The Art of Calf Calling: How to Draw In Elk Without Alerting Them

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This is the Elk Hunt podcast. Home to everything, elk hunting. I'm your host, Cody rich. From fellow DIYers to elk hunting legends, we have elk hunting stories, tips, tactics and more to get you pumped for elk season. Join us every week for great elk hunting content. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Stone Glacier.

I'm excited to tell you about the.

New Sky Archer 6400. It's the pack that I'm going to be running this year. And one of the things I love about all Stone Glacier packs is the fact that I can use the pack on an eight day backpacking hunt and then turn around and kind of use it as a day pack for elk hunting. Their packs are so light that you don't need a different pack for both. They can just do both. They can be a day pack and they weigh almost nothing. Love the new Sky Archer. It's got great setup for the bow, which I'm excited about for archery hunting, but again, it works great for, you know, longer eight, ten day hunts as well. If you're interested in a new pack, go check out the new Sky Archer. The whole line of Stone Glacier packs is awesome. They kind of have something for everyone. So go check them out.

Stoneglacier.com all right, Brad, welcome to the podcast, buddy. How we doing, dude?

Good, man. It's been a while. We talked about doing this for a long time.

Well, it's been a while, but we were also hanging out all last week, so.

Yeah, true, true. We, we could have captured it live, but we had other stuff going on, so.

I know Travis was like, why don't you guys just do it in person? I was like, oh, we never really got time.

It's kind of like ran out of time. Exactly, exactly. Trying to get Drew a bear.

Didn't happen. That's right, dude. I wanted. Yeah, we've been talking about doing an elk hunting podcast for a while and man, you. You said something last week and I was like, oh, we should do an entire podcast. You're like, oh, calf call only. Calf call only.

I.

And I'm a huge believe. Like, I definitely one of the tools in the toolkit, if you will. Like, right, like, oh, yeah, you gotta be able to have like, go calf only. So I want to talk about that. I don't know, we want to tell some stories. Maybe we can talk. Who knows where to go? Like, we'll see where it goes. But let's start with the calf calling. Like, what's your, like, mindset mission? Like, what's what's the thing behind only caf calling? Is that like all the time or is that just like.

No, I, I would say if I'm in a unit that is a high pressured public land over the counter unit, especially in like open country. Yeah, you, you can watch those elk. You make a cow sound, you be bugle at him. That bull, if it's a herd bull, he'll scream his head off at you, but he continually will walk away and push his cows away. And so I think about 20, 2017 was about the last time I kind of made the decision, like, okay, I'm done cow calling because. And then, and then in 2019, I heard the analogy from Joel Turner. Or maybe it's 2018, maybe 2018, I can't remember. Anyway, Joel Turner was talking and he was like, think about it as a bar fight. He's like, what's the best way to get in a bar fight? He's like, you're, you're with your wife and another lady comes walking up to you, you know, they're standoffish or they're going to fight. Well, most time they go away. But if you have a little kid in the parking lot that's screaming her head its head off or whatever, everybody runs to that kid. And if there's some crazy lady that's drugged out yelling in the parking lot, everybody avoids her. And so, and I found success early, just calf calling when I did that. Now I would say, you know, a unit like Brian had last year where there's, it's not high pressure, it's an unlimited or a limited draw. I mean, and those elk haven't been called that much. Dude, I had an elk party. I sounded like 20 cows, 10 calves. Like bulls. I called much differently. But I've just found when I calf call, especially in those high pressure areas, cows will come in, the bulls will come in. And they all have this relaxed, chill attitude. They don't, they're not really on alert. And so I have some good video from last year that I called in this really nice bull. I just never could get a shot at him. But I had cows for like 45 minutes, even after. And I'll, I'll spill the beans here. I missed the bull, actually. I shot over top of him, just missed Judge yardage and I shot over top of him. And even after I shot, he only went like 100, 150 yards through the timber. He stayed there bugling and stuff. And for 40, 40 plus minutes I had cows and calves just walking past me, mewing like no care in the world before and after I shot. And so that was kind of just like another reminder of like, yeah, it's good to calf call because every, every animal, all the elk around are just so, so chill. And so like I said, premium unit. Yeah, I'll call a lot more when a premium unit.

Yeah, it's super interesting. And like, I mean, classic example where you guys were on that Utah tag. It's like, man, totally different story. But it's like, to me, it's like, that's. People watch YouTube, let's say, watch that video, right? And you're like, oh, man, that's what I want to do. And they want to like, have the scream fest, but then they go get an OTC Colorado tag and like, like, yeah, those are different things, man. Like, there's. They're completely different hunts. It's as far apart as, like, whitetail tactics to be able to attack. Like, it's so different. Like, you know what I mean? And like, there's just so many variations. And I'm never one of those people is like, here's what you have to do. Like, here's the tactic. Because the. The thing about Okane is there's many different versions and it's not all the same. You know, it's like they're so, so different. There's such big variation between Idaho, you know, over the counter Oregon, like Roosevelt hunting, eastern Montana, just like in that parallel line. Now go to Arizona, go to New Mexico. Like, they're all very different. And like, maybe walk through. Like, what in your mind is like, you're. When you're going to use it when you're not. Like, does it depend on the state? Does it depend on the terrain? Does it like, you know, how do you think about.

It always depends on this. Yeah, it always. And that. That's again, as you said earlier in the podcast, it's just another tool in the toolkit. Because, you know, in really open country, if. Even though it's really open, if I don't have to make a call at all, I'm going ninja. I am like, not making a peep. I have that ability to call really well, but I'm not doing it now. If I'm in really heavy timbered area, I have to call more. Like, if. Unless the elk are talking a lot, then I can slip in. I can do my stuff, but if they're not talking, I have to get them to talk. That might be a sequence. And I did this with Brian on the tag he had years ago in the Middle of day, like September 5th, it was hot, no elk were talking. But I'm like, I know there's bulls here. There have to be. And so in the middle of the day, at like 12:30, 1:00 clock in the afternoon, I started this calling sequence where I would call for four or five minutes and I just cow calf mew, back and forth conversations. And then I would end it. And again, I do this for like three to five minutes. And I would end it with just a really light bugle, almost like a bedded bull bugle. And then I would shut up for probably three to five minutes, but I would still break sticks, move brush. Like, sounded like elk still walking around. And then I go back to calling. And I did that for almost 50 minutes before the first bull popped off. And then he popped off. And then like five or six, seven other bulls popped off around us. Like, okay, we're in it. Like, we know where the elk are now. Yeah. And then we figured out how to hunt it right there. So, yes, it all depends on terrain. And I will say, in thicker country, as I said before, I call a lot more in thick country because you have to, you know, you have to bring them close, you have to get in tight with them. And now you can get in tighter because you do have a lot of COVID but you also have to pull them through those little windows that you got to shoot through and stuff. Like I said, open country. If I can get away with not calling, I never will call. And in a premium. Yeah, in a premium unit, man, I'm calling like crazy. I am sounding like a 100 head of elk. And. And I think where a lot of people mess up, too, is I never will call elk without making other natural elk sounds. Kicking rocks, stepping in water, breaking. Like, I'll put twigs in my pocket, I'll snap twigs. Because, I mean, elk are noisy. They're not like a mule deer or a bear. They're noisy. And so when they're walking around, they're breaking sticks, they're doing that stuff. And to them, I've noticed just over the years, just in my experience, anyway. Can't speak for other people, but I've noticed when you make those other external noises, the elk are much more calm. Not, maybe not even calm, but they're much more. Less on edge, I guess, when they are coming in, when you do stop calling, or if they get really close and you're still making that cow sound or call sounds, but they're like, I don't hear any other elk sounds. I Think that really puts them on alert. And again, that's just only in my experience.

But, yeah, it's a couple things there first. Well, I'll work it in reverse order, but when you talk about, like, the natural sounds a hundred thousand percent, like, just popping sticks, like just breaking branches. Because if you came up on a herd of elk that was just up, they're up feeding. I don't care if it's afternoon, if they're moving. Like, you don't hear. It's not the cadence that everyone uses for, like, calling in elk, right? No, it's, you know, you're. Yeah, yeah. And then nothing. Then pop, you know, and you might not hear anything. Like, that's all you heard it.

Yeah.

Like, it just like you. When they're moving through the timber, you know, I like to replicate that way more than, like, a cow who's trying to call in a bull. I just feel, exactly, man. Cow trying to call on a bull is, like, a rare occurrence and totally works. Don't get me wrong. Not trying to say it doesn't, but, like, totally works on the right time of day. Right, Bull, Right. Whatever.

Yep.

But so many times. And I. This has definitely evolved over 10 years to your point where you called for 50 minutes. Most people can't fathom that. Like, I've done the same thing where it's like, I know there's elk here. Like, my gut was just, there's elk here. There's elk sign. They're always there. And if you. I remember this one time I went down this whole elk sign everywhere, and I'm like, they gotta be here.

Right?

So I start setting up same. I wasn't, like, trying to call on a bull. I was trying to sound like a herd of elk was on its feet and just hanging out. So I'm like, I popped more sticks than cow calls I made. And 45 minutes later, I got, like, a bedded bull bugle. I got. Ooh, you know, just a little. I was like.

Knew they were there.

99 of dudes would have been like, locate bugle, Cal. Locate bugle. Nothing. Onto the walk away. Yeah. And it's like. And I want to try to preach. There's like, I don't want to preach. I want to stand on a soapbox and say, like, yes, that works. And if you do that for enough miles, you might get an answer. But it depends on the time of day, depends on the time of year, like, all those things. But a lot of times, man, you just have to, like, work it slow. And you get that first bugle and just like you had where it's like all sudden one and then another one and another one and you're like, okay, they're here for sure, you know. And that. That call session that took 45 minutes to get a better bull bugle ended in what I would consider a very pissed off ball coming in to kick my ass. Which is. Oh yeah, you would not have expected that from like a 45 minute, like, saf cal call breaking limbs. But I escalated over, I'll say two and a half hours, maybe three hours.

Well, even like what I was describing with Brian when I was doing that calling session, the next five days, four, four and a half, five days. Like, I truly believe I started the rut in that area. We hadn't heard hardly anything in. In three or four days being there. And the next four and five days again, this is like early September to about the 10th of September. Ish, maybe maybe the 7th. And dude, every day, every morning, all night, those elk, those bulls started going nuts. Like, they gave up their location. So we were able to hunt them a lot. Like, I didn't have a tag in this area, but I was just calling and filming for Brian. And man, it was very thick country. So shot opportunities are few and far between. But we were into elk all day, every day. We would just wait for the wind to switch. Play that right. And dude, it was incredible. Like, it's one of the best elk hunting season scenes that I've really been like, into in thick country. Like, I've been in some of those areas, like that one, open country. But in that thick country, it was. It was pretty cool to see, like, how, like I said, I truly think I started the rut. It just went. Dude, it went insane, you know, and I think, you know, I fell in love with and. And I still use an external read, like a plastic. External read is a tool in my toolkit because I can use that also use my diaphragm to sound like 10 or 12 different head of elk. Between cows, calves and stuff and mews and. And estrus calls and stuff. I can sound like a whole herd of elk. And I think I fell in love with a reed at like 10 years old. I called my first bull into my dad at 10 with an old Wayne Carlton fighting cow call. You know, you had to turn around and blow to get the. Get it to actually work, you know, get the saliva out. And then I started listening to Wayne Carlton. I started listening to like Chuck Adams and these other guys calling and stuff. And And I fell in love with the reed. And so I was like, okay, I want to. I want to master a reed, and I want to sound exactly like elk. And so, dude, I would go sit, and I were fortunate we had elk close by, you know, 10 minutes up the canyon or something where I grew up. And I would just sit and I would listen to elk without even making a sound. I would just listen to him and listen to how those cows and calves would talk. And then I got on YouTube, and YouTube was like, you know, you get to these elk ranches that they have a few videos on, and you can literally just sit there and listen to an elk. An elk naturally call. And I think that does help. You don't have to sound perfect when you're calling elk. Like, I've heard some weird sounds the elk make. You have, too, you know, But I do think when you can master that and really sound like a good cow calf conversation going on and stuff, it obviously helps with the other natural sounds you got going on. And. Yeah, so, you know, like I said years ago, when I was a kid, I just started mastering cow calling and calf calling. And so now, like, people will ask me when I help people trying to learn a diaphragm or something. They're like, how do you call sound like a calf? And right after you're making an estrus or a cow sound or back to a calf, back and forth, and it's like, I don't know, you just. It's practice. It's tons of practice, dude. Like, annoy your wife, annoy your kids. And when you're in the car by yourself, throw a diaphragm in. Like, that's what you have to do, you know?

What do you think that. What do you think people struggle with or aren't good at when it comes to calling?

I think they. A common one is people think you need to make the ew sound. Like, I don't move my lips. It's all tongue pressure. All the sounds that are made are with tongue pressure. Now I'll close my lips to make it sound quieter, louder, whatever. But if you can master tongue pressure, like, even just making. And I, like, I've talked with this with Phelps and, And. And Dirk and stuff. It was an even. Corey or whoever. They're kind of putting on a training session and we'll tell them, like, just make the stupidest sounds in the world with a diaphragm and learn to control all of that with your tongue. Once you can control the sounds, then you can make the Realistic sounds and, and the, and control the pressure and stuff like that. I think that's the biggest mistake is guys don't spend the time to really get to understand read and they don't go through enough reads to find the read that they want. Like, I love a super heavy latex read. I have buddies that I hand them the same diaphragm, brand new, and they can't make hardly a sound out of it because it's too thick and heavy, you know, and I love that. And, and so they have to go much lighter. But I would say, you know, just mastering tongue pressure. That's. I would say the number one key is mastering tongue pressure and being able to control the sounds that you want to come out.

I think even the subtle sounds, like the subtle sounds are more important. I mean, I think anyone needs to be able to make cow calf. You can do that. Great. Like it's the subtle like little chirps and go, just pull up a YouTube video of cow elk feeding or whatever. And you'll hear all these like little weird sounds like. And that really sells the realism, you know. And then, you know, once you can master that, how do you. Okay, so like scenario based. Would you say Kafka is, you know, for an over the counter unit, whatever you say Kafka is your go to would do you still locate like what's your sequence look like?

Yes. So like if I can't, if I'm not finding elk, if I'm not seeing a bunch of elk sign, like you know, droppings or pee everywhere, bedding and stuff, then I'm, I'm like, they're really not here. Like that stuff is a pretty telltale sign there's elk there in that temperature. And then it's like, okay, from there I can build off of like where do I think they are, where they're at, what's the wind doing? And I would say in that moment is like being able to actually do a little bit of, if you haven't done beforehand, doing some E scouting in there. Because then you find those benches in the timber and stuff. And elk are lazy. Like they want to walk the same plane if they can, all the way across the whole mountain range if they can. And they'll hit those benches, that's where they bed usually is in those benching area benches areas. And so I'm doing that. But like my calling sequence would be, like I said, I start off if I'm in timbered area. I'll start off with really, really light cow calf sounds. Just Like a cow and a calf just having a little conversation. And then as I go through that four and five minute, three to five minute process, I'll start to ramp it up. And then probably for the first 15 or 20 minutes, I won't throw any estrus calls in there. I'll just cow calf back and forth, sound like another cow calf. Maybe I'll throw a little longer. Not really an estrus call, but it could just be a little bit of an estrus whine in there. I'll do that a little bit. And like I said, a lot of times I'll just end it with a really, really light like location bugle. I'm not aggressive, I'm not dropping it off, I'm not doing the gut punch at the end. It's just a, like a bedded bowl, you know, something simple. And then I'll wait for four or five minutes, like I said, crunch some sticks, I'll move some rocks. If there's water, I'll walk through the water, whatever it may be, just natural sounds. And then I'll go back to calling. And after about that 20 minute to 25 minute period, I'll start throwing in some estrus wines. And that's where I start playing with my external reed and my diaphragm. And the reason I do that is because I can basically mimic like two cows fighting kind of. They're in that estrus wine. So I'll do the estrus wine with my external read and I can keep the, the mouth read in my mouth, the diaphragm in my mouth. And as soon as I stop with that external read, I throw the, I have the read in and I hit it with another estrus wine out of my diaphragm. So it sounds like two cows fighting. And then I'll go back to cow calf. And then I throw an estrous in there. And again I ramp up as I go that longer time frame. And, and that's, that's if I've like really do know there's all the other signs are there for elk, right? Again, if I'm not seeing bedding areas, then I'm moving on to a new spot, like trying to maybe another draw or another canyon to try and find that first. Or if maybe it's a spot I've been to and I know there are elk there in the past, then I do those calling sequences. But yeah, I first the history, the.

History thing is a big thing. It's like, man, you know, like this, this only comes with years of experience, but when you have areas where you're like, man, they've been here before. Like, you're willing. It's like you go to a pond, you've caught fish before. Even if you're not catching them, you're like, I know they're here. Like, you just have a lot more confidence. And like, I got to switch. I gotta switch up lure, right? And it's like, that's the same thing. It's like, I know they're here. Like, why aren't they answering? And like, I. I mean, I don't know if it's a good analogy or not. I haven't thought this one through. But like, sometimes you throw out one call and it's like a lure, and last week you caught them on that lure. But like, all of a sudden, you know, you gotta switch it up, right?

Like, yes, the feed source changed.

Yeah, right. And. And so many times that I was like, yeah, I have to switch up debates. One of those. One of those times. You know, I like the whole open reader. And I will say, like, I'm. You and I are both really good callers and we can use a read as good as anyone. And I will tell you right now, we both still use an open read. And I have 100 have multiple times where I didn't get a single answer. And I throw out that open, open call. And it's like just a different whatever. And like the answer, it's kind of like, I don't know if any turkey hunters, but like, sometimes you can do all the things in the world and you throw out an owl and like, it answers, and you're like, what the heck? You know, just like, yeah, that certain bait, right? And I very much had that. Sometimes it's calf. Like, I've done all the cow calling sequences and then just as a Hail Mary throughout, like a lost calf and a bolt answers like that fast. You're like, what the heck? Like, who knows why what? But it.

I will say this, Cody, like the estrous line with an external read. And I. And I can pretty much mimic it with my diaphragm as well. So if I don't have an external read, it's fine. But with that external read and I do an estrus wine and like, I've had a bowl of bugle before, and I would say, this is the scenario. I've had the bull bugle before and he might be moving through the trees and I'm trying to find him again and he won't answer a cow call or whatever. I will say with that external read and a long estrous one, it almost sounds like a cow elk bugle. It almost always will get that bull to bugle. Almost always. Now I'm not saying that it's pulling him in, but it at least gives up his location to me. Yeah, he will almost always bugle. And, and so I will say like that is another really good one to have in the pocket. And the first time Brian heard me, he's like, dude, it sounds like freaking wild monkeys, like fighting each other or something, you know, and it, it's, it's different. You don't hear a lot of guys do it, but you'll hear cow elk do it all the time. And it's, it's really like a cow elk bugle almost. Yeah, it's a really long estrus wine and has some high pitches and kind of raspy and almost always it'll get that bowl to Bugle if he's bugled before. Yeah.

And I think one of the keys there is like a couple things we could wrap together, which is like you were talking about just doing your e scouting, finding the benches and just kind of going in and hitting those benches. I talked about this, I don't know, a month or so ago how to hunt all day and I just went through a sequence of like, man, if you want midday, like just, you know, find these timber faces and just do hour long calling sessions, 30 minute, whatever, like, and like work, just work around this whole area. So like sometimes you'll have these like big long draws and say there's three or four benches, like I'll slip in and you know, be within earshot but not over pressuring like somewhere where the, you know, a bull can kind of come up and check it out. Do those long calling sequences, move to the next one, you know, move the next one and like that. It's way more effective than people think.

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Yeah, and I will say, and I've said this a lot, I've killed way more bulls in the middle of the day than I ever have in the, in the morning, in the evening, like I swear, 10:30, maybe 11 to 3:00 clock is I think, the perfect time to kill bulls because their cows are bedded. Those bulls kind of, they'll get up, they'll stretch, they'll go check perimeters because especially when they're rutting hard, you know, they know the cows are bedded right here. They can go check perimeters, check rubs, go wallow, whatever it may be. And it's like they're away from their cows. If you can slip in between them and their cows and, and then you do bugle, I'll say that's probably one of the most effective ways to bugles when you get between the cows and the bull, you know. But I love especially open country. I, and I, I go back to open country because I have so much experience in that like people can't fathom that I will sit on my butt and belly crawl for four hours, you know, on your butt and sliding down the mountain. But I've hunted a lot of timber as well across, you know, states of Montana and Wyoming and even parts of Idaho and, and stuff. And so it's all a little different. But man, when you can get those bulls away from their cows or get them up and moving and the cows are bedded, it's like I only got to worry about one set of eyes, man, I can slip in there and you can get away with so much movement. With elk, it's crazy. Like, as long as they don't smell me and even if they see me, it's like, okay, I sit still for 15 or 20 minutes. That cow, like, if she saw me, she's going to come back, she'll check, she'll try and catch me moving. And then after 15 minutes, she's like, I guess I. That was my mistake. And she'll go back to doing her thing. And then you can sneak in some more.

Yeah.

Now, you know, there. You can't do that. Who's there? You definitely can't bear. It's like, you know, those animals, like, they don't question their sight or their hearing, really. And elk, you can get away with a lot. Like, it blows my mind how much you can get away with elk.

No, it makes me think. I did a podcast years ago with guy named Andrew Yakovic, and he, like, one of the most. He's a super good owner. Guy's killed more. He's killed more big bulls with his tribo than I'll ever kill with a compound. But, you know, one of the things he did, and, like, we used to do something similar, but I pulled it from him. And I'll relate it to what you just said. You know, back in the old days, we in hunting Roosevelts, we used to, you know, get two guys would just start bugling, right? And we get that herd all riled up, and the other guy could just slip in, and we did that. A lot of times when we'd have a bull who would talk, talk, talk, but not come close, bull's like, man, we. We try a couple times, and he'd answer you like crazy, but as soon as you got close, he'd. He'd leave, right? And so me and somebody is my cousin would just, like, end up calling back and forth. Like, put two guys on a ridge, start calling, and, like, one guy slip in. Because, you know, when you're 500 yards away, the bull answer you every time. So just like, keep him talking. I'll get close. And we did that. Actually killed a bull like that.

And.

But he was saying as a solo hunter, one of the things he does is, like, he'll get across the canyon from a herd elk or whatever, and just get them fired up for hours. Like, you know, because you're far enough away that you're not a threat. Yeah. Get them all riled up. You, you know, mentioned, like, you started the rut. It's like, man, if you can get in open country, a lot of times it's very difficult to call them that last little bit. But all you got to do is, like, spend four or five hours getting a bowl all riled up, and then you slip over there in the evening and, like, they're all flustered. Right. The satellites are running around. It's chaos. And it's like, that's the chaos you needed. And so you can sometimes like, create that artificial.

Yeah. And I think a whole nother aspect of. I would still call it calling, but is raking, dude. Like, when you And I would say early on in the season, I think I found raking to be more effective early. And it gets them talking late in the season when they are running. Like, it gets them fired up. But for some reason. And I learned this from. Well, I mean, I started doing it, but I learned it a lot, actually, from lampers. Like, he talked about it a lot and raking, man, he. He was like those early bulls, he's like, you rake, they'll come over the top of the hill. You get like 100 yards from. You can get a little crest of the hill. He's like, you rake, you move up. He's like, here they come. And. And I think it's true, you know, Like, I've had a lot of experience with it where you just rake like that and then you rake for probably two or three minutes. And when he pipes off and he gets that pissed off bugle, it's like, okay, move up 25 yards, 30 yards, you know, get set up. Because most time he does come. No, not always. And it always depends on. On the lane he's going to pick to come into. But it is super effective. And I don't think it gets talked about enough.

Like calcul when you're raking or like, at all. Or do you just. Just rake.

No, I will. I'll. I'll make. I will either. I mean, it depends on the situation, but I will almost always make while I'm raking cow and calf sounds and stuff like that. Because then it's like, oh, there's a big herd bowl that has his cows and stuff. This other bull wants to come in, you know, and so I'm always. Yeah, like I said, if I'm in that timbered stuff and I'm making noise, like, I always will just cow calf back and forth because I think it calms them down, kind of sues them a little bit in a way.

But it's funny because I've Always done. Like, I'll just. I like to go in an area if I. If I think there's a bunch of satellites. And one scenario I'm thinking of, I watched, you know, a group of satellite bulls still together, and they went into September. And so I slip in there and I just, like, kind of lazy, but bugled nothing. Lazy bugled again like, a couple minutes later, nothing. But I started raking. And then that, you know, pipe off. And like, that's. You catch that time frame when they're, like, about to all split up, and then they're like, who is this guy? You know, my buddy James Nash uses the analogy, like, all the bulls in a pasture are completely fine until you start moving them around. And then they get all pissy, right? Like, it's like, you know, they start pushing each other around, like. Like everything was fine until you moved it around. And so, like, if you can kind of replicate that, that first week of season, you know, hunting satellite. And I hate saying satellites. Cause, like, at the same time, like, the bulls are just group bachelored up, right? Like, yeah, one of those bulls may be a herd bull, and tomorrow he may leave, right? But if you go in there, a lot of times you can kind of stir the pot a little bit. Like, if you know where some bachelor bulls are going, like, you just kind of get in there and, like, you're just other bull. And like, you're like, who is this guy, dude? So many times I'll come investigate. Usually silent, but, you know, sometimes. Yeah, sometimes they'll just, like, answer you and not come, you know, like they're there. But again, I think if you come do it again at night, it's like, you know, throwing. Throwing that. That cast out in front of them over and over.

Yeah, it's always a little hard, too, because, you know, a lot of the general seasons open a little later. Like, you know, you got Utah and some other states. Like, you get some early hunts. Like, that is prime. That is absolutely prime when you can get those bowls early. But Most of your OTC general units, they open around the 1st of September. You might have a couple days in there for that. But then after that, then they're starting to move. They're starting to look for cows. They've already split up. You know, they're not bachelored up like that anymore. So it's. Again, every area is a little different, and you have to get as much intel as you can on those areas, you know, and get as much information as you can on those areas. You know, guys, guys, Are willing to. Especially if you've done a lot of research. Like, I think guys are willing to kind of help you out. But I do your. Try and do your research. Get boots on the ground. Like experience, man, experience is. There's nothing to be said about experience like getting out and doing it. And we're very fortunate out here in the west being able to do that. You know, an east coast guy, it's hard for him to do that. Totally, man. Just having that experience. And, and I, I always say, and I probably shouldn't say this, but I'm always like, if you're in Idaho, Wyoming or Montana and you can't find elk, you should probably give up, you know, which. Like, yes and no. I mean there are certain areas in units that it is tough. It's hard. But for the most part, like, you should be able to find. I'm not saying you're gonna find a giant bull or even a 300 class bull, but I'm like, you should be able to find elk. If you're. If you're doing the work and putting the miles in and stuff, you should be able to find elk.

I did. I think it's. I had this conversation. I had a conversation with a guy, a listener last night and he's like, man, I got this one spot. Like, you know, sometimes they'll come through. Sometimes don't. As it seems like he's on all the right thing, doing all the right things on the right page. It's just 10x 10x everything you're doing. Like, that's what you don't understand is like, you may have one spot. I have 10. And like I strike out. If I only had one spot, I would probably strike out a lot. Like I'm just 10xing everything.

Yep.

I like, I hate to be the. Like it's simple and obvious, but it is that simple and obvious. Yeah. I love the saying. Like, oh, shoot, I lost it. It's like, it's simple. What is it? Simple, damn it. Simple but difficult. Or like easy. The concept being, gosh, I wish I was smart. Like some people, it's like the concept is like, it's very hard, but like it should. It's fairly simple. Like do this strategy, rinse and repeat, grind really hard, cover ground. And most guys aren't just aren't covered enough ground. Like, I mean they think they, they watch your guys YouTube video where like into elk every day and it's like, dude, even that was a grind and that was a limited entry. Like maybe you can share Share the story. I'd love to hear, like, you know, your version of that.

Oh, dude. I mean, it started in. Started in when Brian drew that tag, and then it started in June. We put cameras up everywhere, trying to figure it out, and then we had to pull them by July 31st. So, like, yeah, it was cool. And what's funny is we only saw, I think, two total bulls on the hoof that we actually had on camera. Because once you pull them July 31, you still got a whole month that, you know, those bulls are still growing and they're moving a little bit. You don't have any intel on them.

Yeah.

And so, like I said, we thought we had these money spots, and then we got in there, and we never. Like I said, we only saw two bulls on the hoof that we had on camera, but we had a lot of intel. Like, we knew where elk were. We had hiked around all over. We had scouted. And. And I would say this to add before I kind of dive into that is no matter what, when I'm in an area. And I started this in, like, 2014. So from 2014 until now, my phone is completely full of every hunt I've been on, every state. Like, not as much. In places that I go back, I still write down stuff, but every new area I go to, a new state I go to. I will write down every day as much as I can. The wind changed in the morning at 9:30, started blowing uphill. It was doing this in the afternoon. It was doing this with cloud cover. This is where the elk were at. This is the feed. They're hitting all the benches. Like, I will write down all that information. So I have all that from 2014 on every hunt that I've done. And you should just sign that.

Just.

Yeah, it's just a log, dude. It's a log. Like, because even though I may be in a different area, it can be very similar. And, like, I can go back and be like, oh, this was kind of a similar area. What were they doing in this area? What was the wind doing in this area?

I really wish I would have done that over all the years. Like, I. I have some of that, like, in my notes app. But, like, gosh, if I could have.

That for 20 years, man, it. Dude, it is. It has been incredible. Like I said, I can go. Maybe I haven't hunted this spot for five or seven years, and I'm. I'm back. And it's like, oh, I have all these notes from that last hunt that I was Here.

That's so smart.

I can see exactly what was going on, what the elk were doing kind of when the rut started. And I do it for mule deer. I do it for every animal for the most part that I'm hunting. And even in the middle of the day, it's from in an area that I'm pretty unfamiliar with. Like, it's really slow. Guys are like, I gotta take a nap, dude. I'm exploring. I am cruising around, like, and I'm being stealthy while doing it and paying attention to the wind and. And kind of keeping my eyes up. But I'm looking for in the timber. I'm looking for where there's a wallow. There might be a spring in the timber in a really dry unit that I can't. There's no water around, but there's elk here. There's got to be water somewhere. And I find this tiny little seep inside the timber marked it. Okay, cool. I got water right there. Like, they don't have to go five miles down the canyon to get water. They can get it right here. And so when you're exploring and learning the area, like, I'm always taking something from that area at all times, just learning new stuff. But back to Brian's hunt, we did a ton of scouting. Dude, we did so much e scouting in areas. And then we reached out to people that we knew as well that you know, trying to get as much intel as we could. Because one, it's a limited entry hunt. Like, a lot of guys aren't ever going to draw that tag again, right. And so, so they give us a little intel. We got some of that. We got some good spots. We did find almost all the spots that we did hunt or spots that we found on our own. And then we got into some spots that people had given us, like, not locations. But hey, around this area, you know, we've had good luck or whatever, and it was different. I was felt like I was cheating when I was calling in that area. Like, I felt like I could call in any bull I wanted to. They just don't get called to that much. They don't see a lot of pressure. You know, they get a few tags a year and it's a huge unit. And yeah, it's just different.

And what's the timing? Like, because, like, I. I do. I interested in those units and I talk a lot about, like, going to premium units in Utah for getting at bats.

Right.

I think it's one of the best at bats, and I've never Been there. So it's total armchair quarterbacking. But I do think, you know, I'd love to hear you talk about like that season's totally different because it's early. Early, right.

And totally different. Yeah.

I'd be curious like what, what you saw for rut activity throughout the year.

I would say there's in a 30 day period and during that season I would say there's three to four seasons within that one 30 day range of. Because it's like you've got the first five or seven days of that hunt where those bulls are still very patternable. They're just starting because it opens mid August usually. And so they're very patternable. They're getting ready to rub their velvet, but they haven't yet. And so like you can kind of, like I said, you can pattern them and then there's a period of time where they rub their velvet and it's like they just disappear. They go in a hole and you. It's like who knows where they are. And it's thick. It's thick country. So then they disappear for those could be four days, could be seven days. And we ran into that like we hunted almost. We basically hunted like 28 days of that season there pretty much out of the 30 day season. And we took like two days off total of coming home. And so you have that pre velvet or in the velvet then you have when they rub. And then you would have. Where they start here, they're coming back out, they're starting to look for cows and stuff like that. They're traveling, the rut's kind of kicking off. And then I would say that that would include kind of the ruts season of it. And then it's. I feel like it's short there because there's so many bulls to cow ratio that I feel like the rut is pretty short. And then the last part of it is like, it's almost like the rut didn't die off, but they're not cruising and they're not fighting and they're not screaming as much like. And I think every year is a little different. It could go on further and you could really hit the rut at the very end of that season. But I feel like we didn't hit that. We had a really good rut about the three week mark. And then the last few days were okay.

Like what was the season dates in total?

Because doesn't it.

Did that tag start the 15th?

It was like it was like August 17th or something like that. And then it Went to through like September 17th. And now I think some of that is more of kind of a pre rut. I do think that there, there would be a heavy rut like after 7, September 17, after that archery season closed. I can't speak to that because I haven't hunted it during that time. But what I experienced was like we had a really heavy rut. Bulls were screaming. Like, even on the film you saw Brian's bull fighting and stuff. But I also felt like it was kind of dying off. Like it got quite a bit slower those last few days right before he did kill his bull, where a few days before, five, six days before, like we felt like the rut was on. I mean, I was calling in bulls, Bulls were screaming, they were fighting each other, they were chasing cows all day long. Like I said, it was a really short window. So I would say there's about four seasons in that hunt during that 30 day period.

That's crazy.

But I ideally do think like the best time to kill a giant in a tag like that is the first five days of the season.

I think you just had to be. It's just different tactics at every stage. Different dude. Every week has to be a different tactic. I mean, you guys saw like if you had that, I mean, like a lot of variables, right? But like if you had just patterned that first bowl opening day, like, you know he's doing the same thing every day. Like you shoot him like a deer, like tree saddle.

Yeah. And the weirdest thing, like we set up some stands and stuff. But the weirdest thing like that I have not really experienced much in other areas is where we were at when it was quiet, when there was no wind, it was dead silent, dude. Like, I've never been in a place, it was almost eerie. I've never been in a place it was so quiet. When there wasn't any wind, there wasn't any like birds chirping and stuff. It was just, dude, you could, you could not move a muscle. Like you would lift your finger and it was like I just made the biggest, loudest noise in the world. You know, it was crazy. And so like we spent a day, like a day and a half actually. Like during the midday when the bulls were all bedded, we spent a full like day and a half, like actually clearing this trail, like scraping it out, moving leaves and stuff. And then we had our stockisons on and the day after that we slipped right in and. And we, we were like 10 minutes too early. This bull had been in the meadow and we Caught him in there from afar a couple times and stuff. And we had him the first night I showed up. We had him in the meadow that night, but it got a little dark on us. And he was at like 100 yards, 110 yards, something like that. And so we backed out. And then we caught him a couple more times. We never could get a shot. And that one day, like I said, we were about 10 minutes too early. And we snuck in there, I mean, ninja silent. And we popped up over the rise to look in the meadow, and that sucker was bedded, like, less than 10 yards from us. And him and Brian locked eyes. And there was this. It was the weirdest thing. There was a freaking dough. Every day, like, we'd get close and I don't. Dude, she had, like x ray vision. Because we could be sitting in the shadows waiting for the bull to come in the meadow. And all of a sudden, that dough at like 40 yards, nobody'd move. We'd been sitting there forever, and she'd been feeding and she just, like, looks around all of a sudden she would, like, lock onto us, don't know how, and she'd walk right to us every time, and she'd blow. And then she'd take off. And of course, nothing else is coming in the meadow after she just made all that ruckus. Yeah, but same thing, dude. That bull, when we walked in there, we snuck in, like, ninja style. We just popped over the rise, and all we did is pop our heads over. Like, Brian popped his head over to look in the meadow. And that bull we named Hook was right there, like, less than 10 yards. And the doe was like 10 yards from him, laying right there. Jumped up. All hell broke loose. And then we never saw that bull again, you know? And then we were kind of like, well, we got to give up on this spot. Because it was at that point where he. They were just rubbing their velvet. They were starting to look for cows. And we just bumped him out of that area. Like, we. I mean, his eyes were this big when he saw us, you know, popped up. And so we knew that was over. And we kind of gave up on that spot and moved to a new spot after that.

But, dude, that early season stuff always seems. I've done this for years. Always seems like it's like a go to or, you know, sure thing. It's a sure thing. I just gotta do that. And, like. Never works for me, dude.

Yeah. And I've never been. That's the first time I've been really fortunate or that I've had the opportunity to like, really hunt elk early now. I do think because they are so patternable, like, we, we made some mistakes, you know, just because we didn't have that much experience with it, we should have killed a couple of those bulls really early on. But it, like I said, we just didn't have as much experience with the early season bulls like that. And we made some dumb mistakes, like, you know, pattern them and not, not like knowing exactly where their exit routes were or whatever. And we just, yeah, we made some dumb mistakes and then we kind of felt like we got into our forte like what we're normally used to, and then we were able to capitalize, you know, on a good bowl and yeah, one of those hunts like that, dude, it's incredible when you get to be able to hunt a limited entry hunt. It's just different seeing giant bulls, you know, and calling is different. And, you know, we didn't see anybody the whole hunt as far as where we were hunting. We never saw anybody.

So what's your take? I mean, you've haunted those premium units now. What's your take on doing. I wouldn't say that hunt, but a premium hunt. Here's my two cents. Do one of those premium hunts. Do a spike tag, but hunt it like you're hunting big bulls and just like get close to the herds and obviously that first week when they're like, not together, that's kind of, that's not applicable because spikes aren't with them. But like, learn to hunt the herds of elk and you'll find a spike's just gonna naturally by accident. And I think it's a good idea. Bats, you're someone who's actually been there. What's your, what's your take on that for like getting at best.

Yeah, I 100 agree with that. Like, I, I, I look at things a little differently sometimes. Like, I, I know a lot of guys are like. And I see this with some guys. I'm gonna use the analogy with Kuzdeer because you, you can get a ton of stocks on Kuzdeer, like in Arizona or something like that. And the reason I say that is I am not always about the at bats because I like, yes. But that in my head is telling me like, oh, I'm gonna fail 30 times before I get that one opportunity. I want to freaking capitalize on the first opportunity if I can. And so, you know, years ago, and I think I may have told you guys, when I first time I hunted with Ryan and Brian and those guys, we we were in Arizona and we did rock, paper, scissors to see who was, who was gonna get the stock. Well, the day before, his. His buddy Anthony got the stock and blew it up pretty quick. And then that next day, I did it and Brian kind of laughed and they're like, why are you laughing? He goes, because Brad will be gone all day. They're like, on a stock. And sure enough, dude, they dropped me off like right at 9am I took a drink of water, ate a, like a granola bar, and I went after these deer and I went maybe 600 yards the whole day, if that. But it took me like eight and a half hours, almost nine hours to kill a buck. And I killed it. Like, I. But so I'm. I'm a little different. I'm. I want to be. And even if I don't get that animal killed, I want to be able to back out. Like, I like being a ninja. I like being really quiet. And so in that premium unit, you can get away with a lot more. But I do think to your point, because most guys aren't crazy ninjas, like, they're not able to stalk like that. Yeah. So I think you have to get the at bats. And in a premium unit like that, yes. The spikes are not going to be with them by themselves. They're going to be with the herd. So when you can continually capitalize and follow the herd, understand the herd, know what they're doing, then you're going to get the opportunity and you're going to also get a bunch of intel on what the elk are doing, the big bulls are doing in that area for hopefully the time you do draw that limited entry.

35 years. When you draw that.

35 years exactly. But you'll have all that intel. Like, you'll know where the elk hang out. You'll know. So I, yes, the at bats. Like that is the perfect opportunity to, to really learn a lot more about the elk. Um, so I think, I think it's.

Just like being in proximity too. Like, you learn so much by just like being around elk. And I struggle, you know, I was super fortunate the places I grew up hunting, not Roosevelt's, but after I started hunting the east side of Oregon, like I was in a unit that was just really good. Like I was calling in multiple bulls a day. And so it's like I. And I would be there 30 days. So I'm calling in sometimes five or six bulls a day for 30 days. Like, it's an insane amount of at bats. And I look at, you know, Say I was starting today and I lived in Colorado, or the only tag I could get was Colorado or maybe some crappy Idaho tag. And like, dude, you're gonna see two elk a year and like, like, I mean, they're gonna like within a hundred yards what we call red zone, like, of elk twice. Like, you're just not learning very quickly. And so I would rather see, like, if I was going to create the best elk hunter in the world, I'm like, go to the place where you're going to, like, just have encounters. I don't care if you can't shoot a six point because, like, you're going to spend five years hunting crappy tags.

And, like, not going to learn anything. I 100% agree with that.

And I love your, I love your point though, about like, don't, don't throw away at bats because I do. Like, when it comes to stocking, always take the hard route, always do the hard thing. Like two decisions in your mind, do the harder one. Like, it always works out, like, no shortcuts. And I, I have caught myself on that trying to take shortcuts, falling back. It's like, dude, that, you know, always think, you know, 600 yards, whether it takes nine hours or whatever. Like, that is 100% true. So it's not just swing frivolous, frivolously at, you know, every pitch. But it's like, man, you gotta, like, get the most out of each at bat. But at the same time, like, put yourself in a position. Even if you can only shoot spikes, you're gonna be a far better l cutter in the long run by shooting spikes for three years than you are like, absolutely going somewhere where you can.

Well, and there's multiple aspects of that because one, you're getting the experience behind the bow actually drawn on an animal shooting an animal, whether it's a spike or a six point, like, the bow performs the same and you gotta aim at the same, you know. And yes, your nerves hit differently. And some guys, no matter what the animal is in front of them, they lose it. And so I think you're getting experience there. You're getting experience of the terrain, you're getting experience of what the animals do. And that's again, that's why I started creating those logs of every place I'm at hunting. What a daily log. What's going on? I'll time stamp it, whatever. And I'll lay there at night and just kind of think about the day. Like, rewind and be like, okay, what happened this day? You know, what was the wind doing? Just all the stuff. Because man, like the knowledge that you can gain on every hunt. And we're fortunate. Like I, I spent 111 days in the field last year, you know, 134 the year before. So it's like I got to basically experience 10 years of hunting to, to what most guys experience in one year. You know, if you take it, you take a 10 day hunt, the guy gets one 10 day hunt a year. It's like I just spent 100 and some days. Yeah, I learned so much more about my backpacking skills, everything, you know, and that's why we feel so comfortable in the backcountry because you do it so much. But when you can take those, those experiences and you can, you can note them down, man, your learning curve gets shortened so much when you do draw that premium tag, you know, because you already have all the, all the kinks worked out. You know where the elk are, you know where the bulls are hanging out. And so yeah, I, if you can, if you are in a state like take Utah where you're not going to get that premium tag maybe once every 20 years, it's like, yeah, go hunt the spikes in the area that you want to draw because depending as much time out there, because like I said, you're going to get the experience, you're going to get all the knowledge. And when you do draw that tag, it's all cut in half and you're prepared, you're ready to, to go find that big bowl, you know, and it's.

Really tough these days because like honestly just getting a, a good tag anymore is way difficult. Right. And so like you, you kind of have to take advantage where you can. Yeah, I'm a huge believer. Like, honestly, I was going back and like say Brad drew a great tag or I could go hunt my general season tag. I might just go hunt Brad Sag, you know, like, like, I mean like classic example. Like, you know, you were on Brian's hunt last year in a crazy area. How many at bats did you get? Like a pile?

Yeah. You know, and you got, I got to learn a lot more about elk in an area like that. You know, I, I got to use that, that calling tool in my toolkit a lot in that area that I don't really pull out that much in other seasons. And so it was fun. Man, that was one of the funnest hunts. Like I was so jacked when Brian killed that bull do. We spent so many days and, and it's all a Lot of it was self inflicted struggle. You know, we're very, we could have shot many nice 6 point bulls, 320 bulls, 330 bulls. But it was like, no, we're in a premium unit. You know, we got the days like, let's find this a stud. And we, we had some incredible bulls that we had opportunities at. We didn't capitalize on all of them, you know, but we, we made it work and it was cool. It was, man, it was a fun hunt. That's probably one of the funnest hunts I've ever been on. Like being able to call elk like that, you know?

Yeah, yeah. No better than Yellowstone.

Yeah, right. Yeah. Right now it is for sure. Gosh, dude, all the freaking elk are dead in Yellowstone now. Yeah.

People say I said someone comment on a video and they're like, that's a Yellowstone ball. It's like bulls like this don't exist.

In Yellowstone, I'll tell you that right now. Not anymore. Not anymore. 20 years ago.

What's, you know, maybe not on that hunt, but like what in general, in life do you have that one bowl that got away?

Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. That's so like I've got three years of history and it was actually the bull I missed last year. So a few years ago my brother had an opportunity. He's a, he's a stud bull. And my brother had an opportunity at him a few years ago. Ended up like 37 yards. He shot and he hit a tree and the bull got away. And then I saw him one day, the season before, one time. And I've never seen this bull with cows like as far as a herd of cows. He's an old bull, he's a dinosaur. And he may not be the biggest bull in the mountain, but he's one of the oldest bulls on the mountain. And he, I've only seen him grab like a cow or two and he'll do his thing at night or whatever and then by morning he's by himself somewhere. He's, he's hard to find.

Yeah.

And last year was the first year he had cows with him. And I was, I only had three days to hunt total because I. Two and a half days because I spent so much time on Brian's hunt. And so I had the last two and a half days of the season and I went into this spot hoping to find him or another bull, good bull. And, and as I was working my way up to the top, he come over that morning into the same canyon I was in. I was like got him. Here he is.

So I just gotta feel good like first day. And yeah, the bull I've been looking for for years, like, yeah.

So I work my way around, I come up, I take the long way I could make sure my wind, because the wind was blowing hard uphill and like I was down below. But luckily they were far, far enough away that I was able to drop all the way back, hit the next canyon and come all the way around, come up on the top, trying to locate him. There was any spot that's pretty timbery, I'm trying to locate him and I heard him bugle once and so then I worked around and I got probably within 200 yards of them, but I couldn't tell exactly on the mountain where they were. And I heard some cows chirping and I'm like, it's got to be them. Like again, it's the first year I've seen him with a herd of cows. And so I slipped down in what I thought was close and I looked on the map and there's like this little, little probably 40 by 50 yard meadow or open spot in the, in the timber that was on the hillside. And so I'm like, well that's my only opportunity really to like see if I can get him around that area. Because it's a bunch of like jack pines, really thick and stuff. So like shooting lanes are non existent. And so I got to the edge of that and when I got to the edge of it, I just started calf calling, make some really light calf sounds. And I had the, like the cow started working out into the open and I had this cow, she walked right up behind me, probably like 5ish yards. She walks right up and she smells me. And I'm sitting there frozen and she smells me. She whirls around and I start calf calling again. And she's like she was confused as hell. Like, what, what? Like I smelled the human, but he's called. But she must have lost the calf because then she came back and then she ended up feeding like 8 yards in front of me below the log that I was kind of sitting behind. She fed around. All the elk are kind of feeding around. And then that bowl. About 10 minutes, 15 minutes later he bugled. And like I said, all the cows and some rag horns and stuff were feeding. And that bull, I can see him walking through the trees barely. So I'm ranging trees and he comes out and I, when I drew, I had this cow, like I couldn't range him. Like resi came out I range right by him because I had this cow, she was like six yards from me. I couldn't really get away with a lot of movement. And so I had ranged the tree before, and I was like, okay, he's like around 40 yards. Well, it's hard to tell, like, exactly downhill. There's a. There's a tree here and there's a tree here. And he came between him. So he was probably like 35 ish, 33. And he come walking out, and I drew my bow sideways behind the log because all the cows were really close. And I just rotated my bow up, kind of sat up over the log, put the pin right on him, let him stop. He stopped perfect. Kind of just broadside quartered away. I let it go and I shot right over top of his back. I just missed judge yardage. And so he. He took off. He bugled or he didn't really do anything. He moved about 100 yards and he bugled again. And I knew I didn't hit him. And so I just sat there and I kind of kept calf calling and stuff. And all these cows and other raghorns came out working in front of me. I let them all go past me probably like 45 minutes to an hour later. And then I backed all the way out. Didn't want to blow anything up. I backed all the way out, and I got on the next hillside where I could see into that timber a little bit, and they were 100, 150 yards from where I shot at him. So I was like, well, tomorrow morning I should be here. I'm gonna get on them. And that a storm was kind of coming in. So the wind was starting to be a little squirrely. It wasn't blowing up and down like normal. And so I waited till about 11 o' clock that next day, where I was like, okay, I think I've got a fairly consistent wind on what it's doing. And it was. Instead of blowing straight uphill, it was blowing across ways. And so I came in about the same elevation as them, and I watched them feed in the edge of that timber. They hadn't moved very far, and I slipped in, same thing, got in the timber there, had some shooting lanes, and I started calf calling about five minutes after calf calling, here come all the elk. Cows are walking out, and this bull's following the cow. The cow walks past me. She's like, 8 yards. And I'm waiting, waiting, and I. I draw because I can see the bulls coming. He's less than 20 yards at this point. See him walking, and I have elk kind of surrounding me. And this calf comes walking up right behind me. And the bull pops out, but all I can see is like his nose and the front of his tines and like the side of his eyeball. He has no idea I'm there. He needs to take two steps. And I'm drawing it like 12 yards. And I'm waiting and waiting as that calf comes right behind me. It literally comes up behind my ear and like basically touches my ear and sniffs right in my ear and blows, you know, and turns and runs. And that bull turned and ran. And he. He's like 65 yards, but he was walking. And I had a bunch of trees kind of in the way, so I never even shot him. And then I backed out. That was the second to the last day. So I got the half day hunting that second last day. I backed out trying to figure out where the hell they went, you know? And the very last day of the season, I camp on top and I'm like, I got to drop the teepee before the sun comes up because I'm sitting in the wide open top of the saddle. Like, I gotta drop it in case there's elk around or whatever. And at this point, I'm like, I'm just gonna try and shoot a nice six point or whatever I can find. Well, I dropped the teepee. The sun's just coming up where I can barely glass. And there's like an old elk Trail probably 150 yards above me through this other saddle. And sure enough, dude, that bull is walking with three cows and a calf. Same bull. And he's walking across. And I'm like, dude, I gotta get to that saddle right there. Like, he's gonna come through. The trail's right there. They're on it. He's gonna come right through it. So I get it set up like 40 yards from that saddle. About 20 minutes later, I see two of the cows heads walking. And I'm like, perfect, dude. The wind is. It's cold. The wind is blowing in my face hard. I've got good cover right here. It's shadowed. And as they come around, the two cows pop out. And I'm waiting and waiting and waiting. I'm like, what the heck? Where's this bull at? There should be another cow and a calf and the bull. Well, then I look up about probably five minutes later, and he had crossed and went to the next saddle.

And dude.

And then they were like 100 and some yards away. And so I like, I ninja Snuck up there and I got about 75 yards from him, but he was always walking away from me. And I slipped around those cows, but I couldn't get a shot. So I let him go across the mountainside. I worked my way up through this big old rocks, like, boulder field. I get on top and I'm like, they're gonna go to that timber on the back side. I'm going to cut them off as they come around the trail right there. Well, that dirty sucker, dude, when he went around, he went just around the. The rock field and then he must have turned up the ridge and went up to like the very high timber point because I come through the rock field and I just poked over and I'd made a little noise walking through that rock field, you know, trying to be sneaky, but I made a little noise and I pop over and he is clear in the head of that. Basically like an avalanche shoot. He's in the head of it at like 50 yards, staring at me. Are you freaking kidding me, dude? And he dropped in the hell hole. And I never could turn him up. And that was the last day of the season. I did see. I did see him about seven or eight days later. My buddy had a buck tag in there and we did see him about seven days later. So he's. If you made it to the winter, he's still alive. And so, like, I want to go find that bull. This season history. He's got away from me and. And yeah, sucks, dude, because I had my opportunity and I blew it. I blew it hard.

Sucks so bad when you're like, I mean, Brad's an amazing shot and watch that guy take 140 yard, you know, shots on targets and like, trust. I'm like, 40 yards, man, a chip shot, dude.

I just like, I figured I'm like my bow shooting fast enough, I'll be fine. But he was, yeah, he probably was like 33 yards, 32 yards, something like that. And I shot for 40 and really steep downhill, you know, too, which doesn't help. And I sailed it. I selled it hard. Makes me sick, dude.

But I feel like even when you have a history, I mean, history is great, but you like, you miss a bull.

Gosh, you want that one. Doesn't matter. You miss it. You're like, dude, I want that one back. Yeah, dude.

I will hopefully get out from this year and get it done. But, dude, thanks for coming on. We'll put links in the show, notes to, you know, Brian's video and, you know, we'll Tag you in there as well. People follow along and hopefully kill that bullish here. Or you can't.

My goal. Yeah, hopefully he. I would love for my boy to draw a rifle tag in there and to kill that bull, dude. Like, oh, I'd be on cloud nine. I'm way cooler than if I kill it, that's for sure. Oh, he'd hold that over your head.

He'd be like, yeah, dad missed this bowl and then I shot him.

Yeah, but dude, I would not care if my son kills that bull. Like nothing else matters. I mean even if he draws a tag and I can't archer hunt, I don't care. Like that's, that's my priority now. He's, he's at the age of being able to hunt now. I'm not gonna fill any of my tags. A general tag. If he has a tag in his pocket. Like, yeah, I even over a stupid turkey. I, I've never shot a turkey and I don't care to. I've missed turkeys with the bow trying to shoot him in the head, you know. But when he killed that turkey last year, I was shaking like I couldn't even stand up out of the chair. I'm in a stupid blind. I couldn't even get up, I was shaking so bad. And then when he killed his antelope last year, 300 yard shot, smoked it in its bed. Like, dude. I mean I remember as a kid those are my most fun with my dad. And so yeah, I don't, I don't care to pull the trigger. If I have a tag and he has a tag, like he's priority.

Yeah, yeah.

Hopefully he draws it and we kill that bull.

That would be so cool. All right, buddy, well, thanks for coming on.

Thanks Cody.

Keep in touch, buddy.

You too.

Alrighty guys, thanks for tuning into the show. If you like this episode, do us a huge favor and share it with one of your hunting buddies. Also, if you want a free hunt planner, be sure to go check the link in the show notes. It's a hundred percent free. You can download our hunt planning tool, which is a great resource for kind of keeping track of all of your hunts, your hunt plans, your points, all those things. Pretty great resource. Go check it out links in the show notes or you can check our website, www.elkhunt201.com.

It.