iRealization - Season 02 Episode 03

Hey. Hi.

Good morning.

Hey Sridhar. Good morning. Good evening.

So what are you talking about today? And is there any kind of topic that.

No, we don't we have any agenda.

We will catch up on the same topic actually. It's about becoming more clear about one's own day to day experience. Okay. So that one is not ineffective in living. Basically. No, people don't understand what is living. You know, they, they live in a conceptual world. True means they are always thinking about something or the other. And in that means that you're not in that what is living? You know, living has to do with that moment. Yeah, yeah. Either you're living, which is called living, or you're thinking.

So a lot of the future gets defined by sense. Also about it last memories. Memories and whatever you've gone through or experienced kind of defines a lot of things about the future. Also sometimes I don't know, I felt maybe that's how certain things work.

It's a hundred percent accurate actually. You know, because if you just see how people even experience the world just basically right. If I say 10 people, if I give one mango, you give a piece of mango to 10 people and they will all taste it, right? They will all tell 10 different things what it is, how it is. Yeah. Is it good, bad, this, that? Right. So the very experience of something as simple as eating a fruit has no definiteness. There is no objective truth of the mango, you see, so it is only what you make of it.

Yeah, yeah.

So the universe is that only because there is no objective truth anywhere. So the minute you realize that the whole thing is subjective, then you realize that your subjective truth has no meaning. Because nobody's subjective truth has meaning, you see?

Yeah, yeah.

Your own, not others. There is no question of others here because the others itself is a conceptualization of what there is. You see mango and many people have different things and ideas of what it is. Someone who's never eaten it, but has done a PhD on it, studied everything, is biologically, you know, understood everything and this and that and that, but never tasted it. Can be called an expert. He can be on every talk show discussing the future of the fruit. But he's never tasted it. He doesn't know what it is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I think like in that sense they have to experience to understand.

They have to pay attention to. What is the meaning of the word? Understanding? Yeah. Understanding can happen only in the mind. And it requires you to have concepts and it requires you to have previous memories that define those concepts for you. Because those concepts have no meaning to anyone else. True. So you are defining your own understanding in terms of your own definitions, which are all your own. No objective truth anywhere there, you see?

Yeah, yeah.

So whatever happens is based on that limited understanding of what we call as perception. Because after all, what is perception? Many people perceived the same mango and told 10 different things. So perception itself is subjective. Yeah, yeah. So the minute you say perception is subjective, why is there any reason to perceive anything? It drops off. You see, perception itself is the problem. So why to perceive, you see, what is there to perceive what can be perceived is only your own idea of it.

Yeah.

Nothing else is possible to be perceived because perception requires concepts. But if you don't perceive it, it doesn't mean it's not there.

You know, in that sense, does knowledge help gather.

Very good question. And the correct answer is knowledge is the ignorant part. Okay. Because that knowledge which you call knowledge, is it not based on ideas and past knowledge and definitions and conceptualization? True. Any book reading is knowledge which is false.

Okay. Which is also defined by somebody else and put together.

Yeah.

Correct. If you trace it, you will find it is just an idea. Even gravity is just an idea. You know, it's a description. Just because you say gravity, gravity doesn't mean you can control it or understand it. It's there, that's all. If you walk on there, you'll fall down. Finished. So walk carefully. That is called actual. There's no need to discuss whether it's this or that or that or that. You know, the definitions have no meaning.

True.

Yeah.

True. So that's what we mean by, you know, living in the actual thing. Yeah, Actual versus what I call imagined. And imagined means based on your own ideas. And this leads to the fact that everything is imagined. Then where is the question of everything?

Yeah.

So that is what we are exploring here as to what is it that is there to explore? What are we exploring? You see, we are exploring something that we perceive, isn't it? Whatever you perceive, only you can have questions on Whatever you perceive, only you can be involved with. Whatever you perceive, only you can be bothered with. Whatever you perceive, only you will be doing or not doing or whatever it is. If you don't perceive something, it doesn't exist, Right?

Yeah.

Because after all, existence to. To whom? Yeah. If it exists in some isolation, all.

The information and all that are you. Is it good to decipher it and interpret or just let it be and not think too much about it?

Exactly. Because thinking of what any thinking is based on the concepts and ideas and knowledge, what we call knowledge, which is nothing but a collection of ideas and concepts, is what you call knowledge, you know, Otherwise, what is knowledge? You know, I say, I know that the mango is like this, but is it like that? If I asked mango, would it say that or only you say that?

True, I guess. Has this probably happened because of the requirement of education, the systems that are in place, that we've all become like this?

It has happened because of the not knowing of the truth that there is what is. You see, we imagine that there is something else and therefore it creates the whole reason for doing all the different things that one does in life. Otherwise, how do you know what to do? You know?

Yeah, yeah.

Automatically, somewhere in the world you will be eating, scrounging, you know, and there's no, you know, language needed for communication. Actually, if you go to some country where you don't know the language, you can get along, you'll be able to say, I'm hungry, I'm dying, I'm feeding, and this and that, and they will take care of you there. True. Because, you know, language has no need for anything. You know, when we are walking on the street and you see somebody who's not, who's very hungry or whatever, is there a language needed or. It's all obvious.

Yeah, I think when there's less language, there's more genuinity to it.

Correct. Because language has to do with one's own ego, which has created basically concepts of you, who are you and who are they and the difference in the two and all those things. Is it. Yeah, language has. Because without language we're all just people in the jungle and seeing each other and eating and living and, you know, if there's a problem, we will help each other and move on or, you know, fight and die like any other animal. But where is the complexity coming from? Yeah.

So we think some sort of, some sort of an illusion or some sort of a dream. Will the dream repeat after the dream?

100%. Right. The whole thing is repetition only, you know, all you can see clearly happening is the dreaming, waking, dreaming, waking cycles punctuated by the sleep cycle. Right. Oh, that's all that's happening here, isn't it?

So you're seeing, dreaming and waking is both within a big dream.

Isn't it what you call existence? Isn't it just an idea of a dream, of existence?

How can you be. Oh, how am I sure that it's only one dream within a dream? What about recurring maybe millions of dreams within.

Sure, you're just using A word to say it is something, no? What does that word dream, actually mean? It has no meaning. What you call dream is not really a dream or waking. It is something that you are calling. Like the mango, you know? If I say mango, is it a mango? You define it and put meanings to it. And then you say, it's not like this, but the mango tree is sprouting. Lots of trees are coming, and more mangoes are growing every day. It's not a question of how does it work and all. It's happening, right? Every day it's happening. You're seeing so many dreams come and go. You're the one defining and separating out these dreams and saying they're sacred, isn't it? Otherwise, it's one process, right? Singular.

Who's running the process? Who's insured?

That question of who is the question of individual agency. You see? Is there an individual agency somewhere? Who has free will? That's your question. And the answer is, there is no individual. So where is the question of free will? Free will for whom? Free will only occurs if there is an individual who can act independently of everything else. But there is no everything else, nor is there an individual. There is only the full totality of what is. You see the universe as it is, isn't it? Everything is happening all at once. There is no cause and effect. You're saying, who causes what? And the answer is, there is no cause and effect. Because you imagine both the cause and the effect. First you imagine the effect, then you imagine the cause. And then you say there is cause and effect.

So in everything that you're saying, one thing clearly repeats is that I am the one doing stuff. I'm the one imagining. And I really can only do. I'm a function, I'm a being. Why? Why can't I be a static thing? Why do I have to be a whole? I'm a function, do you understand? Like I'm a being. I'm awareness of everything.

The minute you say you are something, isn't that a process? Because if you are something that doesn't change it, you cannot express anything. There, you see? Because otherwise the expression requires change.

Yes?

So the changing factor. You're asking me now, why do I have to change? I shouldn't have, you see? But you're asking me that question using change. Change is needed to speak. So you're just reflecting sounds and a light, and you're asking some meaning out of that. It's like saying, what is the meaning of this wave in the ocean? It doesn't Mean anything. It's just part of the ocean. It is the ocean. There's no wave actually, it's you imagining it. There's just water there, Right? What is actually there has to be seen. Then the question becomes clear. Whether or not there is an individual or whether there are many people and is there anybody's will? See, that is a question from the perspective of something happening. You know, you've already decided that there is an effect. Then you're asking whose cause was it? But that first of all, perception of the effect is itself the individual speaking, isn't it?

Yes.

So where is the question of that source? Isn't it illusion itself? That's. So illusion is asking illusion to explain itself in terms of illusion. That answer will always be illusory only.

Okay, so why am I? So here's another question then. Why am I even dreaming in the first place? Why am I not strong enough to not have even started this? How has the dream possessed me?

Right? So the question there again is the same. Who is that? Me? Who has been possessed in the dream? Rishabh is asking that how come I'm this and that. But in fact when the dream ends, there is no Rishabh.

Yeah, but like if I am the one experiencing everything, I didn't start this dream. So is this dream a second thing within?

See, first of all you have to understand very, very clearly what it means to experience a dream. You know, once this becomes clear, only can we proceed. Because you're giving reality to the dream. You're asking many, many questions about this and that in the dream. Whereas to see clearly, the dream is not real. It's not there. Yeah, has no meaning. You cannot go into the dream itself and ask for meaning because it's just made up. The whole thing is a dream. Dream means not real. So in the dream you're asking how come this is happening? That's happening. Actually nothing is happening, right? It's a dream. Not real.

Well, if you think about it, there's no other place to go ask.

Yeah, yeah. There's no harm in asking. But the analysis has to be done. I have asked the question. Now who asked the question and who is going to answer? In the dream state, a dream character has asked another dream character to explain the dream in the dream.

So in that sense, like a lot of times the mind creates lot of things on its own. Like you know, you may not have seen certain situations or experience places. So the mind automatically, kind of like in a dream state, there are things that it can create.

So 100% is it like you will have a nightmare, you'll have a strange dream, vague dreams. You'll be in Sahara desert, some very thirsty, some strange thing, suddenly you'll wake up, it was vague. And you go and get some water, right? See, there is no. Your mind or this person's mind or that person is only what is the mind, what is called as consciousness. There is only information in the dream. You see, in the dream, all there is is information or knowledge of the dream, which, as I said, is ephemeral and illusory because it's only based on the seer, which in this case is what you call the dreamer.

Since these are all.

Sorry. Yeah.

No, no, I was. I was just saying in this duality of life, it seems so. Ask. I have a question. Why did I even become awareness if knowledge exists? It's kind of foolish to become.

It's not foolish.

How do I say this?

Did knowledge exist already?

And then I became awareness to perceive it.

No, no, no, no, no. You cannot perceive. See, how can something appear without awareness? You will not know it. You know, knowledge is a side effect of awareness. Yeah, but why? You get attached to the side effect. It's like getting attached to the shadow or the exhaust coming out of the car. Like the smoke, you know it's coming out. But that doesn't mean you should run behind it and give it attention.

What should I attach my awareness to?

To nothing. You are awareness. You cannot attach it to anything. The minute you attach it to anything, you become an individual.

And why am I just. Is there something more than just being a soul function? Because.

There is no soul function. You see, that soul function is imagined by you as if you are an individual. You're a soul. You're in a small piece of the pie and you have a function. That's the imagination. You see, the whole dream is happening as a single thing. In that dream, no individual character has any function. The whole dream is a scripted play. It is simply rolling there. You're witnessing the dream. That is what you say. I witnessed a dream. I had a dream. I was in a dream. You don't say I went. I mean, you can say it, but you know, that was not the actual thing. You were just imagining it. You can see I went here, I had dinner and all. But you know it's not true. You were actually sleeping and the whole thing was simply a play in consciousness.

Okay, Right. See, humans, right? Now, if you think about it, humans say that they dream because we don't understand how one part of the brain Works. Now, if I'm awareness and I'm basically supreme, how did I end up dreaming? I mean, how did I mess up? Did I want to?

It's not. No. You see very, very clearly, even in a dream situation, when the dreaming is happening, this question arises. But it has no meaning because that dream is not real. Do you understand this point right now? The dream, if it is happening, is not real. Yeah. So this question itself loses the meaning, you know, once this becomes clear. This question is being asked inside of duality, which has arisen due to consciousness, AKA awareness. Right. And now you're asking a portion of the consciousness, which is this tree is asking how come this other tree is next to me and I don't like this tree and all these things or whatever that's asking question has arisen about its own nature or about its situation or whatever.

Oh, so you're saying I had a plan and I entered the plan and according to the plan, right now I should have no idea of what the plan is like inside the dream?

Who. Who had the plan?

I mean, if I. I mean, I should have wanted to dream, right? And that's why I'm here.

Who. Who wanted to dream? That's what I'm trying to ask. You have to be an individual to have free will and past ideas and imagination to want to dream, isn't it?

Yeah.

So that's called illusion and ignorance of reality. The very ignorance wants to dream. That's all.

Oh yeah.

Because of ignorance, one dreams. That's it. That's called illusion. You're seeing something that's not there. That's it.

You said because of ignorance one dreams.

What does it mean?

Because of ignorance? Awareness becomes aware of a dream.

No, no, no. Awareness remains as awareness. But you're aware of the dream. You're seeing something that's not there. That's it. Like an illusion. Like a Maya, you know, like a mirage in the desert.

Oh, I get it. You keep saying you are aware of the dream. If I replace aware with owner. I'm the owner of this dream. I'm the owner of that dream.

All of these, there is no. There is no ownership. There is just dreaming. There is no you there. That's the thing.

So is there something apart from me?

That me word is the confusion, you see? What is this me you have to see, Mahastapa.

I am existence.

There is only existence. That's what it is. There is no I there. You understand? Who says that there is existence? If I say there is existence, then it is, isn't it? A concept based on my understanding of what is existence, so that that whole assertion of my own ignorance doesn't need to happen. Isn't there existence? Once this is understood, where is the need to go and find out? In the mind, you see, Simply eat the mango. No need to go and become a PhD in the mango. You understand, right?

But isn't it only possible to know that I am existence when I'm dreaming?

Exactly.

When I'm not dreaming, I don't know anything. I only know.

Exactly. So what are you when you don't know anything?

Just the awareness of nothing also.

Now, ah, awareness of awareness, which is called awareness itself. There is no need to say awareness of awareness, because awareness. Awareness is awareness. So all that remains when you have no knowledge is awareness. So when I say there's nothing, what is that is awareness? You see? Awareness of nothing or awareness of whatever it is.

Yeah, I forgot my question. Only from a mission.

It's not important. What is important is to see the reality of awareness, being aware of itself and anything that arises in its awareness, you know, it's awareness. Awareness is what tells you something is right. That's what. Otherwise you will not know it. That's the very basic thing.

So when you're meditating, like meditation happens, is that awareness consciously there or is it.

That's right. Awareness is always there. It's never lost. You know, because that if somebody says I'm lost or it is lost or whatever, the one who says it is knowing that, right? Therefore, awareness can never be lost. What can be lost is only consciousness. I lost my conscience. I regained consciousness. I lost consciousness. I was unconscious. I fell down and lost consciousness. I regained consciousness. I am conscious. I'm in a conscious state. I'm in an unconscious state. So what you can gain and regain is consciousness. But when you have lost consciousness, you're not dead. You know, you come back and say, oh, it was. I was unconscious. Who is that? Unconscious? Yeah, yeah, that is the thing.

Most people who are on the search of higher realization will come across awareness and then they look at it from every angle and it's still awareness. But is there something beyond it also? I mean, how can I just be a function? Am I a function of something? Or are there other functions like me, like awareness?

No, no, this is all again, cognition. What you're describing, questions and answers can only come from conceptualization of the totality, which can never be conceptualized because it's the totality and it includes conceptualization. So all your questions and answers are all illusory and Numerical. Any answer and all answers will be chimerical. There is no need to go into it like gravity or quantum physics. There's no need to understand in great detail all these things in words because it's already here. Simply be you understand. Do you need to become a PhD in gravity? Or can you just be an expert by being yourself? Yeah, you can walk anywhere, you can jump around, you will never fall down. You'll be very, you know, dexterous. The kids can do it, everyone can do it. Old people can do it, unless they have physical problems. So navigating and using gravity in a day to day life is not something special. But to become an expert in gravity requires you to go to school and you can fail in that test. And they'll make fun of you that you don't know how, what gravity is. But it has no meaning, you see, because it's like knowledge based, who cares?

Yes.

Which means what? To seek the truth, one has to get rid of the words. No need. What is the need? The real truth will not come to you in words. It cannot be expressed because any expression is only consciousness. To your point, you can only ask this question in a dream or in waking.

And when I think someone asked a question about meditation and trying to be aware of awareness, isn't that okay? Honestly speaking, as a Gen Z, it's kind of boring to just sit down and be aware of awareness. I mean, I'd rather go be aware of this entire life. Is that why we've ended up here? Because being aware of aware is actually nothing? It really we could just go be aware of everything.

The very question of everything comes from the ignorance that there is something and that all together, those many, many, many things together compose everything. This is the illusion. Gen Z being Gen z or Gen 20 or Monkey or whatever is the illusion because it's an idea. Where does it say Gen Z? Does it say if I look, ask your body, will it say I'm Gen Z? Is it written somewhere that it is Gen Z? What is Gen Z? Is it something that you've created only. No.

Yeah, creative.

Then where is the. Where is Gen Z? It doesn't exist. If you go 100 years back and say, you know, you're this generation, that they'll be like, what are you talking about? I mean it's just like, you know, you're crazy. Like you're just talking about nonsense. Gen Z, you know what nonsense is that? As if people who are born in a certain year have some characteristics. It's completely retarded, isn't it do you believe all Gen Z people are the same?

See, like even after understanding my true nature awareness, like I'm thinking to myself well if I rather choose to be aware of this Gen Z human mind and body, life is kind of fun. Whereas if I'm just aware of awareness, life just stops.

I mean that's illusion. No, that is because you don't understand it. This understanding that you have is completely conceptual. It's like being an expert in PhD and my in a mango but never tasting it and not knowing what it actually is and asking theoretical questions based on your theoretical understanding. Yeah.

So also because we think, you know, we train our minds to kind of create and recreate images, lot of things happens. So when we are in a state of sleep, when that continues, is that what causes dreams? Because the mind is constant.

Yes. The running mind is called the not resting phase. So when you rest, the mind is at rest, nothing is seen. No waking, no dreaming. When again movement of mind begins something, thoughts begin, something is seen. It could dream. You could be in Sahara desert, whatever. It depends on the content of the thoughts that come out and what is seen. Same thing here, only thing is the density is different. Yeah, but that density being different is another perception. Only time. You see, time is a perception. Without you there cannot be a perception of time. Time is experience. What you're. What's happening now is time. Kaal Kaal may call who you know back in the day in Mahabharatana. So that time which moves is the occurrence of now. The existence factor. It's happening. That is now I am there and I am always there. I was there yesterday, now tomorrow I will be there. That feeling of experience of now is time. Yeah, of actual time, psychological time you make up tomorrow, this, that someday I'll be great. This, that all those things are psychological. Tomorrow we'll do this. I'll go to that restaurant, remember I went there that time doesn't actually exist.

So in that sense, let's say today, in today's world like how people dream and maybe some ancient times people probably would have had different dreams because of the exposure, because of things that they were connected to. So as humanity has to progress, the knowledge part of it is playing a big role in terms of moving forward. So do you think knowledge is a good thing or a bad thing?

Knowledge is. First of all one has to see clearly if there is any progress. What you call progress is exactly what you know. Today in America most advanced economy people don't have $400 to their name. And if There is any problem, they're going to be in deep shit, which they already are. Biggest economy in the world. One in three children are hungry right now in the U.S. okay? And so when we talk about progress, you know, this whole illusion needs to be stripped away. That there is something called progress is happening somewhere. Would you call this world having progressed? I mean, if you just look around, it is not.

Yeah, true.

It is going only worse and worse. Right. So we don't call it progress. You see, the very concept is bad because simply we say some electronics and car has appeared, therefore it is, you know, some progress. Whereas what we have forgotten is who we are. How can you make progress by forgetting yourself?

Yeah, I think we've looked outward more than inward.

Correct. So when we have forgotten to see what is actually there and get enamored with the dream objects that are not actually present because you can see, right. Anything that appears, it disappears. Any tree that appears, it disappears. Any living being dies. Any physical object decays. There is not a single atom in the universe that is still. It is all moving towards decay. So we are all running behind decaying objects.

We are all time bound.

We are all connected to the material manifestation of reality. Whereas reality has got nothing to do with the material aspect of it. It has to do with the power and the reality behind what appears as material. In physics terms, E is equal to MC square. So we see matter, but isn't it actually energy? So if you see it that way, the whole universe is simply energy moving and you perceiving it to be this and that, isn't it?

Yeah.

If an alien species sees from far away, all they see is matter. They cannot end movement. It could be a tree, rock, you know, flood people like it has. No, it's just matter moving around. Where are the people, the actual humans? Or is it not inside? If I cut your hand off one by one, all your limbs, will you die or will you still be sweeter or will be half of it? Right. You, Shira, don't exist in your body. You have a body, but obviously you have many things. And these things define you only to the degree that you let them. Some Olympic or athletes have handicaps and stuff. They have trained and gone and become gold medalists. They've gone and climbed Mount Everest. There's that regardless of what physical, you know, limitations they may or may not have. So people with and without have no connection, just imagination, with what they think they can do, not to who they are, what is happening. Right? Yeah. So one has to become clear as to the Reality, then everything else automatically falls into place. Because right now all action is coming from ignorance. The very basis of action, which is I, I am going to do something. The free will, the agent is illusory. So it's optimizing for something that is never going to be able to be optimized for because it's an ever expanding conceptual void of desires and, you know, constant impressions of others and opinions and all these nonsensical things which have no bearing on reality.

So if this has to be corrected, like, because we are today what we've learned and seen from our parents and people around. So if you, if you feel there can be a correction, let's say we are realizing today to understand these things. But as a humanity, if they, if it has to be rectified, where do you think it can be, you know, kind of changed?

Only with the eye. You fix the eye, that's all. Because there is nobody else to fix that.

So it does that knowledge should be taught to us, right from the school.

Education used to be taught, if you remember the good old days, the gurukul system and all that, that was what they thought. They used to teach very practical things how to live life. What is life, you know. Yeah. What are the basic things? Right? These are the things, the basic principles. And the basic principles can be told to anybody in one day or one hour. The rest of it is simply living them. That is called real education, real gurukul, real life. And all these British foolish people came and they just, you know, manipulated society for their life.

So when the invasions happened, a lot of things changed.

Yes, they, they manipulated it for not. They thought, you know, materialism is the greatest thing. They were attached to the objects and gold and all these things, right? True. Our kings and queens would feed these people in gold plates and gold, you know, utensils. And at one point they fed them gold dust. And when they asked why they're eating gold, everybody else was having normal food, they put gold dust on their plate and they said, because we thought you are so much into it, you thought, we thought you eat it, you know, because you can't eat gold. So that's the reality of life.

That fascination towards the gold and whatever materialistic alignment came probably from outside than within people back then because it was readily available and people never work towards attaining those. Because I think it was all a given standard of living was already there. It was only, I think in terms of enlightenment and knowledge, concept of, you.

Know, enough and all these things. And all that was, was basically what the Society was all about, you know, in India, we have this concept of, it's okay, it's all right. It will be okay. It's okay. You don't need to go and, you know, make a big deal about everything, you know, and people think it's just. Oh, they're just, you know, whatever. They're not ambitious. They're not this, they're not that. No. It is called cooperation. It's all right. Everything is all right. It's okay. Things are all right. We'll do it together. It's all right. We'll adjust. People perceive that as a lack of, you know, but it is the most valuable thing in the world. It is called cooperation. If you put people together, few people also, they can change anything. But otherwise, the mind, you know. No, no, no. I want this, I want that. It is all negotiating for some illusoriness. Yeah.

I think that competitiveness brings in lot.

Of.

Things that we learn or, you know, try to achieve more than the neighbor.

Yes. It becomes a comparison. You see, Maya, the word it means to measure, and it doesn't even. And to measure is not even something like measuring in some great sense. See, when I said earlier, change is required for anything, you know, that is because even to speak, a change in sound is needed. And you must be able to perceive the changing sound, the pitch, in order to make out what the other person is, what sound is coming out form it into some shape and which then gives meaning because you have connected it to some words. Right. This change is the requirement for anything to be perceived. So change is required. But when we say, oh, me more than you, that change is illusory. There is no me and you. It is just waves of, you know, matter. You see?

Yeah. Interesting.

Perception in. Is awareness also a type of perception?

Perception requires awareness, but awareness does not require perception.

Yeah, yeah.

Because perception includes the concept of what are you perceiving? Which brings in memory, it brings in the whole conceptualization and brings in everything. But awareness needs none of these. For example, you are aware of your breathing or your digestive digestion. Digesting is happening right now. There is no explicit knowledge of it, but it's happening, isn't it? How is it happening? Who is doing it? That same power is operating everything, you know? Yes.

It's possible then that the dreams can get really absurd next time.

Hundred percent.

Is there a way to.

Isn't this.

I mean, is there a way to reduce the intensity or, you know, like not happiness?

You see, again, with concepts, we are asking concepts. You know, the very question of absurdity. In a dream, it reduces and becomes nil when you realize it's a dream, you know?

Yeah, but like, to realize it's a dream, you have to be so evolved. I don't think animals out there realizing they think they're in hell or like caged up.

No, no, they do not think that because they do not have conceptualization. They do not have metacognition. So that conceptualization factor is required for you to imagine that there is hell in heaven.

Oh, yeah.

So they are living in the now. It is just programmed to do whatever it is in the moment. They feel hungry, they do this, they do that. And they don't plan. They don't say, oh, I will go there in the morning to get my food, then I will go to the other side of the jungle, then I will come back in this way and make most of my day and all. They don't think like that automatically. They find their food every day. They eat and come back. There is no question how the birds, billions and trillions and gazillions of them, find food every day. Who's planning it? But here we are sitting and struggling.

And these birds will basically keep finding food for like billions of years until they evolve and realize that this is all a dream. Is that all we're just waiting for?

Now? Very, very clearly, let us go back to the basics. In the dream, there is no birds. There is no Arisha. There is nobody there. Nobody is evolving. Nobody is anything. There is no these things, those birds that you are so concerned about, they disappear. And when you wake up, you are also not bothered by them. You don't go back saying, oh, shit, there was a thing, how do I get back there? I need to fix the bird. They will evolve, even though they were real in the dream. And if you go and tell them they are not real, they will bite you and peck you and you'll have to run away and hide in the dream. Does it make it a less of a dream?

I mean, no, but it's kind of less of a dream for the birds because they have no idea.

They don't know. No, no, no. That very question of what it is, that conceptualization is not there, you know? So this doesn't arise in them? No, they're in the being state. They're in meditation. Everything is meditation. There is no day, there is only meditation. You see, the mountains are meditating, the rivers, the birds. This is the only meditation. And you are the one there in the mind running around.

Sorry, when you say meditation, I get the traditional ideas of meditation. So what do you mean the mountains are meditating.

Because.

They'Re just being.

Because. Yes, precisely. Okay, they are what is. And they have no confusion about it because the confusion is nothing but the consciousness part, AKA knowledge, AKA self knowledge, or I realization, which. Any. Which in itself, any form of knowledge is false. So what remains.

Well, what actually always remains is me and my confusion. That's why I keep coming back to.

This podcast and why don't we separate the two and then see what remains?

Why are there two when I am just awareness?

How is when you tell me what is it that we've been saying all this while? Anything that appears is imagination. So why are you asking what is it? It's imagination.

Imagine. Oh, yeah. Also, I was just thinking about it the other day. When you go to sleep and you're dreaming, your body's out there really doing nothing, isn't it?

So there is no body.

When you dream, can you say that you're in two bodies? Or should I say I'm in the dream body only?

Which body? No, we keep on going back to it. We keep on going back to it. That. Why pay so much attention to the materialism inside what has arisen in conscious states where we are saying that awareness has no consciousness? You'll have to think about it a bit, meditate on it. Sam, how are you doing, buddy? Good, good. I would.

So, you know, when Vishab is saying that we need to compare and progress without knowledge, you know, without knowledge, without own progress. So once you're aware and once you're, you know, let go of all these things, all these actions are happening automatically.

Right.

It's just that you zone out from the. From that rat race that, you know, everybody invests their brain power and energy in.

Yes.

So it's not like you're not changing, you're not growing, you're not progressing, you're not taking actions, you're not learning.

You're not.

Using a quote that you listen from a book, that you read from a book or, you know.

Many.

Examples, but you are using that. It's just that you are not confusing yourself with. It's the. The later emotions, the. The knowledge that we put in after analyzing the raw data. You are just taking actions upon actions.

Upon actions and moving on.

So what. What is the thing important part in this part is when you say that you are still doing this way and that it is not that actually because knowledge now has reduced and confusion is reduced, things are automatically happening faster and faster and you are giving again. Cause and effect to it. It's because I read this quote, because I read that there is no I there. There is nobody doing it. It is happening, you see?

Hmm.

It's just a seamless flow of.

Seamless flow of what is seen in the dream, you know, the whole dream as a single thing. It's not that you become more effective.

Is it possible to control dreams and say consciousness to control that? Is it possible to get a hang of it?

100%. But again, it is just in the dream, you see? So what is the use of it, you know, in the dream, once it becomes extremely clear it is only a dream, you know, what is the. What is it that is going to be gained in the dream?

No, supposing I decide that I don't want to dream.

In order to stop dreaming, one has to understand who is dreaming.

Yeah. Wow. You'll instantly stop dreaming the second you realize who you are.

Correct.

I mean, it will still look like a dream and everything, but once you.

Realize it is no longer. No, no, no. It is no longer called a dream. See, the word dream is what exactly? You have to understand. It is something we don't know. It is something that appears and disappears. And we say it was called a dream. You see, it's called a dream. Called a dream. It's called waking. That you are dreaming, you know, becomes clear. What is a dream itself becomes clear, you know, what is waking becomes clear.

I have a question. So when you're. See, when you. Oh, wow, you're right. Oh, my God. See, when you're lucid dreaming, you realize that you're actually awake and you're dreaming the same way you can. If you can realize who you are right now, you'll wake up and you'll keep dreaming.

No. So the thing is, that whole thing has to become clear. Yes. You're close to it. Don't conceptualize. This whole thing has to end now because you're going to continue to imagine this waking up situation.

Yeah.

You understand? You will start imagining that that's happening in the dream. It's all conceptualized, including God. You can become God in the dream, you know, but it's only a dream and it's not really God.

Yeah.

Okay. So one has to see clearly. There is nothing to be done in the dream. There is nothing to be done in the dream because there is no reality in the dream. What you call dream is the unreal portion.

So also, does the physical aspect of the brain also affect the thinking and imagination capability? Like, you know, I will see reading up Something on how the brain cells, if they start degenerating, it kind of starts. Affects the thinking. So if that can be worked backwards in terms of keeping them healthy, does it change the way we think?

The way you think? And all the thinking itself has to do with the content of memory. Because without certain content in memory, certain thoughts cannot arise. So whatever is in memory only drives the new thoughts. Yeah. So all thoughts are based on the past.

Like if somebody is in too much of despair and, you know, kind of contemplating a lot of negative thinking, does it. If it affects the brain cells and there's some degeneration that happens.

Everything is affected. You see somebody who is, you know, negative, negative, negative. They will have negative experiences in life, which. Which reinforces their negativism. Because it's not just your body that is being affected. The dream is affected. You are controlling. You are the dream. What you have in your mind is the dream only. You see, There is no separation there. There is no them. There is no something happening. Some other person and you as all separate things. This is not the way it is. It appears that way, but it is not the way. It's like watching a movie and saying, hey, this King is good and that king is bad. No, they're both actors. They're just playing the roles. And it's just, you know, it's just a story. You don't need to get excited. You don't need to wait till what and see what happens at the end. Nothing happened. It's a movie. You understand? Yeah. This excitement factor comes only when you get involved in it thinking it is real and that you will gain something or lose something. And that something is only material. It cannot be anything else, is it? It is either somebody or some object or money or something, you know? Yeah, but it's only a movie. So when you tell kids, say, don't get so excited. Stop fighting about which king is better and all. It's just a movie. Stop it. What are you saying? There is no reality to it? Same thing in a dream. No. Once you have seen, it's a dream. Where is the reality? The question of, I'm going to get lots of money in the dream. I mean, only if you have illusion about the dream will you be able to pursue that kind of a goal.

I guess. Observe the observer, I.e. you, and observe the observer making the observations.

Yes, that is called meditation. In other words, seeing clearly is called meditation. Any kind of thinking involves unclear seeing because thoughts cannot arise in clear thinking. Only action can arise there.

If you think inside the bubble of a problem. You won't get the solution of the problem unless you rise above it.

That's correct. You have to change the very parameters in order to address that particular thing. You have to go above it. Beyond it. You have to go. You have to transcend the boundaries and limitations of that specific situation in order to dissolve it. You cannot dissolve it from within. You have to dissolve the entire situation. Which means step outside the situation and address it fully. Just like that. You have to step outside this dream and see the reality of what it means to dream and to be awake. All right. Excited?

Super excited.

Good stuff. Okay, thanks, guys. We'll catch up on Slack today.

Cool?

Sure.

Let's catch up.

Cheers. Cheers, everyone. All right, bye.