that's what you should do. I still think if you're not seeing it and you know, you know, I'm not gonna have time to get to this other area. And there's just talking either watching my dad's stock or just putting on stocks. It's practice. You just don't get that that often. So, yeah, if that, if you have an option to just put on a practice stock on something, do it. Yeah, I'm a big fan of that.

I, I, I'm a believer in that, too. And granted, scouting season's pretty much over by the time this publishes, but while I was scouting deer, and it was actually, it was in that midday move that I was just talking about, I saw one buck get up, and he was feeding, and I couldn't look into the ravine where he come out of. And I was like, I bet you there's more deer in there. And so I, like, I sent you this photo, and you were like, how close are you? I took a photo through my spotting scope at like 150 yards, and I couldn't see. And that was the deer that was up, couldn't see into the thing. And I was like, there should be more bucks around. So I snuck around on the rim, and I just, I didn't take my shoes off or anything. I just was like, I wonder how this. Because if he, if I blew him out while I was scouting, I'd just be like, well, at least I know what's in here.

Yeah.

But I snuck up to the edge of that rim, and I was like, 65, 70 yards away from these deer bedded. And sure enough, there was a couple more down in that, in that draw. And I was like, nice.

Good.

That was good practice. You know.

You know, one thing along with that that I love to do, I think you've seen me do it. When I blow a stalker, you know, something didn't go right.

Yeah.

And you know, more or less what range you were going to be in, you get a little bit of an adrenaline dump. Normally you're a little bit, you know, worked up. I do us, I stump shoot something at what range I think that deer was about to be at just to. Yeah, I, I think it helps me mentally work through that. Like, I don't know what it is, that mental aspect of that So I blow a stock. That deer was going to be at least how I had planned it. 52 yards. I'll pick a sage brush and whack it with a. A judo, dude.

I think it's. That's so important. Like, even last year, I did it right after the ne. I guess it was the next day because it was dark by the time I got back to you guys. But after I missed the buck on our elk hunt the next day, I set that target out at the exact same distance, 61 yards or whatever it was, and I drew back and whacked it. And I was like, yep. It was a lack of talent. It wasn't. It wasn't the bow's fault. That's for dang sure.

You know? Yeah.

I think along with all the actual hunting side of it, I think having some confidence in your bow and your ability once you're in the position is pretty invaluable.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I'm a big fan of that. I don't know when I started doing that, but, yeah, I'll do it on antelope elk if, you know, if I missed a shot at something, which happens pretty regularly, and then pick the same distance you range that and shoot something. I think there's a mental aspect to that that just. I don't know how else to. It heals you a little bit. Like, okay, so I'm fine. I just messed up this one time.

Yeah, for sure. It's. It's even something. I know it's elk hunting, but my guy missed high hit the bowl, but, like, clearly wasn't, like, a fatal hit last year. And the first thing we did, I mean, after that bull ran the. The Never Never Land, and like, we watched him disappear into the distance, it was like, okay, brother, we need to go shoot your bow. Make sure that you are, like, confident, because otherwise we're not getting another arrow in this. Dude, if you can't hit what you're aiming at.

Yeah.

But I think taking that time to go do it is invaluable. I mean, he ended up in that case. He made a perfect shot the two days later. So, yeah, yeah, it's easy to blame.

There's a huge mental aspect to that.

Yeah.

And the first thing everyone wants to do is blame the equipment, but I very rarely see that be the case.

I don't know if I've ever had an issue. You know, I'm not going to get into the broadhead debate. Not something that I'm an expert at, but I've never been able to blame an equipment failure on anything.

Yeah, I. I agree with you. And even when, like, I hit a buck, that 20, 23 buck, I had to follow, find him the next day. We used the dog tracker, and then I found out he was live and had to get another arrow in him. And I was really quick to blame the mechanical broadhead I was using because I got, like, 5 inches of penetration, like, right at the. Like. I thought if you would have got more penetration, I'd have hit hard and cut out the bottom of it and etc. But if you just hit them where you're supposed to hit them, like, it's really hard to have excuses.

I hate to say that, but yeah, I. Shot placement is more important than how heavy up front you are. How. What broadhead you're shooting just hit where you're aiming, which is a lot. Lot easier said than done, but.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. That.

That practice with that.

Yeah.

So something a little different that we're doing this year is whether or not you may or may not join us. But I know you've done these hunts quite a bit in the past, but we're gonna do some mid, late September rifle deer hunting as well. It's kind of a unique thing to, like, there's a couple places, I guess there's some. There's some, like, specialty tags in Idaho. Montana only has a couple units, and then Wyoming has a handful of units, and then Colorado. But this, like, late September rifle hunting is pretty sweet, Especially when you go up to the high country because the bucks are at the top still.

Yeah.

What do you think? Like, how do you. How did. Obviously the stock is different, but do you change how you look for deer in those high country basins?

It's just, you know, the terrain changes a little bit. I love cuts and washes, like really steep, like maybe an avalanche chute kind of looking thing, because I. They're so sucked into timber, and the timber is more available. I think it just covers up more than brushy cedar does. But just those areas that are on the edge of thick, but not thick, because it just gives you a little bit window in. And they're gonna step out there to feed. So things like that for me are really important. Just those patches next to something, hunting those edges. So if there's a. Even on, like when you look at a park or a bowl, and there'll be like two or three patches of thick trees lasting just the edge of that constantly, Whether you're picking up a bed, like a re. Bedding or them just feeding on the edge of that, moving through it. Those edges are huge.

So do you put deer to bed before you go, try to kill them when you're rifle hunting?

I think a little bit less so because your reach is so much further. It depends on what they're about to move into. But normally if I see it and I want to go after it, when I'm rifle hunting, I'll try to close as much as I can and then watch the. Where they go. It depends also if you pick them up. I don't know. Sometimes you pick those things up half a day hike away. Yeah, then I'd put it to bed. But if I'm within, I don't know, laying distance, I normally get pretty aggressive. If they're far enough away, I know I can't get there. I'll put them to bed. At least mark more or less what they went into and then get over there. But if I think I can make a run, I'm gonna make a run.

Yeah, that's one of the things I love hunting with you for because it's like they're a mile away.

Dude.

I can run a. You're like in flat conditions, I can run a six minute mile. Like I can get there, you know, like there's no problem. And I like to have.

I think I've run hunting with you more than I've run with anyone else. We've dogged places just because we're like, yeah, we could get there.

The crazy thing is we normally do.

I think it was funny we were hunting this year just on that the. It's the same stock he blew the deer on. And it was a. It was a steep bugger down and a ways over and then up. And one of the guys we were with was like, there's no way. It's getting dark. And you're like, I'll be over there in 15 minutes. Watch this. And he ditched the pack and started running downhill. It was awesome, dude.

The other thing I think people forget is like they'll be like a thousand yards away from something and trying to be sneaky. And I'm like, yo, they don't give two craps. Like, what do you think is the, what's the distance rifle hunting that you start slowing down?

I think it kind of depends on what cover I have. I love if I can. I know where they're at and I can drop distance a little bit. It'll. I'll get to 3, 400 yards before I really slow down. If I'm sure that they're not within view but if I know I'm kind of in view, I'd say that your danger zone, not maybe danger zone, they're not necessarily going to blow up but that 500 yards if they see you running, that's a pretty easy movement to pick up. That's when I'll probably start slowing down.

Yeah.

Cause a thousand yards away, if I have even a little bit of COVID and they're feeding and moving, I'm moving like I am. I'm strapping the backpack down and I am sprinting.

I just realized I've never thought about this critically but at what distance can they hear you? Like I don't. I think 300 yards I'm still. If they can't see me and I'm on the other back side of a ridge like I'm still not worried about.

Probably depends on how bad of a runner you are.

Like if you really can you last to the Mohicans this thing or are you like falling?

Yeah, yeah. If.

If you make as much noise as I did rolling down that hill, you got probably a half mile, they can hear you. That's a good point. But I think that 300 yard range, if you're slowing down pace a little bit but it's still brisk, you know, just watching to not roll rocks and get something really looking your way. I think, I really think he can get into that range and then lay down. Yeah, especially I think, you know, just like people, the thing that you see most is movement. So if you can get behind a hill, just stay there and then close that gap and then climb back uphill.

Yeah, yeah.

And everyone hates dropping down but dude, dropping behind something like that is you can get away with murder. I mean that's the goal.

But.

Yeah, I guess that's one way to put it.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

But I really do think. Yeah if you can. Even on archery stocks, I love getting on the backside of something and then just not everyone crawls on their hands and feet or hands and knees and that's what you have to do. And you're going to do that. If I can put that off for as long as possible, I'm gonna put it off for as long as possible.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. So how does your. How does. Cause I know it does. Like how does your trophy expectations change when you've got a rifle in your hand versus archery hunting?

I think just like everyone, I just get a lot more selective or something's just really gotta tickle my fancy. You know if there's something weird going on. I. I'm a big fan of a non typical. So it doesn't have to be huge if there's something really neat. But I try when I have the rifle, it's just gotta get you that much more excited because your reach is so much further. The. The chances of blowing the stock is so much less. So I aim in that 170 to 180 or something that you see stuff sometimes that, you know, I've shot a couple big three points that you see it and your head goes. Oh, yeah, that.

Yeah.

So I don't think I necessarily put a number on it super well, but get a lot more selective.

That makes a lot of sense to me. It's like I'm looking for something that goes, oh, that's the one.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I have a bad. I have a bad thing. I'll be glassing and haven't seen much and I'll see something. And I. I am an excited guy. So all of a sudden, something's super exciting and then you actually look at it for a few seconds, you realize it's not exciting. But if it stays exciting for watching it swing its head a few times, I'm normally probably going to be making a move.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think once you pull, like, you make a decision and this kind of goes back to the setup. Right. Once you see a deer, it usually takes a sec to get a clear view of, like, what he is. But then once you make a decision, it's like, all right, throw your crap in the pack and like, let's roll. You know, it's like, we're not going to just sit there and him and ha. It's like either a yes or a no. And if it's a no, that's fine. But you're losing time if you're thinking you're talking yourself into something.

Yeah.

And I think also just doing. We talk about doing justice to the critter all the time. People can talk about ground shrinkage and stuff.

Yeah.

So I'm a big fan of when you decide to shoot it. Like, be good with the. Excited about it and go. Go get it done.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

100%.

Especially with that rifle, man, I. I feel like I run more during rifle season or I met a light jog the whole time. Just because you can be a little bit more aggressive without the, you know, blowing every stock.

Yeah.

And the other piece of that, though, is, you know, we talk about you running all over the place and me running all over the place, but we go from like 0 to 100, back to 0. Like we'll run to the next spot and then we sit.

We have jogged back and forth between spotting knobs.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I think knowing we talked about this a lot is we were talking about patience or I said something about patience earlier. But knowing when to be patient and then when to go full bore because too much of either is gonna be, you know, bad for you. We talked about seeks though in Argentina. Oh yeah. So there's times you're. And it's just dead flat pan flat there most of the places. So you can't hardly see any distance. And he'll just take off damn near a jog and get to somewhere and then all of a sudden stop. And he'll be stopped for 10 minutes.

Yeah.

Just listening, looking. And then all of a sudden you look over and he's already taken off and you can't catch up to him. So just knowing when to use that. And that's a balance that I think you'll forever be adjusting. But yeah.

Yeah.

And each knowing when it's off gas and when it's breaking.

Yeah.

And each situation is a little different and it's kind of funny like talking to the. The newer guides or talking to you. And then being around the newer guides down there, they did a lot of. A lot of the same things. Like one guy was really good at moving quick, like he covers a lot of ground. And then another guy is like super slow and methodical. And like when you're hunting with the slow, methodical dude, you're like, Nico is the guy I'm thinking of. I. I would get like antsy. I'd be like, God dang it, Nico, we gotta move, man. And then we come over the next little rise and he'd be like, SEO. And I'm like, God dang it.

And I think playing to your strengths. You know, everyone I don't know talks about improving everything you're not good at, but there is times to play to your strengths.

Yeah.

If you are good at glassing, then you just plop your butt down and glass. You know, if you have two days on a tag, it is not time for self improvement. It is time to get some. A deer down.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's if you have a lot of time. It is really fun to hunt different styles. And you know, for me, I'm not much of a slow pick your way through and have a lot of close interactions. It's something I'd love to get great at. And I've over the Years I've tried to do it more, but if I need to get it done, I'm not working on the thing I know I need work on. So that's just.

Yeah.

Play with some of your strengths.

That's such a good. That's such a good point, man.

Yeah. When.

When you've got two days to make it happen, it is not time for self improvement. I like that. Well, I think it'll be kind of interesting because the place that we're going to be hunting and hopefully finding some side quest deer is pretty thick. Like it's got some thick spots which make it. And then some openings, you know, kind of like parky things. And it'll make it tough because it's not in our wheelhouse, you know, for archery especially.

And Argentina was a little different. But I've never killed a deer by slow picking through something and then getting the shot a little bit with that blacktail in Washington. But I. I think that would be fun with a bow to just slow pick through thick stuff, pick something up. I think that would be a cool one to do. That's probably what I'll try to do. Yeah, I'll try it for a day and I'll get butt hurt about it and go back to something else. But I. I think that's a skill set I'd like to work on.

Well, it's cool. I didn't plan to get a cow moose tag in the same area that I was deer hunting last year, but I was in there last year and this whole giant is probably two miles long ridge. It's kind of covered with parks, but like a lot of jack pines and like scrub pines and dude, I saw a deer on. Across the whole thing. So it's like. I think it could. I think it could be successful if you dedicate to it a little bit.

And I just have to get over being frustrated.

Yeah. And maybe I'll sit at the other end just in case you bump them to me. You know, just in case. Just.

I feel like the odds there are higher.

Yeah, probably.

But.

No, it's gonna be fun, man. I'm looking forward to spending some days on the mountain with you this year and we're gonna have a good time. I have a. I have. You said this on the phone and I knocked on wood for you also. I have to knock on wood while I repeat it. But I've got a feeling last year was such a grind for us personally. You know, something is. We're gonna have something in the cooler on this next first week.

In the first week. That'd be awesome.

Yeah.

It might just be a grouse that Matt kills with his dog in a shotgun, but I would take it.

The thing is, last year, once things started falling, it was great.

Yep.

I think I killed all three or three of my tags in a week time frame. And I had hunted for three weeks up to them. So that was kind of wild that elk was. I don't remember what day it was in the 20s. I don't remember what day exactly.

What day did the boar.

The fire start?

I think it's 25th or something. September.

Yeah.

You spent a lot of days up there.

Yeah.

And I was there every day for all that and got on to elk. Just didn't make it happen. Got one and then two days later, sold my deer, and then a couple days later got my. My goat. But, yeah, I would love to lay something down the first week this year.

Yeah, it's funny, I always, you know, whenever guys need a little pep talk, I always just feel like, dude, time and pressure make diamonds. You just don't know how much time and pressure it needs. You know, just stick with it. You'll find something.

We've said it for years now, and if you haven't been scouting, I'm not, you know, I haven't been scouting this year, so I can't dig on anybody. But time is the one thing you just can't. You can't train for. You can't make up. So, like, the more time you can squeeze into an area, whether that means you don't get your midday nap, like I love yearly.

Yeah.

Time is just one of those things that you gotta have. Or if you don't.

Yeah.

Do what you can to make up for it.

So one last, like, final question before we sign off here. A lot of people I know roll into hunts without scouting at all. Now you. That's basically what you're going to be doing this year. How does. How do things change for you?

I guess that's a fair question. I think for me, having hunted quite a bit, I know that what gets me excited. So my frame for what I'm looking for is pretty similar. And then I'd say that shifts depending on what I'm seeing and depending on the year we've talked about. Certain areas have a bunch of schmediums where you'd expect some other deer, or you find a big. A bunch of big bucks in an area you didn't expect. So it'll shift a little bit in that. But I think, yeah, that I know the general look or age class in a deer I'm going for. And then you get in there and you just make it work. Especially if you're on really constricted time between work or not having scouted. I think your pickiness needs to go down. I think that's one of the things that needs to maybe take a lower. Lower rank on your priorities.

Yeah.

Because you don't know what's in there. And the time you had to figure out what was in there is now not there. So I think I'm a lot less picky when I haven't had time to scout.

Dude, I. I am right there with you. It's like I did a Colorado hunt a couple years ago. I did an Idaho hunt last year and I knew the type of buck that I was wanting to bring home and I. I didn't see it on either hunt. And so therefore I went home. But empty handed. But had you gone in, if I'd have scouted those places and maybe knew what was there before, maybe I would have settled on a nice buck, but not a big one and just been stoked. You know, I think that's where. That's where it comes into play. And you know what? I. Because I got to hunt the whole time that I had allocated for those hunts, like, I wasn't upset about it. I was like, man, didn't see what I was looking for, but I had a good time, you know, that's.

Yeah, I think that's probably the most important thing and make the hunt what you want it to be. But I know for myself, the pickiness, if. Unless I'm okay, going home empty handed is the first thing that's going to start sliding downhill.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. Well, this has been good, man. We covered kind of A to Z. I even had notes written up and we didn't even need to look at them. So this is what I like about chatting with you.

Well, thanks for having me on, man.

Yeah, you bet. So for everyone else, if they want to follow your Instagram, you've been putting up some sweet photos. It's at Y. Not wild, right?

Yeah.

Why not wild? There's all sorts of stuff from adventures. The. A lot of hunting. So that's the main thing.

It just so happens that most of your adventures involve hunting, but there's also just adventures sands hunting in there too.

Less.

But they're there.

Yeah.

Well, cool, man. Thanks again for doing this. I'm stoked to see you in the mountains here pretty soon.

Two weeks, man. We'll be there.

I know I can't wait. So cool, man. Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, no worse. Thank you for listening to the Hunt west podcast. If you like what you heard today, the best compliment you can give is to share the show with a friend. We will see you on the next episode and we hope one day to.

See you Hunt West.