EP 85: The "UPS Driver" Hack To Make Your Dog Listen

Yeah, so we had a chat and we've, you know, we forgot our roots for a little while and we stopped consuming caffeine on, on the podcast.

That's— oh yeah, we did. Yeah, I'm kind of off it. Well, I'm not off it, but I try to exclusively have it early in the morning.

Yeah, yeah, it turns out neither of us can do sleep anymore either.

If anyone's got anybody's sleep tips, that'd be good.

He has some sleep advice, would be great. I've tried the tablets. I'm just about ready to just fucking run full pelt into wall and hope for the best. So we thought, right, what compromise can we make? And tiramisu technically does have caffeine in.

Nice. Hopefully not too much.

Not too much because we won't be sleeping. And we both love tiramisu. We do. So this is going to be the Tiramisu Podcast. We're going to start a weekly tradition here at the YCA whereby we enjoy a fresh tiramisu with our clientele on a Wednesday.

Nice.

Tiramisu Wednesdays.

Amazing.

There was talks of making a Tiramisu Tuesday, but I think like rewarding people that too soon in the week would set a bad precedent.

Yeah, everyone's just gonna take foot off the gas, aren't they?

Yeah.

So without further ado, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday is complete write-off.

Yeah, Saturday maybe back up, but so yeah, if you want to join us for some tiramisu with this podcast, you'd be more than welcome to.

And if anyone's got an amazing tiramisu recipe, I've never made a tiramisu. No, I feel like I should because I enjoy it so much. I feel like I should have a go at it. And obviously my cheesecake's amazing. It is, yeah.

Your white choccy choccy.

So you can only assume that I'd do a really good job of tiramisu.

Where did the white choccy cheesecake start from?

I actually invented it. Smack it, smack it.

No, earlier, right? Oh, he said some people just say things and make stuff up on the spot. Yeah, that was one of those times. No, you didn't invent white choccy cheesecake.

I did, mate.

So no one ever fucking made a white chocolate cheesecake before you did?

I do not think so.

Well, fair fucks. I was adamant I invented something once and then someone gave me the fucking evidence that I most certainly didn't. I can't remember what it was.

Was it good evidence?

Yeah, I definitely didn't invent whatever it was. It was like a long while back too.

No one's ever presented me with any conclusive evidence I didn't invent white cheesecakes. I'm just going to go with it.

You better fucking believe I'm going to go looking though. I'm going to drive down to South Wales straight into my granny's house. I'm going to do fucking kick put a fucking door in. You're doing all the cooking.

Frenchy.

Yeah.

So you got to dodge the Frenchy.

Kick him out. Shut him out. I'm going to ninjutsu in. I'm going to kick down a pantry, which isn't a euphemism. That'd be awful. That'd be an awful, awful euphemism.

Why would you even need to suggest that?

Oh, mate, what's wrong with you? What's wrong with you? That's your grandma's pantry, mate. You're gonna fucking— right, I'm gonna spread the curtains, smash her back doors in.

I've seen pantries with a curtain rather than a door.

Yeah, yeah, she does.

That's the point. Or she has.

Anyway, I'm gonna check all the cookbooks, every single one. We're gonna go up into her attic again, I'm gonna go blow all the dust off. I'm gonna rifle through her archive.

Oh, fuck you.

And see if anyone invented a white chocolate cheesecake before you did. And I'll be like, ha, 1972.

Fair enough. But until that point, I'm gonna bask in my glory. White cheesecake. Plus, I don't think anyone's ever made my white cheesecake. White chocolate cheesecake. Well, put secret ingredients in it. Secret blend of cheeses. Is it a good base?

Is it? All right, okay. You're gonna disclose or no?

No, it's a secret, isn't it? I mean, obviously if anybody ever wants to come up, I'll consider making it if they make a trip from a long way off. The girls in the office got the shits with me because I made you one at Christmas and they've never had any.

They literally got me a very hairy one, to be fair. We had to all sit there with tweezers and pull out a lot of dog hair. Is that your secret ingredient?

A bit of bumble. Yeah. No, that was a bit of an error because it traveled in the passenger seat up to your house. Obviously my dogs travel on the passenger seat. Not that day, it was Owen.

He's a bit of a dog. He is a dog. Got that dog in him.

Yeah, okay. We had a good week though.

Yeah, it's been great. You had your dev week, haven't you?

Actually, a really good week.

Yeah, into the stratosphere and dominated a good week of education for prospective dog trainers. You want to talk about that a little bit while I fucking try and sift through this?

Yeah, a tiny bit.

Tag you in, please.

Well, obviously, like, um, a lot of it's delivered remotely, um, Google Halls, lecture slides, little quizzes, tests, all that kind of stuff to get a general background of knowledge. And then they come up and see us and we get some hands-on some dogs within the realms of safety. And just so happened that this week worked out some of the dogs are a little bit spicy, so the start of the week has to be a bit slow, obviously. Yeah, I wouldn't feel great if someone got absolutely dished up by um, some sort of Malmo mix. So it had to be late, but the back end of the week's been great. They've got the dogs, they've been running sessions under the watchful eye of our other trainers, but it's been great. Yeah, been good to meet him actually as well, like playing. Yeah, it's like, yeah, flesh faces and names rather than just boxes on screens. Been great.

Oh, I was gonna say something— tiramisu's got me, I'm gonna be comatized.

Yeah, so, so Jacob Morgan's got a thing that he doesn't eat anything, anything ever. No, doing anything important, anything cognitive. Yeah, he's like, I can't eat before that because I turn stupid. Yeah, stupid.

It makes me snoozy or something. Yeah, surely there's an insulin spike which will affect my— not lipids, what is it? What is it, lipids?

I don't know. I don't actually know the mechanism.

Leptin makes you sleepy.

Does it?

Sugar spikes insulin, which then— you know that, you know you're right. Bollocks, been out this whole podcast.

There it is, look.

There it is, ladies and gentlemen. My right nut.

There's a book called My Left Butch. This is My Right Nut. Ian Kirk.

It's a cookery book.

What were we saying? We were talking about the Dev Week and how great it was.

Yeah, you got some, um, People come from overseas, isn't that right?

Uh, yep, chaps come over from Sweden.

Got a Northern Irish guy no one understands. That's funny. Yeah, we're gonna try and put him on the podcast.

Even the two Northern Irish staff we've got don't understand.

Which is some doing.

They didn't even realize he was Northern Irish.

Yeah, they just thought he was special.

And then he thought Alex was Scottish because he's so little.

He's so un-Northern Irish. We know he is Northern Irish.

Yeah, so that was pretty weird. But now he's from— he's from Sweden, Ireland, um, all walks of the UK countryside. Swedish lady who lives in England, that kind of counts. This is pretty cool. Yeah. And then, um, as far down as Devon, Hastings.

Your next cohort is starting when?

Monday.

Straight back into it. No off-season, mate. You don't even have time for a little, you know, a little trip to the lakes. There's like a postseason trip. Uh, yeah. So do you know where people are coming from for— from your next cohort?

Uh, there's certainly folk in further afield places. America, Australia. I don't know if they're coming for the, uh, for the—

a couple of weeks in and they will. There'll be too much hype around it.

Yeah, yeah, I think you might be right. They'll be a little sketchy for you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm gonna get there.

Um, yeah, straight through a war zone.

And to be fair, sorry, on this cohort there was American chap. He did make it over. He didn't make it over this week, but he made it over a different week. Which is cool.

I do do the sideburns. Yeah, yeah, looks like JPR Williams.

Yeah, Andrew. Yeah, yeah, he was a good guy, all the way over from LA. He was— is it? Yeah.

Oh, sick. Yeah. So, um, there's a slight theme of the podcast which is going to require me to tell somewhat of a story, and then I will hand it over to you from there in order to relay to our lovely audience as to why it's relevant to dog training.

Okay.

Yeah.

Going in.

So if you've had the luxury of meeting Kirkie in real life, you'll know initially he can be somewhat of a reserved character. Let's say you're a bit of an introvert. Is that fair enough? No. You're doing it right now.

No.

Tortoise. Yes, which is fine. But then like, obviously when you're in a circle, there's very few people in that circle, you know, he comes out of his shell. So, you know, generally he can be on the front end a little bit cold, but he's not a cold person, right? And that's important context to make this story quite funny, and it'll be even funnier if you do have met him in real life, right?

Judge quickly.

You do judge quickly. Yeah, but you do forgive too, to be fair.

That's true.

He will judge you really quickly. Like, he's fallen out with Young Man at the moment, yeah, calling him Kirk instead of Kirkie. So he'll hold that against him for a couple of weeks.

So we'll just, you know.

Yeah, but he will forgive. Like, he'll recover from it. He doesn't hold grudges, to be fair. But he will jump— yeah, you jump to—

oh yeah, yeah.

All right, fair enough. There you go, right? So, um, Not volatile in any way, but not usually.

No, sometimes. No road rage.

Yeah, yeah, mate, bad road rage.

Yeah, very frustrating.

Is it Dan Mitch that's also got— is it Dan Mitch that has awful road rage, or is it you? Should just be mostly me.

Yeah, yeah, I've got enough for both of us. It's fine. Yeah, if you're banned from driving the YCA van, didn't I?

Yeah, you weren't allowed to drive a branded van because he's just so fucking— you are like a calm person not in a car though. You're not an angry dude, to be fair.

Oh no, I wouldn't say so.

No, at all.

Just segueing slightly, a guy got me the other day though. You know the Normans? I was telling Susie this. You know the Norman streets? They run parallel up to the front. Like the religion?

Oh, right. Oh, that's Mormons. I was like, what, you beat up a Mormon kid?

Normans were those people with like bows and arrows in the 1066 and that.

Yeah.

I saw him turn up the front street. I turned up that street. They run parallel. I came out the top slightly earlier than him. As I looked across, as I went past the end of his road, He was going like this.

Oh, just because you beat him fair and square? Yeah.

And I was like, no, no.

Have you ever got out of the car?

Well, I stopped and reversed. I didn't get out, but I just went like this. Obviously he couldn't hear me. There's two panes of glass, vehicle noise. I just went, what? What? It's not like I cut him up. I didn't fuck him over in any way, and he just decided to come at me like that.

You just lost.

Yeah.

I get road rage when people get road rage at me, which is a bit of an oxymoron, but like, I'm— I believe I'm really cool on the road until someone gets angry at me, and then I flip my lid. I feel so unnecessary.

But then I forgive you for that. That's like a bit like reactive dogs, right? Here we go.

Yeah, this isn't the thing, but yeah, go on.

So like, if a dog and they do a little bit of something back, I don't think we can really judge that.

Nah.

Now if my dog is the dog going absolutely batshit proactive crazy trying to affect that motherfucker's life for no reason—

Mind your necking.

Yeah, stop it.

Well, there you go. So I'm in the wrong here. Yeah, you were being a little bit proactive.

The finger guy.

I've seen someone just like, yeah, not give you a thank you and you lose your fucking head, don't you?

That's impolite.

That's impolite, mate.

Do you know what I'm like with manners though? Yeah, fair enough, fair enough. Just like, check it for me.

You're welcome! You are welcome!

In the Batman voice. You're welcome! It's true, I can't deny it.

Yeah, you fucking slapped him.

In answer to your question, have I ever got out? I've got— I have got out, yeah, but people tend to drive off. The funniest one I ever had, though, was on a one-way street. Or like a one-way road. It goes both ways. This big delivery guy drove past where he could've pulled in, like, at me, so I had nowhere to go. Yeah? And he was like, "You gotta fucking reverse." And I was like, "No." In the highway code, the person coming up the hill has the right of way. You had somewhere you could pull in on the left-hand side. This is what's going through my brain.

You had somewhere to pull in. So how are you acting?

I quickly rationalised the violence. Yeah, like, right, okay, you had somewhere you could pull into, I didn't. I'm coming uphill, you can absolutely go fuck yourself, TNT guy. So he's there like giving me this out the fucking window. So I just took the key out of the ignition and I put on my dash so that you could see it and was like, I've got all fucking day. He was clearly in a rush and he was just like flapping, flapping, flapping, banged into reverse, moved, and I was like You're welcome.

Let's circle back to our first initial story. Yeah, so hopefully after that you have— you know a little bit about Kirkie's character, the type of person he is. And if you listen to this podcast, you probably— in fact, I think if you listen to this podcast, you probably have a little bit of a false positive of Kirkie's character. Not for— yeah, because he's actually way worse than— yeah, this is like the best version of him to Don't meet him in person. Yeah, you'll be bitterly disappointed if you ever did meet him, because if this is what you believe him to be like, it's not. He's like this for 45 minutes a week.

Remember that time on your mentorship weekend I spoke to no one? Yeah, until I text someone across the room because I already knew it.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's more the cooking you're gonna get. Yeah, you have to bear in mind there's no one actually here bar a young man and Suzanne.

Yeah. So 50% of those are okay.

Yeah.

They're—

yeah.

Yeah. Oh, fuck.

So you're an open book on the podcast is what I'm saying.

Yeah. Pabs is really having a go, isn't he? Yeah.

Pabs is building a breakfast bar. Yeah. Susie, you'll go take a photo for us. In fact, young man can go on. Yeah.

There he goes.

Look. You start telling him, Flooze.

Fetch.

Good boy.

Have a bit of that tiramisu when he comes back. Here's a spoonful for you. Yep.

Do you want a bite of tiramisu for you? Oh, all right.

Didn't mind.

He's all right. There you go. And then again, sometimes the dog doesn't want the reinforcer.

And sometimes—

Even if you think they do.

Even if you think they should want it, for whatever reason, they turn their nose up like an ungrateful little swine.

Yeah, usually there's spoils.

Fucking, yeah, not today.

Tiramisu? I would like Brie. Mascarpone? Brie. I want Edam.

Right, oven baked.

We gotta get this story out, otherwise—

All right, sorry.

Yeah, so we're sat there. Uh, it was the week Kelly the dog walker was here.

The drunken dog walker. Kelly the alcoholic. Yeah, there she is.

Look, do an AI like wanted drunk dog walker. She could be though. Oh, so me, you, and her— sorry.

Yep.

You, her, and I are stood in a triangle. Having a chat. Yeah, you were pulling your, like, normal— this, you know, this face you do.

Yeah, do I?

But we were talking.

Yeah, I was just probably just deep in pensive thought about whatever you were speaking about.

We're mid-conversation, in full flow, with company, with company, a guest, albeit an alcoholic guest.

Yeah.

And the door goes, well, fucking, I don't know, someone arrives. And my God, I've never seen you. I don't know how to describe it. It was like a dog responding to a very well-conditioned terminal marker.

Oh, nice.

Ears pricked up, eyes widened. There was a shine in the eyes.

Positive emotional response.

Yeah. Like you just got really sprightly all of a sudden.

Amazing.

And then, which I've never seen this before in my life, you skipped to the door. Yeah, right. And me and Kelly at this point are like, what the fuck has just happened? Like, what has made this man act like this? And on the other side of the door, there's a short middle-aged UPS driver, and he— and Kirkie, as he's skipping over, he goes, oh, my mate. And like It's just this most jovial kind of skipping spring in his step that you just don't see around here. And literally, I look at Kelly and her jaw has hit the fucking floor. It could have been the hangover, to be fair. She's like, who is that guy?

Yeah.

And like, so you've been talking about both of us at that point. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. Yeah, because he was happy too, to be fair. He's always happy to see you. Yeah, yeah, I remember he used to like rock up to the old place and like swing out like that, like a fucking '90s rom-com, like engine still going. Yeah, engine's still going.

Yeah, so fucking— yeah.

So at this point you're behind the glass, so we can't hear you, but we can see you. Yeah, we can read body language, jostling back and forth, literally like fucking fake punching each other, laughing and stuff. And Kelly's like I'm still speechless. I haven't said a word at this point. Kelly's like, no, no, seriously, who is that guy? I'm just like, like, absolutely fucking perplexed. There's other people around, but they've not noticed it like we do. And we're literally like, the fuck have we just seen? And she's going, no, no, who is that guy? Bollocks out again.

I'll shift. Thanks.

Okay, that's good.

On the zoom-in one, it's okay.

Okay, we get a close-up on the grape, right? And then he hands over whatever you need or whatever. You come back in, and as you come back in, you make this sound. Enjoying the conversation, to which then your face reduced back to baseline.

Yeah.

And Kelly, again, she's like, who was that? No, seriously, like, who is that? She's like, yeah, I can see that because he's got full fucking UPS. Why has he made you behave like that? And you went, yeah, I don't know, but I got him a Christmas present too.

I did too. Yeah, a few beers, man. Yeah, it was funny. At the time, in my head, it wasn't funny or weird because it was just like— it was a reflexive response.

You were genuinely fucking enthralled.

I was like, oh brilliant, easier. There we go. Never mind you, fucking solid, mate. Never mind Kelly, you pulled me out of the shit.

He's never been like that with me. I said to Kelly, It was like, have you seen the Instagram reels of like pictures of my husband and I? And the husband's like— and then versus pictures with my husband, of my husband with a fish, and he's like this. That's how I felt. I was like, pictures of me and my best friend versus my best friend and the UPS guy. Can you get a picture with him?

Yeah, he's off on holiday. He's going to Benidorm, so I'll have to wait until he's back.

So I hear you text each other.

Yeah, we do, to be fair.

Can you give some context? Like, your relationship is purely through receiving deliveries from this guy. Yeah. And he's probably in your top 3 best friends.

Oh, easily, yeah. If not the top part. Yeah, it's only ever been good things, like. We had a bit of a chat about this, and we obviously— it's a funny fucking story. And then we were like, how the fuck has this happened? And then my— well, our theory indeed is that of classical conditioning.

I think you might be right.

So obviously, um, especially when we were back at the old center, UPS used to always deliver the Martin Systems orders.

Yeah.

Which I get excited about. I think it's a great product. I think I've probably ordered it for a very specific reason because I've got another dog, which for anyone listening is a, is a Highly sophisticated e-collar.

It's a great kit. It's what we both use with our personal dogs. And, uh, yeah, they're great. And they're good, like, marketing too. Like, they're always bringing out— like, they do a bit of an iPhone job, don't they?

Yeah, they do, to be fair. So, and they've got a lot of innovative little fucking trademarks and that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, go on.

So he was always the UPS guy that brought those?

Yes.

And then, so that kind of made me be like, oh brilliant, UPS here.

So you were like triggered by just seeing the van? Yeah, right. That's gonna— that's almost like your marker.

100%.

Yeah, right. Okay.

And then a couple of times— so he was also a Leeds fan.

Yeah.

So he would speak to me a bit when we got there, obviously exchange fucking pleasantries and that. He tells me about his diet that he's on. He's lost a couple of stone. He's doing well. Yeah. All right. What's his name?

Do you know?

Well, I know him. I know him as Benno.

Benno?

Yeah.

I think it might be Dave, but Benno is how we, how we, how we do it, right?

'Where do you want to— we're on a nickname basis. Maybe, mate.

Benno.' Oh, this is just fucking amazing. Yeah.

And then obviously there's been a couple of times where the center gate was locked or anything, and then he's gone a little bit above and beyond and been like, 'Mate, I've got this.' He's got my number. He's like, 'I've got this delivery on here. It's not due for delivery until whenever, but you want me to drop it off now?' And I'm like, 'Oh, brilliant. Yeah, please.' 'Oh, the gate's locked. Do you want me to fucking just leave, bring this back tomorrow?' Or, 'God.' He just goes a bit above and beyond.

It's a bit frosty between me and this guy, by the way. I think it's like a— you know when, like, if you ever went to uni and you bring, like, your home friends meet your uni friends? Like that.

He's sweating.

He's like, 'Fuck this guy.' Yeah, I'm just like, 'Right, mate.' He's like, 'Yep, fine.' And then I walk off and he's like, 'This again with you?' So yeah, me classically conditioned a little bit more. And also I could probably go one further, the whole dog training metaphor, but maybe two further. All right, all right, all right, further. Yeah, father. So how many times do you think you've met this guy?

I don't know, actually, I'd probably say sub-10 times, or maybe 10 times. Yeah, yeah.

So right, there you go. Just—

it's not— it's certainly not like 20 times. No, like, no way.

No. All right, okay. So yeah, I think how he delivers the reinforcer as well is important.

100%.

Yeah, he does it with pride.

Yeah, he does.

He's happy about his job. Yeah, he does it. It's not like some of these fucking idiots that come in and just lob, lob the fucking parcel down.

If we go like, conversely, we've had a couple of Every guys and a couple of DPD guys, we've almost ended up battering in the car park.

Yeah, and the Amazon guys, we regularly want to fight them. Yeah, they're fucking rude.

Although I did bring one Amazon guy in for a coffee one time when we were at this place because I felt sorry. Did you? Yeah, he was like, do you have any hot beverages? And I was like, oh yeah, you want a coffee or something? He was like, yeah. So I brought him.

Oh, that's quite nice.

Then Alicia had Chief out. He was absolutely terrified.

All right.

I was just like, mate, don't— whatever you do, touch that dog. I didn't— I kind of rubbed it in a bit and like, fair enough.

Yeah, so you would do it?

Yeah, it was funny. But you got his coffee out of it.

Um, so if we could rank the— every shit, they lose lots of parcels. Yeah, UPS is obviously fucking like S-tier, just absolutely gold medal. Yeah, hence Benno. Yeah, Benno, consistent too, is always that guy. Yeah, I think we do have a DPD guy, do we, who's consistently the same? Yeah, and then everyone else like on a rotational basis. Yeah, so we don't really get an opportunity to cultivate the same level of relationship.

Exactly, different, different stimuli each time.

Yeah. So, yeah, it's like how he delivers the reinforcer too, I think is really important, which we could maybe. Yeah. You know, with dogs, maybe we don't. Maybe there's something to say we can deliver. Yeah. And like be in our movement.

Yeah.

Bring energy to the picture. He does. He does.

He does.

He fucking, he does. To be fair, he like saunters on. He's always got a smile on his face.

He does.

That smile then widens exponentially when he sees you and vice versa.

Of course.

I'm a bit jealous, but like, it's funny. It makes a good—

put it aside just for the sake of this podcast.

Or maybe pick it up at a later date or something. Oh fuck, that is funny. And then one of the other things, sometimes he doesn't deliver, sometimes he just picks up.

Oh yeah, well, that— the day with, um, you're talking about, he was picking up with Boozer Kel. Yeah, it was just a pickup, was it? Pickup, yeah.

So you want to talk us through why sometimes not receiving the parcel might have actually increased your dopaminergic response?

Feel like my reinforcement may be intermittent. Hmm, maybe ever so slightly. That's only been a fairly recent thing though.

Well, yeah, you'd start consistent and then you'd start fading into it.

It's literally how it accidentally worked.

Yeah, you're gonna be fucking— you're gonna marry this guy, I think. I could, like, it could accidentally through reinforcement, he giving you the right stuff at the right time. Yeah, just like by chance, unless it's like a big fucking plan. Like, I'm not gonna leave him alone.

No, I can't.

You could be just so— yeah, like wired to want to be with him.

Yeah, I mean, if he loses like another stone, like, yeah, we know what situation is.

Fuck right now. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. So, you know, so I find that fascinating because I've never seen anything like—

I literally didn't think about it until you pointed out, but I think it's entirely right.

Me and Kelly were both like, yeah, gobsmacked.

Yeah, because you don't think about people being classically conditioned often, do you? Nah, you're just like, nah, we're too like—

but we do. Yeah, yeah, we do.

Obviously, sadly, like PTSD and stuff like that is obviously can be incredibly classically conditioned. But yeah, you don't often think of it in normal walks of life that we're getting conditioned to stuff.

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot to say about like, oh well, obviously social media, but like even ordering food off like Deliveroo and stuff like that, and then the doorbell being, yeah, yeah, you know, a signal and so on and so forth. Yes, you don't need to get into because I get boring, wouldn't it?

Yeah, but we've talked a bit about some fairly Incredible stuff though. I think we can go off.

Yeah, we're pretty covered. I was speaking to one of your students this week and they were like, I love the podcast, but my God, there's zero dog value, right? Yeah, yeah. But we've been explicit.

Zero?

No. Yeah, 1 to 2%. Does he—

sometimes you just gotta drill, right?

Yeah, that's true. And what, we're back to next week boot camp?

Yeah, yeah, big boot camp next week. Yep.

Yeah, a big one, isn't it?

Yeah. Nice.

All right, okay. You know, you got on the breeds yet or no?

No, I don't actually.

Tony normally, um, a lot of compliments about this place this week and it makes me feel very proud of the team, to be fair.

That's good.

One guy said it was the best week of his life. It was the Northern Irish guy. Yeah, they've just been bombing each other for the last fucking millennium, so probably a break from that.

Yeah.

A wee break from the IRE, eh? No, I don't know. Oh, it depends.

Yeah, well, Chloe's here, she can, she can, um, censor that if she needs to.

All bets are off at this point, right? Yeah, nice.

No, but you're right. Yeah, there's a few other people have been just like, oh, it's been mega, like, yeah, they've loved it.

We want to drag one on, but they're not here. No, so we might have lunch in fucking the void with waffle.

So, um, how did you feel the week went? Oh, it was absolutely fantastic. It was amazing. Most amazing one. Everybody should sign up. I believe that's what they would say.

So we made reference to you earlier in the podcast, right?

Yep.

But you fucked off to Hickory's and we're gonna put you on the podcast. But at least we're taking this opportunity right now to, to pull you in and ask you some questions.

Let's do it.

Who are you and where are you from?

Uh, my name's Harry Monaghan and I'm from Belfast.

And we're gonna maybe need subtitles for this interview, right?

Most likely, yes.

Unless someone from Northern Ireland— but to be fair though, even Chloe and Alex, who are both Northern Irish as well, yeah, it was like a different—

struggling.

It's like a different country.

Is it different dialect or what?

Yeah, the Belfast accent's very, very strong, as you can tell.

So you're from West Belfast too, right?

Yeah, West Belfast.

That's where like shit went down in it. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, back in the, back in the day.

Yeah. So have you had a good week? What about your experience, I guess?

Yeah, it was probably one of the best weeks of my life because I learned loads. And then the thing I was saying the other day too is, is like everyone here is very good at like teaching and putting things across. And then also they like to have a wee bit— now we call it crack. You used to call it banter, whatever you want to call it. But yes, I've had a great week, honestly. Would stay for 51 more if I could. Yeah, I wouldn't date.

Awesome, man. What do you currently do? You obviously have your own—

Yeah, yeah, I'm dog training at the minute, uh, back home. We've been doing it to be 5 years here in September.

Oh, awesome.

It was good to just come over because you always need to be teachable and learning things too. So yeah, it's been a great experience.

You're gonna try and get back over at some point and spend some more time here at the YCA?

Yeah. Definitely. Probably maybe do a boot camp or anything you get my hands on. Yeah, so definitely, definitely come back over here.

Uh, anything that like really stuck out to you in terms of like any of the teachings or even like how, uh, just the layout?

And then to be honest, that's why I'm saying it was so good. Everything, so from like the staff to the delivery to like actually doing the work, you learn so, so much. And then you're also in a great environment and everybody's friendly. It's, that's, that's what was actually a wee bit in disbelief, like, shock. It is exactly what it's supposed to be, honestly. Surreal. Awesome.

All right, that's perfect. Well, very nice to meet you. Absolute pleasure to have you. It's been good crack having you around. Planting a crack on the podcast earlier today. Planting some seeds.

Planting for everything I've said. It's a wonderful day. They just keep breaking up me going, what? Never repeated myself more in my fucking life. I just gotta start fucking things like, what, here, just read that. I'm not like wasting my time.

Oh, that's fucking amazing.

And they'll talk real slow for you as well, right?

Yeah, it's like we're like the reverse.

So they're like, yeah, I think I had a good week.

I don't have the patience. I'm waiting for any sentence.

They're like, come on, get going, get it out. Oh, class, man. Oh, that's awesome. Thanks so much.

Come on.

Do you know what was actually good? The way you actually got them to coach each other and actually have a dig at— because obviously that's a massive component of it, isn't it?

Took a lot of squeezing out of them. Yeah, it would be pointless them just watching me do it, right?

Yeah, yeah, you're totally right, which I thought was really good. And we've bounced back and forth some ideas how to make it even more immersive next time, right? In terms of like, the next one will be just an ever so slight better, and the next one a bit better, and it'll be more expensive too.

So I think it already is. Yeah, it is.

Yeah. Um, but yeah, because to be fair, like, this was the first time we did it in that format, right? Because you've done Dev Weeks before, we've done online programs before, but we've decided to merge them together to try and—

because that was like, worked really well though, because they came with a, with ideas, even like the exercises that they might be looking at, but putting them into practice. You could tell like the first couple of days when they're trying to instruct a member of the public through it and realizing the problems that you hit I think they were just like, oh fuck, actually it's not— the concepts are easy, but delivering those concepts, not necessarily so easy. So it's been, it's been invaluable, I think.

I think it was Einstein that said a true genius takes complex topics and is able to explain them to—

I think that's exactly what he said. I believe that's what he said.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I believe it was.

So there you go, congratulations.

You've cracked it yet again.

Never mind the equals MC squared or whatever it is.

Yeah, we— so we've got a couple of— to, to make sure we're not— we weren't rushing things with the podcast, we filmed like a batch of 3 or 4 episodes to create like a bit of a bank account of podcasts. So then we do film one every single week, um, but just in case anything comes up, we've just got the bank account. So we've got like a delay, right? So the one we like released, I don't know, or will release tonight or yesterday or whatever, um, it's a few weeks old. But so you wouldn't have heard— heard—

totally fucking lost now.

Sorry, I didn't explain it well. Einstein would Disgusting. Cookie, we filming. We talky. Susie, film me. Susie, put YouTube. Sometimes we busy, so sometimes film 4 podcasts one day. Okay, so when we busy, they got podcast to post. Oh, nice. Yeah. Okay, podcast post tonight. from a few weeks ago.

It's like someone discovering the wheel.

Roller!

Ooh! Oh, for fuck's sake! Remember that time you got me a big symbol back and forth? I get it, I see it now. Yeah, fair enough. Oh, okay.

But anyway, my point was, the one we filmed last time that we've not had out yet. Yep. Well, actually last week, which will be posted a few weeks from now. Okay, I'm okay. That's just inside my head. Perfect ear pops of turkey spray. Oh, fuck me, that's funny. Um, yeah, basically it was so funny I had abdoms like 2 days after. Oh nice. So like 2 full days.

Amazing.

Bucking in stitches. I can't remember what it was, um, but yeah, part of it was Mbop and Hanson and— but anyway, you'll know by now if you're listening to this one because you're well into the future.

Oh, okay, so actually we need to say that, you know, the one you listened to a couple weeks ago.

Yeah, yeah, that's true actually. Yeah, good point. Maybe I'm the fucking symbol-bashing monkey. Oh yeah, oh yeah, that is funny. Yeah, it is funny.

All right then, are you going for the rest of the day then? Oh, you're, you're doing us the honor of speaking to the dev folk.

Yep.

About the transition and the sustainability of what you do. For me, that's an important part.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. So I'm going to talk about like why they just need to treat their business as a business and make sure like they understand that them being able to monetize their passion will allow them to maintain their passion.

Yeah, perfect. Perfect.

And you're not helping anyone when you burn out, or I say you're not going to help anyone from behind the desk because you've burnt out, you know.

Yeah.

Um, so yeah, I won't talk too much to that point right now, but, um, I'll switch modes and, and, and go in there and do the thing.

You do a good job of that, to be fair. What, your mode switching thing?

Yeah.

So even like on the podcast, some people sometimes will see it. Some people, some people sometimes will see you, you just go black out for a minute and then you go, and everyone's like, oh, I know something about dog training.

And then you just start cracking gags and being, oh, it's just such a shame, isn't it? It's such a shame. I've actually got a space in my bank account which says Poppy's Extortion Fund for when it comes, when she releases the files. Yeah, release the caffeine and canines file.

I should maybe start a slightly smaller version of that. Yeah, yours needs to be really big. Mine needs to be middling. I'm okay, but yeah, okay. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, fair enough.

We let the students get bit by Starkey as well. Oh yeah, which was interesting.

With a suit on.

With a suit on. Yeah, we'll throw some pics and vids up. Um, more people wanted to do it than I thought.

Yeah, I think pretty much everyone did.

Yeah. Yeah, nigh on. So he had a great day of that. The reason I just wanted him to experience that is— and they all said the same thing— the level of intensity of being that close to that dog. Yeah, because like, it's only until the very last second he switches from looking at you in the eyes. Yeah, to your arm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So they're all like walking in and you can literally feel them like, oh, I don't know about this. And then when he hits them, obviously with a decent amount of velocity, um, it one of the girls was saying like, oh, I was shaking for like 30 minutes after.

Yeah, that's wild, isn't it?

And, um, well, we'll treat it as an inoculation.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, I don't think you'll ever replicate the real thing, but although, yeah, you get bit on a sleeve for the first time and the dog catches you in a particular area, like, it does actually, you know, that like a little bit of a feeling like when you fall in a dream. It does kind of get you a little bit like that, to be fair. And then when you do get bit for real, you have a similar feeling, right? I like—

not so much these days. It's happened so many times, I'm just like, oh yeah, he's gonna be again. Look, oh, he's got my blood on the floor. Yeah, it is. That was good.

The Mutt Nut joined us again. Yeah, there was a couple of people exceptionally excited to meet the Mutt Nut. Yeah, surprising little cameo.

Surprisingly?

No, no, I don't think he meant that.

He's going on a bit now.

Yeah, he is a good guy, but that's funny. Yeah, no. That is funny. Yeah, surprisingly, I don't see it. I don't know what they see in him. I rate them a lot, mate. I really, really know. Yeah, when I think about him and Lenny, I actually like tear up and shit. It's actually crazy. He sends me videos of them doing stuff together and it's like genuinely one of my like highlights of my life that I, I made that.

Yeah, nice.

I mean, like, I just find it exceptional.

I was like mildly not nervous because I'm not soft But when we went to Australia, because I really know him that well, yeah, as much as you, I was like, fucking hell, I gotta spend 2 weeks with this motherfucker. There's a chance I'll kill him.

Nah, well, actually, no, he's so laid back. It's crazy.

Do anything for him now. Yeah, great bloke.

Yeah, same when we went to America. We've been anywhere else with him? Yeah, he would have gone down to trial. Yep. America, obviously Australia. Mate, you— I've never seen that guy flap ever in the slightest or even like change his emotional state. It's actually exceptional, like the level of— like what's really admirable about him is like just a level of composure he has at all times. It's nuts. So yeah, fuck him, we're not gonna blow any more smoke up his ass. No, it's phenomenal physique. It's a fucking good chest and arms, mate.

It's just his chest. It's his chest.

He's got big arms too.

Yeah, but anyone can get big arms.

I can't. I've never in my life, in all of my gym eras, I've never had big arms. It's fucking awful.

His pecs is like enviable. Yeah, like I often lay there at night thinking, how do I, how do I get pecs like that?

If I train like that, I just get strong. I don't get big. It's fucking annoying. Yeah, and then my joints fail. Like, if I were, if I were to get to Mutnut size, yeah, I'd have to bench 300 kilos. I've got like the worst genetics if, if I wanted to be like a bodybuilder. Yeah, but I do get really strong really quick and like, well, what we'll see tomorrow, won't we? Yeah, we will actually.

That's a good point. That is a good performance-based— yeah, which we'll see tomorrow.

Yep.

By the same though, so like if I do, if I try and get a bigger chest, no matter what like niche little fucking pre-fatigue silly fucking bollocks exercises I do, everything else just gets bigger first. So then it just looks the same anyway. Even if it made marginal gains, everything else overshadows my tits.

It is annoying, isn't it?

Yeah.

What about pec deck machine?

Yeah, tried it, hammered it, did loads of it. Just won't.

So, man, that's just lucky really, then, isn't it?

There's probably a genetic element there, isn't it? Yeah, because his legs are—

nah, his legs are decent, to be fair. No, they're not terrible.

Not terrible.

I'm not gonna have you, but they're nice. No, his tits are just ridiculously disproportionate to everything, but like, you wouldn't mind.

Probably a genetic thing.

Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't mind, like, disproportionate to have a fucking—

yeah, yeah. My God, he looks like a good— in a tight—

my mouth's watering again. What's going on?

I joking, I joking.

So yeah, oh yeah, rugby debut tomorrow.

Yeah, this would be brilliant.

It's been a long time coming. It actually started in Australia, this whole thing. Yeah, we were just sat in a random pub.

Yes.

And there was rugby league on the TV.

Yeah.

And we had a long day. I was just like not bothered really to speak anymore. So I sat there with my CC and dry and just like sat and was watching rugby.

Yeah.

I was like— and then for whatever reason, that particular game was, was enthralling. And I was like, oh, okay. And then we went back and we just started like watching it more during that holiday. And then It was like coming up to finals, and then when we were home, it was like semi and finals happening. So I was like, oh yeah, fuck it, I'm gonna watch them as well.

Did you buy a bit of memorabilia over there though? A pair, a couple pairs of socks or something?

I did indeed.

Yeah, yeah, that was always—

it was a little seed. Yeah, it was a little seed.

Switched side.

And then, yeah, I watched the finals and I was like, I want to play rugby again. And then I went and looked for local teams. There's one just down the road from me. Started going to training. We've had 2 games— we've not played a game yet. We've had 2 games canceled though. Yeah, I know. I was trying to build up like crazy, crazy buildup.

Yep.

And nilch, nothing happened.

No.

But tomorrow—

you dealt with that mentally really well. Like, if that had happened to me, I would have had to have done something. I would have needed something.

Just a blowout. I just went to the gym instead. Is that what you mean?

Yeah, not quite the same, is it?

Nah. No, I'm very excited. I've promised you I'm going to put 10 out of 10 effort in just to give us a good day no matter what.

Be there, whether it's Susie coming to video a bit. Yeah, if you give me a vlog today.

Yeah, I'll show up to an amateur rugby league game with my own personal photographer. It's very you. It is quite amazing. I'm not gonna deny it's not. There's someone put in the group, does anyone know a photographer for tomorrow? And I'm literally like Not technically a photographer, and I don't really share, uh, but it's like you might be captured in the background of my shots.

It's more of a personal thing, so if you're okay with that, I'm sure you probably would be, then yeah, by the way.

Yeah, that's funny.

Yeah, I'm excited for you. I'm excited to come and watch, to be honest. I haven't watched a game of rugby league since I retired.

No.

Yeah, you know.

Yeah, it's like the first time I played in like 8 or 9 years. I was trying to do the math the other day, which is just crazy.

Yeah, it's like riding a bike, wouldn't it?

Yeah, it'd be fun. Yeah, be fun. Been training well, but you never really know until—

no, of course not.

You just run it straight into someone. That's what I want to do. I'm just gonna like, the first opportunity I get, I think I'm just gonna run really hard into someone.

Nice.

Either knock myself out or bowl them over, but either way, you feel better after.

Yeah.

Either don't know about it or— amazing. So yeah, right, looks like the students aren't going to be joining us because no hickories filling up fat fucking faces.

Yeah, do you know, they, they, um, they agreed to a challenge, like an eating one.

The hickories?

No, the bumble challenge.

Put a harness on him.

Well, take the harness off.

Oh yeah, that's it.

Yeah, who did?

That's crazy. I wouldn't.

No, I wouldn't. I don't use a harness with him at all anymore. It's crazy.

Yeah, just so— why?

Who? I was just like looking for on Friday. If you really want to test your minerals, test your minerals, like I got a challenge. It's not gonna like deform you, but it'll change you.

All right, yeah, I've got no interest in that. I don't really— I don't really like the whole getting bit in the suit stuff. No interest in that either. It hurts, doesn't it? But Matt Nutt gets off on it. Weirdo. Yeah, yeah, don't want to be chinned by dogs, really. No, it's just the last thing you want to be doing.

And yet it's kind of good when you— when they try and they don't.

What do you mean?

It's reinforcing, isn't it?

Well, when you swerve one.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, when you ninjutsu and duck out the way. Yeah, yeah, had a few of them, but that's where— yeah, that's a good thing. There's no fucking— there's no noblesse oblige in getting chinned.

No, I mean, I told the story yesterday, the last time I got chinned, I was gutted about it, but not necessarily for me because I heal incredibly quickly, especially when I fucking inject copper into my arms.

There you go.

Which is a bit weird, but it healed in 4 days. That was wild. Yeah, but I feel a bit good for the dog because like I let him down.

Yeah, you did. So yeah, you did, because there's no— there's no good thing that happens out of a bite other than the dog learning one step closer to dead, aren't they?

Exactly. Yes, really.

It's not me trying to make you feel guilty, it's just letting the audience know to put their egos aside.

Like, you couldn't make me feel any more guilty.

I truly just twisted the knife.

Like, fucking—

yeah, yeah, I hope he's still with us anyway.

That was— yeah, okay, I do feel more guilty now.

Yeah, but we've all made like these mistakes. There's fucking plenty of mistakes. I probably made more mistakes for you and then you avoided some because of me, and the next people will avoid some because of you. And hopefully we can just keep fucking learning without deepening it too much. But you know, that's why— part of the reason we put this podcast out there, to a degree. Yeah, you definitely don't want to get bit.

Some shit has happened.

Yeah, some shit you'd go back and do differently, 100%. 100%. But like, fucking, oh, what can you do, you know? So yeah, um, you can wrap it up there, I guess. Yeah, okay, there you go. Leave you with some food. Yeah, it's a bit—

I'll see some more of this tiramisu here.

Yeah, and just imagine Kirkie and the UPS guy. In fact, we'll just throw a picture up. Yeah, do anything nowadays. We'll throw a picture up from just recently where Kirkie and the UPS guy were sharing tiramisu in like a Lady and the Tramp kind of format. So There you go. Hopefully that should just add a sprinkle of positive on the back end of quite a morbid fucking horrible somber— on the end there. Yeah, yeah. All right then, well, we'll wrap it up. Thank you for joining us. I've got to apparently do a vlog now just so she can come take photos of me in shorts.

Mini, mini shorts. They will be as well. That wasn't a slip of the tongue, that was an actual thing.

Okay, he's like, oh, I'm the change rooms, you hang the shorts. I'll just be like, right, no, no, yeah. That's hilarious. In fact, by the time this podcast's out, there might even be a picture of me somewhere in my kit.

Yeah, you could be a couple of games deep by the time the podcast—

yeah, so, or just like in one of those stretches. Yeah, next podcast I'm just in a neck brace. Like a full, full fucking plaster.

Those bars that like—

yeah, it didn't go good. Did not dominate. I ran, I did the thing, I ran to the biggest guy. Didn't go well. I'll stick to dogs in the podcast, I think. Yeah, that's funny. Right, anyway, thanks for joining us. We'll see you in the next one. Say bye, Ian.

Bye, Ian.