El debate entre el Rabino Yosef Mizrachi y el diseñador Barhami Hakakian

Good evening, gentlemen. We are here today, b'ezrat Hashem, to do a friendly debate between two Jewish people. One is a kohen and one is not. And the people who organized this, the idea is that Mr. Khakakian would ask me all the questions he wants to ask, and my goal will be To answer his question, also the idea was that I can prove to him that the Torah, it can be proven scientifically, which means it can be proven that a human being was unable to write the Torah. Everybody understands that if a person is able to prove that the Torah was written by the Creator of the world, it's a lot easier to follow what's in it. But as long as a person cannot prove it, it's a matter of faith. Faith, faith. You want to believe, you believe. You don't want to believe, it's up to you. It's up to you if you want to take the risk or not based on X amount of knowledge. It's not a perfect knowledge. Today we're going to try, B'ezrat Hashem, to leave this room that both of us and all of you will have no doubt that the Torah is divine. I'm going to do my best to answer all these questions. And please, no interference from the audience. Respect the event. We'll try to do it as friendly as possible. Please.

Okay, so I get my information straight. According to Torah, the world was built in 6 days or 5 days, and 6th day was Adam and Eve, and they were the first creatures. And then after them, God created the rest. Am I correct?

Yes.

When was this period?

5,775 years ago.

Okay, so according to Torah, Earth was created 5,700 and change years ago.

Okay, how are we going to reconcile this with what science has proven otherwise?

Okay, so the answer to your question is science until this moment has never been proven, proven, not speculate, that the world is more than 2,000 years old. As a result of that, I made a very serious research to see if any scientist came out with a solid proof that no one can contradict, and I posted on my website Divine Information I posted a film by a scientist, non-Jewish American from Texas by name Robert Gentry. He made two films. It's called Fingerprints of the Creation, when he take all the scientific research that was done to calculate the age of the world and criticize one by one and show you where the speculation is, how it's incorrect, it's not accurate. And the conclusion of his research, and you can see it on a 1-hour video, which leaves not even 1% doubt that the world is only a few thousand years old. Now, to make a long story short, because this question can be 5 hours answer, but I will do it in a very short way. First, you have to know one thing: the scientists have been proving that the world has all the lakes and the rivers that connect to the big ocean. And they carry with them every year sand and debris and minerals. It's all connected to the big ocean. The calculation is that the rivers and the lakes are carrying with them 400 million tons of salt every year connecting to the big ocean. If based on their calculation, 400 million tons of salt. If you claim the world is only 1 million years old, not 300 billion or all kinds of other names, other ages that the scientists are trying to give. If the world is only 1 million years old, multiply by 400 million tons of salt, the world, the oceans will not have one drop of water. It will be a huge pile of salt all the way from the bottom of the ocean all the way to the moon. There will not be one drop of water in the world. Why? You do the math. 1 million multiplied by 400 million tons of salt. Ton is 2,200 pounds, in case you didn't know. So therefore it would be a huge amount of salt. However, there's another way to prove it.

If you—

I don't understand.

No, I said no interference from the audience. Not from any side.

I'm not understanding it either. I mean—

Wait, I didn't finish it. Now there are also Another way to prove it.

If now I will ask you—

I don't want to cut you off. You're continuing as though the rest of the statements that you made are necessarily correct.

Okay, can you prove to me please you have with you a scientific proof that calculates the age of the world, that it's agreed by all scientists? Show me one research like this in history.

That's a good question.

I'll tell you.

Okay.

Neither one of us are scientists. Neither one of our individually are qualified to speak as a scientist. However, we are all qualified to read based on scientific research. For every one scientist that may or may not be there that claims Earth is 2,000, 5,000, whatever years old, there are probably 99 more who claim otherwise. Law of nature, basic logic of human being would say, well, if you go to 100 qualified people, and it doesn't matter what the topic would be, whether it's medicine, science, literature, if 99 of them claim one thing and one claims different, Logic dictates that you go towards the 99%. Science, through its— first of all, it's science that got us to where we are today, where we can have this debate, we can have it recorded, we can have cell phones, we can have cars, we can live the way we— it's all product of science. So Just saying that science didn't prove it and just making that claim and putting it out there simply because I don't know one person for whatever reason they had or they didn't have, and I'm not qualified to qualify them or disqualify them. I don't think either one of us are. Our trades are different. But logic says if 99 scientists, starting from probably the most renowned people in the world, have believed otherwise. So I don't think that writing of one person is not going to change all of those, at least not logically.

Okay, you presented it in a very beautiful way, that 99% of the scientists agree on one age, and there's 1% which is my side disagree, or 2 or 5 or 10. Now I promise you that obviously after 20 years that I speak and these questions I was asked I got this question at least 10,000 times, and I did a very, very serious research because I tell you what, because there are certain opinions among Judaism, speculations as well, that the calculation started from the time of Adam, not actually the 6th day of the creation. Therefore, the first 6 days were unlimited amount of time, which can be billions of years old. However, with me, I don't go with what convenient for my opinion. I go what the truth is, and that's why I made a very serious research, and I found completely different than what you say. I found hundreds of different research by major universities all over the world, including Israel, America, Europe, that came with completely different calculations. It range anywhere from 4 million years old to 300 billion years old. I want to ask you, as a clever gentleman, which I heard you are, so I want to ask you one simple question. If all of us, this large audience here, has to guess how old the person is, we take Mr. X, and I ask all the audience, please, based on your calculation, tell me how old he is. And every one of the 100 people here wrote a different age. And I see it range from anywhere from 20 to 100. Is this considered objective science? It's not an objective science. That's all speculative science. Now I promise you, if you make your homework well and you watch this film, I promise you with no doubt that you will never dare to ask this question ever again in your entire life. I promise you, I give you a word of a gentleman. After you watch the film of Robert Gentry, He calculated extrapolation, carbon dating, carbon-14, all the speculation and calculation, and he shows you coals, how they calculate based on coals. Every one of the methods that they check and learn in the most major universities, and they publish thousands of books about it, how it's all 100% nonsense and it's all based on speculation. Now again, even if the world was billions and millions of years old, remember I have a way out of it. Why? Because the Torah really started the calculation from the birthday of Adam. The calculation that we know the age of the world from Adam's birthday, which was on the 6th day of the creation. From then we do all the calculation, 5775. But again, I could have go around your question, but I'm not going around your question. I'm still insisting that the world is only few thousand years old.

I appreciate you don't go around it. However, however, if you even claim that there was no being on Earth prior to 5,000 or 6,000 years ago, again, science and archaeologists are proving otherwise. They are finding dinosaurs from millions of years ago.

The dinosaurs are only 4,200 years old. They all died in the flood of Noah. All the bones of the dinosaurs that were found are only maximum, maximum 5,775 years old. Also, they all died because they did not enter the ark, and the ark was found around Turkey in the highest mountain, Ararat. Nobody builds an ark in the size of a football field in the highest mountain in Turkey. When they build big boats, they build it on the beach, that as soon as it's done, They push it into the water. There is no way thousands of years ago, even today with the technology that we have, to carry a boat the size of this building here in Manhattan, to carry it all the way from the mountain and bring it all the way to the ocean. Even the dumbest person in history will not build an ark as was found, and I can even show you the picture of it, exactly the measurements of the Torah, next to the Turkey on the highest mountain of Ararat. They measure it and that's based on the research, it's the Noah's Ark. Now, the dinosaurs did not enter the ark.

They all died 4,200 years ago.

With all due respect, I mean, you are making statements that probably you and people that believe in it, you know, and we respect your beliefs, but scientists with science, when you tell me I'm going to prove to you scientifically and you deny and you reject the most basic fundamentals of science that says all of these have been and there are. I'm not a scientist and I don't know how to go about finding these ages, but they have enough scientific tools, means, ways to find out all of these days. This is—

When I say I'm going to prove to you scientifically, be careful with what I said. I can prove to you that the Torah could never be written by human being. It was only able to be written by the Creator of the world. From that statement that I made, you went to a completely separate issue. If you want to focus on what I started, then I can start showing you the proof. However, I want only one request from you, and then we move on to the next subject, if you don't mind. Show me, please, by name I want to hear the name of the university, the name of the scientist, the name of the research that you claim that proves beyond any doubt that the world is more than 5,775 years old. The audience that will watch it tomorrow on the internet, they will have the right to go and check your research and to see if it was proven scientifically. Tell me your source, tell me your source, please.

Hold on a second.

No, no, wait. No, tell me now the source because this is your opening statement.

No, no, no, no. Let me first qualify something.

Okay.

You're telling me if scientifically I show you studies. Yes. Probably a lot more qualified people than—

Than Robert Gentry?

Than Robert Gentry.

Why? What makes them more qualified than him? He's a world-known scientist as well.

Well, I'm sure there are more world-known scientists. Unknown scientist. I'm saying collectively they would be more qualified. I'm not saying, I'm not taking anything away from him, I just don't know.

Did they all come to the same age?

It's not coming to the same age, but agreeing that 5,700 is not the number or anywhere near it is a whole different thing.

Oh wait, but if they have so many different ages, obviously you know they're not, they don't know what they're talking about.

That is absolutely true.

Because if everyone goes around 4 million years old, let's say, one say 4.1, one say 4.3, one say 3.9 million, then we know they have something in common that they are not far from the target. But when one say 10 million years old and his friend from the same university say 300 billion years old, and when I turn the Discovery Channel one day and I hear that the world was 20 million years ago, and in another show they say 300 billion years ago when the Earth started to shift. I want you to tell me how exactly it's an exact science.

I have never heard 300 billion, but what I have done, what I read, I don't do research, I read, was in the billions, in the 20 range, 20 to 30 billion years. However, everyone collectively, collectively agrees that's in the billions, not in the thousands. There is a huge— Not true.

The most popular age of the world among scientists is 4 million years old. Check, check your homework. I'm sorry, check. I'm against the 4 million, but I don't know how you came with billions. The most accepted accepted by science opinion is 4 million years old. Now I suggest if we look, we can argue about this. I say what I have to say, you say what you have to say, the people will be able to do the research. I promise everyone here, and I, you know, I'm not going to make myself a fool. After you watch the film that I posted, it's not a rabbi, I posted an American non-Jewish scientist that spoke about all the scientific methods to calculate the age of the world and he destroyed one by one and no one of the scientists was able to ever give him an answer until this day. So when someone would be able to come against his research, how he destroyed whatever they found, then we can continue and see.

But so far, I'm still giving you one more chance to tell me what is your research, who is the scientist Which university you are following? Give me a name of a world-known scientist that can swear that the world is billions of years old, and let the people search and see if what he says is based on speculation or it's based on objective science. That's all.

You say what you have to say. I saw— obviously we're not going to start searching on the internet now and waste the whole night. You say what you say, I say what I say. I want to more get into the point that you're trying to disqualify the Torah. I want you to be able to prove to me that the Torah was made by people, and you want me to prove to you that the Torah could not be written by people. I think that's more important than to— because remember, even if you were able to prove to me that the world is more than 6,000 years old, you still did not contradict the Torah, because many rabbis claim that the calculation starts from Adam. Therefore we don't have any disagreement here, which means it's not relevant to prove Judaism. We are here to prove if Judaism is a divine religion or if Judaism is a man-made religion like the Quran or like the New Testament and 80 other thousand religions and cults who started after Judaism. We only care, and I'm sure you have the same interest.

Absolutely.

Let me just make a small interject. Professor Stephen Hawking claims this, and I think he's more renowned in the world than anyone else, or probably one of the most, yes? He's an authority, right? He's the one who claims such. If you want, I mean, one name, there are thousands.

Did you check how many times they say one thing and then a few years later Later he came and contradicted everything he said. Did you check his record?

No, no. I tell you what, after—

no, obviously he claimed, he claimed in the past based on science certain things, and then later he came and he said everything you heard until now erased. The world was created from a pea. Pea, you know, a pea. Peas, peas that the Persian puts in the rice. That's how he claimed the world came from a pea. I can let you listen to the recording.

No, no, no, you are misrepresenting it, Rabbi. No, no, no, no, no. Their theory of evolution or inception is a theory that has not been proven, which is called the Big Bang theory. That is not, that is in itself a theory. The theory of universe. Is what you're suggesting, and there are still debates on it, and they call it a theory. They do not call it a proven method. Don't forget, all the scientific findings throughout history originally were a theory, and then they learned to prove it as such. But having said that one, he is not— and I don't know what research you are referring to that Humanity changed. People do research, people come up with theories based on that one, they follow, sometimes they make adjustments. But the concept of having, putting an age on Earth, although you don't want to go there, I mean, you keep on saying, well, I can always say that one. I don't think our issue is, I think the issue should be fact-finding, not, okay, I'm going to give you an answer to keep you quiet.

Okay, repeat what I told you. Can you prove to me that Stephen Hawking proved— remember, the word prove means not a calculation that's based on common sense or speculation that sounds logical or things that are convincing when you hear it. I'm talking proof. Proof, it's math. You know what it means? 2 plus 2, it's 4. That can be proven. All kinds of speculation that makes a lot of sense, makes sense, I can send you millions of speculations that make a lot of sense. But I want to tell you one thing. Just until recently, all the scientists in the world had a major argument. It divided the scientific world into two groups. Half of the scientists approximately claim that the world was always here. Always here. There's no beginning to the world. The other half of the—

What do you mean world?

You mean Earth?

The world, the Earth.

Earth, Earth, Earth. You can say also universe. Earth, universe, actually they were speaking about the whole universe. So the whole universe was always here, which means our star was always here and there was no beginning to it. The other group of scientists claim no, the world had a beginning. Now you have to understand what's behind this, behind this argument. If the people who say the world was always here, then they circumvent the issue who created the world, because it was always here, therefore there's no creator. The other scientists, and there's nothing to do with religion, it's just a pure scientific argument. The other group of scientists claim, no, the world has a beginning. Now the argument is over. In the last 20 years, everyone agrees in the scientific world the world had a beginning. The world was made by a creator. How do they know? They check that the universe is expanding. Expanding, expanding constantly. Therefore, if you press rewind on your video and you go with the universe all the way to the beginning point, it gets to a point that was a simple dot. You understand? Or it was a beginning of a creation, which obviously there was a beginning, because there's no way to shrink to a point that you can continue and continue. At one point, that's it. You got to the minimum of the minimum. Therefore, they came to the conclusion that the world was created and it started by someone. We're not going now into the—

It started somehow.

Somehow.

Yes.

But my personal belief is, my personal belief is, something happened. And you can call that God. No problem. I don't think my major— Because really, even if scientists proved, at least according to, based on my learnings and based on more, a lot more scientists making such claims as otherwise, that Earth, universe, everything was far older than the biblical claims, but I do believe If they did not prove there was a God, they did not prove there was no God. Right. So, we didn't even get to that issue.

We're just talking about created or not created.

That's it.

But we don't know.

We don't know. At least I don't know. But I could accept that somehow something— we cannot, you know, when you say something If someone, it's often referred to a person. If something, that's why I refer to it as a thing because I think it's more than a person. It's whatever happens.

You lead me now to ask you one question because I think we can save a lot of time if I understand where is your beginning point. Because otherwise we waste a lot of time, we don't get to the real main issues. Let me ask you 3 or 4 quick questions, just answer me yes or no like this I know I don't know what to say next. Do you, as an individual, believe that the world was created by superpower?

I don't know. That— you want my belief or my studies?

No, no. Which one? Whatever you believe after all these—

I don't have any beliefs because no one has come to conclusion. As I mentioned to you, and I agree, the theory Theory of universe is still a theory. They have traced it back to billions of years. They have mathematical— that's actually Professor Hawking's— by trade is a mathematician. They have calculated based on lights, whatever else they have, the methods that they have, that You know, but based on science, they just proved that there is a God.

You know that. They just came out a few months ago with a big machine that they worked on that for many, many years. Actually, scientists for the first time in history proving that there was an intelligent superpower, you call it God, you call it something else, that created the world. But let me just ask you a few short questions. Okay, so you're not sure if it was created by a superpower or not?

Qualify, then what I believe doesn't matter.

Okay, now do you think— can you point at one thing that was ever made in this world that we live in? In the world that we live in, there's trillions of things that were made from day one until now. Did you ever see something symmetric with a design that was made by itself? Now I understand you are a very talented clothing designer. If I come to your factory and say to you, this shirt was made by itself. No one ever cut it. No one ever designed it. Accidentally, the sleeves connected, the buttons know how to come, the holes came exactly next to it. And here you have a beautiful $10,000 suit and it was made by itself. Would you call 911 and tell them, come take this psycho quickly to evaluation? Yes or no?

Well, I wouldn't call anybody to come and take—

But that's what you'll be—

or your opinion about me.

Me.

No, I wouldn't believe you.

You would know it's nonsense what I say.

Yeah, but you could always say it was a miracle.

Oh, okay. Now, miracle. How many times the same miracle would repeat? If now in your factory you have 10,000 suits like that, is it statistically possible that the 10 suits will every time that goes like this, a suit is created by itself and again and again without debris? Without debris, which means if there were 10,000 suits that came crooked, all kinds of garbage, holes, oh, one came perfect. No, I understand where you come from. Then another 10, 20,000 horrible suits, one of them came perfect. At least we had something to argue about. But since I don't believe that any suit came out of your factory not perfect—

I don't believe in miracles, so it's all settled.

All right, so you know that a person that would claim that a watch or a computer or a camcorder or a suit was made by itself is not 100% normal. You agree? Okay. Now, what's more sophisticated? A watch, a suit, a camera, or a brain of the human being?

Brain of a human being.

Okay, brain of a human being, for people who did not know, have 10 trillion connections, which means All the networks in the world, cellular phones, anything you can think of, is now 1% of your brain or my brain, which is not even 1%, which means the brain is a whole world of communication, and 80% of that is water, and the wires inside the brain are 1/10, 1/1000th of a hair. You take a hair out of your head, That's already 1,000 wires of the brain, and they are in such a sophisticated way. And if you cut one of them or two of them, the person will never be able to move. To claim that such a thing as a brain multiplied by 7.5 billion brains and then all the monkeys and all the animals, we're talking about trillions of brains who came into a place in a perfect way and was designed randomly. And develop randomly by a random evolution, evolution, I'm sorry, that's something that the chance for it to happen statistically and scientifically is zero, it's a complete zero, there's no chance, not even according, you tell me if you disagree with what I say.

I totally disagree with you.

You disagree?

You think a brain was able to be made by itself?

That's not what I said.

That's what I asked.

It's according to science. All of it comes through evolution.

Evolution is another issue. Let's not drift. Evolution is how things develop in our world. We are not getting to the development of the world. We are getting to the beginning of the world. Is it possible that the first human being that was made, was made, or a cell, you know what, let's not even go into the brain. One tiny cell. It's already more sophisticated than any computer you ever saw.

Not necessarily, but—

Yeah, okay. Now, do you think that a cell that is so brilliant plan in it, it was able to be created by a random explosion or any kind of a beginning that out of nowhere a cell was created? Do you think it's possible?

Okay, now you're asking me scientific question. I'm not qualified as a scientist to prove something. To you otherwise.

As a common sense.

No, no, as a common sense, you read from people who do research, who spend their entire life doing these things, who are qualified, who qualify themselves to do so. They go and teach in universities and build universities and get us from the cave to where we are now, where we can live the way we do. And when they claim If there was such a thing through evolution, if everyone had to go and do the same research, wouldn't be possible.

So I accept.

Either you didn't understand my question or accidentally you went again to evolution. Evolution, it's step 2.

We are now, we're talking about the first second of the creation, the first brain that was created. Do you think—

The first brain, the first cell.

The first cell. Do you think the first cell The cell was able to be created by itself or someone planted?

That's what I'm referring to. I am saying based on scientific information that's available, it happened based on geological movements that have taken place.

Where is all the debris of those movements? Do you know the chance that something like this— we're talking about billions of steps until a brain will be created. Trillions of steps, which means 1, 2, 3, 4, for many, many thousands and millions of years, 1, 2, 3, 4. But in between, there are connections.

Where are—

no science ever connected the step from the beginning of evolution to the end. They claim that was the beginning, that was the end. One day you were a monkey, you bent down, you had the tail, and the next day you were a professor and you're Albert Einstein. Einstein, but they did not ever prove the linking points between one step to another.

It's based on assumptions. You yourself said before that evolution is a theory.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Actually, there was a big finding. They found some bones a few years ago that gave them an indication between the link, and they named it something. I don't recall. Collected. But having said that one, it did not happen from one day to the next day. Evolution of what you are referring to, it's a work of billions of years, at least according to the ones who are making the claim.

It could be trillions of years.

But the beginning, the beginning, the little tiny microscopic cell that has a whole world inside of it, it's a very, very brilliant thing, the first cell. Now you choosing to take the opinion that makes no sense whatsoever just because this person call himself professor that everything was made out of nowhere, but you ignoring to take the opinion of thousands of other professors, even not religious one, that claim that no creation was ever made by itself. Every creation has a creator. And the more sophisticated is the creation, it indicates about the brilliance of the creator. And the step 3 is that we never found anything that was created for no purpose. And the first step is, did you ever see anyone made something without a purpose? For instance, if a person design clothes, he has a purpose that people will wear it and look good and warm and everything. If someone made a camera, you know what he wants. Someone make a light bulb, you know what he wants.

What came first?

What came first? What came first? The plan?

Or the actual creation?

First comes the plan. You want something, you develop a plan, you design it, and then you create it.

Can you show me one thing from trillions of things that were made according to you in millions of years of world Can you point at one item that was made ever in history that was made by itself? This square can be by itself?

I'll give you 1 billion attempts to make it by itself. I'll give you 1,000 coins and I'm gonna give you everything I own, everything I have, and I'm gonna make you the king of the world in my website if you'll be able to take 100 coins and throw them on the floor and they will fall in the same way twice in a row.

Whatever you want here, it's recorded. I'll give you whatever you want. If it's possible to happen randomly.

Thank you. Thank you. With all due respect, you are first. No, no, no.

I got one of you now. Okay.

You are misrepresenting and you're just misguiding everything. First of all, we were talking about nature. We were not talking about prayer.

Products.

Evolution is—

Product of nature.

Excuse me, no it's not. Products is what people make.

People are a product of nature who develop the nature more.

Absolutely.

No, no, no, no. They help nature develop other things. When they refer, at least scientists refer—

Plastic is nature or no? Plastic.

No.

Where plastic come from?

Man-made.

Man-made, but man-made the The material that makes plastic, it comes from nature or no? There's not one thing in the world that is not nature. This is nature, the wood is nature, your shoes is nature, everything is nature.

Nature could probably under certain circumstances develop plastic. I'm not aware of it, but all I'm trying to say is that you're misrepresenting certain things.

What plastic is made from? From oil.

Plastic made from oil.

Oil. That's what makes the Arabs very rich.

The whole— every plastic that you buy is made from oil. Oil comes from nature.

Without oil, you don't have plastic.

Rabbi, that has nothing to do with anything.

It's not from the tree, it's from the oil.

Alright, I tell you, I have a suggestion. I have a suggestion.

But I just wanted to make one point.

Yes.

You're referring to one scientist and you are really getting the the most renowned, the most respected scientist currently alive, we don't know how long for, and you are saying he claims himself a professor. He is not claimed by himself professor. He is a renowned, accepted, logical, well-informed, well-read, well-studied individual. And then on the other side you say thousands of others. I think the ratio is the reverse.

Who was bigger, Albert Einstein or Stephen Hawking?

They are both great.

But who is much bigger?

Einstein has been—

Do you want me to read to you a few quotes from Albert Einstein?

No.

Do you want me to?

You told me this thing last time and I suggested the same thing.

Okay, I brought— I came ready for your Albert Einstein because he told me that you are going to ask me that.

Einstein, Einstein, if you could go on an airplane I recommend everybody, as you said, we don't have the time. I recommend everybody Google Einstein on religion. His opinion, it's not a one-sentence thing because if you take one sentence out of a book, it could mean totally different than when you read the book. So I think I encourage everyone just to Google, not that it would matter a lot. Here, I'm convinced, I'm not trying, I'm not trying to change your mind.

Sentence from Albert Einstein and tell me if it's open for interpretation. You say it like this, Albert Einstein about religion, and by the way I took it from a secular website, nothing to do with religion. It says like this, it says, God is not playing with dice. That's when he spoke about the Mechanica de Quantum. Mechanica de Quantum, he said God is not playing with dice. I claim, that the religion, the cosmic religion, is the strong mother and the superior to scientific research. The religion, is using the word religion. Then it says, I believe in the God of Spinoza that is revealing himself. Spinoza was a Jew. That revealing himself in the harmonic of the entire universe.

I don't believe that God cares about the individual acts of human beings.

So he believes in a God creator. Then in another place he wrote, the more I research with my scientific work, I was more amazed how brilliant is the creator and how our knowledge about his work is so limited. I don't think it's open for interpretation. As the greatest scientist in modern history, story, he believed in God, and I have a list of 20 other scientists that are just as big, that they all knew there is a creator.

But I have a great solution for you, which I'm sure you would like.

I'm sure. Look, if I come and claim to you, I say to you, from brother to brother, I say to you, look, it all comes down to one issue. We can argue about science for 5 million years. You know And it's never going to end because you're going to bring a new one and I'm going to bring a new one and that's never going to end. We have a much easier way to prove. All I have to do, I come and I throw a bomb at you. You hold the bomb, you throw it back at me. Eventually someone would left with the bomb. I come and say to you, I can prove to you in maximum 1 hour, maximum, and since you're clever person it will be 20 minutes, that the Torah can never be proven, can never be written by human beings, only by the Creator of the world. I'm going to show you certain things that are written in the written Torah and in the oral Torah, which many more skeptics have claims against the oral Torah more than the written Torah. And I'm going to ask you to explain to me if it's possible that a human being 3,300 years ago, as the Torah was given to the Jews, if 3,300— even today, but needless to say back then when they didn't have the technology of today, no computer, no satellite, no telescope. But even today, is it possible that a person was able to write it in a book 3,300 years? I'm sure you're honest enough and you make good impression, so I'm sure you're going to give me a yes or no answer. I'm going to write to you certain things that is written in the Torah, and I would ask you only to tell me, is it possible that a human being was able to write such a thing?

Or only— call him whatever you want, don't call him God, it doesn't matter— only the creator of the world was able to write it.

At the same time, if you have any specific evidence based on what's written in the Torah that this is a human error, that would prove that the Torah is not divine, or at least parts of it.

So now we come down to one argument.

You have to prove to me that Torah is not divine. I have to prove to you that Torah is divine. If you agree with me, or the vast majority of the people who will watch our debate, they would agree that I convinced you that the Torah is divine, I reached my goal. If you will be able to convince the audience that you put enough doubt in the Torah that it cannot be proven as divine, you won the debate.

That's it. We can talk about science forever, but it's not so relevant to the religion. Let's talk about religion now.

So let's—

I agree with you. First of all, let me tell you my position on God and all of those.

Written Torah, oral Torah, and God.

Let me first— no, no, no, no. Let me tell you. First, we agree that we disagreed on scientific findings. So at least our audience are clear, you and I totally disagree on the finding of science. And I think this is easily the—

You did not supply one solid proof.

If we be in a court of law—

No, no, but you claim that the scientists proven that the world is millions of years old. You made a claim. I didn't claim that. It's the burden of proof is on you to prove, to bring one scientific proof that the world is millions or billions of years old.

You did not bring me any proof. You made—

Yes, go ahead.

No, no, no.

All I'm saying is let's agree to disagree that our scientific findings are based on total different basis. I think the claims The point that I'm making is, at least the number of scientists who claim otherwise are 50 to 1. So we leave that at that. But however, what I personally believe, I believe there was a beginning and something was created. How? I'm not smart enough to know. But I think it's what we ended up calling nature. Okay? And we, the rest of the of the universe are a byproduct of nature. We can call it God, we can call it nature, but I don't think personally that that God that was the beginning creator of the first thing, so to speak, the first— if the law or the theory is correct of the Big Bang, did that one to create us so we can enjoy the rest of the universe. If you really look at the size, how vast the universe is, you are going to see that they are irrelevant. But you can talk about, I think—

No, I think—

Do you think that the Torah was written by people or was written by God? What do you think?

It's a very good question.

Yeah, I think it was written by, by people.

You think people wrote it from the beginning to the end?

I, I assume so, and I've spoken with a few other rabbis.

If I'll prove to you that inside the Torah there is hundreds of pieces that could never be written by human beings, only the one who created the world had that knowledge, would it change your mind?

I'll tell you with one caveat, with one caveat. The main issue with Torah is Torah is not written in a language where a layman would read it. The problem, the problem is Torah needs to be interpreted by different people, and different people interpret it differently. Different rabbis, depending on where they are, past, present, they all interpret it different. Now if you tell me this is what is written but now it means that, that's a different story. But that's not what I'm talking about.

Okay, then go ahead. No, no, no, I am all ears.

Okay.

I'll give you the first proof. According to Judaism, before there was a Jewish calendar, Two witnesses has to come. They testify by the renewal of the moon. Once the moon renewed every month— Judaism goes based on the moon and based on the sun. The Christians go based on the sun and the Muslims go based on the moon. And there's 11 days and change difference between the year of the moon, the year of the sun, which means every 3 years the holidays would move on the calendar by approximately a month. Now, the Torah says that the Jews, since they depend on this calculation, they have one limitation. What's the limitation? Passover must always be in the month of the spring. Pesach, Hag Ha'Aviv. Passover, holiday of the spring. And since in a divine book you cannot have any human error, you cannot have. If Pesach would be in December when everyone is freezing, then you see the first mistake in the Torah.

And that will be very easy from now on to have question in almost everything in the Torah.

Because once you have a mistake, like the New Testament and the Quran is full of mistakes. If you watch some of my videos, you're going to see. Once you find a mistake in the written or in the oral Torah, then you know that everything else is questionable and makes your life a lot easier to prove your point.

You don't need to go through science and all kinds of speculation. You would come and say, you see this?

This is a mistake in the Torah. Therefore, it cannot be from God. Just like in the New Testament, it said that the cave of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is in the city of Shechem, Nablus. And every fool knows it's in Hebron. And God doesn't make such mistakes. That's a serious mistake, right? Christians come and say God gave the Jews the Torah. And we believe the Torah, we call it the Old Testament. The same God gave us another book. And once we go to the second book, we find over there there are contradictions to the first book, which means God never gave them the book. End of story. It takes 5 minutes to prove it.

Same thing you can do in the Torah.

So now let me explain to you what the proof is. The Torah says that one time— it's in the Talmud, it's mentioned in the Talmud— The Torah says in Masechet Rosh Hashanah that witnesses came to the Beit Din and Rabban Gamliel, the President of Israel, was that day, it was his turn to sit in the Beit Din waiting for the witnesses. You need minimum 2 to come and testify by the renewal of the moon. Few witnesses came and they told him, now it's the renewal of the moon.

Because I'm not as educated as you are, you need to explain these things. I don't understand. I don't understand what you mean, so I'm lost.

So ask me what you don't understand and I'll tell you.

What do you mean to—

To testify. I tell you, you know, you look at the moon, right? In the beginning of the month, the moon is very small. On the 15th of the month, the moon is full. And then it reduces. Exactly. So from the beginning to the middle, it's growing. From the middle to the end, it's decreasing, the moon.

Yeah, it moves away.

A cycle of the moon is approximately 30 days.

3 days approximately. Okay, so now in Judaism— thank you very much—

in Judaism, in Judaism, the renewal of the moon is something very critical.

What's critical about it?

All the holidays.

For instance, if the Jews will eat on Yom Kippur or they will fast on Yom Kippur, it depends if you know to announce the renewal of the moon on the right day. Because if you miss by a few hours, if you do it after sunset, everyone will eat on Yom Kippur. And everyone would fast in the following day, which is a big tragedy according to the Torah, that all Jews in the world will not fast on Yom Kippur. So it has to be very accurate, which within seconds. Why? Because if sunset today, it's 5, 5 o'clock exactly, which means if one witness would come and say 4:59, now it's the renewal of the moon, and the second witness would say it's 5:02, That's a big difference.

If you go based on the first witness, everyone would fast on one day, and if you go on the second one, everyone would fast on the following day.

So this is one of the most important things in Judaism, to know where the holiday is going to be, where to celebrate Passover, where Rosh Hashanah, which is the Judgment Day, when Yom Kippur is, when Shavuot. All these things depend on the renewal of the moon. So now the Gemara says that Rabban Gamliel was sitting waiting for witnesses to come. The witnesses came and they say to him, now it was a cloudy day, now it's the renewal of the moon. Now he's sitting inside the building and they came from the mountains. People waiting and to see when the moon disappear and right beginning to grow, they run to the Beit Din. Because remember, there was no Jewish calendar. Today it's very easy. You go in the calendar, it's all pre-calculated. But back then it was done manually every month.

So the witnesses came and they say to Rabban Gamliel, now it's Rosh Chodesh, now it's the renewal of the moon, therefore the Jewish month started as of now.

And he said to them, all of you are wrong. It's in the Talmud. It cannot be. And this is what he said. The renewal— this is how we received— this is how he opened his statement. This is how we received from generation to generation all the way to Moses. The renewal of the moon can never be less than 29 days and a half and 2/3 of the hour and 73 parts of the minute. If you do the math, which I can show you later, all my slides, I don't want to waste now time, it's going to take a long time. Everything you ask from me, sources, I'm here. I'll give you my my email, anything you have question, you get all the sources. By the way, everything that I'm telling you now is in my film Torah and Science, which I brought you a copy, so later you can go over it and make your notes and you can get back to me. So now it says like this: calculation of the renewal of the moon.

The renewal of the moon, which is millions of calculation every month, it's different than the other month.

The world is moving, all the galaxies are moving.

So every month is different than the month before.

The Gemara says, the Talmud, which is 100% oral Torah, it's in the oral Torah, the renewal of the moon will never be less than 29.530590.

I repeat, the cycle, the minimal cycle of all the moons from now for eternity, as long as this world exists, will never be less than 29.530590, which is 6 digits after the decimal point, and it was written 2,000 years ago in the Talmud when there was no calculator.

Now, if I show you right now, if you want, I turn my screen to you, a research of NASA, the institution of science in the United States, And the Germans, which are even higher than NASA, the scientists of Germany. Both of them did their research and spent billions of dollars and thousands of employees and measurements and all the—

everything.

After many years of research, they came with the—

they published the minimal cycle Earth-Moon system. 29— the Americans, 29.530588. The Germans, 29.530589. Which means the difference between Americans to the Torah, it's 2 ten-thousandths of a second.

Take 1 second here. 1, 2. Take that period, divide it to 10,000 pieces, take 2 of them out. That's the difference between what the Americans discovered by investing millions, billions of dollars, and what the primitive oral Torah from 2,000 years ago when there was no telescope telescope, no satellite, no nothing. The Torah wrote the renewal of the moon will never be less than this number.

Meaning if it will be 29 days and 12 hours and 40 minutes, and it will be 2, 3 minutes below that number based on scientific objective science. You see, this is science.

I use science all the time to prove the Torah. The difference between you and me is you choose from science all kinds of speculation to back your opinion up. I don't work like that. I work with what's real and can be proven and what's speculation. When I have speculation who back me up, I don't use it. Even though it's backing me up and I can fool the audience, it's not my style. I work only with what was proven. This is something that was proven. Scientific, it's objective science. It's calculation. They both did different research and they came one ten-thousandth of a second different between the Americans and the Germans. And the Gemara, 2,000 years before them, wrote the renewal of the moon. Now you have to agree with me that even today, not 2,000 years back there, even today, you and me with Google, with science, with professor, with Hawkins, with everything you want, nobody Nobody today on his own can commit in a divine book that the renewal of the moon will never be less than this number, and if it is by one minute, Judaism is over. Now, do you think a person was able to write such a thing? What do you think?

That's one out of thousands of proofs like this that I have.

Well, I really don't know what is right, what is wrong. I mean, these are claims that you make.

I don't nobody today on his own can commit in a divine book that the renewal of the moon will never be less than this number.

And if it is, by one minute, Judaism is over. Now, do you think a person was able to write such a thing?

What do you think? That's one out of thousands of proofs like this that I have Well, I really don't know what is right, what is wrong.

I mean these are claims that you make. I don't We're going to be all talking. Let them really talk and not let anybody interfere. Let's set up the power. Thanks.

No, no, no, no.

If we can be lower, let's take care of their lack of—

lack of one thing does not prove the existence of anything else. At least this is scientifically. You are telling me that the Gemara says, Torah doesn't say, the Gemara says—

Gemara is Torah and Torah.

Well, it was a claim that was made. I can concede to that one because I never read Gemara.

You say you never read Gemara. I have a better question for you. Did you ever read the written Torah once in your life from the beginning to the end and you understand the meaning, the meaning of the words? Forget about the secret, forget about Rashi. Forget about commentators.

Did you read the written Torah from the beginning to the end, every verse, and you understand the simple meaning of every verse in the Torah?

Not every verse, and not every— but have I read it? I went to Jewish school for enough years. I read it, but especially when the meaning— look, it's written in Hebrew, the real Torah, and the translation—

in English.

No, no, no, no, the translation, the translation.

The word-to-word translation really does not have much meaning. It's only when a rabbi sits down and explains it to you differently or interprets it differently that it comes up.

No, no, no. I did not talk about explanation and commentaries. I spoke about the simple Hebrew that every educated Israeli secular did not go to Jewish school You come and you tell them read the Torah and he understand what's the meaning of the words. Of course there's a lot of secrets. I'm not even getting into the secret. I'm just asking you, I tell you why I'm asking you this, because I'm speaking for 20 years and you have to assume that you're not the first person who come to debate me in person or in front of audience. It happens many times in the past, but I tell you with my hand on my heart that 20 years, millions of people already listened to my lectures, and I spoke in 5,000 different events and seminars all over the world, and I have so many CDs and website, one of the most successful in the world. But I promise you now, and this is unbelievable what I'm telling you, but I promise you that it's not a lie, that not one time I had one secular Jew that come and criticize the the Torah and doubt the Torah that ever read the Torah once to understand the simple meanings of the words, not include the secrets, not include the Oral Torah, just the simple meanings of the Torah. And I promise you one more thing, and I hope you believe me, that if you go home and you put a week from your time, from your businesses, and you read the Torah from the beginning to the end You will never need to debate anyone. You would not need me to prove to you that Torah is divine because by you reading all the strange things that are written in the Torah, you would know already as a clever person, no human being would write such things because he has no incentive to write about sacrifices, putting the blood over here, putting the blood on the toes, cleaning the house for some crimes because if a a faker would write the Torah, he would want fame, he would want money, he would want control, he would want to be famous in history, he would want to get something for himself.

But if you read the Torah, you see that the writer of the Torah, if you claim he was a human being or a rabbi, whatever you call it, did all the mistakes that it's possible to make his life difficult. First, he wrote on himself that he's stuttering.

Second, he wrote on himself that God punished him and he never entered the land.

Third, he wrote that his children were not worthy enough to inherit him. Fourth, he wrote that God got angry at him. Fifth, he wrote that people rebelled against him again and again and again and gave him hard time. Then he wrote certain things in the Torah that basically making his name be memorized in history with defects. Problems. Nobody ever would write about himself in a book that he comes to control the people, that he has this problem and this, and he got punished.

No one would write such a thing. Plus, if I want to fool millions of people and want to give them a book, what's behind my plan? Money, fame, power. I want everyone to think that I'm the smartest person in the world.

Now Why would I come and write in my book, half of my book, the most strange things in the Wahhabi history? What does it help me if my listeners will—

Are these questions or—

It's a statement.

It's a statement.

Yeah, but don't worry, you'll have the time to comment as long as you need. I'm asking what a person would gain anything by telling people to clean their house from breadcrumbs? Nothing. A person gain anything to tell people to spend spent millions of dollars on sacrifices in the Holy Temple, he gets nothing. People get angry. Nobody wants to bear money. A person would get anything by telling people not to go to work one day? What does he get by that? Let them work as much as they want, as long as they give me the money, the fame, the power.

Let them do whatever they want. You can do whatever you want. You can marry, you don't have to marry, you can whatever you want. You don't have to pray, you don't have to close your business one day a week. What is in it for me? The more I make it difficult, the more you hate me. So if I'm a faker, if a human being would write the Torah, you will not find one incentive, one reason for him to write such a book. What did he get by that?

You are referring to Moses, I'm assuming?

Yes. Or anyone.

I didn't claim that someone else other than God or Moses Moses, I don't know who wrote it. What I would assume, at least based on more reformed rabbis, Torah has been written over time and it has been corrected until a certain time and then they did not. But however, it's not like to say, okay, because certain thing is said, so it's divine. You tell me from the beginning, when let's say Moses brought all of those people out, According to some claims, what, 2 million people came out?

More than 3.5 million.

More than 3.5 million people came to the desert. Okay? Now, 3.5 million people, and I assume there were men, women, 40 years, they eat. Human's nature. You eat. You let out. You have deposits. Right. Where do they go?

What's the problem? Where do you think your great-grandparents went when they had to go to the bathroom in Iran 70 years ago? To the forest. And then later they started to make bathrooms in the backyard. My grandmother, her bathroom was not inside the house. There was no flushing. She had to go to a place.

We did not have flushing when I was born either.

Exactly. So what's the question?

Same way, people.

They didn't go to desert, eat, and let out and get up.

Simply, they made bathrooms.

The bathroom, and Agmara speaks about the bathrooms in their days. The Shulchan Aruch, 500 years ago, described the bathroom. They make a big hole in the ground with holes, just like the Israeli army until today has, and people go over there. They make themselves, they build the place for the, for modesty, and the waste go very deep in the ground, and every once in a while they cover it with sand and they create a new bathroom as they moving. That's really not it. That's not really a question. Huh? The food? Oh, wait a minute. Oh, now you're leading me to the next proof. Tell me now one question.

Can I prove to all these people?

Can I prove to all these people now things that happened to them that never happened to them? Can I come and give them now a speech? Ladies and gentlemen, thank you all of you to listen to me. I am the representative of God who wrote this book based on his instruction, and I'm giving you a copy today. And I'm telling each one of you, I took you out of Japan, I brought you here to New York City, I built your homes, I gave each one of you thousands of dollars weekly, I help, I cure each one of you, I'm supplying you bread falling into your bank account every day. They will tell me, excuse me, sir, what's wrong with you? Who are you? We never been in Japan. You're not giving us any money. You did not bring us to here. I came from Russia. He came from Iran. He came from Texas. What are you talking about?

We don't even know who you are. You coming to sell me a story what happened to me in the last year and none of the things that you say Did it happen to me?

I want to ask you a question.

Listen, the writer of the Torah, call him whoever you want, call him Moshe, call him Yitzchak, I don't care.

Call him John, whatever you want to call him.

The writer of the Torah, you bring it, it comes to a group of people and it say, I am the God that took you out of Egypt.

You were slaves over there. I split the ocean. I made you go through and all the enemies drowned. If it did not happen, Who would accept the book from him? Tell me, are you crazy? God never gave you this book because we never been in Egypt.

Then he goes to the next thing.

He say, every day you seeing bread falling from heaven, you see clear miracle in front of your eyes. If bread would not fall, right away they tell him, excuse me, Moshe, maybe you don't feel good. I'm here every day and I don't see any bread falling. But the best part of the 100 miracles that is described in the Torah And remember, Judaism is the only religion that was given directly to the receivers of the book.

You don't have it in 80,000 religions, fake ones that came later.

Why? Because everybody that wrote those fake religions knew he cannot fake the receivers by telling them that this and this happened to you.

The only one that was brave to come to a group of millions of people and say, did I take you out of Egypt?

Yes, sir.

Did I make the Egyptians drown? Yes, sir. Did I make the 10 plagues in Egypt and all of you saw it?

Yes.

Here is what I'm referring to. Here, you should have already got the point, but I'm gonna get to the punchline.

Then Moshe comes and he gives them a book, 304,805 letters, a big scroll. They open it up and they read that 7 weeks ago they came out of Egypt.

If it didn't happen, they would not agree to accept the book. It's not divine.

It's a lie. And then in the book it says, all of you, all of you heard me speaking to God and you heard his voice. If one of them would raise his hand, one of the 3.5 million, and say, Mr.

Moshe, I'm very sorry, I'm also standing here for hours, I did not hear the voice of God, that would be the end of Judaism. Before it even started.

Because 3.5 million people over there, I have to be superhero brave and a total fool to make myself the dumbest person in history to come to 3.5 million people and say, didn't you hear all of you that I just spoke to God and you heard his voice? What would they say?

I'm not getting you.

I'm not understanding what you're even saying.

Did I make my point clear?

I'm not sure.

We know all of this.

No, no, no, no, but it's not—

we are explaining.

I am asking very specifically. In Sinai Desert, yes, after 3,000 years.

What language you talk that, I'm God?

No, no, no, no. The only language, the language of the Torah.

Okay, there is— they have not found any remains of anyone, let alone 3.5 million people.

Not true.

Not true.

I have in my house a rock that was found in one of the mountains, and they spread it 10, 15 years ago all over. They actually sold it for $10. That this is a rock that were found that has pictures of Bush, and when you break them, you still see drawing of a bush inside. Plus, in the Red Sea, they found all the carriages, not all, many of the carriages of Pharaoh.

And even in Egypt, they found coins with Hebrew Aleph-Bet.

Wait, wait.

These are totally irrelevant to my question. I mean—

You say they didn't find in the desert anything.

I am telling you they have not found human remains. You are telling me they have not.

Well, wait a minute. The desert had millions of other people, Arabs and all kinds, and Moab and Amalek. Where did they find their remains?

Show me.

By not finding bodies, that's not a proof that the body did not, the person did not live. I do not know where Moshe Rabbeinu was buried.

Did that mean he did not exist? Because I don't know where he's buried?

There's millions of other people I don't know where they're buried. I don't understand what's the question here.

I'll tell you what's the question.

I mean, you are smart enough to understand. You are smart enough to understand. I'm not trying to manipulate this thing. Look, when 3.5 million people— well, today, forget about 3,000 years ago— move from one place to another place, everything moves. Those days, population of Earth was not 7 billion. 3.5 million would have constituted a whole country.

Even 1,000.

Now, 3.5 million people go through a desert, you got to be able to find the remains, the remains Of some? Because there is no remains of Arabs, it doesn't mean it's okay for Jews not to have remains.

Arabs do not claim they have.

They found the actual altar of Joshua in the mountain of Ebal.

I am talking about remains of 3.5 million people.

Bones.

They dig all over the desert to look for bones? What are you saying?

The desert is endless. What are they going to do? They're going to start going with radars to look for bones?

They do archaeology.

It's not a claim. It's a question.

Archaeology for all of us.

In the ocean, can I find my grandfather threw a million dollar coin in the middle of the ocean? And it's my job to look for it. If I won't find it, that means my grandfather didn't exist?

No, no, no, no, no. That's what you're referring to.

Did I understand him correctly? What do you think?

No, no, no, ask me. He is saying it's difficult to believe that 3.5 million people died in the desert and until today nobody found a single bone from those 3.5 million people who supposed for over 40 years—

But there are hundreds of other millions of people that nothing was found. So that means they didn't exist?

No.

Where is all the Arabs that were buried in the desert?

They say you don't have proof and he doesn't have proof. You don't know if they were there and he says he doesn't know.

I'm very sorry, that's not how you're arguing scientifically.

Of course you do.

No, you don't.

You're telling me because it wasn't found it never existed.

No, no, no, Rabbi, you're telling me because there are no Arabs found, so there's no reason for Jews to exist.

No one was found. Who was found? Maybe because there wasn't anyone, I don't know. No. Okay, no. Maybe there was a day one.

Just please answer one question and I want to move to my next proof.

My question to conclude this part, this last 20 minutes of our arguments, is like this: Do you believe that a person that would like to fool— and remember this, the Torah could never be planted in history for one simple reason, because the Torah is writing that the Torah was given to the actors of the Torah, which means when the faker, according to maybe what you believe, that faker who wrote the Torah and made it up had only one way to convince the people. He is giving them the book and they are written in the book.

They, each one of the receiver, is written in the Torah. Now he comes and gives them the Torah. He describes 100 miracles that happened to them, include He claimed to them that the way to know that God gave him the book is that all of you heard me speaking to God, and here I'm bringing you the book of God.

Now, what faker would be able to manipulate 3.5 million people, or even 1,000 people, or even 50 people, and convince all of them that something that never happened in history to them—

to them, not in history, to each one of them— Actually never happened to them, but I'm claiming that it happened to them, and they will all say to me, okay, sir, we will comply with your lie. We will pretend that we heard God. We will pretend that we have man. We will pretend that we were in Egypt. We will pretend that we have 10 plagues in Egypt. Do you think it's possible? Tell me, what do you think?

I'll tell you that, by the way, that the problem— no, the problem is we are You are questioning whether there were 3.5 million people. Now you are telling me to accept that they were believers? I am questioning—

50 people. Forget about 50 people. A family of 50 people. No, no, no, no, no. Can you convince them that something like this happened to them if it never happened?

I am not— I am questioning of their existence. I want to be— I want to understand that there was such a thing. It is not that I don't want to believe it. I want to believe it. But it's hard for my logic to say, look, 3.5 million people came to a desert for 40 years. They probably, they grew to be more. A lot of them died, I assume.

Yes, yes.

According to Torah, all 3.5 million, and then the new generation.

Only a few went in.

Okay. And probably during those days, because life expectancy in those years were far less than now, so probably it's going to, you know, but it's hard for my logic to say, look, three and a half million people came to a desert for 40 years.

They probably. They grew to be more.

A lot of them died, I assume. Yes, yes. According to Torah, all three and a half million of them, the new generation, only few went in.

Yeah.

Okay. And probably during those days, because life expectancy in those years were far less than now. So probably it's going to, you know, in the desert of somewhere between 3.5 to 5 million people.

It's okay and it's logically acceptable.

Based on your assumption, the bodies of Titanic that were never recovered, therefore there was no Titanic, based on your assumption.

Absolutely not, they were in the ocean. And history—

Ocean and desert is two very large places.

No, no, no, no, no, you're missing it.

First of all, there was a history at the time of Titanic.

It was recorded.

There is no other history. Do you know that?

There was no other historical writing about Torah or what happened to Egypt other than Torah. There is no history written elsewhere. If you again Google all of those, the only reference that is, is Torah. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I am questioning for a logical individual how to accept that 3.5 million people for 40 years increased to whatever else and there is no finding of business. And you're trying to convince me that I shouldn't know this, I shouldn't ask this.

I repeat what I told you. Not finding bones doesn't mean doesn't mean those bones did not exist. You know that scientifically, that's not the claim. That's not a claim.

Well, people would hear this recording and they'll know that that's not how you contradict science.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

If you refer to 1, 10, 20, limited number of people—

but people died in different places. They're not all died in one place.

That's exactly why.

So why you suggest so?

So So wait a minute, what do you suggest? That people start go to the desert and gamble? They're gonna make a big hole over here and a big hole over there and they work for million years until they find bones. That's what you suggest?

No, archaeology—

Do you think that's how archaeology works?

Look, they found, they found so much everywhere else in the world. Whether it is Greece—

Thank you very much for saying it. Tell me, all the archaeologists, all the archaeologists archaeologists that they found anything in Israel? The City of David, the Western Wall was also covered at one point. Everything they ever found, the altar of Joshua ben Nun as it is described in the Book of Joshua, coins that were found yesterday, they just found a big treasure in Jerusalem under the mosque yesterday. All these, how the archaeologists knew to go with toothbrushes and to dig over there for years, how did they know where to start their digging? Based on the Tanakh. Without the Tanakh, almost no archaeology would ever be found. And that leads me to my next proof to you. Now, you know Jews are allowed to eat kosher fish. What's not kosher, it's not allowed to be eaten. The Torah says, since there are millions of different kinds of things that live in the ocean, the Torah says to the Jews, in all In order for you to know if it's kosher or not, you need two witnesses, two signs: fins and scales. If it has fins and scales, it's kosher. If it doesn't have one of the two or both, it's not kosher. Now we go to the Oral Torah. The Oral Torah that speaks about this verse. And you have to know one thing in case I did not say it until now. The Oral Torah, you cannot understand one of the 600 113 laws in the written Torah without the oral Torah. You would not understand how to write the Torah, where to put the comma, how to make the Sefer Torah, from what animal, with what ink. You would not know what tefillin is. Tefillin, even conservatives, some of them put tefillin. So they would never know how to make tefillin because all the instructions on how to make tefillin, there are more than 1,000 instructions know how to make it from the time it was a cow until it became those black boxes with all the written inside and every little detail, which if one of them is incorrect, the filling is not kosher. None of that is written in a written Torah. Circumcision of the baby, most Jews, even atheists, they circumcise their baby. How do they know where to cut? Because in written Torah it doesn't say where to cut.

It's only in the oral Torah.

That is what it says.

I think you are getting off track. It's not about making certain claims. There are specific questions, and I think it would be enlightening if people found the answers for them. At least people like myself, probably like him. He's more of a believer than I am, and I invited him to be a part of our questioning source. So you are telling me that there are There are remains, or there should be remains.

They found in a—

No, no, no, no, no. In the desert.

Between Egypt to the Red Sea, you can only get to the desert. You cannot be anywhere else.

No, no, no, no.

I am—

When you cross from Egypt and you found all these carriages just as the Torah describes.

So where did you find them?

No one claims that in old Egypt there was no carriage.

Inside the Red Sea on the way to Israel.

Or no, I'm not saying there is, I'm not saying there isn't.

You can go and Google and find. There are many, many videos of discoveries in the desert and in the Red Sea.

I am saying that its existence or lack of it does not prove or disprove anything.

That's all I'm saying.

All I'm questioning, my question is addressed very specifically. Since the nation of Israel was in the desert for 40 years, though big desert, and traveled from one end to the other end, and they were in the millions, are you saying there should not be any remains or there are that we haven't found?

There are some that we found.

There have not been found anything.

So, your claim is very incorrect. Wait, again, there are some that were found there are some who were not found. Not finding something that is written in a book from 3,300 years ago, it's not a proof that that something did not exist scientifically. Therefore, you don't have any claim against what I say.

No, no, no, your statement is—

to prove that I don't have a sister, you cannot. You can prove that I have a sister, but you cannot prove that I don't have, because she can be anywhere in the world. By you not finding her doesn't mean she's not alive. Now let's—

let me conclude what I told you about the fish, because this is very critical for this debate for for you as a seeker of the truth, which I believe you are. It's very important for you to hear what I have to say about this fish. The oral Torah comes to the Jews and says, everything you will ever find in the water— 72% of the world is water, as you know, it's almost 3/4 of the world— everything you will ever find, everything that you will ever find, that's more than 40,000 different kinds of fish and many other things. Everything you will ever find in the ocean, if you found scales in a body of that creature, I guarantee you, you will have fins. You will never— you will find creatures that have fins but do not have scales, like shark, dolphins, and others.

But you will never find anything that have scales and did not have fins.

Which means the writer of the Torah took a huge risk.

He took a huge, huge, huge risk.

Remember, half of the things that lives today in the ocean did not even exist when the Torah was written. Why? Because they always merge and create new species, like you say, evolution.

The world is always developing and new creatures are being created between mixing of the species. Plus it's been done by scientists all over the world.

They do it on purpose for all kinds of purposes. Until today, for 3,300 years, nobody ever found in nowhere in the world in the water something that have scales that you scrape them and the scales are falling off just like the kosher fish.

Nobody ever found anything that have scales and does not have fins.

Now I want to ask you as common sense question. Question. If a person is a faker and he comes to write a book of religion and claim God gave it to him, what normal person will take such a huge risk writing in a book that if you find one fish like that in the ocean one day in the future, my whole book became a toilet paper?

You put it in the garbage.

I love it.

Why would I take such a risk? Why? I can, I can fake the people without putting myself in jeopardy.

He knows. It's very easy.

How do you know one thing?

Like Bill Gates. How does Bill Gates know?

Do you know one thing?

Do you believe Bill Gates?

Bill Gates? What's Bill Gates?

Bill Gates, who changed the whole world.

What does it have to do with Bill Gates now?

Okay, now. Only these two. No, no, no, I request.

No, no, no, wait, wait. One question I have for you is, now, the world, do you know one thing?

One human being that has the ability to look at 72% of the world.

It's very deep. And to watch it simultaneously and to say this fish does not exist ever in the ocean. Do you know a person was able to write such a thing?

Lack of one thing, existence of one thing does not prove lack of another or existence of another. Please allow me to— look, I did not I don't think so.

Just answer this question. Do you think a person was able to guarantee 3,300 years in a book that this species does not exist all over the world forever?

No, Rabbi Mizrahi, this is assuming I believe that your claim that the Torah was written 3,300 years ago is what I believe.

I don't.

So How old do you think the Torah is old?

I'm not a scholar.

The Torah is before the temple was destroyed by the Babylonians, according to the whole world, it was 2,600 years ago. So according to science and according to the nations, not the Jews, the nations, everyone agrees that the first temple was destroyed by the Babylonians 2,600 years ago, and the temple was built build based on instructions only of the Torah, no other books. And one more thing, King David, which is recognized by the whole world, even Muslims and Christians and all the other nations, lived according to all opinions 3,000 years ago. And his son King Solomon built the first temple 3,000 years ago.

So the Torah had to be more than 3,000 years ago without any doubt according to all over the world, all opinion, the Torah is at least 3,000 years old. Now I ask you, I'll go with your assumption that the Torah is only 3,000 years old because you cannot deny King David.

I, I am not, I am not claiming it is.

It is, I don't know.

I'm King David. King David existed or it's a myth?

Existed.

Is a part of the history.

How long King David lived ago?

I don't have.

Well, how long the Babylonian, the 3,000 years ago, exactly. The Babylonians were the masters of the world 2,600 years ago. After them came Ahasuerus, the Persian, the story a little bit after. And after that, the Greeks, and after that, the Romans. So the history is pretty clear. So according to all opinions, the Torah has to be more than 3,000 years old. Now, if I write today a fake book and I give it to 5,000 people, 50 people, forget 3 million, 50 here, right here in front of us. And I write, here is my book, if you ever find in this huge world from 72%, miles and miles of depth that people cannot reach because of the pressure. You know, every 10 meters the pressure doubles. It's very, very, after you go to 30 or 40 meters it can blow up your head. So nobody 3,000 years ago years ago was able to go 12 kilometers to the bottom of the ocean and to know which fish lives there and which fish does not live.

So the risk that he took is a very, very uncalculated risk, very foolish.

Everybody knows that a person doesn't have such an ability to promise what's in the ocean and what's not in the ocean, because until today we're discovering things in the ocean that we didn't know they exist. So he wrote, if you find one species that have scales and did not have fins, the Torah is over. Why? Because that's going to be a mistake in the Torah, in oral Torah, remember, not written, oral.

The oral Torah committed to that, which means all you have to do is to bring—

Where is the oral Torah written?

The oral Torah was given to Moshe Rabbeinu orally, verbally, the same day that he received the written Torah. Because inside the written Torah, there are a few verses that prove this. One, it says, these are the torahs, in plural, that I put in the hand of Moshe in Mount Sinai.

And then it's 3 times in the Torah it says, do as I showed you in the mountain. What did he show him?

There is no record in written Torah.

He said to him, make the menorah as I showed you in the mountain. Do this as I showed you in the mountain. Do that as I showed you in the mountain.

Which means he showed him information that are critical for the truth of the Torah verbally. Now you may ask me why God didn't write everything in one book and finish?

Why to give so much knowledge verbally? 99.9% of Judaism, it's oral Torah.

The written Torah only tell you the history and the name of the 600 commandments.

It does not give one instruction. No instruction how to keep the Sabbath, how to circumcise the baby, how to make tefillin, how to make the holidays, nothing. Everything was transferred from rabbi to student, from father to son.

Now, why God did not write everything in a book and finish? The answer: if everything would be written in one book, the size of the book would be all the way from here to the end of over there, because you know what the Talmud and all the information formation of the oral Torah, it's too much. And remember, in the old days we didn't have printing like today. So there were, you know, today when they let me pick up the Torah, I'm begging to God that it won't fall from my hand because it's very heavy. Now multiply it by 1,000, nobody in history would be able to even pick up the Torah. So it's not realistic. But the main reason is not what I told you. There is a much better reason for it. The reason is Gentiles that want to join the chosen people, the Jewish nation, they have to go through a conversion process. Their way to do a conversion process is to start learning Judaism, the 13 principles and all the laws and the holidays and everything. And after all of that, they have to come to the Jewish court and to get tested. And after the Jewish court approved them, they circumcise the male, they put them outside the Mikveh, he goes in Chris, he comes out Avraham.

That's how it goes.

Now, now you can smile, very good.

Okay, now, so now, so now the point is like this.

Now, if the Goyim, the Gentiles, would have everything written in one book, they don't need you, they don't need me, they don't need the Rabbi, they don't need anybody. Everyone would know how to make tefillin, everyone would circumcise his baby, everyone would learn Hebrew, everyone would know how to bake matzah. In those days everyone had a beard. So right away, you go to a place in the world, somebody come, what's your name? Yosef. But it's really Yusuf, it's not Yosef. So he say to you, who are you? I'm a Jew, came from this country. He has tefillin, he has mezuzot, he has everything that you have. There's no way to know who's a Jew and who's not. You know that if someone has a beard and a yarmulke, even if he's not Jewish, you think he's a Jew.

There's no way to know by the body. Therefore, it will be the end of Judaism before it even started. If every Gentile will have all the secrets of God in one scroll, Judaism will be finished before it even started, because all the world knows that the Jews receive Torah, and everyone would want to join it. They will have everything to do it on their own. They don't need the Bedouin to convert them. And nobody would know if he's Jewish. Today, you wouldn't even know, not if you're Kohen or not, you wouldn't even be able to know if you're Jewish or not because that would reflect 3,000 years back in history. Nobody would know what he is.

But we can turn things to be good or to be bad. You could always say if it was, everybody would have had an opportunity. To become Jewish, but by the same token, if God created all human beings, he created the Muslims, the Christians, the atheists.

All people.

All of them. Right. And if he wanted more Jews, he would have had more Jews. He would have made that one to make more Jews. I don't know what the reason would have been for it.

It's written in the Torah. That's what I told you before. All you have to do is to read the Torah once, and I promise you that 99% of the questions you ask me today and the extra 1,000 questions that you have to ask me, it's in the text of the Torah. For instance, the Torah wrote that you were supposed to be like the stars in the universe and descend on the ground, but I will spread you in all the nations. The Jewish people We are the only nation who are everywhere, all over the world. That was written 3,300 years ago. I will spread you in all the nations and only very few of you will survive. You will be the smallest nation because you did not listen to me. And you are a nation that is subject to reward and punishment, and therefore we started in the same generation like the Chinese people After the flood, 4,200 years ago, in Parashat Noah, it said that the Chinese was born, which is a grandson of Ham, which Shem— we, the Jews, came from Shem. Someone who hates Jews, his name is anti-Semite.

Why?

Because Shem was the righteous son of Noah, and the other two, they spread to Africa and to Europe. And we, Shem, was the uncle of the Chinese. The Chinese are 1% 5 billion, and we Jews, 13.2 million. Why? The Torah predicted that. The Torah say only few of you will survive. We should have been 4 billion Jews today. The Torah already wrote that only few of us will survive. We are the smallest nation in the world.

Now, inside this verse—

one second, I let you answer.

No, no, I ask you question. Answer something totally— why?

I answer to your question.

I don't have respect for—

You say God created all the people. Of course he created all the people.

I know, but you are not addressing the question that I have.

I want Khosrow to ask a question. I don't have respect because I asked him to come here. Go ahead.

Go ahead.

What's the question?

First of all, I really appreciated you invite us and you can talk to us. If we can talk millions and millions, day, we can talk. Only I want to ask you one question. You told me this computer, everything you made it, somebody made it. The dress, it doesn't come from itself. Who make the God?

Oh, very good question.

Who made God?

He says, based on what you say, every creation has a creator. Therefore, we can apply what you say as a proof to the question, who made God? So let me answer you. The question that you ask, it's an illegitimate question, and it comes out of ignorance in Judaism. Not, Hasva Shalom, that you are ignorant. I know you are a very smart person. But ignorance in Judaism. And let me explain to you what I mean. In Judaism, There are something that called material and spiritual. Ruachani, Gashmi. Gashmi means material. Ruachani means spiritual, no material. Now, in the beginning of the creation, the first word in the Torah means in the beginning. Bereshit bara Elohim. In the beginning God created. Albert Einstein already proven, even though the Ramban wrote Ramban wrote it 700 years before him, but nobody knows the Ramban in the university, so Einstein got the credit. Albert Einstein already proven and wrote that time exists only where material exists. I'm sure you're aware of it. Where material exists, time exists. No material, no time. Now, when the Torah begins, in the beginning God created. What does it mean, in the beginning? Beginning means it's subject to time. The answer of the Oral Torah is the creation of time. Once in a billionth of a second when God created raw material—stone, rocks, wood, everything that you have in creation—from the minute that the first physical cell was created, time started to be measured. Until today, it continues every second, as you know. Now, when you go into something spiritual, time does not exist. Let me explain to you what it means. You go to sleep. I'm sure it happens to you. It happens to everyone. And after you fell asleep at midnight, a minute later or 5 minutes later, you wake up, you sweat, you're very nervous. You say to your wife, wow, what a horrible dream I had. And she said to you, what did you dream? And you begin to to tell her a story of 6 months. I was in a boat in the ocean. We hit a rock. The boat got all wet. All the rice, all the Persian rice became all wet. There was nothing to eat. We froze. We're trying to drink salty water. It made us more thirsty. Then the sharks came. They bit my feet. And then I was almost dead. And a boat came, and the Arabs picked me up, and they took me to Saudi Arabia. And they, you know, and they were beating me up. And this Ahmad was torturing me every day, and your wife said to you, excuse me, you're only sleeping 4 minutes. You just say to me good night, you put your head, now it's 12:04. Please tell me how in 4 minutes of time, when you didn't even start to snore, how in 4 minutes you have 6 months in details with conversation, with events that took actually in reality 6 6 months? Because remember, 6 months is a long, long time, and it was fitted inside 4 minutes. The answer is that the Torah says when a person goes to sleep, his soul comes, a part of the soul comes out of the body. The soul is divine, is a spark from God.

The one who blew the soul into Adam Nastrov put a part of himself which is divine and eternal. The question who created God, it's not irrelevant, it's not a legitimate question because in spirituality there's no time.

There's no beginning and end. Since there's no beginning, this question doesn't come into the equation. There's no such thing. God wrote in the Torah, I was always here, I will always be here. There's no other God but me. You'll never find another God under the earth and one above the sky.

There was no one before me.

There will never be one before me. So he covered you from all directions that you should know that these questions is coming from not understanding what's the difference between material and spiritual. I hope I answer your question. Yes?

How did he find the material?

How he made the material? Oh, so the Torah says, Yesh Me'ayin. In the Torah, that—

How did he find The stone, how he put the light.

No, what do you mean how he found?

He created the stone out of nowhere.

You didn't give me the answer who created the God. Because anybody create the God, that God has another creation. No, but I just told you about spiritual. You don't have to— Anyway, I accept the God and I love the God and you say— No, no, but— I want to ask you another question. Okay.

When the God create the whole universe, Universe.

After that, he created all the animals. We say we find the material, he finds the cell, he finds everything, he sits down, he makes two eyes for somebody, somebody makes one eye, somebody makes one hand, somebody makes— he was very, very architectural. He created everybody. Okay. I want to ask you, if you believe in God, he knows He knows everything. He knows past, he knows front, he knows right hand, he knows left hand. He knows everything. He created every animal in the whole world, female and the male. He created all the plants in the whole world, is the creation of the female and the male. But why God decided only create Adam without the Havah and the Hashtushalom, Hashtushalom, he changed his mind or he see he made a mistake or something.

There is no such change.

And he changed the Havah. Because all the animals you have it, all the material you have it, anything you have it here, it has a female and a male. Right, right. The locks you have it, female and male. The whole world has the female and the male?

If the God— I got the question, let me answer you.

Everything he knows and he doesn't need anything and he is creation and he creates everything and he creates all the animals. Yes. Why he decided make the Adam only Adam?

I'll answer you, very simple. By the animal, the animal—

No, I'm answering you.

You didn't give me the answer who created the—

I did, but I said that the question is not relevant.

I mean, it's the same as not accepting scientists based on the science they say.

No, but I answer you, there's a difference anyway.

He answers to you this way. No, no, no. He says God is spiritual. Spiritual. I think, no, no, I respect you, but I think he's more qualified to answer. Don't worry, he's getting there.

Alright, now, maybe, alright, first, I know I did, I'm making a different statement and I want it to be clear. I want to relax all of you. It doesn't really matter what I say or what he says. We love the God, we love everybody. It doesn't matter what I say and what he says.

It doesn't matter. It matters what the people that would watch us tomorrow online will think. I made my point clear or he made it. It doesn't matter if I tell him you didn't prove to me. If I know he proved to me, prove to me, and I say to him, you didn't prove to me, is not going to help me more than 5 minutes. Because tomorrow all the people will watch it online, they will already know who proved to who.

So let's not get panicked. Let the people decide if I answer or not.

I just want to answer him before I forget his question. The answer to his question is like this: all animals do not have free choice. The Torah says the advantage of the human being from the animals, that he has a divine soul and he subject to reward and punishment based on the laws that God gave him to do right or wrong. If he does right, he gets the good reward. If he does wrong, he will get punished. By the animals, there's no such thing. Animal lives by instinct. That's why male and female by the animals are equal. There's no need to make one from the other. However, what do you mean? I don't understand. Male and female by the animals, they are No, they are equal. I mean equal, not one is more important than the other. Not one was made for the other. But when the Torah says that first Hashem made Adam and he made him an assistant. In companies, you need to know who is the president and who is the vice president. When there is a disagreement with them, the president says the last word. If there are two presidents in a company, the company goes bankrupt very fast. God said, and he wanted all women to know it, it's not that he's chauvinist, he gave the women a lot of gifts and lots of credit, and he said they're more wise than men and they deserve a lot of gift and help, and the future of the Jewish nation is in their hands, and they're raising the children. He gives them a lot of gifts, but one thing he needed to make clear to the world, there is no room to women to come like today they do when they don't really have religion. We are the boss and the men will do what I say. That's not the way it is. Your life came from the DNA of Adam. You were created to serve and to help him. At the same time, you have to have love and the rest of the things, but you were made to serve him. That's why Adam was made first and then you brought an assistant. Just like me, when I started to give lecture, I did everything on my own. Now I have 10 assistants. Baruch Hashem, it keeps growing because I cannot take control. Who is more important, me or my assistant? I am more important when it comes to proving and to give speech. They help me, without them I cannot work. But if you have to choose who is going to give the speech, me or them, you are going to choose me, not them. They help me behind the seen. Now, if my assistant would come and say to me, get out, I'm the boss right now, I'm going to speak, it's going to be against the plan.

That's why God needed the women to know their place.

Now, I want just one more thing to say. Wait, wait, one more thing. I want to tell you something. Do you know when you open the Torah, you can prove to yourself in 5 minutes that the Torah is divine? Without me. Do it at home. Open the Torah. All you need to know is the Hebrew alphabet. You don't need to understand what it means. Just to know the alphabet. That's all. You take the word Bereshit. Tav. It finishes with Tav. You take a pencil, make a circle. Count 49 letters, you get Vav. Count 49 letters, you get Resh. Count 49 letters, you get He. The word Torah is hidden in the beginning of Torah in Matanot HaTorah. —semantical code. 49, it's a holy number, 7 times 7. Everything in Judaism is revolved around 7 because 7 symbolizes going out of material. Everything material has 6 dimensions. 7 is coming out of the material world into a spiritual divine world. That's why everything in Judaism is 7, 7, 7. All the customs, all the holidays, everything 7. Now, If you go to Exodus, ve'eleishmot b'nei Yisrael, those are the names of the Jews that came out of Mitzrayim. Eleishmot, it finishes with Tav. Circle the Tav with a pencil, count 49 letters, you get Vav. 49 letters Resh, 49 letters He. Then you go to Leviticus, Vaikra, the name of God in equal skip of 7. Yud, He, Vav, and He. If you want, I can I will email you right now the slides and you can see it and you can see it on my Torah and Science on the screen. Then you go to Numbers, Bamidbar, the name of the Torah, this one, this time in reverse from left to right. Tav, 49 letters reversed. Vav, 49 letters reversed. Resh, 49 letters reversed. Hey.

Then you go to Deuteronomy, Dvarim, the Torah again from left to right. 49 letters Ta, 49 letters Vav, 49 letters Resh, 49 letters He. Now we have a menorah, 5 candles.

The center, which is also the base, is God. Yud, Hei, Vav, and Hei in equal skip of 7. Torah from right to left in equal skip of 49. Torah from left to right in equal skip. So 2 come from right to left and from left to right towards the middle, and the center of the world is God. God himself. Now, when I say to you before, and I did not finish because you had to say something, there was a critical sentence that I almost say, but you cut me. But now, Baruch Hashem, I did not forget it. When the Torah said to the Jews, I'll spread you all over the world, you will worship over there fake religions, the religion of the wood and the religion of the rock. That's a verse in the Torah. Now here comes myself and I say, well, you see, the Torah knew there will be Christianity, there will be Islam, fake religions, and Jews will fall into it as we see today. Now you would come and tell me that's not a scientific proof, and you're right. You would come and say that's your assumption. You decided that the religion of the wood is Christianity, not on wood, even though it's nice, nice idea, but it's not a scientific proof, I agree.

And then you would come and say to me, in the religion of the rock, you decided that it's Mecca, the big rock that the Muslims go to Saudi Arabia and they have this big rock over there.

But it's also nice, but it's not scientific, and here you are right again. But on the third thing, you cannot be right. What is it? Inside this verse. Think about it. This was written 1,300 years before Christianity and 1,800 years before Islam.

Inside this verse that warned the Jews not to worship the religion of the wood and the religion of the rock, there are two codes: JC and Mecca. Mem, 49 letters. Chaf, 49 letters. Hey, Yeshu. Yud, Shin, Vav, Yud, 49 letters. Shin, 49 letters. Vav. The only verse in the Torah that warned the Jews, do not worship fake religion, the religion of the wood, the religion of the rock. After I will spread you all over the world, you may want to worship it. I'm warning you not to worship this religion. The idol worshipper, be careful. It's planted inside the text. Nobody knew back then who's gonna be Mecca and who's gonna be JC. He wasn't even born. He will only be born 1,300 years later.

Inside that text, there is hidden codes which I can show you if you doubt me right now on the screen. Mecca, Mem, Chaf, He, Yeshu, Yud, Shin, Vav in equal mathematical skip. Do you know what statistically the chance that something like this will fall accidentally in a book that never 304,805 letters exactly in the only verse from almost 6,000 verses exactly over there in equal skip of 49, 1 to 680 million. That's the statistic. Do you still think it's coincidence?

A person was able to know about JC? A person was able to know about Mecca?

Was able to or not?

First of all, I love you. And I have to go. First of all—

I also have to go to the bathroom.

You didn't give me the answer. I did. How did he create the woman? He never created.

He got our— From their DNA. And from that he created her.

All the animals in the whole world is not creation of God. It's creation from us. Right. Yeah. He knew that. Why he did it? You didn't give me the answer. I did give you. You told me the thing—

Let the people decide.

No, because, because, because, because Hashem wanted the women to know that their existence, their only existence can They came from the men. They came from the actual rib of the man, and Hashem made him and assisted Ezekiel.

Why?

First of all, you have to know one thing. To ask why the sky is blue, the answer: because God wanted so. To ask why God made us with nose like this and not all the way to the wall, because that's what he wanted. Why he wanted us to have hair black and blonde and silver, because that's what he wanted. He could also make it orange. He could make it yellow. So there's many, many questions like this. There is no end to this question, but that's not leading anywhere. That's what happened.

That's what the Torah said that happened.

When you come in front of God after 120 years, I encourage you to say, dear God, you made my wife from my rape, my grandfather. Can you tell me why? Why you're not feminist enough? Why you gave her existence thanks to me? I want to finish my point of the argument, and then you can conclude yourself by giving you one last proof for today. And I'm going to give you, B'ezrat Hashem, some of my CDs. And you and I, I'm sure that we're going to stay good friends and we'll continue to go. Yes, and yes, and that's the way we should keep it because it's above everything.

I just want to give you the last proof for today.

And of course, like I told you, in the CD you can see over there 30 or 40 extra proofs over there, which I'm sure that will give you enough things to think about. But let me give you the last proof. You know, as a scientist, I mean, as a person who admires science, you know that until Galileo Galilei, all the people in the world believed that there's between 6,000 to 8,000 stars. There's no way to know. No telescope, no nothing. One day in 1608, Galileo Galilei, which was a world-famous scientist back then, 400 years ago. He invented the telescope. Some say Hubble started it 30 years early and he finished it. It's not relevant. Galileo is the first one in history that we know that had a major serious telescope, 6 feet wide. When Galileo raised his telescope to the sky, the world was shocked. Everyone thought it's maximum 8,000 stars because there's no way to see more. Nobody had dreamed there's billions. When Galileo arrived there, people just found out that there's a lot more than what we thought. From then on until today, of course, science keeps developing. Today, if you go to the encyclopedia, the number of the stars in the universe is 10 to the power of 19, which means a 19-digit number. Now, you have to agree with me that 2,000 years ago when there was no equipment like we have today, no satellite, no mega computer, because nobody was able to write, to count a number of 19 digits. 1 to the power of 19.

I'll show you the exact number. No! 10 to the power.

I'm sorry, excuse me, correction. 10 to the power of 19, you're right, 10 to the power of 19. I can tell you the exact number if you want. I'll show you the exact number. Here it is. Let me go to it. And then you can see.

Now, you have to agree with me on one thing.

Nobody can doubt that. That 2,000 years ago when the Talmud was written, in the time of Chazal and the Chneset HaGdolah, nobody could dream there are more than 8,000 stars because there is no way to know. If there is no God, if there is no Torah, and the people just counting, they stand on a mountain and count it manually, max maximum 8,000 stars. No way to know more than that without a telescope, a major telescope. Now, even today, if we wanted to count them manually, we won't live enough. Do you know to count 10 to the power of 19? Do you know what a number? Quadrillion. It will take us forever to count them. And plus, how do we know they exist? You have to take pictures of all the galaxies.

You need satellite.

It's very complicated. This is what the Torah says. The nation of Israel came to God. This is the Gemara, the Talmud. You can write it down, Masechet Brachot, page 32, which is oral Torah again. The Gemara said the nation of Israel came to God and said, dear God, a person gets remarried and he never forgets his ex-wife. How did you forget us completely and neglected us? That was after the destruction of the Second Temple. 2nd Temple by the Romans. Happens twice already. Babylonians, the Romans. So the Jewish nation were devastated. Horrible time in history. So they asked God, they said, dear God, why did you forget us? Why did you neglect us completely? And the Gemara writes like this: Amar la Kadosh Baruch Hu. And God answered to the nation of Israel, B'ti, my daughter. 12 sections I created in the universe.

And in each section I created 30 armies.

And in each army I created 30 legions. And in each legion I created 30 ratons. And in each raton I created 30 karatons.

And in each karaton I created 30 gistera. And in each gistera I hung 365,000 ribot.

Ribot in Hebrew means revava, 10,000, 5 digits.

365,000 ribot, 5 more digits, and all of—

365 is 6 digits. 300, no, 365,000 ribot. Ribot, ribot revava means 10,000 and up. 5 digits. No, 365,000 times— multiplied by 10,000. Now let me read it to you that you don't catch me inaccurate by 1%. We want to make it very, very clear. So here is, here is my proof right here. I'm going to give, I'm going to give you the math. I'm going to give you the exact math, and you're more than welcome to come to my site and look at the math. But you don't even need that. You just take my tone and Science DVD, or you go on my website and you can see it in front of your eyes. But here it is. This is what it is. Let me just find it quickly. Give me a minute. Okay, here you go. So now, this is what— let's do the calculation together. 12, by the way, is the horoscope. The Earth goes around the Sun one year. It finishes cycle 365 days. Every month it moves 30 degrees. By the end of the year it finished 360 degrees, which is a full circle. And we can see that it says 12 sections. So if you look at the universe, the universe is a shape, a round shape, and it goes in like slices of pizza, 12 different slices, and in each one of them there's X amount of stars. But not only that, it gives us 10 to the power of 19. In the Torah, which you're going to see in a minute, the scientist, and I'm going to give you his name, that discovered that, the scientist that discovered that, described it exactly like the Talmud wrote. And he's not Jewish, not a rabbi, never learned Gemara. It's all based on science, which you admire very much, but that's an objective science, which I also admire very much.

There's only one difference between you and me.

You admire all kinds of science. I only admire objective, accurate science, not speculative science. You believe your own scientists. No.

Yes, you call your scientists that you believe objective science.

50 years ago, if they say to you, you can see your family in the—

Wait, one second. Let's not get out. Let's not get out of my—

No, no, no, I believe you can.

Here you go. 12. Here you go. Here is now. Okay, so I'll read it to you.

Thank you very much. Here is what I'll read to you. Stay 2 more minutes and you can leave.

In the year 1990, Dr. T. Brewhurst from Queen Mary College in London had a research computer.

It's the size of a building, each computer.

And found there are 10 to the power—

10, as you can see right here, 10 to the power of 19 stars in the universe.

That was in 1990, 24 years ago. These discoveries, this is what he wrote. He wrote that there are constellations and inside the constellations there are hosts and inside the hosts there are legions and inside the legions there are divisions and in each one of the divisions there are battalions and in each one of the battalions there are camps. And in each one of the camps there are stars. So he breaks it to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 sections, which one is inside the other, one inside the other, inside the other, inside the other, 7 different categories.

Now let's do the math. The math is calculation.

What is this one for?

Wait, wait, wait, write it down, write it down.

And you already quoted another scientist which I totally disagreed with, but you know, at least, at least to the knowledge that I have, I don't know what this guy, this, you know, 25 years ago technology, those room-sized computers had less knowledge and power and capability than this. So that's irrelevant, what was known 25 years ago and what's known today.

You're not talking about him, you're missing the point completely.

I'm surprised.

Do you think I care about what Dr. T. Brewer said from Queen Mary College?

I'm very surprised at you.

Wait, no, no, no, I just want to take you back 2,000 years ago. When the only way was to take 8,000 stars maximum and tell me who was able to write in the oral Torah that there are 10 to the power of 19 stars. Imagine if NASA today would prove there are only 50,000 stars. Judaism would be over. Who would write such a thing? I create the 12 sections, in each section 30, 30, 30, 30, 30. 365,000, 10,000, which is 7 sections. And here you go today, 24 years ago, the scientists found that there are 10 to the power of 19 stars. Now wait, wait, I promise you all the time you need to comment on it.

Just give me one more 30 seconds. That's it. Now, I really don't care what Dr. T. Brewer found. And if somebody tomorrow come and say that he found 10 to the power of 21, I don't care. For one reason. Why? They themselves admit that every time the satellites will take pictures of all the galaxies from all different angles, every time they will repeat the research, they'll come with a different number. Absolutely. Exactly.

So we agree on that.

I'm not denying it. And I know—

It's not that— no, no, no, no, no, no. It's not that they come up with a different number.

No, the computer will count different numbers. No, no, no.

There is no computer counting anything. Sure there is.

No, no, no. That's what I said to you.

Computer count all the dots. All the pictures from the satellites came and a computer were able to count all of them.

My dear Rabbi, there was no computer 25 years ago who could count stars.

1990s. Who could count stars. It was the size of a building. No, no, no, you are not getting it. Mega computer.

No, no, no, no, no. The computer from 25 years ago, the mega computers did not have as much power. Power of a small computer today. But that's not the issue. According to scientists, they know the number of stars are in the billions. No one really gave a specific number.

Beautiful. We agree on that.

Also, these are the claims that they are making, that universe is expanding. There is a numerous number of universes. That they cannot count and they are growing. Therefore, even if you gave a number, even if somebody came with a number—

You're repeating what I already agreed on. There's no point. I already told you whatever they say is not relevant. Only one thing is relevant. Please try to go to the bottom of what I say.

There's only one thing that's relevant. 400 years ago, nobody in the whole world in the whole world would even dream to write that there is such a number of stars, whether it's a billion, whether it's a trillion. Nobody would dream. People would only count a few thousand stars, end of story.

Here in the Talmud, it was written 2,000 years ago with no mega computer, with no laptop, with no calculator, with no satellite, with no camera. No camera that can even take picture of one star.

With a brain.

No, so there was no way to know how many stars in the world.

The question is, who would write in the Talmud, which is oral Torah, such a strange thing, unless if he really knows such a thing? I don't understand.

Who would write such a thing?

And if all you're saying is correct, and I have no knowledge, I'm neither a scholar—

I gave you all the names, you can go and Google it.

No, no, I'm not questioning you. All I'm telling you is that I don't know. No, I'm saying assuming I accept all you say and I'm not questioning it, besides the fact that they are irrelevant, I'm accepting that there are many intelligent people throughout history who came and they did wonderful things.

What intelligent person knows the future? What intelligent person knows what's going to be in 2,000 years from now?

By proving existence of one thing, which cannot use that as a base of existence of another.

Not necessarily. Sometimes it does possible. It is.

If I prove there is light here, I prove at the same time there is no darkness here.

No, no, we can assume. It's possible.

It could be your theory and it could be assumed. Look, the same as scientific theories. First of all, I just want for some of your audience, I really want this to be enlightening. I want us to find out. Probably me more than him and him more than me. We want to be enlightened. We want to understand the reasoning behind these things because according to Jewish religion, you are not a good Jew unless you question. So it's our duty to question. And until we are convinced, we are going to continue questioning. But having said that one, I really—

Let me offer you something. Let's meet here once a week in this show with the permission of Mr. Zamir. Let's meet here once a week with Asil and all the other gentlemen over here and we learn. 1, 2 hours a week. I come over here. You come every week with all your questions and we learn. And you ask me how do we know this. We don't have to finish. As long as we make progress.

And having said that one, I really never came here to convince anyone. I don't want anyone to believe otherwise, as I just want to see what's the answers according to Torah to certain things. Look, you were just talking about Adam and Eve. Was God having the same value system at the beginning as he or she has now?

No.

The value system changed?

Changed from the minute the Torah was given to humanity, it went up a lot from what it was before. Changed his— not changed. From the minute he gave his book, we found out the total purpose of the creation and what God wants from the Jewish people. Now you ask me, what about the Gentiles? They don't have to follow the same purpose? The answer is no.

The Torah says no. That's all.

Let's say, does God— did God ever approve an incest creation like a brother and sister mating?

Did God ever accept? In the beginning it was allowed. In the beginning?

Before the time of Noah it was allowed. Cain and Abel was born. The oral Torah teach Cain was born with two twins and Abel was born with two twins and Cain was born with one. And that's one of the reasons why he murdered him. And then based on reincarnations, Cain, Abel came back as reincarnation.

Reincarnation. They died and they came back.

Came back and soul comes back in a new body. I brought you right here Life After Death film. Watch it, you'll love it very much, I promise you. And it's proving scientifically that we are here in different reincarnations, and you can hypnotize a person and he can speak in languages that he had in his previous life. And the answer is like this, look, Judaism is an ocean. It's not a 1, 2, or 3 hours learning. People learning yeshiva 70, 80 80 years and they still tell you they don't know 1% of the ocean of knowledge. So therefore it's going to be ridiculous to think that between 1 or 2 or 1,000 hours that we're going to sit and learn, we, you and I, will know everything. We don't know everything, but we do know the foundation. We know very important things to know. We know that the Torah has thousands of things in it that every person that use judgment and common sense know that a person was unable to know it. And the Torah refers to us, to you as a Kohen, you are much more important than me, you come from the family of Moses and Aaron. The Torah refers to us that there is, I am giving you today the life and the good, the bad and the death, and you should choose the good, which means you can choose the bad, I am not interfering with your free choice. But in the end Everything will be heard and everyone will get judged for good and bad based on the choices that he made. He donated, he'll get a reward. He stole, he'll get punished. He kept the Sabbath, he'll get a reward.

He did not keep, he'll get punished. And there are many, many things in the Torah. Now, again, to prove the Torah, I suggest you take my Torah and Science.

I'm sure you're intelligent, so you'll be curious to see what's in it. There are millions of different codes inside the Torah that no person was able to plant without changing the text.

Because if I tell you, my dear friends, I want you to write to me one page in a book, one page, describe to me what happened to you from the day you came to this country until today in one page. But at the same time, I want you to write inside the text many hidden codes. That telling me about Menachem Begin and about Saddam Hussein and about George Bush and about Stephen Hawking and plant many stories one inside the other in equal scientific mathematical skip without changing your life story. In a billion years, you and all the scientists in the world combined will not be able to write such a page. In a billion years.

I totally respect you, Rabbi, but—

Thank you very much. I love you too. I love you too.

I, with all due respect, I— you can always alter what happened and interpret it otherwise. Now, if you allow me—

You cannot alter math. Allow me, allow me, allow me, allow me. I need to ask the question. Yes.

If you made the same statement about 20 years from now, 10 years from now, you told me 10 years from now, based on the same math, according to you, it exists. That's a different claim. But going back in history and saying those and this means, and however we can manipulate numbers, however one wants. He means this. That's a different story. I'm not saying it's correct, I'm not saying it's incorrect, but I'm saying you can make that claim if you predict the future, not tell us about the past. The past is gone.

And then you go back and say, well, this man said this. That's the whole point. That's the whole point.

If I'm giving you a book today, and in a thousand years from today you open the book and you see what's going to happen in a thousand years from now, which I have right now, I have no idea. Nobody knows what's going to happen tomorrow.

Well, doesn't it say in the Torah?

That's what I'm saying to you. Did you know that the murder of Yitzhak Rabin is described in the Torah in codes, and the murderer, that his name was Yigal Amir, and Yitzhak Rabin has a mutual resh?

Wait, wait. Mutual resh! But again, you're going somewhere.

In hidden codes, mathematics.

We're not— math, math, science, math. According to you.

No, show the math and the science to apply 10 years from now, not 20 years from now.

What am I missing here? I don't get it. You are missing my question. He doesn't understand the depth of your proofs. You've proven your point over and over. No, no, no. You don't understand. No, no, no. You don't understand. No, no, no. He's looking for it. No, no, no, no, no. Maybe you did.

Maybe it's my fault. Wait, wait. It's my fault because I did not explain to him what codes are. That's what— No, no.

We are limited in time. I should have explained to him the whole concept of codes. Codes in a book that predict events that will take in the future.

I want to show you.

You and I sat before.

A lot of these, I don't know if you remember. I recall now.

How long ago? Baradarian's house. You and I had— 10 years ago?

No, not that long.

When I used to have black hair, you mean?

Maybe I had black hair. No, no, no, no. You and I had conversation before. It was joyful then. It is joyful now. People not— look, the idea is not— when someone says you don't get it, it's not the depth, it's not lack of intelligence, it's not lack of— we are not dealing with idiotic approaches. I read a lot, I study a lot, maybe not the Torah, but I want to understand things for a different purpose, for a different reason. Now, when you tell me, let's say, when I ask you specific things and you assume, and your audience probably accepts the answers, but I'm not sold on it, you already had them sold, but you didn't sell me. And your challenge is to sell me not to sell them, because people that are in essence believers, they accept.

All the questions I ask you tonight, not one of them you answer with yes or no. At least Now do me a favor, answer with yes or no. A human being, he knows absolutely the future of the world in details, yes or no? Human being.

I don't. Human being.

Any human being knows the future? Okay. A human being is able to write a book with 305,000 letters almost, which you know how thick is the Torah, and inside each chapter to write about thousands of thousands of events in equal mathematical code skip planted inside the text without changing the 1,000 years of history that the book is talking about.

Which means I'm writing about 1,000 years of events, and inside what I wrote, I actually wrote about thousands of others. Which means, let me give you an example what I'm talking about. And God say to Moses, one day you lay with your fathers and this nation will rebel against me and turn into a fake god. In a nations that they would live upon them and they would leave me and break my covenant that I made with them. And I will be very angry at them at that day and I would leave them. And I will close my face to them, and the enemies will eat them, and many tragedies will come to them. And the nation would say, these tragedies are happening to us because there is no God upon us.

That's why all these things are happening to us. I'm translating word by word. And the end of it, and I will I will close my face at that day.

For everything that they did to me, I will pay them back.

Now, in this one, it's a description of the horrible Holocaust that we had in Germany. How do I know? We had many different pogroms and many other tragedies. How do I know he's talking about Hitler and his friends? How do I know? Very simple. Inside that text, it's in Deuteronomy 31:18. Verse 16 to 18. Remember, it's written, it's recorded, you can know where it is. Vayomer Hashem el Moshe, and God said to Moshe, you take the hey of Moshe, circle it with a pencil, count 49 letters, you get shin, count 49 letters, you get vav, count 49 letters, you get aleph, count 49 letters, you get hey. Ha Sho Ha. The Holocaust. Now you tell me please, and please a straight honest answer. 3,000 or 3,300 years ago, doesn't matter, it's plenty of time. Someone wrote a book. He claimed that he is God. He claimed he is the creator of the world. He claimed he made a covenant with the Jewish people in a public event. He gave them the Torah. Torah in Hebrew means instructions, and he told them to never, never I will never break the covenant that I made with you. I chose you from all the nations to be mine.

You represent me and you are my children. Banim atem la Hashem Elokehen. And a Kohen, extra special. Special of special. And that's what you are. And hopefully you will understand what it means one day, because until now you're not sure what does it mean to be a Kohen. Because if you knew how lucky you are, you would run here in the street and screaming, thank you, God, for making me The chosen of the chosen of all the people in the world. From 7.5 billion people, I'm one of few thousands.

And the top of the pyramid.

Here is what the Torah say. They will leave me. I will turn the Gentiles against them to have tragedies. They would scream, where is God? There is no God. Look what's going on here. I close my eyes.

I will not be with them. I would leave them. Inside the text, the Holocaust in equal mathematical scheme. It cannot be coincidence, Mr. Hagakian. It cannot be coincidence.

Please, you have to be honest.

It cannot be coincidence that in a book that is given in a public event and is a book of God and it's over there, it says one day I would leave you and the Gentiles will murder you in a Holocaust. Holocaust and the tragedy, and inside the text, you know, this modern world.

Nobody know the word Holocaust until 70 years ago.

That's a modern world.

The same thing he wrote about AIDS. Well, in a chapter that speaks about homosexuality, AIDS in equal mathematical skip. And Shabbat. And the nation of Israel observed the Sabbath. In this verse, the word Israel appear in equal mathematical skip.

Keep of 7, because it's talking about the 7th day. That's math, that's science, not speculation. That's—

you have to agree on one thing, come on.

No, no, no, we are going to agree on probably a lot of things.

My issue is not to agree or not to agree. My issue is to understand the logic of certain things. When You go when something happens and you find a verse and you turn it and you count it and you do and you make it sound like as though it was stated before rather than what can be— why can't we read one of these verses and off of it, since you know the codes, all the codes are here, maybe predict when is the next holocaust?

Holocaust is going to be. First of all, news for you.

Sometimes you can predict the future. Let me tell you, in the first war with Saddam Hussein and George Bush the father, I had the privilege to meet the professor who developed the software that finds codes in the Torah, Professor Eliyahu Ribs. He came to Columbia University, is one of the top 5 mathematicians in the world, was a Russian communist anti-Torah. And he, after he was paid to develop a software to search for codes in the Torah, he became ultra, ultra religious. More than you and me, 10 times more combined. And he became very, very religious. Was atheist, communist, scientist, one of the best in the world. And I have a list of 100 like this, which if you want, I'll give it to them. The greatest Jewish brains that became religious as a result of of searching the Torah. And this is what he asked me. I lived in Manhattan back then. Can you go bring him food? He doesn't know where to get kosher food. And this is what he said. I said to him, why don't you publish it? That's going to be billions of dollars discovery. Nobody knew about it. It just came out. He said to me, I don't care. I want other people. I said, but people will steal it from you. It's the biggest discovery in history. Do something about it. He said, I don't care, I want people to publish it. Didn't think to money.

He wanted, he gave it for free. His whole goal was, his whole goal was, thank you, the goal was that he wants the world to know that the Torah is divine because a person cannot plan such codes and know the future.

But I tell you something, what we did know. When Saddam Hussein get got an ultimatum to come out of Kuwait. If I remember correctly, I think it was February 15th, if I remember correctly. But it's not relevant. Saddam Hussein, George Bush the father, and the coalition, they told him, you have by the 15th to get out. If you don't come out by the 15th, we will attack you. Saddam invade Kuwait. So Professor Reeves and Dr. Doronvitz, two Israeli scientists, from the Hebrew University, they told us, we knew, I knew, I am the little puppet, I knew before the whole world that Saddam Hussein will not be attacked on the 15th, on the 16th, on the 17th. I knew it was going to be on the 18th. How did I know? When George Bush announced the date, they put the date in Hebrew date in the computer and they saw that the The event doesn't come out. They put George Bush, the computer searched and found it in equal mathematical skip. They put Saddam Hussein. Saddam in Hebrew you write with sadik. The Iraqi, even the Persian, when they say sa, they say sa. They don't know how to say sa. You know, so sa.

Saddam, it's sadik. It came sadik, dalet, aleph, mem, Hussein.

In equal mathematical skip. Yeah, of course, but Saddam, Saddam the Iraqi, like Rafsatka, his name is Satka. That's how they pronounce it. So what happened? So we put Milhamed Amifrat, the Gulf War, George Bush, Saddam Hussein, all of them came in the same page. So now we know this connection. We put the 15th of February, and don't catch me on the date because it may have been January. We put it, the computer didn't find. We put the 16th. 16th of February, translating it to Hebrew date, he didn't find. Put the 17th, he didn't find. We put the 18th, boom, it came. So he said, I'm telling you already, don't worry, the war won't start tomorrow, and not the next day, and not the next day. The following day, the war will start. And that's how it was. So we see that sometimes, even though you're limited, because you need to have a beginning. I give you an example. Right now I put AIDS, I find the Any computer would find it in Parashat Noah, that's speaking about Sodom and Gomorrah, that God destroyed all the wicked people. Now the AIDS is appearing in a chapter that speaks about homosexuality, which shows you there's no coincidence. However, AIDS will never have a cure. I spoke to Professor Rubinstein, we used to make seminars together 18 years ago. He is the one who invented the word HIV. He is the professor who named AIDS AIDS. Professor Rubinstein from Einstein Hospital in the Bronx, and I spoke to him in lunch, and I asked him, do you think there will be a cure to the AIDS? He told me cure, no. Vaccine, maybe, yes. We only focusing on vaccine that it won't enter to the body. Why? Because it's mutation. It keeps changing. You attack one, it change to another, and it knows how to hide. It's— that's, by the way, how he became religious. I was complete atheist scientist.

One of the biggest doctors in the world, Professor Rubinstein, he met with the president, got budget for the research of the AIDS. They put him, I think, if I remember, in Science magazine or in Time magazine, one of the top doctors in the world. A very important person. By research AIDS, he became religious.

He said because all other viruses behave in one way, like nature, and this virus is clever like people. He knows how to change. That's against the law of nature. And that's what got him to think maybe after all there is a God and he punished the wicked people and started to search. 3 days argument, not 2 hours. 3 days! And he became fully religious and moved to Monsey. Until today he's there. But, but, this is what the interesting part is. Let's say tomorrow they will announce on CNN that the inventor This is a medicine for AIDS vaccine. Once you get it, you can never get it. Now you may come and say to me, no, how didn't you find it in the Torah before they found it? I say to you, come, I'll show you that it's in the Torah. I'll put the name of the medicine. Let's say they're called the medicine Rubinstein. So I put the name, the computer will find it in the same page. No question about it. So you ask me, but, uh, big deal. Now you know after You heard what is the medicine, you know how to find it in the Torah. So my answer to be with you, come on, who cares when I found it?

It was all along in the Torah. God already put it in the Torah. I just did not know what to look for.

I didn't know what to look for.

Exactly, that's the whole thing. But it was in the Torah. No, no, no, I'm questioning because when you say you can write a program to calculate based on certain things.

These are all mathematical. Any word based on any sequence into—

how many words did you say is in Torah?

They check 130 books. I'm answering your question.

Yeah, I got your question. I got it. They put 130 books, include New Testament, Quran, Moby Dick, New York Times. They did not—

How many verses do we have?

We have about almost 6,000 verses.

6,000 verses, you'll find— What do you think, the scientists didn't do what you say? You have to give those scientists, which are the best brains in the world, a little bit more credit. The first thing before they publish in Statistical Science an article about what they found, that they checked many other books to see that in other books you don't have the same. And they didn't find another book.

No.

So they wrote, so they wrote, in other books we found random codes. What does it mean random? In a combination of 300,000 letters, of course you're gonna find, you're gonna find your name, you're gonna find my name.

But how do you know if it's planned or it's random? The closer the letters are and they all fall in the same page. You put your name, it comes in one page.

You put your wife's name, it comes in the first page.

You put all your children's names, it comes in the same page in equal mathematical skip. You put your residence, your street, all kinds of things that connects to you. If one letter is in the beginning of the book, one letter is in the middle of the book, and one letter is in the end of the book, it's random. That can happen, no problem.

But if all of them in one page, for instance, we are coming soon to Tu B'Shvat. Shavuot is the holiday of all the fruits, vegetables in the Torah. We have more than 50 words—

barley, wheat, apples, grapes, everything that grows on trees— we put inside the Torah. The Torah found all of them in one page. Which page? The page that God said to Adam, I'm giving you and I'm putting you in Garden of Eden to reserve it and to maintain it.

Which means it's all under your supervision. The page in the Torah that speaks about trees in the Garden of Eden, in that page, and it cannot be coincidence again, more than 50 words in equal mathematical skip in the same page that connects to fruit of gardens of trees. It's not possible that something like this. Now, if it was be some here, some there, some there, like Christians also try to fake.

They say, eh, we also found in the New Testament.

But if you know how to check it, you see right away it's scam, because they find one letter here, one letter there, one letter in the end. That's not what I'm talking about. All the codes that I spoke to you are all in one page here. The Holocaust, one page. The Torah, Torah, Torah, Torah, and the name of God, all in one page. Everything, AIDS, one page.

All the events of the George Bush and Saddam in one page.

It can never ever be, ever scientifically, statistically, can never be without a divine power that wrote that book. Because not you and not me and not Hawkins and not Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky and not Rabbi Ovadia Yosef and not anyone you want can write such a book and put millions of codes inside in equal mathematical skip and know all the future.

No one besides God.

The main issue, you know, about the claims that are in Torah about the timing is the biggest question. I mean, you deny science. You just say those scientists don't— I don't deny science. Yes, you do. No, I don't. You're saying that—

I deny for coolative science. Speculatively.

Well, you can name it like that. Look, you can name this one car, but it doesn't become a car.

I can name whatever I want. The burden of proof on you to prove to me that the science that you believe in proves anything. Rabbi, Rabbi. So far you failed to do so. No, no, no, no, no. You did not supply me with any proof.

No, no, no, I did not come here with proof, but this is something that has happened.

I'm not running anywhere. I'm not running. So show me a proof. I give you my word. If you show to me a scientific—

How do you mean show to me?

Okay, email, Facebook, phone call. What do you mean? No, no, no, no.

You have to send me.

You claim that you have a solid objective scientific proof to the exact age of the world, not based on carbon dating, which is speculation, or based on extrapolation.

That's how they measure.

No, but that's speculations. What?

That is not speculation.

Do yourself a favor, put in my website Fingerprints of the Creation by Robert Gentry, and you'll never dare to ask this question ever again, I promise.

When you say, and all scientists believe that dinosaurs are from ancient years ago, and you are claiming they were from Noah's time, And then you call your scientific and you approve it and you call the other ones speculative.

I don't call myself science. I never claim that what we know comes from science. No, no, no, I'm saying your belief. No, no, please don't change my words.

I'm saying you're saying that let's say the dinosaurs, they existed 3,000, 4,000 years ago.

4,200 years.

5,000, whatever the number. And science, scientists, when I say science, I'm talking about majority, and I'm not talking about 51% for majority, I'm talking about 98% of the scientists believe otherwise. And you say, well, those are speculative, and the 2 scientists out of the 100 that I'm talking about say this.

So simple and you make it so complicated. I gave you a candy today, you don't get it. I'm only telling you, all you have to do is to send me one email with one research by any name you want, you name it. Scientist X, Scientist Y, University X, University Y that proven ever the age of the world and the argument is over.

That's all, what do you want more than that? You will not, and I promise you, No, you will never send me anything because 20 years I tell people to send me, include scientists, and they fail to do so because there are none. There is none. No, you're calling it fake. Of course. Okay, let me tell you something. Okay, I didn't want to get into it, but you're forcing me.

Do you know how they calculate the age of the world? What's the 3 most frequent methods that the scientists do? Used to calculate the age of the world.

I don't know about carbon.

Okay. Carbon dating, extrapolation, and cores. Okay?

Now here it goes. Extrapolation means you check how much a material grew from point X to point Y in X amount of years, and you do the math. If this material is that size, you go back, back, back, back.

That gives you X amount of years that the world exists. Carbon dating, it shows that every 683 years the carbon-14 is doubled inside the object.

Which means carbon dating, if you know, by the highest methods that they ever found, there are few problems with this speculation.

One, in different parts of the world, the formula is not accurate.

Depends if it's cold, if it's hot, if it's frozen. That's one thing.

Second, when God created the world, He created the world.

There is nowhere in the world or nowhere in Judaism that he wrote to you with how much carbon-14 he created each material.

That's where the scientists are forced to speculate, and each one puts a different number, and they all come with different conclusions. That's not science. Excuse me, that's speculation. You and I can do the same thing. I encourage you.

I encourage you.

Look, look, these are all the science. All of these scientific bases are used to advance Earth and humanity. Come on. I gotta tell you something.

You have to—

I don't want to insult you.

It's not my nature. I don't like to be, God forbid, dirty or to make you or to insult you. But I have to tell you one thing. You, a very nice human being, nice, charismatic, smart. You read books, everything you are I give you all the credits. But one thing you don't get, there's one thing you're missing here. You coming to argue with me about science. You claim that science already proven the age of the world. I say to you, science never proved anything. I'm doing it for 20 years on a weekly basis. Science never proven. Do you think I'm going to be such a fool to stand in front of millions of viewers that will watch this debate and I'm going I'm going to say to you science never proven anything for 20 years and I'm going to finish my career over this not relevant issue which is not even contradicting the Torah?

It would be a lot easier for me to come and tell you, you know what, you got it, the world is billions of years old.

What does it have to do with God and the Torah that you and I have to keep the Sabbath, which is an eternal covenant between us and him to make us Jewish and to belong to his nation? What does it have to do if the world is billions of years old? 5,000 years old or 5 billion years old? It's not relevant to the issue. The only reason I went with that is because I know I'm 1 million percent right and you are not right because you missed a few points. Now I ask you right now, and again, I'm not trying, Hasid Shalom, to insult you. It's the last thing on my mind. I ask you if you know how the scientists calculate the age of the world, and with all due respect to you, you didn't even know.

You only said that you know about carbon dating, and you also did not know how carbon dating works. You should have known that carbon dating, it's a proof that the world is only maximum 25,000 years old. If you did your homework, carbon dating only proved that the world— the maximum object that they found based on that, that the world is maximum 25,000 years old.

So the last thing you want to bring into the debate is carbon dating. I was expecting you to tell me —extrapolation, calls, all kinds of other things which already goes into the billions.

You chose out of the 3 methods the worst one that is very close to me.

But that's not the issue.

That's the issue! You come in the name of science and you give inaccurate science.

I told you I'm ill-qualified to be— to speculate on scientific findings. I clarified that one at the beginning. Beginning. I agree.

Okay, no, no, no, no, no.

Minimum amount of knowledge when you come to a debate.

I will not go to argue about medicine and about brains with doctors that do brains because I know I'm not in their level.

I'm not going to argue about computers because I don't know that much about computers. I will argue at what I know I'm good. You see, I won't argue with you about clothing because I know you're billion times better than me how to design and to come with ideas and in business and all this. I know it's not my field. I don't come to argue with you about what you're an expert in. But you coming to argue with me about what I'm an expert, world expert in, and you don't even have the simple evidence to back one word of what you say. I'm telling you, absolutely not correct. You didn't even know how the scientists calculate the age of the world, and you already claim that it's been proven. It's not been proven. It's recorded. No, no, no, no. It's not been proven.

You are not accepting the findings.

I want to ask the audience, is it fair if I ask him to send me one email? Absolutely.

One email to prove to me that the scientists actually prove, not speculate.

Speculation I can do and he can do.

Prove. Prove means 2 plus 2 is 4. Proving means if there's 1,000 people with headache, and each one of them took 2 Advil. 990 of them, the headache went away. Oh, now we're talking.

We see it helps.

Without it, the headache stayed by everyone. When you give it to 1,000 people, 990 reported that they don't have headache. Now you begin to talk about objective science. So we know that 99.9% of the people, Advil will cure their headache. Not cure, but will take away their headache. That's called to prove. You're not giving me proof. You're giving me all kinds of names that scientists throw, and it's not a proof.

Look, the simplest thing that you and I talked about, let's say the existence of, let's say dinosaurs for that. All scientists collectively, they opened up museums and put in gates, but you do not accept their logic.

No, I think dinosaurs existed. I know, but They do not say 3,000 years ago. You said millions of years ago, and I know for sure that they existed. How do you know? Because I tell you.

You read Torah. Very simple. No, no, no, I tell you how I know.

I tell you how I know. I'm not a scientist. Without the Torah, I would not have a way to know 99% of what I know today. Why? All I have to do is to prove that the Torah could not be written by human being, and the one that I know the Torah is God.

From that moment on, I don't even have to use my head.

All I have to do is to read what God says in his Torah, and I know it's a fact. Now, if you will come and show me one or two mistakes in the Torah, take as much time as you want. You point at one verse in the Torah and you prove otherwise, you won the argument. No, take your time. Take an expert. Take an ex—

expert, sit with you, find me, do search in internet, find me one mistake in the Torah, one mistake in the Mishnah that what—

The timing of it.

Find an expert, pay someone $1,000, he'll do the research for you.

You have, you have, I have to understand one thing.

Wait a second, but you are not accepting it, Rabbi. Sure I am.

Find me one mistake in the Torah, me and you will go to McDonald's on Yom Find me one mistake. What do you think?

I want to grind water?

I am saying the fact that Earth is more than 5,000 years. That's not a fact.

That's not a fact. That's more than that. You know, you're saying the science is not relevant to Judaism.

It's really a false argument. Forget it.

Okay, whatever you want to say, fine.

It's not relevant to the Torah. Torah. Now here is the point, the point, the conclusion that I'm making to you is, and we'll finish with that, we have to finish with that, but I want to tell you just one quick one-minute story and we'll finish with that. One teacher took his class to the Juda— Judaea— to the Judaea desert, and they did not drink for 3 days already, they got mixed, they don't know, and about to die. They are already dehydrated. So they said, what are we going to do? Oh, they found in the night, they found a light somewhere. They went there and they saw in the middle of nowhere somebody lives there, a monk. They knock on the door, he opened the door and they all went inside. And they said, we are dying, we are fainting, please, 3 days we did not drink, help us. He said, oh, it happens all the time. I have a game, it's called Russian roulette. Persian roulette, not Russian roulette. Here is 100 glasses of water, as you can see, ready for people like you that made mistake. It's common. In one of them there is a very serious poison that as soon as you drink it, you die immediately. But the other 99 are clean. But at the same time, I want you to know that if you only 3 days lost, I know already nobody dies before 4 days without water. You can make it. I'll tell you I show you how to make it. You have to walk another 15 hours and you make it to shore with plenty of water, no risk, no nothing. You suffer, you have headache, but you can make it to the shore.

I'm going to give you the map and show you how to go.

Your life will get saved.

Do you want to take the risk and pick up a glass of water right now and drink?

You may die. You may drink and everything will be fine. Or you want to suffer another 10, 15 hours and make it to a safe place? What would I want you answer as one of the students. Would you drink the water or you rather suffer 10 more years and leave for shore? Remember, you are 18 years old, you don't want to die young, you don't want to take a risk now drinking. Okay. I asked this question many times in my career and so far besides one fool, everyone told me that they will go to shore, better to suffer 10, 15 more hours than to take a risk and die right away. Now I want to finish by telling you this. Why did I tell you this story? Why do you think I'm in the mood to tell stories? This story has a trap, and I just put a trap and you fell into it. And this is what I'm going to show to you how you fell into it. Because you, after all, have very good common sense. Because you answered the right answer. No clever person would drink from that water. Now I want to say to you something. You and I have to agree at least at least on one thing, and I'm sure you will. On this part, I'm sure you will. You have doubts that the Torah is divine? Fine. You have doubts if they're all Torah? Fine. You have doubts about the age of the world? Fine. It's all of that, no problem. One thing you have to agree with me, that there is at least 1% chance from 100% that the Torah is from God.

You say yourself, I don't know, maybe it is, maybe it's not. Prove to me, I'm not sure, I can prove otherwise, I don't know, maybe you're right. You say it cannot be proven, fine.

But you have to agree that there's at least 1% chance that the Torah is divine. Based on that formula, if the Torah has 1% chance to be divine according to your opinion— according to me, I know 100% it's divine— but according to you and many other skeptics, they have to agree to give 1% for the doubt. You cannot swear on your life or all the Sefer Torah and swear on your children's life that the Torah is for sure not from God. You're not going to take that risk. Maybe it is.

There is a chance.

Based on that little chance in your mind right now, and I'm sure you have that chance, you owe it to yourself after 50 or 60 years of your life that you lived against the law of the instruction to go full force, to not to leave the room. To sit with the world experts and to come to me back with proof that the Torah is not divine. As long as you did not do it, you must keep all the laws of the Torah for the 1% chance that God did command you to do it.

Why? Because if that 1% will turn into truth, you are destroyed for eternity.

And I don't want to even talk about the suffering that you're subject to if you continue to live your lifestyle. And for that 1% chance that I'm right, you must sit as a clever human being and don't leave the room.

Not care about business and movies and vacation and gondi and none of the things.

You only have to sit and say, I must prove 100% that there is— the book is not from God. Once I do it, I can go back to drive on Shabbat, to smoke, to eat pork, whatever you want to do. But as long as you have that 1% chance, you cannot take the risk. Nobody— if a water—

for to die, person one, big deal, he died. How many years we live here? I'm talking eternity. The 1% chance there's poison in the water you did not drink, for 1% chance Big deal. So you cut your life by 50 years. Meh, you live 20 instead of 70, 80, whatever. We're talking about eternity. There's verses in the Torah, you keep my mitzvot, I will reward you and your children for eternity. It's verse in the Torah. Eternally means forever. You will go against me, I will cut your soul out of the next world and you lose everything.

Do you want to to take that risk.

Rabbi, you and I are going to have to sit many, many times.

I'm not sure.

Thank you very much.

We'll see you again.