iRealization - Season 01 Episode 12

Hey.

Good morning. Happy Diwali.

Happy Diwali.

Yes. How's it going?

Very good. Yeah, like crazy shit's going on. Yep. So how was the week? What's new?

Yeah, I was involved in some. A few odd jobs.

So.

Yeah, my previous roommate shifted out and we were looking for a new roommate. We got one. So that was happening. My passport, I have to renew.

I did that.

So all these odd jobs I just finished in this week completely. Just since I was just doing odd jobs, I was like, let's finish everything now. So I don't have anything later. At least not in mid November, not in Diwali, not in December when everybody's in a kind of like a holiday mood. Nobody wants to work. I just wrapped up all those things.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, I'll get a new passport next week, I guess.

That's good. Yeah.

I was thinking that just. I was. I woke up to a brilliant sunrise today. The whole bedroom was entirely red, like brilliant red crimson.

So amazing.

And I've just been awake.

Same. I had a brilliant awakening today.

A similar one. Like a sunrise or much more on the space.

No, mine was very different. Very different. I had a very cool thing today morning where, you know how you can plug into the. To the. To the dream consciousness or to the waking state consciousness.

Okay.

Because the whole thing is a stream of information, you know, so there was a. The whole thing where, you know, in sleep or in dream or in waking, all three states merge.

Oh. Oh, yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I know what you mean. Yeah.

Yeah. So that happens a lot actually, even in waking state. And that is the true state of reality where it tells you all the information that we have discussed. You know, where does this information come out of and how do we know it to be true? That's already known. You know, that's why it's called a revelation. Not a sign. That state of knowledge is not a knowledge. It's not. It's not really knowledge as you know, it is so called truth. Without any knowledge there, as we've discussed, it is a state of pure knowing. You understand? There's nobody to know there. No thoughts, nothing. And yet there is perfect knowledge.

Wow. Yeah. I don't think I've been there.

Then it's not. I mean, there is nowhere to be. It will happen automatically. That is what it is. You know.

The fullness and the nothingness.

I guess the actual thing. So these fullness, nothingness, these are all words. And based on conceptual understanding, one tries to express what it might be. But whatever it might Be is never the thing because it is a, you know, reflection. You know, it is not the thing in a reflection. You can never find the actual thing. It's a mirror. You'll never find the actual thing in the mirror. You know, even if you see it perfectly, it is just a reflection, the.

Reflection at the end of the day.

So it's not real. What is real is the thing that reflects. The reflection is not the real part. Even though you say, oh, that is what it is, it is actually not it. That is what it appears to be. You got it. So the question is, what produces the image and the reflection? You need a mirror as well as an image. To see something, right? Yep. Or particularly to see yourself. If you want to see something else, you don't need a mirror. But if you want to see yourself, you need a mirror. You see? And then what you see there, you say, oh, that is me. But it's not you.

It's a reflection.

So to correct the nose or the hair or whatever, there's no point in correcting the mirror. Because it's a reflection. There's Edward. He's joining us to the new guy. Oh. So that's the thing, you know, it's not possible to correct it there. There is nothing there to correct. It's a reflection. So to correct it, you will. You'll comb your hair. You know, you don't comb the hair of the. In the mirror, you comb your own hair. And then in the mirror, it sees that it's combing its hair, and you're like, okay, good. It looks good. You're not saying that that fellow combed his hair. Yeah. You know, it's a mirror. Mirror means reflection. Hey, Edward. Good morning.

Good morning.

Edward, meet Sam. Sam, Edward. Morning.

Hey, nice picture.

Been on these calls for a while, and pretty much from the very beginning, I would say no. Sam. Yeah. Episode one.

Episode one.

Glass here. Sam is one of our lead designers at Awake, and as we have discovered, he's just a lead. He's not a lead designer. He's a lead at Awake. He's not even the lead. He's nothing at Awake, which means he's everything at Awake, doing as it comes. Yes. So, yeah, man. Edward. Sam, maybe you introduce yourself to Edward, tell him your little story of our, you know, last few weeks and months. Edwards, also a similar. Similarly kindred spirit and has, you know, come into our field of consciousness.

So when I. When I came here in a week, I had absolutely no clue. I was just informed that these guys need a UX designer So I came here and I have been doing UX designing and graphic for quite a while. And then I made a myth. And then I saw the work. Then I saw the scope of the work. I didn't understand a few projects at first because it was all a concentric circle inside a concentric circle like a Milky Way. Zooming in, zooming in, zooming in right down to the iris of your pupil and so many networks, right? So I started work. I gathered on what I knew and I started working on that. Then I had a couple of conversations with Amit and then I realized that everything that I have understood is the surface. But to be a great UI or UX designer, Amit fed me the knowledge of the deeper layer that lies underneath all these market networks that, that governs the entire psychology of, I guess, humanity and how we all look at things, how we all perceive things. And then he said that we are gonna have a call on weekends, which is the I realizations now. Mostly like spiritual calls or like stuff like Sadhguru says. I was quite aware of it and I didn't shun away the idea. I'm like, okay, let's do this. I want to know more about this company anyway. I want to know more about this Amit guy. So then we began and some of the concepts that were introduced to me about the. How the world, entire world is nothing but a dream, a drama, and we are letting it play ourselves in it. And if we really want to escape it, even if we cannot, what is the true awakening of it. And this has been the crux of all these calls. So each one of these calls, Amit used to introduce an analogy, something one of it as cause and effect and how everything is not what it seems, how effect does not come after cause, how cause is created after the effect and how we give meanings, how we add labels to stuff. So yeah, it was. It's quite a lot to explain in a. In an introduction, but if you stick around, you will know the real depth of how important it is to know this science or this fact, the real grounded fact of all things. So, yeah.

Oh, wow, Sam, that was very well said. I can't, you know. Yeah, very good, very good. So we are actually Edward as you know. You know, Edward knows this. I mean, it was well sconced in the whole thing as well. So he comes from the awakened, you know, side of things as well. But just to be, you know, we are using it in a practical way. You know, there is no, like there are two things, right. I think I Mentioned to you or maybe I mentioned to somebody else. Once that full realization occurs, there are two. There is no path. There are no path ever. But from the perspective of the world, you will see two types of people. The first is the one that doesn't do anything because there's nothing to do. All the sages will just be in their thing and they are, you know, sustaining the world. But they don't appear to do anything because it's not being done with their bodies, you know, because they merge their consciousness into the actual thing. Right. So they're sustaining the world, but people appear. They. From a distance, they appear like they do nothing. The second are people who appear to do a lot, but in fact they do also nothing, you know, so that also is the same. So whichever way you go, both are same. There's nothing going on at the same time. There is a need, you know, wind is required, fire is required, rain is required. All the things are required. So this is also required. And therefore it happens. For us, it's very practical. Living where we live, doing what we do, playing the roles that we were given in life. Playing the role means what? It's a game, it's a play. So you play the role. Otherwise there's nothing to do. You know, you can go off and do whatever you want. You can be a junglee, live without any clothes somewhere, but that's not society. So if you want to live in society, society is a convention, you know, you have to be in conventional, otherwise people will think you're not in society. It's not social, it's not this, it's not that. All ideas. But for harmonious existence you have to, you know, wear clothes and pretend to be a person. But you don't really have to do it. It's the same as knowing that you are a man. You don't have to remind yourself. No. So that remembrance is in the way of it because you keep remembering wrong things. Mostly it is me. I am a so and so. That is the biggest label. Yeah.

The very first call where you debunked the fact that when I said that I am a graphic designer.

No. That was the first conversation we had. Yes. So Edward, what's new buddy on your end? Tell us something.

Oh, just did a fair amount of overtime at work for a presentation.

Yeah.

And physically I've been so. I've pancreatitis and I probably now have chronic pancreatitis. So just sitting with physical pains in the body.

Mm hmm. Are you taking any treatments for it?

The, the treatment is to not eat and not drink. The pancreas settles down. I haven't got so bad as that. I needed that yet. But I'm trying to find the right specialist to go to. To. To get better advice. My current.

Yeah.

Primary care physician. I'm not trusting his advice.

Yeah.

And other than that, building a house. Gonna move at the end of the year.

Oh, it's done then.

Almost. Almost.

Very cool.

28Th of December. It's in Texas.

Nice.

Everything kind of changes at that inflection point for the year.

Context.

Which means new associations arising.

Yep, 100%.

Can I ask a question?

Yeah.

So there was something Sam said in his summary that I kind of fixated on, which is the idea of escaping the dream. I don't know that anything escapes. Curious as to that. Framing.

Yeah, the framing could have been words, but it's. It's the escaping of the false. You don't have to escape what is not there. You know, there's no question of escape because it's not there. There is a question of escaping it. Simply realize it's not there.

That's all.

There's simply no question about it. You see, there are two ways, Edward. People talk about, you know, going through each thing and addressing each thing. That ar and going through your whole. There's no end. It is an imagination. This happened, that happened. This happened, that happened. I'm like this, I'm like that. It's millions of years of this. What about it? Nothing simple. The whole thing ends right away. There's no need to go into each thing because each thing, explanation is also in consciousness. And when we say escape, it's not really the word. Escape is not the thing. It is the trap. You know, bondage is there. So you're saying liberation. Liberation means escape. Right to freedom. Freeing yourself from being trapped is the opposite of, you know, that situation. So we're using those words. It's not actually escaping. It is seeing the reality of what is actually there and no longer being trapped by what was not ever there. That word escape or freedom or liberation or moksha or nirvana or whatever is a dual word. And it means that the opposite was perceived, even though neither was there. Right. The word escape has no meaning because nobody escapes. Nobody was there to be trapped in the first place. So I would. I would.

I guess in my framing, I'd probably characterize it as shedding narrative.

Who will shed the narrative? You know, first of all, somebody has to have a narrative to shed it. The very shedder is the narrative. Shedding the narrative is the Narrative, how will you shed it?

You just see that it's no longer applicable.

That's all. It's instant, you see? And when you say it's no longer applicable, it has to end right away. Simply saying it's not applicable, not applicable, and going on with it is a suffering. You have to see clearly that it's in fact not applicable and then stop it, because the stopping is automatic, you know, Otherwise you'll not be able to stop it. You'll simply say, it's not real, it's not real, and keep suffering. You know, that's what most people do. That's called escape. They're like, oh, this is not real. This is not real. Simply saying it like a parrot has no meaning, you know, one has to realize it. That has the actual thing inside. Because what is said and done and feel and expressed and even sensations and all that stuff is nonsense, right? Your body is hurting. You have pancreatic problems. I have shoulder pain. I've been, you know, all kinds of things. I have, or whatever. All of us have, right? Body is nothing but a bunch of pains because it's degrading, you know, every day the cells are dying. Everything is, you know, getting older, and it's a total degradation. You're not getting better, you know, for sure. So the total degradation is happening at all times. Total decay. One imagines that, no, no, no, this is permanent. I want it back. I want that only, you know, how dare they. Whereas, you know, there's no question about it. There's no need to say this happened to me and it was not real. I only is not real. Where is that? What has happened that narrative has so strong, you know, So the thing is, you have to, in actuality see and feel and express. I mean, based on that. If you do it based on knowledge and, you know, what you call conceptual understanding or clarity, and then some, you know, all those things, you know, semantic this and that and epistemology. All that is concepts. You're labeling, characterizing, classifying, you know, creating models. They're all models. None of it is based on reality, Just based on, you know, in, you know, kind of incomplete concepts. And all concepts are fundamentally incomplete because it does not include in it the thing that creates the concept. So if you include that in the whole conceptualization, you will realize everything is a concept. Then what remains? The thing that creates the concepts remains. And then in that situation, you say, whether there is narrative being shared or being written or said, what difference does it make? But let me not respond for Sam. Sam, what did you mean when you said escape.

You remember that, that I had made. I had just sent it to you on slack. Basically, what I mean by escaping is the world around us is all created by our senses, perceived by us, perceived by the me. All the problems are existing in that realm that we have created. So the solutions that we come across are from the problems in that zone, in that field of view and within that circumference of our senses. And because of that, we. All we do is react. And there is no genuine action. There is. There cannot be any genuine creativity involved. So when I say escape the me.

I mean, can you close my door, please?

Yeah.

I say that if we let go of the fact that this all is created by me, hence this is all just a creation of ourselves, you escape that field of view, only then can you understand your place and you can have a genuine action or a genuine solution, genuine creativity flowing through you. So within the dream, but escaping yourself, escaping the fact.

So the way they say it, you know, in Upanishadic phrasing is be in the world, but not of the world. In other words, we visit, don't we? We visit the dream, we visit it. We're obviously not from here. We're only visiting for a few hours, isn't it? At any given point in time, whether you call it waking or dreaming or any other conscious state, it's only temporary. It disappears, as is evidenced by the disappearance. Everybody sees it disappearing, Right. We cannot say it does not disappear. Yep, it disappears. And every, every state disappears, appears and disappears. So what appears and disappears definitely cannot be real. Right. Therefore, the question of escape doesn't arise. Escape from what? The unreal?

Yeah.

So the question of escaping from the unreal.

Even, even the consciousness is filtering in and out. And you know that you were unconscious only when you are conscious.

So exactly, this is the point. So you will only know in words, though. Only in words. When I say you know, it's actually not correct. When you know you're conscious, knowing is something which is not the real knowing. You know, the real knowing is not knowledge based. Like when you're walking on the street and the bus is about to hit you, you jump, you know without knowing where to, how to where you go to land. It simply is action happening there totally without your control and understanding and imagination interfering there. Nothing interferes when you jump out of the way, when you react like that, that action is not born from any kind of other knowledge. You're not saying, oh, let me analyze this bus. Now you just do it before you do? Yeah, you just do it. The action occurs. You don't even do it. You witness the bus, you witness yourself jumping. Then the reflected consciousness begins. Oh, shit. Did you see that? Which is based on what? The past.

And then we set the rules of the cause and effect, that this was the cause.

You create the cause right there. There was no cause. It just happened. But you create the cause, then you suffer instantly. Otherwise, just go on, go on. Next. Next thing, next thing, next thing. Otherwise. In India, you'll see people start beating the bus driver. You know, they'll catch him, they'll beat him and all that. If he hit somebody or something happened, and not only. It's nothing to do with them. One whole crowd will gather, you know, and then they'll start telling. He's like this, he is like that. They beat him, don't let him go. You know, what has that got to do with them? All those people there? So that is the world we live in. You're simply doing your own thing. You start building your house, somebody will come and say, hey, this is not a way to build a house. You should build it this way, you should build it that way. I have this better idea. That better idea, right? Simply all ideas. At the end of the day, you're living in a house, you know, what difference does it make and to whom? Which is why, you know, when we. When we work in a wake, you know, when something doesn't work right, or somebody is not engaging right, there is nothing to do there. You know, just drop it, finished, move on. I don't even go back and try to explain and tell you, no, no, do it this way, that way, nothing. Finished, stop, you're done. Don't work with us. Come back when you're ready because there is nothing there. Lots of people will appear. It's a continuous process of appearance and disappearance. So, Edwards, are actually, you know, launching an AWAKE network.

Oh, nice.

Or is looking to learn and launch one and to help others launch networks. He's a trainer. He's a professor. You know, teacher.

Okay.

In computer science.

So what network?

Pretty excited about that. Yeah. Edward.

Enlighten us.

Well, first thing I want to do is understand what the AWAKE platform is able to provide kind of mathematically, algorithmically. My interest is in finding a stable cultural expression on top of it. My end goal is how do you create an environment that tracks equity participation?

Yeah, I think, you know, on that one, on the equity piece, dude, I got some good ideas how to construct a company where the employees or anyone who's Doing work for it and is generating value for it can basically take a portion of that generated value as an investment in the currently open financing round or any buybacks that are available from the company. So over time you could assign like 10, 15, 20, 30, whatever you wanted percentage. You know, once you have a certain amount of value, because you need to first generate the value, then you can give away the value. So. Or you can, you know, you have to create the value creation process and then you can let others also take it. So I like that idea. It's actually really cool. So you could, you don't have to do full fully, you don't have to do 100. You could do a portion. You could also, you could be compatible with other mechanisms, it could be compatible with regular capitalism, but also have, you know, 20, 30% in this manner, which is significant. It's, you know, you know, it's quite a bit. 20, 30, 40 or whatever you decide, you know, out of a hundred is significant for the world if it's big. And that can be done on the, on the ledger.

So yeah, so if you look at something like Amazon, there's a funnel.

And.

It all kind of goes into Jeff Bezos in the end or top level investors and that's not recycled. Whereas the value that's created by Amazon was done by the distributed body of.

Vendors and customers and they all got what they wanted. So to say that they somehow were extracted out was incorrect. You know, they all connected and made money. You know, The mom and pop stores have closed down. Mom and pop stores have closed down, but horse carriages also went away. You know, so you cannot say, oh, horse carriages have gone. What about these people who drove the horse carriages? It's called change. You know, that doesn't mean it's bad. It just means that new things have to happen, which is not the, you know, responsibility of the person who already created one new thing. No, no, now you create all the new things for me. No, there's no need. People will create their own new things. Other people will create new new things. You know, to say that mom and pop stops close because of Jeff Bezos, that's a silly cause and effect. Fundamentally untrue. People today have created new businesses and have become very successful. They don't sit there thinking, oh my God, how will I compare to the Amazon? You know, people have created big, big businesses in this, in the last 30, 40 years with Amazon along with it. Lot of big businesses and big companies and small companies and many have been created. But when you say mom and Pop. It's like saying that somehow mom and pop is somehow a Sankro Sanct thing and somehow it is something which is to be deserving for them and they should never get it taken away. But in what way is that true?

Local economies are more resilient. You have a disruption of the supply chain like we saw during the start of this pandemic.

In what way is it a disruption? To be honest, you look at 61 million people who died in 2019, this year's total death toll will probably be lower because of the total number of deaths have gotten lower because of all the reduced inactivity and accidents and pollution and blah blah, blah. So the net net score of death is lower in 2020. So I mean, what do you mean by disruption? It's a temporary disruption in your convenience most. I have never seen a covert. But not that I'm not saying it's important. It's usually important global pandemic. But it's, you know, how many percentage. Yeah. For how long was that?

A month.

A month. And was it a real issue? You got it from online. You got it from so many places. So like that kind of inconvenience. Oh my God, my grocery shelves are empty for a month. It's like. Would you call it disruption? Whereas people around the world don't have food all day.

I live in a privileged state. Though there was a lot of happen.

To simply wake up to that. No, that you're living in an illusion. So with the minute you wake up to that illusion, then there's no issue at all. Otherwise they simply oh, my toilet paper is not there. I mean, what is that nonsense? So to come and say and claim that. Oh no, this, this. Then explain also. But I live in a privileged state. Therefore what Wake up, finish. No need for privilege. What about it? You already know it. That privilege is what says this black person should become. Reparation should be given. Enough. See, most people who are alive today never faced slavery. Nobody alive today has been a slave. These black people who are all. I mean, it's. You should be. You know, racial justice is important. Obviously. You know, affirmative action is good, obviously. Don't be a prejudiced asshole, don't be a racist. All those things are fine. But the people who are protesting have never been an actual slave. How can they talk about slavery? Imagination, isn't it? Reading in the books this happened, that happened. Most people, you read history, they will not be able to answer even what Abraham Lincoln did or didn't do. So when you say privilege, it is ignorant. Privilege. Not only privilege, but ignorant privilege. It's horrible.

You know, what I meant by privilege was I have a high income.

And.

I can afford different channels that other people can't.

But that's always been the issue. Your gas price in the last 10, 15, 20, 100 years has been because of the blood has been, you know, spilled in all the other countries. The reason you have all the good things here is because other people don't have it. You know, in America we've taken it from all the other people. Ppe when the whole global pandemic started, we bought it all. We just bought everything. We don't give a about people in Africa and other places, right? We never do. So why suddenly. Oh, pandemic, my, you know, one month I couldn't buy something in the store. Like, you see the absurdity of it? People are dying every year, millions are dying in like pandemic situations. Do we give a. No, don't even come. You know, think of it. They're getting raped, they're getting killed. You see the, you know, Africa like people are like, you know, malnutrition. Well before the pandemic. So why we're discussing the pandemic because it affected me in America, you know, before this, no one gave a. Even now, so ignorant, you know, this is, ah, that's America for you. And that's a fact. The most uneducated people in the world is America. Not because of the system of education. It's like the values and the basic things are never taught. Otherwise the world would be different, you know, so we have to be very, very, you know, all embracing of reality. And the reality is the world is trash, total garbage. Not a single individual in the world is a good person based on ego, based on, you know, the self reflection is not there. Therefore there is no question about it. Everybody operates only egoistically. So nothing can be changed there. That is what, that is what we are saying. You cannot change anything, but you can escape it in the sense that you can be free of it. You, the individual or the totality of you can be free of what is not there. All the things we just talked about are both there and not there. If you want to talk about the world, this is the world. You cannot talk only about, you know, America and only this little corner and only this little thing. If you really want to talk about the world and people and pain and you know, all these things that you want to talk about, privilege and all that, you take a total view or it is a partial egoistic view only which has no interest in general. No, nothing original there. Everybody is bothered about their own what about it, you know, But that's just me. In other words, I'll also add that if you want to save the world or you want to improve it, do it. That's all. Whatever you can do a little bit, you know, whatever you can impact on a day to day basis, every day. Because otherwise it's just talk, you know, because we don't care about really most people. Otherwise today you would be, all of us would be out there, you know, protesting or doing whatever else it is we do. But we are bothered with only ourselves, our house, our this, our that.

So that's what it is.

Comments Edward I'm just being inflammatory a little bit, but thoughts.

I'm new to this conversation and. Having a little bit of difficulty with it in the sense that, you know, I raise up some words and you're going on a rant about what those words mean to you and the associations that they bring up for you. And so like I'm being heard as much as, as, so I'm just listening.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's just starting a conversation. It's the first time we talked about this topic, actually. It's not a, this topic is only brand new. It's the first time it came up, to be honest. So yeah, I don't want to dominate. I wasn't. This is not a regular, you know, conversation but I just wanted to start, you know, inflame it and start it. I just want to see what you feel. Everything I said is just sort of partially, partially true. Right. It's also true and untrue. But I would love to, you know, hear your thoughts, how you see the world.

So I feel like I've had a somewhat of a charmed life, benefited from the fact that my dad was a doctor. I just want to personally be able to provide more of an opportunity that. For more people.

Yeah.

So that's.

Yeah.

I do find the world to be a caustic place. It doesn't need to be that way. So how do I, how do I create a system that's a little less caustic?

Yes, exactly. Which is where we finally connected when you know, you said, okay, let's do it. Absolutely, 100%. These talks are not really useful, to be honest with you. It's really just doing stuff. It's really. We just hang out once a week and talk about other things, but mainly it's in the context of, you know, doing something. So let me ask you, I mean I wasn't. I agree with you, by the way, Edward. It's not that I'm disagreeing with you, but oftentimes, you know, I like to tease out the. The people who really see it versus the people who are conceptual.

How has your perspective changed, Sam, for the conversations that you've participated in?

These conversations, we haven't yet kind of begun with many of those concepts that we have discussed so far. But it actually made me see things from a newer perspective. I was adding a lot of filters in my work. I was adding myself as a graphic designer and how I should think, and if I go this way, what will be the solution for it? I was just adding too many filters, and most of the times, all my solutions would be kind of not genuine, even if they were good. So I started practicing this. The. The skill of trying to go everywhere and nowhere at the same time.

To. Very good. Yeah. And.

And then. Then just creativity started flowing and thoughts. It's.

Sam, remember the first few designs that you did, and then the. The feedback you got, and then, like, the next month, you'd made some changes, which are still. Then we started these conversations, and then you really changed, and then the evolution was like, yeah, it was rapid. I mean, all your designs now are like, you know, like they're coming from a place of true creativity. You're just like, okay, this is. I need a solution for this problem, you know, as opposed to before. I will say it in my way because I was seeing your design output. If I were to phrase what you just said, I would describe it as. You had learned a lot of design templates and practices and patterns and all these different, you know, things that you had learned about how can people design different things. And you had learned so many different things, and then you were putting them together into new designs, drawing upon what you have learned, you know, and that was an artificial construct. So the designs were coming across as being, you know, kind of put together in a. Not in a organic, authentic, seamless, beautiful way. You know, it was more like, okay, so I have to make it beautiful. So let me think about all the beautiful things that I saw, and then let me just use the most. Two most beautiful things I saw recently. And, you know, let me try to. Yeah, so it's like, based on the idea of what you want rather than just what you want.

Yep. I was just hinging my knowledge, and I was just combining based on the knowledge. But now I. When I look at, for example, Spiritful, I look at the. The overall ethos of it and what New I can bring to the table. And it just automatically starts to happen. The ideas automatically start to happen and I quickly start implementing them. Just keep on trying and correct. Yep.

If you remember, the first few logos too, were very literal. You know, like spiritful was all about spirits. And I was like, well, that's not the real spirit. Spiritual is about being spiritual, you know.

Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember that.

So all the time our. Yeah, all our, you know, concepts and are abstract. And you. You release yourself from limited knowledge, which I can tell you, Edward, it was transformative. I could see it and I'm so happy to hear it as. So in my work, you know. Yeah, go ahead.

Typically, like as an example, I have a picture of a. A potter shaping clay. Whereas before everything would be the theory of clay shaping and then it would be more the feeling of it and the shape of it and wanting to feel. What's the expression? Expression is wanting to emerge right now.

Yeah, exactly. It's a flow, you know, a flow state. You just go with it and literally what comes out is good. That's literally what happened.

Yeah.

You know.

Sam, it sounds like you said you have gotten out of your way more.

Yep.

So when we add filters, the simplest filter is me. I identify myself as a graphic designer. So I expected that, hey, if you need to do a great design, obviously you have to understand that the basic fact should be that you are a graphic designer. But then we had. I had a conversation with Amit and he said that even take away that filter, just. Just take it away and all these. So this is just one example of removing one filter. But there are more. And as I experimented, I realized that once you start removing this out of the system, removing knowledge out of the thinking process, you will just get genuine ideas based on. I don't know how to describe it. It's just automatic. You look at a company, for example, you look at a network like Spiritful or VEED, and then you just. You understand it fully and ideas will just keep on coming. And all you have to do is just implement it, try it out. How it looks in the. In reality, in prototyping.

This is extremely important, Edward, you know, because the true creativity comes from somewhere. Otherwise you don't say, oh, that's creative. Wow, that's so unique. You know, that's interesting. I've never seen that before. You know, like that response is what is called as creativity. Otherwise everything else is not new, so to speak. You know, although nothing is new. But that newness factor comes from somewhere. You call it that's being creative. So creative. Even artists and new movies and new stories and that's creation, games. You create like the new stuff, right? And you say that's creative creators, artists. But where does actual newness, new concepts and ideas, where do they come from? Because if you look at the mind, which is only the past, and you're processing the past, how can you create the new based on the past? Combining the past only gives you the past, right? It cannot give you the new. So once you realize, oh, it cannot come from here, the next question automatically becomes, then where does new ideas come from? And for us to become successful, all you need is new ideas. Because everybody wants new ideas. Information is power, all that. So we are literally talking about the source of knowledge and ideas, Which of course is also the storehouse of when you get a so called new idea, you store it somewhere, right? Where you store it. Where do you store your idea? Want to try that one? Where do you store ideas, Edward? No, you know, where are ideas stored?

I don't have to store them. I mean, it's storing. It is more about trying to create momentum.

Right? But you do know, like, oh, yesterday I had an idea, you know, you say it like that, that yesterday is a, is a storage, you know, of memory, Is it not? You're saying that I, I remember.

I don't remember.

Remembering is the storage. You do remember. That's, that's why you're able to use words, you know, it's just that so unconscious and so perfect their practice, like driving. You do need to know how to drive. You do need to know where to put the car keys in and you know, use the gear stick and pedals and stuff. But you don't have to consciously know them. You can unconsciously know them like that. You can walk and talk unconsciously as well as consciously. So the knowledge is always there. It is not that knowledge is not there. It is just not in focus. And technical knowledge is needed. You want to know how to start the engine, you'll need technical knowledge. But do I need to know how to create a new drawing? Do I need to store that somewhere? How will I draw this? See the difference? And during the time when you're using knowledge to drive the car, it is awkward. Oh my God, am I driving it right? Oh my God, am I doing it right? Oh my God, am I drifting too much? Oh my God, am I driving too fast or slow or what's happening? Who's, who's looking at me? Is somebody bothered? Is somebody honking? These are all like Based on knowledge. You know, particularly when you're new and you're using knowledge to so called learn. Very, very awkward. Eventually you don't even know that you're driving. People will be like, stop talking, stop doing this, stop doing that. Like you'll be doing everything but driving in the car at high speed. So that is the question of knowledge in both cases. And there is storage going on as well. So the storage is memory. Memory is the storage. When you say I remember, that is storage. When you say I forgot, it is just that you cannot recollect from the storage in that moment something. Therefore you say I can't remember. So there is a storage. You have to be aware of that storage. And memory is a faculty, not a problem, you know. So if you use the memory appropriately, like knowing how to drive even though it's not conscious, it's important information. Where you live, how to go back home, how to open your passwords and all that simple memory. On the other hand, yesterday that fellow spoke to me rudely and he is such an asshole. And I will hate him for the rest of my life. In fact, I'm going to plot and figure out how to his downfall is going to be my supreme moment. In fact, my next. I mean, I'll spend my entire, you know, one month thinking about that, you know. So memory has two kinds of, you know, issues or, you know, whatever properties. One is technical memory, factual. You have to store it, you need to know it or no problem. Nobody argues that the color is green. Everybody stores it in memory and they can recollect and agree also. No problem. But who to vote for? Is it not based on memory and partial understanding of the world? So that is the memory where it is something which is psychological memory, not factual memory. The psychological memory plays havoc. And in fact it is called the me. This happened to me. I am this person. How dare he say that? You see, it only impacts the image I have of myself. Not actually me, but my image is bruised. My ego is bruised. They say. What is that ego word? Nothing but an idea I have about myself. I am so and so, which is the only thing that has hurt. Not me, but my identifying myself with that concept makes the suffering real. As if I have lost something or somebody.

When you. For me, the memory is not something I have to control. Like the only. The only conscious thing that I try to do is keep myself clear.

Clear of what?

Noise clear.

What is that noise?

Entanglements.

What is that entanglement?

It's just, I don't know if you.

See what it is, it is just memories of past. That's what you mean by keep yourself clear of the past. Because now there is no problem. Whatever's happened, has happened. It's clear all the time. But otherwise entanglement is only of the past.

My memory of how to drive a car is part of the past. I built the muscle memory and the intuition of how to do that.

That's what we said. There are two kinds of memory. Factual or technical memory and psychological memory, which has no basis. He was rude to me yesterday. Has no basis. I spoke to him yesterday. Has a basis. You know, I did speak to him yesterday. We had an interaction. Certain sounds and exchanges occurred. But to say now he was rude to me and all that today, it may have been rude then also you may have said it to him and you may have had a few words there. But today when you bring up he was rude to me, is that not psychological? Where is he being rude now and you bringing it up now, Is it not meaningless? What is the point? That is called as being unclear. It has no bearing on the present and nothing to do with the future. Therefore, it is called being bogged down by the past or being unclear on what is to be done. What has the past to do with anything? Past is over. Nothing to remember. Obviously technical things I need to remember. We discussed it. Memory is not a wrong or bad thing. It is a faculty that you should use appropriately. Eating too much is bad doesn't mean mouth is bad, you know, it's just the way to eat. How much you eat and what to eat is the different issue. So same thing. My memory is not bad. It is there. It is to be used as appropriate. But when you store nonsense there, it's a problem. And it happens unconsciously. Like you said, you don't control it. Therefore, to become conscious of this process is awareness.

Can you say that one more time?

Becoming conscious of anything is awareness.

Yes.

People search for awareness all the time. They keep searching, searching. They find consciousness. Even they get confused. Because words are very confusing, you know. So we have to become clear like you said. Therefore, words cannot come in the way which are nothing but past memory based concepts. So the memory is coming in the way. If I say some word, you will have a memory triggering you. Just like what you said to me. You know, same thing is happening on both sides. That is all that ever happens. Okay, so if the triggering ends, then one may respond with action. Otherwise one is reaction reacting to by the trigger. Right? That is what Sam was saying earlier. All you're Doing is reacting, never acting, never being really creative. Because creation needs action and not reaction. Reaction is always of the past. Otherwise you cannot react. Therefore it has no free will either. Because you are bound to react based on the past. Free will. We will not go into free will really, but apparent free will and so on can only arise. So called creativity can only arise when the past is not in action. So in our case, you know, just because we are on these topics, we'll just clarify the words once. So when we say awareness, we mean, you know, pure consciousness, which means not of anything in particular. Right. And the content of consciousness is what we generally term consciousness or impure consciousness or just consciousness because it's conscious of something. Otherwise you cannot say I'm conscious, you know, for you to be conscious, you have to be conscious of something, you know. So consciousness is the contents of consciousness. You cannot be conscious without any objects. Therefore, when you're not conscious, what is actually happening is consciousness has been lost. In the sense that I lost consciousness, I gained consciousness. What does that all mean? This is what it means. So the contents and the lack of contents. So conscious of consciousness is awareness. You can use that way again. These are all words which may confuse. So we are very careful to be very careful. But you see what we are pointing to, that is the thing consciousness appears and disappears. But when neither of those things happen, something is there, you know, infinite. That word infinite is already in consciousness only compared to. Because infinity needs dimensions and dimensions needs consciousness. Dimensionality is being conscious of what is, you know, in terms of knowledge. Therefore one says the word infinity. Yes, but when you transcend the notion of infinity, that is what it is beyond the absolute, the ultimate, you know, whatever you call it. God, blah, blah, blah. Well, Edward, I hope you'll join us again. We usually do these for an hour.

Yeah, the as things get in here to the end of the year, go start packing, you know, for the move.

And stuff like that.

So hopefully I can make free time participate.

Yeah, whenever we'll be doing. I hope. I don't know if you'll do it because I actually don't know what will happen. But the plan is to run it for a week's interested parties. It's an internal thing. It's not really meant for anybody in particular, as you know. We just do it because we do it for ourselves, you know. So I do it for me. Because all there is is the me. And you are me and everybody is me. And in the awake world, that awake me has been designed because the fact is, everybody is me. So when you log in, you are me. Awake. Me. Just like iOS, you know, that ice. People think it stood for, you know, Internet, but it didn't. Steve Jobs last gift to everybody was the autobiography of a yoga yogi by Yogananda. You know, and in that he had written Actualize Yourself because he had gone to India, he had gone there, he had gone to all the states, he spent time with all the people. He actually knew the thing. Which is why he tried to really fix his stupid cancer with his own head. Which you should. I don't know if you would. I guess if I get cancer, probably would not go to the doctor either. Makes sense. But. Point is that you know, when you realize the truth, you can create a new world. Because true creation or creativity, as we have said, comes from somewhere. Creation itself has come from somewhere. Manifestation, where we are seeing manifestation already has come from somewhere. It was not there just now. I was in a different one, a different dream or a different whatever. So one has to ask. Everything has a source. Nothing appears without a source. What is the source of this manifestation?