Sheep Stories: How to Hunt Bighorn Sheep with Guide and Outfitter Jimmy Owens

Foreign.

To the Hunt west podcast, here's your host, Jaden Bales.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Hunt west podcast. And this is your host, Jaden Bales. And today we're going to dive into the nuts and bolts of sheep hunting from a guy who spends a lot of time doing it, and he's very good at it. That guy is Jimmy Owens, owner and.

Operator of Lost Creek Outfitters.

You know, being the way that sheep hunting opportunities are, there are very few people who've had the opportunity to hunt and hone the craft of sheep hunting these days, like Jimmy or any of the other guides and outfitters who are working in lower 48. So I really wanted to get him on to talk about what a good sheep hunt looks like, what a good guide looks like, what the expectations are for people who maybe draw a tag and go with a guide, or. Or maybe they just draw a tag in the random and then need to get themselves prepared for a good sheep hunt. And he also just covers some of the logistical stuff that I don't think very many of us think about. Like, we think about with mule deer and elk hunting, especially in these big backcountry areas where they're using horses and mules and spending a lot of time deep in the backcountry. So I hope you enjoy this episode with Jimmy Owens. All right, so we're going to dive right into this thing. Jimmy Owens, thank you for hopping on the podcast. Are you the owner of Lost Creek Outfitters? I'm the owner. The owner, yep. How'd you get into that?

Well, I was guiding in Alaska and came back and was working for Grizz Turner. And Grizz at the time was given a chance to go to Canada. So I bought Lost Creek for me.

Wait, how long ago was that?

Eight years ago. Okay, so you weren't very old when.

You were like, I'm gonna buy this dang outfit? No, dude, I'm at 26 at that time.

Really?

Okay. How in the frick, like, were you got. You were just gotten in Alaska, but.

You grew up here?

Oh, okay.

Wyoming and Alaska. I go to Alaska until I came back in mid September, early October.

Was that just like when you. When you were in high school, did you just want a guide? Like, was that like, what you knew you're doing?

Well, to an extent. I went to college for two years, and I did not enjoy college. And my dentist actually asked me if I wanted to pack bear hides in Alaska where he guided before he decided he wanted to be on the other End of the gun or be the hunter. Not to hide it. Why not? It's not a great idea. I'm over college, so I went and packed bear hides and met my Aussie friends and all the guide buddies I have in Alaska, and we kind of stayed together for like, six straight years.

Yeah. So it feels like it's probably one of the things that it just gets in your. It gets in your system and you can't not do it. Right.

Yeah. What.

So, like, what took you to Alaska? Like, doing other stuff. You started bear hunting, but then, like, did it just snowball Bear hunting with.

Had a concession, a sheep concession. So I went, came home for two months and background sheep at last. Oh, really? He has big game backcountry guides, and he just had gotten that concession that year. So we went back into that.

So what was your first sheep hunt? I mean, you were guiding it.

Right.

But like.

But first, I'm a pack.

You're a packer.

But we've done bighorn hunts here. If I have a. Oh, really?

Oh, so you started with like a Rocky Mountain bighorn. What?

How'd that work?

Did you draw or like, did somebody else draw?

My mother has had four of these tags, and my father had one and then the mixture. My mom had one in 2000, maybe 10 or 2009, and my dad had it fall on there, and he pretty much did that. And then I had a college teacher that had towel hunting. His wife broke her pelvis. We wouldn't help him deal a bunch of cows. And my parents have had a hunting business on the range our whole life. So these had hunters around.

Got it. So you were. You were basically just. You earned your way in because you were a good hand and could pack meat.

Yeah. In the last week. How to be a packer for 60 days before you can ever have a guide license. So you're a packer no matter what you tell. Yeah.

So, okay.

First 60 days, you're a pack.

Okay, got it. So now with Lost Creek, where are you guys mostly, like, based out of?

We have a place in Cody. A home in Cody is. You have one camps in Cody's and do a lot of sheep. He's based out of Cody. Then you have two out camps out of D Voice.

Okay.

Then we do a bunch of private land. Hans out of gas.

Okay. So you're kind of all over the state. Really? I mean, I feel the same. Yeah, I bet you do.

Summer trips out of Marams.

Yeah. You probably have a pretty good gas bill at the end of the Year. Yeah. Yeah, that's funny. So do you do any sheep hunts.

Out of the Dubois place too?

We do, yeah. So it's just the Cody is kind of the heart of it. And then everything else, like out of.

Dubois 4 and 5, they can hunt both those units out of there. From a Cody side, you can hunt 185. You're gonna access all those email chains?

Yeah. What percentage of guys are you taking that are non residents? Sure.

Before they went to 9010 it was 100% of them. Today it's probably 20.

Oh really? So you get like 80. You get a lot of residents hired? Yeah, yeah.

There's only 13 non residents hiring one through five up to what? To 9010. So if you're gonna take very many sheep.

That makes sense. Why are the. Why are the residents hiring you?

Well, if you don't, I mean not.

Just you, but I mean an outfitter, right? Yeah.

If you don't have stock in the hunt sheet in those units, you have to have stock and probably the biggest push is turn into a once in a lifetime tag.

So even you're like, I can't half.

You're not going to get a second run so you might as well hire.

Somebody that makes sense. What, so are your guys up there like scouting all summer long or like.

He'S got a lot in our list and I'm right before, see summer trips through June and July is all summer trips and a little bit in phobia. Then you go scalp sheep and all of a sudden sheep are habitual. By this time you kill 120 sheep. Since that own day, we know where sheep are going to be like they have the jewel. They're in their normal.

So is it kind of like a mule deer where they'll be like in the same case and like they speak like the same band of rams or whatever.

Like they're going to be back in where sheep should be. I mean occasionally you find them or you normally don't find them, but most of the time they're sheeple or sheep ship.

That's cool. So are you, are you just like what's the game plan when you're looking for sheep? Is it like deer where you're getting high and glass in like first, first light or is it like something you can do all day?

We can hunt sheep all day. I hunt a lot of sheep like you do. Big meal deer get up high glass. I go find rams, go bedding in the trees. Especially early big rams are disappear and you know, give you the first 20 minutes of daylight and right before dark. And mean, not all sheep act that way, but some big guys do.

Really? So I think you said they timber up, like, so the big rams will act kind of like a big mule deer where they, like just go high.

A lot of, you know, they'll get in the shade, go timber up. If they're not way up high, they'd be down more and want to shoot good in the trees.

Okay, so that's basically you're saying, I mean, you got to be on the glass and like paying attention. You like digging around?

I'd rather glass all day than hike all day. I mean, you'll kill a lot more kind of glass if never were walking, trotting around.

Yeah. So is that basically like the daily, like, I don't know, game plan is like just ride up to the high.

Point and then just sit glass. And there's always two or three guides on every bunk who split up and cover a lot of country and glass.

So would you rather take a client who can hike a lot or take a client who can glass?

Well, I'd rather take flank. They can shoot well than anything. Yeah.

Okay. Shooting, that's number one.

They don't have to blast. We'll find them a sheet. Yeah, I mean, it's way easier to have a guy that can shoot than a guy that can hike and can't shoot.

Yeah, yeah. How far are your shots normally? Like in this kind of.

I try really hard not to let anyone shoot over 400 yards. We can get that far. I mean, there's some guys that. As if we can. Today's technology that makes longer shots pop so bad. Yeah, I'm not totally in love with them yet. So.

Yeah.

Are you using a lot of your.

Rifles or do you use whatever the guys want?

Our little brother builds rifles I use. I have a long range rifle and I'm as a silencer and I prefer it used, but some people think they need to use their own. And.

Yeah, Legos. What. What's your brother's company like?

What's he making? Precision. Okay.

Is that out of Cody or something?

Casper.

Cool. What kind of rifle builds are you guys doing mostly? Is it like 65 type rounds or is it 7?

Like a 65 PRC? 300 PRCU is really hard to beat too, right now if you can handle the kicking of it. I mean, most of it ain't the cartilage, it's the scope on top that does it all. I mean, 270 kills shooting just fine. It's just.

Yeah.

A long range shooter like the knee caliber? Yeah.

Jack O' Connor proved that one a long time ago. Right. T7s are just fine.

Yeah. Well go. You can get close and do it. They're not the long range domes like the modern calibers are.

That makes sense. So you're saying like if you're. If you're talking to a guy and let's just say he's got a 3006 from 1954 or whatever, like you'd rather him put a good scope on it than upgrade.

The rifle stuff makes all the difference in the world. I mean you take a factory gun today and make shield with a scope. Yeah, scope. I mean put a dial turret on anything and they work in factory guns so you don't shoot that far off.

Yeah.

Do you have the want to spend.

Yeah. Do you have any issues with guys getting up there and like their turrets are off based on the calculation because you're all of a sudden at 11,000ft.

Or is that if you're within 500 yards of edge matter, you're within Danny there. I mean you're past 500 yards, it makes a huge difference.

Okay, but that's like you're saying like. Yeah, if you're in 500 yards, don't worry about it.

You don't have to face. I have to say that the big wins. I mean there can be some winds, right, three or 400 yards. But if you're in a bulls, you don't have to come up with a good calculation to shoot.

Yeah. I had a friend of mine, he's like a client of mine and he has a Dall sheep hunt. He was like man, I'm shooting out to 500 yards. And he's like, I'm shooting, I'm shooting right. He's like, I think it's the rifle barrel twist. And I was like brother, I don't think you need to worry about that. Like turn of the earth.

Yeah.

Not the Coriolis effect at 300 yards. Yeah. Like come on. No, no. So yeah. Would you say a lot of guys. Do a lot of guys come like over prepared like thinking about it, they're.

Just like sheep hunter showing up over.

I didn't think so. What's the most the time? What are they lacking? Is it like the gears?

I mean today the drow system, everyone is older than people. It's not easy to get in shape at 65, 70 years old. Yeah. Our honeys are have a lot of age.

So how do you work? How do you work with like a Old, out of shape person that it'll grow slow.

We have to. I mean, that's our corneas today. But just takes time. We just got to go slow. You got to. You can't go any harder than they can.

Yeah, that's a good point. So you're basically like, are you having to put these horses in some wild spots to get them closer? And like, you don't have to. You have to.

And you have to get them close and you don't take the. I mean, every time you do a stock, it's a stock that I feel that it's going to succeed every time. Because most of these guys don't have two or three stocks there. They got one. Yeah, you got one. And you better make it work.

Okay, so you're not. You're not pushing the envelope, really. You're just like. Have you had any big horse wrecks trying to get guys closer or anything like that?

No, I ride a lot of those moves on.

You still have wrecks. Do you think that's like if someone wants to get into back. Backcountry stock, like just go mules.

I mean, there's great horses out there. There's nothing against horses. Mules really can take the upcountry mystique country.

Yeah, I can see that. Do you. Do you ever get guys that can backpack or something and like do that?

People that can really back test them.

It's.

You've got the stocks and just use them. Why would you wouldn't go away from the thing that makes it a lot easier. I mean, it's way better to backpack. Once you get all the way up there, there's no reason you start from Phil.

Yeah, that's a good point. Well, we always, like my friends and I, whenever we're looking for either old deer or old elk, we always just try to like find some place where a horse guy can't get and try to find that like next level or whatever. Is that. Do you have to get off the horse trails to find next level sheep or is it kind of like usually you can make it work.

I mean, you can. There's definitely areas that are like areas that people don't go to, a lot of them uncleared trails that haven't seen a saw in a lot of years. I mean, she even get old there. Our sheep season, 60 days, like the mule deer you're hunting. That season's 10 bays long. So they're those days that stay in the mouth of the base. We at Weta, sheep are coming out of the mountain. They're going to come to a place that's way more accessible.

So you can kind of wait until they move into the spot you need them to.

Yeah, you get pushed out of something, there's still some sheep that stay in place that no one does too. They can 11 years old and get big.

Yeah. What are you looking for in like a big sheep? I, I like I was talking to somebody earlier today that I'm like, dude, I don't know if I could tell, you know, a five year old ram from a. I picked up a deadhead that was like six or seven, you know, depending on how you count it. And it was like it looked big to me, you know.

Yeah, I try really hard. We don't have an age rule in Wyoming anymore and I really try hard with our guide. You don't kill sheep under 8 years old. I think that should be a law. But we tried for rams over eight years old and Wyoming's not known for giant rans. Eight years old and broomed is a climbing sheep and that's what we shoot for.

Is that when they're like eight and broomed, like what's the average score on.

Those say 62 to 160. Set them somewhere in there and yeah, no, they got bigger bases. Area 5 has a little better basis. Area 2 has a little longer sheet. High school a little bit better. Yeah. Somewhere in there. I mean there's not very many rants of overrun set of yet. And honesty I said to you, I mean that's not. But our sheep are 180. I mean there's one or two in the whole state killed a year that are that really.

Okay, so are you guys are all of your client or all of your guides just outfitted with like swaro and like the best stuff to get the best everything you use.

I'm a green team.

Yeah. Yeah. So you're counting. Are you counting rings or are you just like making a good educated guess? Like we're looking at a.

We don't have to count ring but it's an educated guest. Sheep normally start grooming at five to six years old. So I mean if they're brun two to three fingers big, they should be eight year old clutch.

Oh, that's kind of the rule of thumb you go by. Okay. How often are these guys trying to combo up a sheep hunt with something else?

Is that ever a thing? Pretty hard to do combo hunts here and all that. Most of these elk they could do. Residents can buy a general elk tank. But when the Sheep hunts come out non residents really can't get those elk tags. So that draws due at the end of January. Sheep aren't due for the end or.

Yeah, stuff like that. Yeah.

So it's not really.

No.

I mean NAMI's not known for combo hunts anymore. Even our deer and antelope or populations are so low it's hard to have combo hunts on deer and antelope and that was real common 10 years ago after.

Yeah.

22 winter combo hunts. I mean they're hard to come by.

Yeah, they're all. Especially if it's not like in that northeast corner or whatever where it's just all private, you know.

Promo hunt is the only base that really works this company.

Yeah, that makes sense. So how often are you like finding critters that you want to chase outside of sheep season while sheep hunting? Like are you seeing a lot of other animals a f elk every day.

You should see elk every day.

You should.

A lot of that country mule deer don't come out of the park. I mean most of middle deer summer on our side in the Yellowstone park and you'll see a couple deer but not many until late October. Then there's piles of deer that willing out. Yeah. And some mountain goats. If you're in 1 and 2, you can see mountain goats. You see bears every day I'm visiting. Bears are the most common species in the estimore. Only rest.

Gotta see those things every day. We were just talking to Kevin Hurley and he was saying they counted like 102 on Frank's Peak last year or whatever yesterday. Like that's wild.

You get a snow when they're everywhere after that they're up there eating foreign moss. They're very safe. That's what they should be. But once it snows, they roll out to everyone else. And it's crazy when the bears just see.

That's crazy. Do you guys have. Have you had any bad incidences with bears?

Never really had a. Any bad happen. And we see bears every area. That's a joke in our elk camps. Rebel. My crew has a lot of dogs and bears and dogs don't see eye to eye. I mean we really haven't had a bear in camp. We have like 15 dogs in our camp. So. Yeah, and mules and everything else. I mean it kind of keeps away.

That makes me. I mean we were kind of talking about that earlier and I was like, I want to get a dog that just like stays in my hip now because like I didn't think about having.

Dogs would Would keep them away and at least give you fair warning if you're. That's when you're not going to have an attack. Riding a horse. I mean if that happens, there's something wrong with the bear. But it's like going through the brush. Especially like archery elk hunting and spooking them. If there's a dog bear, they can give you fair warning that that bear is there. You have it. You have a chance. If the bear is close and charges. You should have luck. Unless you real look.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean I try to practice with my pistol every summer. Like right before honey season. I'm like out here trying to click drama gras and I swear I'm so inaccurate. I still I carry bear spray because I just like I cannot. I'm not gonna hit what I'm aiming at.

Like. Oh.

At least quickly. Yeah.

No one can plan for what that is.

Yeah, that. Yeah. That's a whole other piece of it I guess is like all of a sudden your heart rate spikes and you're just like.

You're not. No anxiety.

Yeah. But you're hanging. You're hanging meat every time you get some on the ground, right? Yep.

So all our elk cancer bear bulls there a lot of times sheep hunting some gets hung. A lot of them go in bear proof metal panniers. It's the best spot of us. Oh really? A lot of those camps. I mean your camp A lot of times above trees, there's nothing to hang them in. They just cut them in and banyards.

And do it that way. Shoot. So I guess if you're. Yeah. If you're above tree line, that's about the only option.

Right. Everything has to embarrass point press.

Okay. Is that a. Is that a forest rule like all.

All outfitters have to do on any bare areas? They all. And it's not just outfitters. It's everybody and you. Every public everyone in hell I'd be bear and okay.

That's specifically with the. The horsebacking. Yeah. Can just average people like members of the public use the poles? Oh yeah.

That's who they're actually made for is the public. Oh say a frown upon the outfitters using those campsites.

Oh, okay. Gotcha.

And more general public campsites that have the barrels and meat boxes and all in.

Okay. Does it. Would it bother you then if like someone's using them or is it more.

The other way around?

Usually if you're like they're all human. There's just not that many people back.

There usually mountains don't help the number of people they used to. But when I mean a pan just like the panniers we take on our saddle horses. Not everyone's a forest service provides us most our sheep cans don't have the forest service with Miller.

Yeah. Most of those sheep camps are they like. Are you having to kind of, like, haul in water and like, do stuff like that, or is it not best.

You kind of camp at last water when you had eight or ten head out or you got to be on water. You can. You can't camp away from water. And it's still off the beaten path. You don't stay on, like, main trails. No. There.

Yeah. Oh, that makes sense. So what's the number one thing that like, drives you nuts like, about. I don't know, running into members of the public or whatever back there? Is there anything.

And there are a lot of sheep hunts. You don't see very many people. Most of the people I see. I know.

Thank you, Clay.

That.

That we're the only guys that have the.

There's like four or five starfish as the main ones would be sheep hunts. And we all get along for the most car. Well, more or less friends. So it doesn't bother you to see your own friends. The way the spike camp rules are, we're all kind of spread out the first 10 days of September. You might see someone else after that. Or there see us.

Okay. That's pretty nice then. I mean, you're just back there by yourself. Yeah.

I mean, there isn't very many sheep tags. He already. Is it. Not to me.

Really.

Out sheet month.

Yeah.

As units, 85 sheet tags, something.

And you're still not glassing down to the basin, seeing guys. Elk hunting or whatever.

Like, not much possible, but better nothing. You know, I'm always aware. Yeah.

What's the biggest ram you guys have ever taken out?

Was that sheepy Rubber Cubby in 83.

183. Was that, like, in a 5 or something? It was an E5. Yeah. I think that that's why that. That unit. I mean, it's a giant freaking area. But that still stays at the top of everyone's radar. You know, it's like that's the. That's the one that people have heard of those in at least a couple killed.

Another in Area 3 had a giant killed in it seven or eight years ago. You have Coy Fisher's. That has got a monster in there. Other real big guys came out of Area 2, but they all have. And they all Have a chance to have a big sheet. They're an area 5 probably has the biggest reins on.

Do you think it's just because there's more to choose from or. I don't know. You're like I don't know man. I hunt them.

I have bigger bases. I think it's genetics. Five sheep have bigger bases. Every four inch hiding. There's a monster been filming for too. It's just bar and fewer between. They just have bigger bases and they're all the same length. So you just kill a sheep with bigger bases. You can still better.

Yeah. It's kind of like a pronghorn then that way, right? Yeah.

They're all going to be 35, 37 inches long nor no knee. But a lot of difference between a 14 inch base and 15 and a half.

Yeah.

How do you.

How do you score sheep? Is it like a pronghorn or you're.

Taking it is length. Okay. And then divide the shortest or the longest side by four and full base Presley are divided by five full bait. So at the base 1/4, 2/4 degrees of your order. Okay.

So it's just like the length on a. On a pronghorn in that way, right? Yeah. I think just add up both sides.

Or okay, that's pretty good. In top you subtract, you know minus if they not.

Yeah but nets are for fishing, man. Like no way. Oh that's pretty sweet though. So if you know and we kind of touched on it but just like to put a fine point on it. Like if a guy was to suddenly randomly draw a tag and they realize, you know, four months out. Oh gosh, I got to get ready for a sheep hunt. This actually this happened to a guy I interviewed last week who got a doll sheep like hunt all the two weeks out. What would you tell him to do? Just go hit the range. Just go shoot.

Shooting. I mean you're not gonna get into shape in two weeks. I mean you can get in maybe better shape. Practice shooting. And a lot of people press back grinding. Not doll shoot. Funny if you never rode. Go to a stable somewhere and just let your muscles feel what lighting feels like. To have such a some knowledge of riding. You're going to some of the roughest, most miserable trails in all those multimaries. Getting on a horse for the first time and not knowing anything. Maybe it's better you know nothing. But yeah, those mountains are real there. I don't think we have. There's a worse trail system in North American club. We have here.

Yeah, well especially like there's just no trail crew.

You are the trail. There is no trailer, there is no trail maintenance. And I mean, I know they're steep.

Yeah, they're real steep.

Yeah, they're real.

I heard you talking to one of your guys who's gonna hunt with you next year about getting on a horse early. You know, how. How long are you guys riding in? Like all day usually or earlier.

Hunts can be a lot farther in. I mean it matters what unit you're into. Some units are five, six. I mean where we go in area four, I mean it's a day and a half ride to get there. I mean it's 12 hours.

Yeah.

And most people's body. I mean it not fun to sit in a car for 12 hours, let alone ride a horse.

So. Yeah, that's. That's true. So like I dealt with this a little bit in Argentina when we were riding horses. The guys sometimes who don't know anything about horses, they. Well, they can either be really good with them or really bad. Would you rather they just like didn't do anything and just let. Just sit there? Just sit there.

They're riding dude horses. At the end of the day they're going to follow the one in front of them. Let them do it.

Don't try that.

I heard stories of old outfitters crossing the catwalk and scary places. They just take the bridle off. The horse knows way more than the rider does. Let it do what it's supposed to.

Just grab horn and just like hope for the best. Yeah.

Just hang on. I mean they know what they're doing.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

I guess that's the whole point though, like what you're saying about not having horse wrecks. It's our mule wrecks even. Like it's just those horses are. That's what they do.

Yeah, they live there, that whole line. We take colts, there's babies, and they pack for a few years before they ever get rode up there. So know where to put their feet and how to get around the hills before someone's on them.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Do any of those cults ever blow up on you?

We do a lot of pre work before they go there to prevent that. It's not as cool to have an accident in mountain. They blow off a mountain, you don't come back for. It's very. They're not in the cricket asset. They're not getting. Livestock costs too much money today. A dumb horse costs 10,000 bucks. So I mean we try really hard to Prevent that.

Yeah. So it's not like this. I mean, so like my grandpa, he always packed horses into the wilderness. And it was like, I swear every trip they had a story, it will blow up. But like you're over here, you're like, I'm. This is my living. Like these horses are in dial try very hard.

Not that. I mean there's plenty of people that have a lot of good wrecks. They make great stories.

But you don't really want to deal with it in the moment. Right.

You have a big wreck and have an insurance claim. Your property not gonna be able to afford insurance issues. You gotta try to prevent everything to.

Screw it all up. Yeah. Did you. Were you packed in when we got a giant storm in October?

Let's see.

It was like four years ago. Or do you just get out before.

The giant storm in like 2017 when it snowed like 45 inches?

Yes.

23Rd.

Yes.

We were in and we were in Hilleberg tents, like little two man Hilleberg tents. By morning you couldn't see the top of our tents. We had 11 Ramstown, a hunter out of Montana, a warrior out of Montana. You same out that morning we got up and look at. She can see their heads in the top of their back like two miles away. Nothing you can do about it because.

You'Re not walking there, you're not riding there. Yeah.

Went out for less than enough for a week and back down.

But you were able to ride out still?

Well, the big out camper actually went out down the trail and that kind of snow is deep. But you get on the trail vor system or through it. Like on a real trail, you're not going to go through scree slopes, timber and but yeah horse and that kind of snow. That was a real snowstorm.

That was a real snowstorm. I was still in eastern Oregon at the time, but I was hunting elk that when that hit and I just remember, I mean there it was probably a foot of snow and it was some of the best elk hunting I've ever had. I was like, dude, this is freaking good.

But it's crazy. I mean that was nuts. It was like three to four feet overnight. Like it just started snowing and it didn't not quit.

Yeah, that's like a Donner Pass type snow. You guys get stuck, stuck and you're.

Kind of kind of right. The lowland didn't get that much snow was kind of like right in the middle and it kind of slowed everything down on the migration out of the park. Like there were A lot of animals above the snow and below the snow.

It was rough. Yeah. Did you guys end up like that season? Did you get a lot of migrating critters or did it thaw?

I don't know. It warmed up and came back to a normal fire.

It was a big deal. So you and I were talking about elk hunting and you said you really like hunting the later parts.

All right. I love the November elk huntings. I mean, there's nothing that beats those northwest Wyoming late elk hunts at 56, 59, the October 51 hunt. I mean, if there's some snow, those big bulls come out of the park. It's fantastic.

What do you do to hunt those? Is it different than early or like.

We hunt them out of our house on those hunts? We day hunt both those units and just hunt them out of our house.

She's riding up to the top and then.

And a lot of the elk that are migrating are only hour, hour and a half in. They're not a long ride in and they're moving.

But you're getting up hour and a half, two hours before daylight. Oh, yeah. Wake up early or I guess late. You're probably getting up three hours before getting everything ready just to get every guys like on. On track. Right. How often are you getting guys that are like, just not waking up?

They're just like, I'll wake up commissioner, tag your governor's tags. But hunters are serious. Like I, I like purchase tag hunters. Like, they're serious about hunting their animals and they spend a lot of money for the veteran.

Yeah.

That's what. And there's only 10 draw tags for either one of those units. One non resident.

Yeah.

The rest of them are commissioners, tag hunters. And those guys all show up and want to go hunting. Away it goes.

Yeah.

You hit a map in the middle of the day. So it's no big deal.

Yeah, yeah. That's always what I tell guys is like, dude, we're going to. We can take a nap from one to two or whatever and like that's fine. But like we're burning it on either end if that's the case.

Yeah.

Oh, that's cool. Do you guys. Do you guys do any deer hunts out of.

We do deer hunts. There's migration deer hunt. It's a region F tag deer coming out of the park. Got the north fork in the south fork. There's great deer honey beer numbers are. I don't say they're growing, but they're stable. We haven't lost more deer than we already had. They gave us a late tag to lent to 20 November. Heard a few big deer killed on that hunt last year. It was good.

It was a good hunt. Yeah, I like that one because, like, we were talking, you were telling me, like, you kind of get to a rock, think of fire, and just watch a deer come. Yeah.

The migration's on. It's a lot of fun, and it's just fun to go hunting. You got the right people.

It's a good time. Yeah. Are you. Are you a fan of, like, that October time frame for migration or are you looking for rut hunts for.

Oh, the migration hunt's what we normally hunt it and come out later in November, they start rutting. But those deer. And they're. They're still. Even till the 6th or 7th of November, still migrating. They're not really staged up, ruddy. Oh, the late hunt, I mean, they start ready and they're starting to get into some birds.

And most of that time then you're probably a little closer to the house too. Right. Like on the lunar range type stuff. Oh, that's sweet. Yeah, it's kind. It's been kind of funny. Like, now all that f stuff is like a ton of wilderness. And you've got the majority of it.

Or half of it, probably.

Yeah. And you've got grizzly bears up the wazoo, so you get to see why.

About every day they follow the same migration trails.

Dude, last time I was up there hunting, we were. We got to our rock that we like to watch the migration from and look over and glass up a grizzly bear eating on a deer carcass. We're like, God dang it.

That's what feeds them. They know where in deer are gonna get shot at that time of year. They're pushed off all those mile sites. They're out feeding. They're eating on carcasses and DUT files and everything else.

Yeah, that's like their main thing. Yeah. So are you guys doing any pronghorn hunts on the west side, or is it all back on your home place?

Because any antelope hunts we do are out of Castro, and there's a lot of antelope, or used to be a lot of antelope down here. And the hunting's significantly better. Where I grew up at, we had really good noodle hunting and really good animals hunt. And it's kind of hard over the west side of Continental where they're really not very good animals.

Yeah. That's some big errors. Is it? Are you guys booked way out on those hunts or who. Yeah. So you're probably like not even really advertising anything.

Very hurting privately. It's more or less. But so I mean people. That's the good majority of people want.

Yeah. Especially like on a pronghorn. Something easy to draw.

It's like. And all the private land hunts. I mean that's the unsuitable take on the 1 to 5 or 6 points. They're private land runs. It's a higher points that are public land. I mean 99 of the people can go finding it all the time. They're all. I mean it's.

Yeah.

Not truly needed outfitted hunt. It's more or less opposites to that private lane.

Yeah, exactly. I feel like the only other thing that someone could use an outfitter for is making sure you don't shoot. Yeah. Make sure you don't shoot a dink.

Yeah. But I mean that's their outfitters in need of me. The Red desert's all public random. If there's an outfitter up there, they kill some monster analty. He knows how to judge them. And yeah, there's some view to us.

Yeah. And that's chance. That's who I worked for. Yeah.

Unbelievable. They size the animal if he kills and none of them have to really hire anyone. It's all public land with a higher syndrome at least knows what he's looking at.

Yeah. It seems too like I don't know very many people who hunt pronghorn unless it's like a private place. But like hunt public land pronghorn year after year like that because it's so hard to draw. But they seem to like just be in the same spots, you know, like kind of like you're talking about genetics.

And then the feed that's in those areas, they just make bigger and better ideas.

Yeah.

And none of their big things are going to be big things for a long time.

Yeah, that's a good point. I mean that's what makes it tough when you're. You're in these deer situations where like, you know, and a whole migration gets wiped out or whatever. Then you're like, well, now we got to start from scratch. Yeah, exactly. Oh, that's cool. So how'd you get in with Wyoming wild sheep?

Well, Mead, Dominic is a very good friend of mine and Mead has two little kids and said he needed more time to take care of 7D and his kids, who wanted more time. And Mead asked me if I'd get the outfitter side on Wyoming wild sheep. A bear. I think that was like seven years ago. Now it feels like a long kind of lease. Yeah, I agreed with Mead and so I came on as did not like Wyoming Wild sheep has an outfitter position, but everyone felt there should be an outfit around there. At least I have our side on there. So yeah, meat stepped down and I put a neat spot and been here ever since.

Well, that's why I wanted you to get on because, like, you know, it's fun to talk to people who've been on a couple sheep hunts, but nobody hunts sheep as much as an outfitter guy.

Like, there's like three or four of us in the state that have hunted a lot of sheep. That's Josh Martolio, me, Dominic John Porter, Cory Fisher, Cody Brown and myself. We hunt a lot of sheep. Like that's the six dies and hunt a lot of sheep regularly.

And that's kind of it. Yeah, that's it.

The guys have all killed 8 to 15, 16 shit a year.

That's one of the things it's like I'm kind of getting nervous about is like, you're gonna lose guys who unless you're guiding, you're gonna lose guys who know what the frick to do.

Yeah. Is this that when Alfred is referred or died. There's a lot of trails that leave when they pass away. And no. No one likes to really tell everyone where they go hunting, but when they're tired, hey got to give a few hints away so the younger generation knows where to go. And there's a lot of mountains that aren't accessible to you. The old guys left that took care of them. They're just not any way into some.

Of that country any more knowledge how.

To get to some.

But yeah, I've found some of those trails that like because. And this is always hard and it takes just local knowledge, but you'll hit the bottom third of the mountain and you're like, this is interesting dong show. Like this sucks. And then you'll just find a ridge. And they'd be like, oh my God, it's a highway. It's like, yeah, some outfitter had been in there taking care of it. When he left, all the deadfall came down and like it just totally wiped it out.

And mountain don't have a lot of. There's some oak, you know, but some residents that go hunting, but not the numbers that used to. I mean a lot of those trails are birds and outfitters today.

Yeah. Didn't you say, like, there's something where this year you guys are going to.

The forest service on the Jackson side Or the Blackrock side. Cost share, not cost shares. But will more or less pay the outfitters? Did they agree to clear trails, Pay that off our tax money? Not really chaos. But what we owe them at the end of the year.

It's kind of like a tax break.

Like.

Yeah. Right off almost. Yeah.

Not have to pay them what we owe them for clearing trails. What the government cuts. There is no trail crews. Are very limited trail crews. And. And there's hundreds of thousands of miles in those mountains that had to get cleared. It's not even dead trees.

There's a lot of.

Plenty of dead trees. We gotta clear washes and not every place that washed out from the snow runoff. We gotta fix all those so it's safe for the public to cross that.

Yeah. I don't think a lot. I mean, obviously hunters will use them. Like I was telling you before, I oftentimes try not to.

Right.

Cause like, obviously that's where other people are. But every backpacker on the CDT or like every, you know, fisherman going into a thoroughfare like that, they're probably using trails that are cleared by Alfred or.

They'Re the ones that were a good majority. There's a general public. I know a few guys that clear a lot of trails that are just regular guys that like going to the villas. And they're very good at clearing trails.

You got to have a lot of time and a lot of freaking, like, ambition to be that guy, though. I mean, like, really. That's cool. Nice, man. For like, just your average hunter who's like, wanting to get into sheep stuff. Like, what do you think the best? And when I say sheep stuff, I mean like helping sheep or getting to learn more about sheep. What do you think? Like, the best way for them to do that is.

I really like our wild sheath. I feel we educate a lot of people, like, come to our banquets. You know, what's going on. And then the. The sheep center full. The youth that do this, they give out a lot of knowledge there that they're great about that that's kind of the educational path. So we're not tied together. But that's where a lot of education can happen. Behind on about a lot about. She.

Yeah, that's a good point. And a lot of people, like, will just come through going to Yellowstone or whatever. And I was like, I.

My grand.

My grandparents did last week, two weeks ago. And I was like, guys, go swing into that thing. Like, it's kind of a cool attraction.

They're. They're great educators there. And I mean, even older people can learn about sheep. I mean, that's the hardest thing is a lot of times sheep even applying. They're a once in a lifetime animal.

So it's.

You got to. It's hard to get a lot of people. That's why we have 700 members, not 50,000. There ain't very many of them hunted in Wyoming. Like there is elk and deer and everything else. So you got to get people that are dedicated and truly loved and to again, support them and get acid.

Yeah, well, that's all.

That's.

That's the whole reason why I was wanting to talk to you guys. Because, like, I just don't want people who don't hunt sheep to realize or to forget about it. Like, because it's a big thing. All you have a cut.

And our governor's tags. I'm on a big game of ice and pool issue too. And our governor's tags bring in a lot of money. We get 750 to add a million dollars a year. To get back to the gamification. You cross all the tags.

Yeah.

Out of all five that sell of our sheep beds, that money goes. 80% of it goes. So when you sell a tag like Juan wise, you should sell a governor's tag tonight. We get 10% of that for the selling agency, and then that 90% goes to the big game license foolisher. And 7% of that has to be used to a cheat. And 30% goes into the general wildlife to be used on wildlife that don't have a governor's tag or that needs extra funding. I mean, we put more or less $700,000 back into those sheep that we get to dedicate the purchase program. But when you fix habitat, it's just not sheep habitat. It's deer habitat. It's elk habitat. All wildlife live in the same areas. But you utilize the same app.

Yeah. Oh, that's good. If someone scores a raffle a commissioner's tag, which wild wild sheep has one coming up, wants to go on a hunt with you. How do they find you guys?

We have a wet page, lostcreenoutfitters.com I got cellophane. Any of it successes, just go Google.

Lost Creek outfitters and you get a hold of us. Yeah. Or just get a hold of me and I'll send them your number. Yeah. Cool, man.

Another thing. I didn't really talk about it. I do a lot of hunting in Asia. Like I started. I started out. Oh, yeah. Some buddies in Asia. 10 years ago when Josie and I went at Ibex humming there. This last fall, we're going back to Marco Polo in 2017. 7.

In the fall or what time of year do you go? July.

I go to. In July, I go to Mongolia, the Tamir and Ker at. And then this in octo or in February, we went ibex hunting. But they do ibex hunting in November, December. But Nick, not this upcoming year. But following year, we're doing Marco Polo hunting and ibex hunting in 27 and Markor hunting. We have a client that's hunting Marco. We're not hunting a Marco.

Yeah, yeah.

Nice. That's a whole world, right? Yeah. And they probably been our biggest push and help on getting governor clients. I mean, they've helped us a lot.

That's a good point. All those international guys are like, probably in that realm. But there's also some reasonable international hunts. I mean, like, people would know I.

Did a lot of.

I'm doing a lot in Argentina now. But what are those Asian hunts? Like, are they. Can they be kind of affordable or is it.

Well, today, if we're talking affordability and sheep and stone sheep hunts 100 to $125,000, you can hunt a great Marco Polo with an Ibex 75,000. So it. What is affordable? I don't know.

Yeah, exactly. Like, is it affordable for us? Maybe.

Yeah. You hunt a lot of ibex and they're 15 to $30,000. You can hunt most ibis in preorder. Yeah, that's. Most elk hunts are going for that. And is this a flight away or.

Yeah, no, that's a huge. And you don't have to draw the.

Tag, buy it, book it and go hunting. And I love it over there. He's kind of a step back in history in a lot of those countries. Or some of the turkey. I loved it. People been there for 4,000 years. It's like a history lesson and a hunting trip all in those fall.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's probably half the battle or half the fun of these international hunts is all the other stuff.

Yeah. And to see it all. And there's a lot of horned species out there that are fun to hunt. I don't think it's not more expensive than here, other than about two or three species that's the same kind of month.

Yeah, that makes sense. So would you say if someone wants to, like, dip their toe in Asian stuff, would you go ibex or like.

Ibex was a blast. I. I loved every part of it.

That was a good one.

Yeah. I mean, I'm Gonna compare it an ibex hunt it in. Where I was was not tough. They're very well managed hunting. We killed the monster ibex. We saw plenty of animals, but it, it was just a fun experience and I loved it.

Yeah. Is it kind of like wild sheep hunting out here? Is it wound goat hunting? Like what's the difference?

They rid in the kind of. They live in mountain goat kind of country. A lot of those places have roads in a lot better places. A little more hiking. We use horses on, you know some sajika san uses some horse mongolu. He's am sure use horses there on the Altai side. But turkey, the backpack out of the truck. They're spotted. It was sweet panel what to compare it to? I mean maybe like an audit hunt in Texas, but in the mountains, like I would put where we were. If you had three or four days. You're gonna kill a very good ibex with the people you go with.

Oh really? Is that. Are you booking for them or like. Okay, cool.

They're my very close friends. I work in a booth at most every hunting show. And we shool iron gutter.

That's cool, man. Yeah, man. I. That's a whole other realm. I think I. I keep forgetting like, you know, if you could just save up a couple bucks, you know, for a few years. Like I say. A couple bucks. A couple thousand. Yeah. You know, that's actually attainable. Yeah.

You know where ours are going today? I mean doll sheep hunts are over $50,000. They're. They're all getting very expensive. And you can hunt a lot overseas for that kind of money.

Yeah. And it goes a long ways.

Yeah.

Especially with those local guys. Yeah. Yeah.

On some. To go see a different culture. And some of those places, I mean, Mongolia's step back in time really is.

Yeah.

The sheep are the biggest in the world and they have a fair amount. They got a great population sheep. It's just. I mean they're 150 years behind us.

Yeah. That's what I was telling you. I went in high school and I was like. It was one of the most formative trips I ever went on because I was like, oh my gosh. Like this is. There's places that are just so far behind where we're at. Except for cell phones. Everyone's got a freaking cell phone somewhere.

They all got a smartphone. They live in. Everything they own is in a 20 foot circle. I mean, that's it.

Yeah.

Little kids at 4 years old, they're milking goats and working to keep your family going. It's pretty cool.

Oh, that's sweet, man. Well, I'll have you tell some. Some more Ibex stories sometime. That'd be. That'd be sweet.

Back on top of a.

That sounds good. Thanks for doing this, man. I really appreciate it.

Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah, you bet.

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