Does Porn Addiction Exist? - Debate - NoFap vs The Effortless Method

What makes you, um, think that porn is really an addiction from your own perspective?

Yeah, it's a good question. So I don't like using the word addiction either, but I do, in my own experience, right, before even learning about NoFap and learning about what it does to our brains, I struggle to quit. It's as simple as that. Like, I struggled. Like, it is— it was addictive. I could not stop myself. I remember the first time I realized I had an issue was when someone was like, yo, No Nut November, let's give it a shot. And on day 1, on day 1, I failed. He's like, it's fine, you get a pass, try again. The next day I failed again. And this was the first time that I realized, okay, I have an issue here. And the reason why I wouldn't, the reason why I don't like people saying that porn isn't an addiction even though I don't like the word addiction, is because it encourages men to not take responsibility for their actions. For example, I used to be super, super skinny, and people didn't tell me I was skinny, or I knew that I was skinny and I wanted to get better. So what did I do? I took responsibility and I started hitting the gym. I started improving myself, getting in day in, day out, and now I'm jacked, all right? I took responsibility. And the thing is, with telling people that porn isn't an addiction, it's sort of like telling me like, hey, it's okay, you're not skinny. But I knew that I wanted to do better. It's okay, you can think I'm not skinny, I still want to do better. So people can say porn isn't an addiction, but I'm still going to take that responsibility to do my best to quit. And I just feel like with this, this new trending thing of people saying that porn isn't an addiction, it's encouraging men to not take that same responsibility I took to get Jack, right? Does that make sense?

Yeah, that, that makes sense. I, I get your perspective. So let me just, um, you know, share mine in a sense that when we say that porn is not an addiction, it's not to say that, you know, just watch porn. Instead, when we say it's not an addiction, what really comes in is the concept of free will. And what we, what we mean by that is that because we have free will as human beings, that means we can always choose. We're not forced to do anything. And that's what most of the time what people mean by addiction is. They're kind of forced to do that thing. They're just like pushed towards it. It's like they're getting pulled by porn towards, um, you know, watching it basically. And instead we just say, you know what, porn is not an addiction. It's simply a preference that you have based on the value that you see in it. So once you debunk the value that you see in porn, whether it be stress relief, whether that be pleasure, without— whether that be sexual relief, and you debunk those things and you realize that porn actually gives you nothing, you just realize that you were watching porn because of the perceived value and not because you were forced to watch porn, right? Because when people talk about addiction, they most of the time talk about like, oh, I'm addicted because I cannot control myself, I'm addicted because I struggle. But the reality is, internally they want to watch porn because of the perceived value, but people tell them to not watch porn. So, you know, if we go back to the No November, the way that I will perceive your experience is that, you know, obviously the same happened to me, but how I perceive it is that, okay, you got told to do No November, but internally you didn't really want it to because you wanted the pleasure from porn, right? You probably wanted the pleasure from like busting a nut. And that's what people are, you know, going towards. And that's what makes them want to watch porn. And then when they get told, oh, don't watch porn, and then they watch porn, then they feel like a failure. But the reality is they didn't want to really do it, if that makes sense.

Yeah, I mean, what do you mean by they didn't really want to do it and this whole perceived value? Because I get that quitting porn, you gain so much and you lose nothing. But what do you mean? Like, can you explain that further?

So imagine that you like doing something. Let's say that you love playing a specific sport. Let's say you love playing basketball, and I tell you, stop playing basketball because it's bad for you. Now, you're not really gonna see the point in just stopping to play basketball because you love playing basketball. You see so much value, you see pleasure, you see friends, things of that nature. So you're just going to continue on playing basketball, right? It's not even a question of failing or, or succeeding. It's just a question of you want to do what you want to do. So the same exact thing happens with porn in a sense that we get told to not watch porn. And because of that, once we decide to watch porn, we get told that, you know, you should feel ashamed, you should feel like you're a failure, which I kind of understand from a morality standpoint. But the reality is people want to watch porn. And, you know, I don't like saying this, that people want to watch porn, but it's because of the value that we perceive in it. You know, we think, oh my God, I watch porn, it's going to give me that stress relief. It's going to give me so much pleasure, man. I'm going to feel so much dopamine. Um, it's gonna relieve my, my sexual needs. Um, and we just attach so much perceived benefits that we just want to do it internally.

Yeah, man. I think for me, the men that I'm helping, maybe they've had a similar influence, but they've already come to me and following me because they're tired. They're tired of feeling like they're a slave to their mind and their urges and watching porn even though they don't want to. So I think it might start off like I started off wanting to watch porn. I was 13, I didn't know any better. I just stumbled upon a XXX ad and I tried to click on the X button and I end up on a porn site. And now every night I'm watching porn and it's just escalating more and more. But that was when I was 13 and no one was around saying, hey, don't watch porn, bro. Yeah, so, so come when my friend said, hey, let's try this No Nut November challenge, and I realized that I couldn't stop watching porn. Now maybe, okay, I'm starting to feel a bit bad because hold on, I've never had issues, I've never done drugs, I've never been addicted to alcohol, never been addicted to weed. Why can't I stop watching porn? Like, what's going on here? So even though I wanted to watch porn in the past, there came a point in my life where, hey, I'm, I'm a man now. I want to achieve things in life, and I want to stop watching porn because it's taking my time. It's making me feel guilt and shame, and the fact that I can't control myself is worrying to me. It's scary. I've never had any issues with addiction, so I decided, hey, I'm gonna quit porn. And I made that decision consciously, like, ignore the addiction and all that. I just wanted to have control over my life again. So I decided, hey, I'm gonna quit porn. And it was tough, it was tough. And then while I'm in recovery, if I stumble across someone saying, hey, porn isn't an addiction, it's gonna fuck me up in a way. Because I used to be, say, 14 days clean, and people would be like, yo, why are you trying to quit porn, bro? And it would start to mess with my mind. Just that alone would mess with my mind, and I would relapse. So just, that's my beef with people saying that porn isn't an addiction. I don't like the word addiction, but if there's a problem in your life and we want to get it solved, let's get it solved. Let's take responsibility and let's get it out of our lives so we can move on. I don't know, what do you think about that?

Yeah, I mean, you know, I agree to a certain extent. It's just the, the thing, um, which I might not agree with is that at the end of the day, um, you know, when we— if you look at for example, our quote-unquote NoFap journey. When we went into the NoFap journey, uh, when we first tried to quit, right, like, it's not like in a sense we didn't get nothing out of porn, because we don't literally— we don't do any behaviors without any reason. We don't— I don't, uh, for example, um, I don't know, anything. I, I don't go for a walk if I don't see the point of in taking a walk, right? So behaviors are very simple to understand. Now the thing is, when there's things such as urges, which for me is very flawed because an urge implies that you have no control over it, but the reality is an urge most of the time is just simply a want. And what they want is the emotion associated with perceived benefits. So that means that you desire something, you want something because of the reward you're gonna get from it, right? And that's the same exact thing with dopamine. Dopamine is the anticipation to get a specific reward. So it's basically motivating you towards getting a specific reward, whether that be stress relief, whether that be pleasure. That's why we watch porn when we feel down and not when we feel happy, right? So, you know, out of what you said, I think overall, like, yes, I understand that, you know, if we think that porn is not an addiction, then, you know, it's gonna be hard for you to stop. But the reality is when we say that porn is not an addiction, it just implies that, you have control over it. And that's the biggest, like, for me, the biggest mindset shift that I did with my students that helped them, like, literally become free very, very, very fast. But, um, you know, if there's one thing we can compare, it's like video games and porn, right? People— I used to play video games like 16 hours a day sometimes for multiple years. And the moment that I decided to, you know what, I don't want to play video games anymore, I just want to, you know, go and live my life and just basically play video games in real life. And I saw more benefits in doing so. I just stopped. I literally stopped overnight, right? And why does it not happen the same thing with porn? It's simply because there's so much limiting beliefs. I mean, so much, so many limiting beliefs around porn that makes it hard. We think, oh, but porn is linked to reproduction. So that means that we always want to reproduce. Or we think, oh, I'm addicted. So it means that I'm gonna do it even though I don't want to. Or we think, oh, porn is a sign that we have a lot of testosterone and libido. So it just becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and that makes it almost impossible to quit. So, you know, because if you look at video games and porn, there's not much of a difference. Both of them are a screen with pixels. Both of them quote unquote contain dopamine. Both of them are just like basically, you know, even in video games there's sexuality, right? And in video games, there's also this tribe kind of like, um, you know, like the, the, when you, you're out with like other people, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You have like this tribal effect, right? Um, that people literally crave nowadays. And you have all of these quote-unquote things that will make video games almost more addictive than porn, but yet we quit video games like extremely fast. But for porn, it's, it's not the same, right? So that's where like I don't agree with, you know, the word addiction.

Yeah, no, I understand what you're doing in terms of helping men get rid of their limiting beliefs. I think you had a post a while back that said if someone said next time you watch porn you die, you would never watch porn again. Something like that, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was, uh, it was, uh, if you know, there's another one that's better. It's like if you get $1 million right now but you don't— you cannot watch porn for another second of your life, even if you're watching porn like 10 times a day, right? And I tell you, okay, you're gonna get $1 million or $10 million or whatever, it's gonna be easy. Like, it's not gonna be a struggle of like, oh no, I did not mean to watch porn and just watch porn, so I lost the $10 million. No, it's just like you leave porn, you know? Yeah.

So I think our methods are the same in that way, in which I, instead of about million dollars, I help them find the ultimate why, which is like their purpose in life, so that it doesn't make sense for them to watch porn anymore. For example, with me, I decided to quit porn so I could be financially free, so I could travel the world, retire my mom, make sure she lives good while she's still here, and overall just live a life, a fulfilling life with memories instead of regrets. And that was my million dollars, you know, that's what— that is worth the world to me. So Yeah, that is how I got into the right state of mind of, hey, there's no more value in porn. It doesn't make sense for me to watch people have sex. I just feel like, um, you know, the, the way that— I don't know what your model is called, the Freedom Model or whatever, but, um, I feel like saying porn isn't an addiction, I just feel like that is, uh, it's a very bold claim, all right, that can mess people up. But of course it also helps a lot of people. Do, do your, do your people like quit overnight? Like, how does it work? You just get rid of the limiting beliefs.

Yeah, I mean, uh, I've helped multiple people that have quit overnight. It doesn't mean it happens to literally everyone, um, that would be like kind of crazy because I cannot control anyone and, you know, it got to come from them. But, um, when they quit overnight, what happens essentially is the realization that it's always a choice. Watching porn is not something that is going to be a battle. Because if you think that watching porn is going to be a battle against your own self, then you can only hurt yourself. Because porn is not a physical battle that you're going to be fighting against. It's, it's all in the mind. So that means that if you understand how the mind works, that for example, you watch porn because of specific reasons, and you can debunk those reasons, then it just becomes a fortress, right? It just becomes a fortress because it's like the same thing you said, like "Oh, I stopped watching porn the moment that, you know, I really found my purpose, my $1 million, you know, I wanted to travel the world, be successful, whatever." It should be that simple. It should be that simple. But, you know, the limiting beliefs really come into play in making us think that, oh, we cannot quit porn. And also that we still see value in porn. Because imagine that I tell you that if you watch porn, it's a sign that you have a lot of testosterone, a lot of hormones. So now you're thinking, oh, let me just go and watch porn because it's going to show me that I have a lot of testosterone and libido. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. So that's what we got to be, uh, I feel like, you know, careful of. But at the end of the day, you know, if you— and I agree with the purpose thing, right? Like, if you— for me, I call it a vision, right? If you have a vision of like, okay, I want to get there in my life, I want to be like this, do that and this, uh, I want to act like this, think like this, feel like this, have this lifestyle, then what happens is it just naturally becomes a lifestyle that you want to pursue, which porn is not going to be a part of, and that you're going to attach way greater, like, value to compared to porn. And that makes it a fortress. But to make it even better, so that people actually quit overnight, is we debunk the value that we see in porn. So they don't even want porn when they feel like the worst they ever felt in their entire lives.

Yeah, 100%, man. I feel like That's at least one thing that we do the same or agree on, man. Yeah, debunking the value. Like, I literally— it must not make sense to watch people have sex. And that's the state of mind I feel like you— we're in, Porn-Free Men are in. Like, why on earth would we go and watch people have sex when we can go to the gym or meet women or, you know, work on our businesses type this? So yeah, man, I guess the other— my other issue with your— I don't know what, what your guys' system is called, but my other issue is that you guys say that it requires no effort at all. Yeah. Which, I mean, I love gymming and going to the gym feels effortless, but that doesn't mean that it requires no effort at all. Right. And I feel like because as humans we want the highest reward for the least amount of effort, I just feel like telling people like, hey, quitting porn requires no effort at all, kind of is going to attract the wrong people, people who just want a quick fix, people who just want a low-effort way to quit porn. I don't know if you've ever experienced people like that. But yeah, what do you, what do you talk about that, man?

So obviously, when I help people, they got to be committed and not committed in a sense of like doing exercises and just like changing their lifestyle, but just in terms of learning new information that can change their perceptions and paradigms about porn, masturbation, different things in life. So like, it's not like no effort in a sense of you're literally gonna do nothing, but more so in the sense of all you need is information. All you need is to change your perception, your paradigms, your beliefs, which is not really something that is tangible, right? It's not like you're gonna tangibly like change your beliefs, right? It's just, it's more so in the mind. So that's why we say it's effortless, because once you change your beliefs, there's not going to be any battle because you realize that, you know, quitting porn was simply a choice that you can make and you used to watch porn for specific reasons. Now that you debunk those reasons, you're not going to feel like you want to watch porn depending on how you debunked it.

Yeah, 100%, man. I like to say if we do nothing, we'll never watch porn again. Like, it is literally, as you said, it's in the mind. It's a mental battle. And it's about building the right mental armor so that we don't go back and we don't put in that effort, take that step to actually watch porn, because it is a choice at the end of the day. So yeah, thanks for clearing that up, man.

I got you.

But it does require effort. That's, that's, that was the thing. What do you mean by some effort? Like, it's your mental effort. Sure, you're not gonna do nothing.

I mean, you want to change, uh, things about yourself. I, I agree, but I don't think it You know, a lot of people have this perspective of like, oh, I need to fight off urges for the rest of your life. But I don't, I don't even believe in urges personally. I just believe it's a want. Like, okay, you want to watch porn, so you, so you, it's, you have an urge. That's it. You know, if you don't want to watch porn, then you're not really going to feel like watching porn. You know, it's, it's black and white in that sense.

That's a cool reframe, man. That's a cool reframe. Yeah. All right, is there any question, any questions you have for me or anything else before we switch, talk about something else?

Uh, you know, I would say, what do you think of like people that say that they watch porn because of trauma, because of, uh, childhood trauma and things of that nature?

Hmm, well, for me, I would guess I started watching porn when I was 13, and my trauma was that, okay, when I was like 10, there was this cute girl at school, right? And my friend, he was like, yo, go talk to this girl, right? So I walk up there nervous, shaking, my heart's beating, my, my heart's pounding, my mind is going at 1,000 kilometers a minute, and I see her I go— I'm not gonna say her name, but I was like, yo, I like you. And I ran away. I ran away so damn fast, bro. So damn fast. Like, I was so nervous I couldn't even stay to hear what she would respond, right? And, um, that caused a lot of trauma for me. Like, I, I've struggled with women basically my whole life until recently, right? So it caused a lot of trauma. And whenever I would be on Instagram and see a cute girl Instead of actually going up to girls and speaking to them, I'll be like, why get a girlfriend? I can just watch porn. So I'll be on Instagram, see an Instagram model, end up on Pornhub just because, hey, why, why get a girlfriend if I can watch porn? And that's how I filled my void, filled my trauma, filled my nervousness around women. And your question was like, what do I think about people who say they're addicted to porn because of trauma? I think that there are reasons why we want porn. Okay, there are reasons why we have the urges or wants to go to porn, and whether it's traumatizing or not, whether you know why or not, there are ways to work through it. Having your million-dollar why so that you choose not to go to porn. Instead, you choose your million-dollar purpose. You choose your life.

Okay, okay, interesting, interesting. Yeah, because I think that you can say quote unquote traumatic event. I just see them as negative or positive events, but events, they need to be interpreted in the mind first before they have an effect on you. So that means that your mind is at the base of everything. If you imagine that the girl you talked to and you ran away, imagine that you believe that it was a good thing, then it wouldn't have any negative effect on you, right?

Yeah.

Of the way that you interpret it. So, um, trauma, you know, because when you look at studies, 40% of people who have an addiction, most of the time to drugs or alcohol, have some form of trauma. Only 40%, right? The other 60% have normal lives, right? They just do it because of specific reasons and not because of deep, um, negative traumatic events, whatever, right? So, um, yeah, it just depends on how people use their trauma. Because sometimes people use the trauma to— as an excuse to feel less shame. Why? Why they would do something like watch porn, right? Like, imagine you just say you watch porn, right? And you take responsibility for— you're like, okay, I watch porn because I decided to, because I want to get pleasure, right? That's one thing. Now, second thing is, imagine you say, okay, I watched porn, but it wasn't my fault because I was addicted because of trauma. Now it's going to be hard to quit because you're blaming it on things that technically don't really have a connection, um, objectively, but more so that you made a connection with, and you use that as an excuse so you feel less shame about it. It's, it's, that's like, that's how I see it.

Yeah, 100%, man. I mean, I was talking to my cousin the other day, and she's like 17, and she's really bad with men. She's, uh, like, yeah, and she's like, ah, my parents were divorced. I'm like, okay, you're just using as an excuse, really. The way I treat life is I see everything as 100% my fault, and that's how I've— instead of being the victim, like, being the— taking responsibility, it's the only way I see to improve. So I— if I'm having bad— if I'm not getting the girl I want to get, or if a girl breaks up with me, it's my fault. What can I do better? If I'm not quitting porn, what can I do better? If I don't have the body I want What can I do better? I'm taking responsibility. So I feel like people should never, never ever blame outside circumstances or events and always just take responsibility.

Exactly, exactly. Uh, you know, if you take responsibility for anything, then you can actually change those things.

It's that simple. Exactly, it's that simple. So what I do is I just say everything's happening for me, man.

Yeah, as well, man. That's a, a good perception paradigm shift that you can have is just like thinking that things are going, um, you know, for— I mean, happening for you. And what that allows you to do is actually like get benefits out of negative situations. And that's powerful. Like, even if it's— maybe even if let's say it wasn't true that, you know, the things are happening for you, you're still like getting benefits, you know, out of that.

So 100%, man, I love that. So let's talk about, um, Some of the worst ways you think there are out there to quit porn, like porn blockers, for example. What do you think of those, man?

I mean, I just think that if you want to do something, then he'll do it, you know. That it's really that simple. Uh, you can put porn blockers. Um, I think people— the reason why people put porn blockers is just they know deep down they'll just get over the porn blockers. Right? It's not like— if they're honest with themselves, they'll know that just— they'll just like go and watch porn, um, if they want to. But yeah, I think porn blockers is just useless.

Like, yeah, did you ever use them?

I don't think so. I don't think so.

Yeah, neither did I, man.

Yeah, maybe like deleting social media, but other than that, no.

Yeah, I Didn't even touch them. I didn't even think of them. I just knew, like, as easy as it is to turn them on, yeah, I can just turn them off, man. So I never did that. Um, what about— what were some of the mistakes you made on your journey to quitting porn?

Um, I would say mainly just, um, man, that's, that's a very good question. I would say just change, trying to just like Quit porn by, by using motivation. And that's, it's very shallow, but like just trying to like watch videos about why you should quit porn. Like, that's good, you know, if you link more benefits to quitting porn, but more so about like, you know, oh, just be disciplined, just, just, just use willpower. Like, okay, that's cool, but you know, if you genuinely don't want to watch porn, then you're not gonna need discipline or willpower, right? So that's how I perceive it. What about you? What do you think?

Yeah, I think definitely relying on willpower is a big one, but for me it would just have to be giving up. Like, I would try quit for a few days, and as soon as I relapsed, I would go into a binge. I would stop trying to quit porn. I'd be like, ah, one more video, one more video. Yeah, one more video. And then that cycle would just go on until one day I was just like, okay, I'm done saying that porn helps me sleep. I'm done saying one more video. I'm done. I've learned from all of these mistakes. I'm not gonna give up. And I didn't even know I was gonna quit porn, but next thing I knew, I was 30 days clean, 60 days clean, and now I'm 3 years porn-free. And I'm so grateful. I think one of the other things that used to get me a lot was just telling people, bro. I'll be like, hey, I'm 30 days porn-free. And telling people, I would expect them to celebrate the win with me, but they would be like, what are you doing that, bro? Like, like, why are you doing that? And it would get in my head, bro. It would literally get in my head, and then I would relapse. But One day I actually told someone who was also on this NoFap journey of self-improvement, and he was like, wow, I'm proud of you. And that was the first time I heard that. So having him tell me he's proud of me, I don't know what it did, man, but his support and his accountability, it really changed my life. I don't think I could have done it without him because I was like, nah, I don't want to let him down. And he really just motivated me.

I know you probably disagree with some points there, but Yeah, yeah, I disagree with accountability in the sense that, um, you know, again, like, the easiest choice to take is just like debunking the value of porn, so you don't even want to watch it. Because like, imagine that, um, you've been eating hamburgers all of your life, and hamburgers, you have like so much— you give it so much personal meaning that it's like, that it's like the best thing in the world for you, and that it's gonna, you know, cure all of your negative emotions when you feel down, then it's like I can have accountability for that. But the moment that I kind of feel down and I know the hamburger will be like a cure to this, to, to the problem, then it's like I'm gonna want to do it. Like, I want to do it, you know. But rather, if I just debunk why the hamburger is like just an hamburger and, you know, there's nothing special about it, it's not going to give me all of the benefits I'm thinking of, then it's like there's no such thing as accountability because I can just like, you know quit like this, you know?

Yeah, that's, that's very powerful. Um, for me, I just feel like having the accountability partner helped me to debunk the limiting beliefs. It was like, okay, I might want to watch porn. Yeah, but one piece of the million-dollar why was Okay, I don't want to let him down. And then, okay, I want to quit porn so I can travel, retire my mom, do all these things. And okay, and it helped me stop wanting to go to porn. So that's why I feel like trying to quit porn alone, I feel like it's a mistake. I don't know what you think about that, man.

I, I think it's possible. Uh, I've seen a lot of people that I know personally, like friends for example, that the moment they decided to stop watching porn, the same way that the moment I decided to stop playing video games, they just left it and they just left it behind. And most of the time, you know, I asked them, you know, how did you do it? And you just said like, they didn't really see themselves as addicted. Or they said that for them was just like, they don't want to do it anymore. That's it. It was really that simple. And then have the limiting beliefs because they were not like, you know, on the NoFap watching videos. So Yeah, I mean, I think, uh, it just depends also on the individual and the way they perceive porn. Like, the way that you're going to determine, like, literally your ability to quit porn. It's really— that's—

yeah, now that makes sense to me, because if someone's not watching NoFap videos or someone's not following us on Instagram or Twitter, then they probably they probably, I want to say, don't have as big of— they don't perceive their problem as big, right? Maybe they don't have a big porn problem. So it might be easier for them to quit. I don't know. Maybe they watch it less. I just know for me, I was watching porn every night and a lot of people can relate to that. So I'm trying to help those people because it might be more difficult for them to quit porn alone. Does that make sense?

Oh yeah, no, of course. But I'm not saying that, you know, I'm saying that our help can like really help people because at the end of the day, we're giving them, um, basically the blueprint from people that actually, you know, quit porn like us to become free. Uh, it's just that, you know, we most of the time we cannot see the people that actually quit porn because once they quit porn, they're not like under the videos talking about like how they quit porn. They just moved on, right? They just moved on. And it's the same thing with drugs too, right? If you look at drugs, 97, I think it's 97% of people that had a problem with cocaine before resolved their substance abuse, right? So it's really high, but most of the time we don't really see it because if you stop doing something, then you're not gonna be a part of that thing anymore.

100%, man, 100%. I'm checking the chat for any questions, guys. If you have any questions, please put them in the chat. I see we have like 200 viewers. Thank you for tuning in, sir. It's my first time live streaming on X. I don't even know how to check the chat, but, um, I will see your messages. I will see your messages.

I don't know as well how to check the—

no, I don't think anyone's put anything in the chat.

Okay, yeah, but yeah, what do you, what do you think of like, um, trying to just like quit porn by, by trying to like live a life with less problems, if that makes sense?

When you say live a life with less problems, do you mean like keeping yourself busy? What do you mean by that?

Yeah, for example, keeping yourself busy. That's a, that's a good one.

I honestly do not encourage people to keep themselves busy. I actually think that having urges and wants to go to porn are a good thing. Because every time you can overcome that want, you get stronger. Like, I'd be a lot more confident in myself if it's been 30 days and I've had to overcome 30 urges, because I know, okay, next time an urge comes, I'm probably gonna beat it. I'm getting stronger, I'm getting better at overcoming them. Whereas if I've been keeping myself busy, I've been on holiday, I've been distracting myself, um, when an urge comes, I might not be well-equipped mentally to overcome that urge.

Okay, okay.

But how about you?

No, I mean, I have a question, like, based on what you said. Like, um, like, how would you get stronger from not doing something that you wanted? Like, that's what I'm kind of confused on. Like, let's say that, for example, I want to drink water but I deny myself water. Like, why would I get stronger?

Well, because Porn and water are different things. Like, we kind of need water to survive, whereas porn is more of a— it's more of a luxury, if I can even call it that, because we both know it's not a luxury. But, um, it's like, if I— let's say when I, when I started gymming, when I started going to the gym, I gave up after about 2-3 months because, uh, it was that. But then in 2020 I was like, you know what, I'm going to be consistent now. And there were days where I didn't want to go to gym, but I went anyway. And there were many of these days. After 6 months, a year of going to the gym, even when I don't feel like going to the gym, I'm going to the gym. These days I wake up in the gym and I'm like, okay, what am I training today? What's available? I don't even know why I'm here. So I feel like in terms of quitting porn, in the beginning when you can beat those urges, even when you don't feel like beating them, and you can beat those urges and those strong, strong wants, any urge that comes, any want that comes after that, even if it's not as strong as the one you had before, you're going to be better equipped mentally to overcome it. Because it's like, I've been beating my urges, why am I gonna succumb to this want even though it's not as big?

Ah, okay, so it's from the paradigm of urges. I see, I see what you Because like my perspective, right, based on what you said, like, because the gym, it's something you, let's say you don't want to do based on your situation. Like let's say you don't want to go to the gym because it feels painful, for example. But porn is like something that you want because of specific reasons, right? So it's like both separate, but in a sense of like urges, the way I see urges is not like a biological thing that's gonna force you to watch porn. Because there's no such thing as genes or whatever. There's no such thing as your biochemistry forcing you to go on a screen and watch a video, right? It's more so like an acquired taste of like, okay, this is not something that you're going to naturally gravitate towards, but rather something that you learn to like and you attach personal meaning and personal benefits to it, right? So an urge, I don't see it as like you have an urge popping out of nowhere and then it gets strong. I just see it as like, okay, you want to watch porn for specific reasons, and you know, as long as you see those reasons, you'll always want, you always have to conquer the urge. So yeah, I mean, what do you think?

I think it comes down to you see urges as a want. Yeah. And I see urges as like discomfort. So the way I see it, the more you can overcome discomfort, the better.

What do you mean by the discomfort?

Like, um, so discomfort, like going to the gym when you don't feel like going to the gym can be just like uncomfortable, or having cold showers can be uncomfortable at first, but after a while and you see the benefits of going to the gym and you see the benefits of having cold showers, like I love having cold showers because it makes me make better decisions, make my decisions quicker in terms of approaching girls. It's like 3, 2, 1, get in the cold shower. 3, 2, 1, yeah, go approach that girl. So I see more benefits of having cold showers and going to the gym than not going to the gym.

Yep.

And having cold showers. So it's like I became comfortable uncomfortable. And when we can become comfortable with having urges, pretty soon those urges are not even going to be existent because they're like, why would I even go back? Doesn't make sense.

But why would an urge be like uncomfortable? That's why I don't really understand in that sense, from your perspective.

Um, an urge, it's like, it's like energy. It's this energy that's this side of your mind. Okay, so from a scientific standpoint, it's— there's cognitive dissonance, which is where it's like, do I watch porn or do I not watch porn. And it's this tug of war in our mind, and that can be uncomfortable. So it's about, no, I'm not gonna take a peek. No, I'm not gonna do this one more time. I'm done. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, I see. So, so from my, from my perspective, like, let's say that, for example, you have two voices in your head. One says to watch porn, one says to not watch porn. The way I see it is like, you want to watch porn internally for specific reasons, like I mentioned. So it's like you want, right? That's the voice that you're the one that wants. Now the other voice is more so you trying to reason based on external judgment and external factors that you shouldn't watch porn. So that means, for example, if I watch porn, people say that you should feel ashamed of it, so let me not watch it, right? But at the same time, you're like, I want to watch it because I feel stressed right now, and I know that if I watch porn, it's going to relieve my stress. So it's like this tug of war is like, it's not like in a sense, you know, a devil fighting like an angel. It's more so you are trying to reason if you should watch porn or not.