The $100M/yr Info Marketer: AI Mastery, Offer Publishing & Being Sam Ovens' #1 Employee

What's up? It's magiclipper here and you're a few moments away from watching an exclusive podcast that I completed with Nick Fisher. Now if you're not too familiar with Nick Fisher, he currently runs a portfolio of offers that do 100 million in annual revenue. He was Sam Ovens top one employee back at the consulting.com days and of course he's still actively in his fulfillment trenches fulfilling for clients. And during his podcast we walk over how he uses AI for his clients, how he crafts digital selfs of his clients to help him with marketing collateral, how we use AI to our advantage to craft extensive creative briefs so we don't have troubles crafting BSLs, big ideas, UMS and stories and a lot more. So make sure you watch until the end of this podcast because it's massively value packed. I know we have of course been back and forth on Twitter for some time. There's been some confusion surrounding the schedules and cold conflicts and times and events. But of course glad to finally connect man. I've had some good things man. I've actually just wrapped up a coaching call with our students, asked for some guests that they want to see on life and one person name dropped you. So it's good to see that your name is circling into the industry.

Thank you. No, thank you for telling me that. Did you remember what topic they specifically brought up or what at the end.

Of the master class? I've just done like a market research CTA ox. Who do you want to bring on board? People are saying like random names but then your name got brought up as well so it's good to see man.

Awesome dude. That makes me happy to hear. I haven't taught in a while so I'm still getting an indicator. I've been asking everyone to use. Depending on what this is, I'm going to give it the public domain version. Nick.fish Basically my AI bot and I'm like people used to want media buying stuff for me. Like when I look at my old like quote unquote social proof folder, it's just media buying stuff and I'm like I haven't been on the dials much in the last year, maybe two times now where I've actually been the one buying media. And it's usually in a situation where I'm training in teaching the team on the stuff I do. So I don't care like what my my end game here is just to be as helpful as possible because if I do that with a one focus goal in mind, I'll have enough people around me that can solve any problem. So that's been kind of my theme this year. And thank you for telling me that. Market research I love to do. Like if I'm making an offer or ghostwriting an offer for someone, I definitely go deep on market and competitive research. And I go a little bit lighter on brand because a lot of times the people are coming into my life with a very clear and established brand. I don't have to create character. So that's, that's my depth there now.

Wonderful. I mean, bro. Yeah, we can of course, just kick start, right? We can just keep it natural and conversational because I know the way, like.

I know how.

Conversational, natural ideas will spring to mind naturally. Right. We come off sophisticated backgrounds, we'll know things subconsciously. Right. But we can of course, just dive in. And I think the first thing I want to walk over is of course, the ventures that you're actively working with. Right. Because it does seem like we are in similar verticals. You maybe take a different approach to us. Like for some context, we just run like an agency, do front end to backend management for big info guys. Right. Is that the route that you take? Because of course I've heard some things about like offer publishing and like different conversion mechanisms you implement. But what's the main focus for you now? Like, what are you working on?

Yeah, so let me see if I can. I'm gonna plug my computer into so it just doesn't die on me. Here. I will show you our internal deck. Because what I call ourselves is a startup studio or like venture studio. But there's some nuance to it. And the difference to me is like when I say something's agency or not or consulting, consulting to me is like, you know, no implementation, no done for you. Just strategy and discussion and clarity.

Right.

It's time block. And then for me, agency is the idea of. It's usually associated with a retainer fee or a percent of ad spend if you're media buying. But in general, I define agency as I have clients versus I have business partners, is like a growth studio. So to me right now I have both. We have just, we had an agency from 2019 in addition to a studio in my own brands. And I was running out of cash flow. And this deck that I have kind of goes over that. So various seasons in my life, if I need more resourcing, I'll take on a client or two in a gig. It's fun for me. Like last year, Cody Sanchez, it was super Fun to help her solve a very specific problem. Like Black Swan this year in the last year helped solve a very specific problem. So like certain people that are just they won't give me equity in their business and I really want to work with them anyway. I'm like, can we find just a project then like a client project? So that's the client work. I still do do. But I try to actually I don't try. I'm going to say this. I will not take more than one more project if like we have another initiative and right now I do. So you can ask my team. But that's the only thing that's really screwed me over is like okay, just because you can take clients test. I mean you should. And I want to do a good job on the project work with the level of people that are now in my network. So but I judge projects by are they an interesting person, do I want to work with them. And you'll see kind of the heuristics in here. So this is going to be my next year mantra. I'm just putting it up front. I was honored to get to speak. I still haven't yet. I missed it. Ben Bader's community who seems to have a growth operating community and I was trying to learn a little bit about him so I could do a good job and represent his legacy. So in general, my project that I'm focused on right now that has clients testing it out is roughly called Omni and I am just going to keep it there on that some of it I want to create some intrigue and mystery. But my background director of marketing at some places in my North Star like heuristics are dream 100. This is how like me and Sam Ovens met. It's similar to how me and you met even on X is just like learn from people that you want to learn from. And on X that is game right now, right. Of just accessing people. I'm like there's a shot I can get to anyone I want to that's like influential in our space or the tech space right now on X pretty easily straight line them and if not that one degree away. So it's a really cool place to be. I found this summer I'd ignored it for forever and right now like I still don't think to go there. It's on my calendar actually. I think to post on X that's like how I need to get in the habit of it. Some people find like socials addictive. I find like TikTok and feed based algos are much more addictive in X's. I just don't scroll feed. Like, you know, for the most part, like I just don't do that. Most people are having conversations, which makes it a little bit cooler to me and less, you know, less addictive. So I pop in, pop out.

I am, I am guilty of mindless scrolling on X. I am.

So tell me.

I am a guilty.

Tell me where, where, where can I find the more addictive feed? Because to me I can always stop. I like working algorithms, so I usually put in guardrails. So to me, like do you go to profile home? I just don't know where to go.

I go through the for you option. That's like the best video I've seen. And following of course, like if you have a specific with the people that you do follow, of course you're getting high value posts through the following section. But back to your point, what you mentioned, like around Twitter, like Twitter is in my opinion one of the best social media platforms for certificate exposure. Now what I mean by that is of course you've got like platforms like Instagram, Tik Tok and all these other ones, right? But the people on Twitter, by the way, that you meet, by the way are super interesting folks. Like I've met people by the way with like less than 1k followers that are absolute killers. They've got no digital presence but they of course know what they're talking about. Like I believe of course you agree as well. Like Twitter is an insane platform for that, like that sophisticated exposure.

So take me through then maybe because like I, I wanted to stop, I wanted to scroll, stop on two here. Like for me personally, because I saw two people I know and like I've also like, hopefully, hopefully you guys are seeing this. Hopefully you guys had fun yesterday. I'm on a podcast and I know that whatever masterclass on outreach you guys are doing, it's probably going to be next level, right? That's my tendency to do something like that. So what, what are you typically looking for when you're scrolling on X? I'm curious.

Like for what, what works for me specifically?

What makes your thumb stop essentially, even if you're doom scrolling. Because I doom scroll every now and again too, for sure. Just not on usually.

I mean if we go to the top part of this feed already, right? It's like the tweets with images, they of course like scroll stopping, right? Like, like the one for example with like Ryan Clark and the guy Nate. Who Nate. That was like A final, not like a funny scenario that happened on Twitter when that marketer, he put out one of his average tweets, right? I quote, tweeted that got some decent exposure. Like, I tweeted like, that was crazy. Like, that was like the difference.

I took it. I. I did this one because I was like, oh, I'm gonna keep this going on. On Nate's side here of this, like, semantics argument, it's like unimportant, but in general that the other guy thought it was right. And I think a lot of us just thought it was absurd, which is fun. So what's. Maybe I don't know if I can track that spider webbing. So you did the same thing, like, repost first quote kind of thing. I just don't know how to growth hack on Twitter. And X I'm genuinely asking, just like, normally, what's your thought? It's just, have fun or like, I want to grow here.

My thought process is right and I'm not because I'm not really the best on Twitter. But, like, my thought process is running Twitter is just losing awareness and comes and like, just write what comes to mind. Like when I thought about deliberately writing something and I forcing the idea on like tweet format, the tweet never done well. But when, for example, like now I was at the gym or like I'll be walking to the co working space, a an idea for a tweet would subconsciously come to my mind and then I would tweet it, right? It's kind of like the concept and the phenomenon about like your greatest ideas come in a shower, right? Similar mechanism.

So you. That's Hormozi's creative chaining as well, from what I understand, and his X feed. So I'm now going to bucket like you and that main bucket for me, it's to me, I'm like, what is someone's like, goal or aim here? And a lot of sometimes people can't figure mine out too. Like, sometimes my aim is just like, hey guys, I'm having fun and like, my friends are here versus I'm actually trying to growth hack and on X, I'm like, I do actually now see value in having a certain amount of social following. I just don't quite know how big and who, but it seems like people I like are on there. So it's important to me right now. It's on my calendar, right, for every day to post there. So if you see me post roughly 1 per.1x post per day, it doesn't Seem to be helping me grow, like, so help me out. Help.

Interesting. I mean, yeah.

Why I'm showing this is because I do have. I think about this, right? Works from short to long. Twitter for testing ideas. And then I usually would add a link and just put in, like, your. Your X handle, which is it the same as what I'm seeing on this screen? I know we all have weird handles.

It's M, A, C, I, E, K. Just a letter L. Underscore.

Underscore. Yeah. Like, that's the thing I can never remember too, is like, how do I like my friends? And I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm fish in iw. No one's gonna remember how to do that too. I don't even know. Can you change your handle? And does it matter? Have you noticed?

You can change your handle. But I believe now, like, you've kind of created this ecosystem with all your previous tweets, and those tweets are associated with the handle. I believe when you change it, you can no longer see the designated handle. Right. But I think I even consumed this somewhere. But, you know, like, handles with, like, just your name, for example. Right. I want to get the handle that just says magic, but there's a suspended profile that has that username. And I'm trying to so hard to get a username by container.

Okay.

So it's something you can buy and swapped or something like you get. It's under kind of black hat or what? What's the deal?

Yeah, like some black cat people can get it or even I think Twitter, they're releasing like a marketplace to buy these handles. Right. But it's kind of all perceived value. Right? Because, like, imagine now you had to handle like, Nick. Insane.

Yeah.

Like a lot of my friends do. I remember the.

The plug.

I won't reveal who it is. I don't know if they would want me to. Or they do like to be known for, because super dope. But just know that anyone that like, you see, like Jeremy Haynes, Jeremy Allen, Money, a few others that you guys can think of credit. There's a lot of people that I know just by their at on Instagram. And there was an era where I should have done both of the ones I wanted. They're like, do you want Nick or do you want Fisher? And I remember this person coming back to me and being like, the cost was too high because of the person that had. Each one was relatively famous. So I was like, all right, interesting. Yeah, just like, you have to go to. So, yeah, I remember that. Era And I was like, okay, this connection is going to get fired. That we're probably, you know, it's probably middlemanning a bunch of other people until you get to internal employee would be my guess. I don't know. I was never that on the inside. But yeah, I'll. I'll try to find it because if it's important, it would be sick to have. I know exactly the handle I. I'd want. Can you change it with just. If it's free and open.

Yeah. Like through Twitter, like through settings. Like, easily done. Okay. But yeah, like, I'll like, I want to get the magic one. But like, like for you, imagine the handle Nick. How crazy I'll be on Twitter. Like, the perceived value around that. By the way, like, your name is like a lot more popular to mine. Like, mine's like an Eastern European name. There's not many people with that name compared to Nick.

I would want Fish or Fisher or at worst, my other ones are Nick dot Fish. So I. I imagine actually before this goes out, we're not live streaming, right? Someone's gonna go squat on it. They're like, okay, yeah, grab that one. Yeah, we'll put in some delay here. Hopefully, you guys, if you're watching this, bring it back to me. I am happy to pay for it. Just I don't want to be extorted. Like, when someone brings me, they're like, do you want nickfisher.com which has happened for a couple thousand dollars. I was like, all right, guys, I'm not that famous where you're gonna, like, I don't need it that bad. And I grabbed nick.fish, so I own that and that's. It redirects to whatever I want at the time. Right now it's my Delphi bot.

Interesting. Interesting.

Yeah.

Like, of course. Talking about Twitter, right? I came across you on Twitter. Then I kind of go into like a rabbit hole around your name. I saw like a student of mine, he done a podcast with you as well, right? But like now with you and your ventures, like, of course you mentioned Twitter as the channel to get in touch with people. Right? But there other goals you've got in mind with, like, not like Twitter. Like, do you see as like a channel for, I don't know, new business or like, what versions with Twitter?

Yeah, it has. That's something that I think maybe me and Ryan Clark talked about in. In our interview. A lot of opportunities come out of X. Let's just say, like, this is an opportunity, right, that I said yes to I probably should be saying no to things that aren't like, directly related to my goal. However, Dream 100 is not done yet. So even though, like, and I hopefully don't take this the wrong way before the summer, because X I didn't know and we like met right over the Internet, I was like, I just made a dream, like 55 or something. I was like, the rest will fill in with interesting people around the people I reconnect with is my thought. So I'm trying to figure out and actually teach that to people because it can be daunting to start with. Like Brunson teaches and expert secrets. Like, that's where I first got the idea. I think maybe Shet Holmes, before I'm in sales machine, ultimate sales machine talks about it. And that's like, if you guys want just the simplest way to win. I think about, are you a how person or a person? I like, I like to meet people. I'm a networker. I like to go to events. That's not me. I do it because it's important and strategic. But I prefer to be introverted. And I think, how, how can I do this by myself? How can I not ask for help? So the how people, generally speaking, go through courses. They buy the courses, they learn the method of the growth operators. The who people ended up usually being creators or affiliate managers or like partnerships or like something that involves networking. I always consider like Steve Harward, like one of the goats on the on the who side. Pace is on the who side too. Morby, who is my business partner. I almost all my business partners are who people. Which makes sense to me now in hindsight. Never saw it though. In the beginning it's just like, cool, we have a problem who how paths. So figure out which one is you. Because trying to be the other one and just be like, Nick said, Dream 100 is the only way to get there. People say that type of stuff because they want you to focus and just do what they say. To me. I always like to give people at least the illusion of choice or like a bind, false bind here. Because really there's other things I could say of getting there, but that's a better heuristic to just start there and then you don't. You feel energized. You end up like, okay, this is hard. What I'm doing is harder than I thought, which has happened with me with so many of my goals. I'm like, okay, this is now. I've come to the conclusion that pretty much anything is hard. That you want that no one else has certainly. And if someone does have it and it took a long time to get there, it's probably a reason. And you can't just find super like super quick shortcuts without putting a lot of work. So know what you want, how you're going to go get it or who you're going to ask to get it. And X is like a who hack. And I'm building this show you just an example of the who side build out of Omni. This is the first time I'm displaying it actually publicly. I showed this at my in person mastermind. So this is the actual like application I'm using in skin right now to do this is clay using Clay Earth and their Nexus tool. Been working with them. Basically patch together a super connector. An MVP of this. So if I just say where. Where are you based out of right now?

Warsaw, Poland.

Warsaw. Like who do I know in Europe and what country is their company? What founders, what's. Who do I know that is a founder in Europe? I don't know if I know anyone else in Warsaw. This is. I thought I was going to impress you, but I probably don't know anyone in Warsaw. We'll ask after. But this is European channel.

Yep.

Maybe. Okay, sweet. So cool. And then for instance, like I didn't know Alexander was there and Rob. Right.

This is.

You see how like maybe useful this would be for Dream 100 or like when I think about it, the actual exercise or question. It's useful for everyone. We can go into Felix and we can see a bunch about him that we haven't caught up in a while. We've emailed and a bunch of other fun stuff. This thing is extremely useful for super connectors. But the AI allows you to do the Dream 100 exercise. Let's ask it. Can you give me the first 10 people that Nick Fisher might have on his Dream 100 list to interview for a podcast? And that is what kind of what I go into this thinking like who's interviewing who? And then I love when you said yeah, let's do free flowing conversation. That's my. My favorite. Anyways, like then we get to learn about each other. Y understand the. Yes. Sweet. Starting to think like me. Yes, you're starting to think like me. What would Nick Fiser do? Let's see if that's right. Yep, yep, you got it. Give me the first 10. So it is built a bit like how I approach things, which means it's. But you can pretend it's not Nick Fisher. If you want. And then now it's going to fetch it from the Super Connector network. So right now that's me and Pace. Pace's network. I can't see any of the actual conversations, but we get basically a running feed since he synced all of his sources too. Cool. Sweet Amy is like my right hand and she's, you know, just talked to her last month. So. Yeah, this is. I've talked to all of these. What's. How did you determine these? 10 was. What was the formula roughly. Okay, so what. What Recency. Like recency of cons. And there's like basically a bunch of other stuff thought into this of just here, people. Recency of communication, data first creation. It's. There's a lot of mapping that needs to happen both. Both actual and other things. But I can go into anyone's profile and you can be like, oh, how. How do you know each other? And I can actually prove it out and show proof of like, hey, earlier with Ryan, I'm like, cool, we're friends, I hope, right? I think you would say that now. We just met each other this year though. And most recently we not. Yeah, 19 times texted. 308. 29 meetings so far this year truly has been helpful. So when I say hey, like. Which I did before this on a post, you were helpful. There's evidence there, both to me and to other people that. That is interesting. And I can make associations with Josh Snow and Josh Gavin. Actually now no one knows about that yet. And who else did we meet? Like last time we were in person at Mastermind, Cole Gordon was. Asked him to speak. We were both in the back of the room there. And you guys see maybe how powerful this could become if people use this tool with me. So I am looking DM me if you want to actually DM me for sure. If you need help. And I'm gonna. I'll help you. I don't know who I want to add to the Super Connector network next because there is some privacy risk with this version I'm trying to create. Maybe that's who I need is probably someone who can accelerate this from a. Think it's feeding not just Clay Earth like core features, but other data sets as well with some preference and some limitations around the API. So if you can help in those. If you know what I just said, reach out to me. I would love for. I would love to pay someone to take this project from me and accelerate it faster. So thank you for.

Of course, of course. I mean everyone watching Nick's Twitter will be posted, of course, inside the description, so you can of course reach out to him if that's something up your avenue. But, like, the tool seems super interesting, right? Like, I mean, now, like, I'm going to think of like an ICP that we target, right? And try to see the benefits that it can serve for an ICP like this. Let's say now I run an info marketing agency, right. I'm doing 100k a month. I target course creators and coaches that do 500k a month, and I'm helping them implement webinar funnels on cold traffic. Right. How can a tool like this help me with like hyper value, like prospecting and like the Dream 100 method, as you said. Right.

Okay, sweet. So I was halfway listening, but we got to goal at the end and that was helpful because now I'm thinking about it differently. So what was the goal is prospecting on this? Okay, so if the goal is prospecting, how do I do the market intel and market research process?

Yeah, like, how do I do the market research for the prospecting?

Then my next question is usually about stage of growth that you're at. And then from there I give market strategy. So again, let's make this a meta example. This is fun, man. I love to do this stuff.

So these are the best types of conversations.

Nick Fish. Right. This goes to my ungated AI as of now. By the time you guys see this, I probably might gate it with some guardrails. And then I'm just going to paste what you just said, roughly. Or what I said and you said how I was doing. That is again, whisper flow. Right. Which has been fun. I learned about it on accident. I'm like, oh, yeah, I love this. All right. Yeah, it's doing it in roughly the order that I would do it. I basically work from icp. Voice of customer, voice of competitor. And you notice I skipped brand, which I said is like, usually where I need to probably bake this into it because it is most useful if you're a go to market stage to start with your brand because you don't have one. Right. Or you do. It's just probably. It wasn't. It wasn't well thought through because you weren't trying to be a creator in the spotlight. Like, did you have that struggle at first of, like, how do I show myself to the world, essentially?

I mean, I mean, most agency owners, they kind of have this struggle depending on, of course, customer journeys right there?

Yeah, I did. I found not everyone does. Some people just like doing Biz dev and being out there, that was never me. So I struggle with that. What was the first, what were like some of the things you tried to do as an agency owner to get more clients. They either didn't work or you didn't like doing them because they were draining.

And Cody, mail, which I don't think. Yeah, like mass sending code, email was massively draining. No avail. Yeah. That's like one avenue.

Yep. So I don't like that either because what services do you sell?

Logical to high ticket final implementations.

Okay. And then any expansion. Do you like do any done for you Media or traffic?

Yeah, done for you. Meta ads and creatives. Like campaign scanning.

Yeah, very similar to. Very similar to my agency services. We had about five that we did. VSL writing, book writing, media buying Facebook media buying YouTube, Croatia. That's it. So and that's even like for a boutique agency, having five services is hard, I think anymore and you risk not being very good at any of them and having to get low clients without bound and dm. So I think like cool, I understand where you're at. This is now going to inform the actual opposite. Assume that we have acquired a client like a marketing agency that I described above did. How would you start day one kickoff with the client or even before that? What do you do before kickoff?

Right.

And it should know all that. It has like recency bias built in. But I've done enough. I played pretty much every seat except like cfo. Well, I guess I played that too. Shouldn't have been in it. So. Yep. Access is always first for me. That's on my checklist and that should be source stamps. Hey, what's up Josh? And what's up, Claude? Yeah, like both internal and external sourcing. Right now the external one, the public one is just going to have external sourcing which because I've been so transparent will probably actually still be just as transparent and internal. All right then at. Yeah. Offer funnel clarity. Yep. You'll see. Snapshot.

Yep.

This is, this is the only thing that's probably variable for me is like I do to about 20, 25 and that's key that Sam Oven's taught me. It's the best example of that. Super swings.

Wait, those are like what I client interviews with what I trim customers.

Yeah. Or no. So like with clients or just happy customers. It could be the lesson's universal but for the sake of like what it actually looks like, I do it very different of like what I'm trying to get at on those clients. So I'm trying to get to this and I'm trying to get to an ICP pattern or what I call a skew. Like internally I say, what's the skus of our icp? And I'm like, okay, so our ICP is, is usually risk averse. They're usually skeptical instead of trusting, pragmatic instead of optimistic. They're all over the board as far as their preference on speed. So we'll go in the middle and we won't say that this is, do you see like the differentiation points, but they're all skewed here. I would say this is the fastest method for getting what you want, right? This is the not slowest, deliberate. This is deliberately created. That's me with this bot. So this bot going back to here, if I ask it, hey, personality comparison skews super swings. And I just want to show you guys how scary good this thing is. Show the skus or personality profiling that you do in crystal knows on super swings and describe the ICP in terms of their SKUs. Like risk aversion versus risk tolerance. Almost got it. But it should know AI is just like so smart that it can kind of just. You can give it half baked. Grammar risk averse. Boom. Sick. So like to me, I'm trying to you guys like you don't know like what's in it and how to pull it out. But I've been just pulling out it on this stuff and I'm just basically QA Q saying my own thing as we go through this because I'm like, cool. It's good, it's good. It can walk you through a process if, if I want it to narrow it down even further. And it's. And like have it be very. Let's call it Sam Ovensy or Hormozy. Which is wrong question. This is the right question. You should be asking what do you want in life? Right. Or like whatever the framework is, I could do that. But for right now I love it's like me. So I'm just making it like me first. And then maybe we'll make different iterations for people that will be more helpful for their kind of cognitive chain. So that's how I approach yeah, AI bot creation. But as a ghostwriter, like I where I started and why I got so good with mine so fast despite only working on it for two to three months now is paces I've worked on for about six months. And his has just so many, so many inputs and complexities and problems to solve that mine just doesn't need to like, guardrail. Like, he has real estate contracts and paperwork and stuff. That would be bad, right? To. To display. If I were to come in here and just be like. But what I usually do is if you make. If you really care or if you guys want me to train you on how to make a deli like this, write an ad for Pace Morby aimed at agency owners and use the ICP for AXA intelligence. And consider the competitive factor is lead generation for real estate not the best. Like, that's probably not really a thing Legion real estate.

There's.

There's not much marketing agency competition overlap with the real estate Legion game. But, you know, if you guys want clients, real estate investors always want more leads. Even if leads are like, flowing, there's like usually a scarcity mindset around lead gen or the need to keep doing it. All right, cool. Sweet. Now let's do one for me. All right. Now this One is for go.sub2.com. You're familiar with that funnel entry point, correct? If so, proceed and write me a hook that will target our core audience. Let's call it for a lookalike 1% ad set and use a CTA to case study and tell one of your 20 best conversion stories, or aha moments, as Nick would call them. I don't think he knows that though. Like, that now it's not me, so. But like, my bot would know what that means. My bot has his 20 best conversion stories. Right? That's roughly how you would write an ad with this thing. But like, I can get perfect tonality. So if anything, what I do now is I come back here, I'm like, okay, you see that I'm going a little bit too fast. I didn't think this through. Come back here, run it again, and then I'm going to tell it what I'm going to do next. Then I'm going to use Paces Delphi to rewrite for perfect tonality. So just use your implied pace impression voice. I don't know what I do. I just, I just write. The old way was just watch paste YouTube videos and write exactly what he says is my copy method. Okay. So to me, I'm like, when you write out of context and I haven't really done market research on Sub2's audience, I have no idea why I chose that, but I could ask it and hopefully there's some research. Second variant, more certainty for seeker versus speed seeker. Okay, cool. Yes. Give me 10 variations and then just a tag so I can understand if it's a competitive hook, a target market pain point or problem, a fear, a desire label the copy frameworks.

Right.

This is how now I'm teaching myself to get up to speed with my assumptions about the old market research I've done on sub 2 because I haven't done it recently. Last time I did market research was last year for sub 2. I do it usually once a year because I'm not the lead copywriter. Carson, who's our copy chief, probably has a way better grip on what certain products want. All right, thanks Said no so sweet. I like. So what now I want is this. These are good enough to now bring the Pace. And you make these 3% better for our target market using their own words. It would be helpful if you use exactly either your own phrases or phrases you've heard on student calls. All right, sweet. Now we're getting somewhere.

Nick, I mean I've got like a, like a quick question like other people maybe of course in a similar headspace.

Right.

It's like feeding this AI process, right. The inputs. What inputs do you feed this to? Of course maximize the creativity to help and actually make a match like Pace, like Mobi's voice.

Cool. I'll give you. Because we're on different plans. So I'm on like the 500, 600amonth plan paces on the immortal 25k a year I think or something. Although shout out to Dara and Delphi team. We because we bought Paces in World one first I get to talk to their team about mine which has been a blessing. So this is front facing right. And I can call her chat with mine which is fun. And if like I've never done this content idea for my team too have my bot call Pace's bot and we'll just see what happens. So. Or someone else do that. Let me what happens. That's always some of my favorite content on TikTok. When you have like two AIs talking to each other so that one would really kind of get interesting. But in general Studio is the back end. So if you're kind of coming to paces, Paces is apparently the best or like has the most depth of content and what they call mind that I think they've ever seen. So you can see like it's auto syncing based off of what you do is like think about massive integration sources and I can show you guys this is why I love Delphi. It took me forever to figure out like how can I get someone who actually cares about building a custom GPT at like 100x the level because custom GPTs are like semi useless now at this point for me, save for just like being the first wave of how you did this. So I look at basically there's integration sources. I forget exactly where they're at. But our plan for here is the immortal plan. I was right. And on mine I'm on the second highest plan. But basically you get these advanced insights while up paces the immortal plan. I wish I had this like his. Let's bring this back to the last three months. And I wonder if this mind quality is usually 99. I wonder what happened if it broke. Some integrations broke. But you can see these insights. It surfaces things and I can see things like these are all lead magnet ideas for me. Your audience frequently negotiates Asian commissions.

The mind quality is that the effectiveness of the bot itself, like how close the bot is to the face front end image.

It has nothing to do with how many words are in there. Immortal just means you can have I think unlimited words. Mine max is out at 20. Let's see, I have even this one file failed. This like will end up probably being on this playlist, right? Which is auto syncing for me and a bunch of other things. So everything auto describes, even Q and A calls. And I can ask mine. Mine's really good about recency and what I'm doing doing online. But you go here train and I can do an interview and it can pull it out of me or I can upload content and look, I can do give it a website. So right now like for X, since that's where you're like ideas start. Mine's already connected and you can see that. So create like everything that I'm doing, I'm flowing through it so effortlessly. And that is the hardest part to kind of unravel for creators. Like how do you actually get yourself unstuck? Which I talked about a little bit today. And then from there for me, my biggest problem because I wasn't a creator, I've worked with enough to like, I help them get unstuck. So I'm like, I know how to get like anyone unstuck even myself. Like if I get jarred, like I'll have a different problem and I'll try to, you know, either do it on myself or get someone like you to like snap me into it. Go to a friend, be like, why can't I create content? That's what the growth operators, you know, who are good do. So this what I. I've connected slack like everything. I've connected my whole entire life. To this thing and upload from CSVs. Like they really, really thought through these integrations and I can just give a channel. So if you want to mind meld it with like you and me, which you guys like, I. As of right now, I don't know actually, they probably don't allow for that. There's guardrails around you blending, I think other people's bots with yours. Like, I can't make one for pace without pace doing the face scan and id. They care about some. They care about people only making ones for them. And I. I don't know why, but probably let's call it legality, deep faking and whatever.

Regulation.

Yep.

So, I mean, this is. It seems like an interesting tool. So like in a nutshell, right, this tool here, Delphi, right? Is that how you pronounce it? Delphi or Delphi?

I. I don't know. Actually both, probably.

Delphi.

Yeah.

Delphi pronunciations, right?

Yeah.

So like I'm imagining myself using this tool. Right. I've got course material, YouTube videos, tweets, sops and Slack messages. Right. What I do is I integrate my social media channels into a tool like this, upload as many assets as humanly possible to upgrade those can be written sops, and then this tool itself will mold itself into me, which I can use for content distribution ideas. Correct. Is that the entire mechanism behind it?

Yeah.

And because Delphi, because they're using wrapping, let's call it open AI, I think mainly.

But let's.

They probably have a blend. They. And that's going to get better all the time. I'm usually thinking about, okay, can this. Does this do the 80, 20 of like, what I need to for forever? Like to where I wouldn't have to.

Switch the switching AI tools.

I found myself three years ago, two years ago, with way, way too many AI tools tried over the course of the year because they just kept leapfrogging each other. I'm like, oh, now I use Claude, Now I use chat GPT5.1.

Now I.

So I'm like, what could I go to. That's anchoring that will always win. And like Delphi competes in. Let's call it a purple ocean. It's like not blue. People are coming after this problem, but they just see it better, I think, than all these other things. And they're like, yes, like integration, sourcing and making sure that you just stay on top of that and then have some cool features on Roadmap is all I really ask. Because you can see where they're headed. Now, right? It's like now these action features are starting to appear. It's like index make it you. And if I could sell you on the idea that it it is you then I can sell you on the idea of you see on their dashboard the idea that I can buy your time back and that your time is valuable and make an actual logical roi. So for me when I look at my home analytics or conversations maybe there is a usually some analytics Delphi team if I send this to you, if you could make me and Pace on the same plan, that would be sick. I know I don't deserve the immortal but I won't use all the usage features.

I just another advocate here.

Yeah, I just want basically when I come back what's so useful is watch this is I could if I do enough good a job this year and making content and being in my business and recording content in my business then I could. We haven't done this yet. Next phase is set up stripe and have it do basically like OnlyFans like monetization model where it's pay as you go or freemium gate pay for usage, pay for a number of questions. And for me I would probably give people for free access because what I want to give people is not a dumbed down version of me for free. And then to send people like less value for free to me is not the idea that like Hormozi's selling people on, right? He's trying to sell you on the idea of like more value than anyone can give. I still give it like keep trying and iterating but make it free. And then he called it all at one time and inverted right? So to me when I think of like is this a top of funnel piece that you start with? No, think of it as a CX or client or customer like facing try to get it to be as good as you and replace your time. Because whenever I like want to justify working on this more to the team, I'm like hey guys, you know Pace has said like he's super busy. You know like he wants to at one point get out of the X role that he's in. I remember them. Hey, we've not created. That's what I would tell you guys. Delphi, I'll give you some marketing help. Time saved 139 hours and then I would be asking on onboarding calls, hey Pace, like if you were to like do an hour consulting or like how much do you get paid to speak on stage? What's your time worth in an hour? And he says my time is worth. Right now, Pace's time is worth, I don't know, 50,000 plus per hour. If he were to give a keynote, I actually don't know if he even, like, most of the time, he either just does it for free or he says no. Right? That's normal. But if he were to be bought for money, let's just say his time is worth $50,000 per hour. And to make the math easier for me, I'm going to say 10,000 hours times 139. You guys can. Well, we'll do the math together. It's been a long week. 1.39 million. And then I would have that number here is just like 1.39 million of potential revenue if you monetize this button to monetize it. Right. And that's the framing that I will be using on a landing page just to see if eventually, if it gets as good as me, I can justify it again with my clarity. Like vip. Oh, I did give you guys a hack. The VIP link gives. It gives you the ability to have 15 minutes for free no matter what. But I don't use this anymore. So don't look here. You can request calls here, but don't like, send message, I guess to me here. I won't see it most likely. So request calls. Do hit my calendar in my phone and if you need me and it's like urgent, this is the. How I say no to people is if I didn't want to do this, I'd be like, hey, is it because, like, you want to interview me because you're stuck, or is it just like, we want to get to know each other? The fact you said just two ways instead of interviewing meaning like, okay, cool, this is the right thing. Because I don't need, you know, to do. I love to do free consulting, unfortunately. So I get myself in bad situations. So this is my, hey, I don't have time right now. I would love to do it. Just request a call and then I know it's important and urgent to you because it's 16aminute. You think through your problem really quickly when you're on the phone with me, usually unless you're extremely rich, in which case you don't. Don't need to care. But in general, this is what I like about the friend. And I love when people hop on and we can do a quick call and I've taught them something or it helps, right? So I always look at this and just like, cool. It's a blessing. It's a blessing to be able to come here. You guys can see that people have paid me money to actually like, not only like me, but usually find the advice useful. So with that being said, I know I shared a ton. Dude, I would ask if in the comments, hey, how many of you guys comment below if even up to this point I've been useful or helpful or at least opened your mind, Right?

Yeah, I mean, Nick, one thing right before I've go to comments, like, we use AI in a slightly different way. I mean we've got our internal mechanism and it's called like the bybrain matrix, right? And what we essentially do is a similar process. But the only bottleneck is, which I'm assuming this tool helps overcome, is that it automatically populates the information and YouTube videos, right? What we do when we onboard a big line, right, we get all the YouTube videos, tweets, as many assets as possible, and then we've got like an AI process that creates an extensive credit brief that we use for marketing collateral, if that makes sense. These are kind of like 47 to 50 pages long. I can show you an example. I'll show you an example.

I'm gonna get my water over here and I would love to see. Dude, showing me AI stuff is a love language.

I'll show you an example of one we crafted for a client that we are no longer working with. I'm open to shiny details. I'm not too opposed. Let me quickly get these up. So this is for if I share my screen for people inside here. Next. Does seem slightly more advanced and a step ahead, but yeah, next. Get some water when you arrive. So essentially right is we onboarded the client a while ago. It was for like a faceless content offer. He specializes in like viral content free using AI and stuff, right? And when we onboard clients, we've got like an extensive onboarding process that collects as much marketing collateral as humanly possible, right. In all avenues. And then we use that to craft this by the matrix. And this is if we go in depth, right? This is like 57 pages long that walks over pain points, direct quotations, desired benefits, objections, hesitations, psychological triggers, status based language and pains. And then it goes into extremely in depth about like current self identities, aspirational identities, rejected identities, symbols of success, internal conflicts influence attitudes. Bro, if we receive like my copyright, by the way, like he's incredibly autistic and smart. His name is also Nick with a.

With a C. Autistic and let's go.

But he, but he creates these and we create these processes for every single client. As onboarded. You've got five most powerful emotions and biggest fears. Five ways fizz affects the relationships, hurtful things, other say previous solutions tried what they don't want to do, primary transformation. And Nick, by the way, like when this process is complete. Right. I can actually show you. Let me show you something inside our mastermind program.

Now I.

This is our mastermind program. We've got like a.

Okay. You're changing your process on market research, huh?

Essentially, yeah. And here, right. My copyright done an extensive math class for our students and it's like a five step process where we go over first the onboarding doc we got done for your templates for this and then gathering our ideal buyers. Exact words, of course, Amazon revenue like reviews, sales calls, et. The third pillar. If I find it. Where's the third pillar? Oh, with the deep research doc, which we've also got done for you. So that was ideal bio.

What was, what was I looking at before this? Was that the deep research doc or just the surface level?

This was just like the surface level doc.

Yeah. 57 pages is the surface level. This is my type of market research. Yes. And, and yeah, buyer profiles. You have way more than just market research in here for sure.

Yeah. Because like I even watched of course one of my favorite marketers of all time is Craig Clement was Golden Hippo. He's on a great in like amazing market. All right. And he's done a podcast with my first million talking about hijacking demands of your prospects. Right. And he just like the importance of market research. That's spot like no by the way, insane feature with who's the my first million guys sample and what's up guys name from my first million.

Sam Par. And dude, I'm. I'm blanking Sam. I know better than Sean, right?

Yeah. Yeah. But they brought on Craig on that podcast was amazing and he of course highlighted the importance of market research. Right. And of course it's the cornerstone of more of all marketing success. But we use this entire process. It's like a five step copy and paste system.

Dude. Yeah, I love copy and paste it and we're like Golden Hippo in the infospace kind of thing or Agora Mini Agora. I always say. See this is like when you honestly earlier when you said like we go deep here. This is really deep. Like for anyone who's. Who's watching this on my team, I love this and I have a. My next question is I get excited about this. This looks like my My manual, research doc and copy doc for Sigma Society is about this many pages of manually typed out stuff before I got even to the AI. So to me that's where I go deep that I would love to shortcut and have a quick version of it if I needed in a pinch. So you guys can get to go to market. Like, here's what I know what I would assume about your agency to be true. You guys are probably one of the best agencies in the world at quickly getting from client giving you money to turning the ads on and for them to be like happy and for the market to like immediately get it. Like you just hit tone market from day one it seems like you guys.

Yeah, I mean we are iterations. Yeah. Like we are refining our processes day by day. Right. But like our client onboarding process is so streamlined that like when we conduct this process and when we have an onboarding call, them like after the onboarding call is like we are ready to execute as quickly as humanly possible. Right. Because like at the end of the day, these sophisticated prospects, they want to save as much time and effort as possible. Right? Right. And we are bridging that gap with a marketing asset like this. So this is just one example. Like we create these for all our clients. And a piece like this, by the way, Nick, like I believe the one that you show me, it's a lot more effective in my opinion because I like the way to how it connects Twitter, YouTube and other social media channels. This is kind of like a foundational overview. Serves a similar purpose though.

Yeah, mine's, mine's. I guess the way I would describe it is effective. I don't know, it depends on the team. Like it depends what you're doing with this because if you're writing a 500 slide deck, this is more useful potentially. Right. Because you don't know what mine is indexed and you guys have a, like a coherent game plan. Mine is more free flow and it's in the moment and it's. And it's up to date in the last 24 hours. So I can ask it what I did yesterday. So like the perfect version of Delphi, what will end up happening is I actually have two tools going the redundant audio right now. Right. I can query that for this. Like I can just say what are we talking about in the current meeting? Give me 10 direct quotes. So if you know what you want, my tools are probably more effective, let's just say. But if you don't know what you don't know or you're Teaching your process is probably should be adhered to it and followed and static. I think over dynamic is even preferred in some instances. For me I would rather have a static report oftentimes than mine in cases where I'm still trying to figure things out and someone's like no, just follow this verbatim. That was like me doing content. Like if you told me hey we worked with a lot of creators, like you're doing X wrong. All you gotta do is just log in and hit super Grok every day and then just say respond to all my DMs and then leave. I'd be like oh okay, that'll work. And they're. And you're like yep. And I go okay, I'll do that for 30 days and if it doesn't work for me then I strip it. That's my usually heuristic here. So this while certainly could maybe be refined for outsiders who aren't like a product of your system. If you were to expand like to me this is like sick. There's got to be a reason you do it in this order, correct? Right?

Of like yeah, it's chronologically folded but as you mentioned, right? Is this is a static piece created yo and it is dynamic and real time meaning, right. If like let's say now our client collects three killer testimonials like Naman to Rosie. Picture tells a story emotionally, right. We will need to change the buyer matrix. That's like our unique mechanism to feed it those new testimonials so it doesn't really auto populate those assets. That's something that's like a constraint of the system in terms of like onboarding the client and crafting some marketing collateral as quickly as possible. Like hijacking the hell out of the prospects minds. It is a good foundation for us. But like I like the ins and outs of the tool that you showed me. Like especially like I'm even considering it using it for me because like if I can now migrate my Twitter, YouTube and like I just create like because I've also got like a newsletter, I could just put all my newsletters inside there as well, right? Like how would the process look like of like auto adding newsletters to the tool?

All right, sweet. I don't want to say that without checking with their team. So what I want to do is make it. I'm going to go in and get it at cost. Like do you mind like whatever it is, I'll quote you like hey, here's what the developers think and it could just be like, no, we can just do that for free. But that's how I usually get feature roadmap. Clothes will be like, well, we're not prioritizing that. I'm like, how about for $10,000, would you prioritize it this quarter? So I'll get that cost and then maybe me and you split it or I buy from you. You buy from whatever you want. The thing is, I just want it to be done faster. So I've just been waiting for this moment in AI where I can, you know, do I see like, where we're going Pretty well. Because I've been thinking about this space for five years at least, since Jasper AI predated.

So I mean, Nick, like, with like people serving clients as well, right? It's like them streamlining their fulfillment practices and bettering client results. A tool like you showed me, that's going to absolutely not only improve their client results, but also improve their client retention. Right. Even for attracting business for themselves. Like me using this tool to put out tweets that speak to my dream ICP or create YouTube videos that speak to my dream ICP is only going to put me in like a much merrier position. Right. I think, like, honestly, the tool that you show me is we've of course used Claude and stuff. But one thing that I'm that I super like is the integration with social media platforms and the auto population that is like super intriguing.

Yeah. It has all the ones that are relevant to like us marketers right now. And if there is something now, if you get in early and you see the founder's vision, like ask. I would say if anyone has any questions about whether you should build on Delphi still. And at this point, if you watch this far, I would be surprised if there is a better tool. But by better, usually people means it has an integration source that Delphi doesn't. I talk to DAR and their team all the time and like, stuff is on the roadmap. Assuming that you want the same stuff as I do, I would advocate harder for it. You can, but you can ask his. I found some little workarounds to get their roadmap. Like you can ask his Delphi bot, which is public. I'm like, what are you working on this quarter? Like that you're excited about. And instead of asking, what's the Q4 feature roadmap, right. So like, they have to. And they seem like they probably wouldn't care anyway if a competitor came in there and tried to roadmap hijack or whatever. So like, look at the stuff I talked to him. Matt Ryder's Delphi and Coles is getting his ready as we speak too. I'm just trying to have like the Avengers on my. Instead of all these tabs today which is like chaotic content creation for me for sure I'm just chaining and I open up a new tab.

So it's all.

It's never pre planned but I start the day fresh and then I just keep chaining so that I can remember at the end of the day on a screenshot my chain of thinking of where I went.

So I by the way I must say like how do you focus with that number of tabs open? I would lose my mind bro. I would lose my mind.

Yeah. So like I'm. I'm focused right now. So like today I come into it with either there's two heuristics and this brings me back to this one start here. This is the critical path from yesterday of my focus but on creation days when I'm doing content it's just create Are you creating? And I Did I post in here.

Once before mention it?

No, not that one. I did two and you only get one more. I've learned in here we go depends like here's how I focus the only thing for matters growth operators like for you as an agency owner I put like my found like foundations or concepts like whatever my worldview is in this box. These ones you can change but generating strategy sessions goal doing strategy sessions, executing. So like what's foundational for you? What are your values? How do you view the world? What is the primary action or what's the primary action right here and then.

What is the goal?

That is how you make your own version of that Mine in creation mode is this the only three things that matter today? Writing, copy, making content. We're doing that right now. We're doing it like multiple times and we can syndicate this talking to users, chat or call. We're doing that too. Should probably update to say that just talk to network, talk to users same idea. Talk to customers, talk to sales prospects, share insights to the whole team. So I am focused today by my.

Definition of this the sheet Interesting.

Well it's that like a daily process or like have you got one that kind of obliges with like a monthly.

Yeah so the actual like my actual now my personal heuristic is is it this this day is a bit of a blend but for the most day this is a creation day heavy if it goes over 4 hours creation I just look at this. This is printed in my office. But right now I'm at the airport about to go visit Pace in Nashville here for a meetup. So I'm on what I would consider a manager schedule. And managers usually manage with, like, their calendar. So either this guides and focuses my day and I just flow through my day here, but the goal is always flow. So, like, no matter what, what focuses me is either my calendar or the three things that matter for me personally.

Intriguing. Intriguing. I know. No run on Twitter. He's kind of like a esoteric health coach, right? He says that he sets specific days for, like, specific accomplishments. Like one day, maybe the content day. One day, maybe a sales call day. Right. Like, how do you. What. What's been the optimal, like, split for you?

I'm glad you asked. I'm gonna. I'm gonna find out it by doing this, like, putting the reps in and ever. Everyone's got like, after. After I started mapping because what I do is usually research and sounds like maybe you're like me. You have a tendency to. To research as a first step before jumping into something again, like a how person. How people like us end up teaching courses, helping with courses. So we just like to learn. And learners usually early in their life were given books, and books became a. What's called an inhibitor or a barrier to action. Right. You don't read a good book like Harry Potter, put it down and think of business ideas generally. I didn't at that point, thank God. So it was like, for me, I stopped. I only started reading Nonfiction around maybe 18 or 19 years old. Right around, like, college time. Up to that point. And even until I was 22, 23, I was primarily reading novels. Not. Not or like fiction, let's call it versus non fiction. And then a certain point, my career, like, became the most important thing, I guess, post college. And it was primarily non fiction. Over. Over fiction. And I always get to think, like, with copywriting, we get to do both, like, and that's probably why I love it. I get to write fiction and non fiction at the same exact time.

Yeah.

And with me, like, even us doing this right now, like, you have those elements that you love about fiction and. And non fiction. Right. That are both. Both here. So to me, that was various, maybe a more esoteric way of saying G cow. Like, is it a G cow day? Or is it a look at my three things that matter day for me? And to do that effectively. It took me, like, I've been off of the org chart now for new reach again for six months. I've been on and off three different times as CMO or let's call it CEO and then CMO twice. Let's just say for the sake of growth operators out there. So like running the show, everyone behind the scenes. My business partner was in the spotlight versus me removing impersonal brand and us publishing more brands versus us removing ourselves from the org chart and hiring a CEO to run the company versus us having to come back in and figure out how to work with each other again at a different stage. So I've seen pretty much every, not every combination, but a lot of problems all the way up to the stage that we're at. But I'd never seen anyone do like $100 million on a launch like Ramosi this year. Like my mind's still getting blown and I'm learning things a ton. This has probably been the biggest year of learning and to learn well for me and to like actually distill it simply is a matter of just time and me putting in the reps of teaching. So by attempting to teach I. Sam Oven's like master designer. He usually comes up with the outline and we taught people to kind of chunk microchunk. I did that. It just like for whatever reason that is not helpful for people who have inductive reasoning processes. They still get stuck. So for Sam, he's like, you know, he would be like, no, just do it, do it my way. And that's the binary overpower like of just like either put a gun to their head kind of thing and teach them do it my way. Or like me, if you want to give the nuance, which I will. It hurts me not to. Very, very few things are binary with me. If you want to give nuance, you have to think. Inductive reasoning loves flow just like money loves speed. So whatever it is, you have to pre plan your flow and put you in an environment that is conducive to that is what I would say. And for me, GCAL allows me to flow through as a manager. I can run to meeting to meeting, be like a few minutes late. I was a few minutes late into this one because I was coming from something. And yeah, in general I have my everyone else on my team's calendar up and I'm looking at it side by side, kind of like it's Tetris a little bit. Right. And at the end of the day I'm looking at rise to see how you'll notice like how I define productivity and rise is different. So right now we're in. Yeah. We're I guess into my day, you can see my calendar over here and you can see kind of my productivity on the computer. And for me, because I have days like this all the time in our business, despite not being on the org chart, I'm often there when people come in and I like to help solve problems. So the, the Elon Musk version of you want to be a content creator but you're running a business like how. How is Nick figuring this out or doesn't seem like he's figuring it out. Whatever your perception is, the answer of how to do it is just turn, demonstrate and turn your day into content. And it requires a few things but to me like I'm been creating content, I'm hitting my percent of target so far and it's just that I haven't documented any clients or projects or tasks today. But I'll do that later. So to me this, this tool is helpful. So I always am just like execute and review and then iterate iteration loops and don't try to pre plan your productivity and focus. That doesn't work as well for inductive as it does deductive reasoning people.

What's this tool by the way? Right. It's my first time hearing about it. I think I've like.

So I, I, well I've used a lot of things historically over the years. This actually I am agency owners. Anyone who's an agency owner or was this was given to me and was so helpful when we had an agency. And it's still helpful. Automatic time tracking is. Wasn't recommended to me but at some point like we weren't tracking time as an agency and they're like, you guys don't get. I'm like, I don't bill on time though. I'm like, I get it. I used to work at PWC briefly and we would bill clients the time. So you had to. I was reprimanded for, you know, inflating client like numbers just like, oh, we worked, you know, eight hours on that client. They're like no in like 15 minute increments. What did you do? Because otherwise that's like fraudulent billing practice. So I just had always been aware of the idea. I just let go of it. And most I hated time tracking. That's why I didn't want to do it. I was like, no. If I found an automatic way to bucket my time that I could maintain flow, I would do it. And I did with timecamp first which is what you're seeing here and then clock with CK K I think 2Ks at the end does it for our team now. And I'm testing out Rise as Rise AI as the next iteration of that something that integrates with rippling. We have to use for our full company at scale. But what you want to get to is margin in relative real time ideally. And if you can't get it into real time, 24 hour review cycles of just like where did my day go? How many like how many times have you spent way, way too much time with a client who paid you less than another client who pays you more.

And doesn't require time?

Always happens. That's the agency owner.

It's the number one problem I've observed in agencies is spending the wrong the right time with the right client in perfect. Like I can't even do it even. And I'm the one who like like closed half of them. I'm like, I know this client pays me more. But on a zoom call for, you know, things are urgent, they call you at 8. It's hard to say no. And a lot of agency people, especially your employees, if you guys are business owners, they just aren't used to it. They'll have to learn the client management side. And I was not good at it. I was doing some dumb stuff in the very beginning for clients like anything, right? Anything for money. Now I'm like, okay, guard rails, that guardrail is this. But I would just look at these summaries and just be like dope. This is, you know, I don't know what your kind of thought is on utilization rate versus productivity rate, but in general I'm happy if over 50% of someone's like time is billable essentially internally. So to me I'm like, okay, that means roughly like I should have been higher if I was working like inside my own agency. I should be at least 4 hours of billable client. Like why would I have 6 hours of internal meetings or biz dev? I don't know that day. This is an example but you get the idea. So in general you're trying to get to that margin and time camp does it still. So does Clock. So does Rise. And there might be some others, but it helped dramatically. I was starting to catch. I'm like, we spent, you know, 40 man hours this week on our lowest paying client. What is going on guys? Collectively. So yep, that's. And it's done by keyword detection and there's privacy features too. For anyone worried it basically like right now even mine is off currently and I need to fix it. But it's looking at my screen and screenshotting. If you wanted to for me, I do that. But you can turn that off and just have it basically bucket by keyword. Like it's SEO so you can be like keyword stuff, Astro flipping, Jamil Damji, like real keywords that are unique IDs in your URL for AD accounts, everything. I just stuff in there. And we would auto bucket and the whole team never has to worry about time reporting. And I can make accurate P and L decisions. So that is, that's the benefit.

Intriguing. Yeah. Like a much different approach to what we take. I think the concept.

Yeah.

What's. What's your approach? I'm curious. Like mine is based off of basically pure precision and financial like decisions there.

I mean, bro, we, the way that we structure the agency, I mean our team is very lean. Like we have got like a very lean informeting agency. Like we've only got like a few. We've got like one copyright fundability building team, tech guide assistant. Right. But the way that we structure the productivity tasks is like two weekly meetings, set expectations, go over what's been done and just what else is accountable. Yeah, it's like, to be honest, it's like super streamlined and it's been working like a charm for us. Like, that being said, right? We're not like a 50 million, 100 million a year corporation. Right.

Like, I like, it's hard to grow an agency and scale an agency to the level you can scale a brand to. Like it's very hard operationally.

Yeah. I heard someone say like a quote, like when you scale clients, you scale headaches. I kind of agree. Like every client comes with its unique questions, unique way of getting results. That's. That's super intriguing.

Yeah. And my tap out point was around like 15. I was like, all right guys, this doesn't get easier for me. Even like you guys are in pods. I'm not like under this, like this.

All of them are.

All of them end up calling me when you can't resolve their hardest problems. So like I'm the last filter and then agency owner like dies from a heart attack. Right. Or whatever happens after that. I was like, I'm getting.

I mean, yeah, I mean like the beauty that like Informant has created is like kind of you can begin optimizing it for quality like rather than quantity. Right. Like you don't need, let's say 10, 15, retaining clients to pay you people came up like the way that we see ourselves. Right. It's kind of like having CMO like capabilities in his office and being responsible for multiple departments within an info product business. For example front end conversion mechanism and sales team consulting. Right. But the more we can do for a client.

Yeah functional.

It makes. Yeah. So the more it makes sense for that client to give away that probably that's why we don't really need let's say 15 partners. We're optimizing for a decent portfolio of these info brands. Right. That's the direction that we're taking.

Sweet. So this leads me to a very interesting question is you are well positioned to make the switch anytime you want to to to brand since you have functional because that's the main thing that agency owner with a bunch of clients who's already like scrambled and like doesn't have time. How do I either launch my own personal brand or find someone to partner with and like do a you know, do an equity split as opposed to take a retainer. You guys are already well set up. Like it's hard when you only have one piece of the puzzle everywhere. Like you got like your aces over on these clients and they manage the best clients and my people that manage the worst clients over here. So that's to me I don't know if that was strategic in that sense or why you guys did it. But I, I am curious as to what either the reasoning was or why where you're headed and from a leverage.

Point of view and escaping what to call the commodity bucket. Let's say now we were only specializing in media buying or we only done emails. Right. Extremely commoditized. This client can easily go to upwork fiber, find freelancer and like offload that workload for like super cheap. Right. But when you're responsible for now traffic creatives high quality lead generation, converting that lead, ascending that lead, ensuring they attend their call and showing that they piff. Right. Like these multiple departments is where in a good way you kind of create that dependency effect but also maximizing the results for your clients. Right. So direction that we've taken.

Yeah.

There's no client side black boxing or client side walls creative in the creative like now I'm up to speed because when I say media buying originally media buyers under me I, I structure everything is expert generalists. So like they're basically directors of marketing and I have multiple of them and they all have their own strengths. However now we're in like a hybrid let's call it in our work but we, we own it all. I'm trying to think if we're dependent on any Contractors right now, merchants financing.

That's the stuff that even financing we.

Do in house financing. But yeah, that's for the most part like web providers, aws.

That's.

That's it. That feels good, right? It's like we can solve our own problems almost wholly. And that gives me. That's honestly the feeling that I, that I didn't have running a marketing agency. We didn't have enough scope of service for me to feel like we had true moat with the client wait service in what way? In like, okay, so like the clients. I'll give you an example. The clients that we would typically get because I was known for VSL call funnel back at consulting. So me coming out, the easiest thing I could sell or the thing people would want from me is either media.

Buying or they just thought it was.

Media buying or like Facebook ads. They would say, I, I need you to run my Facebook ads. I was like, okay, into what? Because I. I'm like, I'm not the best option for several different things. And for me, I already had that mindset and mentality of like, I'm just going to tell you the truth. Like me and Sam pretty much just shoot straight. So I'm like, well, I'll tell you not to do something if I truly think it's dumb, but I'll give you choices if I think that maybe you need choices. So for me, I was like, okay, I'll do. I was like, yeah, I'm going to be good at it. If you're like, if you're doing a VSL call funnel and basically I'll show you the old growth model. I'm like, if basically you have something like this. Russell need to tell Russell that I have is old. This is not up to date. I made a copy of it but his old funnel board, which is super useful. And I found that the useful game is here. I'm like, all right, guys. Like, yes, I'm good at Facebook ads, but if you're not doing something like this, then like if you can't find you don't. Your offer doesn't categorize into any of these buckets. Like, and it's in my cool funnels. Like this means I'm not good at it and I haven't explored events. We're good at that now I'm not. But our team is like, but I wouldn't have done an event funnel. I would have been like a Charlotte Fear. Want someone who's done real estate like Legion and directly to a seminar and event.

Right.

I would have preferred them. I'd refer to people to like Eddie Maloufe bad like one tempo like other agency owners who are just better because I care. I care about the client even if they're not my client. Which. Yeah. So like invisible funnels. That means I just. And you know a funnel that's. I haven't pinpointed how it works yet. It's just kind of funny. So these are the things that I was maybe getting bit like people were reaching out and I wanted to maybe learn but I knew like weren't my really. They should have had tags with probably the. If I was more buttoned up as an agency owner, the partner.

Right.

That I would refer them to and I would have asked for a referral fee. I wasn't that smart yet and I'm still not. Like I just dropped a lot of Delphi praise without an affiliate link. So I'm still learning. But.

Yeah, affiliate links soon land.

Yeah.

But honestly, I mean like even just getting the feature out, like, I mean the insides out of the tool is going to captivate a lot of people. Like for real, like it just even captivated me, you know, so like just the exposure online, I think it was a huge epiphany moment I've received because like of course it's all about leverage and a tool like that, it does create that leverage. The fact that it's auto populated, you know. So we'll be of course taken a more in depth look into that man. Like I appreciate you showing me the ins and outs of it.

Sweet. Dude. I should have asked and now I'm thinking what else did I in the spirit of flow, not ask that I should have been a bit more prepared to ask what channel is this content? Well, where will people see this? Whether it's reels or the full.

I'm. I'm thinking mainly YouTube. Okay. That's my YouTube long form.

Right. That's my number one growth organic channel. I'm like, so long as all roads lead to YouTube for me. They can start with Twitter or they can start with me. Just, you know, a bunch of tabs open and I can just get to YouTube by the end of the day. Yep.

Yeah. I mean one thing, I like your spirit in terms of you've got these tabs open, you can easily navigate to which which tab corresponds to the necessary topic. That's like a good skill to develop. That was super interesting.

Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, we'll be using it mainly for like YouTube distribution. I believe in long form content. Of course I'll like take away like key elements, put it on like Twitter, like tease it on the newsletter, you know, so there are like. But yeah, like, are you looking to like distribute as well?

Like, yeah, I am. That's why I wanted to come in here. We got into what. What's the time? How much time do we have?

We've got like one two, seven, like one hour, like 27 minutes.

Okay, let me just make sure that my calendar is saying the same thing too. And I'm not gonna. All right, sweet. I have a half an hour more that I can go, then I have a hard stop in a half an hour.

Yeah, I've got about three minutes. Okay.

All right, sweet. So in general, I'll think about distribution then on my flight for this. Because yeah, like I always tell people that and I'm like, now I'm in creator mode. And I have to remind people, like promoting it without promoting it, it doesn't mean anything. So if you drop it on YouTube, what's your typical promotion of it? And then I'll tell you what I typically do.

Yeah, for YouTube, I mean like through I've got like an email list, have a specific. I sent to like 3.45k people like super engaged. They all came organic. I've got IG. I'm also Twitter and I've also got a private community of offer owners, info marketing agency owners, freelancer, direct response marketers. 700 people. It'll be dropped inside there as well and by like omnichannel bombardment.

Yes, me. That's the game I'm playing that no one can even see. Like some people have been like, whoa, it seems like you're everywhere. And I'm like, no, well, I am. But yes, like not like you can't even see it all. So with those I do like focusing on what's the critical path or what's the fulcrum that we want to affect, which is YouTube. We want YouTube organic. Let's just call it me. I want watch time. Normally watch time or depth, I don't really care. I'll take views. Let's just say views and subscribers for you, that that would be great. This is a well viewed episode. At least more people that follow you. That would be cool. And we have these channels on your side and we have what I consider every asset and channel that I can think of with me and my brand. So I do a lot of channel mapping and you just giving me those. The chain that I typically use would be drop it in the private community first, the raw or like you know, do whatever you want and just give people that have already paid you money and exclusive and just be like hey guys, I'm probably going to post this next week. Like the polished version. So I trust like always without any post edits that people that you trust and that have paid you money, like I'll take the risk and you know, if there's something that I showed that we shouldn't have or whatever, we can always edit it out in a private community as opposed to taking down the video is the usually what happens. And that happened with me earlier when in my sake for transparency I was like I will, you know, do a funnel tear down. Won't say who it was just because he asked me to take it down. But the funnel is dope and I funnel hacked it. And he's like I would just prefer that not to be out there. Which I was like oh yeah, should have asked.

Sorry.

So I'd say that's the move exclusive in there once you've checked it for whatever you want to check it for. And again like this one, I don't care. So it's more about for you. Then I post it to usually the email list and then what was the other thing you said on X and socials. Yep. My gift is if you can do any, any or all of that I will reciprocate too in distribution and then it becomes a fun game of usually. I'll give you this as a benchmark and parameter. I am not. I'm just blessed that anyone wants to interview me about things because at this stage I'm like they must see some sort of value in me and because like you certainly wouldn't be interviewing me to like grow on social because I don't have a ton of social presence. But this is an example of the time was I uploaded 5.4. There was like maybe some growth hacking. I knew that actually interviewed Jeremy. Jeremy Mary who's. Who is Tom Bily's ex director of marketing. Worked with Noah Kagan I think too and some other big names in this space that people know. And he liked to interview people like you and me. So this is yeah like maybe what'll happen if. If the right type of promotion is done. If the wrong type of promotion is done, it ends up being this. And then this is me. If you ever want to run ads.

What am I going to learn in this thing?

So like when me and Sam taught playing to the bias the Facebook algorithm you really have to show people how well you know the advanced stuff about Facebook and The basically just by it needs to be self evident that you can tamper with the algorithm and inflate view count. So this to me I think was maybe one of our most viewed videos and that was by design on my side. So I was like Sam, you distill all the like me and him brainstormed basically all the ninja shit that we did and even tell people 10% of it like. Like this just Sam narrows and did docs really well. So he taught like nine things that we just thought were the most like basically the the coolest. Let's just call it slash actually true and invisible secrets like that most people don't know exposing stuff that most people don't know about how the algo works is ish the goal and then I messed with it until we had and there's so many ways I can get to this number. So to me I'm like how. How much do we want to play the view game? Because I just want people to find it valuable. But if we want to hack growth, hack stuff, I will.

Yeah for sure. I mean I'm going to do like a little way I'll do like a quick picture and then also within the production itself of course we can do all the SEO rankings and things with that realm. Like what is the best channel to like get people to connect to you? Because for some context, right we. I had like a private master class and people reached out to the person conducting the masters about like private consultations or like even opening calls and stuff. So there is a perfect opportunity for you know, collaboration. But we're like a good platform to connect to you.

It might change by the time this drops. Like right now what I'm trying to think what will be permanent though my Delphi bot could be CTA or the school group there. But I would just say that I am posting right now in active. This is maybe more helpful on Ignition X I don't check in that much so don't maybe do that. But I am on an X right now and I'm on Facebook.

I think I should wait your M for your Instagram Nick Fish, right. I think I'll show you a follow a while ago.

School these are the only places that I really care about the like if I post there I care about the content and it's me, it's not AI at some point, I don't know once this thing gets good I might start posting other places. But for me right now my Delphi bot is to help people faster in the comments as opposed to make A content speed run. Right. Which I could.

All right, easy. Yeah. I'll do like the ignx. I'll put your X your Instagram. I think I. Nick Fish. Right? Is that the right one? Nick Fish, right.

Never do what I'm doing right now. You should always come into a podcast with a clear CTA that you want to. So to me I'm always like yeah, that's what I would say is like Nick, bring your book. Bring your book. You just you know spent six years and talk about that only. But yeah, no, I truly just did this just to meet man like meeting you is the goal and you taught me things already.

So thank you for sure.

As I mentioned. Right. Like even me messaging you, it's kind of for like a sophisticated conversation. Right. Like I was. I said to myself I can come prepared with a list of questions and make it seem like a typical podcast introductions and all these things. But I just believe we can do.

That in the future if you want. Yeah.

I'll be more than open to experiment. But this was great because of course we were showing the insides out of the tools how you operate like the daily schedules, even unveiling our internal systems. That's where the most value is achieved. So I think it was a great conversation. Yeah I'm like five minutes and yeah me too late to here. But yeah like I think my not take a managed to record the code. Right?

Yep. And yeah let me bring them back in. Let's just see. We had a lot guys so there's almost no way that this isn't recorded multi speaker and with the note takers. Yeah there's particip seven participants and five are note takers. I'm a screenshot this for my team. I try not to get overwhelmed with which one is the best recording. I think any of them are probably fine. But you see I don't know if you do when I screen share my whole entire screen. Can you see the side paneling of zoom but my read AI note taker does trailers so if I do teasers really quick this is more for my team. Read AI does highlight reel already kind of like a bad opus AI but my normal chaining for our brands is throw into opus for quick reels that that and run them as ad concepts test come back and give your actual marketing content production team good ad ideas instead of bad half baked concepts. So that's. That's what I would do from here typically. And I will. You know what I. I want to follow my own process maybe once and just see if it works a little bit. So I always do one short reel, even though they don't serve me very well right now.

Now why not split us is the way. Yeah, but Nick, my man, it was a pleasure finally connecting. I have heard a lot of good things and it was of course great for us to digitally connect. This one was more of a randomized, sophisticated conversation. But yeah, man, I'll be more than open to doing like a. More like laid out one with like clear questions and guidelines. But yeah, man, I believe it was a very insightful conversation.

Right? Like the. The prepared one. Like if something that you see now. Now I just showing you a bunch of stuff now. I kind of know our skill in depth. I definitely need help with again, the acceleration and pulling that concept to. To fruition of the who how combination. Basically, you can tell like, deli is my how, that clay skin is my who and then where they're headed. If someone can help me with that. That's the master plan. The or let's call it step phase two of my four step master plan here.

So there's balloons coming in the zoom meeting. Balloons are here. Celebrations are being made.

All the balloons came up 100 and these. Right? I love.

Wait, wait, I think that's like the thumb upper, like the actual.

Too close.

There's two thumbs up, one thumb up, two thumbs down, one thumb down. This makes it rain. This makes it fireworks. This makes it lasers. This makes it hard. So, you guys, I'll do that another day. I trained the team ever on zoom visual cues. It's probably low grade priority here, but there we are.

There are. There are specific articulations who evoke emotions. There we are.

Yes.

Nick, my man, once again, I'm gonna say, bro, absolute pleasure. And yeah, man, I'll keep in a loop of how all the distribution goes. We'll run another one in like, another time. Because I know that there's specific buckets that we can go over, you know, like even touching on paid ads, conversion mechanisms, essentially, whatever the mechanism is. Right. There's so many topics that we can touch on, but yeah, man, it was great, man.

Talk soon, man. Bye.

All right.