iRealization - Season 01 Episode 03

Hey.

All right.

There we go.

Hey.

How's it going?

I'm well. How are you? I'm all right.

All right. I just finished meditating with Sarah.

Feeling good.

I'm trying to. I want to slow down this weekend so I can attend to all the stuff that I've been trying to do. This work week has really been running me ragged, and I. I wanted to look at all that stuff for the. The channel and try to play with the software, but I just haven't had the band.

Yeah.

How about yourself?

Same. Yeah. Brandon, every day, one has to, you know, be the same.

I need to check out that podcast that you put up there. I was looking. Or it's like a. That's just not podcast.

Look at.

You're having a meeting with a couple people. I was looking at it.

Yeah. So we're creating this show called the Woke vc. Doing things differently about telling people the truth and how to actually be that truth in action. You know, there are two things which emerges, you know, one is the knowledge of something. Right. And the other is just the knowledge of the knowledge, which is not real knowledge. It is just the awareness of the knowledge, the knowing of the knowledge. Knowing. Both of them are always there, you know, the second derivative is always forgotten because it's actually the first derivative. You know.

We were talking about that yesterday. No, Knowing if it known, who knows and what knows, all that stuff. That seems to be the topic.

The thing is, we are. You know, the word who is very confusing. Yes. Because who is always a foreign individual, you know?

Right, right. It is, it is, it is. It is, I think, confusing because when you're identified with your. Your thoughts, that pointer of who's looking good stuck. Because you say the mind says it already knows, even if you insist it doesn't.

It does.

And it's like, oh, I know me and that.

I'm gonna go into a bit of a depth today with you, so let's talk about that. You said whenever you know, you think something, this is what the mind says. Now, how do you know when there is a thought?

You just know it's there. You know, it's.

See, how do you know it's a memory. No, no. How do you know one thought has ended, another thought has begun.

I don't know. I don't think about it. It's all one.

One thought.

See? No, no, see, there is a process of becoming unaware. That is in thinking. You know, thinking requires the loss of awareness.

Yes.

And it becomes consciousness. You see, consciousness is of something you have to be Conscious of something, Right? Right. Means there is content there. There is something there to be conscious of, which is what you call the thought. The thought is when you are conscious of something, That's what is a thought. Right? If you don't have any thoughts, you're not conscious of anything. Right. You're walking through a marketplace and you farmers market, you don't know all the things you've seen there. You have not kept track of it, you have not been conscious of it. You just walked through it. You're just aware, okay, there's a market there, everything is there. If there is anything needed, consciousness will arise and that thing will be involved there. And everything regarding that will appear to happen there. But if that thought doesn't arise for some reason, you don't see any interest in any of those things, or that you don't see any interest, means no thought has arised. Arisen about it. About those things. For you to say, oh, I got interested, you know, you have to understand what is a thought and what is that happening there. You understand? There is no I there until the thought arises.

I've been thinking. It's like the thought itself includes the identification. It comes out.

Exactly. That's the point. So if there is no thought, then what is there? Me.

Well, the real me. All of everything.

What is that everything? Because the minute you say everything, that is the consciousness saying everything, right?

Yeah.

Because consciousness is of something. It is of objects. Consciousness means objects, concepts, Right? The knowledge of consciousness is the conceptual understanding and all that stuff. The intellect is what you call it. The ideas that you store about it, the memories, then the reasoning and all that stuff. That is what it is. You're talking about being conscious of something. Like if you lose consciousness, you will not have anything there. But when you come back from consciousness, you'll be like, oh my God, I was unconscious. I fainted. How do you know you fainted? Because there is a gap. You see that gap? You will not be able to perceive the gap unless you were there to perceive it, right? Yeah. Means how do you know there was a gap? You see, because you were not conscious, therefore there was a gap. Like in sleep, you went to sleep, there's a gap. You wouldn't know there was sleep unless you were conscious of being unconscious.

So I must have been aware of the unconsciousness on some level, otherwise it would.

Now, this sentence, you have to ask yourself, who is that I there? Who is aware when the waking begins or the dreaming begins?

Amit do. Is it not that thoughts will simply arise?

Yes.

No, okay, great. So if that's the case. And so thoughts will arise.

Hey, Brandon, can you mute a little bit? Sorry.

Do they not arise from the. The self when. Right, so.

Meaning.

Because you would ask the question. What was the question you asked that basically took out the I ness of it.

Same thing. Who is it that wants to know?

It's just the self. And that's the same as this, that self that is. It's you, me, it, them, that it's the self.

No, no. See, all these, you, me, it, them, everything together constitutes another idea of what is it to be everything.

Does it or.

See, first of all, there is no division there. So we imagine there to be 20 things which are not real. And we take those 20 things and we say all of them together is the original thing. Is it possible? No, because that original thing is already there as it is. And the 20 things were imagined. They're not there.

I agree.

Right.

But the thoughts will arise anyways.

Yes, thoughts will arise without your involvement because.

Such a pain in the ass. No, I'm kidding.

Yes, it is a pain in the ass. You have to see very, very carefully when you say there is a pain in the ass. Actually what happens is you're an awareness which is nothing. You're aware of nothing in particular. Peace. Which is our natural state. Then a thought arises.

Go ahead.

Wait, wait. Then a thought arises, but you don't know it until you have become aware of the thought being arisen. Otherwise you would have been thinking already about it.

Yes.

Means there is a becoming process, you see?

I think I do.

There is a being which has nothing to do with anything, it is simply aware.

Yes.

Of everything. Whatever happens, it's aware. Otherwise you wouldn't know it happened. Then if in awareness you might become more interested, so to speak, because that so called something has triggered memories and associations which releases those memories back onto the surface, which you call thoughts.

So.

But whose thought?

In my answer to that one, like, I don't.

It's just thought. You see, if you just see it.

As thought or should be owned.

Yes, that's the thing. So when we talk about identification, that what is identification has to be seen. What is it not I am identifying with? It means who is that I that is identifying?

Why does it have to be identified as one question? The next question is how is it? And because I, I'm familiar with this, I like to imagine. No, I, I understand. And, and familiar with not necessarily owning every thought and whatnot and allowing and not. Not like thoughts arise. Okay, great. What I. Then Am wondering is how is it that in, in this conversation you, you are able to speak intelligently of it and when I sit with no thoughts, it really does make me kind of moronic. You know what I'm saying? Like, how does that even.

No, see, it matters. It doesn't matter in the end. It matters because you're asking the question. Right? Right. So you are, you want to know. So it matters. That's all. In the moment, something arose for a reason. It. It satisfies itself. If you go to the bathroom, there is no question about why you went, how you went, why didn't you go this way, that way, what it would have been better if I went in the other one and all these things, because it's just a moment. It's. It has to. That came up, you took care of it, it's finished. There's no second thought about it.

Yes.

The reflective consciousness is not involving itself in that process.

Yes.

Now when you say, when I sit there and I. When we talk like this, there is no problem. But when you sit later on and meditate upon it, there is a problem.

Well, no, because. No, because I won't have. No, no, it won't be a problem for me personally meditating on it alone. It doesn't bother me. It's when I have to actually interact or even discuss it with anyone, then it becomes a problem because I'm like, I can't explain that and I don't even care to. Does that make sense?

Yes. That is all. All mind you see, whether you will or will not, whether this will be this way or that way. These are all ideas of what is happening.

Yes. And. And if they are not now, which now is action, because only action is. Is real. If it's a thought, it's not like really real.

Real.

Okay, so then I'm, you know, I'm truly wondering.

I wouldn't say that. Don't bring in the word real. You see, first of all, let's just keep it at the level of thought. Okay. There is thought, whether it's real or not. Let us leave that for a minute. There is all. There is thought. And thought appears and you are taken away from awareness. That is what it means to have a thought.

Yes. Yes. Thank you. Because when there is no thought, there is only awareness.

Yes.

And that's all the time. Yes.

And that can never be lost. So when you see the thought. And when you see the thought, we lose awareness of this awareness, actually, because you're more aware of the thought itself. So you become conscious of the thought and you become. And consciousness is the becoming process, you see?

Yes.

Consciousness is itself the becoming. The dream is itself the becoming. The dream is the transformation. The process is the dream.

Okay, Going back to where it's there is awareness and thoughts arise. Is it not only like thoughts arise, but that only takes one quote, unquote, one away from awareness if they follow the thought. No.

Hundred percent. The problem is that it happens unawares. You will not know that it has been happening. Suddenly. You will realize, oh, my God, I've been thinking like a day.

Yes, with practice, though, it does lessen. I mean, it does 100%.

That is the only thing called practice. The practice is it is not to not think. You cannot not think because you're not the one who's thinking in the first place. But it is to see the thoughts arising and realize that you have nothing to do with it. Then it automatically stops. You see, it's like you get a craving for smoking only until you. You have that craving. After that, it's not there. How it disappears.

It does disappear. Cravings do disappear. If you sit your butt straight on through them. If you're like, okay, I crave this, but I'm gonna sit right here until it's gone. They. They absolutely disappear.

No, no. For example, even, even if, like, you eat something, you know, you're delicious, you eat, you love mango. You eat like so much mango, you feel sick of it.

You and your mangoes, right?

You. You become sick of it, right? You become everything. Too much. You've been mangoed out, right? So at that point, there is absolutely zero craving for mango. Even though nothing has changed in the mango.

You're saying, I see, I see.

So the whole thing is one has to do with oneself, only.

The one self that doesn't exist. Is that what you're saying?

Because, like, in a dream, you see, who is the one experiencing that?

Who's the one experiencing a dream?

Yes.

The one who thinks that. That they're real. Then that self.

And that was not there, right? Yeah. So when you. When you. When you wake up, you realize that was not there.

Right?

And the experiences was the only thing there. The one who experienced it was unreal. Right? But the experience was real. When it was happening, Who was it happening to? Was the unreal part.

I will.

I would like to chime in about dreams. I've noticed lately that there is a difference between. Sometimes I can shed my personhood, basically who I think I am, and then I'm just dreaming. The dream appears, but it's not appearing to me. And there is a. There is a difference there where it.

Is not that it is not appearing to you, it is appearing to you. That's all. It is just an appearance. Like a dream is an appearance, you see?

Yes, but now it's not appearing, Brandon, like I'm not hap. Brandon's not dreaming. There is just a dream that's happening. It's like there's. I don't know how to explain that.

But yes, that is exactly the point I'm making, that this is just happening. It is not happening to me. Me means there is no individual me here. It is happening as a totality. It is all happening at once, right there. There is no division in what is happening. It is not serially happening to you, then to next, then to next person, or it is not happening individually to everybody. The whole thing is simply happening at the same time, indivisibly, right? The whole moment is a single moment. Each moment is full, right? If you say it either way, you can say it. Whether there is one moment which compasses everything, or every moment is perfect and same thing, right? There's nothing actually there. Because when you say something is there, it's a partial knowledge. Otherwise actually everything is there. The totality. So the minute you say this or that, it is a partial knowledge, right? It requires you to break it up into pieces and say these are the two things inside this and that's what happened. One caused the other. But in fact the whole thing happened as a single thing. There was never an A and a B. That A and a B is an imagined concept, cause and effect. Like if an accident happens on the street and somebody comes and asks, hey, you know, who's at fault? That question, I mean, can there be an answer? Everything just happened. You would have to be born for you to have had that accident today. So your parents are to blame. Wow. Is it not? Or their parents and their parents and all the way up to the big bang. Consciousness itself is the ultimate cause. You see, the whole reason for this entire appearance is consciousness. If there was no consciousness now, nothing would appear to you. What you call mind and all that. And within that mind, our so called consciousness. They are the senses. The senses are there different types of things you can be conscious of. Then all of it is mixed into one giant thing you call the sixth sense, which is the mind or consciousness, which is confusion, you see, because the A and the B, the cause and the effect is imaginary. How can you, you know, the whole thing has the totality of it as the Reason, you know, but the mind confuses.

I'll say. Isn't the cause and effect. Isn't that just the way that we. We've been taught to think? So we're looking at it that way, and we keep expecting that answer. There's an answer that. Oh, there is.

What is that? Mind. You know, the mind, the knowing. You know, the wanting to know.

Yes.

You know, the wanting to know requires a reason. Why did it happen? Why is it like this? Why is it like that? Okay. Because it creates the it. You see, it's like looking at a painting where there is a horse being beaten by the owner. You know, there's a painting and it's really whipping the horse. And you're like telling, why is this guy whipping the horse? It's unacceptable. I mean, look at the horse, how sad it looks. And, you know, all these things, it's not there. There's just a painting. Nothing. There's no horse, no person, nothing. And without all of those dots there, you couldn't have the conversation. Painting, light and sound. You see? I see. The whole thing is a single story, right? It's running as a single indivisible story. Every character has done some. Something has happened, right? So it's all one giant unfolding, right. It couldn't have happened any other way because of the previous instinct. Means this whole thing is operating based on the past.

So it's grasping, right? It's trying.

There's.

That's the part where you're trying to claim the experience, right?

Now in this, we are aware now of the grasping. Now we see what is the meaning of that grasping. When I say I want to know, first of all, as we have discussed, I want to know some partial knowledge about some partial. Partial piece of this totality. And who wants to know is another partiality. You understand?

Yes.

So partial. Partial knowledge wants to know more partial knowledge and basically partial knowledge being illusory because there is no such thing. One illusion is chasing another illusion and is arguing with the other illusion. And all this stuff is happening. That's called consciousness or confusion.

Makes a lot of sense when you frame it that way. Right? Even the confusion is just another. Another thought that's coming up and contesting.

Other than thought. There is no confusion.

Yeah.

The thought is the confusion.

Does that come first? Yeah, like that's. That whole. All knowledge is false.

So when you.

Even when you even construct the thought, it's already wrong.

Because basis of thought is there, you see? What is the basis of thought? The adjunct of the thought is the I thought, you know, I am going to think or I know. Who wants to know? You see, I want to know only is the answer. I want to know then that knowing is captured as memory and ideas and image. And then that I perpetuates itself as partial knowledge.

You're like really hitting it today. That's really cool. I can see that. Well, it is seen.

I still. Yes, it is seen. It is seen. There is only seeing, you know, What remains is seeing, you know, you cannot take away the seeing. But seeing what? The minute you say I see something, that is consciousness only because it's conscious of something which actually is partial. So the ultimate seeing is simply seeing the seeing itself. That's when it ends, you know? Yeah.

Once. Once you see, when you truly see, when it's completely. I don't want to say grass, but it's more met then I guess it takes care of itself. Right? Is that what you're saying?

Of course. Because there is no individual doer you see at all. Never was. Never ever, ever was. All effortless is made by the partiality in the search for the totality. Not knowing that the partiality is imagined. There is only totality.

This is that dream you're always talking about. So even when we're awake, there's a dream character that's operating and running around believing in themselves. Yes.

So what does that to do with me.

Tick?

See, when you see character, you are again in the consciousness world. How do you know there is a dream? The minute you say dream, that is the false knowledge. Minute you say waking, that is the false knowledge. The minute you say mind or consciousness itself is the false knowledge. The minute you say awareness itself is false knowledge.

Is that because at that point you're trying to grasp, they're trying to.

No, because the minute you try to say something, the minute that something is said is what? It's partial knowledge, right? Yes. So knowledge is never real and consciousness is knowledge. Yes.

It's like trying to.

Yes, but where does consciousness arise? You see. How do you know you have consciousness?

I don't know that one.

You don't need to know that. Right. Because the knowing is the knowledge. The fact that there is knowledge itself is awareness of it. Otherwise you. You see?

Yes.

So that is the dream arising without any doership, without any, you know, material. It simply arises in your consciousness, you say. But that word confuses. Actually, what arises is the entirety. Right. In your own being. It arises in your dream state. You can see it in your being. The world arises, Is it not? In my Being right. Without my being there, or without your being there, can there be something?

No.

Right. That is all. Without my being, there can be nothing. Finished. Everything is in my being. Your being.

And the awareness that it's unprompted, it just is. There's nothing I have to do to make that happen. In fact, there's. I'm not doing anything.

Yes. That is the ultimate, what we call beyond, you see, it is intelligence itself. Pure intelligence or awareness or joy or truth or bliss or eternity or eternal or, you know, all those things are aspects of it. Power, knowledge, omniscience, omnipotence, all that stuff are aspects of it. Why you see it in the dream you've created the rivers, mountains, you know, Trump you created. No, in the dream, yes, it. Whatever you want. Omnipotence, omniscience, you, knowing is all there is.

I said it's like the eye trying to look at itself. It's just.

It doesn't care what it says. And that's the thing. I cannot see itself, you know, so the sun, which is responsible for all life. And in the daytime, everything is very, very hot. So it's scorching. And at night, moonlight shines, so it cools everything. The balance, night and dark, day and night, all the things. Cycle of life. Everything happens right. Because of the sun. Do you agree?

Yeah, absolutely.

But if you ask the sun, what is this night and day and what is this life and all that, what will be the answer of the sun? Being the sun? Huh?

I was gonna say, I don't know.

No. Being the sun and the cause of seeing, it will not be able to see night and day at all.

Oh, yeah. Because it's the.

The cause cannot see its effect. And the effect cannot see its cause because they are both imagined, divided entities. So. Point is, when the eye tries to see itself and it realizes it cannot, what happens next?

It keeps looking, probably. Oh, when it realizes it can't, it stops, right?

That's the end.

Is that why they say you have to keep looking until you give up, keep seeking until you. You can't.

You have to find out. No, not all you have to. That you itself is not there. Who will keep seeking? You know it's not. There is no time here. You are creating the time. You're the one creating. I will find out someday. And all. I will keep seeking till I realize you're creating that which is not there.

Did you go away?

No, I'm here.

I'm here.

Right.

Anybody else on the call? Still. Then I joined. I saw it Earlier.

He's still there.

Yeah, yeah.

And I'm making notes.

Making notes.

Yeah. I think it's already. I think 300, 200 words. I don't know.

This doesn't count words.

So N is. Are you in the slack chat?

No, I don't know. Okay. Not on that one.

Okay.

Okay.

I have a quick question.

Can we.

Can we go over that mango thing again with. Let me find it. What was the context? Yeah, so like we were. We were talking now. Illusion fighting with another illusion. I didn't get that part. And also you. You told, right at one point that you eat so much mango that you lose.

Interested in mango briefly. You love mangoes so much, you're searching for them night and day and you're always thinking about it. Then you finally get one whole bucket. You eat like 20 mangoes because you're so greedy about them. And then you finish that and then you're so sick of it right away. Just like you want to like never see a mango again. You think, what is?

What is. What has this example to do with the conversation we are having today?

Because you wanted the mango. That's a thought. You don't want to see it again instantly is also a thought. Both of which you believe equally.

Okay? Double standards, yes.

Not double standards. There is no double standards here. There is only a single standard at any moment. That is the truth. That's all. If you retain it, then you create all these problems. Double standard. There's that. Why should I not have. Why should I have any standard? I am what I am. Finished. Okay.

Makes more sense now.

I have no standpoints because there is nothing to compare to. You see, that is called individual. You see, the real individual is the indivisible part of the whole. That is what it really means. It actually means whole, only. It's individual.

There's something that's been swirling around in me. I've been trying to put it into words. I can see it, but I can't phrase it. But maybe you can speak to this. I feel like the question creates the problem, right?

Not the question, you see, the questioner. Who is the questioner? Questions are natural, you know, because of the mind. You see, Questions arise. But to whom? Whom are they arising to? You see, the one who wants to know, who is that. Another.

It's just another thought, right?

That's the end. Stop right there. That's all. All there are is thoughts, right? Otherwise you wouldn't know that there is mind. So when you say mind, what you actually mean are thoughts. So there is Nothing called mind. All right, now, there are thoughts. You call them consciousness. This. That is it. Not all thoughts. Movement of consciousness is the thought process. And whatever is being said is consciousness. So there is consciousness and there is where consciousness came from. That's all. And consciousness appears and disappears like dreaming. Is consciousness waking? Is consciousness falling asleep is not, you know, getting. You fall down faint. It's not. So consciousness appears and disappears. And inside that, we talk about all the things. But that's like a painting being talked about inside that we're saying this horse actually should run away from this owner and then go and become like a black beauty. And by itself. And then it should have a beautiful, you know, meadows. It should run there freely. I mean, all this creation, you know, are also called as imagination. Because otherwise it's just a bunch of color, you know, on a canvas with different shades. And all that is there in your mind. You're creating a horse. Where is the horse? It's just small color. Then you understand? Yes.

There is the painting.

And then when an accident happens in the street, there is no need to look for a cause there, you see? Because no event has occurred, no individual thing has happened. The totality is doing everything at once, Is it not?

Yes.

So that false knowledge which keeps arising, saying, this happened, that happened, I experienced this. All are just nonsensical thoughts, you see? Yes. So freedom from thoughts. That's what you're seeking. That's what is meditation.

Yes. I want to be free.

Freedom. No, no, no. Free from thoughts. Now you've understood that you have to be free from thoughts. Now is there any need to be free from thoughts?

No.

So what's the problem?

Just like that. Same thing with the question.

Simple. It's over. Right now. Finished. There is no tomorrow. There is never anything now. Because that's all right. You realize that all our thoughts only. That's it. What else? Nothing to worry now. Not a single thing because all is thought. That's it. That's all right.

That's my mind. I get it.

Yeah.

Well, I. Yeah.

That is what it means. When the eye realizes that it cannot see itself, there is no need. The seeing is there. That's all finished. Follow means the totality is there. Actually, it is there. No need to search for it, no need to conceptualize it. Just it's right there. It's all. All of it. Is that only finished?

Say less, see more.

Who is it that will see or say? That is the thing. The question itself doesn't arise, you see?

Yes, it could arise.

It doesn't happen to you eventually it will not arise. After a while the craving does not arise, you know, once you realize it's not something you really want or get or eventually that is that fact, you know. So you have to accept the fact. The mind accepts it eventually. It's a fact, that's all. There's nothing to do about it. And that realization is the thing.

Just a quick question. That realization is the thing. What is the thing here.

Brandon? What is the thing, my friend?

Wait, can you say the question again, please?

So he said that, you know, if you are. That you. If you realize that you know that it is not something you want a grave and your mind will accept it. So you won't be looking for anything, right? Cause or anything you will see the. You know, you will see everything as it is. And he said that is the thing. What is the thing here? That you know, what is the thing?

Like we to be able to control the mind, you know? Okay. Because you're not able to see things as they are. Why? Because you're seeing things as the mind sees them. You know, mind is seeing it based on what it's past experiences. Otherwise there is nothing called mind. You know, mind is based on thoughts. Thoughts is mind. So as we said earlier, the word mind has no meaning. It is simply thoughts, all the thoughts that arise. So thought arises based on memory and past experiences and limited experiences.

Ah yes, past and limited. Yes, yes, yes.

Because naturally it is limited. The minute you are experiencing something there you don't. You cannot experience the totality because you have created a duality in order to experience it, right? You have created yourself and the other experience happens only then. That's the kind of experience we are talking about right now. Where it is imagined to come from objects. So for that to happen, there has to be multiple objects. Otherwise there is nothing to imagine. In fact, experience itself will not be known, you know, because the experience being known as something is based on past only. Otherwise you will not know that, oh, I'm feeling hot. Because hot. How do you know you're feeling hot? Based on the past experience of the temperature as well as what you call hot. So both memory and terminology are required, right? Plus you are required as a separate entity that will feel hot. Otherwise there is nobody there. So in other words, like in a corporate code, you're writing this dot or self, you know, dot. Who is it? The referencing pointer. Itself, itself. Right, right. So we are trying to determine how this is happening. It means what? Reality, the universe. How is it appearing and how is it Disappearing in just a few hours every day. And another universe appears and disappears. You see? Yes, yes, you call it dreaming, waking and all that, but that is based on past knowledge and ideas which have. Nobody has experienced a dream in the waking state. Right now we are talking about dream and sleep. In this right now, you go talk to anybody. You cannot talk to anybody who can speak of the experience of sleep or dreaming right now. Because they are not in that state. They can only speak of the memory of it. You know? You understand? You cannot eat the mango here. That's what it is. So it's too late. It's already in the waking state, so why bother? That's the thing. No need. Just see what it is. Once you see what it is, everything is as it is. So what is it that we are talking about here? We are talking about how to see things as they are, How to see reality.

It just makes me. I don't have anything to say.

I second you.

Yeah, it's like I could. Sure, I could. I could let my mind go and I could spin it up and I could ask some questions. I could pick some stuff apart. But all of that seems like a detraction from what we're trying to do.

So.

There'S more in the seeing than there is in the question or the trying to see.

Okay, so we'll wrap up in couple minutes.

You're a busy man.

Again, that word busy is not applicable. I don't feel busy. See, that's the thing. There is no effort. The effort can only come to an individual. You know, what is effort? One has to find out exactly that word effort, because they're busy. And tiredness. And how do you do. All of this is only to do with that. What is that people call tiredness, you know, because of the effort. Tiring. If you feel tired, you know, you know, you get tired. People get tired, right? Because effort. Because they are putting in effort. What is that effort? Now, you have seen fully that none of this is actually there. This, that, and the other. So what is that effort? Exactly. We have to answer that question next time. You have to tell me what is effort?

Okay, I'll sit on it.

You have to answer the question, what is effort?

Yes.

All right, guys.

Thanks, man. It was great. I can't wait to see you next time.

Talk to you soon.