iRealization - Season 01 Episode 02

Good morning. Good morning.

Good morning. These are kind of cool. I'm enjoying having something to do in the mornings. Like a little bit of structure.

Yeah, it's cool. You get used to it. Then when you don't have it, you're like, well, I don't know what to do this morning.

How's things going for you?

Good. Just like you said. Busy with the structured life. You know, there's always action. There's only action. Keeps happening. Keep doing it, you know, trying to.

Get into a rhythm.

Yeah. I mean, eventually you'll, you know, the activity itself has no significance, you know.

Right. It's not. Yeah.

If you're doing it right. Right.

You're just in the flows happening.

Right. That's what it is. Anything that arises is seen to be what it is and does not flow horizontally, if you know what I mean. Horizontal movement of mind is creating time. You know, it makes you think about the future or the past.

Right.

But what is that? Either of that time doesn't exist. Right. There's no past or future. So what is that? What's happening?

You're. You're imagining time is. Time is what. It's the aware, not awareness.

The.

How do you say that?

Right.

It's the. It's higher. Perceiving it. It's your perception of the. It's. It's higher. It's blah. It's you looking at the past in the present. I guess it's looking at what happened.

No, looking at the past, which doesn't exist. That's not what. That doesn't.

Yeah.

Looking at the future also doesn't make any sense. Right. So what actually time is. See what that type is called psychological time, what you're talking about. You're creating time when you say it'll happen tomorrow, right? Because that's. There's no tomorrow. So to say that it will happen tomorrow creates a future. Otherwise, in fact, what is time? You know, actually, what is time is. If there is an idea of some kind before any of this happens, right. There is a flash before you can respond. Something happens. Somebody says something. There is a. Before you respond, what is it? There is a image that flashes which prompts you to respond. And in that image is the full feeling. And all the response is actually captured. It's there in that tiny little flash that just comes to you when you re. When the reaction occurs, Right. The rest is an elaboration, expressing it.

Stretch it out so you can look at it.

Stretch it out so that duration. Aha. That duration of looking at it is what is called as perceiving of time. In order for you to actually experience the idea in its duration, one has to be the mind that examines it in horizontal duration, the thought that moves it in time, that is, that you're considering. But if you, but if you see before, what happens is just a flash, a flash of inspiration or a flash of, like, insight or a flash of memory or a flash of response, or everything and everything is in that you know what you have to say. After that, you keep on persisting. You'll have deeper points. It'll all arise from some original idea. Right.

Right. This is, this is the same way for thinking in general. Just period, all of if. Right. Because if you, if you know it, why do you have to explain it to yourself, what your thoughts are? So you have to, they come to you and then you have to, like, unpack them and look at them.

It's like you have to unpack them and look at them. Only if you have to express it to somebody else.

Yes.

So imagine if you were the only person on the planet.

Probably would stop thinking in words at all. That would just go away.

Maybe, maybe not. But for sure you will realize the pointlessness of thoughts. Because what is it for? Who is it for?

Yeah, to explain it. Yeah. Someone else.

Yes. Definitely not to yourself, because you already know.

Hey, Sarah's been here. Morning, Sarah.

Good morning. Good work on all the.

Oh, thanks.

Yeah, it's great.

I appreciate that. I was really excited about the, about the videos.

Yeah, very cool how simple it was.

Yeah, I didn't expect it to be anywhere near that simple.

So it's. You use Zoho itself, is it? And you just put it on video, Five seconds, something. Yep.

So it says it has to be five seconds and it's not, it's having a little bit of trouble when I add the website. I think because there's a thumbnail.

Yeah. It needs the size correct size picture. Also a smaller one. It's trying to use the biggest picture that you normally download. You want to Download like the 1080 or 1920 or 12, something some smaller.

I think that might be what finally got those videos to post this. The second time was that I had converted them to something much smaller.

Yeah.

But I, I was just so excited about it.

Yeah, it's really cool. We can try new things now with video.

Yeah, absolutely.

Very cool and cool.

I was just gonna say, I, I, I love that we're saying that thoughts don't matter because thoughts really do suck. And they're like the bane of my Existence.

Yes. One has to see what is the thought. Right.

It's just.

Exactly, is it.

What exactly is it?

Yeah.

Ugh.

It's. You know, for me, it's usually the mind creating a bubble of narrative around one thing or another so that I can make it more palatable for myself. And usually I find that if I just don't bother thinking, I mean, I know that. You know what I mean, if I don't bother with the narrative, then. Then every. I can just accept anything that comes into my path and I'm not worried about it. It really releases a great deal of worry not having, like, thoughts.

Right. So to see what is it now? How do you know you have a thought?

Oh, usually it's only if. If I. If I'm doing words, if I'm doing, like, mind words, that's. Then I know that I'm. I'm too busy thinking.

I don't.

I can't tell you. I can't tell you what it is. I don't know.

There are. There are two kinds of thoughts. You know, one may call it as a thought. When you're in the flow state and you're in the work and you've got so many things going on, and you're picking out pictures and videos and you're doing all that stuff, mind is active in the sense that it's processing activity, right? So the processing of activity can also manifest as thought in the sense that it is the thought in action. Right, the thought in action. For example, if you're walking on the street and suddenly you see a bus about to, you know, run you over, coming, barreling down the street. You know, that's the. The automatic mind or the. Or the thinking. The thinking mind doesn't engage there. It's not that you're going to start examining your choices and stuff like that.

Debating on whether or not you can jump out of the way.

Yeah, right. It'll happen before you know it. And then you will reflect on it. You'll be like, oh, did you see that? And so on. Right. But who is that for? Who is that for? You know, who is that expression for? And who is. Where did that expression come from? You see, because you didn't voluntarily do it. It was part of that involuntary jumping out of that place. So you have to see that activity and mind. There are two kinds, you know, one is where things are happening but you are not present, but you're very much there as a witness, right?

Where you're. You're the verb no longer. You're no Longer the noun, doing the thing. You're the verb that is actually doing.

Yes, it's the. You're the experiencing. Actually, to be specific, you're not the doing either, but you're experiencing the doing or the happenings to be specific because there is no doer there, you see? Right. The car was coming because he left home that morning, you know, not because he was there to attack you in the street.

It's very personal when a bus comes down the road, right.

So there is nothing. So if you see that clearly, you'll learn nothing personal whatsoever in the universe. Right.

That's simply a happening.

Right. None of the people that you met was predestined or you planned it or whatever, you know, it was predestined is what I mean. It wasn't like you planned it or, you know, you might want it, you might want something. But what actually happens, you reconcile yourself to it. Oh yeah, that's what I wanted or that's kind of what I wanted or whatever. Right, right. But that's not what reality is. Reality is you had no choice in who you meet, you know?

Yeah, I feel like usually the, the, the like the explaining thinking only is, is only to put my mind to sleep. Like it's only like to make the baby hush for a little while. Like, here's an explanation. Hush, baby, go to bed.

I like that.

Yes. You see, what happens is when you see a flower from a distance and use it's very nice and all what does that. What happens? You appreciate it. You say, wow, look at that beautiful flower from a distance. Which means you're visually experiencing it. Yeah, your eyes, your eyesight, your senses. The eyesight, which is a sense, is activated. But you don't know how it smells. It's too far, you know. You certainly don't know how it smells or tastes or touch. You know how it feels, the flower. So from a distance, when you see it, you only get partial knowledge of it. You get the color, for example. So now what? Now you see a flower. It has. Now what happens when the visual stimuli is perceived? What happens?

What do you mean? We said when the visual stimuli.

When the visual stimuli of the colors suddenly come into your field of vision, two things happen. Either you notice it or you don't notice it. You don't notice everything. Right. Like right now you might be sitting on a chair and you won't notice what's on the bottom right of the foot. There's a crack, small crack, small something. You will not know it. Even though if you look down now you might see it, but you were not aware of it before, you know, because you didn't notice it. What is noticing? You see, even something is there in the room. When you walk through a market, you don't notice everything. You don't know everything that you've seen. You just walk through it. Suddenly you'll see something and you'll stop, right? So what is it that occurred there? You see, who's.

Yeah, who's noticing anything, right?

So what is it that notices some stuff and doesn't notice other stuff, right? So first of all, when you see that color come into your vision and suddenly, first thing you have to realize is you have to notice it. So your attention is moved towards the flower. And you know this not because of any other fact than there is a reaction. Suddenly you'll say, oh, that's a flower, you see? So the first thing is the recognition part. It triggers the impressions and memories that you have. And the abstractness of it arises that it is a flower. Because it is a flower. What you have stored is not the actual flower. What have you stored in my memory? You see, concept of a flower, a concept of a flower which then is matched with something seen. And you then classify that as a flower, right? If you go closer, it may not be a flower, it may be something else. And you thought it was a flower for a long time till you corrected that, right? But while that is not corrected, you're in flower world. You're like thinking about a flower and you're saying, oh, that's a flower. And you might want to know more about it. To know more means what? To know is only sense through the senses and mind. So that means you want to know its smell, you want to know how it feels, touches, right? If you can, if you can't smell it, or you can smell it, but you can't touch it, you know, again, for the first time, if you've seen it, you. You're still not, you know, what is it? It's still partial knowledge, you see, right? All the senses are required to give you the complete knowledge of it, you see. So all five, you might now, even after you eat it and everything happens, right, it's gone. Like you've tasted it, touched it, smelled it, like whatever. All the things, right? All the senses have been engaged. And many people may feel satisfied to a degree in some of these sensual experiences, right? But the. What actually the flower is, these senses also cannot tell you because they're again partial. Because you see, when you see the world and you see you open your eyes. When you wake up, the light is coming in, the sound is coming in. Touch, feel. All five senses are activated, right? Is it not right now?

Right?

And still you don't know what it is.

How do you ever know anything? It's just.

You just decided that what is knowing? No, no, no, no.

Yeah.

You only are the one who decides. And you're the one. For example, let's say you go into the dream tonight. Tonight you're sleeping, you go to sleep, you start a dream. A lot of things happen. You eat many, you know, many, many mangoes and stuff, and you're thinking about mangoes and suddenly you wake up, right? The knowledge that the entire universe that just disappeared and that you were about to eat a mango and other people were there and you were just having such a great time, all of that has disappeared, right? But the knowledge of what it is or was now, at this point in time, after you woke up, that knowledge of what it is and was, is it present or not present?

The memory of it is.

No, no. The knowledge of what it was. If your memory means you'll say, oh, I was eating mango. What happened to the mango? Can I find it? You'll go searching for the mango, right? Because the memory is there. But you know it's not a real thing, right?

No. Then the knowledge of it, you can't know it anymore. It's not there.

No, no, no. Listen to what I'm saying. The knowledge that it was not real, that the mango never existed, you were never there, those people were never there, nothing was there. And you were just experiencing a dream which. Which you did not know a moment ago, when you were actually eating that mango in the dream, that knowledge did not exist there, that it's a dream, it's not happening. But when you woke up, suddenly you realized that it was never happening. But that knowledge is there with you. You know that nobody has died and you were not there actually, and mango was not there and the world was not there and nothing evolved and nothing happened. You know this when you wake up, right? That's why you say it was just a memory, it's not real. Because the knowledge that it was not real arises when you wake up. You know it's a dream, right?

I can't help but picture you walking around licking flowers. At this point, my mind stopped right there. Like Amit in a field of flowers, just licking each one. I'm so sorry. My mind goes blank whenever we talk, Ahmed. And I appreciate that about you. Like, it constantly goes blank because that what you're talking about the knowledge of knowing that something was just a dream. But then I think about applying that to this knowing that this is just a dream. And at that point my mind's like, blank, done, gone.

Yes, because when I say dream, it is dream. Like in the sense that there is a difference in time factor. You see, the words, the. Now, let's talk about actual time. We had earlier discussed time. You know, the actual time is the experience, the density and duration of an event, right? One feels that it's real because it's happening slowly and you're able to experience all parts of it. Like right now, it's not like a dream dream. Dreams are fast. They just go so quick and they have an ethereal quality to them. You know, they don't have such a dense quality. They don't have such a gross quality compared to the memory of the dream. You see, the memory of the dream is very, very ephemeral and very transient and very light and hazy. And, you know, it feels. We know that the dream happened in no time at all. There was no time factor for that entire time experience in the dream. The whole growing the mango tree and becoming a, you know, adult and all your friends together eating a mango. Every summer when you came back home, all those years went by, right? But when you woke up, it was hardly two minutes because you just. Your alarm had just gone off and you were so pissed off, and then you went back to sleep for two minutes. So you see, the time is what you are experiencing inside the conscious state, either a dream or a waking state or any other state, right? You might have an altered state and you might have a different experience, but you're going to very much come back to another experience and say, oh, that was an experience. And you know that that was an experience when you come out of it. So the knowledge that the experience arised but you didn't know it is the basic ignorance needed for that particular universe to exist as that universe. The dream will stop if you say everything is a dream in the dream itself, right? That's called waking up. Suddenly there is a somebody shaking you outside, and you're suddenly a dream. It's like a phone starts to ring and you're like, what? Wait, what? And suddenly you wake up and you're actually answering the phone which is ringing next to you, and you're like, shit, the damn phone. And the whole dream suddenly had that merger, and this just quickly dissipates and there's no confusion left. You know, that that was a dream. And the whole thing intervened and you know, it happened, right?

Yes.

So you have to see what is going on, the whole thing. These worlds that appear and disappear, appear and disappear. Where is the reality to it, the time factor itself that you experience so much inside of it? You go and ask somebody inside a dream, hey, how old are you? And where. What planet is this? And how old is this planet? They'll say it's four and a half billion years old. They'll take you to the, you know, Einstein and they'll take you to the museums and they'll take you to whoever you want. You can go and talk to all the people. They will tell you details. If you say, no, no, no, this is a dream, they will beat you with a stick, you know, so they think it's real, but who is that they in the dream.

Then? Right? They don't have. They only exist in the dream. Once you wake up, they're gone.

So whose dream? At that point, whose dream is it? You see? Yeah, whose dream is it? Let's answer that question. You see, if Jacob, not Jacob, if Brandon is in the dream, a character. Okay, actually, let's make it simple. Brandon is the one who went to sleep. And you're dreaming of yourself as Jacob the character. And you meet Sarah and Ahmed and everybody else. You meet Tanay also. And now Jacob is doing all these things and Jacob realizes that this is a dream and he goes and tells Sarah. And now, first of all, we just discussed Sarah is going to beat you with the stick because she's like, you're crazy. I have issues. Go away. I think things to do. Don't bother me, right, with your lunacy because I have like, you know, work to finish. Right? And she's got her own things to deal with. What are you talking about? Telling her like it's a dream. Right, Jacob? So now what happens? Now Jacob is like, the whole thing is a problem. I don't know what's going on. What's the point in talking to anybody? These are all like dream people right? Now. Question for you. Whose dream is it? Wow.

At this point, it's Jacob's dream. He's still, he's still a dream character.

It's my dream, not his dream. Right, exactly. So can Jacob know whose dream it is? No, no, because he is not there right now. In that dimension of time and space, the dreamer does not exist there. Right? The dreamer does not exist inside the dream. The dream is the arisal of the dreamer. The dreamer is the source. So the what appears cannot access the Dreamer from within the manifestation. Right, because the manifestation arose from the source. So if you say Jacob has to access the manifestation, the only thing that's possible there is Jacob has to disappear. There's no other way for Jacob to access the beyond because he. If he is present, he is in the now. He's in the manifestation. The unmanifest, or the dreamer is beyond the dream. Right? Beyond means beyond space and time. You cannot access it by going back in time or going to a particular place in this particular manifestation, because this is beyond. The dream comes from beyond. Right? Beyond what is, what is visible, what is there. Are you following?

Yes.

Because time and space arises within consciousness of that particular state of consciousness. Which is why when you. When that state of consciousness ends and you don't have consciousness for a while, like you're sleeping and then you regain consciousness, so to speak. Like when you wake up or have another dream, you're not confused about the different states of consciousness. You're not saying, wait, what happened to all my mangoes? When you wake up, right? You're not confused. Each state and each set of consciousness in the entire time and space is completely isolated from each other. Even if there is some memory that leaks through. And you know that because it was in a different consciousness, it's not applicable to this consciousness. This. Right. Like dreams. Yesterday was not applicable now. But you do tell yourself that yesterday, like the actual yesterday or whatever, like it happened yesterday. That is applicable. You. You say that to yourself here. You say that timeline is the same timeline, but just now if you realize that all time is imagined. Now if you see what's actually going on, where is the question of time? What is time now? If you. If you think about it, it's the dream.

Like the. The dreamer is the whole thing. What isn't he?

Yes.

He's not. He's the whole. He's the whole experience.

He's the confusion.

He's the.

He's.

Sarah, he's the whole thing. What isn't the dreamer.

Correct. So once the. Jake. Once Jacob has understood that. Now what?

There's nothing else to do.

I don't know.

I'm just. You can. Whatever he wants to do. Freak out.

Okay?

He's. He's not doing anything.

Let us all right now furthering further on that. Okay? Whatever experiences you have now. The mango you're eating in the dream, the Jacob is eating a mango. He's enjoying. You're saying that he can do anything now? He's doing whatever he wants. La la la. He's having great Time he's, he knows that it's a dream, right? So he's eating this dream mango and the real knowledge that it is a dream, the real knowledge, not the artificial knowledge. Because. Because you see, the real knowledge is there when you have woken up and that you know that that dream is not real and it is not there. You don't care two wits about it at that point. Like even literally you don't care, okay? Because it's gone. It's like, has no value at all. 0. Not a dream, not real, right? No, not worth talking about. It's a dream. So that knowledge inside the dream, when you say I can do whatever I want. Yes. You go and eat a mango. What is the experience of such a mango when you. That knowledge where everything is not real, including yourself and the experience that you're having of eating that mango and anything at all, any and all experiences, any sense action, sensory movement inside the dream. Once you know it's a dream, can it produce any action, can it produce any experience? What does it mean to know that it is a dream versus not to know it's a dream? Like the true knowledge of this. What will happen to Jacob when he, when he eats a mango and when he knows that this is a dream? You see, is there any difference between Jacob and Brandon when Jacob knows true knowing that it is a dream, in other words, Jacob has an individual set of ideas that determine his experience based on his conditioning are no longer there. Then what is the experience, experience of Jacob?

I don't know. This is hard to follow.

See, let me say again. 10 people eat a mango, they all have different experiences of it, right? They'll say, one is. One says sweet, one says not that great, one says yummy, one says, what is this weird fruit? Right? There's 10 different experiences because they all ate a portion of the mango. Okay, so where is the actual experience of the mango?

The mango itself?

How can it be?

It's an inert, I know, in the perceivers, people tasting it.

Correct. So how come they have different, different perceiving of the same mango?

Because they're different people.

The mango is the same thing. You're eating 10 parts of the same mango, okay? It's an inner matter. Mango, Mango has, is only inert. It's only got objects. Like, it's only, you know, cells and atoms. It has no like sentience or consciousness inside it. It's not, it's not a. It's not a. It's a dead matter, right? You've taken it off the tree, right? It's dead. So now 10 people, conscious people, are eating it and they're experiencing it and explaining their experience of the mango. And they say 10 different things. We have already established that. Therefore the experience of the mango cannot be in the mango. Because if it truly was in the mango, everybody would experience the same thing. Therefore it is not there. Now if it is not in the mango, it is in the people. Each person is creating their own experience. How is it happening? How come it's different? Because my experience of anything depends on my past experience. If I've never heard of the ghost of anything called a ghost, the darkness doesn't bother me. I just walk there and I just try to turn on the light. Somebody who thinks about ghosts will not even go there. They'll be like sitting there saying, I'm not going there, you see? So the experience of the same inner thing called darkness produces completely different experiences in two people. So where is the experience coming from is the question.

Right. So each of the people, because of their. Their past experiences, their own, Their own, they're perceiving it. I don't know because like I get lost when you talk about others, because there's supposedly not others, there's only one person.

No, no. That's what. So that's why you think in terms of yourself only, right? How do you. Why is it that you have a different experience of the. Of a mango each time you eat it?

Tastes different or the.

I don't know. How do you know that it tastes different? Right? Because when you first, if you eat the mango the first time, it doesn't taste different because it's the first time you're eating it. There's nothing to compare it to. So you don't know what to expect. And you have a certain experience. The next time you eat a mango, you say it tasted different. How do you know that? Because you remembered the previous mango and you're comparing it, right?

Yes.

So the person who ate the mango the first time and the person who ate the hundred thousandth mango, what is the difference in their experience of the mango? Is there any qualitative difference? One brings nothing to the table, the other brings their apparent expertise. 100,000 mangoes, they know what a mango is. What is the big deal in this mango, right? Let's have a seat. Let's have a taste. I will tell you what the mango is versus the other person has no previous experience of it. He's just going to taste the mango, he's going to eat it, he's going to taste it. It's going to be everything that it is without any ideas in the middle versus the other person. I don't know about this mango. I've had better mangoes. This mango, you know, by my professional experience, is probably in the 7.5 rating, right?

Those only.

Those things only.

Yeah, but those things only matter if you insist that they matter.

That is what I'm trying to say. The whole thing is whether you bring out your nonsense knowledge and screw with the experience or don't. Right? The experience is the experience. But if you bring the past into it, you're going to mix it up into the nonsense that past is, which is not there, imagined. So you're bringing imagined crap into the actual experience of what is there. Right? In other words, how can 10 people have different experience of the same mango? The answer is only one thing, which is they all have different past experiences, which muddies the waters. If all of them didn't have that, then their experience of it, even if they express it differently, would be uncolored by anything else. It would just be whatever happened in the moment. And that has nothing to do with the mango or themselves or anything. It's totality. I happened to be sitting here and it was an uncomfortable chair and this happened. It was cold. Everything, everything together. There is an experience without any naming it, without any saying this is why it is or that is why it is, or it could be this way or I know what it is or any of that. There is an experience inherent at all times running, right? Because the dream is unfolding, it is happening. Whether you want it or not, something will happen, right? So there is an actual inherent experience in everything. But the mind brings in all the past and mixes it up with what is perceived and it says it is this and it is that. And it's constantly classifying, right? It's. It's constantly doing its thing, which is comparing and classifying and you know, comparing again.

Yes, this is good. This is bad.

This is. Yeah. First of all, this is a mango. This is a flower, right? That name and form. What is the use of calling it a flower, by the way? Can I, can you tell me? Is there any use?

It's only, only so I can talk to someone else about it, right?

Only to talk to somebody else. So now if you want to so called wake up, you want to get the experience of the ending of the dream, the waking up process and all that stuff that we've been talking about in eye realization and awakening and all that stuff. Very simple question. Is there any point in Talking to anybody else about it.

No. You're just gonna. Yeah.

You will perpetuate. Yes, you will perpetuate the illusion only. Because there is no one there. Now, finally, I want to say, even after you finish eating the mango and the apple and the flowers and everything you've done all five senses, and you still don't know what it is because the inherent. What has happened here, you see, even those five senses have been interpreted on the background of your own past experiences. And the me, I'm the one who's experiencing this. I ate this mango. My experience, that whole process is happening. Therefore, the knowledge is partial. Why? Because I've included my own ignorance into it. You see, I am eating it. Even if I say I'm eating it for the first time, I am still the one eating it. And who is that eye? Who is that eye that Jacob imagines is eating the mango Once he realizes that he is the whole dream, you see, the one who is eating it and one who is experiencing it and saying, oh, this is the original experience or is not the original experience? That itself is an illusion. No.

Yes.

So you have to see very clearly the actual experience of a dream is actually sleeping because Brandon is asleep in his bed, very comfortably asleep. He has no care in the world. And yet Jacob is running around trying to wake up and trying to eat mangoes and trying to figure it all out. Whereas the actual experience of all the characters in there is nothing. There's no experience. It's imagined. And if you have to go deeper, you will realize that these characters all come from the subconscious. And in fact, the subconscious is at rest. It's resting. And hence the dream arose. So when Shiva went to sleep, Parvati began to dance. You see, when intelligence went to sleep, the illusion began to dance. And in the lack of that intelligent light, what appeared appeared to be real. But when the light turned on, what was seen was nothing but the absence of light and was imagined. Oh, it was actually just a shadow. The ghost was actually not real. And the experience of the ghost vanished when that light turned on. Or the belief arose that, oh, ghosts are not real. I was mistaken. That knowledge which arose within this existing experience removed the experience of the false knowledge of the ghost which was there. It was producing experience like a mango, because even though it was not there, it was producing an experience. This emptiness has to be seen clearly. How can something which is not there produce an experience? And to whom? Who is the one who's experiencing it? How can anybody experience something that is not there? Then in that case, who is the one experiencing it?

They're all the same thing. The one experiencing it, the experience, all of it is the same thing.

Therefore, when you say same thing, if you experience anything in particular, can that be the same thing? In other words, the experience, the actual experience and the false experience, There are two things, right? Like the actual experience of a ghost is what? The actual experience, the actual experience of a ghost is nothing. There's no experience. It doesn't exist. It cannot give you any experience. The actual experience, the original experience of a ghost, the actual experience is not. There's no experience because the ghost is not there. There's no. There's nothing called ghost. It's imagined. So whatever experience you're having, that's not the real experience, because the real experience is not there. It's not possible to have any experience of a ghost because ghost is not real. Are you following me?

Yeah.

So any experience that you're having. Yeah, any experience you're having of a ghost right now. But ghosts are real. But I'm scared and all that stuff. And even if you tell the child that, hey, I understand you're scared, don't worry, ghost will not get you. I will check every day. You might say that. And their experience may change, may not change. Whatever the fact may be, whatever experience they are having of anything related to the concept of ghost is not real. It cannot be termed as real. Because the ghost is actually not there. There's nothing called ghost, even if they believe in it. So even if you, you know, pacify them or you tell them, don't worry, I will protect you from ghosts. It's just nonsense. Because the ghost is not actually present. And the real experience is of no experience. Because it's not there. It's never there. It was never there, ever. So something that was never, ever there can never have produced any experience you see. Which is why when you wake up from even a very, you know, active dream, you feel rested, right? Because the actual experience was of sleeping, right?

You weren't actually running around doing all that, right?

You're not actually running around doing anything. So if you're not actually running around doing anything, then the experience of running around and doing anything is obviously like that of a ghost that you're imagining. Because it's not actually happening, right? Are you following?

Yes.

So now, in the dream situation, what is the actual experience of Jacob once he realizes the truth? True realization, not just intellectual understanding in words, because that is again, within the consciousness of, you know, within consciousness and therefore restricted to that knowledge. But the True knowledge, which is not knowledge, but light. Once he realizes his oneness with the dream, then let's. No. No dream. See who wakes up? You see, he cannot.

No.

Once Jacob realizes that he is the dream, there is nobody to wake up. Jacob no longer feels that this is a dream, you see, because the very concept of a dream is based on the past experience of something. So the very idea of a dream or not a dream, waking or not waking, conscious or not conscious, all of these are just ideas, you see?

Yes.

Yeah. But what is the actual experience? This has to be found out because the actual experience of something that doesn't exist is not there. So as long as one is still able to or is appearing to have sensual experiences, it is a suspect, you see, One has to find the inherent experience, which is no conflict, no question, no nothing. That nothingness is fullness where there is not a single iota of doubt, no thoughts about. See, thought arises only when you don't know. Right. If you already know everything, what thought can arise, or if you don't have any questions or any desires to know anything, will any thought arise. I see a flower. All right? I have no interest in it, for example, right. So I'm walking through. Through a market. So many things are there. I'm not stopping to see everything. Simply I'm walking. Everything is there in awareness, but is not focused on it, you know?

Yes. So that's why this is what you're saying about the at. This goes back to what you're saying about. You don't have to talk to people about it or ask, like, what is there to say?

You have to. Yes. Who are you talking to? So you have to realize yourself. That's all I said. Previous experiences. Question mark, Tanay, what is your thoughts?

You were asking.

No, right.

Beforehand, like, what exactly does it mean when 10 different people tell, you know, 10 different stories of the same language?

I was telling.

Maybe it was due to the previous experience.

Absolutely. That's right. That's what we said. Yes. So that's the whole situation we are having. People get attached to experiences. They think those experiences happen to them, you know? But if that experience had not happened to them, they wouldn't be that. So are you the experience or is the experience here or. Neither. Right. It's just an experience, not my experience. It's just a dream, just a waking state. It's just consciousness. It's just me being myself. And in my consciousness, things arise and they disappear. What about it?

It's interesting that the deeper you get into this, the Less you. The less questions you have, the less you even want to talk about it. All of that, just like you said, it is a more. It's giving more. Giving more to the illusion. So you're like, oh, well, you start to try one, investigate it.

What is this?

Where's that coming from? You're missing.

You're missing the point.

You're. You're now giving credence to the illusion. More you look at it.

Absolutely.

The less, the less there is to discuss.

Okay? Yes. That's why the final answer and the final truth is only found in silence. And that silence is not of speaking. You see, action and words and whatever movement is happening is happening. Even now, it's happening, and it's not a doing. You see, when you realize that those actions and those words and everything that's happening, activity is not actually doing, is happening. Once you realize it's happening, then what is the. There is only silence, right? Because let it happen. When you're walking on the street, buses attack, about to run you over, you jump out, the body jumps out of the way. You're not the one doing it right. It happened there. You ate something, your body digested it. It happened. You're not doing it. You're breathing right now. Can you stop breathing? No, you'll not be able to control it. Can you sit down, not move, not do anything? How long you'll sit, Your body will get up and do something.

Yeah, it will.

It will not be possible. You see, it's not possible. The illusion of control is very strong. But if you realize that even this talk is just happening, then there is only silence. All the time. Silence is there. Talking has nothing to do with that silence. You see that silence is the very ground because you will not be able to cognize anything unless there is the background of silence. Even the tiniest of sounds and movement can be cognized because the background does not move. You see? Pure scene. It sees everything. And in. In that seeing, everything appears. And what appears is the movement. Anything that moves appears there. If it doesn't move, it cannot be cognized because there is no change in it. And it's part of the unchanging background, you see? So what? All is change. Everything has changed because the background is unchanging. That change is there. So when something is always changing, what is the value in that? There's no point in going after something that's always changing. It's just changing. So if you want something that's truly there, something that is real, obviously you need to Find something. And the only thing that is the unchanging background of everything else. And that background is the nothingness or the emptiness or whatever they call it. But it is in fact full. It is full of potential. It is full of everything that you might ever manifest. And what you might manifest is pure imagination. Everything appears in consciousness.

This is that whole non dual thing. Because the static nature is what allows. Because it doesn't move and it's quiet. It is what the other stuff that does move, the other movement is noticed.

The light itself. Yes, yes.

Yeah.

No, no, you can have a light. No, no, let's be clear. Even without movement, you have intelligence. You have the light. The light does not need anything. The light is unaware of anything to be seen because it is the cause for seeing. The eye cannot see itself. And I doesn't care. Because seeing is a property of light. It is not dependent upon it. It is so. If something is there to be seen, it is seen. If there is nothing to be seen, that is also known. But the light is required and is there at all times. It is completely independent of anything to be seen. Be seen or not seen. So whether or not there is a dream or waking or asleep or whatever, I am still there. I'm the one who says I slept. I dreamt, I woke up. So all there is is the light and the absence of light in all places. You call it as darkness. But that concept is only in the absence of. In presence of the very concept of light. So all there is is God. All there is is divinity. All there is is light. Because other than light, one would never know anything.

I'm shaking. I don't really have anything to say about it.

So one has to remain in this awareness, this current. You see there is what is there right now. If you just see in the inside, it's just nothing. Flat, right? Neutral, absolutely neutral state. If I get excited or happy or joyful or sad or unhappy, there is a change from this state. You know, a perceptual change. But if you keep on seeing that change also, you will be back in the same state of seeing. Because seeing is flavorless. Seeing is neutral. Seeing is the actual seeing of anything else. Even if there is pain or not pain or joy, there is a seeing of it and then there is the going with it. The going with it is the illusion part where the mind says, oh, I am having fun or I am having pain. But to see clearly that that is the situation, what we are witnessing. Everything there's an experience in that. Pure witnessing. It is an Experience of peace and joy and no conflict at all. It doesn't have any external dependencies that seem. It is always there. It is the source itself. So I'm always comfortable in that source. Why would one want to leave the shade and go into the scorching hot sun of nonsense when there is cool shade where one can witness everything?

Once you. Once you know. Yeah, Once you know that, that's. I think that's. You can't go back. How would you want to? Why would you want to settle once you know?

That means once the knowledge of the situation becomes clear to Jacob. Jacob does not exist as the one that wants to go everywhere. Because the knowledge will keep him where he is. Because there is nothing to be gained by running around.

Oh, I see.

See, because you're not Jacob, you see, you're thinking you're Jacob, and therefore I will do this and I will do that. But this knowledge will remove that identification, and then this knowledge will also disappear. Because all knowledge requires a knowledge knower, you see, I know. Jacob says, I know, but that's an illusory statement, right? That I. That Jacob is. You don't want that I. Right. So to see very clearly the situation and what is consciousness has to be seen by itself. Consciousness itself has to see it. If you see it, then what happens? It is illusion created because the knower is created. The seer is created there, seer, seen and seeing. All three things are there. Whereas in fact, if you keep on seeing, the seer becomes the seen. You will see Jacob seeing. Therefore, Jacob is itself an object, therefore not an actual thing in the sense that it's not real. It's real in the sense it's changing. It's just an idea. It's, you know, part of consciousness. Whereas where did consciousness come from? Consciousness came, consciousness disappeared. It happens all the time. You go to sleep, consciousness disappears, and again it appears, disappears, appears, disappears. You suddenly have an accident, you fall, you faint, you swoon, it disappears. Then you come back and say, shit. I was like, whoa. That was, you know. So you were there. You just didn't have anything to experience.

I've been. I've been noticing lately that sometimes thoughts aren't always primary. So sometimes I look at something and where I would have the thought it's still there. But then I can. I don't know how to explain. I. It's not all of my attention anymore. Still. It doesn't seem like it matters a little bit. And it's. It's just a little bit, but I feel a little bit of space in between. I don't feel as identified with it. They seem to just kind of. They come and go a little bit more instead of getting stuck and spinning around and being affected. So it's like, okay, it's just happening.

That's right. That is what it is. So when we remember three months ago, whatever I said, you should meditate, you did for some time.

Yes, I did.

It was the whole process of slowing down.

Yeah, I need to do that again.

It can benefit you, but you don't have to do it in any one particular time or anything like that. You should have a practice, if you can, in the morning. But again, it's about being aware. You see who's going to meditate. That's the thing. Thing. Once you find out, you see who will meditate.

Do you still meditate or do you meditate regularly? Do you ever practice?

Absolutely not. The problem is, if you. If you feel you have to meditate, who is that person who should meditate?

But if you just meditate because you.

Enjoy just fine, then it's a happening. Right. You're not. There's no intention there. It will happen.

Okay.

Intention cannot remain, you see? Whose intention is there? Intention can only be of an individual, you see, the totality has no intention. The dream has got no particular outcome.

When you talk about density between like the dream state and the wicked state I keep hearing people talk about, it's being. Reality is dense. What does that mean?

No, it. It is. They say that reality is dense, but it's not really. Right. Density is an experience. For example, you know, right now everything feels real. Real because it's persistent. This reality is persistent.

Yes.

So that feeling of persistence is what we're discussing. The grossness of that feeling. When you imagine something in your mind right now, you close your eyes. You may imagine a classroom and you might imagine teachers there, but that. That experience of the classroom, even though it's maybe vivid in your mind, it's very, very ephemeral and very, very not gross. Like this one. You understand the difference, right? But in your mind's eye. Yeah, but it's being projected by the same mind.

Yes.

Your mind is the one showing you this image where your everything is very gross and real and dense and persistent. And if you close your eyes and imagine something, your same mind will show. Or even if you daydream, you might be seeing the open eyes, you might be seeing the persistent world, but suddenly your mind is in fact somewhere else and you're imagining you're somewhere talking to somebody. That experience is happening in a room where you're sitting on a chair. I mean, you may not be focused on all of those elements, but if you do move to that object, you will see it is there and all of it will start revealing itself in that imagination. You can walk outside and have a conversation with somebody. It'll continue until you get interrupted or you realize, oh shit, I better get back to work. So you see, that whole process is not persistent. It's just so ephemeral that you're not bothered when it disappears. You know, you created it right there. See, Creation. Creation is imagination.

Creation is imagination.

That is why every single religion will have a notion of we are all living God's dream.

That comes up.

God is imagining it, huh?

Yes. Yeah, I was gonna say that comes up a lot about the dream. Everyone's dream that God's dreaming wakes up.

But we don't want to pay attention, you know? Whereas my only point is very simple. Every day you dream. Why don't you see that. This teaching is the simplest in the world? Pay attention to your own experience. This world doesn't stay. It disappears in a few hours, so called hours. Then another world appears. You may have experience of many years and all going by in that you might meet many people. The food and money you have in this universe is not available there. There. You might be poor, you might be rich, you might come back to this world saying, damn, I wish I had the money I just experienced. But you know, it's not real. Yet repeatedly, you come back to this one thinking it is real. Whereas there is no cause for it. You see, there is only you thinking it's real. There is no cause. Just like in any other dream situation. There is no proof. I mean, there is absolutely no difference. The world and the universe and nature shows you every single day that what you're experiencing is ephemeral and disappears. And it's a creation that you create. It is telling you this every single night. But we don't want to pay attention to it. We want to pay attention to the object. We want to pay attention to Jacob. We want Jacob to be the one who wakes everybody else up. Jacob to be the one that will tell everybody that this is the truth. Jacob is very important to the one that's dreaming. But that's the very illusion. It's merely a question of wrong identification, misidentification.

A bit of a habit, yes. Just been doing that for so long. Well, no, that doesn't matter. Whose habit is it?

Exactly. So the actual thing is instant because time is not real. We discussed it. So to say habit brings in the past and brings in the individual whose habit it is. So to see that you're outside time and space right now, that's the thing. So that's why I said the word now is very confusing. You should never use the word because the word now is only in comparison with not now, which is past and future, which we both know don't exist. Right. Past doesn't exist. It's imagined. Future obviously doesn't never happen. So if you compare two imaginary things and you create a third imaginary thing which is the opposite of those two things called the now, and you're trying to stay in this imaginary thing called the now, in what way will that help you.

Does? Well, yeah, it doesn't.

Doesn't. Because one is imagining time to be real. If you imagine time to be real, then you are in consciousness. And you can never get out of consciousness from within consciousness, because you are what is. So that whole situation is screwed up, you see, Jacob can never get out of it. Let's make that clear. And the point is, he doesn't have to, because I'm not. You're not Jacob, I'm not Amit. Right? That's the simple thing. So that's the end. What else? Now.

They can start worrying about it and enjoy.

There is absolutely nothing you can do.

Yeah. It's all about the actual experience, not. Not all the thought about the experience.

Whenever thought arises, you have to see that it is the shadow which is blocking the illuminating factor. Because first of all, you realized you have a thought. But second, before you realized you were thinking you had been lost to the thought, you became the thought. Then you say, oh shit, I was thinking. How did you know that? Because you became the thought. That is why when you finally even eat the mango into everything, you still don't know what it is. Because the final knowledge of something is inherent. It arises from within, not from anywhere else, because those objects are imagined. So to try to get the knowledge of it from the senses is foolhardy. It will never come. One has to relinquish the knowledge that generate. That was generated by the senses. These are. This knowledge is false knowledge. Once you let go of that knowledge, then the inherent experience will arise, which is that once Jacob realizes this, everything is a dream, effectively. He can go back to sleep. You understand?

Yes.

He can go back to sleep. He can go back to being Brandon. No, no, he can. He doesn't have to be. He cannot be. He is not. You see? He can go back to Being Brandon in the dream because he's asleep.

So who really wakes up? He doesn't wake up at all.

Nobody has ever woken up because nobody has ever gone to sleep. And all the very idea of the individual waking up and the individual going to sleep is the very illusion we're discussing. There is only consciousness. And all of it is happening within consciousness. And consciousness is imagining itself to be Jacob and imagining itself to be Brandon and Sarah and Amit. And it is having a play of consciousness. This entire thing is simply a play of consciousness. And you can call it consciousness. That's all. There's no need to say play of consciousness, because consciousness is the play of consciousness. You can call it consciousness. So consciousness arises, consciousness disappears, dreams come, dreams go, waking state arises, waking state goes. The entire thing is one. There is no question of who is seeing it and all. You understand?

Yes, I get it. I get think. I get it. Well, who gets it? It makes sense. It rings.

You don't have to think about it. The only thing now to be done on this is to not think about it. Let it go entirely. Forget about everything that I just said. You just have to go and meditate. Literally, just meditate. Let the understanding arise because you are not the doer. If you try to think about it, you will create concepts. Right now. Right now. If you think about everything that I said, you will create all kinds of concepts. It is like this, it is like that. Oh, I get it. I got it. The minute you say I got it, it's a illusion. So there's nothing to get. Nobody can get anything. That getter itself is the problem. So avoid getting it. Just listen. Nothing to get. You understand? Listen without listening, see without seeing. This is what it means. Means what? Just be aware. Just be. Just listen. Just see. Don't really see. Do you understand? Go through the market, you're not seeing anything. You're just there seeing everything and nothing in particular. That's what it is. That is the state of meditation. It's very relaxed. It's now. It is always. You understand?

I mean, yeah, that's a hard thing to answer, but yes, I understand.

When Jacob stops trying to do things, he becomes the dream, right?

Yes, he falls into it.

That's what it is. That is called meditation. So when Jacob stops agitating, that stillness makes him part of the dream as it is actually unfolding, rather than him causing ripples with reacting to everything and then feeling that those ripples are relevant and then going with the ripples and having the experience of those ripples versus simply Being the whole ocean and the inherent experience of Brandon being asleep and being in peaceful bliss, the actual experience of that will arise through Jacob. Because Jacob is Brandon, even though he doesn't know it and doesn't have to know it. Because knowledge is only ephemeral and false. So that knowing is useless. Why not just be it? You understand?

Yes. I don't have anything else to say. It's perfect.

That's it. Thank you for. There's nothing.

Starting off my morning with a great. I want to meditate now. So, like, that was a great. That was a great way to start off today. Thank you.

No problem. Next time we should record it. It's not audio session. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I forgot to record it. Yeah. And we should maybe move to Zoom, you know, until we fix this software. It's a little buggy, so we're actually hoping to do a pretty major upgrade by the end of the month to make it easier. But yeah, we should record it. And plus it should auto record. Actually, no, you know what? I can get the files from the back end, so even I didn't though. I didn't record it. We'll get the file. Okay. The recordings. Yeah.

Samita, I'm gonna be working on the. Yes. I'm gonna cut out some stuff.

Just cut out. Cut out all the stuff that's rubbish. Just only the things you feel are important. You know, those we'll put into the podcast. Okay, Cool. Well, that was fun. I don't know where Sarah dropped off, but nice to hear from her as well. She's been doing some great work on the marketing and would love for you also, Brandon, to give it a shot. You know, like use Canva. There's a tool called Canva. That's what she's been using. It makes life really simple. It gives you all the simple editing features you need to create those images. So if you want to try your hand at that art or any other thing that you want to do, chat with her. She's doing some stuff there. She's got some routine of how she does it. Yeah, and you can also do it. I mean, I realization we need lots of the artwork and, you know, poems and this and that. So just feel free to express. I mean, you're. You're a mod on. On it now. I will also make you an editor on irealization.com so that you can edit those articles or add new ones or whatever you want to do.

Great. I'm looking forward to all these ways to create. I have a lot of ideas.

Yeah, I'D love to have you do stuff. By the way, Tana is my cousin. He's on the call, and he's actually recently started working within the awake ecosystem. Hey, Brandon.

Hey. How's it going? And we're at the last one.

Yeah, I was there at the last.

Session as well.

Since I. We actually, you know, subjected this to him, you know. So. Tell us your thoughts. Give us a little.

Yeah, like, it's good. I was. I followed you guys still. We were talking about mangoes.

Hey, Brandon. There's a lot of noise.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Hold on. Yeah, go ahead. One more time. Yeah, so I was.

I was following you guys. He'll be talking about mangoes and, you know, different perceptions and all. Then I lost a train of thought somewhere. When we're talking about Shiva and Parvati, when, you know, intelligence, sleep, solution, then that thing totally went over my head. Then we. Then when we circle back to, you know, like, how exactly like, so if we take out past experiences from everything, that's what we have to do. And then the only reason we talk about things, I mean, the only reason we kind of associate things with their property, like flower. And all we were talking is because you want to talk to other people about the things. So maybe if, you know, silence sort of optimal in these things. Things and bits and pieces here and there didn't make a lot of sense to me. Like, from next time I start making notes, I think that will be better.

Yeah, it will be.

It will be easier for me to, you know, get back to you on what are the things that understand and what are the things I don't understand.

Such an earnest answer. Thank you for that. So Tana is kind of a bit of a genius, by the way. You should know, Brandon. So I'm excited for him to see where he ends up. Okay.

He's like, what? It must run in the family.

I don't know about any of those things, but my brother is also a bit of a genius. The other cousin, Manshu, they're all. They're all geniuses. Yes, it does run in the family. Only I'm not a genius because everybody is waiting for something to happen.

Okay, I'm writing this down somewhere.

All of your. Are all. Is everyone else. All your siblings, are they into this kind of stuff too? Are you the only one?

Well, you know, I've become very fortunate in my. This lifetime. My brother has become a pretty major, you know, almost like he's. He's teaching now. You know, he's done a lot of vipassanas and he's. He's in the inside side in advait. He's actually training people now with like this, you know, Vedic stuff and all that. So pretty interesting there. And then my parents are into it as well. Major meditation, vipassana and all that. And then my fiance slash wife, she's. We have the same guru, you know, and. Yeah.

Would you say you were born into this? Like, did you already have like your family kind of was lined up for this kind of.

Not at all. 100%, no. I grew up in an exactly opposite type of environment where I did not, you know, believe or know about any of this. So it all just happened.

That's how I feel too. It just happened.

Everything just happened.

I can go back and tell you, oh, well, maybe it started here, but the further I do that, then I'm like, well, actually I only saw this because of that. You can just keep going back forever.

You can go all the way back to your birth and then you can go all the way back to your parents birth and all the way back to the big bang of the universe. And it's predestination, you see, that is why I tell people there is no free will. And if you realize that all worries end immediately.

But isn't there. There is free will, but there is no.

There is no free will. There is only the illusion of free will. You do not have a choice because Jacob never had a choice in the matter. Jacob is not real. The whole dream is unfolding as a single totality, like a movie playing and no individual character there had any choice in it. It was all scripted. You.

Yeah, because I guess hard. I always wonder if the. When you say that, that makes sense. I always felt like whenever people talk to me about that, I'm like, whoa. I feel like you're taking. When you, when you pull it out and you take it into time, now you're saying, oh, well, you pulled it out and you've diagrammed the situation. Oh, this happened now. You could have chose here, here.

But first of all, who is that you. That. Who is that? You see, the minute we talk about that I. And. And choice, you bring that in. You're. You're talking already illusion, you see?

Yeah.

So you will never get this. This point will never be. See, very, very key. This is called Gyan yoga. Okay? Gyan yoga means the knowledge path. Okay. There are many yogas. There is the physical Hata yoga and all these things, okay? The. The knowledge. The Gyan yoga, which is the path that we are Discussing is very, very, very rarefied, you see, because it is the very keenest of intellects. Intellect is not intelligence. Intellect is the past. It is based on concepts. But the keenest of intelligence or intellect will realize its limitation, that the intellect will never be able to grapple with intelligence. Because intellect is an effect of intelligence. It is the shadow effect, is the thing which knowledge is created based on intelligence. And it limits intelligence to that knowledge. You understand? Very keen intellect is needed to realize the limit of intellect. Very keen mind is needed to realize the limit of the mind. The very keen understanding is needed that the understanding can only happen and no individual can do that understanding. You see, the only keenest person will understand that the person that I am is itself a thought. The I is itself a thought. The me is itself a thought. Everything is just a thought. Therefore, there is no me, only a very little. Few people will realize that the mind is limitation and will realize the limit of their own mind. Then that mind will be dropped.

That's it right there. It's all the same. Yeah, you can't talk about it. Talk about it.

You're.

Yeah, I get it.

Okay. That's what it is. So it's very simple. All you have to do, it's mechanical process. But you have to believe that you are on this clarity. You have to understand this part intellectually and then just do it. It's a practical thing. That's why once you understand it, I said you go meditate for some time because it's very specific. You're specifically slowing down the process. It's a very clear understanding of what is happening. Otherwise, who is doing it. You see, whatever you do, you will never get to it. This process is revealing that nobody is doing it and you cannot do anything. That is all.

Yeah, it's a distraction trap.

It is a trap. The mind is a trap. It's a disease. It's a drug. But the good news is you will feel the quality of yourself emerge more and more and more as the thoughts recede or the clouds of knowledge recede and intelligence begins to emerge more and more and more. Because you will see, when you think, you will realize you're thinking right. And in that moment of realization, quickly, you will see that the quality of thinking is dull. You know, even if you're thinking of great things, it is not intelligence because it's limited to that thought. And you pay attention to it. It is a constriction of the whole openness, any thought, because it is limited to that thought. You're thinking. So the whole thing constricts because your focus is there, you see? Whereas there is an open quality to not having any thought and just seeing. Okay? It's a very clear thing that that is being. You will see it, you will experience it. There is no need to go anywhere. It's right here all the time.

So.

All right. Thanks, people. Talk to you soon.

Thank you.

See you soon.