iRealization - Season 02 Episode 02

Yeah. So let's start off today by this cool quote I read or not cool. Really amazing. For primitive egoism, however, the standing rule is that it is never I who must change, but always the other fellow. And that's basically in the I realization. You never change. You got tangled up in this, in this thing. And you call this. Call this self, your thing. So I realization, if you think about it, is to find out who you really aren't. Because out of the infinite things that there are, you have to realize what you're not. Because you're just one. And that's what I'm, right?

Because you cannot realize what you are. It's that simple.

To realize really just means to internalize in your reality, right? So what do you mean you can't realize awareness?

To realize something requires some kind of a realization, you know? It requires some conceptual understanding of what something you realize. Otherwise, what is there to realize, you know? And what you can realize is only the known and not the unknown. So the known is the realization and is only of knowledge. So in the end, there is nothing to realize. That's the thing you cannot realize. There's nothing to realize. There's nobody to realize. That's all.

Why is there something to be known?

Everything is known only, right?

Like when I'm awareness, or if I'm only aware, where does the duality come from? Where's this knowledge coming from?

Where you say I am aware. No, the minute you say I am aware, you have created duality. How? Who is that eye who is aware?

Oh, who is that?

I see, in awareness there is no question of I.

So you're saying awareness is like this big chamber in which everything is being aware. Is that what we.

Is it not? It's not a chamber, because chamber has a dimension and limits. But what is the source of limits or the source of dimensions? You see, dimensions come from somewhere, you know, the very concept of measurement, the very concept of dimensionality of something there, you know, of what you call reality of some things. Existence, you know, existence of what you know, the minute you say I am, or something is. There is the observer. There is the knowledge of it and the objects. This is called duality.

And if I am see, this awareness feels like. I've read a lot that people say that you should wake up, you this, you this, and wake up the eternal unborn self. Is it that we haven't been born, or is it that we're asleep? Because it seems like a chamber where we are constantly aware of everything.

See, again and again, there's no need to go and read all these books. First you have to understand who is this one asking? You see, in a dream you may go and read many books and you will understand many things. And you may say this is like this, this is like that. But what is the use. Knowledge. Knowledge is a transient something. Something comes and goes. You know.

Like supposing you see a microscope and there's bacteria on the. On the thing, on that white, on that glass thing. You're using the microscope to become aware of the bacteria. So at that level the microscope is the awareness. So same way are we also like a microscope, trying to understand ourselves better and then it will. Something will happen afterwards or this is all there is.

First of all, when you say afterwards, the notion of time, you know. So first we have to understand for whom will something happen? For whom is anything happening? You see, the whole question of time and sequence requires an observer which is nothing but what you can only observe partially. No. If everything is observed, can you say that you've observed something? No, no. So the only partial observation creates this notion of something. Otherwise there cannot be any notion of anything because it's complete. In completeness there is no division at all.

So you're saying only when I observe am I able to see something. Otherwise there is nothing. Is it that?

Is it not? How will you. Without perception, how will you perceive something?

Yeah, but is it that the whole universe has already ended and nothing is the answer and we're just here to see how everything works, leads up to nothing. Like are we just playing a game.

That'S already over 100%? How would it only the past, you know, how will it isn't that kind.

Of crazy to tell people that all of this is just happening in time.

Or a triple time? No, no, no. Who are you saying to that you.

See, like we need a lot of people, right?

No, no, no. Listen, listen, listen. Pay attention. Okay. First you understand that there is nobody there. Then there is nobody to tell, you know?

Yeah.

Who are you going to tell if that if you feel like going and telling people you have not understood it. There's nobody to tell who you tell to.

No, no. Now that I identify as Rishabh, I would like to wake up other people also now.

That's all. But that is the very ignorance. No, you have not woken up. You're just another idea. Oh, I'm going to wake up. There's nothing to wake up. Nobody is going to wake up. You. You are identifying with something that doesn't exist. In what way is that Suddenly going to give you something.

In what way is that something? What do you mean by that?

Something that's not there. Can it accomplish something?

No.

Then is it not ignorance? No.

Okay. It seems like this universe is. Well, of course it seems like one thought. If the game has already ended, then every possibility has already happened.

Now first of all, is there a universe? Which universe? This dream universe or some other universe.

Or you know, universe that has rules. And those rules called science.

All. All universes because you call them something like a universe is based on some concept of rules and universal system. And otherwise you will not call it universe. So the very universe that you are saying which has rules, which one? Which? Which one? The one in the dreams or one in the waking or whose dream? You know.

See, I am calling this the universe, the things that I see. Because I'm kind of locked in it. And that's why I keep going.

Only in this waking state, you know, Only in this waking state can you explain. Can you express that you're locked in it? How would you. In another.

What do you mean by this waking state?

Right now you're in a waking state that you say you are waking, right? You're woken up, you're walking around as Rishabh, right? Is it not?

Yeah.

Same as in a dream state where you say, I'm going to school, I have to do this and that. That's the dream state which you realize after the fact. But during the dreaming you think it's waking. No, that's what I mean by this waking state. This particular waking state is that situation. But this waking state doesn't last, you know, it disappears. And another dream state or other state start which you don't know what it is until it ends. At which point you do know what it is. Nobody needs to tell you one way or the other whether it was real, not real, all those things. All the knowledge is there in you. That's all.

If you try to explain this to someone, they'll always jump to the conclusion of oh, if everything is already done, then I can just go kill people. I can do whatever I want. So why is there.

Dharam, you can tell if you go and tell people and if they really believe that what you've said, they will go and kill people and they will get. And there will be no problem. Actually, is it not in a dream if you go and kill many people? Does it happen? Anything happens?

No.

So it's a fact. So it's a question of understanding what you will want to do if you're really in a dream. If you're really in a dream and you really want to kill people, I mean, how do I stop you?

What I've realized from idealization is that everything is kind of a. Kind of an illusion, kind of a lie. So what is the chance that our understanding that awareness is all there is is also wrong? I mean, we're only. We're only.

This is not an understanding. You see, that is because there is two things here. You see, you can read a lot of books and become an expert in mangoes. And you can be a PhD in mangoes, but you've never eaten a mango. You cannot claim to be. I mean, what is the use of that knowledge? So you can become an expert in awareness. Because awareness is as you call it. Awareness is only a concept. It doesn't exist. What is actual awareness needs no words and cannot be expressed. But it is there to be eaten. It is all there is. You have to experience what there is. But that experience is veiled because of what is called as the ignorance factor. Ignorance factor is what creates any experience. Otherwise there cannot be any experience, is it not? Because there is nothing going on in a dream, can you have any experiences? You are sleeping, is it not? So whatever experiences you are having are actually imagination, isn't it? So where is the question of experience and where is the question of imagination in this situation? When your dreaming has to be become very, very clear? The actual experiences of sleeping, nothing but imagination of so many things. Then when you wake up, you say, oh, very peacefully, I slept. If you remember your dream, you will say I was so tired, I was running around and all these things. So understand clearly the reality versus the imagination portion. If 10 people have the same experience and you ask them what it was, you will get 10 different answers. So can there be some exact experience that has happening somewhere? Or is it only your personal imagination about it?

Yeah, it's personal imagination.

Once this has become clear, then where will you go and tell whom you're imagining it all? No.

Yeah.

Then what? I'll go around telling myself, is it like a fool?

But other parts of myself are quite lost. They don't know that this is all just one.

No, no, no. See, where is the question of your left leg being lost and right leg not being lost? Where is the question of your left leg being separate from your right leg? Is it not? Is it not? Do you think of it as separate? What do you mean by other parts of me? I lost you. Are you. That's it. There is no question of division. There is it not. Do you say, my left hand is better, I will treat it better than my right hand?

Yeah. No.

And if some parts of your body are diseased or dying or as they are right now, the whole cells are changing and all that is happening, you're not saying, oh, I must protect this cell. I must protect that cell, poor cell, it's dying. It's a process, isn't it? The process is happening.

And why? Kind of feels ruthless. Kind of feels ruthless that I don't know what process is actually going on. And I'm kind of in this distributed human node and myself.

Why is rootless. Okay. Rootless. Yes, yes. So you have to understand, what is that meaning of the word root? Why you feel rootless, as if you need a root? Who is that eye that needs the root? See, without understanding yourself, there is no point in trying to tell everybody what you don't understand, really.

To understand the self. I have a question. Now, you talk a lot about nothing and everything. Now, is nothing just silence? Or is it like a union of everything into a big thing that's beyond everything, not a thing at all? Or is it just silence and absolute.

See, the very concept of nothing requires a concept of something, you know?

Yeah.

So both nothing and something are ideas. They are not actually present. What is present is only ideas about what is there. When those ideas are not there, you will say, there is nothing. Because what you know, only you can express. So what is actually there?

Has nothing existed forever? Or was it created after a big game? Just like the game we're playing right now.

You can trace it back yourself and get your experience, or the answer to this question, how did this experience arise? You see, this experience arose when you woke up this morning. Before that, you were in some other experience, you know? Right.

And after. So after this human experience. Oh, if you think about it, after this human experience, you become nothing. And then you'll respawn into another experience.

No, no, no. How do you know that there is nothing? You know? See, this is very important. You know yourself as something. Then that something disappears. Does that mean you disappear?

No.

So what is that that doesn't disappear? It is not a thing. You see, that's why it's called nothing. No thing. But what is there that has to be found out? Who knows that there is no thing? You know? How do you know that there is no thing there? Nothing there. How do you know there's nothing there? How do you know there's no thing in that situation?

Because that's all I can do. I can All I can do is know and be aware.

If that is the case, then I ask you again, who are you? If all you can do is know, then can you have a body?

I mean, why do I need to know so much? Kind of seems like I'm in jail, you know, like.

No, no, no. First of all, did you choose to wake up in this experience with this knowledge? Yeah. Why?

First of all, I am the dictator of this universe. I control everything. I made everything. If I identify as the right person.

Not this distributed, you cannot identify as anything in the universe because nothing in the universe has created it.

Yeah.

So whoever you identify with is only possible in the universe, you know? But the creator of the universe is not in the universe.

We are. The creator is experiencing all of it, naturally.

It's like imagination.

So the Creator is dreaming. Can we say that?

Is it not? Is it?

So the creator, when he wakes up, wouldn't be extremely lonely? Or would it be just what it is?

See, that question of loneliness again brings in the question of me as a separate entity that doesn't exist. So it is not lonely. Actually. It is only. You are the only thing. There is no question of loneliness because there is no second thing.

Yeah, yeah. It's quite empowering when you try to really realize this instead of just talk about it, because then you really realize that, holy shit, once I wake up, it's just gonna be me. I'm gonna be that guy who woke up, you know? Or once I die, I'll wake up.

This is what you're speaking now. That is the very trap. Nobody can wake up, you see, because that is the illusion that somebody will wake up and something will happen, and afterwards, something will happen, something happening afterwards. The one who wakes up. All of this is a lie, you know?

So everything only happens before.

You're saying there's nothing happening, sir, you are constantly trying to imagine an outcome in which you are there and something is very happening according to your ideas. Repeatedly. Where is the question of the ego not being present? You're constantly saying, something will happen, something will happen. Holy shit, I will wake up. That's ego.

Then maybe I should not look within myself. I'll look within you and have a question. Because where. Where are you right now?

That question of where arises only after I am, you know.

And who do you choose to be right now? Who are you?

There is no. There is no locus on that, you know? There is no locus. How can you see once you have realized what it is? Can there be a locus?

Yeah, I mean, if I choose to be a really angry Rishabh.

No, no, no. Choice is. First of all you have to understand clearly. Can there be choice?

Can there be choice?

That is in a dream, is there free will? The question of free will is for the agent, you know, the actor. So all these different characters in the dream. Do they have free will or are they playing a script based on the dreamer?

In the dream there is no free will. The environment has the free will.

Right? The dreamer is dreaming and everything is happening. That's it.

Yeah.

Right. So everyone is playing a part as if they're in a movie, you know.

Wait, how is that possible? So who is the dreamer then in the dream? And what is everything? How is everything going on with right now?

You can. You can examine your own experience. You go to sleep tonight and you dream in which super is launched in multiple countries. And you're having all this fun and all that is happening. Who is the dreamer and who is everybody? You are everything. You are the dreamer. During the dream. But when the dream ends. You're neither the dreamer nor the dreamed.

Okay. Got him. I mean all this that we talk about can gone and implement it and work. But one society after maybe a couple hundred years has automated all the. All this normal tasks. And now that you start telling people this. This knowledge.

See sir, you. Between you and me first. Look, let's become clear. There is no society, there is nobody to tell. This question of going and telling everybody and the society and all these things end.

But we work for them.

There is no them. No, there is no them. What are you talking about? Repeatedly?

Myself.

Again, that question of myself is still egoic. In the actual, there is no question about myself there.

In the actual, Is there an I? There's an I.

Not at all. I means not the way you speak of it. When you say I, what do you mean? That's why I keep asking you what do you mean by I?

Oh yes. Sometimes I mean Rishabh, sometimes I mean existence.

There is no Rishabh anywhere. There is only existence. What you call Rishabh is simply a collection of ideas, isn't it? Where is the reality of such an idea? Isn't it only your own ideas? Does anybody else have the same ideas about Rishabh as you do? And if not, why not? And if there was some reality to Rishabh, shouldn't everybody have the same idea?

Yeah. Yeah.

So if you have your own idea about something. In what way you call it real.

Okay. What if there was? Okay. So if everything didn't exist and nothing is all There is.

Would nothing forget about all these things. You cannot analyze it with mind. First of all, you're analyzing using objects. You cannot analyze it, it cannot be analyzed. Because all analysis is based on observation and perception. That's all end. There's no need to analyze. You can keep on analyzing. In the dream, what happens. But it's a dream. When it ends, it's over. And that's the only knowledge.

Once the dream, how can I realize that faster so that I can like jump up and start acting in life?

For that you need to realize there is nobody to realize that. You're still stuck in your egoic mind of saying I will realize this. See, everything is knowledge. You're trying to get knowledge about it. And I just now explained it is the source of knowledge. You cannot have knowledge of it. You can only have knowledge, period. So you're searching for something that cannot be found. So rather than analyzing all this, I mean just saying that in you know, nothing, everything, all these things, first you understand very simply, when I say something, who is the one saying it?

Who's the one something is saying?

But you don't know who, what is that something? Right?

Yeah, I don't know.

So until you find out who is saying your own words, how will. What is the point in understanding some other things, some conceptual things? Sir? See, when you're walking on the road, suddenly one car comes about to hit you. Automatically your body jumps out of the way. Yeah, who did that? You say I jumped out using my subconscious. It was a reaction, reflex, intuition, all these things. Definitely not what you consider free will, which is usually analysis and decision making process. But the action took place where the body moved out of the way and you know, safety and all that was there. Automatic reflex. So who is the one doing that? You're not aware of it when it happens. You know it happened. That's why it's called automatic. So who is doing that?

I had a question in between. I forgot, I forgot. Who's doing that? The one who's doing everything, isn't it? So, okay, is awareness the wrong word to use? Because isn't awareness the one running also everything?

Yes. So awareness is a word you can use any word. Words have no meaning, you see, what is there, is there. What is the use of words? If I say mango, I can discuss forever till we are blue in the face, or you can eat the mango. That's all there is no need to discuss. You know, the description part is of no use. It is only for the illusory portion because the speaker and the listener, both are not there.

On a day to day basis. Like every day. The sun comes out when I wake up. Who should I recognize as.

Because you need to look within yourself. No, what is it that you were from the very beginning of what you can recall? What were you? Can you recall yourself when you were 2 or 3 or 10 or 15 or, you know, I can recall. If you recall, you will see that it is the same feeling. The feeling of I doesn't change.

Yeah, it's the other fellow.

No, no, forget about other fellow. I'm saying when I say me, if I remember myself from 10 years ago, I will have a feeling of myself. You know how it was then, that feeling and now this feeling of me. The feelings are the same of being me. Whatever you feel is the content of the feeling. But the feeler, the me portion, the one who is experiencing it, the me has been the same when I was 10 or 5 or, you know, I would always say I will do this, I will do that when I'm older. That I has never changed in quality. What has changed is all the stuff around me. And they say I grew up older or whatever time has passed. Right. But that feeling is always me. It's not in words. It's the actual. I know I am. You know. Don't you know that you are?

Yeah, I know.

Right. But you're looking how we will find the being. People are always searching for the being. You know, I will wake up and all that. But you already are. How will you be after you already are.

If I already am? What is now?

What's happening now is the concept. You've created something called now and you're saying that it is now. Now. This is. This is happening. This is happening. This is happening. But only based on your perception, isn't it?

Yeah. Any ideas why I've created this now? I mean, I could have created anything. What the hell is this now?

The now is what is. But you have called it now because of the ignorance portion. Otherwise the question of time doesn't arise. You know, what is, is, where is the question of time? If you go to cow and say, hey, what is the time? It'll be like, I don't know now. You see, the question of now is only when you come up with concepts of, you know, time, sequencing, sequencing, cause and effect. So if you create causality, you're creating time. If you think there is something happening, you create time. Basically, any thought creates time. Any second idea of anything at all creates what is called as the illusory Factor. Anything that doesn't exist is the illusion, you know.

But it seems quite restricted that you need. If you want to think of an idea, you need to first create time. I mean, why don't you need to create like a snake? Why don't you need to create?

No, no, no. First of all, who is that? You've not. When you're in your dream and you go and you sleep tonight and you're having, you know, super is launching in Indonesia or something, there's jungles, there's snakes, there's tigers. Who created those?

Time. Time created those.

There's no need to say time. You created time. So first of all, you are the one who created it, no? Yeah, Time also was created by you. Space was also created by you. Tigers and you know, whatever else was also created by you only know in the dream. Then in the inside the dream, you're asking somebody should create a snake and all that. Everything is already there been created.

No. Like if we create space, time to view this infinite thing, are there other things that we can create to view in a different way?

It's just imagination, right? There is nothing there. Whatever you imagine is, you will be seeing it. That's all?

Yeah, that's all. Okay, now I realization. How is someone supposed to realize without the concepts of everything? Like once I look at everything, I realize that, oh, the answer is not here. So where should someone even start looking for it? You can't even look for it, can you?

Cannot. There's nobody to look for anything. Nobody is having a realization. Nothing is actually happening, you know. So this question itself falls into the void, so to speak, with no answer needed.

I still have a question. Even if I am aware, why is there something to be aware of and whatever there is to be aware of that just me.

See, you are the one creating the very imagination of something you know. And then you're asking, why should I be aware of my own imagination? And the answer is, you don't. Because it's not there. So when you wake up, so called wake up, what people call waking up, this idea of something there being there. Or the dream disappears like you, you see, it's happening every time, you know, that's it. So everything disappears. That's the end. Finished.

What if someone comes to you and just insists that everything you're saying is crazy? There's nothing beyond this mind and body and this universe. I mean, whatever you say doesn't. I can't see anything, I can't feel anything. But I can definitely.

I'm not, you know, it's like this, you know, somebody can come and have a long discussion of mangoes, but when, when I don't, there's no need to discuss the mango. If I'm eating the mango, you know, I'm eating it. Where is the question of discussing it? We are describing, you know, mere description is not a discussion. I'm not discussing anything, you know, it's a simple description. If somebody wants to be interested in this description, they're welcome, but it is a description. Everybody you ask, they'll have a different description of their experience.

I realize that a description is exactly a simulation. Like you can have that apple in digital, or you could have that apple in words, that mango in words.

There is only knowledge. This is what we've been saying repeatedly. There is only consciousness. There are no objects. You only have consciousness of objects, isn't it?

Yeah.

So you have to see what is actually there and what is not there. What is actually there is consciousness. In the same way that in the ocean you will see many waves, you know, but if you really look, are there any waves? What is it you call wave? Isn't it a movement of water? And in fact, there is nothing called wave. There is only the ocean.

In fact. Oh, yeah, this wave is just a ocean cascade or a fall.

It is within that. It is just a transient movement. So just like that, the universe is one single thing. And all the things are happening there, so to speak, within it. But in particular, nothing is can be said to be happening on its own. You know, nothing is independent. When everything is connected into a single happening, so to speak, because it's interrelated. Nothing in particular can ever be said to happen because it isn't independent. So what has happened is the whole thing in which nothing has ever been created or changed or transformed or destroyed because it is only consciousness. And everything appears to have happened, but has not happened. In fact, in that way.

Does it actually mean for something to happen or is everything just in the end a dream?

Every religion also points to this basic thing, isn't it? And why they say it is because it's evident in your own experience. Every day you will have this experience of whatever you are experiencing disappears. What you call waking also disappears, you know. So where is the question of permanency? Why are we discussing this permanent notion of something being real versus more real, less real, once you see that the whole process is there, where is the question of what you might have called real in the past?

Yeah, I'm just thinking, how did. No, that's not even a Good question.

It's okay, you can ask it because it will clarify.

No, I'm just thinking in the Hindu religion then on the surface, why isn't it exactly what we're talking about.

It is not at the surface. At the very core of Hindu religion is something called Sanatana Dharma. It is not even all the Hindu. You know.

Yeah, that's what I'm asking. Why is it at the core? Like in the hidden spot? It should be on the surface. Everyone should just know where awareness is a dream. Or is it not good?

No, no, I don't think it's a.

Good idea if everyone knows it's a dream.

By the way, repeatedly, you're going back to the illusion where there is somebody there who will know it's a dream, not know, and so on and so forth. You know, for some, for you to say it is a dream means you don't know what it is. I'm saying this to you because we are trying to, you know, understand it, but otherwise you don't have. You will know. I will. I will not be going around telling people. Isn't it? If you go to awake vc, it doesn't say this is a dream, you know, the reason is, what is there to say.

It'S not really a dream, actually, we just call it a dream because that's what we can interpret.

We call it a dream, we call it waking. Both of them are not correct. What it is has to be found out. You know, That's what I mean. Earlier words are confusing, you know, because we have given some meaning to the word waking and some meaning to the word dreaming.

Yeah.

That is why I'm pointing to the actual experience. Don't you experience every day the various states of consciousness, what is called as waking state, dream state, sleep state.

And. But this waking state, dreaming state has really evolved, right? I mean, at the beginning we were just cells that were eating each other up. Then we develop the capabilities.

Where is the question of we in that situation? You see what came first? Consciousness or some cells.

Consciousness.

So does consciousness have the body or does body have the consciousness?

The first one consciousness has.

So if once become clear, where is the question of evolution?

The question of evolution. But our consciousness is evolving, isn't it? It's getting better and better.

Not at all. Consciousness is just the.

Oh, yeah, okay.

What is changing is the content of it. You know, what you're saying is better or worse is only an idea you. Based on your past memories.

When I say everything is conscious, you can't really say that to People because their idea of conscious is different, they think.

No, first of all, if you really understand what I'm saying, you will not say this to anybody. Yeah, yeah, you see, because you will know that there is no point in speaking to somebody that doesn't exist. So who is it that you're speaking for becomes very clear. You're only speaking for your own ego and that doesn't exist either. So once this becomes very clear, what is the point? You know, you have to have a reason. You say what is the reason? So whether or not you discover the real purpose, the false purpose is seen of feeding the ego that doesn't exist. So why not start with what is there in front of you? You're seeing your own ego, you want to go around telling everybody how powerful this is, etc, etc. Clearly that means that you have not understood very well that there is nobody to tell. And that is why it is not the front and center of any religion. Because there is nobody to tell. The people who really understand it don't speak. There is nobody to tell. They understand that. It's very simple, isn't it? The actual truth doesn't speak. Yeah, because there is nothing to say. However, like you said, you can do whatever you want in your dream. So if you really want to kill somebody, if that's your choice of wasting your, what is called as conscious moments in unreality, that's your choice. You will have the experience of that society and all the rules. You said rules based universe. So you've created an idea where oh my God, I can go kill somebody. That's a bad thing. Therefore you will see the consequences. You have created the rule based universe. It doesn't mean that you will, you know, I mean everything, anything and everything is possible, of course, but what is the point? Because you've understood it.

You just said the truth can't be said. Is that why everything exists? I mean, if the truth can't be.

Said because it exists only in ignorance of the truth. Okay.

Wait, I was going to say something.

In other words, if everybody finds out and understands this thing, the world ends. You know, because the world is not.

Whenever you tell me this, I always wonder what the aliens do when they understand this.

Like there is no difference between aliens and you know, what understands it is not the body. The body has no understanding material, it is cells, matter. Matter is not able to understand anything. So whether the body is of an alien or a dog, or a monkey, or an animal of any other kind or human or anything, the understanding is never of the actual physical object, you know, the physical object has no consciousness.

Okay, okay, so here's the question now. Why is. It's a three part question. It's the same thing in three ways. Why is the creator dreaming? And why doesn't he have any control over himself? And why anything? I mean, if every. If he's dreaming, that's how everything comes into existence. Why anything? Nothing was pretty perfect. Why was there?

No thing is perfect. And what you perceive as imperfection is your imagination, which you are calling perception.

Oh, so if I stop imagining, I'll be perfect. I get it. But I'm not trying to be perfect.

The very I who's trying and not trying doesn't exist. There is nothing called perfection or imperfection. Both of this duality doesn't actually exist. It only exists in words. And if you pay attention to the words, you get confused because you think the words are real, but words are not real, like ghost. Ghost. The word is real. The concept it conjures up is also real to you, but it has no meaning in reality.

Yeah.

So all words are the same. All, All words are the same means the. They don't actually convey anything because the thing to be conveyed is the actual object. If I say mango, you will not have a mango. The mango will still remain a mango. You will just get an idea about it. You cannot eat that idea either. You will still be hungry. So you need the actual object. And the only truth is the actual object. Any words that you can say about it are not the reality of it.

So all the words, everything that is emerging is only emerging in the now. Otherwise there is nothing. And my question is about the now. Oh yeah. So if now is all that there is in everything, what is the nature of time? Like, what is, what is time?

Is it like a space memory time? Is memory time.

Is memory or is time being used to go through the memories?

Nothing is used by whom? Go where? Nothing is going anywhere. Nothing is going through anything. It's just a dream happening right now. And what you call time is your notion of experiencing the sequentiality of events which is creating your time.

Time seems like. It seems like it manifests something, right?

See, there are two kinds of time, you know. One is the psychological time, and one is what we are, I believe you may be trying to convey which is what is happening. What is happening in the actual experience is called time or life or existence itself. On the other hand, you have a psychological idea of time which is, you know, so many things happened and this happened, that happened, and all these Things. That second part is imagination. But if you don't say now or yesterday, tomorrow, like the cow is there, it's eating grass, you go and ask, what time is it? It's only experiencing what is there. It doesn't have a concept of past and future or now. So what you call now is based on the illusory idea that doesn't exist of past and future, which requires memory. So experience requires memory, what you call experience of this and that which creates sequentiality and creates the ego partial seeing. But if you see in reality what it is, nothing is there to see because you know what it is.

But still, like time seems to be like a flow. It doesn't seem to encompass everything. So how could time be the memory? Because wouldn't memory have all.

Memory is what you're storing based on perception. And based on that only you're asking the question of time. You know, like something has happened. If you. If you don't have that concept of something has happened, then this question of time itself doesn't arise, you know?

Yeah.

So memory is required. Something happening, perception, that false ignorance is the basis of time. Otherwise, where is the question of time? You know, Same as mango. Does the mango say it's a mango or you say it's a mango?

I say right.

Does time come and say, I am time, I am time, or do you say this is called time?

Oh, so time could be something much more. I'm just perceiving one part of it.

You're not actually understanding what is time, your conceptual understanding of time.

I thought that time is like a little scroller or like a microscope to view the entire infinite with. And it just.

There is nothing called time. Your time is imagined. Time happens in a dream only. Right. Is there a question of time outside a dream state or a waking state? No. So what is that? Time? Time and space are dimensions of perception, isn't it?

Yeah. Perception of your memory. Right. Dimensions of perception of your memory.

Right. So that's all. Where is the question of reality in that?

That's what I thought.

Yes. Everything is the past, isn't it? The light coming from the star is probably 2 light years, 10 light years or whatever. So it's taken years to get here, you know. So you're seeing something that's 10 years old. So if I see something on the street, it's about one micro, one million, one gazillionth of a second old, you know?

Yeah.

At any time, all I can perceive is the past. I cannot perceive the now. All you see is the past. That's it. Nothing else to discuss. I mean why would I discuss the past? You know.

With so much, with so much knowledge, can the creator do something?

There is no creator. That is another idea.

Only like usually like if I gain some knowledge, I go and implement it.

But so called illusion. No, no, no. It's illusion. There is no need for specific knowledge because that specific knowledge is illusion. No, just now we said perception creates the illusion. So you say I know knowledge. It's obviously a partial knowledge of nonsense only. Therefore such knowledge is called false knowledge. It's not real knowledge. The real knowledge does not be, is not needed because it is all there is.

So is life just me being perfect at times and then getting tangled up into some body and then being.

Not at all. Not at all. There has never been a body because it disappears, isn't it? Which body are you talking about?

Like this human body.

But this waking state disappears every few hours, isn't it?

Yeah.

So why are we discussing this? Why not the other waking states? Why not the other dream states? Why not talk about all the bodies? Why only this body?

Yeah, I'm talking about all the bodies only. No, See, once this body is gone, I will give nothing again. I won't be tangled up into thinking.

No, no, no. See first of all, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. See, illusion means it's not there even now. So once you know that this is itself a dream, is it actually there?

No.

So where is the question of body even now?

Only in the dream.

No, no. Now you are in the waking state. Where is the question of the body?

It's not there.

Only if you are able to very clearly see what is actually there will you be able to perceive the truth. If you perceive the unreality, you will see that there is a Rishabh and all these things happening there.

I've always. I thought that. That in the end if everything's gonna become nothing. Is everything like a proof of work for nothing? Like to show that nothing is real, everything has to happen. And oh yeah, my initial question.

Show to whom? Show to whom, sir?

Or to prove to own self that nothing is all there is, doesn't everything need to happen?

In contrast, it is independent. No. The whole happening is dependent on it. It is not the other way.

Got it?

Proof will not come from the objective state. The proof will come from within. Because when you wake up from the dream then you already know it was a dream. That knowledge was there after it ended, not in the dream.

That that's what. So if everything.

Listen. So no, no, listen. So whatever is existing at any point in time cannot give you the knowledge of reality. Because it's not there. It's an illusion. You know, however deep you go into it, it is still an illusion. However much it explains to you what it is, that itself is an illusion.

Yeah. Makes sense.

So to see things as they are, you just need to know what you are. That's it.

That is true.

Because without knowing the seer, the scene is being discussed. Not realizing that the self, the seen are the same. I'm seeing myself, am I not?

Yeah.

Therefore, which one is me? The one I see or the one that is seeing?

Does everything. What about So I am viewing myself through Rishabh. Does everything have a mind of its own? Is consciousness. What is mind?

Yes, mind is consciousness. Okay? When there is no everybody, there is only mind.

Does the by any chance, does the universal mind have a body?

The universe is the body and the mind.

I get it, I get it. I was just reading through this whole notion of heaven, hell, all that is just cool stuff made up, right?

Total nonsense for governance and not governance. It is just ignorance, that's all. No need to analyze it. That's it. There is no need to go further into the illusion. Simply analyzing it and getting feeling good about yourself is another ego only. So this is illusion, that's all. No more discussion about it. No more pontificating, justification. Going and teaching somebody, it's not there. We are talking about it because it was destined to be this way. We are working together and it was happening this way. That's it. It will happen for you same way. There's no need to go around trying to search for somebody to teach.

Yeah, yeah. I'm just glad then this idealization. I'm doing it at a young age, otherwise most people just call this stuff spirituality and philosophy and they expect you to do it once you're like 50 plus or 70 plus. And I've always told myself that all.

Those things, my friend, you've already done it, you know. In many, many, many, many past dreams. That's why you're here now. But yes, it is a fortunate existence for all of us. And definitely something which is the only goal of human existence. To realize your true nature and become one with what is.

Oh yeah, What. What happens once I. So once I die or once I come back to another body, do I need to go through the whole process of learning who I am again? Or can I at least have this knowledge forever now? Now that I know who I am.

It cannot revert back however, you will be repeatedly coming back for, you know, see, it can end now at least.

Do I have the permanent desire to be connected to the one always?

Yes, without a question. Without that we would not have met. This conversation would not be happening.

Really? A permanent desire.

Permanent desire.

Thank goodness.

Yes sir, it is very clear, you know, that is why individuals are meeting in that sense, you know, it's a one on one thing. It is not a lesson to be had in multiple people talking. Because words mean specifically what I say to you only and same. No, you cannot have the same experience. Same mango. 10 people eat. 10 people have 10 different experiences. A word spoken is meant for the listener, not for the public.

Word spoken. Yeah.

Because communication is not really happening there, you know, it is the reality there.

Communication. I realized what the difference between realizing and knowing stuff is that some. If I tell you something, you'll know it, but you only act on it once you realize it. It's the same as once you move your folders to the trash can in your computer. Even that the computer does not really realize the deletion of those files. But the second you empty the trash, then it really goes into the computer and it loses storage. The same way I can tell you that everything is unreal. Everything and you know it. But to realize it, you know, to empty the trash or to fully internalize it into your reality, you'll have to do it yourself. And that's an idealization, is only pointers to help you do that yourself.

I know.

Isn't that it? We can show you the path you have to walk in yourself.

We can show you the path that doesn't exist. You can see that you yourself don't exist and it ends right now. That's it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you said that exact thing to someone, he would just know what you said. He wouldn't understand what he said or realize.

That's why I said it is meant for you. If somebody listens to the podcast later, they will not understand it. You see, that's why the words are written so clearly in all the places, but nobody understands them.

Yeah, you need the mindset. You don't need the words.

Yes, you need the reality. So we are in the reality here because we are speaking from experience, describing what is. We're not talking about what somebody else said. That's the difference.

Do you hold these podcasts every week or do you do them every.

Unfortunately not. It's just something that happens when it happens. So last year we happened to do 12 or 13 or something. So we did like a season and we cut it or whatever. Then we did one this year so it's just like second one, this one for this year. So things just happen. I don't go around trying to make it happen or you know, any of those things. It's just a natural flow. It's happening. That's it.

Makes sense.

One can describe it, oh we did this, we did that. But it is only a illusory for chatting purposes, you know, it has no reality.

What is the most real things that I can do then?

Like first of all you need to understand who is that I who will do something?

I mean how does it matter who that I is? I'll anyways just do what Rishabh Sharma.

Can do because he's an illusion. The very eye doesn't exist. Therefore you're struggling to do this and that and try to understand and blah blah, blah. You're asking questions.

Yeah, you're right. If I know who I am, there'll be almost no effort.

Effort comes because of lack of understanding.

Yeah.

Driving a car takes effort during practice in the beginning, you know, Then it becomes effortless. What is the difference? The knowledge is the same but it has become experience.

Is it that I have just the kind of last question. I'll say then let's end this. Is it that I am an eternal really powerful being and everyone is actually stopping me from manifesting that in this reality. Like even myself, even people who are greedy, even my parents, if they wanted me to do something based on what I didn't want to, is everything stopping me from manifesting?

No, it is only the operation of knowledge. Whatever knowledge is there that is operating. That's it. There is no people, nobody to blame, nothing. It is a happening based on knowledge. Knowledge of any knowledge is false knowledge only. Therefore the dream happens based on whatever knowledge there is. So if your knowledge is full of false knowledge you will experience all kinds of turmoil.

When you say yeah, you're saying knowledge is operating. When you say you're aware of this knowledge, can you also say I am, I am this knowledge. Why should I say I'm aware of it?

Because you think you are a person.

Oh yeah, I'm not the knowledge. If I say I'm aware then I'm aware of everything around me, not just this. Yeah, that's a better state to be in. Okay, this is really cool stuff. I can't wait to implement it in the day.

There's no need to wait. There's no need to implement. Just relax. You need to go and relax. Now, just take it easy. Saturday. Go and do something else for an hour or two.

Yeah, sure.

If you think about it, it will become conceptual.

Yeah. If you think about it, it's just thoughts.

Right. So there's no need to think about it. All right. Then we talk next week, Bishop.

Then, yeah, let's talk next week.