EP 88: The Truth About Aversives (Stop Dancing Around The Problem)

German?

I'm gonna struggle, right?

I thought you could like drape that around you.

Just fucking holding it for the full podcast.

It's no longer ice cream, it's just a cup of cream at the end.

You ever watch the footy show in America?

Nah.

Australia?

I've seen bits of it, yeah, clips of it, yeah.

Because they do like a little guest spot, right? And, um, this guy went around this other bloke's house, and the bloke had one arm. Um, it was fucking— obviously he's mooching around with one arm. And, uh, old mate gives him a fucking— he's like, do you want a cup of tea? And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, please. And he goes, sound. He gives him a cup of tea, but gives it on a fucking saucer. They're doing a house tour, so they're moving around. We'll throw the clip up.

The clip will be something. Oh, fuck.

Tap your mic. Oh yeah, don't touch that. Don't touch that bar.

Fucking hell. The amount of money that's made in this place, you've got a fucking old microphone.

Yeah, true.

You better fucking not have. Well, we finally fucking bent our schedule around enough to get the nut nut on.

Yeah.

Completely different time than we normally would. Yeah, because he had, um, what's it called, pre—

what'd you have?

You had shit to do, basically.

Yeah, in a 40-minute hour of work, I like to call it.

Fair enough.

Um, no tiramisu today, but we've just gone in the ice cream fridge, YCA's official ice cream fridge.

Häagen-Dazs.

Found some mini Häagen-Dazs pots.

Wasn't it?

Yeah.

Can only look at that. It's one hand.

I'll wait till this melts a bit.

I'm almost through mine and then I'll hold your mic. Oh, fuck. I'll sub in for you.

Hold his mic?

I'm a big boy, don't worry about it.

Maybe you could be bigger if you had that ice cream.

Yeah, that is true. I'll wait till it melts a bit and then I can one-hand it, no problem.

I'd like to know why you went and got yourself spoons but not me.

Crocodile Dundee over there.

You looked like you were fucking doing fine.

To be fair, yeah. Yeah, you're almost finished.

What would be the point of dirtying a spoon for a man who's incapable? Did you know Roald Dahl's dad invented the spork?

Yeah, that makes sense.

Because he only had one arm. That's not a joke.

Alright.

It sounded like I delivered it like the punchline to a joke, didn't it? He literally sharpened— no, it must have been like a fork knife, like a fife, as opposed to anything else. He sharpened the edge.

Yeah, that makes— yeah.

Lots of one-arm references today.

It has become the spork, hasn't it?

No, 'cause that's spoon and a fork. But this was a fork and a knife. A snife.

Ah, so you've played knifey spoony before?

Mm-hmm. Do we know anyone else who's frickin' one-arm or what?

I'll block with one eye.

No?

No?

No, it's safe, mate. Yeah. Big Baz McDermott. Oh yeah, Big Baz.

Yeah. You're an Irishman, aren't you? Yeah. He did alright.

He had a glass eye.

He fucking dominated, if anything.

Which brings us back to Roald Dahl. I think one of the Twitches had a glass eye, didn't he not? Mr. Twitch, I believe, had a glass eye.

Anyway, big Roald Dahl fan, aren't you?

Massive Roald Dahl. My dad went to the same school as Roald Dahl. That might be why.

Nice.

No, no, but your dad, Roald Dahl. All right, yeah, fair enough.

You know, you've read Danny, the Champion of the World? It's about pheasants. You'd love it.

Oh yeah, I've read that. Yeah, yeah, soaking raisins and that.

You've also got BFG.

Yeah.

The witches, twits.

I took a lovely picture of a female pheasant on a wall the other day.

Matilda. He's undefeated, really. We're creative. Have you finished your ice cream? Oh yeah, you've not even started yours.

Ah, join me to hold the mic. Oh, it's cool, man. I was drinking all the ice cream.

Spoon feed. I think we've got a theme.

Yeah, it's where I'm at.

I've had a client's Tiramisu via hand. Yeah, on the podcast last week, and we're just trying to still deliberate whether it's appropriate or not.

By a spoon, not a hand, because that might have gone too far.

And then you go, well, she was sat next to her husband, so I don't know. What brings you up this way then, Schmooze?

Uh, I mean, technically you invited me, but, um, we're up here with the boot camp this week, my own boot camp. Yeah, yeah, so we came to tag along.

What dog was it?

Of course, some chaos. Um, Spaniel, working.

Yeah, obviously, obviously.

Yeah, he's very, very driving, but he's a good boy.

Yeah, nice.

Recall, loose lead, and not being a twat around dogs. Fair enough. Lovely dogs. Lovely dog, to be fair. Just would get on the dogs, give them a full MLT and service. Yeah, fair enough. But like, would get smashed off dogs and just not take it as a sign to get off.

Berkey's got a very interesting fact about that, and it was new information to me, but makes sense. Yeah? Say it, mate.

Go on. I don't know what you're alluding to.

What you told me yesterday on the benches.

Oh, it was just a postulation, really.

Which I think is a—

A thought.

My favourite postulation is Orion's Belt. Or the Taurus.

A hypothesis, if you will.

That's a constellation.

Well then. So I think—

What, is it made up? You made it up?

No, so like— I think, I'm pretty sure it was Jay Jackway I heard it about. You mean the yes and the no thing?

Yes, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so like humans assume a no. And await a yes, and dogs assume a yes and await a no.

Surely ours is a cultural thing that's happened over time.

Yeah, well, potentially, but primitive version of us. Yeah, maybe not. Yeah, maybe a bit more back in my day, it was probably just like, no, that's unless you're Owen.

You assume a yes and await a no.

That's— he did that earlier on with some electrolytes in there and I called him out on it.

Yeah, what are you, a fucking chimp? Yeah, he said, you're gonna fucking ask for that, what are you, a fucking aardvark?

And then Someone said, it might have been Chloe, like, they never do. And I was like, well, you should fucking recommend them, man. You should give them that. No, there you go.

Here's one of the hardest dogs we've ever fucking trained.

Yeah, but he walked past without hoofing.

Maybe we'll talk about him later. Yeah, be fair enough.

Um, but the, but that led me to then think, so basically it's like, okay, because dogs have to learn by association, they'll try a thing and they'll find out they can't do the thing.

Yes.

Whereas we'll be like, all right, if I want to come and take your seat, I'll sit next to you on that. It was the bench example, wasn't it? Like the picnic table. Can I come and sit right uncomfortably next to you because there's no seats? I'm gonna like ask if I can, assume not until given the passage. Whereas dogs will just like steam into that seat, and then if the other dog says no, they might take heed of it, they might not do, but then they'll compete out, and then and then see what happens after that.

Do you mean that's all dogs though, yeah?

No.

Do you think some dogs assume a no?

Yeah.

And wait for a play bow?

Yep. Probably comes down to other socialise and a little bit of, like, genetics as well, innit?

Yes.

Like, Rhea assumes yes with everything. She's just an idiot. She's got no, like— conceptual space, spatial awareness, nothing.

Space-time continuum.

Like, things don't exist. She's just, yeah, the space-time continuum. Whereas Blue, if someone's in a seat, he ain't jumping on that seat, even though he's not been told no before.

All right then, there you go. Some interesting shit about dogs. Matt, that's got a theme for us today, unfortunately.

Have you? Yeah. Cool. Are you smirking as well?

He has. No, he's literally been telling us when to fucking do the podcast. Yeah, that was a bit off, wasn't it? What time, what to eat on the podcast, and now what the podcast is about. Can we go back to episode 1 of The Mutt Nut? Very different. I don't know what we've created here. We have a monster.

What's that coming over the hill?

He's got one of those little desks in the back room with the light bulbs around it.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

He had 4 cameras on him the other night, mate.

That's not a lie.

It's my record.

Like, you embellish a fact every now and again.

Oh yeah, it's factual.

Yeah, 3 SLRs and a phone. I saw them.

Yeah, there you go. Sorry, are you working in there? Doing some street art.

All right, fair enough.

Come on then, give us the theme of today's podcast.

It's just a suggestion, mate, but after our chat the other day—

A suggestion?

Go on then. No, it's only out for like 3 weeks.

Yeah, and nah, still no.

Oh, go on.

Nah, no one gives a shit.

No, we all care.

No, it's funny. Go on.

No, it's not funny. It's like, it could be great.

I'm gonna leave it for now.

Whisper it to Koki.

I'll tell Koki, obviously.

But whisper it now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, just don't put it out. That's fact. But, uh, Mrs. Mucknuts, yeah, pregnant.

Yeah, nice.

Hey, Hans, you calling it? Jacob!

Yeah!

That's Hans! Leave it in, leave it in.

No, don't leave it in.

Leave it in.

No one gives a fuck. I'm not asked about people.

They do.

They do care. Yeah, they care.

Does he care?

Still quite early though, innit? Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

12 weeks in, bro.

Yeah, 12 weeks is— what is it, 12 weeks?

I think we're now 14 weeks. She knows you now, but on the podcast.

Yeah, yeah, that'd be it.

Yeah, go on. Babe, I'm on the podcast. Jacob's pulling my arm, like trying to twist my arm to tell everyone about my baby.

Nah, I don't really want to ask about people knowing.

Oh, go on then, just give her a call.

Yeah, but people will care about that because they know you're a good bloke.

Yeah, they do.

So they'll be dropping—

Yeah, baby, no. What doesn't that start as? A seed.

Mudseed.

Yeah, the nut, the nut, nut. English.

I feel like I'm fucking Who Wants to Be a Millionaire.

Phone a friend.

Hi babe. Hello babe, you okay?

Say hello from me, Si. How is she?

I'm on the fucking podcast with these two tits and Jacob wanted me to ring you.

Oh, there he goes.

Um, because you know, like I told him the news the other day He's asking, can I say it or not on the podcast? I said no.

Yeah, she say yeah.

3 weeks.

All right, come on.

She will. Is it generally 3 weeks away?

So we're, um, now 2 No, it will be.

Yeah, it'll be 3 weeks.

2 weeks.

All right, we could always push it back. Yeah, let's do that. 3 weeks, babe.

So we can leave all this in.

I don't know, I said that. I said the same. I said no one gives a shit, but these are all buzzing.

So we are buzzing.

We've got 3 weeks to think about it. I'll just say it and let it out.

If not There you are.

Yeah, who wants to be a millionaire?

Yeah, I don't know, I said that.

No one gives a shit.

Everyone gives a shit.

Literally everyone gives a shit.

So there you go.

Jacob Ian Kirky Moody.

Brilliant.

Jacob Ian Michael Ellis Moody.

Brent.

Right, babe, sorry, I'll let you go.

I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.

Jacob pulls in nature booty. All right, babe, he's sweating. You're scared of her? Yeah, you're fucking sweating.

She's a flappy woman when it comes to health shit.

Oh, well, fair enough.

Yeah, anyway, that wasn't the fucking topic for the podcast.

Fucking two fine specimens like you two, like, yeah, yeah, you can only assume it's gonna be a gorgeous baby, physically dominating most things.

You're not worried he's going to be a bit short?

Yeah, I thought you were going to say a bit shit then.

No, no, do you know if it's like a good—

angry, won't it?

We'll find out.

Yeah, yeah, we're going to find out. But the plan is then to just imply it with fucking steak and eggs.

He said he's going to do a gender reveal too. I did not say that.

That makes sense.

Can we do a gender reveal on the podcast?

Absolutely not.

Just for the sake of the podcast. I was fucking—

he said the other day, he said the other day, he said the other day you're going to have, uh, gender I was genuinely insulted the fact that you asked me if I would fucking have one of them. When people— oh, it's not for me.

We'll pay for it.

I won't be coming.

We'll get the balloons. Can we have one on for you then? If you text Susie, "What are the regenderisms, but don't tell us." Can we please? Yeah, we'll have them on. Amazing. And we know if we're gonna have a niece or a nephew. Yes, that's a great idea. You dig into it and it comes out. Pink or blue. Perfect.

Oh, that's exciting.

Fucking hell, gimme some ice cream.

Gimme some ice cream.

That's amazing.

That wasn't the fucking topic.

Yes, it was.

What wasn't? You were trying to play it cool and then—

No one gives a shit if we've with child.

Mutton up with thy child.

Do you know what, I do find a strange saying. When people say we're pregnant. Yeah, it pickles my head. It doesn't—

I didn't say that, but did I?

No, I know you didn't, but people do say that. We can probably AI that in that you did.

Yeah, great news, boys, me and Brook, we're pregnant.

It just doesn't, it doesn't compute in my head. I don't know how it mechanically works.

No, you can't get pregnant. No, technically, if you have a shaft.

Yeah, that works though.

Yeah, congrats. That's the fucking most exciting thing about it. You're shooting fucking solids.

Oh yeah.

Nice. Did you take any subs, any zinc?

Was there any doubt in that though, really?

No, not for me. You're not shooting solids. Fucking, we're doomed really, aren't we?

Yeah, yeah.

Do you think like she's gonna have dog training powers now?

Who, bro?

You've definitely not.

No, Olive's a fucking shambles.

But now she's bear with thy half you inside her.

She has DNA and fucking Voldemort with like, uh, yeah, yeah, when he's attached to that bloke. Yeah, but the other way.

Yeah, in a good way, in a good way, in a good way, in a positive way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is this mic too close?

Am I going to be—

no, technical.

I'm fucking snogging the mic.

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe.

I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, he's still green. You're good. Yeah, I'm still green. Well, that's— I wasn't expecting that. No, until you said news, and I was—

weren't you?

Well, I knew.

I almost told everyone at Hickory's. Yeah, you should have told me. I'm so excited about it. Yeah, yeah, that's like— I haven't told anyone.

Oh, he's on a borderline with just how leaky he is.

Yeah, yeah.

So if you—

I'm not sure I believe that, but have you not told anyone? No.

If you want—

swear to God, why the fuck— what you said, don't tell anyone, so I didn't.

If you ever want like everyone to know, tell Pabs. If you want everyone to know minus maybe one person, tell him.

I tell him everything in the world. Did I tell you?

No.

Fair enough.

No, no, no, you did. 100%. But I was going to peer pressure you to tell him as soon as— Yeah, I was— because I couldn't help it. I was on the brink. See, people care.

Yeah, they do.

Not that way inclined.

What?

Like, that's why I won't do a gender reveal. I'd eat the tiramisu.

Oh, brilliant. I'm so excited for that.

That's ace. When can you find out the gender?

It's a bit yet, like 20 weeks, I think.

Imagine if it's his child though, you're gonna know way earlier than that.

Yeah, because it's gonna be— it's fucking hot.

He's quite a big fucker.

They're gonna be like, normally you can't tell at this point. I was 10 pounds.

How big were you as a kid? As a baby, sorry.

Not large.

25 kilos.

10-pound bit.

Like a decent marlin. Like a tuna.

He had to call Black and Decker in to fucking get it out of his mouth. This one really sounds like fire brigade. This one really surprised you, mate, it was so mature. Were you spindly?

I was like 7 pounds or something.

Mate, can we ever put the chicken photo on the podcast? Oh no, because if like we've done me shitting myself and everything.

We haven't seen you shit yourself. If we see you—

Can you show me the chicken photo now? Just—

I don't know where I've got it, but nah, because it'll take me ages, but I won't do it now, but I'll do it afterwards, obviously. I'll find it. If it has to go up for the good of the universe, mate, it's quite literally the best thing you've ever seen.

Without like— you'll even say it yourself, it's Yeah, it's fricking wild. Like, absolutely wild.

Fucking weird things running through my head now.

It's a young Ian Kirk in a chicken suit.

Oh, that's not what I thought.

Okay. But I can't even give it— He's only ever sent it to me a few once and a few times, and there's just nothing you can do. You can't get it. But that would be everywhere. I'd just have a fucking billboard of it coming into YCA. Just as you come in, just fucking big arrow, YCA this way.

All right.

Yeah, so there you go.

Yeah, all right, all right.

Do you want to do the actual topic now? You can't stop, stop waffling about your fucking baby daddy.

Yeah, now we were chatting over there.

Do you feel different?

Do you feel more dad-like?

Yeah, it is weird. I'm just going to put this in my mouth. Um, yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's quite cool.

The Matt Daddy. You're gonna change it?

Oh yeah, Matt Daddy.

Like, give that dog daddy for—

start wearing Versace, swinging down, smacking them up.

Yeah, uh, no, no, I mean, yeah, I do feel—

but do you think if you stayed a force-free trainer you would have been able to conceive?

Because I don't think so.

Yeah, I heard he was trying from that.

Yeah, yeah, from that time, and it just never— and then he used his first e-collar and then— yeah, that's it. Seeded.

Yeah, maybe.

Maybe. Anyway, go on, get your topic out. You keep interrupting me. Spit it out, mate.

We were chatting the other day about the aversives of life, weren't we?

Yes. Oh, that's deep.

Yeah, like life's aversive as a whole.

No, it's like—

end it now then. Don't have your baby, mate.

End the podcast. Just black.

What are you doing? At least share them.

Yeah, just fucking noisy, noisy Rummaging away.

Thanks, mate.

Yeah, as in like kicking batteries. He's all right. Yeah, he's good.

He's a good man. He's a good lad.

You're welcome. Yeah. Can you fit one of them through your gap on that? Can you try?

He was in the bucket for a while with me, like.

Oh yeah, started off from the bucket.

He did.

Yeah, but not many people scraped back from that, to be fair.

He's a good lad.

It's got a bit of attitude, but it's kind of entertaining.

Yeah, I've got a decent dog.

Does have a decent dog called Tina. Right, get your fucking topic out of the way, come on. What do you mean?

Oh, well, come on then.

Come on then, said it.

Sounds deep.

Versus of life.

And just full stop.

Yeah. Just chatting about the idea of, you know, war and peace. The adversity of life will always come, whether it's health, medical, relationships, job, money.

But fuck no, you must just be taking off your shit.

Can we say about that on the podcast?

You just did. There you go.

I don't think you can edit it out. You're in two very different situations, aren't you? Yeah, your situation's nice. What's not so nice? And I'm an in-betweenie. Just, yeah, it's like the three monkeys. Yeah, speak no evil, have thy baby, lose thy money.

Well, we're just obviously talking about people putting things off, making bigger problems because you want to avoid an aversive, and how like that comes into like your daily habits and what you're doing and what you're asking of yourself. And yeah, I was chatting with some mentees of mine the other day where they're all very motivated and a lot of it comes through the fact that they've had a fair amount of aversive or could— you know, you could argue it's aversive and then it pushes them into another direction of like they're just hungry bastards is what I'm saying.

All right.

And does how obviously he makes his mentees wake up at 6 AM for meals to set a good precedent? You should do that. Good enough earlier. Yeah, yeah, one minute to six, five AM.

All right, fine.

Yeah, but sets the tone.

Say thanks to the mat nut.

Yeah, you're welcome. But yeah, it just sets the tone of get up.

Yep, I'm up at 5, so I'm up at 4:55.

Get up, get on it.

I don't go to sleep.

That's true, to be fair.

You literally didn't fucking sleep in Australia. Yeah, last time I was on the podcast, we were sat on that lovely balcony. Oh yeah, that was cool.

It's not bad today though.

I mean, this is pretty cool, don't get me wrong, but like That was 7 and a half.

That was the best day of my life.

We were having some serious drinks.

We should have all— not you, mate, not you, you got something to live for. Yeah, but we should have. Yeah, because it peaked, didn't it?

To be fair, if I had gone in the sea that day, it wouldn't have been that bad.

You could have too.

Yeah, anyway, about some of the issues of life, that would have been a serious one.

Yeah, yeah.

But my point being, like, how it relates to dogs and our daily habits and our holding of —All right, here you go then. —of, like, you know, standards of things and how that relates to— yeah.

I'm reading a very good book at the moment, and it's called Resilience. It's by a bloke called Eric Greteens. And it's a montage of letters to a mentee of his that has returned from Afghanistan and is suffering with PTSD. His wife's left him, taken the kids, and he's on the brink of, unfortunately, taking his own life. And obviously, the book, as it sounds, is about resilience and talks about how resilience is like the number one virtue of life. And in regards to your circumstances, regardless of how fortunate you are, if you lack resilience to be able to deal with inevitable adversities of life, you will never be happy because if you will just pedestal problems regardless. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Um, the whole book is about becoming more tolerant to pressure, um, to like the nth degree. Um, it's an exceptional read. I've read it 3 times now. Oh, this would be my 3rd time round. I'd highly recommend for anyone watching this to read it.

I'd highly recommend for you to read it regardless.

Um, the words inside the book are profound. It makes you think about life differently once you have read it. And yeah, just make you a mental— mentally tough bastard, I think, regardless. If it's obviously— it's about like Two former, you know, blokes that were in the military, so it might, you know, not appeal to everyone, but the lessons in it are very good. It leans heavily on philosophy and stoicism too. Yeah, and it's, uh, prolit— it's just, it's heavy. It's very heavy. But like, yeah, I've never really had any sort of, um, anything, any sort of media in any way, shape, or form, movies or otherwise, like fucking physically move me like that. It's pretty crazy. I know, it's crazy. So anyone listening to this, I'd highly recommend you give it a read, especially if you're going through shit in life. But yeah, essentially back to what you were saying, it can help you cope. It's a reframe on perspective to help you cope better with aversives, with the fact in mind that aversives are inevitable. And if you just put the small problems of life on a big pedestal, when life does come along and rock you Um, I'm speaking to so many people at the moment that are going through like various issues, whether it's fucking partners leaving them or someone getting sick or unfortunately someone dying and stuff like that. And it's fucking just— again, it's awful. And it's just derailing people left, right, and center, and it's putting big fucking gaps of stagnation in their life. I'm not saying like, oh, get over it, you'll be able to live, but like, shit like that is inevitable. And I think there are certain things you can do proactively to start prepping yourself for one of those times when they, when they occur, you know. 100%.

So it's one of the difficult things is defining like what is dealing with it, you know, right? Everyone deals with things in different ways, don't they? It's very true. Yeah, yeah, go on then. I don't know, like sometimes you steer ships into the storm and sometimes you go with it, don't you? Like you today with the footpath.

Yeah, like swim with the river. Yeah.

But yeah, there's some things that I don't know weren't attacking, some things that, yeah, maybe not so much attacking, but yeah, picking and choosing. But like, how you deal with it is not necessarily like the same way every time, or the same for every person, is it? Definitely not.

Do you know there's a direct correlation between how— it's not how affluent you are, it's how prosperous your life is and the likelihood of you taking your your own life. How's that measured? Uh, country, economic country versus— I think like US. US has like a very high suicide rate. All right. Um, and there's like an old story about how some people, some fucking— I don't know, someone went to the US and they were like in this fucking African tribe where they're basically like in a very— they're still living very primitively, right? And they were like, hey, like, why the fuck don't you want to come to America? And they were like, oh, that's where the white man kills himself. We don't kill ourselves. That's the last thing I want to do is go to America. Yeah, so their perspective of where we live, where we in the Western world, we look at, you know, more primitive cultures and we're like, fuck that, I don't want to live in a fucking hut. Yeah, but the perspective of us is like, you know, I don't want to be the white man that hates his life so much he's willing to take it himself. Interesting. Pretty fucking deep for a dog training podcast, but, uh, yeah, here we are. I think when you're warning, trigger warning.

When you think of dogs though, I always say it's the client, like, the adversity will always come in a fucking dog fight, car running over the dog, I don't know, fucking blow or whatever. But ultimately, like, from a training perspective, it'll always come in the fashion of something. Yeah, so I always say if people are hesitant about about, you know, e-collars or whatever it is, is I always want to be able to control the aversive that I give to the dog. So ultimately, like, I can effectively have a lot more control of the dog rather than, you know. So I always make that clear in terms of— but we do it in a process where the dog can obviously understand and learn. But then also, you know, I had someone backdoor boot camp a few weeks back because they were really, really hesitant on the e-collar, which, yeah, fair enough. I didn't argue, yeah, refund, no problems, fine. And no beef with them either. Like, it was just, he's a good bloke, we didn't want to do it, it's fine. But also, like, you know, there's an element for me that the biggest aversive, the dog not, not getting, getting what they need because we're trying to avoid that pressure of whatever it is. And they just— I'm a deep thinker anyway, on a good day, and I'm always thinking about, like, you know, how I hold myself accountable. It's not about, you know, necessarily looking a certain way or doing so. It's just more the, the ability to be able to absorb things, keep going, keep doing what you're doing. That's not because I think I'm better than anyone, but when we think about dogs, it's the same principle for me in terms of like, I want high standards in something so that the dog can have maximum— everything you guys believe in— maximum liberty then. But it does come in the fashion of, yeah, you got to deal with aversive and aversive we can control so that we can, yeah, give you a lot more.

Yeah, but if you get it right, ultimately you give them control of it. That's like, for me, the end goal is like, right, give the dog—

yeah, they can choose yes and no.

You know exactly how to not receive an aversive. Yeah, yeah.

So it's like, theoretically, your dog wouldn't ever need to feel that e-collar ever again. Yeah, the fucking comment choice. But the contract they've entered, like a mortgage or whatever, there's penalties, and you've been read this, read the rights, so to speak, and you've, you know what you're doing. So yeah, absolutely. But it— you'd never— if you're gonna dance around that problem And it always frustrates me, even though, you know, my background is force-free and all that. But it frustrates me now because I'm like, I fucked around for fucking years. Yeah. And that to me, like, it just— yeah, it just makes me— yes, think of the dogs really, and just like how much they could be missing. And as much as like I advertise like 12 Summers and all that, someone called me out the other day saying, oh, it's just clickbaity marketing. I was like, all right, to an extent, yeah. But I'm also like, it's really fucking true. Yeah, it's also like—

yeah.

So, uh, Whoppers, maybe.

Yeah, on theme, I think. So, Cookie did his first YouTube debut yesterday, wasn't it?

I don't know, I don't know. Yeah, I did something.

Someone asked if you were my dad. Yeah, that makes sense.

Wasn't it a blind guy though? It was a blind guy.

Yeah, he said, I don't know whether— yes, because I think it's just a vocal thing.

You sound like a child. 'cause you're so small. Wow. And I sound like a wise old man.

I feel like that was just a dig back, you know, 'cause the whole dad thing.

Yeah, you attacked me, so I said—

I didn't attack you, the blind guy attacked you. The blind guy attacked you.

You were attacked by a blind guy. Yeah, fair enough. And apparently I lost.

All right, so yeah, made his YouTube debut. And the video, I think, was about purpose deprivation? Yeah. It was a— I wrote the script, to be fair. Kirky read it off a teleprompter. Cat's out the bag. Did you read the script first? I didn't. I didn't proof it. All right. Well— But it's doing quite well, isn't it?

There was one of them where I read it and was like, "No, that's not right." So you had to redo it.

Yeah, I redid it, but yeah.

Yeah, fair enough. All right. It's not like I'm not conscious of what I'm actually spitting out of me mush.

And it actually come from inspo from the book I'm reading. And it was the concept of purpose deprivation. If you go long enough without purpose, and if you go long enough without struggle, having to overcome something, you might as well be starved of sleep, water, food. Yeah, it just happens over a longer period of time, so it's difficult. It's really difficult to measure when it gets you. Yeah, like, you know, when you, you're dehydrated and you're gonna die from dehydration. Same with hunger. Sleep, same. It's going to take a little bit longer maybe, but yeah, purpose deprivation happens over months and years.

But I think you're really conscious of that though.

It can really— it can kill you the same as any of the above. Yeah. Um, and back to the more primitive people, the people that live more primitive lives, they've got daily struggles to overcome. Yeah, and daily purpose. Daily purpose comes to that. Fucking find some wild boar, guava, antelope, aloe vera. What about one of the—

yeah, did you see the story the other day about the wild boar? Yeah, lady came up to us from France, but down in her house in France, Spaniel flushed out a wild boar out of a drainage ditch, chased it for fucking 20 minutes. She was terrified, jumped into a tennis court. Eventually dog lost the boar, came back. Oh, she's coming for e-collar training. Kind of makes sense. Yeah. Oh yeah, cool.

That would be more aversive for sure. Yeah, exactly.

Imagine getting tossed. Yeah. So case in point, you've been deprived of purpose for a very long time. While Bo rocks up, what are you gonna do?

Taste that bull's tail.

Yep. I'm gonna go and try and seek that purpose I've been craving for such a long time. Just like if you were starving of water and walking through a desert?

Spaniel. We didn't steal it purposely. Tiny little spaniel bloke. Nice dog as well, Lotus. And a bottle. Yeah, well, cuckoo, innit? If you—

yeah, well, if you've gone without water for a while, you drink camel piss.

Yeah, true. And you work hard for it.

Exactly. You fucking chase that camel piss down. Yeah, the analogy he gave in the book was like he was captured He was made a prisoner of war and they give him an, uh, one apple a week after not eating, and he said it was the most succulent, amazing apple, and even the stalk tasted phenomenal.

And it was probably like moldy and fucking shit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you deprive your dog of purpose, they're gonna go seek it themselves. Yeah, sure. That is— and, and to circle back, the deprivation of purpose is incredibly aversive. Hence why your dog's going to do crazy shit to remove that aversive feeling. Yep. Hence why you should probably collar train your dog and get him off leash, huh?

Yeah. You're looking at me like that.

I don't know, I'm just used to looking— I don't know. Yeah, very true. Good topic, wasn't it? Yeah, it was a good topic.

It was the deepest shit we've spoken about on this podcast.

Yeah, there you go. Yeah, all right, we got, we got, oh, we've got fucking ages. All right, let's go back to talking absolute shite.

Yeah, I like that one though. Yeah, it makes sense, doesn't it? Yeah, it is quite deep, but yeah, it's a little bit like retirement from sport.

Yeah, fuck, I bet a lot of you boys fucking try some fury shit. Yeah.

Like 100%, like I, I, oh, some good mates of mine, like, fuck, I wouldn't say they necessarily go crazy off the rails, but you can tell they don't have that same—

Mate, you played at the very fucking highest level, literally like 80,000 people, like, absolutely, yeah, fucking, yeah, want nothing more than for you to win, and it's your life and you've trained for every single day since you were 5. Yep. And you do it, you fucking complete it all, and then one day at 35 years old, it just fucking turns off. It just stops. It just goes away. It's fucking crazy to me. It's absolutely crazy to me. I can't imagine the fucking damage it does to going from that level of high purpose.

Yeah, you see it. You can see it. Not so much— I was very fortunate in the path I've had since. Playing, but like you can see it in some of the books. Like you can— what did you say?

Nothing. You fucking say nothing. Said you're welcome. Saved your life. Whatever, it's no big deal. Anyway, carry on.

Thanks. Yeah, nice.

There you go. Yeah, I whisper all the time. I just don't think you—

you're fucking deaf.

Oh wait, I bet they go from that to fucking just doing something just a bit shit. Yeah, yep, yeah, yeah. Go around the house to plaster someone's house and they go, aren't you, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You get rid of them every now and then, don't you?

Yeah, really funny.

Yeah, it is funny. Not Ian Kirk. Isn't it? Yeah. When was the last time you were reco'd in public?

Uh, Lee with Red, who I played before.

Oh, did he? Yeah. Oh, there you go. This week then. Witnessing it.

It's a good bloke, actually.

Yeah, benches over 200. Yeah, or has done, which is crazy.

He's fucking— that's a lot. You must be benching.

Oh, not at the minute. Heavy Spanish is 155, but it was not.

It was, bro. Video, not that video. I've got a video of my 150. Yeah, have you got a video of your 155? Probably not. Right, there you go. Just put mine up there. Yeah, there it is.

All right, so he was there, he was spotting me.

See? Yeah, and I remember.

I don't think I could do a press-up right now.

Your weakness is so low.

It's both. Made of fucking wood. My fucking shoulders are just fucked.

Yeah, I've seen you. No, you have seen you shot a few from fullback.

I winded a guy the other day, to be fair.

Yeah, you did. Yeah, yeah, you got any sporting endeavors lined up, mate? Yeah, you've doubled a bit in various activities.

You said you're gonna play rugby and then you completely fucking bottled it, which I didn't think you were down. I didn't think you—

I didn't put you down as well. You were playing fucking— I can't believe whatever for fucking ages. Yeah, I was gonna have a fucking run round. Yeah, not sign up and fucking play. I've never even played. You don't need to. To be fair, I do like watching rugby.

Why are you sticking 80 minutes standing with them then?

How do I—

where would I play with him?

Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty quick actually.

Yeah, I used to be a sprinter.

Oh, you didn't! What's your best time? Sub-11.

It's like 10:04 or something. No, it was not!

It was, right? When I was 10:04 from sprinting.

Has anyone got a trundle wheel? What? Fucking wheel things that fucking—

yeah, it was long time ago. I won't get that now, but I was a sprinter. I used to run for, uh, Bury and Sale when I was like 14 to like 19. I'll race you right now if you want.

I've got a poorly calf, but I will race you soon.

Yeah, sub 10 seconds. Oh, 10.4. Oh, 10.4.

Yeah, I was quick as a kid. It's like world-class.

Yeah, Usain Bolt's record was 9.58 seconds. Yeah, but that's—

there's a lot in fucking sprinting.

Yeah, that's—

yeah, that's fucking slow as fuck.

Yeah, have a look at like the slowest at the Olympics.

Go fastest white guy, fastest white guy. Yeah, top 3 fastest.

It was definitely sub 11, 1 million percent. Long time ago, bro, and I was the slowest. That's why I stopped. Yeah, fair enough. I was just getting overtaken by like 14-year-old Specimens.

Yeah, well, yeah, but no, how did we even get to that?

9.92 seconds.

That's this white guy. Yeah, it must have been. It was definitely sub-11, I'm telling you. All right, maybe not 10.4.

Do you have a power of 10 score? Do you remember that? It was like a universal website for athletic— athletics.

Uh, surely that was being recorded somewhere. What does that mean?

Yeah, like, yeah, if you've competed in British Athletics, like, all your scores are on a database.

I mean, I did compete for British Athletics.

No, no, under British Athletics. So like, if you did a school race or what— I've got a Power 10 score. What's Power 10?

What does it mean?

It's like, um, it's literally just a database for everyone's athletic records.

What did you say? Oh, fuck it.

What's involved in that? Um, it was actually pentathlon at the time because if you— as you go through the age brackets, they add on events. But it was at under-16s. Yeah, so what, like doing what? 800 meters, 110 hurdles, shot put, high jump, uh, triple jump or long jump. It's quite good. I, I got selected to run, uh, to compete for Wales and I had to decide whether it would be all rugby or that, and I picked rugby. Fair play. But I couldn't— athletics made me very nervous, couldn't do them.

Yeah, it's nervy, isn't it?

Yeah, doing relays and shit and waiting.

Oh yeah, it's good though. Yeah, yeah.

You done any athletics? Yeah, back in the day, obviously.

I think anyone who ends up doing sports, you do a bit, don't you?

Yeah, I wasn't a fucking 10.4, man.

My best 100 meters was just under 12.

That's quick for you. For you? No, just me.

Just a big dude.

You got a stride length in it, innit?

Yeah, but just, that's fucking seriously impressive.

But it was nowhere near as fucking heavy now as I am now. All right, fair enough. Probably like fucking 80, 90 kilo max.

Yeah, I need a big rack, something to get some dogs in there.

Yeah, we did like, um, I remember one, one year we did like a 150.

Were you lanky as fuck as a teenager?

Yeah, long as piss there. Chicken fajita. You can't really see lanky in that, so no. What is this photo? Why is it so— if anything, on that I look chunky. No, I'm not lanky because it's like a fucking bulbous costume.

You find us a lanky photo or no?

I'm sure I will be able to. Yeah, all right, sound. Back in the day, like, lanky.

Were you lanky? Yeah.

Oh yeah, I bet you went through some serious growth. It was quite a steady, um, you know, like those kids at school who fucking just suddenly go— yeah, I was never one of them. I was just like slow and steady. Some dudes overtook me height-wise and I just gradually overtook and dominated them. Then filled out and dominated him a second time. Second domination. It was like the second— it was like Easter, second coming away. Yeah, yeah, I know it's Easter right now, so yeah, there it is.

I like Easter, it's good. Do you? Why? No, no, I don't. I just mean like time of year, days are getting longer. I used to hate it.

I don't hate it, I feel completely indifferent about it because we used to play Friday, Monday, Friday. Oh yeah, I just wanted All right, I'm all meant because today's getting another trigger warning there.

Spring has sprung.

Spring has sprung a spaniel. Nice. Big spaniel time, isn't it? You can imagine that's when spaniels are most spanielling, so I get why you like it.

Yeah, I don't even like spaniels, bro.

What do you mean? You can't fucking say that. I can.

You can't.

Yeah, especially doesn't like trippers.

It's just, yeah, it's not right.

Yeah, you get some of those, but, um, I probably won't get another.

Cast her aside for Lenny. Look how much she smiled when you said Lenny.

I know, it was like you were the UPS guy. Yeah, yeah. Have you showed him your t-shirt?

Have you seen it? I don't know what to expect.

Yeah, uh, the alcoholic dog walker bought him this. Jesus Christ. Hey, Luke!

He was texting me last night as well.

Show the camera in.

Yeah, look, sorry. Amazing.

He was texting me last night.

He was texting me last night. You listened to the podcast, did he? He fucking loved it. I think you listened to it more than once.

Amazing.

Yeah, he thinks that I've got it on repeat. I think he's coming on, um, the podcast. Oh, he's coming. Yeah, yeah.

Let's see how fun— no, we'll do a podcast from his UPS van. Oh, amazing. We'll drive around with him, around on a day. We'll do a vlog. Is that what you call it? I will train all the ropey dogs he comes across. He's in one. There you are, Benno, you're in. You'll be like his security team.

He's going to try and come a week tomorrow and watch you with the— Mate, amazing.

A UPS guy? Our UPS guy is going to come watch me play rugby. Tell me that a year ago. I wouldn't believe you. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. There he is. Yeah, we've got video. I don't know, we'll put it up here, I guess, of Kirkie receiving a parcel whilst wearing that t-shirt. Nice. He loved it. I don't know whether he was a bit— I was emotional. I think he was emotional.

It was funny.

You need to get him. It's actually fucking mental when you think about it. I'm just like, hahaha, yeah. And then when you actually think about delivers parcels. Yeah, yeah, I know.

He's such an integral part of our life.

Coming around for Christmas.

Yeah, yeah, she bought him a Christmas present, bro. Yeah, I just got a few beers. Yeah, he has to be fair. He's like, uh, oh, it's fun. I can't— I think about all the time. I think about it.

You're getting a bit pushed out with mine.

Yeah, when I was a kid, we always used to get the bin men and that, like, Christmas gear.

Yeah, fair enough. I remember once, took me back, I remember for our window cleaner, I wrapped up a load of my dad's CDs and gave them to him.

And my dad was like, how the fuck have you done that?

That's really cute though.

Yeah, that's nice. That's lovely.

I'm pretty sure my dad asked for them back.

Oh no, I know Richie's great, it's his. Can I have them back? Brilliant.

Yeah, so fucking hell, that's unlocked some memory.

Yeah, fair enough. All right then.

Yeah, we better wrap it up, huh?

It's been the most somber podcast in a way, but then we talked about benefits. Yeah, I know. Yeah, you're going fucking nice.

It looks a bit inspiration.

It's a bit like he's died in it, a little bit. Just the forever down the bottom. It's a bit like a bit of a tribute.

Yeah, I didn't think of it like that. I thought the color scheme and what have you is very canine optimist.

Yeah, it is, to be fair. A bit unicorny.

Yeah, when Chloe gets stuff sorted, we should just have a shrine.

A whole shrine. Yeah, nice. The candles in there. Yeah, nice.

I don't know if we should sort that off. I think that's how it's meant to be.

Whatever you want, mate.

It's not sanitary though. It's not very sanitary.

No, we'd have to probably employ some actual, like, professionals to get that thing sorted.

Yeah, because there's people coming out.

It has managed to catch something.

Uh, not many people can survive in there.

Cookies. I just like— you see his hole? No, that hole. Sorry, I'm sorry, we've been away together, it's fine. Yeah. What are you doing the rest of the day?

I don't know, you're on about that.

We're all having food here tonight.

Yeah, uh, I don't know, I've got to get Kerry gone. He's dead now.

Oh yeah, that's it, that's it. It's probably the last time you'll ever see the nutnut, to be fair, guys, on the podcast, because he's got dad stuff to do. Responsibilities, man.

I want to get your little child a gift. I have no idea what the fuck that would be.

A knife, probably.

Yeah, that's the only thing I know anything about.

Don't let anyone buy your kid his first knife. French. Yeah, yeah, we're Frenchmen. We're gonna come to the baby shower bearing gifts. It's got a 12-inch knife, 2 Frenchies. Brilliant.

I want one of them t-shirts.

Yeah, nice. Yeah, a baby grow with this on.

Oh yeah, I've already, I've already got some merch ready to come.

Yeah, I bet. Yeah, can we get a little YCA jumper made for it? Like the— yeah, I'll ask Mohammed. We need a baby version of it. Yeah, yeah.

Brooke's already written a book. She's done it. She's already made a book. It's called the— it's actually called The Wallamar and the Spaniel. And, um, I don't know the storyline. I've not read the plot, but she's a fictional storybook to read to the baby. It's cool. That's cool.

All right, fine.

It's called The Wall of Maranspan. I don't know what— I don't know how it goes, but that's— yeah, she's gonna read it to the baby. Oh yeah, that was quite cute. Yeah, yeah, smashing shit up, probably in all the castles and dragons and shit.

Bulldogs. Tell it what its uncles did. Yeah, before they've offed themselves. One too many somber podcasts.

Yeah, fair enough.

I thought it was quite inspiring, to be honest.

But what, the book?

Look at the podcast. The book, you know, the podcast.

Yeah, hopefully. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it always gets better, doesn't it? Okay, you did athletics. He reckons you run a 10.4. 10.4.

I think he's gonna accept the walkie-talkie chat. It's fast, so we know that he's pretty good, right?

I won't do it now.

But I would probably do it now.

Ah! Oh no. I was young. Oh no. No. He's like, "You're an idiot. You're a fucking moron. 10-4.

He's white." Yeah, that's why I was getting beat a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, fair enough.

I'm gonna race that on the beach though next week, so make a beat.

All right, fair enough.

I will lose. Yeah, funny one.

Yeah, brilliant.

In the vest, you're gonna wear a vest?

No, no, no, shirtless.

Yeah, yeah, all right, yeah, fair enough.

Them short, like them satiny, like fucking boxers.

What time we have?

Oh, we got ages.

Ages. Oh, they're making me do a webinar. Do we announce that thing? The— oh, we're gonna jinx it again. Yeah, yeah, that was a big jinx, that one. Yeah, slash bollock drop. Yeah, let's not jinx it. Why don't we just tease it?

Do you like a bit of teasing?

It'll be creeping up. Still a tease. All right, so by the time you find it out, we just edit it out. Okay, no, this is just saying it in the Spanish. I've told loads of people.

Yeah, yeah, fuck it. But now we're about to tell 3 more. I really believe in jinxing, to be honest.

Yeah, I got pressured.

Go on, tell us.

Ring whoever it is. Go on. Yeah, I don't know who it is. I haven't a fucking clue what this is.

Should we see if we can ring Adam or Brodie?

Oh, that thing. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

What thing did you think? I don't know.

I didn't have a clue. No, it's in there on chat.

You told me that at lunch though.

So he's coming tomorrow. Yeah, he's texted me before. He's texting everyone. Yeah, he's excited, isn't he? Hopefully. Basically, by the time this podcast is released, hopefully, fingers crossed, should happen now. The business has been registered and we paid a big old fucking fat deposit, so hopefully. Come on. Oh. I'm gonna ring him now. He'll be asleep, will he?

Oh yeah, you can't. Oh yeah, you can't ring him now.

Yeah, it'd be great if we could check the time thing.

All right, but like, whatever time it is, I'm ringing him because it would be even better. Are you gonna ring him now? Oh, it's only 10 to 11.

Hmm, Susie's flopping here. She's got to move all the cameras.

The sleeping's for fucking Wappers in here for pussies.

Yeah, sleepings for pussies. There he is. Good day, mate. All right, mate, how are you?

Yeah, good, literally about to leave the airport now.

Oh shit, that's crazy. Crazy timing. We just got you on the podcast, mate.

Oh yeah, nice.

You're just next to the mic on loudspeaker, so don't say anything you wouldn't shout in a school.

Has my cock got a front or back?

Bottom or top? We'll have a look when you get here. I don't know. It's hard to tell with a micro penis.

The top is the bottom and the bottom is the top, you know?

It's more like a node. Yeah, it's more like a note. It's more like a positive and negative, like a small D battery. It's like a nipple. Yeah, like a nipple. Yeah, we're just going to— this podcast won't be out for another 2 weeks, so hopefully we'll have announced our thing by then. So we're just going to— we want to give you the luxury of announcing it on the podcast, hence ringing you. Oh, okay, awesome.

Um, go on then, put on the spot now.

But, um, well, yeah, the announcement is that, um, we are opening a canine academy in Western Australia. So it will be Yorkshire Canine Academy will be coming to Perth, Western Australia, and it'll be known as the Perth Canine Academy. So myself and my wife Brody will be running it alongside, uh, Jacob and Kirky and the whole crew at YCA and Yeah, it's gonna be fucking crazy.

Nice. You see, you're literally just about to get on the plane now.

Yeah, me and Brody just had a big bickering because apparently my carry-on's too heavy, so she's currently throwing my clothes around and making sure it's, um, all right.

If you could get us a picture or video of that, we could ping up on the podcast right now. That'd be good.

Just dump the hair product, bro.

Put Poppy to work. Yeah, dump the mustache cream. You don't need the mustache cream. The pompadour. What is it, the pompadour? I don't know, the pomade. Yeah, um, so you're getting on the plane now. We're— Pablo, we're sending Pablo down to get you tomorrow in the big YCA bus.

So you're getting fucking new tires or something, eh?

Yeah, he's sorted them now, fresh ones. So you got a VIP treatment, and then you're gonna come up for a week of content and do some boot camping, and then we're gonna come out there and join you for the big launch. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, sounds good. Brody's shaking her head in a bit of disbelief still, which is—

which is good.

She's been going crazy enough, but I think I've been driving her even more crazy, so I think she deserves a bit of a time away from me.

Yeah, nice. What's she getting up to while you're away?

She said, story of my life.

Yeah, fair enough. What's she getting up to while you're away?

Uh, she's got a fight coming up, or she's nominated to fight on a few different events, so you should have just brought her here.

She could have scrapped the mutton.

Yeah, that would have been a good—

we could have streamed it. I reckon she'd beat him, might not. Yeah, same.

Yeah, but you couldn't catch her if he's running 10-4.

Yeah, I am taller even in my non-platform shoes with these fucking bouncy Solomons.

Yeah, about 4 inches.

Send Brodie something. Should we send her something?

What, like a stick of rock? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, all right, tell Brodie we're gonna send a stick of rock.

Jacob and Kirkie said they're sending you a stick of rock as a present.

Yeah, they know what that means.

They probably think it's an actual stone.

Yeah, Adam's actually English. Oh gosh. Yeah, fake Aussie. Yeah, fake Aussie. You can sometimes hear it creep in, to be fair. Fuzzy. Fuzzy. Yeah, it's just fantastic town at Gravesend. All right, mate, well, safe travels. We'll see you very shortly. By the time this podcast is out, the launch will be due. It will be official. And, um, yeah, it's all exciting, right? Yeah, very. I was just showing the M— the facility. It's absolutely— it's mega, isn't it?

Oh, I thought I heard his voice. Isn't it? Is he there?

Yeah, he's there right now. Do you want to say hello?

All right, bro.

Oh, he's having a baby as well. We're having the gender reveal on the podcast. You're not talking about Lenny, are you?

We're having a Spaniel It's up to bro.

Yeah, yeah, Spaniel or Malinois reveal. All right, mate, I gotta go because I got a webinar. Speak to you tomorrow. Bye. See you, mate. There you are. Yeah, that's pretty good podcasting. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, it is the best. This is number 4, 5, I think. Is it?

Uh, yeah, yeah, we did 2. And then we did America post one, and then we did the one in Australia.

Australia.

Nice. It's been a pleasure, boys. Appreciate it.

They are good ones, to be fair.

You ever gonna do your own podcast?

Maybe give us an invite, maybe scratch our backs on them.

And again, new fucking listen.

Funny thing about you, better you just talk about obscene stuff, huh? Yeah, but everyone's got a dog training podcast. No one talks about front and back of dicks and UPS guys and stuff like that.

Yeah, we've got YouTube now, I know, so we've got long form.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. All right, you know, I won't carry on because I got— I actually got a webinar in 4 minutes. 4 minutes? Yeah. All right, yeah, they got set up. All right, you got it.

Say bye, Ian. Bye, Ian. Bye, Ian.