iRealization - Season 01 Episode 04

How are things?

It's all right. I'm excited. Not excited, but I'm glad that the week is. The weekend is here. I need a break.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Rough week?

Yeah. This just. My job's been still crazy and it's just absorbing all of my bandwidth and I. I think because I'm working from home, I don't have a really good work life balance. I get off work from like at 6 and I'm still in the house and then I'm, you know, it just feels like all my days are blending in together.

There are two times when. When you realize there is something. Only one time actually when you are aware of that stuff, stuff that's happening. The only time you're aware of the stuff that's happening is because you're interested in it. Hi, everyone. Good morning.

Hey, good morning.

So did you find out, Tanay, what is from last time? What did you take away? I remember the question that we left you with.

The effort one.

What is effort?

What is effort? Like, the. The premise was the same, you know, like we feel tired and then. Then we are putting effort and then we might be not getting result. And the thing is, because all of this is not there and it's part of the partial knowledge. So what. How exactly do we define effort? This is. This is the question, right? So like I made an analogy where, you know, whenever you are working, whenever you have friction and all basic wealth create physics, whenever you have friction and all that, you have to do some work then. And you might. So you might be doing nothing, but still you have to do some work against the friction. Even if you're doing a lot of work or anything, you do nothing, but still there's something that you'd have to do. You have to spend a lot of energy to conquer that friction or something. So maybe for me, according from what I thought in a brief period and what I have written in my notes, that effort is to overcome the friction. So what exactly is the friction in this context? Maybe the thoughts that we develop and, you know, maybe the. Maybe the partial knowledge we use to develop the reality, like around us, we have some sort of friction to overcome this. I mean, like, you know, to keep this forward. So maybe we are putting a lot of effort in making sure that whatever thing we have created is sustained. So I think that's the effort.

Absolutely. Very good.

Correct. Oh, wow.

So see, what happens is the effort is. Cannot be there for something that doesn't exist, you know, in a dream. What is the effort? You want something, you're Running behind something you're working very, very hard. In the dream, what is the effort? You know, because as we discussed, everything is the past. All you can see is the past, is it not? Cannot see the future, obviously. Can you see the present? No, because it's now. So what can be seen, whatever is. You see the. The star, you know, in the sky, the star is, let's say, 10 light years away. You're seeing the past. You know, you're seeing the light that came from there 10 years ago. So you're seeing the past. Right. Same thing is true for anything you see. It's just not 10 years ago. It's a microsecond ago or a nanosecond ago or a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of a second ago. But you're seeing the past, Isn't it? So you're seeing the past. All there is is the past. So the past cannot be acted upon, nor can it do anything, and so on. So it doesn't exist. Therefore, where is the effort? You know, we had asked this question last time, and so the answer is, effort is in the mind that something has to be done. The very idea of doing something is effort. Other than that, where is the question of effort? The very idea that something is there and it is not the past and it must be changed brings about the idea of effort. Anybody wants to comment?

I am. I'm smiling just simply because when I had this is my experience, I was like, aha, what a relief. And I find it to be true even in the most. In fact, especially true in the very, very most challenging, supposedly challenging moments.

Yes.

That the watching, the backing off and just watching is. Is the only possible way to, quote, unquote, cope that makes any sense. It's not. It's not a matter of coping. It's a complete realization of what is going on. And in that sense, I'm able to understand things a little more clearly. I'm able to.

Yeah, one has to. See. When you say that I have to cope, or is something going on in life that's difficult or whatever, all those things, you know, who is it that is feeling that something is happening in a dream? What exactly is the situation? What do you mean by coping? That is the same question as effort. Both of those things are the same. So, Tanay, what do you think of the notion of effort now?

Still, still, still very foggy. But I. I think I'll have to give it more.

See, first of all, for effort, that requires work to be done. Yes, Work to Be done requires an input and an output, a transformation, is it not?

Yes.

It means you're taking what is there and you're changing it to something else. That means you're operating on what is there right now, and you want it to be something else. The desire to want something else instead of what is in front of you creates the idea that something has to be done, right? The idea of work, idea that I have to do something, that can only come from the idea of wanting something different than what is there, you know? Otherwise, where is the question of effort or anything to be done.

But again, what is there is not what is actually there. Now, that is what I feel. It is there.

No, no. What is there is what is not there. We discussed last time. What is not there but appears to be there is all of this, right? Like in a dream situation, what is there, what appears to be there is not the reality. Still, there is something there to say. There is nothing there. And I am the one saying there is nothing there is meaningless. No, the very little bit that is there is I am there, right? Without me, nothing can exist there. So those things don't exist without me. Now, to say those things, they do exist in the moment, as an appearance that I experience is true. But to say that they exist outside of me, or apart from me, or independent of me, or as on their own is the illusion.

Okay, yes, Makes sense now.

So what exists when nothing exists? That's the question we are answering. In other words, what is that nothing, is it not. Can nothing be really nothing? Nothing has to be something, right?

Yes, it is. It is the thing that is the. It seems to me it is the watching. It is the verb of nothing. It is the right. I mean, it's that. It's that unnamed thing.

It is the seeing. See, now you're naming it. It is the seeing, where we are saying it is the seeing. The seeing itself creates the scene. Right? Without seeing, can there be anything?

No, not at all.

Without perception, can there be anything seen?

No, not necessarily. No, but.

Not. Not necessarily, no. Without perception, you cannot perceive.

Okay, fair enough. But if you consider awareness, which is. Does not necessarily need ears to hear or.

Right.

An awareness is simply. It is the. It is the.

So there is no perception. With awareness, you see?

Correct. So why is there. So is there a difference in what we're saying or.

No, 100% is. See, perception requires knowledge.

Okay. Why?

Otherwise, how will you know what. Otherwise, how will you know what you perceive?

You don't need to know what you, who's been it's none of my business.

If you don't need to know what you perceive, then it is not perception. It is merely being and. Or awareness.

Okay. Oh, well, then that's.

That's.

That's fine with me. I'll take that. Well, it's just saying in the sense that an infant does not have. Understand its own perception. You don't have to know or understand to have perception. Instead of the knowing of the perception thing is not a.

You have to know. You have to know what it is. That's all. One has to know what it is. If you do not know what it is, then it will cause what is called as delusion. Well.

Oh, yeah, yeah. So we say. When you say what it is, what.

Do you mean is what is seen? Perception itself. Yes. Seeing and seeing is the same thing.

Yeah.

Verb. All birds. No, no, no, no, no, no. Verb is the seeing. Seen is the. Is the noun. Right. What is seen?

I see. Yes.

Right. So for there to be seeing, how will you know that there is seeing?

You know, oh, I see. Unless there is an object or to be seen. Is that correct?

Yes.

Yes, I see.

Yes. Without something seen, you cannot have seeing.

Correct.

Both of them arise at the same time. So seen and seeing are same.

Yeah.

Okay. That means what? Now what is seen is the seer itself.

Right?

Right. Because it's the. It is the. So the creation is the creator. Yeah, yeah. And the two things being simultaneous and the same thing.

One.

Yeah, I see.

Now after this, you have to see that neither of them exist because both of them are the scene only.

That's right. But if either can be changed and either could.

No, no, no. Nothing can be changed. I'm saying both of them are the scene. You're seeing both. No. Even if you say I'm seeing the seer, the minute you say I'm seeing the seer, the seer is an object.

Yes. So then it doesn't exist.

Doesn't exist. Now if I say I'm seeing the seeing itself. Now, seeing itself has been made an object.

But what if you just. Within you. Within. Yeah, within you.

When you say see without seeing, what does it mean? You know, I see without seeing.

Nothing. It doesn't mean anything.

No, it means something. When I don't need to know. You just now said it. No. Seeing is only knowing, is it not? Maybe.

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

No. How do you know that you've seen something? Right. It requires knowing also, I suppose.

Yes. Does it require knowing an infant. An infant does not know that it is seeing. It just Does. Does it require knowing?

That is what I'm trying to say.

Okay, but I'm not arguing with you, I'm just trying to clarify.

Go ahead.

Amit.

Hello? I think I lost.

Yeah.

Sorry.

No, whatever I said was that once you see clearly that the knowledge portion is not needed. To your point about the babies, they don't know. Right? That's okay that they don't know, but they don't know means we want knowledge here. Here we want knowledge. That is not knowledge. You just now said you want to see without seeing. There. They don't know, and they don't know that they don't know. You know, Here the knowledge is discarded. But you're doing that consciously. Yes.

Right.

You understand awareness portion is not there in that other situation. Oh.

Awareness portion is not where.

In which situation it's real. You know, in the case of kids or in the case of normal situation where normal people are. It's wheeled. It's got a covering on it, which therefore renders. Yeah. Just like the dream situation. You don't know that it's a dream. That barrier of knowledge. Yeah. And you cannot access any other dream state. Like for example, now you cannot access your dreams. In other words, the word dream itself now is a hearsay. You've never. In this state, nobody has experienced a dream.

Correct. In this moment.

Okay. And it can never be experienced in this state. So in waking state, one can only talk about the dream state. One can never experience it. And nobody in the waking state has knowledge of the dream state. Mere recollection, you see?

Yes.

Therefore one has to see what is the actual states and what is the thing that is causing the states. What is the thing that is realizing that there are states and what are states.

In doing so, is it not simply almost like a dissolving? Is it not just a steaming off.

Of all the crap, it is the removal of the ideas that is. That there is crap and all that stuff.

Whoa. Talking about a fun Saturday. Saturday night for me. So sorry. I apologize.

So, Tanay.

Yeah.

You said you had a comment.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Then I was asking maybe, like if you're talking about payment just from effort, it just occurred to my mind, then where do ideas come from? It's the same effort, Right? So ideas are basically effort or it's something else.

Do you take any effort to come up with an idea?

But I do feel that, you know, it's. There is something.

There is idea and then there is the elaboration and the struggle to make that idea so called reality. But the Idea itself is effortless, is it not? It suddenly appears to you, it occurs to you, you see, it is not that. You go and think it up. The idea comes to you. That's what you say. Hey, idea came to me.

So has the idea got something related to me to, you know, how I see or perceive or you know, the reality or partial, is it not?

Otherwise why would different people would get all the same ideas? Right?

I'm not. I'm not sure if I follow.

You see, your ideas come only to you, okay? Because that is your ideas you are seeing. So it is your conditioning, nobody else's.

Okay.

The ignorance is yours alone, is it not? If you believe in ghosts, whose ignorance is it?

Yes. Better to understand.

With the idea of ignorance, there is only ignorance, sir. How will you know about anything?

Yes, now it makes sense.

Yes.

Thank you.

So how does ignorance spread? It spreads because of the idea of knowledge.

Yeah, yeah.

The planting of weeds.

Yes. The very idea that you know something is the problem. That itself is the limitation. That itself is the conditioning. That itself is the filter. That itself is the holding on to the unreal.

May I ask specifically, how is it that you're able to. So this is not something that I would ever attempt, first of all to discuss, typically, unless it was with you. But also I. I would not attempt to ever tell someone else this because A, it'll piss them off. B, when they.

When.

When they. When it's witnessed that I sim. I may at times don't take ownership. It's very upsetting for other individuals or confusing or even makes me the fool and I don't care. But that is the case. And I'm curious how you. How you integrate this into your daily life. That. That it's not. It doesn't become a hindrance or at.

Least see, I'll tell you the actual answer there, you know? Sure. Who wants to be in peace and bliss and joy? I'll tell you. I want to be. Yeah. I don't. I want to be. I want the peace and bliss and joy. I want to experience it. And I don't want to ever have a situation where I don't experience it because I have tasted it once. Therefore there is no question about it. I know that I have it all the time and I experience it all the time. The minute a reaction occurs in me, the becoming process starts. The becoming process takes me from my own bliss to something that is not blissful.

Oh, my God.

So there is no question about other people here. Zero.

Right.

Right.

Right.

So even. Even my own Even my own sorrow. The moment that I even begin to allow sorrow, I'm like, oh wait, that makes me a thing that then the bliss is then gone. Because now I believe that I am a thing that is experiencing sorrow.

The knowledge of yourself begins to operate.

Wow.

Okay, shoot, shoot.

Now, therefore, you have to see clearly. It doesn't matter what is happening and the so called other people and all that, all that stuff has to be seen very, very, very clearly. What is this people? First of all, who is it that's experiencing anything?

Right. Well, well, yeah.

Therefore what is actually there? You know, what is actually there is what we were saying earlier. I want to experience bliss. I want to be peaceful. I don't want to have all these conflicts. I want to be free. Freedom is not an idea. You will not have it because you can prove it to yourself or somebody else. You will have freedom when you actually experience it. So that experience is what we are searching for, the actual experience of freedom, not the idea of freedom. So to get that experience, one has to see clearly. What is the blockage in that experience?

Only me.

Not me. Forget about the me question that me is not clear. What is that me?

The I Ness.

I Ness cannot be removed. No, no, I ness cannot be removed. Because I am always in my experience.

When I at any point believe that my thoughts on anything are significant enough to take out of this moment. Like now. Now, now, now, now. That's the only time I'm not free.

So in order to see this much more simply, let us say it like this. You see, instead of saying whether I believe in it or whether there is significance on what happened, all that stuff one can examine and all that or one can see. What is that examining of it is of what has happened. You just now said what has happened is the past, you know?

Yes.

When you say I want to be in the now, that is what you mean to say. Not in the future and not in the past. Future you cannot be in, but past you're constantly slipping into the past, you know?

Right, Right.

The minute you say something is in the past, is it not?

Yes.

Otherwise what are you saying it about? You know, if I. If you look at the stars, it is 10 light years away. That means it is 10 years ago. The picture.

Right.

If you look at a car about 10 miles away, it took some time for the light to come to your eyes. So what you're seeing is a split second ago.

Yeah.

Yes.

If you see it one foot away, it is also a split second ago. Everything you're seeing is A split second ago. Only you're not seeing the actual now. Right. Therefore, you cannot see the future, nor can you see the now. All you can see is the past. So any reflection is of the past. If you want now, now is the thing that causes the reflection.

It's always fresh, always empty, always potential.

Not empty. Not empty. Not empty.

By empty I mean. By empty I mean.

I know what you mean. There is nothing there. However, it is not that. That nothing we just now discussed. What is that nothing we had asked earlier.

That wasn't what I meant by empty. What I meant by empty was not scripted by meaning. I was not planning or expecting or hoping. Right. There's no thought there. It's just simply an openness. Right.

Yeah.

That's the empty I'm talking about.

Yes. Because you see exactly now, that situation. Let's examine that exactly. You see, when you say that whatever you described, it is the situation you're describing when the thought is not there. When thought is not there, you're saying what is thought Now? You know, just now we discussed something about what happened. Therefore you believe in all those things. So whatever is narrative, that narrative is based on the past memories.

Right.

So in fact, it is the memories.

It is false or not.

It is. It is nothing other than memory. It's nothing other than memory.

So the now.

So the minute you realize.

Go ahead.

The minute you realize that thought is memory, of course, then you're dealing with the past. And past is not there, it is dead. Right. It is just a partial knowledge of what I saw. Right. So now there is no question about seeing what the thought represents, you know? Yes. What the thought represents is only a past knowledge. I don't need to know the past knowledge or partial knowledge or any knowledge. Because not because I want to know something else. It's because what I wanted to experience was that freedom and bliss and all those things that we were discussing earlier, the cool shade of the now, where it is not limited and constricted by any thought at all. It is not constricted and anxious about the future. It is about its own bliss.

Compare it completely to the absolute openness of an infant and I.

Of.

Of open question, absolute acceptance and blank like, just simply like what. What is next? And that takes effort, not effort. Excuse me, that takes a little bit practice here. As you know, at this point as adults, where we are and what we believe and been taught and what we try to just like empty it every time. Every time. Every time.

Oh, yes. So let us come back to the question of effort. Just one last time. There's. And point out the simple truth that it takes no idea for any ideas to. It takes no effort for any ideas to come, but it takes the infinite effort. The only effort is to stop the ideas from coming.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is to stop the what?

The ideas. You see, it takes no effort from the idea to come there. It comes to you naturally, all the time. Constantly. Ideas are appearing. You say that you are thinking or mind is at work, but you're not doing anything. It's up, it's happening. No, like you're breathing or you're digesting your food. Is it not automatically happening? Yep, it is. So that point I'm making, you see, the whole thing is happening already, yet we think that we are doing it. And the thought of doing it is a thought, is it not? If you don't think you're doing it, is it not a valid situation.

In this.

Because that's. Now we agree that it is happening.

In awareness, there is the understanding or not even understanding. It simply is. I can only. Focused awareness is the only way to rigid or like, practice yourself out of those thinking. Out of the thinking mind habits. It's just to continue to like that.

That is called. Yes. That is called using the mind to kill the mind. Because all there is is mind. Even though we say it's not there. One. One deals with the thing that causes the illusion. Even though you say this is illusion, there is something that causes the illusion, you know?

Sure, yeah.

Because everything has a cause. If I say, why is this world appeared? If I say, how did this world appear? There has to be a cause. That's why I can ask the question. It's a fair question. Ultimately, why did this world appear? Yeah.

Can I ask one question?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So talking specifically about idea generation, as in that can be any idea in my head. So I have realized that I am a designer. I have good ideas. And so the problem that I face is I sometimes give it. Give the idea a certain direction. For example, if I have an idea, I say that I would. You know what? This would be great as an app. But then that's my designer mind thinking. At the same time, my designer mind sets a boundary that what if you did not give it a direction? And what if you let the idea flow in absolutely every direction? That would be a lot to think about. And you won't be able to think on that wavelength in all directions. So why not stick to the designer that you are? So how do you combat that boundary?

How do you first of all, one has to see clearly. What do you mean by I am a designer? Right. If you had not gone to design school or if you had not been exposed to that magazine article or you met somebody in life or whatever it is, would you have been a designer? Yeah. How would you have been a designer? You wouldn't know what a designer is. Yes.

So speaking only on my front, on my personal front, from a very early age, I would say it was grooming that got me into this environment of noticing design. Noticing good stuff.

Right. Okay. That means. That means you did not have anything to do with that, is what you're saying. Yes.

So I cannot be like, the world was in front of me, but your.

World was in front of you. Yeah, the grooming happened.

Certain level of grooming, for example, like kids in. In my era, they were pushed towards being a doctor.

First of all, you had to be born to the exact parents that you were born.

Yes.

Without that happening, none of this discussion is useful. Yep. So the ultimate cause for your life and trajectory and all that stuff is your birth to a specific set of parents. And they had a specific set of past history. And they had to be born exactly in that they had to be born. And then so on and so on and so forth until I had infinitum. But let's start with the life part only just there. Okay. You had no choice in it. Yep. And after the choice was made for you, all other choices were dependent on that choice. If you did not have a choice in the very first turn, the rest of it is pointless. It was predetermined. You already chose one point. There is no choice left. It was made for you, the choice. The rest is only a reaction to the choice made already. Yeah. Because otherwise you would not have that option at all in the first place to choose. Therefore there is no question of choice there whatsoever. It appears as choice, but it's really not. It's predetermined. You imagine it to be choice, but it's because you don't know that the predetermination has already occurred. Yep. Right. Yeah. So now to see clearly, this is the situation. And now when you say I'm a designer, you should see the absurdity of that statement. You're claiming to be a designer because you happen to have certain experiences in life, therefore you're limiting yourself. On the other hand, somebody who has no idea might come along and design something beautiful. He doesn't know he's a designer.

Yep.

And he's unlimited by that action needs no definition. You know.

No, when I said I am a designer, I'm speaking of in, in professional areas. For example, if I have a certain.

Experience in professional areas. In professional areas, do you think that the world's best designers have gone to school or they've got some ideas about what is design, or do you think that design in their minds, the best designers, do you think they have any ideas about design or do they think design is an open unknown, you know, totally abstracting the best designers?

Well, the people with will and belief in their ideas. There's no stopping to that.

So.

Correct. But I'm asking about what is design? No, I understand. Design is everything, Right. Therefore it is not anything in particular.

Yeah.

If you say it's everything, it cannot be anything in particular. Right. So if you say it is this or that, it is not that, is it not? Because it is everything.

No, the, the thing that I said about designer is I have a certain capability on my shoulders and.

Capability upon your shoulders.

Yeah.

So for example, you're in a. You're in a dream right now. Suppose you go to sleep tonight and you wake up as a baker, not as a dreamer. I mean as a designer. Okay. You wake up in the dream as a baker and you're having this conversation there. I'm a baker, I have this thing, I have a talent to make these beautiful pastries and stuff. You're saying to the person. Yeah. And if the person says to you, you're thinking you're a baker because you happen to be born one in this dream, but in fact you're not that. Is it a true statement or is it not a true statement? It is, it is. So we are talking about the same thing here. The idea that you are a baker or a designer or whatever is an idea, a knowledge based idea. And one has to believe that idea. So as long as you believe in that idea of what you are, whatever it might be, I mean the trick, you're in some kind of a not reality, is it not? You may call it a dream or you may call it whatever you like, but it's not reality.

So I'm limiting myself based on the predetermined choices that I thought as choices.

Right? Is it not?

Yes, it is.

Right. So then you talk about freedom. The freedom means not having any predetermination there, is it not? Otherwise there is no question of freedom. Are you free now? Because if you've been, everything is predetermined for you and you have the illusion of choice, is it called freedom, Not freedom, is it not? It's not because it's predetermined for you. In a dream, everything is happening there. It's already happening. It's a movie playing. Those people have no choice. It's a movie. It's just happening. So nobody there has free will because the whole dream is running as a single thing. The whole universe is operating as a single thing, is it not? That's what it means. Dream is happening. I was in a dream, I witnessed a dream, I had a dream, right? So that whole thing is happening. So nobody individually in the dream has any free will, is it not? Yeah, it was meant to happen that way in the dream. Nobody there had a choice. So there. If you say, why did you do this? Why did you do that? I will. I'm better. You're better. These are all foolish statements because the entire thing is happening as a single unit, right? The question of I in a dream is foolish. That I question is what? The entire dream is one. So who is that I there? Everybody says, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. Who's actually doing something? In fact, nobody is. It appears to be happening, is the thing. In fact, nothing is happening at all. Nothing is there in fact, but it's appearing to be there, in fact. That appearance itself you refer to as a dream later on, Right? And you say, I had a dream. Now that I had a dream is being said in a state that is not the dream because the dreaming has ended. And you know that that was not real. You say it is a dream. Correct. But that is just.

You only realize it after you wake up, right?

That is the word you use after you wake up, right? Which means what? That has ended. Something new has started. And you are now giving the reality to the new thing that has started. And you say, this is real and this is called waking state. And I am always here and this is what I am. And all those things exactly the same thing as what you did before, just that it is now in this different state, that's all.

So how do you not think that? How do you.

No, no. Now the question is, who does the thing? Now the question is, who is that thinker? When I say how do you not think that? Who is the thinker and who is the doer? And who is the. Who is that one that you're talking about? The one that you're talking about is the character called Sam. Just like in the dream it was the character Sam the baker. This question is coming from the character only because it's happening in the dream or in the Waking state.

Oh, okay.

Is it not? Yeah, that is the thing to be seen.

So I have woken up from the dream does not make this a reality, number one. Number two is I have woken up from the dream does not mean that I am not that Baker anymore. That Baker has still latched on making the same interpretations of reality.

Is it not? Because when you say I'm awake and you're the Baker, you're actually not awake, you're actually dreaming, is it not?

Yeah, yeah.

And in fact, nor are you dreaming because the dreamer is actually asleep in order to be the dreamer. So therefore all the three states are happening at the same time. You know, There are no states you have to see clearly. There is only the three things happening at the same time. Means what? Dreaming is the reality or unreality or the knowledge of what is which comes and goes. Waking is the reality of what is happening now and giving reality to the world, which happens in dreaming also. But the dream world includes in it the unreality of it, you see, Whereas the waking assumes the reality of it. But both of them are question of knowledge only. And to whom is that knowledge appearing? Is the question.

Something to think about today?

Any questions?

No, no, no, no.

I'll have to think about what sandbay I spoke about.

So I, yeah, I'll.

Have to think about it and maybe you can sync up next meeting. Definitely this, this I have, I think I'll have a couple of questions for the next one.

Yeah, same here.

You actually asked a really good question.

So, Mr. Brandon, how's it going, sir?

Very good, very good. I was enjoying just listening. I was thinking about that effort question all week. I just, I put, I put it on a sticky on my computer so I could look at it.

Then what did you come up with? What is effort? I don't know.

I couldn't, I, I, I don't know exactly. I was trying to investigate. I feel like. I don't, I don't know how to put that into words. What effort.

One thing has to be seen. First of all, all. Everything happens automatically. You know, ideas come to us automatically, breathing happens automatically, movement and talking. And if I say sit down there for 10 minutes and don't talk, it'll be very difficult.

Yes.

If I, if they ask about if this is all this is true, then what will I do in the world? And all they ask, first of all, that means you don't understand that you don't have to do anything. Second, you cannot not do something even if you talk in the terms of doing. Is it possible. Is it possible for somebody to not do anything? It's impossible. They'll start doing something. Some nonsense. Impossible. You cannot stop breathing, you cannot stop digestion, you cannot stop growth. Change. It is happening automatically. Ideas are coming to you. Can you stop ideas? Can you stop thinking? It's happening already. Everything is happening already. The only effort is to not let it happen as it's happening and try to change it. That's the effort. It's not a question of acceptance, it's a question of seeing clearly that effort arises when I don't let what is happening happen. The idea of effort itself arises. Oh, I don't want this to be happening. And I must act to change it.

It's like. Like trying to take take control of the reins like that.

Yes. Absolute. Must do something is the feeling, Is it not? What happened? No.

So I just. I was just thinking about what you said like 10 minutes ago. So basically, I have to unlearn that judgment that I have created in my mind that this is what I can do, this is what I am, this is what I have. Hence I should walk on this direction.

You can do anything you want. Yes.

And I have to let the idea grow on its own, independently, in whichever direction. That idea, whatever, like that. That is the later part. But yeah, I got. I got you.

What? You know, first of all, you have to only see what are you, what are you? You're not the Baker, you're not the designer. Now again, we are discussing other ideas. This idea, that idea, etc. Many ideas are appearing now. But what are you?

Just a brain giving out ideas.

The brain disappears. No? Which brain? Sam's brain or which Sam Baker's brain? Designer's brain. Which brain? The brain and the brain. But that only appears for some time. No? In a few hours it will disappear. None of the brain will appear. Oh yeah. So which brain are we discussing now? The present. The present brain. Okay, but that present brain only belongs to the character, is it not? And that brain is past. So in the. For example, in the dream, the Sam Baker has a brain and he will say all the things, etc. Etc. Memories, etc. Is it that the brain has the memories or does the memories have the brain? In that situation.

Brain has the memories, right?

In that situation, the Sam Baker has come out of memory. That's what is a dream. Yeah.

Oh, in the dream, yes, yes, yes.

So what is seen, we said, is not real. It is an appearance. Because in the dream there is no material there. It is all just consciousness. Only it Is just an appearance. Therefore Sam's whole body and the whole universe has come out of memory. Without a particular type of memory, how will you know what that baker looks like? How will you know what the pastry looks like? Correct. So the dream can only appear as a world and all that if you already know what it is.

Oh yes, okay, yeah, yeah, I got into that.

The brain of Sam the baker is being projected in memory, not the other way around. Because brain is just a bunch of cells. No, it's empty. Just a bunch of. It's like material, just objects. It has. How can it have memory? You know, brain is changing. The cells are changing all the time. You know, every seven years the body cells change out. So that means your body is itself, not your own body. Every time it's changing, the atoms are moving. Everything is changing. So what do you mean by your body has memories? You understand? Consciousness is not there in any atom. It's a matter, matter and not matter. Matter is what? Energy? Yes, even energy is matter. E is equal to MC squared. So matter and energy are the same, but they are both not sentience. Sentience is what knows about matter.

I'm sorry, what's the word? What's the word?

Matter? Sentience, like, you know, sentient being. Sentient being or somebody who has. Sentience means somebody who's aware or conscious or what you call alive or the. The intelligence or is it an intelligent creature, Intelligent life in planets. Right. Is there intelligent life out there? Yeah. What is that? Intelligence? Because that intelligence doesn't. Is not there everywhere. One says. One says that there is intelligent life. They mean to say that certain beings, like human beings or certain chimpanzees or whatever, dolphins have a certain level of.

Intelligence, they say, or an expression of intelligence.

They are an expression of intelligence. Yeah. So that is what is meant by intelligence. And that is what, or sentience or whatever you want to call it, the knowing factor. All these things, the metacognition, perception. Right. Consciousness, the level of consciousness is different in different beings. Like a snake is conscious, only limited consciousness. Whereas we are meta conscious. Conscious of consciousness. You see, all the way up now in this whole situation, knowledge, brain. Now where does the brain appear in this whole situation? You know, consciousness is not there in any object. Objects are in consciousness, clearly. So that is the reason why different bodies keep appearing and disappearing. And your different things, your bakers and your designers and so many different things. That is called the dreaming. No, in what sense is it different? Right now.

In nothing. But my mind is more convinced that what I dream or what I think I am is what is reality.

Absolutely correct. But isn't that belief not there only in this dream state? Yes, Right. That disappears the minute this changes.

The minute I would wake up.

No, no. Yeah. Or go into any other dream state. Or any other waking state. Or any other state. This state disappears. The other state consciousness. Yeah. If you start daydreaming, you will forget this situation. You might even have an accident. Nice.

Okay.

The simplest things to understand are the most difficult.

Because the character who is saying that statement is giving reality to it. No, no, no. Is giving reality to the statement. Therefore you think it's true. That's true. Or false is the thing to be seen. Whatever you believe is true or false, right? Yep. It's as simple as a binary switch. True or false. It's either seen to be real. Like I smoke and I have to smoke and I need to smoke and all that, or I clearly see I don't need to smoke anymore. It's sickening. I couldn't believe I smoked for so many years and not a single cigarette after that. It's a binary switch. Finished. It's done. There is no reality to it after that. I don't need to smoke after that. You see, that's the. That's the belief.

But do you need a specific event to impact the realization?

See, the thing is, who will realize it? The character is not real. So the character cannot realize anything.

Really quick, I have to bounce. I'm at my appointment. But thanks guys, this was great. And I can't wait till next week. See you guys.

So, for example, me in a dream state, the Sam the Beaker was a smoker years ago. And yes, the only. The only reason.

And then he changed. And then he changed and he became a non Smith. The question now is, was there an event that caused it to happen?

Yes.

Now I'm pointing out that he is not real. The whole thing is a dream. So what does it mean? There was no agency there. Right. Sam did not choose either to smoke or to not smoke. He never had choice in either. So the question of choice is not there whatsoever.

It was just a play with events happening.

It was just a play in consciousness called a dream. The play in consciousness. Is it not a dream? The play, like a theater production in consciousness is what you call a dream, is it not? With all the dream characters coming and playing a part and doing different things. Yeah. In fact, you yourself are in there and you also play a part. You forget the fact that you play the part so well. You even forget that you're playing a part, a dream.

So is it of purpose to escape the dream or stay in the dream?

Whose purpose? Yeah.

Anyone who is desiring evolution, who.

Who can possibly desire it? It's all dream characters. You see, the question of evolution can only come from an individual point of consciousness who thinks that it is an actual person and reality and I am there, etc. Etc. The character becoming real is what is meant by I. It creates the false baker eye, which limits itself to its own understanding of the universe.

Okay, so the wall of I am in a dream and it will take a humongous effort to come out of the dream is the wall that I have created, which is again, a part of.

Is it not? Yeah. Yes. Everything. You only create. That's why it's called creation. Wow. This is.

This will take some time to. I shall meditate on this.

See, I'll tell you one thing, very important thing. We just now discussed the very, very dangerous nature of knowledge because it clouds the reality. All knowledge is unreal because it's not the actual thing. So it's best that you don't make any major ideas about what we are discussing because they will become ideas.

Again, don't try to deduce it.

I was just going back and forth on both.

That is a very, very important statement that Sam just made because the deduction process is an intellectual process which only happens within the conscious state. And we are discussing where does consciousness come from.

Yeah.

All right. All right, guys.

Okay.

Yes. On that note, the next question for tomorrow, next week is that only where does consciousness come from?

Where does consciousness come from?

Because earlier you said that the brain and so on and so forth was referenced in terms of Sam. Right. And his baker knowledge and so on. And it comes from the memory stored in his brain, you said. But then we later said that the Sam. The baker's brain itself comes from memory. So the whole thing becomes unclear as to whether the brain has consciousness or consciousness has the brain.

Chicken and the egg.

It's not a chicken and the egg, because chicken and the egg is a paradox. And paradox cannot actually exist. It is a paradox in the mind, you know, so something is actually there existing. No.

Yeah, but what is that point?

So we are after the reality of the existence, not a theory which is paradoxical. We want to know the actual truth. The actual truth is here itself, directly. We can know it because it is here. There is no need to discuss the knowledge is the problem we mentioned earlier. We want to know the direct truth, which does not involve knowing or what you call knowledge based knowing. It requires the actual being of what is and what is in all situations of dream or waking. Now, that is what we are discussing. What is the actual situation? Whether it's a dream, whether it's waking or it's sleeping or it's any other state. What is the actual thing? Not what appears during those states. Right? Yeah. Yep. All right, guys, we'll talk next week.