Wyoming Bear Down & The Gear We Used with Jordan Budd

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To the Hunt west podcast, here's your host, Jaden Bales. What's up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hunt west podcast. Today I have on someone that I hope you already know already, but if you don't, this is my friend Jordan Bud. Jordan's on the other line. How are you this morning, man?

I am good. Just unwinding after our little escapade.

Dude, it was such a quick rip. It was so fun though. So great. Um, so just to set the scene for people who don't know who you are, what's the 30,000 foot view of, of who Jordan Bud is and what you, what you do.

Yeah. So born and raised in northwest Nebraska, like Sand Hills area and ended up moving, I moved to, to Idaho. So a lot of people like know me as being from Idaho it seems, but I'm back in, back in Nebraska now. So born and raised here. I have, I have an outfitting business here called Running Water Hunting and when I was in high school I started filming and just kind of, I don't know why I liked it, but just one of those things you gravitate towards. I snagged a camera and started filming some stuff and mainly just kind of my own hunts because that's just, I mean that's all I had. And then I got into, got into college and started filming some buddies and ended up getting a film job with a company out in Cody, Wyoming and did that for a few years, four years I think. And that was all like, like filming for television and editing for television. And then from there, when I left there, I started my own business which is Running Water Media and just basically like, you know, doing post production for people filming all that for different, different companies. And then I was also like part of the Rockslide crew over@rockslide.com doing like gear reviews and, and stuff like that. And then kind of as all that stuff started to progress, I had the company meat eater reach out to me and wanted to do content with them. And so I've done a few things with them, but as of right now I'm doing, I basically contract with them and to do some hunts with them. Like I film them all myself and then, and then they air them through their channels. So that's kind of. There's a lot of irons in the fire, but that's kind of what I can think of right now.

Dude, I feel like anybody who's like in the contract version of like working in the hunting industry is doing a lot of irons in the fire. That's like the only way to keep the, you know, keep the wheels on the bus turning.

Yeah, for sure.

So I just popped up your. Your YouTube channel and there's a. There's a turkey teaser from 11 years ago. It's got 256 views. Was that your first. Was that your first film project that you ever did or like, what was your very first one that you did?

First film project? That is a question that nobody's ever asked me before. And I'm not sure I've ever thought about that. I think probably my first one was like, like a highlight reel type thing just like around the ranch. Because I didn't know what I was doing that I would say my first, like hunting film that I can remember putting out is either. It is either that turkey teaser or I filmed my buddy Hun when we were in college.

Oh, gosh.

And I felt like that was the first time that I could be behind the camera kind of filming somebody else and setting up shots that I wanted to. Instead of like trying to, you know, set up a tripod and take my best, you know, guess on kind of what kind of shot I want. And. And then I got to. To edit that. That was probably. Those were some of my first ones. I'll have to dig back and see if I could find like literally the first one.

Oh, that'd be awesome, dude. Yeah, no, this is really cool. And I actually saw in here eight years ago, you posted a video. I haven't watched it yet. I should have watched this before. There's an Alberta, Canada black bear. Um, so, you know, we've talked about it a lot, but obviously you came out for a black bear hunt, but you were kind of talking like you really had only done a couple and Alberta was like the one that, that was successful. What, what was your kind of experience hunting bears before you got a hold of me?

Yeah, I basically it was all behind the camera, just like filming for that show. We filmed a few. Um, I went out and helped one of my friends shoot a bear. That was kind of a. It was somewhat of a quick deal too in Idaho. But everything, it wasn't really with me, you know, with the tag. For the most part, I was all behind the camera. But when we went to Alberta to film an episode, there was just. There were so many bears and it was like, you know, they were all off the oil roads, so they'll like do clear cuts and then they'll do like, I would almost say clear cut strips that just have an, you know, like an oil Line running through it and that like open ups, that opens up that canopy. And from what I understand, like, that's where the best, greenest grass is growing. And so that's where the bears like to be. And literally up there, like, you're just driving around. And so the people with tags, like, got all they got. Well, they were supposed to be in front of the camera. Got done early. We had a little bit of time left before we had to leave. And they were like, jordan, you want to go get a tag? And so I did and was able to shoot a bear. And then from then on, I hadn't. I didn't really go on any more bear hunts. Like last year we, we bombed out to Wyoming kind of trying to find one, but, you know, somewhat probably not taking it as seriously as we need to. And more so for me, not being very confident in where I was looking. If you're not confident, it's pretty easy to just kind of bounce around and you end up like kind of half assing it because you don't, you know, you're not confident in the habitat you're looking at.

Yeah, no, that's a huge piece of it. It's like you got to know in some, you know, deep down, like, you're like, yeah, this is, we're doing the right thing. You know, it can be so dang boring. Yeah. Okay, well, that's sweet. I didn't realize you'd been out last year too. Like, so basically this is bear hunting in general, would you say? It's been like kind of on the back burner, like something you wanted to do more of, but like, just wasn't a big priority yet?

Yeah, and some of it, you know, springtime in the mountains, it starts getting nice and you start being like, gosh, I would like to go spend some time out there. And that's like kind of some of what it was is just, you know, something to do in the spring to get up in the mountains. And that was always kind of an excuse is like, well, you know, we'll buy a bear tag and we'll somewhat try to find one, but I don't think we. I don't think we saw one.

Yeah, it's one of those things. I mean, even when I was a kid, the first time I went out with my dad, it was like very much, you know, that where we were just hanging out in the mountains and trying to go. Go mess around basically. But I'm now realizing like, dude, it takes, you know, especially after I've gotten really into it, it takes like actual effort to get a bear, especially if you are. Well, in any case, but especially if you're in these places where there's, there's fewer of them, you know, like this, Wyoming, Montana, in some places, you know, probably Utah. I haven't, I actually don't know very much about Utah black bear hunting. But yeah, it just takes, it takes some like, effort. And I know that it maybe didn't feel that way with you this year, but it's one of those things, man, that just when lightning strikes, it's like bear hunting can go from the most boring to the most exciting thing, like right now, you know?

Oh, man. Yeah. And really, like, I don't know anything's like that too. I always tell people, like, especially like clients when they come to Nebraska, like, it's a real cushy hunt, right. Like we have, we have a house to come back to. It's not that physically demanding, but mentally it just, it can destroy people just because if they haven't gotten anything yet, you know, And I always tell them like, your last day is somebody else's first day, so you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to hunt like it. And you know, like, we discussed moving our trip up and that day when we found that bear could have easily been our last, our fifth day, you know.

Yeah, no, that's a great point. That's something. I, I don't think I even put that into perspective. But you know, it's one of those things where if, if we would have bumped it up that week that we, that you, that that ended right when you got there, it would have been a really good week for bear hunting because conditions, like, matter so dang much. But like you said, like, you just gotta take what the schedule gives you. You can't. You, you know, especially when you're traveling to hunt, it's not like you can just watch the forecast and be like, oh, it's going now, I'm gonna make a 10 hour drive or whatever the case is, you know, like, you just kind of have to take what it gives you.

Yep, for sure.

I would imagine that's probably the same when people are coming out to hunt whitetails too. Right. I mean, it's just every type of western hunting, you just kind of go with the flow. You can't. Yeah. Especially when you're dealing with vacation and, and I know I talked to a lot of people about this who saw that you got a bear and they were like, man, like, that was fast. And I was like, well, it was the perfect day, you know, like, it.

Was a perfect day.

It was some of the day.

Yeah.

I think it's gotta be a lot of it, honestly. I mean, obviously you gotta be in the right place at the right time. But. Okay, before we, before we dive into all this, like, set things up, like, what was our, what was our game plan here for the, for the week?

Yeah, so I mean, I would say our game plan, like when I rolled into town, we had planned, I mean, we went and raided Safeway. We were planning on, I mean, going in and like camping and even backpacking if we needed to. Right? Is that what you mean?

Yo. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I did this whole, I thought about this after the fact. I did this whole, like, I'm burning in my Argali stove because we're probably going to use it and it's going to be rainy, you know, Like, I did this whole video thing and the moral of the story, we didn't ever get to it, but yeah, we were, we were planning for a, for a real rip, so. But I will say one of the things that made this hunt like really unique compared to how I normally hunt bears was. You had that can am. Yeah, that thing was gangster. What's the, what's the setup on that?

Yep, it's a, it's a Can AM defender. And I use that thing, I mean, as it sits now, I've, I have. I mean there's probably 9,000 miles on it, like literally. And I use it for everything. Like I take it on most hunting stuff. I mean, not all of our hunting, you can use them, but anything that I can even remotely have. Some roads that might be like really rough to get down in a vehicle or something. Like, I take that because it just makes it so much faster. And then some places, you know, where it is width restricted so you can't even take a pick up on it or some stuff that's just like, you know, it's literally so rough like you wouldn't want to go down it in your vehicle. You can take that thing and it's just like it makes traveling around so much quicker. And then on those places where it's width restricted, like, you know, you, you do get rid of some people when you can take a side by side in five miles and then start hunting from there versus, you know, having to like walk that road for five miles and then start hunting. Like, it's just a big difference. Like we don't, you know, we didn't have to backpack into that place because we had that canyon.

And normally, like, every time I've looked at it prior, I was like, God, that's a long backpack, you know. But luckily didn't have to. I'm looking at it and I think, yeah, it was like five and a half, six miles to where you park the can we. We parked the can am.

We did that 30 minutes.

Oh, yeah. 20 on the way down or something like that. Yeah, dude, that was my. That was one of my favorite parts about all this too. Was like, basically because you had that can am, like, we were able to unlock some zones that I've never been to before. And that I think also was a big piece of. This is like, it was. It was like, let's go into this zone that I'm not. I don't know of anybody who goes back here, and it's myself included. And I usually don't mind a. A pretty stiff hike, you know. Cause as we were talking about, like, I do in. In this part of Wyoming, like, there's just not a lot of spot and stock people. And if they are a spot and stock hunter, there's a good chance they're. They're my buddy. So it doesn't mean there's none. It's like, I know I had dozen of them or whatever who are out doing it, but still it was like, okay, well, this is where the spot and stock pressure for me and my friends has been. Let's go to someplace they haven't been, you know?

Yeah.

That was kind of the thought process, at least when I. When I was looking at that place on the map. But so what is. What was our. What was our game plan? You did a good job, by the way of, like, you were asking the game plan and like, we were talking through stuff, but it didn't feel like it was this, like, big scripted film. It was like, hey, like, what are we doing now? And then we just kind of like. I would. It's the same stuff I would do if I was, like, describing it to my buddy as we're headed out, you know.

Yeah. As far as just kind of being loose on the plans, sort of.

Yeah.

I feel like you just gotta. I. I think that you just gotta. You have to go in with that mindset sometimes, like, you know, kind of have some plans like, you know, A through, you know, D or E or whatever, but somewhat be kind of loose on those because, I mean, even. We didn't even go back to where you wanted to go because we hit snow.

Yep.

So I feel like if you get too locked in on one plan. And when you hit snow instead of, you know, kind of diverting like we did, you might be just turning around and going back and going to a different area because you can't make it into that one drainage. You know, I think people get like too locked into their plans. So I like to be real fluid. And you do too. And I think that that's just from probably experience. Right?

Like, yeah, that's great.

Time in the field and, and having stuff not go right. And then just kind of having to, to shift and make the best of it.

Dude, I. Yeah, it's funny because I, I even was already just like, yeah, we planned to go in there, but you're right, we didn't plan to go in that specific spot. We were trying. We're trying to get another, oh, two miles down the road and then go hike from there down into this other canyon that was another mile and a half. And we just like, like you said, we hit snow. It's one of my favorite parts about building plans with people is like, is like the number one rule about building a plan is that the plan's not gonna go up to plan, you know, like. But that's why you have all these contingencies and know what you're looking for. So you can like pivot.

Yeah. And it just seems to happen so much. But then even like we had discussed going through the canyon that we ended up finding the bear in to get to the canyon we were going to.

Yeah.

And then. Yeah.

You were really good about being like, well, I, I said like, well, maybe we should go over there. Then we'll see if there's any bear sign on that as we get to the canyon I want to go to. And then I like sat with it for a second. I was like, wait, that sounds dumb. You're like, yeah, don't do that.

I was like, okay, yeah, like, right. Like, you know, burning through, you know, bear country to get to bear country. Especially if it pretty much looks the same or if it looks good and we're just gonna get over there and sit anyway. Like we can do that tomorrow if this doesn't pan out.

Yeah, I think that's a good lesson just for any hunt. Right.

I mean, a hundred percent.

Especially when you're. It's your first time into a place. Like I was like, I said this is my first time back into these drainages cuz it's so far. But I didn't realize how perfect looking the habitat was gonna be. Like in the drainage that we ended up Spending the day in. But because I was like, oh, this other one. And it just looks perfect on Onx. You know, we gotta get there. But then we're like in route. I was like, wait a minute. Like this is. This looks money. Um, so, yeah, describe, like describe what we were looking at.

Yeah. So big deep canyon, I would say. Let's see, what direction would that be? Kind of an. Kind of a north. Like a really thick north slope. And we actually saw a lot of signs in that. In. On that real thick side, more so coming out. But yeah, in that thick side there was. There was a lot of sign, but it was just kind of like big canyon, like steep cliff walls. I don't know, 2/3 of the way up it and like big bouldery rocks but still a lot of grass and some like sagebrush type type country like that kind of bled into some aspens. And you know, one of those canyons gets like real tight and then kind of real tight in the middle. And then as you went further, like downstream, it would open up. And then you go further upstream, you know, it opened up too. But he was in the. He was in the tightest place, which is about. I mean, it's basically what you told me. You're like these, these tight canyons, like in the bottom is where they like it.

Yeah, it's. So I just ran the onx on it and like it's from cliff to cliff in that spot where you killed him. Well, I say cliff to cliff. It just like it's tight and it's about 250, 300 yards the north slope. Like, and this is kind of goes to setting up the shot, but north slope is really timbered and like it was hard to get a shot unless you're on a cliff. Whereas, like up at the head of the drainage, dude, like from that same feature. The same feature is like basically a mile. Yeah, I think that, that, you know, I was, I was commenting on your post. Someone asked you like about spot and stock bear hunting. And I was like, yeah, find food, food, water, shelter. And I was like, I think that that feature where it's really tight and cliffy, that's probably got to be like relative to the shelter piece, you know, like, because they're not going to get screwed with whether it's other bears or hunters. Like, if it's this tight, really steep, gnarly country, like, people just tend to not want to be in there, you know. And I swear, man, I was just thinking about it the other day. I was like, every bear has Been in something similar to that. So that was really. That was cool. Like when you. And I guess this is part of, this is part of like the learning curve that you can't necessarily teach is like when you'd see it with your eyes and you didn't necessarily see it on the map. Like you have to recognize like, oh, I need to slam on the brakes and just sit, you know?

Yeah, I was even. So we've. We filmed this. It will be one of my. It'll be one of my meteor films. But I was like going through all the footage and I was looking at some stuff that I filmed last year too, and I was like, as soon as I saw it again on the video, I was like, we were so in the right spot. I just didn't sit long enough. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. You didn't like just. Just burn out your eyes on one spot waiting for him to show, right?

Yeah, yeah. We just kind of bounced around too much, I guess. Assuming that, you know, there's just gonna be a big black bear walking across somewhere, easy to see and easy to get to. And that's. I mean, that's not the way it is with anything, is it?

No, no, that's. And that's one of the things I always remember. Black bears are kind of interesting in that they move. They'll move that mid afternoon and, and mid to late afternoon, and then they'll move right again right before dark. But it's just like deer and elk, like, they're not up on their feet all day. And I think that people just want them to be out, you know, because it's spring. And I think maybe places with some higher bear densities, that can happen. But when you're dealing with like moderate to low bear densities, it's like, dude, you. You're in the spot. You just got to wait for them to move because otherwise you're just not seeing them if they're bedded up under a tree or in the timber or aspens or whatever. Big difference there.

Yeah, for sure.

Okay, so let's get into the. The details of how the actual hunt went.

Yeah, I mean, I just followed you some of the time. I was like, he's got a good beat on where we're going. And then I was like self filming too. So I was trying to. I was kind of trying to focus on that side of it since you were like, you know, kind of leading charge. But yeah, we just, we worked around and once we decided that, hey, instead of walking through this, we should probably just sit down. You know, you just jumped on Onx and started looking at some places that would probably be a good vantage point that we'd be able to see, like, up and down the canyon, we'd be able to see the bottom. Just, like, a really good vantage point. And we just kind of started working our way over to those. I think we got to, like, a couple of them that were just kind of like, nah, we can kind of see, but I think that the next one down will be better. So we just bounced to the next one, and we finally got. We got to one that was just, like, money, you know?

Yeah.

Up and down.

Once we got to that. Yeah, that is. The big point is, like, you can see. We can see the whole canyon for, you know, at least 80% of it. You're maybe leaving 10% on either end of it that you can't see. But I remember when I said this to you, and I was like, I'm gonna remember that. I was like, yes, Jordan got a good glassy knob. I was like, glass and knobs are like, marriages don't settle.

That's right.

And I was like, glass of dobs are like, marriages don't settle. And I was like, I'm gonna freaking say that more often because I think that that, like, if you're off by one cliff, like, one cliff pocket or whatever, you just wouldn't. You wouldn't have seen them. You know, you got to see as much as possible and.

Yeah.

You know, especially when you have time in the day like that. Like, we had all day. It was, like, noon or something when we finally got to that knob. So we had all day to, like, find the right one and not settle. Obviously, this is where scouting or can. Knowing a place can help, right? Because.

Oh, yeah.

If you're trying to get to someplace at first light or lights running out on you, you know, that's a different story. But yeah, that glass and knob. I was so. I, like, that was a win in and of itself to find this per. Like, perfect outlook, you know?

Yeah. And then I know after we got to the bear, I remember we. I looked back and was like, we wouldn't have been able to see him from the one we were at before.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

It's completely blocked, so, yeah, it's a good move.

So then, I mean, basically, in case anyone doesn't know, um, bear hunting essentially just looks like sitting on your butt once you hike in. And, you know, I. We hiked in that glass and knob. I'm running it real quick. We. We parked the Can Am and then just like hiked up to this place. It was like a mile and a half from where the Can Am was. Um, so that. I mean, that's also another feature that I really like is like, we have the Can Am and both of us were like, yeah, but we're going to still hike in. And, you know, there's a lot of people who will just use this side by side, thinking that that gets them, quote unquote, away from people. And it just, like, it doesn't sell because everybody else has. You know, it's. If anyone's seen, especially on Memorial Day weekend or whatever, how many people have side by sides and four wheelers and all the stuff, you know, it's just like, they're a dime a dozen these days. You got to hike on it on top of doing that. So.

100. Yeah. Yep, 100%. So.

So basically we just sat there and at one point I was like, staring at the creek bottom and I think I told you this. I hope it's on film because it would have kind of been calling the shot, which I was really excited about. I was like, they're gonna be bedded in the thick. This thick stuff. And then they're gonna, like, come out and. And like, come out from the thick into the open and feed and on the grass and stuff. And gosh, like four hours into it. Yeah, I was like, just staring at the creek bottom and I was like, turn your. Like, I think I saw something. And then it disappeared. And then we were like, maybe not.

Yeah, I had been. I mean, after a while, I believed you because, I mean, what else is out there that's big and black? Really?

Yeah. And that's doing that exact thing.

Yeah, exactly. And then so we step. We just looked down there for a while and, like, never came out. But I mean, it was pretty. There's a lot of trees down there. I mean, it was pretty easy for him to be somewhere we couldn't see. I had seen some rock chucks running around, and I'm like, well, I mean, I'm sure he saw something. Worst case, it was just like a rock chuck that bounced through somewhere. But I was like, you know what you're looking at? Yeah, I mean, I trusted. I trusted what you saw.

Well, it was funny because I was like. It was so fast that I was like. And it's. This is probably the first time I've ever seen a bear like that where it was just like a flash. And I was like, I think I saw a bear. But I wasn't sure because I had just told you something to the effect of when you see him, you see him. You know, it's obvious.

Yeah, you did.

And so then I saw this part and I was like, that's not how bears work. Like, I was like, all the bears I've ever seen, it was just like, boom, obvious, you know?

Yeah.

So then I started second guessing myself, but I didn't really tell you that too bluntly because I was like, no, it's gotta. It had to have been something. And so I actually started looking up drainage and, like, looking at something else. And you just kept the Eye of Sauron just like, right on that spot. You, like, you trusted me on that one and I appreciated it.

Yeah, yeah. No, I. I definitely. I remember you were like, well, we still have to be able to see this other direction. And I mean, some of got cloudy and the wind was cranking and we were kind of exposed on this. This outcropping. And it was cold.

Yeah.

Sitting there for so long, kind of got chilly. So I was trying to move down behind a little. Behind a little rock and was also pointed that direction, which helped me.

Yeah. And then it was funny. It was like, right. As soon as the sun came out, dude, as soon as the sun came out and it started warming up, that bear just like, bump pops out. Oh, I know.

It was like clockwork. It was just what you said.

I was like. And I also said this later, but I was like, my bear mentor, Joe Condylas, he's. He runs American Bear foundation. And he once told me, he was like, if. If fat people are out on the streets, it's a good time to be bear hunting. And it went from freezing, windy, like just kind of blustery, to all of a sudden, like, perfect weather for walking out on the street and that bear pops out. And I was like, you. You were like, I got a bear. And I just. I don't. I don't know what was more exciting, because I think bears maybe as a category, they're not too hard to kill when you. Once you find them, but they're really hard to find, you know, so what that was like. As soon as you're like, I got him. I was. I was elated. I was over the moon excited. I was like, yes, we got a bear, man.

I feel like that's the way I get with like, even like mule deer and stuff. I mean, kind of anything, but especially mule deer. For some reason, I always feel like once we got him, like, I got it from Here it's just finding him that's typically, typically the worst part. But yeah, man, I, I glassed down there. I mean, you explained to me where you had seen the flash and I mean it was right there.

Yeah, he just pops out and like then you can see him. I mean we were, I was just running the Onx, like I think we were 800 yards or something from that glass and knob to where that bear was and you could see him just playing his day with your naked eye.

Oh, I know.

Yeah, there he is.

I know.

Yeah.

And I, when I first got him in, I remember saying like, oh, here we go. Or like, oh, I got him or something. And then I remember the color and I was like, oh, dude, that's like an awesome looking bear. And then he like turned his head and I saw his kind of small ears, you know, on the side of his head. And I'm like, I don't know that much about bears but I know that that's something that you look for.

Yeah.

And I remember just being like, this is too good to be true almost.

Yeah, well, and I, you know, and we're rolling with the camera at this point, so I'm kind of like talking through and I'm like, yeah, you know, we should definitely give ourselves 30 minutes. And I'm like getting my digiscoping out. I've got that like capture deal and I'm like getting my spot and scope on. I'm kind of like, I'm not rushing but I'm also just kind of like just getting everything put together right so I could take a better look at this thing. And I was like, yeah, you know, we'll give them 30, 45 minutes, make sure there's no cubs. And then like right about that time my, my magnets like clicked onto my phone, onto the spot and scope. And I was like, I don't, I didn't say this out loud but I was like, we do not have to wait that long. That's a good bear, you know.

Yeah. So we just did the basic, I mean I think shot him a range and yeah, he was in that seven hundreds. And I was like, yeah, can, you know, can we? Obvious. You know, obviously I was, wasn't going to try to take that, but you started doing just like bumping on Onx and like just doing, drawing some lines. And we were like, you're like, I think that next rock outcropping we can be in the low fives. And I was like, I'm confident with that. Especially like the wind was going down, and it was just like the stage was setting.

Yeah, it's one of those things, too, where, like. And I want to talk about your gear here towards the end, but you were like, okay, I know where I need to be. And, like, if people haven't gone and dialed in, like, exactly where they need to be, you know, like, it can be tough because then you're, like, setting up a stock, like, after you find it, when you've got questions, you're like, well, if I get to this, can I make the shot? Or, like, you know, whatever the case is. The cool thing about bears, you know, like I was saying, is, like, they don't. If you don't mess up your wind, if you don't blow your wind right at them, they're not terribly hard to get, like, in position to kill. They just don't have great eyesight, and they're hearing, like. I don't know if their hearing is that bad, but they definitely, like, are pretty. Not as sensitive as, like, a mule deer. So, yeah, yeah, we ran over to that cliff, and, dude, we were, like, looking at it, and it was kind of spicy getting out onto the cliff where you could see and shoot. And I remember I, like, set up. I'm. I'm, like, in a more safe spot getting set up. I'm looking over Jordan, and, like, half your body is, like, hanging off the damn cliff as you were, like, prone, like, getting ready to make a shot. And I was like, huh, this is. This is an abnormal shooting situation.

I was like, man, just got to do what you got to do. I remember looking at it, and I. I didn't pay. Like, when we got to the cliff, I could tell, like, by your body language that you saw him and he was still there. And I'm like, there's no reason for me to look at him in my binoculars. I'm just going to start getting my stuff together. I was like, I'm just going to start getting ready. Like, I know he's there. If he wasn't or is leaving or something, like, Jaden's going to tell me what's going on, and then I can look. So I just, like, literally looked at the rock and was like, oh, this might be hard because the rock's kind of sloping down. And I'm like, oh, I don't know if I'm gonna get my front end picked up enough. And then so I thought about. Remember that little. There was, like, that little shelf rock?

Yeah.

I thought about getting on that because, like, up on top of No, I would just, I would have just been like somewhat knee height.

Oh, gotcha, gotcha.

Kind of like almost like on a bench. That's what I thought of when I saw the rock. I was like, damn, that thing is like a bench. Because at first when I looked at the rock where I was going to lay prone, I was like, I think that I'm going to have a really hard time getting my position high enough. Well, turns out I laid down and opened my eyeballs to where the bear was and he's like down there. I mean it was almost, it was almost perfect. I just like underestimated how steep the shot was going to be at first. And yeah, it was no problem getting my front end picked up enough. But yeah, I just laid down and looked with my eyes and was like, oh geez, is that him right there? Because it's just like obvious with my eyes and pulled my rangefinder out and was like, yep, that's him. Ranged him. I think it was like line of sight was like 520. The cut was 500. And yeah, dialed up, I think I was at 10, 10.83 minutes I think is what my thing said. So I rounded up to 11 and just dialed it up. And then we just started like, you know, talking back and forth and yeah.

You kind of hit on this already. And it's one of the best things about being with like a good hunting partner is you don't have to say much in order to know what's going on. And I didn't realize it until you brought it up right then. But yeah, we were like a well oiled machine. And it's just like you and I do this all the time and we do it with other people, you know, like helping clients. Yeah, both of us guiding and stuff. It's like we know what we're supposed to do. And it wasn't like, do you want me to set up? Or like I was like, is he still there? You're like, you just trusted me. If I was, if anything went south, I was going to tell you. But otherwise just like do get into the, get into your, you know, shooting position and then like work through your, your, your ballistics and all the stuff. Because otherwise like your spotter, that's his job. Right. Like you're spotting for that other person.

Yeah.

And I think often like that spotter and this can be tough depending on whether or not it's a new hunter or it's someone who hasn't done it a lot. But like the spotter should just be Focused on spotting and, like, the hunter should just be focused on getting ready to shoot, you know, like, those are very clear responsibilities in this situation. And I think oftentimes the lines get blurred. The hunter will be like, do you see them? And, like, the Sparta is like, yeah, I got him. Or vice versa. The spotter is like, hey, do you need. Do you need to, you know, put this under your butt pad or whatever?

Like.

And it's just like, those are. Those are the Gong show situations. It's like just trusting your other person. Like. And I didn't even think about it with you because I, you know, it's just like, yeah, she freaking got it. And vice versa. You were just like, yeah, he's watching it. Don't worry about it.

Yeah. I think the first words we said to each other is, you're like, do you need a jacket?

Oh, yeah.

Like a jacket for a rear, for your support. And I was like, yes, perfect. Like, toss me your jacket. And then I got laid down, and I was like, oh, I almost probably wouldn't even have needed it. But yeah, yeah, that's the F. And then we double checked ranges at one point. And then I was like, are you ready?

Yeah, man. And there was something in that checking ranges, too. So every range finder is different. You're rocking the Sig, and I'm rocking a maven. And the maven gives me the cut, but it doesn't give me line of sight. And yours gives you line of sight and the cut. And so when I arranged, I was like, 5, 02 or whatever, 504, whatever it was. And you're like, wait, no, mine's 5, 20 something. And I was like, wait, wait, check your cut. And it was like, okay, okay, we're. We're good. We're good.

Yeah.

But it was just, like, really important to verify. Like, we're both looking at the same range. Like, you're not. Like, I always think that, especially when you're taking these longer shots. Dude, getting a good range is everything. If you don't have a good range, your whole ballistics, your dope is all off.

And that's why I. I asked, like, you know, like, you said it. And I was like, that's different than what mine is. And I just was, like, making sure we were. We had the same thing. Like, not that there would be two bears over there, but I'm like, am I losing my. And I ranged a rock or something. You know what I mean? Like, just like, double check. We had time, which helped. I mean, I say we had time, but that bear was no further than 20 yards from a tree or a rock at all times. That he easily could have taken three big strides and. And then we would have been trying to find a hole.

Yeah. And there was, like, a slot in that canyon on the other side. And, like, if you'd have got up into that slot, like, there was timber, and it was just kind of like we'd have to do something totally different if he got out of that little pocket he was in. So it is one of those things, like, you want to move fast because you're like, well, let's make good on the opportunity that's in front of us. But you don't want to move so fast that you muck it up. You know, like, you screw something up and don't go through your process. It's a important balance.

This is a question that I would have asked. I would ask you, like, just randomly glassing on the mountain is like, you know, the amount of time that we spend or just say like an average person spends versus the amount of time that they're, like, actually shooting something or setting up to shoot something. Like, the setting up to shoot something is a really small percentage of the overall, like, everything else. And sometimes I feel like people almost freeze up and, like, kind of don't know what to do or they don't do it fast enough.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Oh, it happens all the time guiding. Yes, it is. All the time guiding. You're like, all right, brother, like, you have one job. You just gotta.

Yeah.

Find it in your scope and squeeze. Like, get comfortable and squeeze a trigger. Like, that's. That's the hunter's, like, only real purpose. Especially when you're hunting with two people. It's like. Like, that is it. And that was the fun part about you'd been doing that. And it's like, obviously not a problem. But when you're with other people, especially when, like you said, I think it happens a lot when people who haven't hunted in, like, a western style before having to find something in their scope for whatever reason, you know, Like, I feel like half the damn time people are laying down to shoot something and their scopes on 16 power or whatever their top end is, and you're just like, oh, my God, no, no. Start a low. You know, you got to go through some of those basics. But, like, it's an. It's a critical piece that I think you gotta be checking all the time. And it might just be first nature, you know, come second nature. To a lot of us like that are doing a lot, but it's important to remember.

Oh yeah. And even practicing that stuff to do it like as efficient, as efficient as possible. Like, you know, you usually, you're at the range and shooting. I won't spend a ton of time on this, but usually you're like at the range and shooting and like, you know, you have time to get stuff right. You don't really have a lot of time to get stuff right. Like, I bet you from the time that we came, like kind of got out to that glass or that like shooting position, I bet you from the time you saw him and knew he was there to the time we sat up and shot was like what, it was under five minutes?

Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure.

I mean, and that's. I think some people think that it's going to be like you're have a lot of time to set up and then you're going to watch him. It's going to be like this really romantic thing and it's like, no, you gotta, you gotta do it while the opportunity is there with like a balance of not like rushing too much, you know.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's always that thing that people say is like, well, you have more time than you think. Well, I think part of it is not that you have more time than you think, but doing everything to get ready for a shot doesn't take that much time if you're smooth with it. Correct?

Yeah.

If you're just like, if you've practiced, you're like, okay, got my, you know, I know how to extend my bike, dude. That is one of the things that drives me nuts. People who don't know how to extend their bipod quickly or like get their things like, you know, leveled out and all those like little details. If you don't practice it, you're not gonna know how to do it quickly. Um, so I think that's like one of the biggest off season things. And it's funny you say all this because like, two days later, like after you left, I went out to the range and I actually practiced these things. Not, I didn't like necessarily draw it, the connection, but I was like, oh, yeah, I just want to like, get good. I got the new tricer bipod and I knew it worked fine and like, I could, I was shot with it the week prior before you got here. But I also was like, man, I want to like, make sure I'm fast with it and like mess with those types of things. And I don't think people really think about that very often?

No. No, because you can, you know, you can throw a bipod on and you can know how it works, but you put some pressure on you, and you haven't messed with it that much, and you'll forget and then get flustered and then be like, screw it. I'm gonna stick it on this tree or something.

Yeah.

And it's not a solid, and, I mean, we'll dig into the gear stuff, but confident and being comfortable with what you have is everything.

Dude, it makes so much of a difference. Yeah. So I guess really the punchline at the end of all this is like, you made a freaking stellar shot. It was awesome. I had, you know, and I had time to get my. My capture, like, my phone going on my capture and recorded it, and you just absolutely smoked this. This bear. It was freaking awesome.

I felt, you know, I felt real confident on it when I squeezed a shot. And there was no other way that. That, you know, theoretically, like, could have gone in my brain.

Yeah.

But it was. It always makes you feel real good about when you see that. When you see that land right where you. Where you wanted it.

Yep, that's exactly right. And especially, you know, bears can be kind of finicky. Like, they're not. They don't. They don't have a forgiving sweet spot, you know? Like, I actually had another friend of mine lose one last weekend. Just, you know, I don't know the exact scenario. I haven't gotten the story, but it just happens probably more often with them than it does with. With deer and elk, for whatever reason. So, yeah, that was pretty sweet. It went 10, 15 yards, and it started doing the spinning that you've seen on tv. And then all of a sudden, I was like, oh, dude.

It surprised me. I mean, I expected to shoot and be like, okay, you know, gotta get hit or something, but I thought he was gonna run straight down and then be out of sight, and then we were gonna have to go recover.

Yep.

I mean, he didn't move 20 yards.

Yep. Yep. It was awesome. I mean, what you're describing is what has happened. I shot off of a cliff one time, and the bullet trajectory was, like, down through the spine. And that bear didn't go anywhere. Actually, that's happened twice. But besides those two examples, they normally do what you just described and, like, take off, and you're like, oh, um, but this one did. It was perfect.

Yeah. Yeah, it was awesome.

Yeah. So one of the things you kind of mentioned earlier, you were like, yeah, we had seen a bunch of sign on that north slope and I just like, we were cold and I like had run up to go to the bathroom or whatever and just warm up. And when I went, I like started noticing there was a bunch of rolled over rocks and then there were some torn up trees or in the timber. And I came back and told you, I was like, hey, there's been a bear here somewhere. And then we go down to recover this bear and we find a bunch more sign of where he's been living. And I really think, you know, after putting those two pieces together, I'm like, I think these guys, until the rut hits and they start cruising for salads, they live in a pretty small zone, you know, like we're talking like a half mile by a half mile.

Yeah. Do you think he would have bounced over to the next drainage that would be like, you know, the next south facing slope that would have been behind.

Us or like, you mean just in general?

Probably not that day, but just like kind of in general.

He certainly could have. But all the things I've seen is like from like May 15th and earlier, they're in a really tight pattern, like bed feed 200, 300 yards away, bed in the timber. That's like close by. They keep a pretty tight program until later in the season. So I think that that's, it's probably, you know, we were right on the cusp of when they would start. You know, I think you got em on the 16th, right?

Yep.

Um, yeah, we were right on the cusp of when they'll start actually opening up their home home range a little bit more. So.

Okay.

Yeah, so we walk up to that bear and dude, I think he was just, he grew. As soon as we got there, I was just like, oh, no way. And I was trying to keep my stuff together because I was like, I didn't want to over hype this thing, but I was like, golly, this is a good one.

What were you thinking?

Yeah. Hey everybody. I know you're enjoying this great podcast with my friend Jordan Budd, but I wanted to take a sec to make sure that you knew that we are still scheduling people for Hunt west sessions and hunt plans for the 2025 fall hunting season. If you'd like to work with me on a service to help plan your hunt, better be sure to get a hold of me@jadenuntwest.net via email and we'll get something going. Okay, back to the show. You're listening to the Hunt west podcast.

He seems like a Big bear to me, but I don't really know what I'm looking at. You know, like, I've been around a few, but I mean, you know, total like four maybe that were like laying on the ground in front of me. And you know, they're hard to judge. Like, they're hard to judge anyways. But yeah, on the, I mean, to me, to be honest with you, and I told Leah this too before I left, I was like the absolute Mecca for me would be like some kind of a colored bear, like chocolate with the white patch. Like he had was like more than I could have ever. You know, you say that stuff, you know, it's like, wouldn't it be awesome to shoot 190 inch deer? Yeah, but you never think that it's actually going to happen. So then just the color lay in there. And then, I mean, the size too. Like, I, you know, I wasn't trying to be picky. I just, you know, the takeaway to this is I just lucked out, I guess.

Well, it's funny, like, I think I had told you like last year, I, I, the bear I shot was one that was like, it shrunk on me big time probably. Cause I glass it up in my big spotter at 400 yards or whatever. And I had, you know, max power and I was like, oh, yeah, good to go. And then walk up. I'm like, not what I thought.

Yeah.

Um, so I think, you know, just the whole setup was just perfect for us. Being like, oh, that's a, that's a good one. And then you get it and then you walk up and he was like, oh, bigger than we thought. Um, yeah, that thing was awesome. Uh, for people who know bear scores and stuff. Like, so Jordan, before you came, I was like, I'm, we gotta, we gotta make sure it's not like a tiny, we don't want the shrinkage that I had going last year.

Yeah.

But I was like, yeah, like a five to six foot bear is probably average. Someone there, five, six. I've killed a handful of five, six bears. Like basically like that's kind of the average I've found. And, and I was like, if we do something like that, like, that's perfect. And then my best bear was like a six, two bear. The way that they square them is they take the length tip of the nose, the tip of the tail, and then they do the width tip of the claws. The tip of the claws. And then you add those two lengths together and then divide by two. That's how you get A bare square.

Yeah.

And so, like, my best bear was, like, six, two. So I was like, you know, if we break six foot, like, we'll be doing something.

Yeah.

And so we. We walk up to this thing, and I was like, holy crap, I think this is bigger than my better bear. And then we, you know, fast forward, we get them measured, and, dude, that wingspan was insane. We laid them out in your trailer.

Gnarly.

It was so cool. We laid them out in your trailer, and both claws are, like, touching each side, and they're like, jordan, how wide is your trailer? And you're like seven foot. And I was like, no freaking way. So we got them measured, and I think you probably have some insulation or whatever that shrinks up that seven foot. Yep. But we got him measured at six, eight wingspan, and I was like, oh, my goodness, this thing is huge.

Yeah. And six, four, nose to tail, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was just like, it was a stellar bear. And the funny thing is, you know, like, I had some friends who were like, oh, of course. You go out and, you know, like, our mutual friend Troy, he was like, him and I went bear hunting for a week, and we saw one south cubs and a couple years ago, and he's like, oh, you got. And just put her on the. Put her on a cranker. And I was like, no, no, no, no. I don't think people understand. Like, it just, like, is bare. Densities are low enough, and sometimes you just freaking get lucky, you know, like, time, Right? Exactly.

Exactly. And the little decisions it takes to get there, like, you know, if we would have decided just to trudge on through and go through there, you know, we might have bumped him. I mean, we might have seen him, but we might have bumped him. You know, we might have seen some tracks and some sign and be like, all right, we're going to come back here. But, yeah, it's just those little decisions, like, pushing to the better glassing point.

Yep. That's what makes it. That's what makes it. For sure.

It is. I mean, it. You know, it is right place, right time, and it's a large amount of luck. But a lot of that luck is made with making good decisions.

So my friend Kenneth and I, we've shot three bears out of the same canyon the last two years, and I've got a theory on this. And we've seen a bunch of them in there. I think I saw, like, five or six last year. And then he. He saw a handful, too, that I. He saw a couple bears. I didn't see, and I'm starting to think, like, you know, if you're seeing a lot of them, you're probably like in the wrong place for like the big old crusty dude, you know.

Oh yeah.

This is a theory that I'm. I'm going to continue testing, but I was like, every time I've gotten a big one, it's been just like the only one I've seen all season. And I've been out grinding for, you know, however many days. And it just so happened, like, obviously you. The day that we started hunting was like really good conditions and everything, like panned out. But on the other side of this, like, I was. I've. I glassed for like five days before you showed up in different places and didn't see a bear. You know, like, it just, it just really is. Is conditions and place dependent. Um, so I think that's the other piece of this equation that like, you know, obviously we did a lot of things right, but also, sometimes it's like, sometimes it pays to be a little lucky too.

A hundred percent. And I'll take it.

Yeah. So you were already talking about. Okay, well actually I want to talk about that pack out because like every good pack out, it. It had all the pieces that you look for.

So we might have underestimated.

Yeah.

The total.

We underestimated the big time. What I think we got down to the bear and we were like, oh, like I think it's about 2 miles and 800 vertical. This shouldn't be a problem.

Yeah, we got him. I mean, we got him like, you know, we skinned him, quartered in game bags, we split him up amongst the two of us and we were like, yeah, it's like, you know, two and a half miles, 800ft of vert. Some of that's going to be, you know, through some probably thick stuff and across cricks and I mean it's not going to be the greatest traversing, but we're going to be fine. We were so pumped. And when I picked my pack up to like move it to where I could get into it better, I was like, oh, no. And then I got into it and I got stood up and I was still like, oh, no. It just like I was expecting like £80, you know.

Yeah.

And we were probably a bit over that. I just, you know, I was like, I can get out of anywhere with 80 pounds with enough time, but I was hurting with that.

At some point, we should measure our base weight packs. Like. Yeah, just with the gear. I measured mine without A rifle. And I was like, at 20, I think. Yeah, I was at 25 pounds base weight.

Okay. Yeah.

And then we measured the quarters, and I think we were right around 100 pounds of meat. And then the hide and head was like 60 pounds. So if you go 160 and then each of us are probably rocking, you know, 35 pound packs, so that's another 70. Come on. Mental math was that 230 pounds and then, you know, split that up against two people and you're rocking 115 pound packs.

Yeah, I was literally like, what is wrong with me? Like, did Nebraska really do this much to me in the. In the elevation difference? And then. Yeah, I. My quad was trying to cramp at one point, and I mean, we made it two and a half miles. When did we drop the meat? Like a mile.

We had a mile left. Yeah.

Yeah.

But the important thing is, and I do this, I try to just do this as a standard. Now, if things start getting dangerous with heavyweight, like, if it's more than just like, it sucks, but it, like there's opportunity for getting injured, then that's when I, like, drop. I drop weight, you know?

Yeah.

I do it with me, myself personally, I do it with my friends, I do it with clients. Like, I just am not going to be the guy who blows out his knee. And then other people got to come help, you know, get all this stuff out. And then you have to deal with like freaking physical therapy and surgery on your meniscus or whatever the case is. Right.

Yeah. And we were not cramped on time. You know, we had time. The weather was nice getting back. I mean, it was a mile from the side by side. Like, getting back in there was really gonna be. Was gonna be no big deal. But yeah, we. You were like, let's just. Let's just drop the meat and get out of here, and then we'll come back in the morning. And we were right next to a creek. We like, tied them off on some tree roots coming out of the ground. So they were, you know, for some they were kind of hanging like, not exactly from a tree, but, you know, they were hanging. Their air could get all around them right next to a really cold creek and on a slope that doesn't get any sun, if much at all sun ever, until like the middle of the afternoon. And so that's what we did.

Yeah. I mean, and just to paint the picture, like the. The conditions that made it so we were like, okay, this could be dangerous. Like, the whole. The first mile out, we were cruising we were on, like, a really good cattle trail or elk trail or whatever it was, and it was a south slope, so it was all burned off. And so, like, I mean, it was hard, but, like, we were just kind of working our way up. It was like 400amile. Not terrible. And then we go to cross the creek and then come up the north slope. And that north slope, we still had places where, like, the drifts were waist deep, you know, and you were breaking through. And underneath all that waist deep snow was also deadfall in places. And it was just like, dude, this is. This, especially with a heavy pack, is, like, recipe for a mistake of, like, epic proportions. So, yeah, that was where we were like, okay, let's just ditch it and then come back and. And that was easy. So in Wyoming, you have to check in every bear that gets killed. And I just happened to be friends with the bear guys in. In my hometown, so I was able to just be like, texted him, hey, can we meet you in the morning? Check this thing in. So we checked it in, and then we went back and got meat. It was no problems.

Yeah. Yeah, it was easy.

Yeah.

Didn't. Didn't take us too long. But, dude, that post holing through some of that snow with the deadfall underneath, and it's like, where it's the weakest is, like, right around where there's a log under there. And so every time you go through, you're like, brushing up against a log, and I'm like, I mean, one sharp stick poking in your leg, like, is bad news. Not good.

Yeah, well, I mean, you even ripped your pants on. On some sticks and stuff. Broken through. Yeah. I was like, I mean, glad that wasn't your skin, but yeah, no, it was a good. It was a good decision. And I think some people get so stubborn, they'll be like, oh, we got to get it out tonight. And we're like, dude, we got time. Like, it's not a big deal.

Yeah.

So what do we. We got back at like, 11pm and then we got back to the trailhead at, like, the truck at like, midnight. Ish. Something like that.

Yeah.

And wasn't too bad. No, I was telling you too. I was like, yep, this is. This is exactly how every bear pack out has ever gone. It's like, not necessarily with the deadfall and the. And the snow, though it is pretty common. But like, a midnight arrival, like, that's right on schedule.

Just like I remember. Gosh, I asked you. I asked you something like, if we, like, if you would sit on that glassing point until, like, you know, dead dark. Or if we would like, kind of hunt our way out to get back at the side by side, like at dark, you're like, nope, sit on the glassing point till dark. Dark. He's like, or you said we have all night to get it out. Yep. I'm like, that's a good point that people don't think about very often. You know, like, the dark is, you know, I don't love the dark, but it doesn't, like, super intimidate me. But some people are like, they don't want to sit. They don't want to be out there in the dark.

Yeah. And it's one of those things. Like, I know a lot of people don't like hiking in the dark, especially if you don't know the place. But I mean, I even. I don't mind, like, especially if it's a full moon. I probably. And it's easy to see. I won't even rock a headlamp. But I always have two headlamps. And then you have your cell phone light. You know, like, if you need. I would just make sure that we have plenty of light. Because if you're. If you're making night moves and you're just like working all night by headlight, you're going to need either spare batteries or another headlamp or something to keep you moving and keep you working in a safe way too. So. Yeah, that's what I mean. I just prepare for it. It's just if you're not prepared for it, though, it is a bad situation to be in. So I think that's one of the things. Both of us were rocking and rolling. I don't. Did you have two headlamps with you?

I did, yeah.

Yeah. See, we didn't even talk about that beforehand. But, you know, that's old saying. Like, two is one, one is nine. Technically we had three because we also had cell phones. So. Yeah, no, it worked out good. Um, okay, so I wanted to get your. Your kind of gear rundown real quick.

Yeah.

So you made a great shot with your rifle and I would love to know what your rifle setup is. I know a lot of people talk about big calibers for bears and I've actually, I've backed off that. You know, I used to use a.300 short mag and now I'm at a 65 PRC. What were you using?

So I was using a sig cross 6.5 Creedmoor. That is the rifle that I have been using the last couple years. For, I mean, 90% of everything, like on an elk or something. Um, I also have a. A Sig. It's a cross. It's like a. They call it a sawtooth Magnum. It's in a 7 PRC. And you know that for elk, for a little extra. A little extra umph is. Is always good, but for kind of most everything. I'm so comfortable with this, with this six five. Um, and, you know, more. So I actually just had somebody ask me, like, why did you take a 65 Creedmore for bears? Like a caliber selection thing. And I think sometimes people put too much stock in the caliber. Does that make any sense?

110%.

Yeah. I mean, they're just like, well, you have to have a different caliber for like every. Every animal or something like that. And I'm like, man, I feel like accuracy is everything. And if you have a rifle that you're extremely comfortable with and you know it's accurate, you know where it shoots, your whole system is, like, dialed. Like, why go jump to a different caliber, which is going to be a different gun and a different setup when it's mostly accuracy anyways.

Oh, for sure. And one of the things like. So the other thing. What. What bullet were you shooting? I think that that bullet selection, especially with bears, also makes a big difference.

Yeah, the Acubon 140 grain accubons.

Dude, it was bad medicine.

It was pretty bad medicine.

Yeah. That exit, actually, I will say this. We didn't talk about this much, but the exit wound on it was like, kind of perfect. Like, you didn't jack up the hide coming out the backside, but that bullet kept itself together and what just punched right through both sides, but still made like a really. That one front quarter, for instance, was like, pretty. Pretty jacked up behind the. Behind the meat itself, like, just in the cavity. And I was like, dude, that's just what you're looking for. Major damage inside the cavity, not a ton of meat loss. Like, that was a really good combination. I like that combo a lot.

Yeah, I really. I really like that bullet. And I was just like, you know, I'm. I'm not like a big reloader. So I was just doing boxed. Boxed ammunition, and Sig actually loads that stuff. And I think they call it their platinum hunter or something like that. You know, I shoot with like a chronograph just to make sure my speeds are dialed. And, like, the standard deviation on that box stuff is single digits.

Oh, really?

Yeah, it's so good. I mean, that same. They've been making that for a long time. They haven't always called it that but they've been making that load for a long time. I shot my doll sheep in Alaska with it and I've shot some deer with it. And it is just such a. I don't know, for bo stuff off the shelf, like pretty dang hard to beat.

You know the other thing I was, I was. I had asked you about the bul bullet selection because like I like using monometals in these smaller calibers in particular because they, they will punch through, you know, get. Get two holes out of it and stuff. Um, but if you'd have been. I just like looked this up. If you'd have been using the monometal out of the 65 creed, that 500 yard shot probably wouldn't opened the bullet. I just looked it up like in my 6.5prc. I've just it when I'm using those mono metals. It's a 500 yard gun. Like you lose too much velocity after 500 for it to perform the way it's supposed to.

Not enough velocity to open.

Yep, yep. But that's where like again like you just knew your, you knew your gear so well. It was just like oh, you rolled in with acubons. Hell yeah. Like we can, we can do what we need to do.

Yeah. And something quick on bears. I didn't even ask you. I've just heard from other people. But like you really want those two holes correct because they have so much fat that it'll plug a hole. Oh yeah, right. And then they won't bleed and they'll just, they'll fill up and die. But they'll do like a death run. And then you know, then you're trying to figure out where they're at.

Yeah, it's really tough. I've. I've had some. I've lost a bear. I've lost. Well, I guess I've lost two bears but the first one I lost. I don't, I don't know what happened there. But the second one. Yeah, I just like ran out of blood and I like looked for the rest of the bear season in that canyon. Never found him really. So I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if it plugged up eventually and he made it like I hit him too low or something. But yeah. Yeah, it's really easy to lose a bear. Especially if you only get one. One hole and then like, like they stop up with blood. You're just like we're screwed. You know?

Yeah.

So no, it worked out really good. What was your. What was your optic stack? I mean, like, from your rifle to, like, what you're carrying?

Yep. So shooting. I'm a big sig fan, so I was the tango DMR. The 3 to 18 scope. I love that 3 to 18 power for hunting stuff. And so that. That was my scope. It does have, like a external adjustable turret. And then with that is like the. The kilo 8K rangefinder. And yeah, I can, you know, I put all of my ballistic data and like, my velocities and stuff inside that rangefinder, and it does the solutions for me. And, you know, you got to go out and validate, which I did before I came on that hunt. I. I double, triple checked it at distance, and we were all good. So I was real solid with that setup. Um, and then I was just doing 10 by 42 binoculars on my chest. And then the Oscar 8, the 80 millimeter spotter.

Nice. Um, I. It was kind of funny. I don't think we discussed it when we were on the mountain, but I was thinking about this, and I was like, dude, we had like, the same combination of. Of gear, obviously different brands. Like, I'm a big maven guy.

Yeah.

But, like, I ran a 10 power binocular on my chest that we put on a tripod every now and then.

Yeah.

Well, let me say we put it on tripod most of the time, and then. Yeah, basically like that. I think the maven is an 85 millimeter spiny scope. But yeah, it's like the same thing. It's like, look, I have a really good spotter to verify what you're looking at and then have a solid set of 10 by 40 twos with good field of view.

And you're good to go on a tripod.

Yep. Oh, no, I just looked up maven is the S1A, which is what I have is an 80 millimeter. So we were literally running the same freaking combo.

Same setup. It's just solid, man. I mean, I. I use that. I mean, I'm sure you're the same, but I use that for pretty much everything. Every once in a while, I break out 15s if we're glass in real long distances, especially like scouting for mule deer or something. But for the most part, it's tens on the chest, 80 in the pack and roll.

Yeah, I mean, it does add some weight. I think yours is. Yours is again, like, very similar niche that they. They fit in. But just because I have this on here, like my tripod or. No, my spotting scope. Is 64 ounces. Okay. So it's a, it's a look at mine divided by 16£4. So it is like, I mean you're, you're dinging yourself as far as like this, this heavy pack out we had going. I mean we're probably somewhere around, somewhere around 10 pounds. I mean, I also have a cover on it which is, you know, not just a couple ounces but the. Between the two of us, we probably had around 10 pounds in optics that we were rocking, you know. And that's just a price you paid though. I'd rather have to do that and be able to actually find the critter and judge it than not have it and then not find what you're looking for. Not have a heavy pack out in the first place, you know?

Yeah. I mean in the end like I, I'm getting to the point where like, you know, I used to weigh my. I need to go out and do it again, just like set it up just so I know kind of what my day weight is. But I've just gotten to the point where I'm like, everything that's in there, I need it. So if I start weighing it and then try to start cutting stuff out of it, I'm going to be mad at myself on the mountain. So instead I'll just. If it's in there, I need it. And some of that's just, you know, repetition and lots of doing it.

Yeah. But yeah, and it. That's exactly right. You just go like, well, we just need this stuff. Yeah.

I mean there's no choice.

Yeah, exactly. And both of us, you know, on that same note, like both of us are rocking Kafaru packs.

Yeah.

I've got an older pack but that get like they're not the lightest base weight, you know, in the planet, but they just have everything we need.

So we only had 115 pounds in them and none of the straps broke. So.

Yeah, dude, that's exactly right. I mean they're just built bomb proof. You can't really, you can't really substitute like a pack that freaking works where you need it to work, you know, for one that might be lighter weight.

Yeah.

Fail on you.

You just can't.

Can you talk about the pack you were using?

Yeah, I was using, I was using a new, a new bag from them. It was the Kafaru Hoodlum. I've been a fan of that, that bag for a while and just kind of its overall setup, but they just came out with a gen 2 and so that's that's what I had on. Real similar, honestly to the Gen one. They changed some of their attachment systems on the back and how some things attach. But you know, in general, I think it's right in that 5,6000 cubic inch zone, which is a little big for a day pack. But when you have to put an entire bear height in it with meat and still have your stuff in it, like I did that. I fit it all inside the bag on our way out to like two side pockets that zipper shut so you can like zip your spotter in it and just. Yeah, I'm doing a review on it for. For Rock Slide, so I'll do like some more specific talking about it and stuff on there when I do that review.

That'll be good. I'm looking forward to that review. I think it'll. Yeah, it'll come out awesome.

Yeah. And you, you had the reckoning, right?

Yeah, the old school reckoning.

One of my favorite bags of all time.

It is a sweet bag I like. So the biggest difference between the reckoning and the hoodlum is that the. My pockets on the side don't have a zipper. They're just open top.

How do you like that?

I don't mind it at all. You know, like it fits my spotter all the way in it and it's not. Well, as long as I don't make. As long as there's nothing in the bottom of that pocket, my spotter is still covered. So I'm not a big. Yeah, I'm not too worried about it. But you know, and I think both of these were like basically the same size of pack, you know, on that 5,000, you know, when they're not rocking the big lids and stuff and you've got the. This is the difference between you and I. You've got like the claymore and then you've got that. Is it the Sherman that's on the outside or something?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You've got the additional attachments on yours and I just have one little pouch on top of mine just for like the quick to access stuff. Yeah, so there's a bunch of different ways you can run the Kafaru, but like. Yeah, we basically were just running the same size bag and same purpose but just different configurations.

Yeah, I like that. That Sherman pocket that sticks on the back like that. I like it to put my rifle in.

Oh, okay.

Kind of keeps my. It keeps my rifle like pinched in there. Like I ran one of the pocket or one of the straps that like is sewn into the Back of that pack. I ran it over the top of that rifle for like the. I don't know, maybe the first couple times we moved and sat down and moved and sat down. And then I didn't even do that anymore. I just like literally fold the stock, put the, like kind of put the butt of it, I guess in the bottom of that Sherman pocket and then clipped the Sherman pocket up over it and it never moved.

Dude, that's. That's a. Just having a really good system for doing stuff like that is so important.

Yeah.

We kind of talked about it when we were on the mountain, but I. I rock. Like basically the same purpose of my. I've got the FHF gear, like, panel.

Yeah.

And it does this. It does the same thing. You know, maybe a little bit, you know, less storage in the panel obviously than the pocket. But.

Yeah, one thing I liked about that is you. There's like a little zippered portion on that thing that you stuffed glassing pad into.

Yeah.

And then you just like, it has quick detaches. So you just like pop it off your pack and then you have like some place to sit if you don't want to sit on your pack.

Yeah, I really like that combo. And it's funny because, you know, I think Leah was the one who's asking me about it and I was like, yeah, I literally went down to the. To Ace Hardware and bought a, like a knee pad they use for gardening and then just like trimmed it to fit inside that pocket. Um, so. Yeah. And that way I've got a glassing pad without looking like I've. I'm carrying a glassing pad. You know, it can't be one of those guys.

Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We are. We're gonna steal that idea.

Oh, I love it. That's cool. No, man, that worked out really good. Oh yeah. And as far as our butchering kit, I think, yeah. We learned or, you know, we. We remembered or learned a little too late that we should have brought some gloves, but. Because like you had a cut on your finger.

Yeah.

And you said it was pretty angry after cutting up that bear.

It was angry the next day. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure it was from. I mean, God knows what, you know, was on there. Like what I had my hands in, like getting them bloody and then like sitting them on the ground and stuff. Yeah. It just got dirty and I like cleaned it out. Once we got back to the hotel room that night, about as good as I could or I felt like I Could. And then I ended up, yeah, it stung in the morning when I woke up. So we. We went to the store and got some hydrogen peroxide and Neosporin and that was good. But gloves would have been better. And kind of like we had talked about before, like when we were out there, gloves are just nice in general. Like, you know, I always forget to put them on usually. But when I do put them on, I mean, you just like, when you're done, you take the gloves off and there's just like, no trying to wash your hands off in snow or anything like that. There's a lot cleaner.

Yeah, I used a bunch of your baby wipes because I was like, I. Yeah, I got my hands just covered in this crap, but I still want some snacks, you know, I was like, yeah, especially with a bear. I'm like, I'm not trying to put, you know, raw bear stuff in my mouth here. So that was a piece of the butcher kit that I feel like I was like, okay, they gotta shore that up. My kill kit has gloves in it now. But we were both. I was rocking the Argali game bags. Those things work freaking good. Generally speaking. You use something different, right?

No, I. I usually use those Argalis.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, Yep. I usually use them. Like. Big Argali game bag fan. We have. We've. We are still in the process of moving and so coming up with all this, we've got stuff scattered between two different states. So trying to. Trying to get all this stuff found for the spring trip was a little funny. And I kind of had some partial Argali ones. But when you were like, oh, I have a set, I kind of just leaned on you.

Yeah, yeah.

For that set. Yeah.

And I like. I just, generally speaking, like to use those meat on bone elk big game bags. Like, okay, the. The light ones. Like, the high country set is nice for like deer or pronghorn, but when you're dealing with like these bigger critters, I just was like, dude, give me a big bag. And then I think both of us actually put it inside our bags, didn't we?

Yeah, I'm a big fan of that. It just rides so much better.

Yeah, I like that a lot better too. Unfortunately, like, again, if normally in my kill kit, I've got garbage bags. And I asked you, you got garbage bags? You're like, yep, side by side. And I was like, oh, man. So I had to go and get the bathtub all gross and clean out the pack. Was your pack in pretty bad shape?

Yeah, it still Is Jaden okay?

Well, I was leaving for a trip so I had to get it done real quick. So you still got time. Yeah. I mean that's the worst part about putting stuff inside your pack is like if you're on a multi day hunt or like multi animal hunt and your pack is just nasty for the next, you know, little while because you put the game bags in the middle of your pack, like that's a different thing than like what we were doing.

So yeah, it's worth just like getting a contractor bag and throwing it at the bottom of your pack and forgetting about it until you need it.

Yep, for sure. I will say though, if somebody has like a bunch of gear or like a smaller pack and they need to use the frame, I think that's where those, those tighter fitting game bags come in because then it's not splitting out the size.

Yeah.

You know, and it rides a little better. But yeah, that's the biggest difference I think. I don't know is that about what you do too is like if you got to use the frame you use in a different or tighter fitting bag.

Yeah, I mean just kind of depends to be honest with you. I usually only take those, those high country bags, the smaller ones mostly just because they do, they are a bit more slender and just pack better. You know for like elk or something like that we'll just take the meat on bone ones but for the most part with like, I mean even a quarter or a bone in deer quarter will fit in those high country bags.

Oh for sure.

So for the most part like that's what I'm using so they just kind of fit pretty slender anyways but just kind of in general if I do use a smaller bag like I'll use a load shelf but I would just way prefer to put it in the bag.

Yeah, me too, me too. I thought it was kind of funny both of us like. So I had a Havillon or it's a Gerber but you know one of the replaceable blade ones that I always keep on my chest harness.

Yeah.

But then I like we go to butcher and I pull out like my K1 iron wheel knife. I look at your knife and I'm like oh it's the same freaking idea. It's like a small fixed blade that's like really ultralight but yours was pretty sick. What, what knife are you using?

Yeah, it's from a company called, it's Simbita Custom knives like S I E M B I D A. I think he's out of I believe, Iowa. He makes some really sweet knives. And I think that the. That model that I have is a Finch. I mean, they're. They're basically like custom. Like, they're. I mean, there. It's a custom knife, right? He. That specific one is Magnacut steel, which is like, you know, the latest, greatest, best steel. So that's Magnacut. And then he can do, like, different colors and stuff in your handle. And mine actually has inlays that are glow in the dark, so.

That's super sick.

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's so nice. But they're just like, you know, fits well in the hand. Who doesn't love something that's kind of a custom deal that they built just for themselves, you know?

Yeah, that's exactly right. I looked it up. The iron wills have an A2 steel, and they're sweet, they hold a good edge, but, God, when they lose their edge, they're just freaking tough to get back into shape.

Hard. Yeah.

I don't know about. I don't know about that steel you were using, but mine is like, I, I. You. I did it when we were hunting. I was like, just touch it up on my Arali belt, which is a sweet feature of that belt, but you just kind of keep it touched up, and that way you don't lose the edge. But does yours. Is it pretty easy to keep sharp or is it one of those you gotta kind of keep on?

No, it's. It's pretty easy. It's pretty easy to touch up. Like, I, I should touch it up throughout that. Like, you know, by the end of that bear, it was getting. I felt like it was getting kind of dull. Um, but, you know, we were working through knuckles and stuff too with it, so you start doing that stuff and you just lose your edge so much faster, it seems like. But no, that Magnacut's pretty, pretty easy. I have one of those. It's from work sharp. They have so many sharpeners now. I don't remember, but you. Basically, it's the one that you clamp your knife into and then you put the. You put the stone to the knife.

Yeah, that's what. My roommate's got one of those, and I've stolen a couple times. It's freaking nice. It gets things sharp.

I mean, I'm. I'm not like a super sharp knife nerd, but that thing will. It makes it so easy that there's just no reason to. To not have a sharp knife for me now since I own it.

Dude, I totally agree. While we're thinking about gear. Was there anything else on that trip that you were like, good, I'm so glad we had that. Or like, I wish we would have had this.

Man. I don't really think so. Like, you know, the trekking pole thing was pretty critical when we had that much weight on and trying to cross cricks and stuff, you know, I think we were both using the. Just the same Argali poles. Those are the best trekking poles I found.

Yeah, me too. And it's like they. They sent me a set last. Last fall and I have just. I don't know about you, man, but I have the worst time with trekking poles. Like, deadfall in particular will just wreck them because they'll. They'll be fall on them or they'll bend between two sticks and like, blah, blah, blah. And I have not. These are the car. I think they're the carbon X is their title. Yeah. Can't get them to break, which, thank God. Hopefully I'm going to knock on wood here and keep that streak going. But again, like, super lightweight rated and sturdy. Yeah, I really. That's one of my favorite pieces of gear I think I've added in the last year.

Yeah, they're. They're awesome. But really beyond that, I mean, I felt like we were pretty set. Yeah.

Just our butchering kit, man.

Yeah.

Which I think if we had it dialed, you know, like, the karma would have swung the other way probably. We were just, you know, couldn't quite have everything together.

That's true. That's what you said, too. You're like, well, we had to forget something.

Yeah. That's a. I. I think all of my trips, I always like. Well, I always forget one thing. I just hope it's not important.

Yeah. Yeah.

So. Oh, cool. Well, thanks for coming out, man. This was such a fun hunt. It's gonna, like. I was just describing it to my girlfriend yesterday. I was like, I honestly think this was like one of the smoothest freaking most enjoyable. Like, just went how it was supposed to go.

Oh, man. Yeah.

I say that we didn't get to where we were trying to go because the snow was there. You know, like there's.

But we didn't need to.

Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah. We didn't even need to. We found, you know, a new spot to the both of us that had a big bear in it and, you know, now you've got new pins on onyx. Go check.

Yep.

For next year, future years. And like, I mean, I just don't see how it could have gone Any better? I super appreciate the invite. Like, it was like, you were wealth of knowledge and, you know, way easygoing and, you know, getting around some of the film stuff. Like, it. It can hold things up. But no, you were. It was awesome. It was awesome. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, of course, man. That was. It was. It was a blast. I loved it. So obviously you kind of mentioned it, but, like, the film's coming out probably the winter or something.

Yeah.

Is that. You're gonna have a bunch of other films this year, right? Like, what else? You got any other fun plans coming up?

Yeah, I've. I have. There's an elk hunt in the works in the edit bay right now from my Nebraska bowl from last year. So that'll be coming out, I would imagine, within this next month here through Meat Eater. Um, so that one's kind of on the docket. And then I have, like, this is one of my. The hunts I just filmed with you. And then we'll have. Let me see. I mean, it depends if I draw Wyoming. I'm supposed to go Wyoming Antelope, and then I'm going to South Dakota with my bow for a mule deer.

Oh, nice. No, I didn't know about that. That's cool. That would be a sweet one. I've heard a lot of people have mixed experiences, but it can be really good if you find a little pocket. So can't wait to see that one too.

Yeah, yeah, it'll be cool.

Sweet. Well, obviously you, like, run an outfit if people want to go hunting with you, like, what do you offer? And then, like, how far out are you booked? Because I think that's the most important piece.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're like northwest Nebraska, like, sand hills type area. Have a ton of white tails. That's kind of our main deal. We have Maram turkeys, too, especially. You know, we just are wrapping up our turkey season right now, and I just. Gosh, those things drive me nuts. But we do have them, and they are purebred Miriam, so they will. They'll work for part of a slam and do a little bit of mule deer hunting. Not a lot, but we do have some slots and I feel like our mule deer quality is coming up, so that's something to look into. But we do archery, rifle and muzzleloader. Our rifle hunts are booked out through 2026, and it just. We just seem to be a solid year and a half in advance. Always year and a half to two years out for our rifle hunts. But archery muzzle over. I do still have some Spots for like, for next year. So. Yeah, if you're interested, let me know. Nebraska's fairly easy to get tags as of right now, so.

Yeah, so someone would have to do that here before they sell out. But that's kind of like an over the counter deal with cap, right?

It is, yeah. Archery is capped, muzzleloaders capped? I mean, like, yes, everything is capped. Some of those, like you can put in for a draw that they'll draw first and then they'll release and like, usually there's leftover tags that you can get, but yeah, man, I mean, they're, they're capped and you know, even they started capping turkeys this last year and I think all the tags were sold out in three days.

Oh, wow. Okay.

So it's getting hard.

So it'd be something. If someone wants to come with you, they'll just. And like, obviously books with you or whatever. They just need to stay on top of like, of getting the tag itself.

Yeah, yeah, I, I'm really good about like everybody that's booked with me, like, they book so far in advance that I'm like full usually before tags ever come on sale. So I send out like a mass email that like, you know, well in advance. That's like, this is the day, this is the time. Like, this is what you need. Make sure you get on and set up your profile beforehand and kind of of all that. So I feel like I do a good job of like keeping everybody on the same page.

Yeah. Well, that's awesome, man. Yeah. I've had multiple friends of mine go out and, and hunt with you and they just had a blast. So I would, it'd be sweet to have some people listen and come out and come check out your whitetail operation. Yeah, other critters too. Well, this has been awesome, dude. I'm. I'm so excited to see the film come out and congrats on a great bear and that was super fun.

Thank you. Yeah, I mean, honestly, the whole thing, more than I could ask for. So.

My pleasure. I freaking love bear hunting and at this point, man, it doesn't matter if I'm pulling the trigger or not. Like, it's a blast.

So, yeah, just fun to go. I get that for sure.

Cool. Well, thank you again for the podcast. Where can people find you if they're wanting to get a hold of you?

Yeah, I guess outfitting wise, like runningwaterhunting.com or just, you know, my personal Instagram is where, where you can find me at. Jordan, buddy.

Perfect. Thank you.

Thanks, Jade.

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