iRealization - Season 01 Episode 08

Hey, guys. Good morning. Morning. Morning, babe.

Morning.

All good? Sam. Sam's on. I think he's on mute.

He's on mute.

How was your week, Dave? Oh, it was good.

Another eventful week here in the US and, you know, all kinds of external circumstances that, you know, are. Are interesting. It can be challenging, but, you know, good stuff. Progress is being made. Inner progress.

Yeah, definitely. Good indeed.

Sometimes interesting, though, that I don't know if this happens with you, but, you know, we get so passionate about what we do that, you know, the energy runs through you. Does this ever happen to you where the energy just runs through you so strongly that, you know, you just kind of get wired, right, for a while. Like, and for me, sometimes it'll happen where I'll get really passionate about something, get into, you know, an awesome conversation, and then it'll be like, you know, not just like an hour or two after that, where the high last. It's. I mean, it goes on for, like, you know, 12 hours, right? Which then can make me hard and all of that. So does that ever happen to you?

And if so, what do you do about it? Yeah, I mean, first you have to see, you know, why is it that it happens only sometimes and why it does not happen other times, you know, so what is it that's actually happening? What would you say it is? Why does that happen? What is actually happening?

It's a. It's a certain, like, excited state that occurs right now. Why does that excited state happen? You know, it's like the conversation that is being had in this movie that we are in becomes so engrossing and exciting, you know, that it's like.

So that that excitement itself, if you go deeper into it, what exactly is it when you say, I'm excited about oboe or I'm excited about awake, or I'm excited about my kids, or I'm excited about an event or some trip. What is it that you're really excited about?

Well, I mean, I suppose there's an answer in the. There's kind of two answers to that. There's the answer for me. There's an answer in the material world, right, that, okay, something cool is happening here in this illusion. Illusionary you know, kind of realm. And then there is something else, though, that is going on, like a rush, almost like a. A reconnection, you know, like a coming home, where it's. It's. I don't know, it's really strong right on the inside, where the energy is, like, from the inside out. Right.

I don't know.

How to describe it?

Yeah. See, the energy is typically for the excitement, you know, because you're expecting something regardless of whether it is so called material or inner or outer. It is an expectation of something that you're going to achieve. You're going to get something, you're going to be something, you're going to become xyz, which you're not right now. Otherwise where is the excitement to become something you're not? Yeah. So it is always a question of becoming, not a question of being. You know, it's always transformation, it's always change, it's always something else other than what is.

Right.

So at all times, if you see what is actually happening, it is simply the arisal of a memory. And that memory says, oh, wow, wouldn't that be good or wouldn't that be amazing? Because you have a fire imprint of something like that. And you have an idea about whether it's material progress, which is coming from all over the world and media and everybody says all these things, or even spiritual ideas which come from Vedas or here and there. And one has created these impressions and one has, has. Is imagining some sort of achievement or progress or something, you know? Yeah, yeah. So that's what it is. That's why it changes, you know. And then what is worse is, you see, what happens is you'll get excited. You'll be very excited. You'll, you know, two, three days or whatever, two hours or one week or whatever, 10 days, one month, whatever it is, but it doesn't stay, you know.

Yeah.

Because nothing can stay. Nothing stays. So what happens is, you'll say, oh, it's not working, it's not happening yet. Right. And you'll get discouraged. You'll be like, all right, fine, whatever, you know. So then afterwards something else will happen. Somebody will come and say, oh, this is such a great idea, Dave. What a great idea. This is great. Instantly you're energized, Right. One more week of excitement. Right. So it's about external people, it's about external expectations, your own ideas of what you will become, even helping others, you know? Yeah. If you have even the slightest doubt of what will happen to me in this whole process, you cannot help anybody, man. Yes, you're in trouble yourself. You can. Drowning man cannot save anyone. Yeah.

So then what to do in the moment, like, you know, you asked how was your week? You know, I had a couple of, a couple of days this week like that, right. Where, you know, that happened?

No, no, nothing. I'm just, I'm just making you Aware of the. Of the process. So this is the process. There's nothing to do, per se. This is the process. So what happens is you have to see that, oh, my own excitement and energy levels are fluctuating. And why are they fluctuating? They're fluctuating based on my expectation of what will happen when I do certain things. If I feel like I'm going to get suddenly successful, I'll be very excited. If I feel like, oh, it's going to be a slog, nothing's happening, it'll take me forever, then I'll not feel excited. So it's a pure expectation of outcome, Nothing to do with what you're actually doing, which is the extreme dissipation of creativity and effort. Because you're least bothered about the actual action, you're more interested in the outcome, which is purely imagined. Totally, yeah. I didn't mean to kind of say you should not feel up and down. You should. It happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, I get it.

But by being aware of it, you will realize that you are the source of energy. You know, the question of energy coming and going is not relevant. You're the very source. Everything comes from you. So how can something appear and disappear? And all those factors, the appearance and disappearance factors are of the temporary or of the phenomenal world only. And all of that is what changes all the time. That's never changing. I mean, that's never still. That's never, you know, static. It's always changing. It's. Nothing is permanent. If you say, look at the beautiful river or the sunset, and you turn around to your wife and say, hey, look at the beautiful sunset. Did you see that sunset? So beautiful, right? So exciting. But by the time you say it and she looks at it, what she sees and what you saw, is it not different? Right? Moment to moment, even a split second, nanosecond, it's different. It's decaying. The beautiful mango is decaying. The person is decaying. The tree is dying. Everything you see is dying. No. Where is life? In the dead. In the dead.

So overall, do you think everything is an unfolding or do you think everything is just coming to an end?

Something has to start for it to end. Where is the start? When you say end? There has to be a beginning, time. So there has to be a beginning of time for it to have an ending. Something cannot end if it never started, you know. So when you say time, what exactly I mean by time? You know, this has to become clear. And one can only examine time post Facts, which means you have to examine time after the timeline has ended. What does that mean? It means 5 billion years or 4 billion years of this universe. All the evolution, Big Bang, blah blah, blah. You can have a very detailed discussion about all this and about the origin of the universe and time and all that with some philosopher or a physicist or you know, somebody who knows inside a dream and will give you perfect answers and perfect, you know, timeline related questions. This happened, that happened, time this, that. But when you wake up, not a single instance has passed. What exactly is time? One has to see. Is not time the duration of expression? Is it not the duration of an idea being expressed?

So, so the time only is needed.

Space.

Yeah. Time only exists in imagination. Whenever you create, whenever you. Okay, yeah. So I just have a question. You said when you wake up to, you realize that there was no time. It was just, it was just an imagination. So what are we waking up to? Is there an answer to that?

Of course there is. You always wake up only to imagination, is it not?

So I'm gonna wake up to another imagination, is it not? There's always, it's not awakening, it's just.

So you have to see. What is this face? No, no, no, that is the point. Hold on a second. Very clearly and very important now. See, there is a sleep where there is no dream, no waking, nothing. Then there is a dream. Suddenly all the things are there, many things are happening. Then suddenly dream goes away, I'm back to sleep. Nothing is there. All the people, all the excitement, all the energy, Trump, Osama bin Laden, everything which you had a nightmare or happy dream, whatever, gone, disappeared. Not a single iota of thought. What happened to those people? How did the world disappear? Did they all die? What happened to that person I was talking to? Not a single iota of, you know, thought, even when you wake up. But you were totally engrossed in that dream before you woke up. You're like in there, you're doing things, you're running around, you're whatever, you know, like now, no different.

Yeah, yeah.

So then you wake up into this so called, you know, waking up. But now you realize that, oh, this one and the dream state are similar. So I know my sleep states, I know my waking state, which is in the dreaming. It happens. What you call waking is during the dream. You know.

What I call waking is during the dream. What do you mean?

Is it not? When you're dreaming and you wake up, you would have said, oh shit, I was there, I was doing all this. Is it not? During the Waking that you were doing all those things, you just didn't know it. That it was not waking, it was a dream.

Yeah, yeah.

Right. So what do you. Not kind of. It's exactly that you think you're maybe. Ahmed.

Ahmed the way. I mean, maybe another way to describe it. And this is a question, not a statement, right?

I mean, it's.

It's like the experience of the. What we're calling a dream. Right now when you lie in bed.

And go to, in quote, sleep. Right?

And that experience of that dream is very similar to the experience that, you know, we're having right now. It feels the same. Is that what you're saying?

In specific, you feel awake in your dreams?

You feel awake?

Yeah. Okay, Right. You get up and go around and do things as if you're awake in your dreams. Is it wrong? Yeah, you're right.

Awake in my door.

Right. So we are awake only in dreams, which happens during. Which happens during sleep. Is it not? So is it not that all three are happening right now?

Yeah.

Which one is reality? You see, that's the question.

No, the question is what is reality according to you? I mean, I could label any of them as reality.

Very good question. So let's define what is reality? What is real? How do you know something is real? You see, first of all, let us define. Otherwise you can never find reality. So the first question about reality is. Or the first characteristic of reality is reality can never change. If something is changing, you cannot say it's real. If I say this is reality and it changes tomorrow, can you say it's real? It's always changing. If I say this is reality and it became real yesterday or 1 million years ago, what was there before that this is not reality, then it changed. So reality can never change. Do you agree?

Yeah.

Second, reality has to be reality for everybody. It cannot be your reality that somebody else's reality, then somebody else is my reality. That's not reality. Reality means reality. Everybody has to agree and it is self evident that it is reality. There's no need for second party, third party explanation. When you come across reality, it becomes evident. Ah, this is a reality. Everybody knows it. Self evident, you see?

Yes.

These two things are absolutely critical, Which also has a corollary factor because it cannot change. It can have neither a beginning nor an ending. Therefore, it is what you call eternal. The word eternal becomes real only when we understand the notion of beginning and ending, which does not apply to the eternal. Yeah. So what is it in these three states that is real?

Anyone want to answer that? Because the answer seems quite clear to me.

Isn't it obvious?

Yeah, it's nothing.

What is that nothing? That nothing has to be understood, Because nothing is nothing. But no thing. But in no thing, still something is there that says there is nothing. The cognizance of it is there. The knowing of it is there. You see? Otherwise you cannot say there's nothing. So what is that which knows?

So why does reality have to be unchanging? You know.

If something changes, you say, today it's yellow, tomorrow it's green. Then how is it real? Simply, it changes all the time. How can I rely on it as being consistently the same and exactly what it is? See, reality means it is. It is what it is. It never changes. It is reality one billion years ago. Tomorrow, 1000 billion years later. It cannot change. Because otherwise you cannot call it real. It's just something that's changing. Another one. Some thousand things change. What about it? But real means.

So like within reality, we can't say that an aspect of reality is that it is constant, that reality itself is constantly changing.

So you may say constant change is reality. One could say that. Then again, one asks, what is it that causes change and change? Against what? How do you know something is changing? Because there has to be some basis. That basis cannot change. This absolute zero is always absolute zero. Temperature may be different all the time, but without that reference to zero, the word temperature and number has no meaning. So that baseline is the absolute reality against which change is perceived. Otherwise, how will you know something is changing?

Right.

So what is that background against which all things change? Change itself is possible as a concept against the idea of no change, you know? Otherwise, what is change? Change means the opposite of no change. So what is change? It is a variation of something against the background backdrop of something that doesn't change, right? Yeah. So what is that backdoor reality? Yes. That backdrop itself is reality which never changes. Everything else changes. The world changes, people change, things change, time changes, everything changes. Nothing is static in the universe. And yet change is the only permanent. So there is a higher order that runs through things. You see, gravity is always 9.8 meters per second square. Tomorrow also it will be the same. Even though there is gravity today, gravity itself doesn't change. So there is an overall higher order that maintains everything in the universe. The tree will grow up to be a big tree. Then there will free fruits. If it's a pear tree, it will not generate jamuns or mangoes. It will generate only pears. And then the seed will fall another Pear tree will start. It can look in different ways. The tree can be this, you know, bent and you know, different kinds of shapes. There's that. But nobody comes and says, what kind of stupid tree is this? Right? What kind of dumb tree is this? It's a wrong tree, right? It should be disqualified as from being a tree, right? Nobody says that. Nobody comes and says, hey, this dog is barking the wrong way. It should not bark like this. It should bark a different way. Whatever way they bark, whatever way tree grows, that's the way. It's just a tree. It's just a dog. But if a human being comes and says something, no, no, no, you cannot do this way. You cannot do that way. Thousand things. Why is that? Questions to ponder, eh? Hey, Sridhar. Welcome man. Welcome to the calls. So Sam, any thoughts? No, I'm listening.

It seems. It seems that we are so strongly woven into nothing that. I mean, if we're woven into nothing, then we're part of nothing. What is. What is this nothing? I understand that it's not zero. I understand that it's not zero.

It's probably zero ness. It is nothingness.

What do you mean? What's the difference?

Nothing is an object. Nothingness is all abstract concepts of nothing. If I have 10 oranges and I give all away, then I have no oranges, right? How do I know that I have no oranges?

Because you can see. You can perceive it.

Yeah. So perception, Is it not that perception is required for you to know something?

Yeah.

So in all this change this, that, blah, blah, blah, the one thing we have not talked about is the perception of that itself. For all this conversation to be perception has to be. Otherwise, what will you talk about? Right?

Yeah.

So how did he come.

Okay, never mind.

Meaning awareness, right?

You can call it many things, but I'm simply referring to the actual experience of you perceiving something. For example, if you want to discuss the Trump campaign or Biden campaign and all that, you must be able to perceive those things happening. So perception is required. Nobody sees the perception part. They only see the scene part. What is perceived, they don't see the perception part.

How come we only have these five senses and how did we come across these? Because it seems like I didn't make these senses. So I'm being forced to imagine something because I can only see this using my eyes.

Is it not so? Is it not the very limited dream we are referring to?

Any idea why it's so limited and why there's an unfolding going on instead.

Of just nothing existing this question is for who? For whom is this question?

I don't know, just why is there.

An existence of everything? This question arises from an individual. Why do I exist? Otherwise the question doesn't arise, you know? Yeah, right. So that's the question. The question is why does something exist? Or why does anything exist? Or why does it this way or that way, or any question. Right. That question comes from where does it not come from the past? You don't know to ask this question unless you have some idea about yourself and about the so called reality and all that. And that that knowledge is causing some doubts and is questioning based on the false ideas. Right? So the very questioning is coming from a point of seeing unclearly. Because if you see clearly, can there be any questions?

No.

Who will ask the question? When you realize nothingness, there is nothing to ask. There's nobody to ask it, Because nothing and everything is the same, you see? So is it about expansion of this.

Perception, expansion of awareness?

Awareness cannot change. Reality never changes. No expansion, no contraction, no change. All of contraction, expansion and all the delusions is only of the changing the phenomenal world. Something can change, you know. Expanding or contracting is only of matter.

When. When I become aware of something, or when awareness goes on to become aware of something, where does it store that information? Is there a processing box to that awareness?

Is there a process?

Consciousness, awareness?

It's called memory. The faculty of memory is where knowledge is stored. That's why we say, you know. Don't you have past knowledge? Aren't you dealing with the past? Your knowledge is memory. That's where you store it. So knowledge is stored memory, stored memory, is it not? When you say I know something, it's because you found it somewhere, read it somewhere. Now you're recollecting it from memory and you're telling the answer no. Yeah, so that's the memory process. The faculty of memory is used to store ideas, information, impressions and all that. And it's an involuntary process. You walk through the market and somebody, you know, almost steps on your foot or whatever by mistake, you did not seek it, but you will remember it. It's not a voluntary process, you know, an involuntary unaware process. Because in awareness, what will happen? See, without awareness, there's something will happen. Like he stepped on your foot. Suddenly there was a small, hey, my coffee fell down my white shirt, blah, blah, blah. All that happened, right? Like we had discussed long time ago. I don't think you were on the call or not, but maybe Sam and I were talking about an accident on the Road, you know, who did what, what happened, blah, blah, blah. But in awareness, nothing has happened, right? Where is the question of happening? That fellow was not. He was walking, he had no idea it happened by mistake. He was thinking something else which was caused by something else. Everything has a cause, you know, the previous cause, the previous cause. Where is the question of hey, what happened? Why is this happening and all that. Where is that question coming from? It can only arise from partial knowledge. So.

From partial knowledge, that means that was awareness the creator of everything or did it?

Is it just there, is it not? Is it not? Is there anything apart from awareness and perception? Perception being partial only. And it happens because of the lack of awareness. If you're not aware, you see partially. If you're aware, you don't see anything at all. Because they cannot see anything. In pure light, in darkness, you cannot see anything. If I turn on the floodlights and I just completely blind everything out, can you see anything? So nothing is visible in pure light. Nothing is visible in pure darkness. Anything that's visible is only an effect of partial light. And in that partial knowledge you will never be complete. You will never find the answer there.

So to look for answers, you're saying to look for answers, look at. Try to find the real thing.

To look for answers first find out who is the one who is asking the question.

Yeah, I was thinking about it the other day that though you know how you say my body, my mind, the second you say my body and my mind, it you should have made. You should have understood that you're neither.

Of them very simple, is it? Not Exactly. So therefore anything, any knowledge, can it be you? No, no. Anything that comes up, can anything be you?

No. So that means I'm not part of everything.

Wait, what?

I had this realization the other day also that it's. It's quite highly possible that I am not part of everything. Because to experience everything I have to be nothing. I can't be anything inside the universe to experience it.

Again, again. Pause, pause, pause. Who is this I who is asking this question? Has to be extremely clearly seen. Okay, this question is coming from Rishabh. You know, am I this? Am I that? That is based on the partial knowledge is asking if I am everything. Partial knowledge is never everything because partial knowledge is an illusion. But what you are requires no knowledge. You. But it requires knowledge. Yeah, it's like I am a man, you know, what is the. What is the need to know that all the time? I don't have to say I'm a man, I'm a man. I'm a man. I am a man. Finished. There's no question about it, right? The knowledge about it is irrelevant. The isness, the I am ness of it is I am a man. It is, is it not? There's nothing to like, find out or express or there's no doubts. There's no like. I don't have to remind myself, I don't forget it, right? That is called reality, right? My belief in something. I know the earth is flat. I walk on it every day. I know it. I don't have to remind myself, what is that? Somebody comes and says it's round, you can look at him like a fool. Yeah, right? Because this is knowing. So this knowing comes from somewhere and you become that knowing. You know, I am this person, I am that person and all that. Whereas now we clearly see that all this knowledge is partial and you cannot be anything which you can point out to, right? If you say my body, you know you're not the body. If I say my thoughts, my heart, my soul, my whatever, can I be those things? If I say God, can I be God? I've created it. I've created a separation. So to see clearly what is the situation, that itself is the release.

Question. There's an option on this call for go faster, goes slower.

You can change team time however you like. Now, if.

If my. What I call time is just one perception of what real time is or is basically, or I'm just creating time, why can't I create time in however way I want?

Why is it only who is that I that will collect this time like I can.

I can write an essay.

Who is that I. No, no, hold on now. You are bringing. Bringing in free will. I will do this, I will do that. Yeah, but are you free will? Do you have free will?

If I can choose to think and do.

What have you chosen in life? You were born to some parents that you did not choose.

Well, I chose to join this call, didn't I?

Only if you had the option to. If you hadn't met me, how would you have joined this call?

I had the small free will of not joining this call today, whether there was an option or not.

No, you had that option of not joining also as a predetermined concept to you. The fact that you are where you are in life right now has the whole past is encapsulated in the moment. Right now you are no different from the past moment. All of your choices are dependent on the previous moment and so on till you were born. Is it not. If you were not born in the place you were born, nothing would have been the same.

Yeah.

So where is the free will?

I've been thinking a lot about this and maybe I, I can offer where my latest thinking is on this and then Almaty can enhance maybe. Richard answering. So, yes, you chose to be, you chose, let's say that for a moment to be on this call.

But then.

You know, the question is, you know what I think what Amit is saying is that in the end that decision was made, right? So it's really just an illusion that it was a preconceived, it was a predetermined outcome and you just had the illusion that, you know, you were really entertaining this other choice that you would stay in bed or go to Starbucks.

Or do something else. Think about it like a dream, you know, if the whole thing is realized to be a dream when you wake up, who was the doer of all those actions and who were the people that you were talking to? Who were they and were they free will? Were they all acting in free. As free agents? Were you acting as a free agent in the dream or was the dream just unfolding and you were watching it like a movie and you woke up and said, oh, I witnessed a dream, but something I saw.

You know. You know those points in a dream when you're dreaming at night and sometimes in life you might have seen that, oh shit, I can suddenly control my dream. I am suddenly aware in this dream.

It's.

I'm lucid dreaming. So how did I go from a dream unfolding to me having free will in the dream?

Very good question. So the question there is, you see, Rishabh is a character in the dream and has no power. As do all characters have zero power because they are being dreamt.

Yeah, yeah.

So where is the power of all this coming from? Birds are flying in the dream, you know, there is a party happening, you're there, all your friends are there, family is there, you know, you're 50 years old, you have a beautiful family, full. All the. Every generation has come there outside in the park, right? Birds are flying. Where is all that coming from?

From my imagination. Where is all that come from?

Now the question is, you're asking, hey, Rishabh wants to change this dream. It's not possible, you know, because Richab is not the dreamer. Only the dreamer can dream, you see.

Yeah.

The dreamt character is not the dreamer, it is the dreamt character. In effect, it is not there. And this is known to you when you wake up and the entire dream collapses. It disappears. And you say, okay, no problem. I'm going off to get a coffee. You don't give a shit about everybody who just died in the dream. The entire dimension disappeared because you created it. You withdrew it back into yourself, and you just went along your merry way.

So is the lucid dream itself an illusion?

The aspect of lucidity, the very fact that it's a dream means it's an illusion, right? Dream means illusion. No, it's a dream, not real.

Is there free will outside the dream, like when you wake up?

Anything happening in the dream is an unfolding. There is no free will here but God's will, which people say God. They don't know what it is, but God's will. It's not your will, it's God's will. Whatever happens will happen. God knows whatever you know. So whose will is it? You see, this has to become clear, then, this question of lucid dreaming and all that will no longer arise. I guess the reason we believe this is reality is because we have been in a dream for so long that we belong to it. Yes. Many, many, many millions of lifetimes. All of you? All of us. Every single species. 8.4 million species that are recognized as what is visible. All of us have gone through all of them many times to your point. You can only know something if you are it. And we are everything. That's the only way of knowledge. Knowledge means knowing. Knowing has to have a common base for us to have common knowledge or any kind of shared knowing, which means consciousness. So the whole basis is consciousness. The substrate of knowledge is consciousness. The stuff of mind is consciousness, knowledge and thought and memory and all of that. Intellect is all stuff of mind. But these are all objects. You see, intellect is also an object because it's just a bunch of ideas and theories and past experiences and all that. All of these are objects?

Yeah, all of these are aspects of the mind. Are we just. Are we just looking into one of the thoughts in our mind? Is that what's happening with everything?

Seems like it's simply a projection, like a dream. What is a dream? You project your own ideas into a universe. You create yourself. You create the universe. You create a world. You create all the situations you create all the people you create the happiness, sadness. You create war. You create famine. You create the whole thing in your dream. And you say, oh, I had very nice ice cream when you woke up. If you ask the questions from the perspective of the dreamer, then you will ask only the questions that are about the dream. So this process becomes not of the dream but of the process of dreaming.

So like okay, when I wake up from my dream, I have a really good life to go back to. Instead of a life where there were nightmares and buildings falling and stuff in my dream. When I wake up from this dream, life's dream, is there something great to wake up to? I won't even be Rishabh if I wake up from this dream, right?

What will I wake up to?

Nothing.

Is it not? That's the nothing we're talking about.

That's kind of boring, isn't it? Isn't everything more interesting than just nothingness?

I mean, you have to understand what is nothingness. You see, nothingness is what the word nothingness means only to the mind. Something it means lack of ideas and concepts. But to the mind that knows nothing and is only of limited knowledge, what does it know about nothing or everything? It has no conception of this also. There are people in. It is not possible for the mind to understand nothing or everything. It's not possible because its mind is limited knowledge. Knowledge is limited because it based on the substrate of consciousness. Consciousness being all there is, any knowledge is partial. It can definitely not have the knowledge of nothingness or fullness. Because those two things are not knowledge. Emptiness and fullness are actual things. They're not ideas. They're real things. And you don't need knowledge for that. You are that. You can be that you are all of it. And when that idea of this and that disappears, what you are is everything.

And once that idea disappears, is that a. Is that a permanent state?

It's not a state anymore. All states are of the mind. Knowledge and mind are states, you know, conscious states, states of consciousness, altered state, this state, that state. These are all states. You have drugs, you go into a different state. So these are all states. Dream is a state. Dream state, waking state, sleeping state, you know, these are all states of mind. What I'm talking about is beyond states, beyond mind, no more states. Just what is.

Is. Is everything emerging from nothingness? Or does everything and nothingness exist simultaneously and we can become aware of both?

All there is is awareness. There is nobody who will become aware of anything. Whatever you become aware of will become knowledge and you will become small and partial. So there is no need to become aware of anything. If you become aware of something that is nothing but consciousness. Because consciousness requires content, it needs to be of something. The minute you say aware of, even if you say aware of awareness, it's consciousness and you are creating your own Limitation. Consciousness is the limit, you see.

Do you think it's. Don't you think it's weird that there's just this consciousness that is looking to.

Become aware of everything? Why no, it's not looking to become aware of anything. Consciousness is the wheeling factor. And when it disappears, what is is awareness. There is no desire in awareness. It has no desire to become this or become that. It never becomes anything. It's awareness. The becoming factor is only of consciousness. The changing factor is only of content. Right.

And is there a way. Can, can you argue what is. Can we argue what is the first thing that awareness became aware of?

Okay, Only in self. All there is is awareness. So there is nothing apart from awareness. And the delusion is that there are all these different things. And that delusion arises because of perception. And perception is nothing but previous and past seeing. When seeing is mixed up with past, it produces the so called present and the so called future. So because you've created time.

So it seems like all this knowledge is quite liberating because you're telling us what reality is. In that sense, perception is just limited knowledge. But even after you telling me this, I seem to be kind of landlocked in my own illusions. I am not liberated. And it seems like. And I've lost that question.

You have to see. Yeah, that question. You have to see who is asking that question. Who will be liberated? Only Rishabh the dream character wants liberation. And only Rishabh the dream character will get so called liberation. Both of which are totally unreal. Because the dream character was never there. I get it. It's very simple. If you make it complex, you will have a lot of issues. If you just stay with just what I said, now it's over.

You know, the strange thing about it that I always wonder is it really is very simple. But yet it eludes.

It alludes.

Yeah.

Like the reason for that is they want something, they're expecting something. Expectation you want to do over movement, you know, so you'll have your dream of over movement. If you don't want to do it, how will you have the dream for over movement?

Yeah, I think what you said is on the dot. I think a lot of people have expectations from what they think God is and what they think the end will be. And in their head they have this image, this beautiful image of what the heaven is and what the end was going to be. And that's why they never find it. Because it's just some illusion they cooked up again in their head.

Exactly. If you try mental Thing you can.

Find it pretty quick.

Quickly. Yeah. So if you look. That's why I tell you all the time, you know, Dharma and all we talk about, say, boss, all these Dharma. See, Buddha is fine. Buddha was there. You know, he was there. He became enlightened. He told everybody. Great, wonderful. But Buddhism, very big problem. So Dharma of Dharma is there. The world is there. Higher order is there. When you plant a tree, it becomes a. It will grow and give you fruits. That's the Dharma. Nature has. Dharma. Dharma is nature. No different. The very what is that itself is Dharma. It is the nature of nature. Such is nature. This is nature. What else is to say about it? It is nature. It's God's will, you know, but that God is not understood. And it becomes complicated. On the other hand, you see what is there. Finished.

I have a question. When you and Dev mention Dharma a lot, and even Swadharma, but what is exactly Dharma? And why did he call nature?

No, we. We, we. Actually, I play the joke with Dev on that one. I'm happy and fully supportive of it. In the business of oboe movement, as much as I use these words, they are mine. And of course, Davis Free and will of course, express it differently. But I see things as they are. There is a business part. There is a community part. There is all these different parts. And then he talks about Dharma because it's intended to communicate the goodness factor, which is, of course, a bastardization of it. But that's okay. People want it. People want to hear it. People want to. They get excited. What he said earlier, he gets energized by it. People get energized. That's okay. It's a marketing tactic. Yeah. So we should not get confused ourselves, you see, we shouldn't become like, oh, I'm doing Dharma. And all that will become a whole problem. You're right.

But no, I was just still curious to. I was just wondering, because I've heard before also that you can ask.

He's saying, you know, Dharma is everybody should live peacefully together and be compassionate. Okay. So conscious capitalism. Yeah. Which is 100 good. Right. We don't need more than you need. And the fact greed factor causes all this accumulation. And therefore, you then become fearful of losing it. And then all the good and bad happens in the world. So it's a good thought, you know, moving us towards the light, saying, boss, you don't need so much and help everybody who have less than you.

So I have a question. So now that. So if. Okay, let's. Let's assume that there's a God. And God comes to you and asks you, ask you for a wish. Here's your what is your most hearted wish? I know it's not world peace. It's going to be something about the self. And I'll urge you to make it something about the self. So what kind of wish will you ask God? Because it seems like you figured out what nothing is, what reality is.

And we figured out that. Yeah. So the first question I'll ask you is why you need to create one imaginary God and ask them something.

Because I can't fulfill my vision as I created.

So this is a whole problem you are creating now. The very perpetuation of the problem. You have a dream, you want something because you saw it somewhere else. Right now you want it. Now you are praying to one imaginary God to hope that you get it. What is actually happening is you are meditating on it. You're really focused on it. You're like, I want it, I want it, I want it. It's all you think about, you see? And the more you focus and think about it, the more you become single minded about it, the quicker it will happen. You think that if you want to be an Olympic athlete, you cannot boss 85 year old woman can run and win the marathon. Anything is possible. You just have to decide. And it's totally effortless. But the fact is you don't want it. You want something else. And that keeps changing. You'll get this suddenly, you will not want it immediately, you'll want the next thing. So where is the peace? Where is the happiness that you want? That you're all, all of this is for some reason, right? Why you want this and that and that ultimately it's because you want to be happy, is it not? Yeah, but you don't know what is happiness.

Yeah.

So you will not find it and you'll keep running.

Or you could say, maybe happiness is dependent on something that is impermanent.

And if you call that happiness, then it is simply running behind things. And the minute you get something, it is no longer a desire, you know? So therefore, immediately the next desire comes up instantly.

So what is the alternative? So if you want to make two types of people, one who run behind things, what is the alternative to them?

There is no changing people. There is no. There is no changing dharma. There is no changing nature. Nature is nature. We all want to talk at the end of the day. We all run after our evolution at the end of the day. So. So that's what. So the thing is you don't have to create any people or different types of people or any of those things. These calls are not to change, you know, anybody. These calls are to change oneself. And only oneself needs to be changed. That's it. Because there is nobody there. You want to do lucid dreaming. The direct contact you have with the dreamer is not through anybody. It's through you only. In fact, the whole illusion is there are other people.

Wouldn't that. Wouldn't the illusion be free will? Because if we knew that this is.

A movie, free will also requires an agent. You know, free agent. Who is that person who you're saying is free will Compared to who? There are other people, other things. The whole universe has been created the minute you say free will. Because free will is of who? An individual. The minute you create an individual, all other individuals come into being. Because it's dual, you know? If I say happiness, instantly there is sadness. Otherwise how will I know there is happiness? The minute I say nightmare, opposite is also there. Otherwise how will I know the difference? So when you say good, you create the bad. Is it? Whereas everything is God's will, right? So where is the question of good or bad? Is it not another delusion.

Like so? The same way, if everything is created, its opposite is nothing. Is it possible that there's an opposite to awareness also?

Yes. Ignorance. Ignore the fact that is the root of the word ignorance. Latin root means to ignore the truth.

So the highest. So the highest level. I can either choose to be aware and I can also choose to be ignorant. It's not just awareness, right?

The minute you choose, you're purely ignorant, Right? Otherwise, who will choose?

Yeah.

So no need to choose. Why choose? Why bother? Total effortlessness, is it not? The whole universe has been created. By whom? In your dream, you only. No. Where is the effort involved?

Yeah, where is the effort involved?

The effort factor requires an individual, you know, Who will do the effort. Somebody who wants some outcome will do effort. And outcome can only be expected if you have partial knowledge or ignorance in you.

Does awareness have to exert any kind of force to be aware of something? Or does it just happen instantaneously?

Awareness is the only independent entity in the universe because all there is is aware. Nothing else is required for awareness. Awareness is required for everything else.

So then, if you go back to Rishon's earlier comment about he chose, you know, to join this call, how does that choice happen then?

Effortlessly, like a dream. The whole dream is happening. Did he choose to meet me? Did we choose to meet each other? What effort did we do to meet all of us individually? Did it not just happen? Yeah. Is it not true for every single thing in life? You walk down the street, that Starbucks is there. How did it happen? It was there when you wanted coffee. Should I find out who built it and all these things? Or should I not bother just drink the coffee and move on Because I wanted coffee. How much will I need to know? You see, The answer is it is my knowledge has no bearing on it. So once you realize that your knowledge has no bearing on it, what is the point in knowledge? You stop seeking knowledge. The minute you stop seeking knowledge, all knowledge arises as whatever you want. How did all these ideas for everything come about? Definitely not an individual. No individual can think of anything because we are not in control of our thoughts. Can you decide what you are going to think five minutes from now? You can barely control your thoughts right now.

Yeah.

Then how can you claim any ideas? Is it not giant sets of. You see the world, you know, you look outside the window, you see 7, 8 billion people or minds and all these ideas are emanating out and everybody thinks they are thinking it. Is it not a dream? Dream state. And after a few hours this entire dream state disappears. Another one may be there, you may have a nice dream. Not a nice dream. Whatever. You will decide later. Not during the dream. During the dream you'll be too busy. You won't even know it's a dream.

Throughout this life, as I create stuff and as life passes, is there what am I doing? Am I creating a self inside?

You're dreaming. No. You're imagining.

Will the dream stop after death? Or will I just become part of the universe and then become human again and dream again?

That question is again from Rishabh. Who thought he is born and will die. You see.

Who thought he is.

Somebody comes to you in the dream and says hey, I'm very scared of death. If you know it's a dream, what will you tell them?

I'll tell them. Don't be scared.

Why will you say that? What? It's a dream and then what is the point of it being a dream? Why you should not be scared?

Oh it's unreal.

Because you were not born. So if you're not born you cannot die. No. Yeah.

But like even if I realize that if I die and I reincarnate I won't have this knowledge, I'll again be this ignorant.

This is exactly the point. This has to end right now. If you create time, you will be back in Samsara. Why are you Creating time. What we are deciding and pointing out is you are not Rishabh. So where is the question of reincarnation?

Well, there was one incarnation, right? I'm Rishabh.

You're calling it incarnation? No. But it's only a dream, is it not?

Yeah.

So where is the question of reincarnation? In the dream, somebody comes and says, hey, everything reincarnates. This happens. That happens. Or is it any. Is any of it true? No.

But then the dream will keep coming back to me. I don't even know if.

Only in partial knowledge are things seen in pure darkness. Nothing is seen in impure light. Nothing can be seen, is it not?

So I have a question. So haven't we just discussed full knowledge? I mean, none of us seem to.

You have discussed full knowledge. No, no, no, no, no. All knowledge is partial knowledge, my friend. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Because only experience is full knowledge. Otherwise it's on the point.

There is nothing called knowledge. That knowledge is the very illusion what you're discussing full knowledge. I have full knowledge. Boom. Extreme illusion.

Yeah.

Okay, so now clearly you have to see what is the situation. And in that seeing, everything is clear. That's all. Yeah.

If you have full knowledge, that's such an illusion.

Yes. Otherwise you. So that is why. Right. That is why there is nobody called enlightened and. No, nobody say. I say Gyana Yogi, just to elicit a response. You know, just for fun. Right. Because there is nothing called yoga. The cosmic joke is that yoga is not needed. Yoga actually means union of oneself with the. You know, the over self or the universal self. You know, that's what yoga means. But the joke is, yoga is not possible. There is no separation at all. You imagine a separation, then you run around multiple lifetimes trying to rejoin it. No, you do yoga to rejoin, but it's not required. Because the yoga can only be done by the imagined partial entity who imagines the full entity.

Yeah.

In knowledge only. But why bother with knowledge? We are saying again and again. So when there is no knowledge, what is there? Yes.

Wait, is nothingness also knowledge, is it not?

If you say nothingness, how will you know it? The minute you say I just. There is nothingness here. That becomes knowledge. Instinct.

So everything is knowledge and then there's awareness of this knowledge.

Perfect. And now if I remove the awareness, the knowledge portion, what is there?

Just the awareness part of him.

Only the awareness part of it. That's it.

And okay, when you say I'm gonna remove nothingness, and then awareness is all there's left. How Would you remove nothingness?

You realize it's a knowledge. Oh, okay, I guess you have to remove yourself from the equation. You remove all knowledge. So if you remove all knowledge, you realize everything is knowledge. Something remains. It cannot be removed. That's something which can never be removed. That has to be meditated upon.

Is there an end game to the meditation.

When nothing can be removed beyond that? That experience will tell you what it is. And that experience cannot be described. If I describe it, it is another knowledge only. And it will create another knowledge and ideas and all that. So that experience has no description. It is the actual thing. It is what it is. It is awareness, it is intelligence, it is power, it is love, it is compassion, it is creativity, it is experience. It is all the five senses, it is memory, it is the universe. It is every being in existence. It is history, it is past, future, it is everything.

Yeah, yeah.

It is life itself. It is existence itself. It is the truth. It is reality. It is what you are.

Life.

Yeah.

You said, you said that it's real.

It's.

It's what life. It is, Is. Yes, it's what existence is. So what do you mean? It's life. I thought this is life. The life is this limited thing that's human, limited thing that humans do.

No, no, life is not nothing to do with humans. You know, like, oh yeah, life is life. Everything is life. You see, the whole thing is life.

Got it?

The whole thing is existence itself. You understand?

So wouldn't existence nothing. Would an existence have to exist before awareness can exist?

How will you know that existence exists? Awareness is the basis. You see, without awareness, there cannot be anything. When you say something exists that is only in memory because the minute you describe it as what you're saying it exists, you know, but that description is only gone already. That object or, you know, event or whatever was, it is gone. So what you're describing is the past. So when you say existence, it is only of the past. So beyond non existence, time is required when you say anything. Yes. If you say something, then it requires time. Boom. So you've created time. Now in this whole, you know, non time factor timelessness that you are, you've now created a projection and you've created time and space also because otherwise again, you need to have a voluminous experience of duration.

Yeah, yeah.

So that is what we are creating time and space. And where is that time and space being created instantly, you know, it's being created in the mind only because you know that this tree which you're seeing in Front of you is a projection in your mind actually. Right. So all knowledge is in the mind only. So what you see is mind. It's a translation of mind, I guess. Yeah, it is a projection. Projection. And once we realize that, then there is no proof that there is anything outside. And we come back to the dream factor and we say, I see this is what is going on. Then you meditate on this fact and then you see what happens.

Is the mind good enough to tell me what's going on?

The mind is the only thing that tells you anything.

I mean, I'm saying we can upgrade the mind and then you could meditate better.

Meditation is the absence of mind. Using the mind, all you have is the mind. Use the mind to still the mind. Use the mind to kill the mind, which is what is meant by kill the Buddha. Because you. The self is the problem. You know, I want to be meditating, I want to be liberated. Who is that? I.

Yeah, makes sense. Is there, is there real perfection anywhere in the universe?

There is only perfection. What says there is no perfection or something needs to be improved is your idea of it.

Oh, so everything is perfect and then from my partial knowledge it becomes imperfect, is it not?

Yep. So to realize that this samsara can be dropped off and what remains is nirvana is liberation.

Do you think all the top executives out there in tech know all this? Operate under a questionable thing?

I think they do. I think they do.

And they all just lie to us as if we're just humans.

100% guarantee that they do not know anything.

Are you serious?

100%. I can write it and sign it for you right now.

I was really expecting at least they would know.

Is it because they're running after decadence or alone? Why do you say America is the place in the dual world, the history of civilizations and just the way this so called dream has unfolded. There are parts of the universe, of the earth, that have certain magnetic centers. There's that so many things, you know, and if you look at the civilizations and the manifestations of all that, the glory and you know, all the glory of India, for example, is in its spiritual glory and its spiritual heritage because it brings man to liberation and it brings peace on us. Whereas the west is an opposite. There's a dual. On one side is spiritual, the other side is material. So the reason why so called the biggest economy in the world is in such a shit show is because of the materialism. Everybody wants to be the most biggest. Bill Gates and Trump and you know, Zuckerberg, who doesn't you know, so when everybody is wanting to do that for themselves, where is the question of community and harmony and all those things?

You, You've seen that Silicon Valley show where they have the stereotype?

I've not watched it. I've been.

You might have. You might have heard about the monk in the CEO's room and how he gives advice to him about how you should be this, how you should be that. And the CEO also goes to Tibet, you know, to take a break, and then he meditates there. And that's what made me think that maybe these guys are secretly doing all this.

And they know all this, this.

They just think everything knowing.

All of this is written in books for the last many, many, many centuries and millennia. You know, it's not new. This knowledge is there everywhere. Every supposedly secret knowledge, sacred knowledge. Everybody knows it now. It's there in popular science. But what is the use of.

I mean, maybe, maybe I see no use, but if I had like 100 billion, I could see a lot of use of spirituality.

No, you and I and I are definitely different. We are going to take this money and apply it to. Because we're not interested in the money. We're interested in the material to change the other material. It is just material process here. It is not a question of getting attached to it at all. Because it's not, you know, what it is. You see, not knowing what it is, one believes it's real. If you think it is real, there is no question of helping anybody.

Yeah. Yeah, you're right.

So that is the ignorance factor. And that is the nature of ignorance. The dharma of ignorance is to be this way. All right, guys, this was a really good call. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Thanks so much. Glad you could join. Yeah, it was nice listening to all things. This will be on episode eight very shortly. So. Okay, cool. Great, guys. Have a lovely day. The rest of your weekend, wherever you are. Thank you.

Thank you.

Bye. Bye.