EP 78: Who Is This Guy? (And Why Does He Spell 'Owen' Like That?)

This is weird, this. I've never had so many cameras on me.

He's lying.

Other than your POV cam, that's the only one, though. Outtake number one. Cool. This was a terrible idea.

No, no, I was just waiting to see if anyone noticed that you weren't Jake.

I'm a little bit taller.

Quite significantly taller.

Less handsome, less tattoos. Probably a bigger cock.

Some tattoos, though, as in you're a bigger cock or you have a bigger cock?

Both.

Oh, cock on cock.

Hey, look, it's my turn to give him some shit, especially as he's not present.

Yeah, so we've fucking snuck in. He's otherwise engaged. We've shifted him up, we've got a fresh floor. I don't even know if you can see the fucking floor, but it's now black and rubberized and. Very nice, Susie. Deal. Billiard thing here. Fresh floor.

Aren't you meant to say poppy ping?

Yeah, Poppy ping the floor. You could literally ping things off it because it's rubberized. I don't know whether you could drop a. Could you drop an egg on it and it would bounce?

Should we find out?

Yeah, we should fig fog. Not clean it up if we do

get one of the dogs in.

Yeah. All right, then. This is Owain. So I don't know if you've listened to the last episode of our podcast, but we actually asked how we. How we pronounced your name.

I haven't listened to it yet.

I don't know if it's even listenable. It's released tonight. All right, so you won't have listened to that yet, but so long as

you listen, guys would have.

They might have.

Oh, sorry.

So long as you listen in order. Because some people might get excited by the fact that you're on the podcast and go, ah, fuck it.

Oh, yeah.

Straight into oying.

Yeah.

So we asked how you pronounced his name as he spells it. Strangely, it turns out that he says it how it's not supposed to be said. You say Owen, I say Owen.

Yeah.

And it's supposed to be Owain.

Yeah. But I'm not really Welsh, I'm just fake. But I'm also Irish and English. It's all a bit weird, really. I normally just tell people that my mum had really bad dyslexia, to be honest.

Just added some vowels in there unnecessarily. Yeah, fair enough. All right, then. So we might as well find out who the fuck you are. Who the fuck is that guy? Go on, then, give me. Who are you and what do you do here? Currently. And then I'm gonna ask you some more questions.

So my name's Owain Owen. Whatever way you want to say it.

Owain.

I've been here since probably mid summer last year. Last year? Yeah. That was a strange thing to say, wasn't it?

No, it's just clarification. Just clarification.

I was a. I was a client before I became a dog trainer at the YCA and then kind of made the transition and now I do a 50, 50 role here where I do 50 dog training. Like hands on tools and stuff.

Figurative and literal.

Yeah, exactly, yeah. And then 50% more consult, assessment based.

Yeah. Okay, cool. And also like an advisor of sales and such and you help out a bit on J Rod's mentorship and what have you done here?

Yeah, I do indeed. Is my previous kind of career path was sales and marketing in the corporate sphere, as it were. So made the transition here and hence why I do more consults and assessment base. It's just people related and talking to people. And then in regards to Jacob's mentorship, obviously helping aspiring dog trainers or kind of scaling dog training businesses improve their sales processes and kind of refining that to make it kind of the client lifecycle a bit easier.

Because you can't help dogs without cash.

Exactly.

Essentially.

Yeah.

I had to learn that the hard way. I was always banking on winning the lottery. Never did. So if I can just win the lottery and open like a rescue kennels, I'll be set. But apparently the odds of you winning the lottery aren't great. But the odds of you having a bit of a dig at work, making some cash, far. Great. Apparently.

Does it work so far?

Yeah. Good. But I still, I'm just accumulating dogs. I don't know.

Yeah. That probably subtracts from the cash a bit.

Yeah. All right then. So how did you. So you, you mentioned already in your little journey there that you started as a TWI client.

Yeah.

Why don't you tell people, like, let's hear about the. The character. Yeah. And then like how you actually found us, because obviously people find us through different avenues.

Yeah, of course. So I've got a Rottweiler. Anyone that probably is a boot camp.

Or does he weigh off?

I was informed incorrectly. Okay.

Was it me?

We can't speak about that. She might.

Owen used to walk around the place going, listen, those people, I've got the biggest dog here, 65 kilos, comfortably 66 if he's hydrated. And then it turns out when we put him on the scales, he Was way off.

Yeah, a little bit. But it wasn't mead.

No, no. But, you know, surely you had your suspicions.

Well, I had my suspicions after the very large dog was weighed and only weighed 66 kilos.

Yeah. So we had a dog on boot camp and he's a behemoth.

Yeah.

So the lady was curious to weigh him. So we got the scale out. It took a while. It was an interesting process and quite interesting to see actually learning things every day.

There's even more cameras now.

I know. Pabs, you couldn't stand there with your iPhone, like pointing at us. You can just stand there. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. It feels more like an odd number. You see, four is weird. Thank you. Gotta be even. Yeah. So you got the world's biggest dog.

I've got the world's biggest rod. And anyone who's who's been to a boot camp or maybe been on TWI for a little while has probably heard me talk about him, as I like to refer to him. He's the love of my life. Very much so. But for a period of time he definitely wasn't. He was probably the bane of my life.

I don't know if I've ever talked to you at length about the reasons why you did it, but. Yeah, okay, go on.

But, yeah, so I got Thor as a puppy. Didn't know what I know now, and realized that I critically, for lack of a better term, fucked it.

Yeah. Okay.

With his socialization and whatever else. And realize now that he was quite a windy puppy that I refer to.

By windy we mean possibly an underlying predisposition to being nervy.

Yeah. And I realize that now from the fact that when we used to go to those swap around puppy classes for socialization, that he used to be the one that would hide in the climbing frame and wait until the class ended, essentially.

And then like creep up. Yeah.

And then be like, is everybody gone yet? Which at the time I just thought, oh, it's okay. Took a bit of a hard line to it and then realized that probably should have done something about that, but never mind. Yeah. So. But he was a good puppy, as most people probably say that do. TWI or boot camps and otherwise hit probably eight months and then started classic. Yeah. Adolescence hit and everything really did go to. We were on holiday in Wales, so it went on a staycation to the homeland of my first name.

It's gonna cut me. What a whopper. All right, keep going. We'll have it.

And I remember we were about to cross a road and we're in Wales, where you bre and beacons.

All right, so not too close to Cardiff, like.

Nah. Yeah. About to cross a road and this Vizsla came up behind us. And he'd never had a problem with dogs. But it was a Vizsla. Yeah, it was a Vizsla. But he'd grown up with Vizslas.

Yeah, yeah, it was a Vizsla.

Anyway, the Vizsla sniffed his butt. He did not like it. He went full on lunging, growling, snarling. It was the first time I'd actually seen him do it, or at least kind of seen the sign.

Real, was it a bit of a sight, like, to see him go. Yeah, usually.

And I just wasn't ready for it. And he was like, typically on the big harness and everything else.

Yeah, it couldn't be a small harness. He's 65 kilos. To be fair.

He's a bit of a chubster at the time.

Yeah.

And, yeah, it took a little while to hold him back and even once the dog had gone, he was still going a bit apeshit, to be fair.

Fair was he? Yeah. Held a grudge in that.

Yeah, he really wanted to get back at that dog. Apparently he doesn't like his ass being sniffed, but then again, neither do I, so.

And as a Vizsler, it was vis. So at that point you were maybe just like. It could have just been. It was a Vizsler. Right.

Yeah. At that point I was like, oh, it could have just been a one off. But then it started to become quite frequent.

Yeah, okay.

Most dogs. And he had that. And he still kind of has it a little bit now, but it sometimes obviously comes in handy for sessions. But a very hard, rotty stare. He likes to stare at things he's skeptical of.

Yeah. Seems stare at you a lot.

Yeah, but he likes me.

It's kind of unsure, though. But yeah, cool. So what did you do? I got a dog that's reacting to eight out of 10 dogs. He's massive. He's 65 kilos.

Yeah.

I'm on a harness. What are we doing? Where do we go? What do we do?

I did what any smart person would do and contacted the breeder.

Yeah, nice. Fair enough.

Yeah, yeah.

But you said that with cynicism, but I don't think it's a bad call.

No, it wasn't necessarily a bad call.

His dogs.

I'd met his dogs. His dogs were pretty good from what I'd seen anyway, in the meetings and greetings that I'd had with them. But his recommendations Were very much like Keeler method, like yank and crank style.

Yeah.

Basically. So recommended that we put him on a. On a slip collar.

All right.

And essentially correct him for hard snailing or reactions.

Okay.

Which if you don't obviously follow a full on process like we do. Not that we obviously use Keela or anything like that, but built a superstition essentially with other dogs.

Oh, okay.

I believe anyway. Because it seemed to make his reactivity worse because we were just correcting without teaching.

I would term that slightly differently. So, like, it's not a superstition, is it? Because if we crank a dog. Not that we would. Every time the dog sees the dog, it's not a superstition. If we. If he was developing a superstition of something near the dog at that point, that to me that would be more of a superstition. Do you know what I mean? Because it's actually not superstitious, is it? Every time you see a dog, you get cranked, you're actually right. So I don't think that's good.

Yeah, no, I get what you mean. No, no, I get what you mean now. Yeah. But essentially did that discontinued that, I say quite quickly. Probably did that for maybe term about four weeks. Okay. Because it made the issue a lot worse. The. The reactions intensified and became more frequent again. Thresholds became a lot smaller.

What are we talking there then?

What are we talking there? Probably couldn't be within 10 meters of another dog without.

Yeah, that's when it starts to get hard, isn't it? Yeah.

You can't go anywhere.

Yeah. Like you'll speak to people whose threshold distance is like, all right, my dog can't be sniffed by another dog. You can get through most of life with that. But once you start pushing out to 10 meters on the side of the road, it starts to really fucking grind people. I don't know how people do that. I. Although I did it, I don't know how. I think I only did it because I had so much fucking time on my hands.

But yeah.

Nothing else to do. But yeah. Okay, go on.

So walks became obviously very unenjoyable. It meant that I was essentially the only person that was able to walk. Walk him. Because I was the only person that could hold the biggest Rottweiler in the world.

Exactly. Because you must be at least 130. See you back on the gym. Can we ping it? Is your session with your back on the Instagram? If it is, Poppy, ping. If it is, it's a good. It's fucking good, mate. You could see how I could hold back it. But obviously other people without backs like that could maybe not hold the world's biggest rottweiler back. So it's almost as bad as the

story that Jacob put up last night. He goes, you want a picture of the gram? I was like, oh, yeah, go on then. Nah, not really. Don't take a picture of me. He's like, nah, picture. He goes, I'm gonna rinse you now. Even his mentee started taking the piss.

He told me you asked, Mark, picture you. He told me you said you requested a picture.

I did not request the picture. He asked.

He doesn't lie, mate.

He.

I don't know. Over time he's actually lied.

I can name a few

anyway, where we at. But yeah, we've made. We've made him worse.

But we've made him worse through the use of a slip collar. And also really desensitized him to one as well.

Incorrect use of a slip collar.

Yeah. Incorrect use of a slip collar.

Yeah. Okay.

Very much so. Then did what any really smart person would do.

Okay.

And contacted the nearest trainer to us, who was positive only.

Cool.

Massively so. And credit where credit's due. And I know you don't like me saying this. Not that you don't like me saying this. You don't necessarily believe it to a degree.

Well, you're gonna tell me what it is. We've discussed it before. Have we?

Um, but the method, like. Because the methods in which they were using were just typical, like redirect games, but really without the use of much lead pressure and using like higher value treats.

Yeah.

So that did build his confidence a bit, I believe. Anyway.

How did it build his confidence?

Is in confidence around other dogs.

Yeah, I know, but what's not necessarily.

Sorry, I'm probably specific, using the wrong terminology. Built his value in us.

Yeah.

Okay, so it's not necessarily confidence, but it was just an easy term to use.

Yep. Fine.

But it made him react less, essentially, is what I'm trying to say.

Fine. And that's the goal, right?

Yeah, 100%. But again, very much management based. Heavy management based.

Yep.

Where we could walk, where we'd go. Couldn't get him off the leash. His recall wasn't.

We use a mark or anything at that point or are you distracting?

Distracting mostly primarily like you could probably call it like a marker. But they tended to use like this

way sort of stuff.

But then again, like it wasn't really working. It was more luring and bribery than it was.

Yeah.

Actual market charging Food motivation.

Yeah. Got you. Okay. Yeah.

So did that. But wasn't a life for him. Yeah, it wasn't a life for me in terms of, like, being able to take him out and enjoy it. Like, the whole reason I got him and up until eight months could take him anywhere. Like, that's why we went over to Wales for a holiday.

Yeah.

We taking him down to Cornwall on multiple occasions as well, which was really good. Prior to him kind of kicking off everything.

Yep. All right.

Yeah. So kind of went down that route and it just didn't get us to where we wanted to be. And the big kind of turning point for me is we'd made, like, a bit of progress in regards to, like, shortening down his threshold distance, being able to be around dogs a little bit more. Reactions were probably becoming less frequent, but I think that was mainly down to our management.

Yeah.

And the way we were going about.

Which is fine.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

As long as it doesn't affect the quality of life for me.

Yeah, yeah. The turning point for us really was we were walking down one of the roads close to our house. He was on a lead again, as I mentioned, he'd kind of been quite good for a period of time. And there was a gentleman smoking a doobie having his evening doobie. Used to see him on that kind of road quite a bit.

Fair enough.

With his bulldog who. Bit of a whopper.

Yeah. Kind of English bulldog.

Yeah, English bulldog. Big fat thing. A bit. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, it doesn't matter was it was kind of on the end of the lead staring Thor out. And I. I kind of said at the time, should we probably like, dart off up that road there and potentially avoid the. The Head on pass?

Yeah.

And she was like, nah, like, it'll be fine. We've had such a good time recently.

Fair enough.

And I was like, yeah, okay, fair enough. As long as you feel comfortable.

Some point you've got to test the water, right?

Yeah.

100.

So we. We kind of got level. Thor kind of hunkered down a little bit, gave the. The. The bulldog a pretty hard stare, and we knew exactly what was coming. At which point she darted off up a driveway with him on one of the houses, and I kind of stood at the end of the driveway. The bloke was kind of beelining for us because to explain a little bit more, there was like kind of a road, houses, and then pavement. And the guy was on the pavement, but then started walking towards us. As we were walking on the road. We looked at me like that Anybody

else got no idea what. Sorry. There was a road,

any residential road.

You were somewhere, there's a couple of dogs and there was a guy. Okay, fine.

But we were walking in the road to avoid the other dog or at

least give ourselves some distance. Fair enough.

But he started making a beeline, so she disappeared. I stood at the end of the driveway to kind of say to the bloke, like, do one. Do you mind? Anyway, guy comes up to me and he's like, oh, that's a lovely dog, mate. I was like, yeah, cool. He's not a big fan of dogs. Meanwhile, his bulldog's giving it large ones to hit him who's behind me. And I'm like, yeah, lovely stuff, mate. He's not that good. Like, in terms of friendly with other dogs, especially. Not only like, do you mind clearing off? And he kind of just kept repeating himself. And it ended up to the point where I was like, mate, off.

Yeah, fair enough.

At which point, top advocation. Yeah. But at which point I hear this huge commotion from behind me. Thor's had enough and starts kicking off big time. And she kind of shouts me, like, take the lead. Because he was storming down the driveway towards this other dog and towards the bloke as well. Because obviously the bloke's moving a bit strange because he's high as. And meanwhile, I'm now in high confrontation with this fella.

Yeah, fair enough. Add in some pieces. Yeah.

Like, high intensity situation. Thor comes storming down the drive. I. I managed to catch.

So, Ash, how old am I this time?

Yeah. But he's being currently dragged by him

65 kilos, man. That's four wheel drive getting low. Yeah, exactly. Fair enough.

So I grabbed hold of the lead and kind of obviously just managed to stop him. And he's kicking off. Meanwhile, the guy gets the picture and clears off.

Yeah, fair enough. I suppose you would.

Yeah. And that's got the kind of point where I just thought, like, enough's enough. Like, this isn't working. I don't want him to be like this at all. I don't care if it's one reaction ever so often. I don't want him to be like this. I want him to have a better life.

Yep.

And I'd seen. I'd seen YCA via the Instagram and obviously paid attention.

What do you think about us at that point when you're in the Force Read camp?

I didn't necessarily have a problem with tools, all right. Or the use of balance training. I kind of went from one so

you weren't hating on us? No. You would form a trainer going, oh, those guys on Instagram. That Jacob guy, that guy. He recommended me color to a guy once. That guy? Yeah. All right, fine. So, you know, no, like, no qualms?

No, I didn't have any bad perceptions or anything like that. I'm. I'm pretty open to anything.

Yeah, we've heard.

I'm a guy that would try everything at least once.

Yep. Rugby union, isn't it?

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I just thought, like, I'd seen the testimonials, I'd done all the reading, and I just thought, like, time for a change and really try and make this work. So got in touch through the kind of website, booked in a call with Chloe. And I remember I was actually on my way home from a meeting in my previous role, and I had to pull over on the side of the road, and it must have just been you crying. Was I crying?

No, no, no as in, like, I heard you were crying.

Absolutely not.

I'm pretty sure sticks out in my memory, but I was just sobbing. Chloe was just like, this guy. I just had a phone call with him. He was weeping. He had a rotty. Thor, I think it was. I was like, oh, I think I know the guy.

I think she remembers the call mainly because I kind of. I'd been at meetings all day, and I pulled over at this random service station. I'm still like, 45 minutes away from home. I'd want to go home, and I want to see Thor. Ash is doing the call from somewhere else. And I get on the call with Chloe, and it must have been Chloe's last call of the day. And I kind of just like, rushed her towards the end as she was kind of like, well, it kind of costs this much and it's this much investment. I was like, chloe, I don't care. Take my money. Fix my dog. That was kind of how that cost.

Seems fair. Yeah.

It was kind of like just getting. Get this over and done with. But, yeah, it was. It was a good call. It was a pleasant call. And the next thing I know is that we're on a new training program.

Yeah. Nice.

Yeah. And here we are.

Well, we've missed out.

Yeah, I know. What, you want to keep going for,

like, I know, 10 minutes. It's like, no. Okay. Don't laugh. Susie Jordoni, encouragement. I just realized as well, I'm wearing the pair of these shorts, too. Oh, why not? I don't know. Don't know if I need To. But I'm wearing the same. The same shade of underwear. Do you know why, though? Because one of my mates recommended these boxes. They were an Instagram purchase. Actually, step one, if you want to send me any brilliant step one boxes. Incredibly comfortable. And they've lasted a long time as well. And I get some steps in.

Do I get some as well?

If they send us some.

I'm on the episode, so I should.

Yeah. Imagine having like black and yellow ones. That'd be amazing. I'm really upset.

Didn't Jacob get free through dark ones?

I think you did.

Although we don't like through dark. Well, no, actually that's a lot. But Revolution race. Have you got any more trousers?

But if I had black, I'm gonna

make the most of this, like being able.

If I had black ones, this hole would be non noticeable. So if, like, if anyone wants me, send me some black underwear. Not like lacy small. Yeah. Oh, even that. Maybe I'd take that as well.

And Summers, can you send Kirky some underwear?

Yeah, you look proper sexy.

Probably the photographers in today, if they can like fast track the shipment, we can get you all up, get a pump on. Just in lacy black underwear.

Yeah. Nice. I'll do some dips for that.

Nice, man.

I'll even do a calendar and do it for charity.

There are some people out there that would pay good money for that.

Oh, I know, yeah.

Have they asked?

No. Exactly. Anyway, that was almost like an interlude, wasn't it? We should have said like. And we also drink new tonic. Yeah. And fresh. Fresh cold water.

Right now, aren't we, like. He's in promotion.

You are. What do you mean? I just said if I had black underwear instead of purple, they wouldn't be able to notice my hold on my shorts and that.

You mentioned step one first and then I just mentioned three dark race. And then.

Maybe I shouldn't have said the name.

Yeah, maybe you shouldn't.

Maybe I should. A brand of underpants underwear that are available on Instagram. High quality, turns out. Because you never know with Instagram purchases, do you?

Nah.

Pretty wild.

Yeah. I've never really bought much off Instagram.

I bought some. Right. Weird shit off Instagram. Anyway, that's a different story. So go. I think at that point. Because we hadn't been doing the remote program that long when you started doing it.

Sh. Don't say that.

No, we hadn't.

I tell people online we've been running it for a few years.

Oh, but we have now. We have now. Yeah. But when you started it, we hadn't been running it that long. And by, by not that long, I

mean like, I'm not trying to be a liar. You get what I mean?

Not that long. I mean, in this, in the sphere of dog training, it's quite a new concept, right? Yeah. In terms of like reactivity and behavioral stuff. Obviously you can go on anywhere and get loads of videos on how it's a heal your dog or put it in a sit or something. But it did not mean anything like that, particularly in the space too much. So in some respects, quite a brave thing for you to try. It's a bit of a hybrid program. Or did you just feel like, nah, this dude looks like he knows what he's talking about. J Rod's the king more so that. Give me, give me some results less.

J Rod's the king. I'm not going to give him that credit. I'm not.

Back then you might say that. Nah. Now you probably wrestle him jiu jitsu style.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Beat him up.

Yeah.

No, I just, I think like proofs in the pudding, right? I saw, I saw the videos, I saw the testimonials. I'd seen how much freedom and quality of life it given other people. Excuse me, sorry, I need a burp. Excuse me. Cut out, please. That was awful.

Okay, I think that's a first. I think you've had your knob out

for like eight months.

Yeah, but I think that's the first overzealous burp we've had.

It was an accident. I've been drinking any drinks all morning, laying this lovely black floor.

Yeah, fair enough.

Anyway.

Yeah.

But I kind of seen the results. And of course, what gave me confidence was the fact that it was like, of course, like money back guarantee. And I'd also just kind of reached a point where, like, I had that consideration that I think a lot of reactive dog owners have, where it's like, am I the right owner for the dog? Does the dog need a different owner with like a different home or like. Etc.

Interestingly, I've had reactive dogs. I've never thought that I'm like, no, this is obviously I'm the right one. So, yeah, I've never had that, but I have a lot of people on, on assessments.

It's not like I wanted to give him up. I never wanted to give him up. It was just a case of like, is it better for him?

Yeah, yeah, I get that. Which is a nice consideration, I suppose, if you're going to consider doing it for the right reasons at least. Yeah.

So yeah. Signed up and then started the program. Met your lovely face. Started working our way through the, the kind of game plan and the socialization checklist. Got him off lead, which was nice with the use of an equal, nice barbaric shot collar thing that everybody talks about.

Yeah.

Which gave him like off leash freedom, which gave us sort of so much opportunity. Started to re. Socialize him with other dogs. Closed the distance.

Yeah, nice.

And then he became sound.

And then obviously within that we had some funny like training calls. Right.

Yeah, we did, yeah.

So like I confess to occasionally losing my patience just on occasion. No, not often. Very, very rarely. Very rarely. I remember getting stuck into someone on the call because like they needed it to be fair. They needed kind of a blunt shot across the bow. And I just remember seeing you kind of like laughing on the day and thinking, oh, at least he's not taking it too badly. And then I think on a one to one call you mentioned like, I mean, really enjoyed doing the process and it just kind of struck a chord with me a little bit. And then we were kind of looking for new stuff and you just popped into my head like an epiphany because

you're in love with me, aren't you?

Probably, yeah. Why wouldn't I be? You got a 65 kilo rock roller,

you should just be together. No?

Yeah, fair enough. And it was kind of like, it was, it was sensible, wasn't it? Because obviously you've had, you had some skill sets that could help us anyway and then we had some skill sets that could help you into this. Did you use it, everything you thought it could be?

Is it everything I thought it could be? Yeah, it's definitely something.

Is it? From obviously having gone through the process to now delivering the process. What are your thoughts?

There are more people like that guy you ripped into on the call than I thought there were.

Yeah, fair enough. But I suppose from a true believer perspective, obviously you'd done the process, so you already kind of like thought, right, well this shit works. Yeah, exactly. Now you're delivering it.

I think what's also probably, probably different for me maybe compared to a few people I know, there are of course some people like this that come and do the boot camps and the, the TWI program that fall into kind of what I fell into, which was after having experienced the YCA and TWI is I then like started to like kind of just pick up information.

Yeah.

Everywhere. And I didn't necessarily deviate from the plan in terms of when I was on the program with Thor. But I started to, like, see where, like, you made your own methodology, but pick out other methods.

Yeah. And just have a deeper understanding.

Yeah. Start having a deeper understanding and start to, like, culminate my own knowledge. Just because I fell in love with it and had, like, a big passion for it and obviously it given me, like, a better life with my dog.

Yep.

So obviously fell into the trap of, like, I say trap, not a bad trap, but wanting to give other people good lives with their dogs.

Yeah. Nice.

Because I could see people around me struggling either with similar issues or, like, more minor issues, like recall.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I say minor. That's obviously quite important, but you get what I mean.

I do.

Obviously. Now falling into. Now delivering it. It's not so different because I'd already picked up quite a lot of information.

Yeah. And in some of the things I've seen you say to people, it's probably. You can talk from experience of having done the course, which I think's a useful perspective to have. Obviously, I've not. I kind of have done bits and bats it. But you know what? My dogs, like, they're just loose cannons that are nice dogs that wouldn't exactly call.

Minus the cure cannon.

No. But, like, I've never done the process start to finish. So, like, it's probably useful from that perspective if. Have you been able to say, hey, yeah, I got this. Was what I found at this point, et cetera, et cetera. So it's slightly different.

Yeah, it's good. I think what helps is I can especially boot camps, obviously aren't too dissimilar from twi.

No, no, it's a condensed version.

Yeah, exactly. It's like, especially standing in front of a boot camp on a Monday when. Especially when they're a little bit, like, skeptical of the process. Given that Mondays and Tuesdays are quite slow. I can come from it from a perspective of, like, I've done this.

Yeah.

Works. And just trust it so I can talk to them. Like you say about.

Why were you when Jude was here, man, I was elsewhere.

I can't believe you just said her name.

It's all right. She loves it. She does love it. I love Jude. My God, we do love you, Jude.

But Kirky Stars. Nightmares.

Yeah. Not. Yeah, I think I'm still tired from that Tuesday. Yeah. Nice. Okay, fine.

Yeah.

So, like, if you. If you were to articulate to people,

that's going to be difficult.

Yeah, I know. You might. You might have a stroke or something.

Probably, as I said, I might have a panic attack.

Yeah, fair enough. Too much caffeine.

Yeah.

If you were to kind of articulate to people who are maybe like, cynical of online training, go, It works. It was fine.

It works.

It was fine.

It was great. The kind of way I'd articulate it is at the end of the day, it's really the human that needs the training.

Yeah, that's a good point.

It's not the dog. Like.

Yep.

Like, you articulated it really, really well during your talk on the mentorship weekend

when you reference blacked out in that.

Yeah, I think you did too. But it was good.

Okay.

But you referenced our friends over at Freedom Canine, Brody. You did. And you referenced their jumpers. Because on the back of their jumpers was teach humans and train dogs.

Oh, yeah. Okay.

Dogs was the. The bold writing on the back.

Yeah.

And you actually mentioned how it. For us as dog trainers anyway, the preference would actually have teach humans in. In the kind of bold. Big bold.

Right. Yeah. In terms of the actual process. Yeah, yeah. So

it's all well and good seeing a trainer in person, but really you can get all of the same information from that online course. Nobody's given you anything different. They're just there with you in a physical sense.

Yeah.

And that can be nice from a perspective, but really what you need is the context, the information and the feedback which people still get through twi.

Yeah.

Given that you have obviously the calls of which we used to do a lot of. And sit on their chin wagging for a bit and then like the live feedback loop that you get from the live chat. Because the live chat essentially gives you the ability to ask questions every single day.

Yeah.

Whereas, like for me, if I reference my own journey with the positive only trainer that I worked with in person, I might have had a one to one every three weeks.

Yeah.

And then I might go to a group.

Yeah. That's probably the.

Sorry. Twice a month.

Got you.

Which means if I have a question or a concern or he's had a reaction, I want to know how to deal better with that situation. I've got to wait until next Tuesday, next Thursday until I get an answer.

Yeah. Okay.

Feedback.

That's good. That's an interesting point. Yeah.

Whereas with twi, I'm getting feedback day upon day.

Yep.

You even replied to us on Christmas Day at one point as well.

I'm a bit of a boring nerd.

So in terms of people that might be skeptical of online training, if anything, it's better.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or at least if you were doing like in person stuff, you need that contact time. I was thinking about this the other day, and it was like we used to do what we call kickstart days. It's basically like day train. Fuck me. We put some dogs through, like, some training days, but then I think arguably the results were some dogs were great, but the ones that were great were always the ones that. Where the owner had a good relationship. They were just getting a few things technically wrong. The trouble that you get is, and people won't necessarily like to hear it, but the relationship sometimes off and then it's something that you've got to work through. Like, if I work through it for you. Yeah, dog might be great for me, but maybe I give the dog back to you and it's just, well, this is the same. So, like, there's definitely like an element of whether you do, like, the online course or you come and do a boot camp or whatever, you're doing it, but you just got a real good guide in hand. Yeah. Okay. You're not going to make mistakes or you're going to make some mistakes because you are like, it. It doesn't matter, does it? That's how you learn anyway.

But. And it's also like you as the owner of the handlers who got to make the lifestyle change.

Right? Yeah, a lot of people as well. Yeah. That's 100 true. This has got really deep and boring now.

It has a little bit. Let's lighten up a bit.

Yeah. So now you're an accomplished trainer.

Yeah.

I got a lot of respect for how you speak to people, particularly very articulate. It's really weird because for such a dumb, like, you come across like, you're not. It's mad, like. But fake it till you make it. Right.

It's unreal. I've even been getting shit since before I was even an employee. I remember listening to a podcast back in the day and Jacob gave me shit. It was unreal. I was a client. I was literally paying you and I was getting trashed on a podcast.

You're welcome. Nah, but you wouldn't get it if you couldn't take it. Yeah. So accomplished trainer. Really do appreciate the way you speak to people. It's given me a bit more time back to concentrate on some of the things recently. So I think you're doing great, mate. And then is this. I'll be careful how I say this. This the first kind of, like, dog that stayed with us that you've done most of the work with. By most, I mean all.

But, yeah, like, most often it's been like a. An all, like Ollie, Right. Yeah. So it's been the only dog that I've probably had from, like, start to finish. And it's not been cool hands on deck situation. It is cool. Like, you get. You get a fresh dog. And it's like, I remember thinking when I got him, like, this is like having Thor all over again.

Yeah.

And previously that would have stressed me out.

Yeah.

But this time I was like, oh,

yeah, I got this challenge.

Let's fix it.

Yeah. Nice.

And see, like, how quickly I can maybe do it.

Yeah.

As well. Which was really entertaining and cool.

Yeah, nice. Give us an update on the big fella then.

Yeah.

So he came. We can probably ping up a spicy frontal shot of Ollie. There was a few at one point. Yeah, there was a few. And then he's been here for, what, three and a half week?

Yeah, Three weeks. Yeah. He's in week three.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just at the end. Yeah. Okay.

Oh, no. He'll be in week four. Friday.

We're in the fourth.

In the fourth week.

I don't know how to term it. We are. We have commenced the fourth week of training. And obviously you've done, again, a very similar process to what we do on TWI or a boot camp, but obviously in that kind of middle ground of four weeks.

Yeah.

I've met him. I forgot to mention something, actually. I'm really grateful for the work you did with Thor so that I could use him to help Little John. My spicy stuffy. Cause you got to the point where you can remote control him. Not literally remote control him, but, you know, like, when you could leave it and what have you.

Yeah. I've got cues and good commands and it's.

And I think after Little John met him. And also you're the dog 10e. He's definitely better at tolerating meetings of dogs. Whoppers. Yeah. Yeah. Because, like, they are quite a lot and not in terms of, like, dickheads, but, like, Thor's huge. Yeah. Tennessee brings an energy vibe. So from my perspective and Little John's perspective for life in general, like, it's helped him. So I'm pretty grateful of you becoming better. Right. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

It's been a good learning curve.

So pretty.

Thank you. I got two.

Shit. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, less shit.

The worst thing is they're gonna come out.

Yeah. Good. Yeah.

I'm not sure your lads, like, on end.

Can you sing? No, I swear. Susie's face.

But in regards to, like, Ollie. Yeah, He's. He's been the first residog that I've had can, like, consistently, rather than just helping out other trainers like yourself and Alicia. So he's been an interesting project and he's been. He's been really fun. He's a good lad. Very people social.

Yeah.

Cuddle. But did not like other dogs.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, it took a very similar process to TWI in that respect.

You love him. What?

Yeah, man, he's cool.

If Baz turned around and said, you know what, mate, I don't really know if I want him back, would you say, go on, then I'll.

I'd look after him.

Yeah.

I'd foster him in that. But, yeah, I don't. I don't know about shepherds.

Fostering's good, mate.

I know, but you end up with keeping them. It's not really fostering if you keep them. It's called adopting.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah. But I've enjoyed him and he. And he's been fun and we've had a good journey together, I think. And he was definitely. He kind of. He was very cuddly from day dot.

Yeah.

But still very unsure.

Yeah.

Wouldn't really play. And in certain cases, in certain circumstances. But now, like, we're just having a great time, like, going out on walks, seeing other dogs. I've, of course, resocialized him with your past pack and Alicia's pack and some other guys here too, and taking him out on some kind of walks with the boot campers that we've been going on.

Yeah.

Which has been really good. And I'm used him as a stooge as well, which has been quite helpful.

Nice. So now he's like a shining light. Shining beacon.

Yeah, man.

Doggy hope.

And. Yeah. And he even helped. The other day we had an assessment for another shepherd, very similar to Ollie in regards to his dog reactivity, but also, like, reactive to a few other things. And it was really helpful just to literally say to them because they themselves were like, oh. They were saying, we don't know if he's fixable. They were really, really concerned. And I said, do you want to meet another residue that I've got? And I'll show you footage of him from when he first came in.

Oh, nice. Yeah.

I got Ollie out and I got Ollie out with blue.

Yeah.

And I said, look, this is what. They were just chilling next to each other and I showed them videos of when Ollie first came in, which hopefully these guys would have already seen by now. Like, oh, wow. And they were really excited and they were like, yeah, let's definitely do that. So it gave them, like, you say, like a beacon of hope to think that their dog wasn't a lost cause. Hello.

Nice. Yeah. Yeah. That's good, isn't it? Right? Isn't that good?

Yeah.

You okay? Run out things to say? No, no.

Okay.

Never. Even the meeting upstairs yesterday. I'll bring that back. You be like, shut the up.

Yeah. It's dreadful idea having us to do the podcast.

Yeah. All right. And then this week, smallish boot camp with some mentorship people. How you find the mentorship weekend? You stayed for that and you fun.

Yeah, I did. I stuck around. I didn't think I would. No. No offense to you and J Rod, but I didn't think it was going to be my thing.

Kind of hard not to take a bit of offense to that man.

Yeah. But actually, I was here on the Saturday morning because I brought Ollie along to socialization class and wanted to get him around some other dogs and then actually sat in some of the talks and I thought, oh, this is decent. This. And obviously got to mingle with some other dog trainers and scaling organizations or aspiring dog trainers. And that was quite fun, too, just to hear about everybody else's journey and kind of compare and listen to, obviously, J Rod's chat, which was very inspirational from a, like, business perspective. And then got to listen to your talk that. Of course, we talk dogs a lot.

Yeah.

But it was quite good to see it from. What's the right word? But kind of, obviously, the main point of your conversation. I lost my track. I told you, it's a bad idea. I'm starting to fail. But talking about how you would deal with potentially difficult clients.

Yeah.

And how you would approach that sort of situation and how you have in the past and how you've still managed to get results even in those circumstances where maybe the owner's a bit. Bit of a whopper.

Yeah. We had some frank conversations in the past, and in the end, it's down to me thinking, right, okay, no, everyone's never going to like each other.

Yeah.

But for the betterment of the dog, I'm sure we can come to some middle ground.

Pretty much it's about telling people what they need to hear, not what they want to hear. Right.

Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah.

Yeah.

In fact, all the time, isn't it? Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Owen winds my neck in on boot camp. Sometimes they start a little. Yeah.

A little hot.

A little hot on a Monday. Yeah.

Yeah. But, yeah, I think it, like you say, creates A good little banterful relationship.

Yeah. And most people take it really receptively. And then by the end of the week, we're having a good crack and what have you. I still got. Remember getting called a madman in the boot camp last week. Was it last week? Did you get called a mad madman? Yeah. Anna's owners on the. On the Wednesday when I mentioned the pub, it's like, you're a madman. I was like, oh, I know. Yeah. But we're doing it, though.

Yeah, we're doing it.

Yeah. And we did.

It's good sometimes to be a madman, have that ruthless confidence.

Don't know if it was ruthless confidence or just dumb luck. All right, cool. What's next?

Next then, with Ollie? Yeah, yeah. So Ollie's training is kind of been more or less wrapped up.

Cool. What's wrapped up? A little bit ago, wasn't it? But you've just been kind of like

getting him out there now, just building on it, doing, like, as much resocialization as I can, getting him out as much as possible around as many dogs as possible and as very environmental factors as possible as well. And it's more so about, like, making it as easy for Baza.

Yeah, for sure.

As possible.

Yeah. Nice.

In regards to, obviously, next week's handover, but also is the more training I can do now and, like, fine tuning I can do to make things really clean, just the easier it's going to be long term.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. And you're gonna see if you can meet up with some dogs down there.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, that'd be cool.

I've texted him just to ask, like you said the other day, if he's got any mates or family or friends with sociable dogs, you're gonna be all right. And then I can obviously show him what Ollie's like and what cues and markers we've been using.

Yeah.

And just. Yeah. Make that transition into real world with Barry as good as possible.

Yeah, Class. All right. So it's gonna be great, then. Yeah, he's gonna live a jolly old life. How old is he, Ollie?

It's just over two, I believe.

Oh, nice. Hopefully a good decade of.

Yeah, man.

Solid life for him.

Loads of time.

That's nice. Where's he from?

Milton Keynes. Poor lad.

What?

Cause he's not in the north of England.

Well, yeah, but even Milton Keynes, especially

though he ever left the north of England.

I remember doing geography and talking about new towns. Milton Keynes is a new town. Right. Where they basically built it from scratch, effectively made a Shit, all this, man. Can I. I got. Sorry. Milton Keynes. Fuck you, you Milton Keynes. I don't know anybody good for Milton Keynes.

In previous podcasts, you and Jacob started a war with other dog trainers and told them you were going to kick him in. And now you're starting.

No, it's just like, whether we could. It's like if Leeds.

You said you bashed someone.

Did I? Yeah, I definitely said I could and I'll stand by that. Fine. But, like, if Leeds went to war with Milton Keynes, now Leeds is winning all day.

I'm not from Milton Keynes, nor am I from Leeds.

So kind of an adopted Leeds guy now.

Are you going to classify that, are you? Yeah, because you keep calling me a southern fairy.

Yeah. And that'll never end.

So how can I.

Until you get a right decent Yorker

accent, I don't think that's ever going to happen.

Happen.

I say some weird phrases. I've definitely picked up some terminology.

Oh, yeah, I know. Yeah.

Especially some of yours as well. Should we talk about waz?

All right, I think you're gonna say the other one then. Like, I was like, nah, probably not me. No. Yeah.

That would definitely be cut out by the committee, wouldn't it, really?

Yeah. Yeah. All right.

But no, like, I'll tell you what,

like, fuck melan keys.

I'll do a Jacob and be like, let's do a poll for everyone ever, by the way, because we found out the other day it's not just a Southern thing. What does waz mean? All right, Susie, what does waz mean? Thank you. What did you think it meant?

It's not what I was thinking, man. So we. We had, like. We just changed the vowels. Like, if it was an I, it was a pp. If it was an A, it was some solo time.

Yeah.

In another context.

So for additional context, Kirky had been hearing me say, oh, I'm just off for a waz.

Yeah.

For, like, months since I'd been here and never, ever questioned it. Meanwhile, that's what you obviously thought it was.

Yeah.

And then all of a sudden, we were off site with a boot camp and I just went, oh, like, mate, I'm just gonna pop off for a quick while. And you went, what does that mean? And I was like, it means a wee. And you were like, oh, I thought it meant you were gonna.

Not that like nipping into a bush when you're the boot camps and having a piss is normal, but it's more

normal say, I went in a bush. I wasn't gonna say that bit they could have thought I went in a toilet.

Yeah, they could have thought that. They don't anymore, though. You just called me out. Yeah, fair enough. But it would have been more weird if it was the, you know, which is why the old backhander, which is

like, why I wonder.

Pretty sure you'd get arrested for that.

Oh, 100%.

I think you can get arrested for pissing in a bush, can't you? Probably. It's just pretty weird, isn't it?

Yeah.

But is it like an exposure thing?

Yeah, more so. It's less so.

Like so if you're behind a tree.

Public urination is definitely a thing, though, I think.

Well, like a thing. Like a. Like an activity. It's definitely an activity that people partake in. You mean like a crime?

Yeah, because I remember it's going to be a wild story.

It's a crime.

It's a crime.

It's a crime. I don't know if it should be because, like, what if there's no pump anyway? Sakes Milton Keynes. You can piss in a bush.

Do TWI if you have a reactive dog.

Yeah. Remote programming does work. It done right. It does 100% in person work. Does in. Does work if done right. Get your hands on your dog. Learn from trainers. The know how.

Indeed, sir, they are. Are we done?

Yeah. Hey, we. Should we switch it up? Say bye, Owen.

Bye, Owen.