EP 95: The 3-Second Theory & Why Dogs Snap When You Stop Petting Them

We've had to take both our shoes off because we've had a fight over shoes. We've had a shoe-related incident. Your toe— his toe's out.

You know, you all get fucking cool as shit presents when it's your birthdays.

No, I don't.

Yeah, you do. Off work.

No, they all do. We don't. I don't get cool presents. They all get each other concert tickets and— yeah, they do actually, cars and stuff like that, all through the business. And we get nothing.

I got these socks 2 years ago and then they forgot this year.

We'll be lucky to be told happy birthday 2 years ago.

No one remembered this year. Actually, I think Susie did.

Technically, yeah, if you spread out the presents, you've had one sock a year like Dobby.

And one of them's kind of no good now either. And I feel like there's a whole— oh no, it's even worse. Look.

Oh God. Oh God, it's all, it's all grubby.

'Cause I've been walking in bare feet, 'cause you showed me how to take my shoes off.

You guys, can you let us know? Right, let's put it down to a vote, and then we'll just have to go by it.

I hope there's some keen runners on the cast.

We are.

'Cause runners will appreciate this shoe.

No, they won't.

They're a fucking— They're a mad running shoe. You just don't know, 'cause you wear casual running boots like Salomons, isn't it?

They're trail shoes.

Right. See? Oh, they're officially a trail shoe. I actually believe those are a trail shoe.

Yeah, they are. You can tell by the bottom. See, our worker tie here is 90% black. You're allowed 5% white, 5% yellow. There is no fucking mention of blue anywhere in the code of YCA conduct. Well, now what color these are?

Black. Yeah, that's a black shoe with a blue sole. But if you stood still like I should be, you shouldn't be able to see much blue. I'll even cut these bits off if you want. Yeah, yeah, the little fucking ring poles.

Spray paint the bottom. Surely they came in all black, 100% black.

Yeah, they did.

Yeah, just not in size 13.

Yes, exactly. I was literally going through all the models and all the fucking sizes, and that's as close as I could get.

You'll be all right with them.

Yeah, J-Rod won't ride me too hard for these because I've tried. Like, they're not blue with a bit of black.

But you walked in and I could just see blue out the corner of my eye. I was like, this— I thought they were some sort of disability shoe, to be fair.

Well, they are, kinda.

They look like they should be in the middle of Lidl's special buy aisle. Don't they?

What are you fucking laughing at? It's called— I'm coming at you after the show.

Altra.

Yeah. Shit brand.

Take regular words and change one letter.

Yeah, like change wung valves from ultra. Yes, we're one valve away from those being ultra shoes. Ultra. But for someone who's got long feet, yeah, needs a 13, wide toe box for movement for the sore toe, and cushioning so they're not fully barefoot for the sore knee.

Oh, whatever the cost of your dignity is, is fine.

Yeah, he paid for it as well. Fuck. Yeah, you wait till you see the green ones.

Oh, shi shi.

I won't wear the green ones in work like you do though.

Yeah, right. I've only got beige ones on today because I've had to pack my only black ones because I'll forget them otherwise.

All right, rub it in that you've packed.

I have packed.

Which brings us to the next point. We go away tomorrow.

Yeah, slash today. It is tomorrow. It's tomorrow.

Yeah, the 4 AM. Really early tomorrow. Yeah.

Cochranos is taking us down.

You gonna try to sleep before you go?

I don't know, are you? I might stick Lord of the Rings on.

Probably not gonna have time because you gotta pack. Yeah, I need a haircut, I'm gonna do some washes. Look, the guy missed you yesterday. He asked where you were. He actually asked if you were scared to go, which I don't really know why that would be, but those are literally the words that came out of his mouth. Where is your friend? Is he scared to come? And I was like, no, I think he's gonna come tomorrow. So now you probably gotta go on that one. What's this?

This is fun.

It looks weird. Is this one of those like palate cleansing foams? But a lot of it.

What the fuck is this?

Has it got cola in it?

Yeah. Thank you.

Gotu Kola. Is the foam meant to be there officially?

Yeah.

All right.

It's a, um, what's it called?

A float. A cola float.

No? What you call it? Pop ice cream.

Pop ice cream. Eat the foam though, don't just mix it.

Eat the foam?

Yeah. Sure. It is one of those palate cleansing foams. Yeah.

It feels like—

So loose.

Don't like the foam.

Ice cream though. Did you steal my ice cream to make this? My what? Did you steal my ice cream to make this?

This is crazy.

No, it's got chocolate in it, mine's plain. I don't mind it.

Are you eating the ice cream here?

Yeah, I'm eating everything.

Thanks for that, Kate. Yeah, thank you. What ice cream is it?

Um, berry. Berry. Do these come in like— oh, I almost dribbled in my hole. It's not something you hear every day, is it? And I was wearing the black pants today because I knew I had the hole.

Would you consume one of these recreationally then?

Oh yeah, yeah, like in what circumstance do you order a Coke float? I don't, we just make them at home. Oh, so these don't exist officially? Did you invent these? Like the white chocolate cheesecake?

Has our podcast just invented a second dessert?

I think it might have. Hello everyone, very, very paranoid now.

We're eating ice cream out of a glass.

Glass. We'll have to rerun the pot to do this in camera.

Yeah.

Yeah, fair enough.

For a cast.

We have to redesign the cast.

You're not well, you. You're not well. I don't know who did what.

Bye, baby. I'm alright, thank you. I appreciate what you're giving us here. Yeah, thank you.

I'm struggling with the logistics in how to consume it. Yeah, I'm mixing it.

I don't know whether to like— yeah, I didn't know what to do. You drink at the end.

Apparently Mel knows it's a thing.

Yeah, I float.

All right, we're having them as adults during cast.

Maybe it'll help me swim then. Yeah, I ain't going in the sea over there, bro.

No, I will be. I'll be fighting some sharks.

Maybe like ankle depth or something. He's looking Get a shot of that guy.

He's great, isn't he?

Yeah.

What is he called?

Nacho? Nando. Nacho would be a good name too, actually. Yeah, it would. I know a corgi called Nacho. Cool. What's it like as a dog? What's it like as a dog?

All right, quite chill.

I went to the home visit with the corgi, do you remember? And it was like the size of a fucking— it was like the size of this table. It basically looked like that table because his legs were short like that and it was fat as hell. And it was smashing the pasty out of its owners. Like, why?

Why?

Yeah, they were quite irritating. They were. Yeah, they won't remember, will they? No, they were quite— I kind of got it.

But I'm on the dog side mostly.

It brings me to a question, because this is one of the circumstances it would smash them in. They'd be giving him a tickle, and then they go like, I'm tickling you, and you'd be like, no, you haven't. What do you think that comes from? When people get smashed for stopping stroking their dogs?

Oh, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's quite common, isn't it?

More common than it should be. Yeah, like I get the one where you go in on a strange dog and the dog smashes you, that makes sense. But if you're stroking your own dog and you stop stroking your own dog and that dog smashes you, that makes less sense.

Yeah, I've got theories.

Go on then. I've got one I think we might have spoken about before. I'd like to hear yours first.

Oh, you reckon? This isn't my theory, but how much of it do you think the dog is just angry that they stopped giving them something nice?

It could be.

It's taking it a bit farther, isn't it?

Imagine if like you ever had a Mrs. Obviously I don't. And you're like getting strokes on the arm, or you're stroking their arm. I don't think I would do that, get them to do that to me, but it's like stroking their arm and then I stopped and then just fucking cocked the shit out of me. That would feel like an over—

overreaction. Yeah, yeah. But dogs don't do overreactions or underreactions, do they? They're just apparently not a reaction. They're not like, oh yeah, fuck, that was a bit much. Yeah, it's just whatever is required to bring about desired outcome, I guess.

Yeah.

Um, because I think mine might be stealing yours, which you— so I don't want to take your credit.

I've got a theory, and I'm pretty confident in this theory about some of the incidents, is we know when people are a little bit like— they work around the dog a lot. Yeah, so they're like, maybe they want to, um, take a chew thing off a dog or something, and they go over and they go, oh hey, fucking Fluffy, how are you? Are you okay? And then they stop and they creep the thing away. I think the stopping of it is a cue that you're going to do something I don't want you to do. Oh yeah, nice. Potentially, I don't know for sure, but I've seen them.

I, I just— they're trying to pally the dog up, get them on side.

Yeah, but I think that'll probably happen when you don't have a great relationship with the dog and you— the dog's in the back, you got the humans in the back pocket of the dog prior to that.

All right.

Oh, I get you, you're trying to, you're trying to creep around me here. I know what you're doing, you're trying to take my bone, man. You know what you're gonna not do?

Take my bone.

And I'm gonna tell you that before you even try and take it. So the moment you take your hands away is the cue to me that you're about to reach for my boner. So I'm gonna slap you before you think about the next steps. Brilliant. Alright. Theory. Oh yeah? Conspiracy theory.

I'll throw a theory out there.

Go on then.

It's just a wild guess theory. It's not really like— Brilliant. Fuck it, I've done the best I can right now. Maybe the dog didn't really want to be stroked all that much.

Yeah.

And now on retreat, the dog has gone— or said person has gone to a threshold where the dog would preferentially use aggression over a freeze response. Yeah. Whilst they're like, oh fuck, this is too much, and then they get to like a threshold, it's like, all right, we're at fighting threshold now.

Yeah.

I'm not saying there's anything in that at all.

You definitely do get those dogs who throw out like appeasement behaviors. It looks like they want belly tickles, but actually they're going, nah, nah, I don't want this. Yeah. And then the person does it and then they get fucking wellio'd. Yep. So that would probably fit a bit with that too.

I think it's more likely like a superstitious thing, like you said, to be honest. Maybe. Oh, I don't know.

I don't know, maybe a combination. Maybe it could be all those things.

And I'll read the minds, can we?

No, can't even ask.

Dog trainers out there that might know?

Yeah, any like behaviorists with a dickload of letters after their names?

No?

Yeah. No? Okay.

Yeah, go on.

Yeah, because they could probably say, well, we respect what you got to say.

The upper—

the ear twitch of the left lobe whilst nibbling with the teeth and a left-handed lick of the lips with a right-handed wag would suggest We don't know what we're fucking talking about.

Oh right, no, I knew that.

I could have told you that. Yeah, I know. I'd be, I'd be happy if someone else has got some cool theories that actually might be make some logical sense. I'd rather to hear them.

Yeah, yes, go on then.

Probably not just that, oh, because they've not had their meds today. That doesn't, that's not a theory.

No, that's not a theory. You throw that out. Right now.

People are—

I was on, I did a webinar last night to, um, make a big announcement, which will already be announced by now.

This gets so confusing.

I know, it's a fucking time machine. It's just confusing as fuck. It's like when you watch those movies with time traveling, like, I don't know what's happening. Yeah, that's us.

Like, my brain's like Groundhog Day anyway.

Yeah, we're in the future right now, but yeah.

Uh, now.

Yeah, by the time this is out, we'll already be back from Australia, would we?

Yeah, right. Will we? I wish it was that fast. It's the trouble there, teleportation style.

Yeah, but then we'd miss out on all the plane cuddling.

Yeah, that might be good. This might be good. The lack of sleeping won't be good though. You see, you see my little irritated side when you try and cuddle up to me, but I'm too tired.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right then, what else we got? It's been a great week with the development program.

Yeah, it has been. Maybe we should drag one on. Any suitable candidates? Mike would come on, 100%.

Yeah, Mike's a good boy, isn't he?

Have you packed the other mic away? Yeah, no, no, it's there. Look, it's right there. Adam's taking our old mic.

He's fucking us for mics.

Yeah, so we can do YouTube with his mustache.

Mike needs a mic.

Yeah, yeah, we'll drag him on at some point.

Yeah, nice, because he did both.

He's doing both our mentorships, to be fair. Yeah, he's a mentorship slag. Yeah, yeah, we're having like a mentorship spit roast. That's crazy. Yeah, it is, isn't it? We're basically Eiffel Towering him, high-fiving above him.

Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Yeah, um, so yeah, that's been a good week. Some cool little dogs. Dude from, uh, is he from Holland or Belgium? Holland. Holland. Dude came up from Holland with his wee Dutchie.

Yep, it is one of those small Dutchies too.

It is one of those little Dutchies.

Validates the theory.

Incredibly cute thing. Yes, we got a bloke who's on one of his ambitions is to have his dog on his motorcycle.

That's cool.

Which is also pretty cool.

Choco. Yeah. Bit more of an interesting assignment than stopping smashing up people's living room, innit?

Yeah. You not—

Your dog's a little Napoleon, fuckin' you do, boys.

That's it, innit?

Yeah.

Well, we can go down the route of what other people did with Napoleon. And polish our muskets. Waterloo and all that.

My tiny dog is fucking ruining my life. Can you, um, what do you got for that, boys?

What have you got for a fucking little fucking terrorist?

Little pricky thorn in the side. I don't know, you better ask Ian.

All right, yeah, well, it's a good development week. People from all over the world, yeah, always coming in person, which is crazy.

Yep. And learning some stuff and teaching some stuff. Yeah, mostly teaching. Apparently you retain 94% of information you teach, you retain 10% of information you hear, right? And so if you want to master something, create an obligation to teach said thing.

Oh nice, is that science fact? I don't know. What was the, um, hormozy one you were gonna look up on the drive from the park or to the park?

Yeah, yeah, it was 4 types of, uh, resilience. I was— 4 types of like 4 ways to measure mental toughness.

That's not what it was. You were looking up the definition of trauma.

Oh yeah, let's, let's do that. Which I believe is a permanent change of behavior. One of those phones, my phone stimuli.

No, mate, I've lost the phone again.

Oh no, I was wrong, I was wrong. All right, do we do— oh, Homozy was wrong, really wrong.

Listen, Homozy, wind thy neck in.

Fear and lasting emotional shock and pain caused by emotional shock and pain. So therefore, if it doesn't constitute as both, it wouldn't class as trauma. So I don't, I don't believe that. By an extremely upsetting experience or case of such shock happening.

Fair enough?

Yeah.

Nah.

Don't believe it. No. No. I'm joking.

I'm still joking. Uh, alright then.

Um, there you go, got the dev weekers in. We're flying to Australia tonight. We're doing a boot camp in Perth and then a seminar in Perth, which is, um—

I can't wait for your seminar.

It's not sold out right now, but I'm gonna say it's sold out because what's capacity? 96 tickets sold. Capacity is 100.

Is that the biggest seminar done by a famous dog trainer like you in Australia?

Oh my God, I said a pretty big one.

But how do we know how big? No, probably smaller than— maybe.

Imagine, that'd be funny, wouldn't it? Maybe get some tiramisu.

You're joking with me? Oh God, it would be.

Yeah, it could very well be.

Oh no.

Yeah, yeah, we had to, we had to cap it, but yeah, we probably could have fucking—

because of the capacity of the facility. Yeah, fair enough. There's still a decent number of folks though come to See you, your face.

Our face, mate.

Your face and your voice, all right? Your angelic and wisdomic voice. Really?

This is a joke. This is a joke.

Yeah, pretty accurate.

I just hope that— I just think a couple of podcast listeners there that are just wanting some tiramisu.

Yeah, that'd be good. Can we—

I've not shaved a dog in months.

Do Australia have tiramisu? I know obviously they have Eggs Benedict.

They invented it apparently.

Yeah, so they'll have loads of that. Yeah, so we could have a Benedict and Massou party.

Yeah, yeah, there's only 5 working slots, so we'll fly through them in the morning and then fucking go to the beach or something. Oh yeah, nice. Mince around, get our budgie smugglers on.

I haven't packed them, they're in my van though.

I wonder if they could have a barbecue out there.

Yeah, they are wet.

I think I misplaced mine.

Oh, you— yeah, that's a nightmare. But you can already get them.

To be fair, they were my lucky budgie smugglers only recently. Yeah, I didn't wear them for the last match and that couldn't have ended worse.

No, were you going good though?

Yeah, but yeah, yeah, baby Jesus is probably like, yeah, he's going good, so I need to throw another spanner in this works. Yeah, he's fighting against luck, he's fighting against bad luck right now, he's fighting against misfortune. Yeah, I need Owen to kill a guy.

Spleen a guy.

Have we talked about Owen killing a guy? No, we wouldn't have done, would we?

No, we haven't, no.

I don't know whether we can. No, no, fuck him. The evil fucker.

Grub, grubby, dirty fucker.

Yeah.

Horrible, dirty. Spineless.

Yeah.

Excuse the pun.

Yeah. But spineless dog fucker.

I don't think that's harsh either.

No, it's not. If you were to witness it. Can we AI a video of of what happened.

Yeah, I think so. You can do anything these days, can't you? Yeah, go on. I watch everything thinking it's not real. Yeah, yeah, everything is not real.

Nothing's real. It's real now. Oh, but I saw a 5-year-old Michael Jackson on a bus the other day in Argentina. Or was that Hitler?

I don't know.

It's Michael. Really? No, it's not real. It's AI.

Yeah. Oh yeah, right there, Susie's been sucked in.

Here you go. Turns out that's AI too.

Yeah. But you said, what was it, the, um... Uh... I've had a mental block. What was the Tesla guy? What's his name? Musk. Yeah. You said he said there was like an overly large percentage chance of us being a simulation anyway, didn't you?

No, so there is a... categorically small chance that we're not a simulation.

Which is sort of similar.

Yeah, but that's how he worded it.

Fair enough.

If you look at the advancement in AI just over the last 3 months— yeah, in fact, probably 3 weeks— and if you look at the advancement in video game graphics— yep— in the last 30 years, you could say 10, 5 years, to be fair. If you've seen the previews of GTA 6, pretty crazy.

Oddly, I haven't, but I'm sure we could ping one up there.

There you are. Lifelike. Whereby in the matter of 20 years, we've pretty much gone from, well, let's say 30 years, lines on a screen to basically hyper-realistic. Yeah. And then if we compound that with AI and virtual reality.

Yep.

You only really need to, and it's an exponential curve in the rate we're developing as well. If you look at the last 1,000 years, the technological, technological advancements that have happened in the last 0.0001% of time, yep, is like catastrophic. Yeah, beyond our evolution technologically. And, um, you've only gotta have a little bit of future foresight to, to maybe think if the trajectory keeps going in the way it in which it is, it would be very highly unusual if we didn't have some sort of virtual reality that we believe to be able to live in. Um, and at the moment, in this current time, there are both rats and butterflies that live in a virtual reality, and they believe that they are in their actual reality when they're just suspended in fucking plasma in a jar.

Yes. It's been batteries or whatever it was.

Yes. And so I think it will be the solution to live forever. We are currently old as fuck in the future, sat in a chair in a virtual reality reliving our lives, and that's how we're basically living 30 years in 30 minutes. And crazy. I think that's probably very likely that— why wouldn't they do that?

Why does that fucking hurt so much then?

Yeah, I don't know.

Someone's really sore.

That's what I mean.

Yeah, give us a break, like.

Yeah, yeah, it's weird, isn't it?

Yeah. So, well, that was a very deep moment. Yeah, very pensive, thoughtful.

Oh yeah, mate, it's terrifying because we've got super AI nowadays. Yeah, which is beyond intelligent of actual AI and beyond our comprehension. Yeah, we're actually too fucking thick to even comprehend what might be happening.

It's fucked, isn't it? Yeah, it's gonna get us, isn't it?

100%.

Full T-1000.

Yeah, yeah, AI will be the downfall of mankind. So many like big AI, um, like tech giants are retiring and they've literally said, I'm staring into the abyss, I know it's the end, I'm gonna go spend time with my family. That's just gonna be— yeah, one of the biggest ones like literally retired and become a postman. It's just like, fuck this, I'm not contributing to the end of humankind.

I wonder why he chose to be a postman. Fuck knows.

Get to wear shorts like you all day. Could be a dog trainer, right?

Yeah, UPS guy.

Yeah, both get bitten by dogs. So there you go, none of this really matters because you're gonna fuck it. In fact, I, I probably— yeah, I wouldn't.

It makes me not want to fly and just hang out with my dogs now.

It's already happened. What is the AI thing? It's already happened. We are in a simulation right now, right?

I reckon they're gonna be— it had to happen the first time once, huh?

I mean, it's already happened though.

Yeah, but what I mean is it might not have. This could be the first edition.

Yeah, this could be the first playthrough.

Yeah, because it has to happen once at some point.

Yeah, I know. Well, the only thing we can actually prove is our own consciousness and nothing else. I can't prove you're a real person or very conscious or anything like that. Yeah, it's anything you know for sure.

So how do you prove it?

You can't. Your own consciousness? Yeah, because it exists in front of you. Like, I'm my consciousness is there, but my— I'm— I might just be an observer of the actual reality, which you can't prove. But my consciousness is the only thing I can prove because your consciousness could be like a pre-run program though, no? Yeah, potentially. Yeah, so it's hard to prove it, but the fact that we're talking about it right now is—

yeah, but we might be in programs of that chat.

Who fucking— so we're just a video, aren't we?

Yeah, that makes sense though. Yeah, we're fucked.

Yeah, wow, we're fucked.

You wanted to speak about something else, dog training. You told me about it. Doesn't matter. No, it doesn't matter.

It's fucking just a drop in the ocean.

Just let them train themselves with AI.

Yeah, go on then. It's about punishment.

Go on then.

Um, can you punish after the fact? Well, basically, like, do you have 2 seconds to punish and anything after that is the dog gonna understand? Yeah, because someone gave me abuse on a YouTube comment basically once upon a time, was like, but one, there's too much emotion, it should be done without emotion, and two, I'm gonna fight them. The punishment lasted too long and was like, the dog would— wouldn't have got it after that amount of time. So over to you, sir.

I mean, dogs, have you trained some?

They could have trained lots, but just very badly.

Yeah, how many How much success have you had, son? Oh, oh, I don't know where to look. It's too many now. This, like, when you're trying to look at the— listen.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah. Person of whatever you are, AI fucking mock-up. How many? How many great successes?

To be fair, you send me boobs on Instagram all the time and I'm like, bruv, you know that's an AI picture. And you're like, no, I don't, but I still like it.

Yeah, I do, because they're usually great. I mean, yeah, it's normally not boobs.

Yeah, I'm like, you know you're wanking over cartoons right now, don't you?

Just really, really good cartoons. Yeah, but even prior to that, some people have put— some people like that, was it like the Japanese cartoon?

I used to wank over Kim Possible, to be fair.

You know the Kim Possible?

Ping her up. And then the baddie of Kim Possible too. Ping her up.

It didn't matter which one.

I used to wank over Hanson, so I was I don't think— like, wank, I didn't know. I was just humping pillows. But still, yeah, like, something's happening.

Like, Flea, at the moment, he's just fucking trying to hump everything because Cora's in season. He doesn't know. Like, he's actually— I didn't know. Yeah, it's not his fault. And I've not— I've not used any punishment with him trying to hump the fuck out of everything. I've just like interrupted it because I'm like, he's not This is like a total different thing. He's not conscious right now. No, he's not aware of his own consciousness.

No, he doesn't know what he's doing. He's basically a simulation.

He's simulating something.

A sex simulation.

Hammering the shit out of something.

Fair enough. Yeah, I suppose you're not there by now, to be fair. It's been a while, hasn't it?

I didn't say I wasn't.

Kyrky blue balls.

So there's a reason why I'm not judging him too heavily. I get it, son.

Fucking Castle Blue bollocks. Right, go on then, do the—

tell them. Oh, so I suppose it depends.

Fair enough, wet ass answer.

No, the first bit, the 3-second bit depends. If you're not going to use a marker system like you do with your posse, wozzy. Yeah, so that you can mark it in the moment Yes, you would have to deliver consequence within that 3 seconds that stopped the dog wanting to do that thing again. Chances are then also it would have to be physically shit because that leads into the other bit, right? But if we use a marker system, which is a bridge to consequence, just like our Posse Wozzy ones, and I'm only saying that because I'm a knob, because we use them. Posi-posis. Yeah, we do. Then he understands that the thing he's just done is the thing over time. Yeah. And the actual consequence can come afterwards.

Yeah.

It can also, for me, be way less physical, particularly if you combine it with a longer drawn-out process. Hey man, why? Because there's different variables to the aversive event, right? Yeah, there is. You could have short intensity, in which case it could be a physical dingy dingaroo, or it could be more drawn out, so the duration is the thing that's aversive. I do think that both those things Both those things have to be aversive. What we can't say is that just because we draw it out and use emotion, it's then therefore much less aversive than if the dog gets a crack off or whatever, a prong collar or whatever. Yeah, we can't ask them, but it has to have a significant aversiveness to it, otherwise it wouldn't fucking work. Yep. I also think there's advantages of it because you pull on emotional heartstrings and it has much more longevity than— Like, my analogy was, like, when I was a kid, I got slapped for doing stupid shit. I wasn't, like, a horrible kid, but I was just, like, doing up to stuff all the time. And got slapped. Couldn't tell you what— I can only tell you what one of them was for, and there's a funny reason behind it, and that's because my mum told me not to touch the fucking hot iron.

Yeah.

I touched the hot iron, which burnt like shit, and she also slapped me. So to me, like, looking back, it's kind of funny, but it's like, oh— Surely that was enough.

Maybe not.

Maybe I hadn't learned.

Yeah, whoop your ass too, boy.

Yeah, but— and I use this in front of boot campers on the Debbie program— I remember when she left me once in British Home Stores upstairs and she went down the escalator, and I couldn't use an escalator at the time. So in my head, and I can still see it clear as day in my head, of like my mum like just drifting over this fucking escalator going down and me being stood there thinking, oh my fucking God. 'Cause I was like fucking little, mate. I was like 2 years old.

You were never little, firstly.

You were 2 years old.

Physically— Do you mean 2? You left on your own walking bike.

I don't know.

To use an escalator, you just stand there.

You gotta get on and move in and stuff.

So you were just too afraid.

Probably, yeah.

As opposed to you didn't know how to use one. You hadn't learned the skill of using one yet.

Both of those two things, probably.

Fair enough.

Go on then. But the poignant part was Susan— drifting off. And obviously as they go off, because it goes down naturally, they just disappear like that, don't they? Like the Lady of the Lake in King Arthur. Yeah. And then she was just fucking gone. Yeah.

And I was like, oh my fucking God.

I probably didn't know the word fucking then. No, because I was 2, 3 quarters. But I can remember like the scene of the fucking shop and everything. I can like feel the vibe of it. And that was a lot of years ago, right? It stuck with me the whole time. That cut me deep and it had a long-lasting, maybe even a traumatic effect.

Purposefully?

I think so, yeah. But I'd been a knob. Like, it wasn't like I was just going, "Eee, eee, eee." And she was like, "Oh, fuck this cunt, get rid of him," and booked off. I don't think it was that. I remember being a dickhead. I was having a paddy about something. I wanted to eat something, wasn't allowed. But we, I don't know. So I don't remember this, I remember that bit, but I remember the event entirely. But the other thing as well, like, and that I told you, didn't I, like, um, I think I'm pretty sure where I was listening to Jay Jack talking about when you give like positive reinforcement, because this is the neutrality bit, right, not being emotional. People aren't like PEZ dispensers and just going yes, people are yes. 'Yeah, maybe.' Um, they're often like, 'Yeah, nice,' and they feel good about it. And that happens, and it's a fucking natural thing to do because you're connected to your dog. Yeah, I think that's a valid thing to do. On the flip side of it, it's not bad. Yeah, like, 'Oh, come on, man, why the fuck have you done that for?' Yeah, 'You done the thing again. You told me to take my shoes off.' So I do, I wholeheartedly believe because I've seen it a lot that a bit of duration and a bit of emotion combined with having a way of saying it was that bit that you got wrong, 100% it works and it's incredibly effective. I just don't think people, um, anthropomorph— anthropomorph denial— anthropodenial.

Yeah, nice.

Fuck it. We'll go with that. One of those two iterations. Anthropodenial. Yes, the opposite of anthropomorphism. Yeah, nice. Yeah, we shouldn't fucking humanize the fuck out of dogs because they're not dogs and they've got other shit going on, but we also discredit them by saying, oh, you don't understand emotion and communication. Yeah, it's like a fucking— if the thing's hot, you don't go near it. If it's not, you do. And if it's tasty, you eat it. And if it's not, you don't.

I think people massively underestimate the dog's emotional intelligence.

It's crazy.

Yeah, I'm just like, that's just the same old people though that haven't properly lived with dogs. Yeah, the mechanical trainers.

I was talking to Simo, yeah, like a list. He came to me a list yesterday. He sat on the sofa and they're asking me like some different questions. They were pretty good questions. One of them was like what dogs like understand in communication, and as it happened Dolly was on the other sofa with Chloe, and she went to go into the men's toilets, and all Chloe said was, 'I don't go in there.' I'm pretty sure she's never taught her 'I don't go in there' cue. And Dolls just went, 'All right,' and came out and went and fucking did something else. Yeah. So like, explain that then, if they don't understand stuff.

Yep.

There's no way she's like that's happened enough times for her to go, oh, when this happened, you came and got me, and then I wasn't allowed in the men's toilet, and that was the result of that, and now we're in my fucking Skinner box. No, she just went, oh yeah, I feel the vibe that you don't want me to go in there. Yeah, sure, pretty convinced. I'm convinced. Yep. So, so long as you can tell the dog in the moment that it's fucking— he's done a bit of a boo-boo afterwards, it's fine. We've seen that too much for it to not be true. But that's the whole point of a marker system, right? You don't, you don't have to get your biscuit to the dog every time it does something good within 3 seconds because you use a marker. So why would the maths not be the same?

I just think the danger of not doing it that way and just having to apply the aversive in the 3 seconds and the dog's doing something wrong and you're like, I can't do anything about it now because I've missed it.

Yep.

Yeah, we can inadvertently reinforce the dog for avoiding consequence via the behavior, and then we make it exponentially worse.

Definitely. I've seen all that happen a lot.

Yeah, or counter surfing is another one.

But likely likewise, like, I think it means that the physical aversive in the moment has to be higher. Yeah, because if I've only got 3 seconds to apply it, well then the amplitude has got to be higher. Yeah, than if I peel that down by dragging out and be like, motherfucker, you just tried to fucking eat the cheese off the side, you fucking douchebag, rather than cheese whack. Well, I don't want to punch my dog in the face. Nope. I want to tell him that that's a silly idea because blue cheese isn't the best for dogs, you know. Maybe we'll give you cheddar sometime.

Huberman and Peterson just did a really interesting podcast on punishing children and how effective timeouts are because they're such social creatures. And yeah, I think they made a reference to dogs at some point as well. Yeah, um, might not have—

he's got new dogs, so you may have. Yeah, no doggy, no certainty, didn't I? No, we know.

And yeah, just, you know, social isolation. And we've spent millennia working together to evolve and to be exempt from being with one another, as humans and dogs have worked for a long time to Exactly.

And your dogs want to be with you, right? You'd hope so. I hope so. I always hope my dogs are like borderline separation anxiety. I think Flea might have it, but yeah, at least some incredibly severe diagnosis. But you like, why would you not want your dog to be like, oh fuck, he's gone somewhere without me?

Yeah, there's a degree to it, isn't it?

It'd be weird if it wasn't. Yeah, like if you go out when you— in fact, this happened this week. You went for fucking lunch somewhere breakfast or something. Yep. You came back and you're like, mate, I'm sorry, I've just been— I was like, oh, you had a bit of FOMO, didn't you?

Yeah, you were busy, dipped back in.

Yeah, I'm busy. I'm too busy for you, mate. But yeah, it feels shit, doesn't it? Yeah, when like a solid compadre goes off and maybe even has tea at some point as well, and you go with a wine or something.

And we're going for tea tonight, aren't we? And then we're glued to each other for Yeah, okay, 15 days.

Yeah, but you can explain that to me. You can't explain that to your dog.

Yeah, interesting, isn't it?

I can't explain to my dogs I'm off on a plane tomorrow.

Funny, when there's separation anxiety, it's like, yeah, kind of more valid than the guy that doesn't care. Yeah, I've given you everything you've ever had to survive. Yeah, my thumbs let you outside and you really like outside. Yep, my thumbs open food and you literally need that to live. And you've— if you've been witness to all that, and I just walk out the fucking house one day.

Yeah, resource guarding of humans makes sense.

Yep.

Separation anxiety of humans makes sense.

Yeah. Stop coming near them because I need them.

You are key. You're literally key to my existence. Yeah.

Can you stop flicking shit over there, please? It's incredibly annoying.

I can't say anything. Me on calls, I'm just like this.

Everyone's a fucking old ADHD around here, you know. Something in the water.

The water. All right, I think like this has been an incredibly educational— well, maybe not educational, but opinionated podcast.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because even the punishment bit, we're only really preaching to like a few people, right? Because half of them are just gonna go, oh, you said to me, I'm gonna— you paid me because you can't punish them.

No, I don't think anyone that thinks you can't punish a dog listens to this podcast, mate.

Oh, okay.

No one.

Oh, brilliant. So we're speaking to 100% of people. Yes. In which case, Philly Boots.

Yeah, we just told you how to punish even better.

You can, yeah, you can mark it in the moment. You don't have to get there straight away and you can drag out, really draw it out.

Really draw it out.

Really fucking cut some fucking mentally deep. And then just like, fuck.

Did Jacob fall out of his dog for like a day or something?

Yeah, probably. Yeah, I can see him doing that.

Yeah, fair enough.

But it's better than beating your dog up, isn't it?

And it's like, hey, come on.

You did what? Yep. I am never speaking to you ever again.

It's like when you disappointed— Owen disappointed you.

Yeah, I used that in the boot camp this week. I even got him in the room.

He's upset about it, isn't he?

He knew what I was going to do before I got him in, and he did that. He was like a quivering wreck, and I was like, does anyone— can anyone see what he's doing now? And they were like, yeah, he's traumatized, isn't he? He's like fucking wrenched. And I was like, yeah, because I haven't told him it's okay yet. And I still haven't.

Well, like 6 days. Drawn it out. Yeah, he's never gonna spear tackle anyone in the spine ever again.

Not in front of you anyway. No, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Another podcast.

Yeah, yeah, there is that.

There's a genuine throw clear, by the way.

Uh, okay.

And anything else?

This has been the most educational podcast I've heard for a while. There you go. Of anyone human.

So when's this coming out? Will this be like a couple of days before South launch, South opening, or what? We're also going to do some podcasts on the way. Oh yeah, yeah, I want to do a podcast on the plane.

Do you?

If we're sat near each other.

Oh nice. Should we recruit one of the like staffs if they want to fucking do something.

Well, let's do a desis.

The 5th of June.

5th of June. All right, so 10 days from now we're heading down south to do a, uh, boot camp at YCA South. There's a picture of it. Bang!

Let's change our accents because they won't understand us. Oh, wait, mate, here we are for a boot camp.

Give us your dog then. This is a prong collar. You can stick it on a balloon, look, it don't pop the balloon because it's not fucking sharpened.

You could drag your punishment out as long as you bloody want. Is that— that's got to be pretty close.

What's the song of Oliver? Can't city yourself, can't city yourself, part of the family. Fucking Danny fucking Dyer.

Can we get him to come? Can he visit us? That'd be great, wouldn't it? You must have a dog. Yeah, dog Dan. Do you have a dog, Danny? Danny Dog Danny. Doggy Dan. Doggy Dyer. Does he have a dog? I think I can hear my Could just be in my head. Yeah, yeah, could be.

When they do it enough. Yeah, no, it is in my head.

Yeah, good.

When they do it enough. You're right there, mate. You're right there. Right there on Flea.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, a lot.

You'll do that. Happened at our round day walk today.

No, it's very like, um, it was a smaller boot camp obviously, but they negotiated plenty of dogs, to be fair. The real— did you see that tank of a Labrador that came through near the lakeside? The big black one? Yeah, genuinely, at one point, because I was next to Mark, he said hello to every single dog. Yeah.

I liked him.

Yeah, he chest bumped a few of them, I think.

Did he? Yeah.

Oh yeah, fucking move. Um, yeah, well, I met him on a narrow piece of path. Mark was next to me and I was like, I've got to move here because he can't. No, I genuinely thought he's gonna bump me into the lake. He's just gonna fucking— whoa, you know, like the running challenge. Yeah, fucking send me in.

He was wider than you too.

Yeah, he was like—

I was just through a picture of a up of him there. Truly big chunky bastard. Chunky was the— yeah, he had the right fucking one on the best time, wasn't he?

Dogs and that, innit?

What's the Lion King song? Hakuna Matata.

Oh yeah, nice.

Yeah, what a wonderful day. Hakuna Matata. Little Dasher on his back. No, um, yeah, it means no worries.

Hicks was pretty incident-free. Wouldn't bark.

Yeah, service was great though. There's plenty of service-based incidents. Yes, you forgot my diet coke.

You went all reactive.

I had a salad.

To be fair, I was reactive at my— like, you know how people have nemesis dogs? Like, dogs have nemesis dogs. Oh, it's—

yeah, but oh yeah, this won't count with the nemesis dog.

This will be different when we see the nemesis dog. You like, well, yeah, it could be, because he's just got more history. I've got one of those guys at Hickory's.

Yeah, spindly bastard. Spindly bastard, isn't he?

He is too.

Yeah, smackheady looking thing. Yeah, he work there? I don't know, he's always there.

He is always there. Coincidental.

Why'd you hate him? Just to be clear, you've never met this guy? Spoke to—

he's never said a single horrible word to me.

You fucking hate him, don't you?

Yeah, but he just eyeballs the the fuck out of me.

And I'm like, mate, like, ah, and he looks like a shit Keanu Reeves or something.

Yeah, what if he's like Keanu Reeves and just fucking dishes me up and just starts rolling around the floor and like pulling guns out of my hand I don't even have and then puts them— I'm just like, what the fuck, with his headphones on? Because he already has headphones. He takes them off to come in and then he puts them on when he goes outside.

Does he?

Yeah, yeah.

I see him walk in, you change in demeanor, you're like Yeah, just like a stiff hackle.

Yeah, mouth closes. Was panting.

Yeah, Stark when he sees a bull, or Kobe.

Laser eye, laser focus.

Yeah, you really don't like that guy.

I don't even think I breathe.

Interesting.

For the 10 to 15 minutes inside, you might—

he might be sound. You might really get on with him.

Yeah, I'll be honest, I've had that a few times. Especially back like closest to my playing days. And I'd go somewhere and be like, oh, this guy wants to fight me. And they just be like, oh, did you play? Used to play?

I was like, oh yeah, yeah, I did. Yeah, sorry, mate.

You don't know how close we were to fucking scrapping.

I had it in the airport once.

Yeah, I know. Yeah, some guy, he's like staring at me like this, maybe you'll get it this time too.

I'm not looking back at him like— and you know when you like do this, like you look away, then you come back and double check and you're like He's still fucking staring.

Yep.

I did one more time.

Listen, I walk up to him like, you all right?

He's like, oh yeah, dog trainer, aren't you? I was like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, oh, follow you on Instagram. Where you going?

Where you going? Where are you going?

But I don't know why he looks so angry to try and figure it out.

Yeah, yeah, that's the, that's the thing, isn't it?

You're that dog trainer on Instagram nowadays, to be fair, mate. Just going viral left, right, and center, isn't he? Never catch up.

Bukkake. There he is. Bukkake.

Bukkake. I love just that tiramisu face.

We haven't had any tiramisu today, but I believe there is some. Where is it?

I've had some.

Have you actually?

Oh, that was awkward. You want me to go get you some? Yeah, you fucked off. You fucked off.

I had to toilet my dogs. You had yours with you.

Fair enough. We also had our ice cream today, though.

We did, yeah.

That'd be my third dessert of the day. I've had Ben Jerry's, Terry's Soup, and a Mr. Whippy.

No, no, this is a punishment event. Don't come up with all the appeasement ice creams now.

Yeah, nice.

You did a naughty thing.

I tried to make it better.

You shouldn't do that again.

No, I won't.

Yeah.

I won't. I tried to make it better though by telling you—

Yeah, see, I'm not gonna punch you in the face.

—things you did before together.

Remember the sit we do? Yeah, I remember that, but right now I'm talking about tiramisu.

I'll lie down and be good because when I lie down you call me good boy, so I'll lie down and then it's all forgotten about, right?

Well, not this time, sunshine. This time we're talking tiramisu and Isaac.

I will get you tiramisu now to make it better, and then maybe you forgive me, and then it undermines everything. Well, it might do. Do you want me to get—

that's okay, Luca said he will. Yeah, I do. Just a little bit.

Yeah, fuck it, go on. We've got it from Siroso.

Siroso? Yeah, we've had it from there before, haven't we?

Second highest rated, yeah. Is it? It's good, yeah.

I'd like to have another go on the mascarpone cheesy one.

Would you? Yeah. I've got no interest in doing that one again.

No?

Not at all, mate.

Do you reckon Perth will have a tiramisu bar like Melbourne did?

Yes, amazing. I'll Google it now. Um, do many people send you tiramisu memes on, um— I get loads of people in my Instagram.

I have a couple of other people have, but I don't have anywhere near as many exponential followers as you do. Exponential followers?

Oh shit, Samuel's on, on Mill, right? He's got many options. You pay $35 for 3 to 4 people on a Friday. For 3 to 4 people?

How does that work? I don't know.

You just walk in, you're like, "Oh yeah, this is gonna be 4." "Oh, you with that guy?

That's 4 to 6." What the fuck? He's even carrying it like— you've got experience, haven't you?

Give me that smaller one. That's the bigger one. Yeah, you've got experience.

Do you? Where did you work?

What? Rent boy. You could tell.

That looked really fucking smooth how you came to that. I wish we had a video of that.

What? Pubs, restaurants.

Pubs and restaurants. Shit ton of jobs. I've been a lifeguard. I don't think any of the lifeguard skills came into that little passage of play there.

This is great. What pubs and restaurants?

It's truly great. It's the locals. Toby Carvery. Yeah, you don't have one of them near us. What do you mean? It's like an own brand one. I don't think I've ever been to a Toby Carvery. You wouldn't. It's not that great. No. Carvery freaks me out a bit. Why? Yeah, why? Because people just stick their hands in everything, don't they?

Kids picking them up. Do they? Yeah, that's true.

Do they? Buffets, yeah, yeah. Everyone's got incredible food poisoning from a buffet in Las Vegas.

Oh, I can imagine. There's at least 20 places to get tiramisu in Perth.

All right, brilliant.

We'll get through a few of them.

Yeah, how many days are we there?

Every time we go for tiramisu, we'll record you guys a podcast. How about that? Yeah, yeah, we'll do a vlog for you.

Do you want me to take that camera that you really like the noise of when it turns on and off?

That's proof. Take it, shove it up your asshole. You gonna take it?

Shove it up your ass.

Up there with Fleas Bog.

That was great. That was fucking great. Striding. Do you wanna get Mike on if Mike comes past?

Is Mike in there? Mike Lowry. Old Mike. No, he's not. Let's fuck it off. Oh, nice, Suze. I've never seen you react to anything that fast.

That was cat-like. It was cat-like. Well done. Cat-like but with thumbs. If a cat had thumbs, that was a cat move. I'm gonna do it.

I'm gonna be a cat. Brilliant. So we'll just pretend we've had Mike in here having a great time. Cheers, Mike. Having a great time.

He's outta here.

He fucking disappeared.

He's done those ones. So we could shake at the same time. I hope you enjoyed our Eiffel Tower. Yeah, you're welcome.

Where are you spaffing? I'm going all over his back.

Ah, sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. Yeah, no, that was a lot.

That was a lot. How long has this been in there?

It looks like it's been— There's a person there that looked at me as I said that.

Right, should we wrap her up? Well, good to see you all. Yeah, great to have you.

Educational one, that one, mostly, until it got onto the spit roast. But before that, it was pretty good. Yeah, hopefully we push them through the education to get to the shit they really come for, which is the obscene, obscene spit roasting of my—

That wasn't me. Oh, here you go again.

All right then, well, we'll see you in Australia. We will.

Say bye, Ian. Bye, Ian. Mouth with my one.