Purpose, Not Prison | S02 E04

Let's come back to When Kings Unite. Really excited to join Wes, Freddie, and myself, Smith, for another conversation around how masculinity gets to show up as medicine. And today, we're gonna take a look at the nuances between our own lived experiences, living through purpose, showing up with action and love and integrity and values, and what that means for us in our everyday lives. So without further ado, let's get started with this episode. Alrighty, we're back, gentlemen. Nice to see you guys. How you guys doing?

Fantastic.

Pretty good.

Awesome, guys. Yeah, really glad to be having this conversation. Always love that. It always feels like we're coming around a fire and having a just like a normal conversation with each other. I'm glad the world gets to listen in and Yeah, for our viewers as well too, Chris is in the void today. As you guys know, he's going through different iterations with his cancer battle. And as he's recovering right now, he's just going through a hard stint. But he is here today in the void, and he's focusing on the producing of this episode, but is with here— with us, excuse me, here in spirit. So super excited to still have all the kings in the space. Yeah, let's get to it, guys. So our conversation today is going to be around purpose, and I'm just really curious from like, for us as a collective, like, do you guys know your purpose? What's your relationship with living with purpose in your life?

Hmm. Yeah, I suppose I can, I can start us off, kick us off here. I think the purpose conversation is, for me, I'll speak from the I, is a bit nuanced. The first thing that comes up for me when I think about purpose is actually my vision. And I know we're gonna, I think you mentioned that we're gonna talk about vision as well.

I mean, I'd like to. If we do, we don't actually have to, Freddie.

Yeah. But to, like, for me, they are, your purpose and vision are kind of intertwined. They might even be a bit interchangeable. But like, and it's evolving. Like, it's not this set, monolithic thing that is fixed for my— for the duration of my entire life. So, so yeah, like, I believe that, you know, I have a vision or a direction that my life is headed in. And I think that direction or that vision sort of aligns with my purpose, or maybe it is my purpose. I'm not, I don't know, I'm kind of rambling and talking through it in real time with you. I don't necessarily have like the answer.

Mm-hmm.

But yeah, I think purpose and vision for me are very much Interconnected, intertwined, might even be the same. Who knows?

Yeah, I really appreciate you saying that. And like, I totally get all the nuances. You know, for me, I think like purpose is living like with intention. That's like how I feel it sit— feel it, excuse me, sitting in my body. But with that being said, like, it's funny that Like you had that experience of yourself with living with purpose, because my experience of you is like you're so full of purpose. Like, I always see you out in the world living with intention from all the different ways that like you show up in spaces that you lead in, that you participate in. Dude, like even just sitting and watching TV, I feel like you're always living with purpose. The fact that you like have watched Ted Lasso like 1,000 times, like, I think kind of speaks volumes to that.

And Heated Rivalry 10 times now.

Dude, that's crazy.

And no, it has not been that many times for Heated Rivalry yet. Yet. Yet.

Yeah, I appreciate that. I guess like what I'm Currently feeling is like, man, I look at you as someone who's like, oh, that person has their shit together with purpose. And sometimes parts of me show up in spaces where I'm like, man, I should have my purpose more dialed in. I should be like more conscious. Yeah. And like, I guess like what I'm kind of sitting with is like, man, how do like people navigate that? Like, it happens for me. I'm sure it happens for like all of us in general too.

Yeah.

Definitely happens to other men out in the world, other people out in the world. So like, how do we actually like differentiate judgments around other people's purposes or how we think we should be and actually just choosing to live our own path?

Yeah, actually there's one thing that I feel compelled to— something you just said that I think gets to be addressed and And this isn't the first time that I've heard this, especially in the last couple of days, and that is that I appear like I have all my shit together. Um, I don't, I don't see that as being sort of like a, a, uh, requirement or even a prerequisite for purpose. I don't think having purpose means having all your shit together. Um, you know, in fact, I think I feel lately, especially like within the last year, within the last 6 months even, uh, more in my purpose, more, more, more of an embodiment in my purpose. And I feel like I have all my shit less together than I ever have in my life.

Mm-hmm.

And I never thought about it that way, but that just sort of came to me when I heard that sentiment once again, that, oh, Freddie appears like he has all his shit together. Well, it's just that. It's an appearance.

Yeah.

It's not necessarily the reality, especially if we go internally. There's a lot of stuff going on inside this body here. And it's not all together all the time. And that's okay. Like, that's part of the human experience is, you know, yeah, I can and get to have vision and live in my purpose and be headed in a particular direction and not be all together to, you know, allow myself to have— you know, I think we've talked about a few times in the first season, You know, having the full human experience.

Oh, yeah. You know, you mean you and I even just in normal conversation in life too? Like, yeah, tons of conversations around that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think I appreciate you putting light to that. Like, not just for the people listening in, but even like myself. Like, sometimes I let the head trash, like all the judgments, complaints, stuff, you know, like get in. And to be very clear, like, I often think that about a lot of people. In my life, including a lot of my friends. That shows up a lot, um, for me too. And I think it's so amazing, and I think, uh, it's actually really honorable for you to like notice the distinct differences there, um, and to also just like share so openly, um, around your experience, man. Like, I really appreciate it. Uh, yeah, and I have it that other men do too.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. And, um, yeah, speaking about like other friends, like, um, I think the beauty of it, like I notice how even in this conversation around like purpose, like my, my purpose has shifted and molded in different ways coming up. So I'm curious for you, Wes, like, are you very clear on your purpose right now? Do you feel really grounded in it? Um, Yeah, I'd love to hear more about your experience with purpose in general.

Yeah, it's interesting that I think purpose used to be something that I was a lot more attached to, like almost this thing of like, if I am not living into my purpose in every given moment of the day, I'm like failing somehow. And to me, there's an interesting— I think Chris has actually talked about this. I forget the exact concept, but something about like the levels of like true power. And there's a point where people are like, I understand myself now. I'm like really into my purpose. And there's actually like the highest place above that, which is like, actually, like, it doesn't even matter. Like, I can just— B, I can just enjoy my life and it's all good. And one thing that I definitely believe in that we have practiced through the coaching program that Smith and Chris and I graduated from is purpose also isn't just a thing you do. It's a way of being that you embody. So I appreciate like, even, yeah, you spent just saying like, yeah, you can, you even like, even if you're just watching TV, like you're doing that with purpose, like you can do anything from your purpose. And my purpose as distinguished through that program, Accomplishment Coaching, is light. And it's both a way of being and to me, a way of doing. I have this, this image of like illuminating the path to people's hearts to help people see like what it is that they actually want in life and then to go and actually make that happen. There's something in that for me of like having people know that they can live the exact lives they want and that they can actually make that real and possible.

Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a ton of gold in what you just said. Like, I actually have a lot of like questions and even statements from there. Yeah, I kind of just want to pause to kind of be with it for a second. Hmm. Yeah, I, um, thank you for sharing that as well. Um, yeah, kind of like what I was saying before, I like— this is what I love about having conversations like this. Um, I wasn't really sure where this conversation was gonna go with purpose. Um, But I, I'm noticing there's so much gold in just like the exploration for it. For me, one of the experiences that I have with purpose is that I want to be in alignment, like with my purpose, always. Like whether it is like despite the doing, which you mentioned, which I totally like agree with, I think like being in purpose is the most important thing for me in my life. And I have it, I don't have to be right about it, but I really assert that like a lot of other men feel like me in this way of, man, I know what it's like to fuck up and I don't wanna fuck up anymore. And I think there's like a place of fear that it was coming from with me most of the time before. And now what I'm seeing is like, hey, I don't need to put that pressure on me. But there's also like a way that I really do wanna show up. people's lives. And I think that can be like, um, a slippery slope or like a tricky conversation, um, because I'm all about like essence and being and, uh, you know, being in alignment, uh, but then there's, you know, some people, some men, uh, out in the world that don't even know what alignment is. They think they know what it is. And then, you know, there's havoc that gets to be created from that. And I'm not impartial to it, right? So like part of it for me is like, it feels almost like a responsibility that I was like, okay, no, like I'm gonna be a man about this. Like I'm gonna, I'm choosing now to live through purpose. And I think it gets to be hard too. I think. Like it gets to be challenging. It gets to be frustrating at times also, all with the joy and the excitement and all the other things that we were speaking about. So that's my view actually on it. I think both sides need to be included. And I'm curious about your guys' take on that because I think, yeah, I think that part of the conversation usually gets left out. Yeah.

Well, I mean, like as I was listening to you sort of you know, work and work through that and navigate through the languaging of that, what came up for me is purpose, not prison.

Hmm.

Purpose, not prison. Like, our purpose is not meant to trap us in this rigid— this rigidness or this— You know, enclosed room where the, where all the walls are closing in on you and like you have to, you know, fit into this one neat, nice little box for, for your entire life. Like, that's not what purpose is or what it means. Um, in, in fact, you know, when I think of my purpose or my vision, mine is all about freedom. You know, like, I envision a world where freedom, which I define as the highest frequency of dignity, agency, and love, is fully embodied by all humanity.

Yeah, I love that.

You know, so that's what I, you know, that's what I embody. That's what I seek to embody. That's what I, that's what I move and navigate the world with every day, or at least that's my intention. Um, and so it's not about, you know, oh, I have to, you know, meet this one specific standard, uh, all the time, or, or, or I'm not in integrity, or I'm not, you know, authentic per se. You know, it's like, I, my, my view is authenticity sometimes can even become performative. And so I, I have, you know, my own life, you know, in alignment with this intention of freedom, I have replaced authenticity with audacity.

Hmm.

Like, how can I, how can I take risks? How can I, you know, how can I permit myself to, to be more bold and be Uh, more audacious and take more risks and, and truly live into the experience of freedom.

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Man, I'm gonna need to go back to the recording of that and like really flex with all of that. That was so good, man. Um, Yeah, that— holy fuck, that was so good.

Thanks.

Thanks for speaking into that. I don't know if it's the mushrooms or if it's something else. Uh, just so you guys know, Freddie took some mushrooms right before this.

Well, not right before this, but—

Well, 4 hours, we could say it's right before. Yeah.

Yeah, I really like that, purpose, not prison, because you can so easily turn your purpose into a prison. Yeah. Like, yeah, like I was actually just having a great conversation with my good friend Luke the other day, and he's active in this effective altruism community. And if you guys haven't heard of effective altruism, it's essentially this movement where people Hopefully I don't butcher the purpose of this, but it's essentially like, how do we actually create the best possible impact on the world? And so it's a lot of really brilliant people thinking and doing the things that they believe will actually make the world a better place. So there's a lot of human rights work, a lot of animal rights work. And as we were talking through all that, I was like, man, that seems like a really fucking heavy burden to carry. Like, how common is burnout in that community? And he was like, honest, like, very fucking common.

Yeah.

And it's quite common for people to feel like, I have to do this, I have to create this great impact on the world because I can. And so they're just throwing throwing themselves at this purpose over and over again, day in and day out. And it's like, I really appreciate and respect the intention behind it. And like, once that purpose becomes a prison, it can become a dicey place to come from, I think.

Yeah.

Both for yourself and the movement, even if it like creates some resentment, like I, my hope is that anyone working to create good in the world also knows and believes that they deserve good too.

Yeah. Yeah. That's so, I mean, what came up for me just now, um, was one, my experience, and then like, 2, what I think also happens with other people. Like, one, my experience is like, I've also been on the other side of it where like, most of my traditional work that I've done happened to be like, okay, I need to live through purpose, so I'm going to self-sacrifice myself. And when those patterns and those even people in my life get used to that way of being, it's harder to like step out of it and it becomes like a different level of burnout, not just like internally, but then also externally, because people then start demanding that in a sense.

Mm-hmm.

So, man, I like when you were speaking, I was like, oh, Fuck. Like, I've— I know that feeling. Fuck, it sucks.

Hmm.

And then number 2 though, like, this is where I love duality. Like, love it being need to be there. Like, that typically gets missed in conversation, I think, and just in general. But what I also think gets missed is like that darker side of it. But I think there's something in the middle for me. There's like acceptance and forgiveness and coming alongside of people.

Yeah.

Yeah, because like, what I think happens sometimes with like men's work, like we're all a part of a men's circle that we all come together in, in DMC, which is amazing. I've seen this in other men's circles too. It's like there's such a pressure to be like, you got to be the fucking man. You got to show up. Like, you got to do this thing. And that's also fucking draining. And then, as we know, what happens is like One of two things. People either, like, overdo it, and then they're like, okay, I gotta do everything. And then some people totally do the opposite, like, fuck that shit, I ain't doing that. And then it becomes, like, the same dilemma regardless. Like, the same result happens. It's like no one actually becoming anything besides a disempowered version of themselves.

Mm.

And I mean, like, that's tough, you know, to be with as well too. So I think there's so many nuances to this, but I wanna pause there as, like, do you guys have anything to comment around, like, that, you know, scenario? That could come up for people. Yeah.

Well, you know, this is something that I've been speaking about quite a bit in the last few weeks, and it is just how, you know, if we— especially if we're thinking about in terms of professionally, how the number that industrialism has done on humanity In making us and tricking us into believing that we're supposed to be single-function tools. Right? Like, I found myself trapped in that narrative for most of my life, even when I decided to go into coaching. You know, once I, you know, put myself in, you know, on this journey of mastering Uh, coaching, I, I trapped myself in that. Um, and when it looked like things were, you know, with coaching were kind of coming to a screeching halt, I, I found myself experiencing the, the sensations of depression and anxiety again. And I was like, okay, what, what's, what's going on here? What's happening? And it was, it was another awakening process for me in like reframing this idea that I'm a single function tool, that I'm, that I, I can only make money being a coach and doing coaching. And when I let go of that narrative, I was like, oh, I'm more than a coach. I get to be more than a coach. Like, I— there are other things that I enjoy doing. I have other interests that I get to pursue. And so I get to do all the things. I get to be all the things. And that sort of became my mantra. All the things, not just one thing, not just one goal, not only You know, one purpose, right? I get to be, do, have, create, generate, embody all the things that interest me, all the things that I love. What if that's my purpose, is to be, do, have, create, generate, embody all the things that I love most? Wow.

So beautiful, dude.

Yeah, I appreciate what you're speaking into that. I think we've been kind of circling around this thing of like, you can be doing the purposeful thing and not coming from a purposeful place. Like, yeah, for me, it's like, oh, I'm gonna do all of this shit because I love these people, or I love myself, and I want us to have these things. But then I'm not moving from a place of love. It becomes this, like, weird circuitous thing where—

Mm-hmm.

I'm not, like, embodying the thing that I'm actually trying to bring.

Mm-hmm.

And I think to what you're speaking to, Smit, of like growing up having to be the guy, or just having that messaging of like, you have to be strong, you have to be a provider, you have to always be the fucking anchor. Like, that gets fucking exhausting if you always have to do that, and if that's your only purpose. But again, underneath it all is love. Like, to me, that's the thing to actually embody is not doing or performing love, but being love itself.

Yeah.

I like, I think the, the, the, the root of All of this that we're talking about is this notion that I have to. Like, I don't have to do shit.

Like, I—

there is nothing that I have to do. I don't have to do shit. I get to do whatever I choose to do.

Hmm.

You know, we talk so much, especially in this country, about freedom and liberty. You know what I'm saying? Like, but then we subjugate ourselves, and we imprison ourselves with all of these have-tos and need-tos and ought-tos and supposed-tos. And all that shit is, in Wes's words, all that shit is made up.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I was actually thinking about that, um, On my ride home, I was driving back from Madison, Wisconsin, back to my place here. And I was like looking at the roads and the houses and all the streets. And I was like, man, this is all made up. Back in the day, people just used to hop around on horses. Like, it's amazing, like what we can create with our minds. But it is, to your point, like all made up.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's such an important point with this. Like, the thing that I'm kind of getting from this conversation, I kind of feel called to like recap it. It's like what I'm hearing for us, the common thread in this space is like purpose can look like so many things. It seems like for all 3 of us, it's actually really closely related with like authenticity, like how we want to show up and also But being mindful of not coming from a place of like, I have to, I get to, I want to, I choose to, instead of like thinking that we have to do things a certain way. Would you guys say that it's any differently for you?

I mean, for me, I would replace the authenticity with audacity.

Yeah.

But even, like, I also think that it's more intuitive. Like, my purpose is— it comes from an internal place. It's not this, you know, oh, I saw somebody on TV do this, so You know, like I'm, I'm gonna internalize something that I saw externally. Well, no, I could be inspired by, by something that I see someone else doing, or, you know, how I see someone else being and moving through the world. But ultimately, what, what is for me comes from me. I, I am the source of all the things in my universe. Like we are, we are each our own individual universes that we are the masters of.

Yeah. Yeah, it's beautifully said, Freddie. I think I've heard people say things too, like, I haven't found my purpose yet, as if it's this thing outside of them to go get. Yep. And to that, I'm like, you have it. Like, you just have to listen Internally, intuitively to the purpose inside you that naturally wants to come alive.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. You know, when, um, a vision that I'm currently having, it's, uh, I think the vision's kind of like half-baked, but I imagine someone listening into this podcast right now being like, I'm stuck right now. Um, I don't know where to go. Uh, this, I searched this thing on YouTube or whatever, and I found your podcast. I want to, I want to know, like, should I, should I find a purpose? Should I, should I not? What should I do? Um, I'm curious what you guys would say to that, that person. Yeah.

I, to, to sort of piggyback off of what Wes put down, uh, with, you know, people who are saying, you know, I, I, I need to find my purpose. Uh, it reminds me of one of my, uh, favorite quotes from one of my favorite authors, uh, Neale Donald Walsch, who wrote, uh, the Conversations with God series.

Mm-hmm.

And there was a point where God spoke to him and said, life is a creation, not a discovery. So if we think in terms of creativity and creation and that, and reminding ourselves that we are creators, then it's not a matter of, you know, I need to go out and search for and find my purpose. I get to create it. I get to try things. I get to do things. I get to, you know, I get to create things. And through the creation of those things or the creation of those experiences, because I think ultimately that's what we're doing when we create, we're creating experiences. When we create those experiences, in essence, we're creating our purpose. Like in real time, we're creating our purpose. It's not some, you know, mythical theoretical thing that just sounds good, you know, and gives us something to perform. No, it's, it's no, this is, this is what I have been creating. This is, these are the experiences that I have been creating. This is the impact that it has been making in people's lives. Oh, bing bing, that's my purpose. It's already happening.

Yeah, I really like that. And it aligns really well with what I was thinking, which is just do the thing that feels alive. Like today, just do the thing that feels alive. Tomorrow, do the thing that feels alive, which might be different from the thing you did today. Like sooner or later, if you just follow that, like, the pieces just naturally come together. Like, at one point, I started writing, and then I was like, oh, I guess this is how I'm going to impact the world. And then I started coaching, was like, oh, I guess this is how I'm going to impact the world. And it's like—

Hmm.

It, it is a continually evolving thing. And again, I think it comes back to the way of being that you want to show up as and what you want people to have.

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I think the key phrases like purpose, core values, vision, like that gets thrown around a lot. I think they're all kind of pointing to the same thing. And I mean, very distinctly, there's a lot of elements that I resonate with. I think the biggest one for me is learn how to listen to yourself, like truly listen to yourself. Our last episode was around like not just reacting but responding. And there's like this nuance of like, can we filter through all the things, all the bullshit to like really be able to listen to ourselves?

Yeah.

And to the person that's listening in right now that might need to hear this, you totally got this. We believe in you. There's so many people that believe in you. And you get to listen to yourself. Beautiful.

Yeah, and one thing I'll add is I've been feeling this idea for a while of often like you actually have to get exactly what you want to realize it's not what you fucking wanted. Like, and I think that's what happens to a lot of people is they get stuck in this thing that they feel like they should want, this purpose that they get imprisoned in. And either they're like, oh, there's always this next thing that I want, or they just try to gaslight themselves into being grateful for the thing they already have and don't actually listen, as Smith said, to like what's happening for you internally. And the more you listen, the more you tap into who you actually are and what's happening in your intuition, the more the answers just come to you. I'm a firm believer that you already have all the answers you need and all you need to do is listen.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm curious, have either of you ever heard of the Icky Guy?

Mm-mm, I have not.

Yeah, it's, it's ikigai, I-K-I-G-A-I. And, uh, there's this like ebook that I found online called, um, called Finding Your Ikigai. And, uh, it says that, you know, according to Japanese culture, one way to One way to a more meaningful and purposeful life is to discover your ikigai. And it's like this— it has this like 4-way Venn diagram. And it's basically what you love, what the world needs, what you're good at or great at, and what you're paid for. And at the intersection of all 4 of those domains— That's your, that's your ikigai. That's your purpose.

Yeah, that's—

It's weird. Yeah.

Oh, go ahead, dude.

Yeah, it's weird that I was, I was just thinking about that this morning for like, it's like something that I haven't thought about really in years, but it's like, for some reason this morning I was thinking of exactly that and like visioning, envisioning that like Venn diagram. Something must have told me you were going to bring this up. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I also think like you perfectly kind of like transitioned to the next part of the conversation that I wanted to have for us and for the people listening is like, yeah, is there any other like practical ways that you guys see for yourselves or for the world to like actually like tap back in? To listen. Um, because my, uh, I've been in this boat before. I'll just out myself of like, sounds great, it's gonna be awesome, get after it. Life has a curveball and it's like, fuck, you know, like something happens and that, uh, like I either put judgment on myself or shame or whatever. So is there any practical steps that you guys have either taken to get to your purpose, practical ways for you guys that have helped you navigate out of being in a spot where you're not like in alignment with yourself?

Well, I think for me it ties into, you know, what Wes has already spoken into, which is listening, you know, and For me, that listening is an internal process. It's, it's, it's like I spoke about earlier, the intuition piece, listening to the energies, vibrations, frequencies, signals that my body is receiving, you know, and we all have talked about numerous times on this podcast about how challenging it can be for men specifically to feel. Mm-hmm.

Right?

Uh, and so what, what happens is when we try to, uh, numb or not feel certain emotions that we don't like to feel, in essence, we have to numb all emotions and all feelings because you can't only Like, the universe doesn't recognize good and bad emotions. Emotions are all— they're all important, right? They all serve a purpose. So, so if all of my emotions serve a purpose, then I get to keep myself open to receiving all of that data and all of that information. And listening to what my body is telling me. So as I navigate through the world and try things and create things and create experiences, within those experiences, I get to listen to what my body is telling me and what my body is communicating to me about how, how, how that experience feels. To me.

Yeah.

Yeah. What I'm like kind of picking up, if I had to distill, is like really pay attention to the body. Like pay attention to like what's happening in the body and it'll, it'll point you in the, in the direction.

Yeah. Like, like when, when I'm doing something that feels energetically aligned with me, everything in my body just, just Like, I start feeling these energetic currents just shooting through my body, and that's my body's way of saying, yes, this is it. Like, listen to that.

Yeah. Yeah, I feel you, man.

I—

thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I think just some things that kind of come up for me, like, somatically also through the body is like, I love doing breathwork for that reason. Like, there's times, of course, like in our days, like we're paying attention to our body and what's going on. But like the practice of coming back to my body and just really distinctly paying attention to it helps me, helps me perform better in other areas of my life when I, when I start to do that. So breathwork has been huge for me. You know, I know like the mainstream stuff is like journaling and that kind of thing. It just doesn't work for me as well.

Like, Yeah.

I'll write down maybe like a note or two, but I know for some people that can be big. I just know from my experience, I really need to like move with my body. So breathwork has been huge. There's this practice through John Wineland that one of my friends— you guys know him, of course, Austin Walker— him and I have taken on. It's called sadhana practices. So it's like breathwork, but it also incorporates movement. And that also really supports me. But what also really helps me is like having conversations, like just having conversations or, you know, one of the first times that I talked about purpose was with a coach actually. And just like being able to process through it opened up so many doors for me to like land on something that I found to be concrete, you know, for me. So that's what I would say. you know, start to look at the body, but also maybe also connect with somebody else, see what they have to offer for you. And you can take bits and pieces of other people's purposes and also still make it your own. Mm-hmm.

That's perfect. Because my mind was going to be hire a coach. Like, obviously, we're biased here.

Specifically hire Wes right now, y'all.

Yeah, hire me.

He's ready. He's ready.

Yeah, obviously, I'm biased here, but I didn't know how to do any of this before I hired a coach. Like, it can actually be quite hard to do all of this on your own, to like actually listen to yourself. And a coach is that mirror for you to pick up what you're putting down and to reflect to you what you And there's something about being witnessed in that way and having your greatness and purpose reflected back to you through your own words that, to me, there's nothing that can really replace that.

Yeah.

And it's, yeah, it's, it's a beautiful thing. this whole cornucopia of things that all kind of layer onto each other. But for me, it's like I have a coach, I have a therapist, I have a spiritual teacher, like I have a psychic I see sometimes. Like, all of this shit helps me make sense of myself in the world in a way that I could never do just on my own.

Yeah, yeah, thanks, man. Thank you both, actually, for putting into the space that it's never linear. But also, thank you for exemplifying it through your own lives.

Yeah. And it's—

go ahead. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think it's important to add this too, because for a long time, For at least 6, 6, 7 years. As I navigated through my, my journey of becoming a coach, journaling was a huge part of that process for me.

Mm-hmm.

So I journaled not every day, but I journaled regularly for several years. And then what I've noticed is, and I didn't really have this awareness until like just now hearing you talk about you know, distinguishing between, you know, the journaling practice and breathwork. The more I started doing breathwork and the more I started, you know, doing more of like the psychedelic journeys and, and things of that nature, I find that I journal less now.

Hmm.

Like, and it wasn't something that I intentionally was like, oh, I'm gonna stop journaling. No, I, I feel so much more mentally and emotionally regulated now. Like, my nervous system feels more regulated doing all of these practices to where I don't feel that pull or this need to journal as much anymore.

Yeah.

So whatever practices you choose, like, don't feel like you're imprisoned into doing those things either. Like, it will evolve And transform as you do.

Yeah. Oh, awesome. Yeah. And I mean, I love this conversation in particular, and I really wanted to share this, you know, before we drop. It's been really cool. I've known you guys for about 2-ish years, and it's been really cool to see our, like, evolution through our purpose in our own lives. Of course, we're not perfect. At least I'm not.

I am. Yeah, Freddie is, but nobody else in the world is perfect.

No, I'm kidding. Jokes. Yeah, and I like, I truly jokingly say that because I do think in our own respect, we all are perfect, including me. And we're perfect as is. And like, to see us listen attuned to be with ourselves, even through all the ups and downs of life, like having depression, you know, having financial concerns at times, moving through different life stages, moving in general. That can be a huge thing for a lot of people too. Like, everything that happens in our normal lives can still happen. And I've seen us, like, navigate through it all in such a beautiful, loving, kind, way. Um, so thank you guys for like bringing that, those gifts into this conversation. Um, your experience, I have it, is gonna help me support myself with my own purpose, with me and with other people. Um, thank you truly.

Yeah, I think what I'll, what I'll say to that is, um, You know, there was a big part of my vision, and I expressed this earlier when I shared my vision. A huge part of this experience of freedom is love. And like, I know, I know that I am living, embodying, fulfilling my purpose when I get to come into spaces like this and feel your love. And I get to pour my love into you, and I get to open myself up to receive the love that you pour into me.

Mm-hmm.

Like, to me, that, like, what's more purposeful than that?

Yeah.

Really great. Thanks, guys. Oh, what a beautiful time. Seriously. Um, yeah, I like that, uh, we just get to have conversations with each other, hang out.

Yeah.

Um, I'd like to close out today with a little bit of fun.

Yeah.

Yeah. Part of my— so just for everybody's knowledge, my purpose is possibilities, igniting possibilities in myself and other people, making sure that they know that they also get to be a choice. And that comes with different textures sometimes. So we're going to close out with a few different prompts. If you had to capture a message that you want to give to somebody in your life with one word, what word would you use?

One coming up for me is enjoy. Just fucking enjoy it, man. Don't stop overcomplicating it. Yeah, embrace the joy that you had as a kid and don't let anyone take it away from you.

I just trust. Trust it.

Yeah. Mine will not be a surprise to anyone. Audacity.

Yeah.

Yeah. Audacity. Be audacious. Take risks. Be bold in all things, personally, professionally. You know, who you love, how you love. Be audacious with all of it. Play full out. Yeah, that's what we're here for.

That's our purpose. Yeah. Oh, now it might change. It might be the same. I'm just curious if you had to give yourself one word to carry out the rest of today with, what would that be? Mine is going to stay the same. Trust.

Same here. Yeah, I'm gonna fucking enjoy the rest of the day. Yeah.

Um, I think I'm going to change mine. Rest.

Nice.

Rest.

Love that, man. All right, last question. Give me your best sound. Whatever you think your best sound is. I'll go first to exemplify. Yeah, that was it. All right, dude, we gotta wrap this up quickly. It's really good though.

Thank you. Thank you.

Is he expecting me to suddenly harmonize or what? Um, I, I guess I'll default to the, the sound I, I make when something fun or triumphant—

Having sex.

Oh, nah. Well, well, uh, That would be a crazy thing to do during— Yeah, I'd love a good ay.

That was not a body shot.

Someone— no, that's a, that's a real thing I do when, uh, yeah, something fun happens on a basketball court. I, uh, I see my friend in a hallway, like, it's— yeah, it's just a good ay.

All right. And with that, guys, we are wrapping up this episode of When Kings Unite. Enjoy the laughter in the background as we depart with our day, living with purpose, moving through the ups and downs of life, still choosing ourselves. Have a great rest of your day. Choose yourself, and we'll see you soon.

Bye.