The Medicine of Community | S02 E06

Welcome to another episode of When Kings Unite. We have Wes, Freddie, Chris, and myself, Smith, in the house again. And today, we're changing it up a little bit, and we're gonna have conversations that just matter to us. No script. We're here, present, and fully, fully ready for the fun. Let's kick it off with another episode. Let's go.

What does matter to me is that you get better fucking internet when you move to Milwaukee, dude.

Seriously.

I wish I could verify that right now, but I can't.

Are you still on dial-up?

No, I'm not on dial-up, motherfucker.

Goddamn it.

Yeah, for— I mean, I guess the people listening, I— my internet went out in the last episode. You guys probably noticed if you were listening in.

Yeah, because Anna picked up a phone in the other room and your dial-up internet went out.

She had to call her mom.

I actually believe that's what happened. She was on the internet and then it stopped working. So whatever, maybe this is a sign that I'm moving. This is it. I need to move. That's what it's saying.

So, so say more about moving.

Yeah.

What's going on there?

Okay, well, there's so much I guess to say about that. Well, I'm going to practice raw authenticity today. One of the scariest— thank you.

Mm-hmm.

One of the scariest parts, I think, about like doing this podcast, like, I love just chatting with you guys, and in the back of my head, I know that other people are gonna be listening in. And I love what Thomas said. It's like the thing that I'm practicing is just like giving authenticity, even though it might be like scary or raw or it feels icky. So I'm gonna practice right now. Um, yeah, I am moving, um, because even though I've loved martial arts and Krav Maga and all these other things, um, in my life, I'm finding that it doesn't serve me the same exact way that it used to. And that's, I mean, a mixed bag of feelings. I've done, you know, that type of work since I was 5. I've lived pretty much here since I was 5. My relationship is actively molding and changing. My partner is going to school for architecture. I keep calling it archaeology by accident, so I have to— And yeah, I think the— it feels like I have— I'm bringing a new identity with me because I'm also moving. And I'm faced with like hard conversations and I'm figuring out places to live. I'm moving all at the same time. I'm still continuously doing my inner work that I've always been doing. I'm trying to like grow in my business and do all these other things. And it's all moving really rapidly, but I think like, simply put, I'm moving to Milwaukee because I believe it's more aligned for me. It has less to do with other people and it has more to do with myself. Yeah, and I'm already noticing like, for me, like, in this space and in other spaces, like, I'm bringing more of my energy, which is really great. But I'm equally as frightened. Um, right now to just like be in a new environment and with new people and regrow different community. Um, yeah, in the city of Milwaukee. So, um, that's where I'm currently at. And yeah, I don't actually know what else to say about it except for I'm excited and I'm scared at the same time.

Yeah. Yeah, man. It's big work. Like it's big. And the moving piece is like, Packing up your belongings and moving to a new city is just the surface level. Yeah, right. But like all the identity stuff that I heard you talking about, this is what I've done since I was 5.

Yeah.

Right. And, you know, kind of like your place of origin, this is where you're from. Like you have roots there, you have history there. And to up and move, that's the big work, man. And I hear you taking that on really from a place of empowerment. I love it, man.

It's really inspiring.

Thank you. I really appreciate it. And it's also not like, lost on me that many people, especially like, you 3 in particular, like, have caused this like, shift in me in different ways. I think like, one of the recent tipping points was like, I was experiencing like, a large amount of depression. Actually, I don't think I've talked about it on here. So quick recap, I did some plant medicine work in January, And it had me face really hard parts, um, that I couldn't be with, uh, from past experiences, like how I showed up in relationship with women, uh, how I used to treat other people, just like rushing to the next thing. A lot of like ungrounded energy, a lot, a lot of different examples that I can point to, but I didn't know how to forgive myself with working through that. And so— Excuse me. Um, Man, my body's like reacting to it.

Mm-hmm.

I just was like really depressed. Like, I became depressed 'cause I didn't know what to do with all those like big feelings. And the bigger catalyst that actually shifted me wanting to move and like where I'm at right now is I was in San Diego with Wes and I was like actively in the middle of my depression. And Wes, like, gave me an insane amount of unconditional love. Um, and I can't even, like, fucking tell you guys, like, what that meant for me. Like, to have the circumstances happen the way it did for me to be with Wes in person. But for him to, like, not let me off the hook about, like, not sharing my feelings. He was so fucking good about that. And like I said, you guys have all done different things, and I'm not trying to shy away from it. I just remember, like, this was, like, a tipping point, you know?

And, uh...

Wes listened to me for like hours talking about random shit that I've never shared with anybody else. And he like just loved me through all of it. And I remember he said the phrase, something along the lines of like, yeah, you should have left like, like 2 years ago or something. And like, that was like the shift for me of like, oh wait, I can actually like do that even though like it seems scary. So. Um, yeah, I wouldn't be here without you guys. I wouldn't be here without the experiences and I wouldn't be here without unconditional love. Um, so I'm really happy and yeah, thanks for letting me take some space and talk about it. Makes, yeah, it makes my heart feel good. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Really appreciate you sharing about that, Smith. And like, uh, yeah, it means a lot to me because I think during that time I was also going through Like my own, like, form of burnout and depression. And like, when there would be moments of like, I've been so burnt out and doing so much shit, but have I actually like accomplished anything or done anything real during this time?

Hmm.

And looking back, it was like, oh, like, I at least like helped cause this thing for Smith and like held him through that. So that was really meaningful for me to have. And yeah, I'm glad about this kind of like natural theme that's emerging too, because I just remembered, and I knew I wanted to talk about it on the podcast before, but I, I spent a night at Chris's place in Santa Cruz. And we did a little mini dose in the morning of mushrooms that was like way fucking stronger than either of us expected.

Oh boy.

Yeah, but it was like, it was maybe a month or so after my last ceremony, and it was like, um, bringing up all this like chronic pain stuff that I used to face as a kid. And I was, I was fucking going through it. It was like I was on a call with my coach, like every like joint and muscle in my body was fucking like aching and cramping. And afterwards I did— I have this thing where I like get nauseous and I just kind of stay nauseous. And Chris, like, has just, like, through his recovery, like, just become, like, the most fucking grounded person ever. Um, and, like, was just really able to, like, hold me through it and ground me through it in this very, like, very, like, firm and yet loose, like, masculine way of, like, hey, like, I got you. We're good. I'm not going to get sucked into this shit with you either. But like, here, like, smell the sage and like, breathe. And yeah, he like single-handedly like brought me back down to earth from this experience. And that was just really, really beautiful to like, also to like feel held by you in that moment. And also it felt like to kind of feel the culmination of your transformation in that moment.

Yeah.

Yeah, just really beautiful.

Yeah. I'm, I'm gonna also like touch on that, Chris. Like Wes and I have talked about this a couple times where it's like your groundedness, totally freaking different. Like I experience you as like wise elder sage. Um, you still bring like the dad, you know, energy too, um, at the same time. But yeah, you're Your level of groundedness is so immensely different. I think it really speaks to like how you've navigated your cancer treatment. It's really fucking inspiring for me. Truly.

Thank you. Yeah, I, I received that, um, from both of you and I let it in and I see it too. And sometimes honestly, it's hard for me to accept it when I see it. You know, it's like, oh, it's just a story I'm telling myself sometimes, is the thought, right? That's the narrative that's going in my head. But man, I'm super happy that I was able to be there for you in that moment, Wes. And I'll tell you, that for me was also a little scary too. And I'll tell you why. You know, a big part of my— a big part of what I've been working through, cancer aside, in the past couple of years has been kind of my spiritual path. And what it was for decades of my life up until, you know, relatively recently and all the reinvention that's going on there. And that's what I'm hearing, you know, in your kind of what you're working through, Sumit, as well as like this massive opportunity for reinvention. For me, this kind of reinventing my relationship to spirit and with universe and that which is greater than us hasn't been super straight line. It hasn't been easy. And a big thing that I took away from my very first Alchemy of Men retreat. which was over a year ago, was the power of ritual. Right? It's something that I always kind of stepped away from a little bit. I always held kind of a bad connotation, a bad story in my head about just about ritual. And what I left that retreat from was like, hey, not only is ritual a really cool thing, it's a very powerful structure for how we relate to spirit. but you also get to create your own if you want to. Like, it doesn't have to be something that someone else gives you. And that was kind of the story in my head, was like, someone else is gonna tell me how I'm supposed to do it right in terms of relating to spirit, right?

Yeah.

So I took all of, you know, I took the time after that retreat, and I've— and it's still in evolution, but just kind of working through for me how I work with sage, how I work with Palo Santo, how I work with mantra, how I work with prayer, how I work with all these things. But I never shared it with anyone. This was a— this is a private practice, is a private ritual for me alone. And so when Wes was going through his experience, it was like instinct. I went and I ran and I grabbed my sage and I grabbed my Palo Santo and I basically performed my personal ritual. I shared it with him. And it scared the crap out of me because it was like, it was almost like I was letting him see a part of myself that I'd never never let anyone else see before. But, you know, obviously I was doing it to be in service. And so that was like— and then I sat there and just watched how that practice, how my bringing forth that practice and that ritual, the effect that it had on you in that moment and how it just really brought you down and grounded you and anchored you a little bit and gave you what you needed. And I was like, holy shit, this is like powerful magic work.

Hmm.

And, um, Yeah, it was, it was. So as much as I received the reflection that you gave me, Wes, just now, and how impactful that was for you, it was equally impactful for me because now I feel liberated to share much more openly that part of myself with anyone, with all of you, with, you know, and I don't feel blocked there anymore, like I have to hold it. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Some good shit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That, that really, really is all of your shares. It's been beautiful to, to watch and listen and witness. Um, and, and Chris, just you sharing just now, uh, like, just all, like the, the, the, the spectrum, if you will, of how you've been navigating Um, your own spiritual growth and how you're allowing yourself to share that, the, the, the process of evolution with people that you love and care about. Like, that is very, very inspiring for me and, and very aligned, I feel, with where I'm headed in my own journey. Uh, specifically regarding professional coaching and human development work. All of us here are credentialed coaches through ICF, the International Coaching Federation, and it's really primarily focused on mindset development, ontology, that sort of thing. But it's really doing a lot of Uh, talking like it's, it's, it's talking head stuff. Uh, and it's, it's very transformative for sure. Very, very impactful work. And just like my own, where my own journey has and evolution has brought me up to this point is, you know, I got to a point. You know, I've had my own battles with depression and anxiety over the last couple of years, and it's an ongoing journey. It's an ongoing battle. It ebbs and flows. And last December, I started feeling some of those symptoms and sensations coming back. And I was like, my, my, instinct was, I gotta do, I gotta do more of the work. Like, the work is, the work is ongoing. But what shifted for me was the type of work. Because I realized in that moment that I didn't need more mindset work. I didn't need more mindset shifting, you know, or anything in that realm of development. What was happening in that moment was my nervous system was haywire.

Sure.

You know, my nervous system was in chaos, and that was affecting and impacting how I was thinking even about myself at an identity level. So I realized that I— the work that I needed to do in that moment was shifting my energetic state, right? And I started practicing doing, you know, more breathwork. And, you know, in the last, you know, couple of years, and many of you have mentioned plant medicine, like I've been doing a lot more of that work to help regulate my nervous system and regulate my emotions, my emotional wellbeing. And That has been extremely transformative to the degree that I'm now exploring ways to integrate breathwork and plant medicine work into my offerings as a coach, because the talking head stuff is great. It's very impactful. I did it. I, you know, I did that a lot. I did a lot of that for, you know, now 7 going on 8 years. And I also recognize the, the, the impact and the power of like really going deeper into that, that deeper embodiment work. And, you know, with, with plant medicine, with our breath, which is, I believe, our inner pharmacy, you know, that we, that we have access to all the time. Uh, so So, so thank you. I'll say, Chris, for modeling, uh, where I feel my journey is headed. Like, you're already, you're already in it. You're already modeling it for me. And so thank you.

Thanks for that share, man. Love you, brother. That's powerful, powerful work.

Yeah.

I can't help it. Like, first of all, I want to give you all a big hug. And second of all, I can't help but notice that like, It's almost synchronous how all 4 of us were going through some stuff, like, at the same time.

Mm-hmm.

You know? And, like, was Mercury in the microwave? Like, I don't know. But it's—

I don't know.

I don't know what it was, but it's like all of a sudden, all 4 of us just had something in our space. And now we get— you know, I sense that we're all kind of emerging from it and coming out of it Completely different, completely transformed in some way or another. It's really cool stuff how this whole transformation thing works.

Oh, fuck right. Yeah, I, I think I have so much to share on that. I think that's kind of like what I've been sharing like with you guys about like being with our darkness. Like our darkness builds something totally different in our world. And for literally so many years, I was like, run away from darkness completely. And I also think our society, like, has this thing with darkness. Like, if we feel bad or we feel upset or whatever, like, there's not a lot of capacity to be with it. Like, people are like, oh, what's wrong? Let me solve it. Or let me, like, bypass it or whatever. Um, but what I particularly love, um, about my relationship, like, with you 3, um, is that I've always, like, felt held. Yeah, with like love and grace with you all. And I also think it's amazing like how we're all like willing to go there and not like shy away from it even when it's hard. Yeah, I mean, to no avail, we don't do it perfectly, but I think that's like the part of the process is like we just gotta show up and like give it our all and do our best. Yeah, I mean, like, I've— What's coming up for me right now is like all the moments that we've had with each other. Like from when I met Freddie for the first time. By the way, I don't know if you guys know this. I saw a psychic. Um, it was like in July or some shit. And they're like, yeah, you're gonna meet a Leo in the month of August. So it's like the next month, right? And they're gonna like totally change your life. They're gonna be one of your best friends. And I was like, okay, cool. Like I asked everybody else in my fucking life. Freddie joined our men's group in August. Uh, on your birthday? Was it on your birthday?

I think it was on my birthday.

Yeah. Yeah. And I never fucking asked him when his birthday was. And it was like 9 months. And then we were at a ceremony together and I was like, when's your birthday? And he's like, oh yeah, this date. And I was like, are you a Leo? And he's like, yeah, I'm a Leo. And then I like, my mind was blown. But like from that moment, like Freddie came to one of our retreats and he was going through depression, which like now I really get like what this dude might have had to face, right? In order to navigate through that shit, show up, Like how I met you 2 guys down in San Diego. Like, I was not supposed to be there. Like, I literally got asked a day before to come sub in for this gal. Actually, no, I think it was 3 days before, but like crazy, crazy close, right, to time. And I was not supposed to be there. And now Chris, you, Wes, Nima, you guys are like my closest people. Yeah. And I'm also still— I— this memory never leaves me of like Wes screaming into the world like, this shit's all made up. Like, there's moments like that. There's moments of like, uh, Chris, we just had a moment in San Diego, um, for the, the program me and Wes were in, uh, where I got to see you. And that was so fucking special for me.

Yeah.

'Cause I like, uh, part of it for me, I was like, man, I wish I could be there more for Chris. I'm not doing enough for Chris. Um, and I would do like my energetic rituals and, you know, stuff like that. But that meant so much for me. And then you also at the same time still like perfectly held me.

Yeah.

Um, and I think like I'm just so present to like what connection does when connection is fully open. Um, which is why I love that you're like so inclined for like bodywork. I know all of us are, right? Like in different ways. But like Friday, like you really stepped into that realm, like embodiment work. Um, It's become a large part of like my practice. Like, I was just sharing a few stories with you guys before we got started, um, and holy fuck, like, I love transformational work, but I'm like, how— embodiment work just literally deals with a different core set of wounds, and it also has to deal distinctly with the, like, the nervous system. I'm like, how did I, you know, navigate world— the world before doing this? So—

Right.

Yeah, it's like I'm present to all the amazing great loving stuff that we've created by also like stepping into our own darkness. It's actually ridiculous, but I think it's a great model of like what can happen for people when they actually do that really scary shit. And now I'm complete. Now I feel good.

And to kind of paint a fuller picture, like, so The moment that Smit's talking about, he came to see me when I was in the middle of my cancer treatment. I was on, I think it was on like week 5 out of my 7 and a half weeks that I was in treatment. And man, just, it brightened everything about that day and that week just to have him there. Smit, I don't know if we've said on the podcast before, but you've shared before your name means smile.

Yeah.

Right? And anyone who's ever met Smit, or if you see him on the— if you're watching on YouTube right now, he's just got the biggest, brightest smile, like, ever. There you go.

There it is.

The biggest, brightest smile ever. And to have that smile walk in through that front door. And of course, I had so much love and support from Monica, my wife, and from all the family members who were there and everything. But it was really such a special treat and a really uplifting moment for me. For you to be able to be there for me in that moment. And yeah, it's— and what I'm hearing you kind of put forth is, it's like one of those laws of nature that you can't— energy can't be destroyed, right? It just transforms and it changes and it kind of passes around. So I think about this sort of the energy of love is a closed circle and it just flows backwards, forwards, all around, you know, from one person to another.

Mm-hmm.

If we let it, right? If we open ourselves up to it, allow it to flow out of us and allow it to flow into us. And everything that we've talked about in this very unplanned, unstructured conversation so far in this episode of the podcast has been about that. It's been about how we all experience that energetic exchange of love. And it's just like, it's, it's, it's everything in life. Like Wes screaming into the void, everything is all made up. This is like the one thing that's not made up. The best.

The best moment.

The one thing that's not made up is, is this exchange, this interchange of love and community and, and togetherness. Um, and that's what I, you know, in our last podcast, one of the things Thomas asked us is like, why do you do this podcast? And that's a big part of it for me is I get to spend some really, really good, deep quality time with men that I love dearly. Um, you know, I get to pour into you, you get to pour into me. And it's, uh, it fills me up.

Yeah.

You know, uh, this, this reminds me of, um, so Chris, you know, there's a show that you and I have connected on.

Yeah.

Oh yeah. Uh, on Netflix, Love on the Spectrum. And, uh, I won't really get too deep into that conversation for, for this episode, but In, in thinking about how much I love that show and just the energy and the frequency of that show, it reminds me that love itself is a spectrum. And what I love about listening to all of your shares and all of your experiences, you know, with each other, holding each other, supporting each other, um, in—

Wow.

It, it, it's a beautiful reminder of Like the light and the dark of love.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Even in our darkest moments, those are the opportunities where we get to, like, crack ourselves open and allow the light in. Like the light that each of us are, you know, we can be there for one another when one of our lights dim a bit, you know? And, you know, I'll be honest, there's a little bit of, you know, just kind of listening to your stories, there was a little bit of FOMO from my end, like wanting to— wanting more of that holding and wanting to hold all of you more and be there for you, each of you more, and you be there for me and me allow you.

Just move your ass to San Francisco and you can have a little—

Oh, here we go.

That's all it takes.

Yeah, I knew that.

That's another story. Wes has an agenda to get me to move to San Francisco. That started at our last ceremony together. But yeah, just witnessing all of the love that you have for each other, and I'm happy and grateful to be a part of that. And it's a reminder for me that I get to allow my darkness to be seen even more. Like, I get to lean into that vulnerability with all of you. Uh, even more than I have. And, um, I, I guess in, in some ways that's a request for you to sort of hold me to that. And Smith does a really good job of checking in with me on, on, on the dark side. Uh, 'cause I think he, he, he kind of enjoys my darkness a bit more than I do.

It's fun. I love other people's darkness more than my own sometimes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, there's, well, one, I don't know if I've ever said this to you, Freddie, but now is a better time than ever. I think I, well, first, like, I guess for context for everybody else, like, I think you in particular kind of cracked open my Um, relationship with like male intimacy. Like, I just felt like it was super like grounded and safe. Um, yeah, it was really special. Um, yeah, and you were like the first person where I like inherently said I love you without saying anything else before or after. Like, dude, I love you, or like anything else.

Like, I love you, bro.

Yeah, yeah, it was it. Like, it wasn't that shit. And I was just like, oh, I'm cool with being with that because this person, like, is a really great example of that.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and I think I've actually had it, like, in my space, um, that I'm like, man, I don't know if I can perfectly do it, uh, with Freddie, like, with him. And I actually have some, like, judgments, uh, around that. And I think part of it kind of stems from, uh, that medicine ceremony. Uh, Freddie and I had a dark interaction, I guess, uh, That's an understatement. Basically, yeah. I mean, I'm sure you have your own side to it, but my side was there was something that literally alarmed me. I'll just leave it at that. And then I had a panic attack, and then I was in some sort of not right mental state, and then I kind of just blew Freddie off unknowingly. And I, in that moment, I felt Like, I really turned into, like, a little boy. Like, I just felt my little fucking boy come out.

Mm-hmm.

Which was a very interesting thing to be with. 2 things that I learned from that experience was, one, I need to, like, voice my authentic emotions there, like, even when I'm upset or angry, and be okay with other people being like, oh wait, this person's going through something. Because in my head, I was like, I can't say that. I can't, like, put that on somebody else.

Mm-hmm.

And then number 2, what it also had me like really realize, like, I still get to take ownership regardless of the situation, which I didn't really have as much access to. But yeah, part of the reason that I'm like bringing that up is like, I have some of those things, I've worked through it, and I think I'm now, I'm at a place of like, man, I really care for you. I wish I like, there's part of me that's like, man, I wish I had even more capacity for alignment. with you. At this current point, I feel like I don't, and I'm sorry. Oh.

Well, what I'll say from my side of that, what I call a breakdown at that ceremony, was that it confronted me with some of my own darkness that wasn't even about you. And in hindsight, I can look at that experience and have the utmost gratitude and even more love for you for sort of being that mirror that showed me what I needed to see and what I needed to face and confront and address so that I could have— The meltdown, ultimately, the emotional meltdown that I had in that moment, like, I needed to have that. I needed to have that in that moment at that time. And it wouldn't have happened without you. And we had, you know, we've had our conversations, we've had our clearings, and like, we're even We're exponentially even better now than we were before that, uh, you know, having had that experience. And, uh, it, it was just a beautiful— it was, it was a beautiful, uh, example of embracing the light in the dark, you know?

Yeah.

Uh, what I've— like, the, the journey, my journey of learning how to embrace the light and the dark. Um, and just to kind of circle it back, you know, the light and the dark of love, which is ultimately what this is. Deep, deep, powerful love.

Thank you. Yeah, I really receive that.

I hear you.

Um, yeah, yeah, I could feel it like melting into my heart slowly. Yeah. What I'm also, I guess, like present to right now as we're talking about it, it's like, That also comes from like me believing that I'm not enough, you know, sometimes.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I see that's like, you know, an edge for me. And yeah, I think, like I said, there's just like so much bigness that I experience with every single one of you that I'm like, I really got to do it perfect, you know, with these guys because I care so much. And sometimes I put a lot of pressure on it because I do care about you guys so much. Like, it's in that same way, it is also not lost on me that you also chose this relationship right now. Um, and I, I firmly believe that I will always choose you guys no matter what. And it's scary to think that anybody has autonomy to ever leave me. Like, that's one of my really core fears, you know? Um, and it's like not about anybody except for myself. You know, I get to like fill up my cup first. So yeah, yeah, I think that's something for me to continue to play with. Yeah, and I hope you really all just know like how much I care about you and the depths of the world that I'm willing to run for, for you all. Yeah.

And then Wes. Um, I'm thinking now of a moment from our last, uh, journey together. Um, there was this beautiful moment where, um, we were, we were on the, we were sitting on the floor and there were a few people around us and they were just kind of like listening. You were, I think we were both speaking or you were speaking, somebody was speaking and then you just started like, expressing your experience of my love. And you were sharing with people, it's like, man, this dude right here, he just loves me so fucking much. And I think I was holding you at the time that you were saying that. And I just— it was just this— I'm kind of feeling it right now. There was this inner energy, energetic burst, like a burst of energy coming from within me as I was listening to you share your experience of my love. And in that moment, I was just like— I could just breathe and just like, oh, I'm so glad that He knows it and, and, and knows it to the degree where he can, where he's comfortable to share that with other people. 'Cause that's so, so rare and difficult for men to do. Uh, and, you know, like I shared, uh, in the last episode with, um, with Thomas, when he asked us why we're here, you know, I shared I have a deep craving for male intimacy. And that's part of what brings me here, is part of what has me so deeply connected with each of you. And so I just— that moment will stay with me forever. That's because, yes, yes, I do. in fact, love the fuck out of you.

Yeah, I was thinking of that exact moment too, as Smith was sharing. And yeah, what I was sharing beyond that, I was like, this guy loves me so fucking much that it's like confronting for me. Because it's like, when I like, can't fully be with like, how lovable I am, or like don't see it in the moment, or maybe I'm like blocking intimacy for whatever reason. I'm like, ah, what is that? Stop that.

Stop it.

Why are you loving me so much?

Weirdo.

Yeah, but Freddie, like, you're just so like steady with it. It's like, it's this really beautiful, pure way where it's like strong and steady, but has no like expectation or like weight. Yeah, I'm like getting, I'm like feeling moved right now just talking about it because I feel like—

Mm-hmm.

For so much of my life, like intimacy is so intertwined with weight and burden. And you just have this way of giving love that's like, I fucking love you and I don't actually, like, need anything from you. I just fucking love you.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I'll second that. From my— what I'm learning in, in as it relates to love is Love without expectation, right? And it's been my own story in my own head for so much of my life that if someone loves me, that there is something expected of me in return, whatever that might be, whatever the situation is. And exactly what Wes said, from my experience of you, Freddie, is there is no expectation. It's simply you standing from a place of this incredible surplus of love. You have an endless supply of love in your bucket and you're just pouring it out. And there's no, there's no expectation. There's no, I don't even want to say strings attached, but it's just like, it's almost as if you pour out this love because you love loving.

Yeah.

And that's probably it. Maybe that's it. I don't know. But there's no, like, there's no agenda there. There's no, asking in return. It's just, here, I have this love and I want to give it to you. And it's, it's pure and beautiful and innocent. It's almost childlike in how it comes through. And it's just, it's, it's so incredibly powerful. I learned a lot about what it means to love in general, and especially to hold love for other men from how you approach me. I really, really thank you for that.

Mm-hmm.

Thank you. All of you.

Wow.

Yeah.

I mean, I'll go ahead. Do you want to go? You go.

You go, Smit.

Well, I was just going to say, like, I, I love, uh, yes, we do plant medicine experiences, but the, that saying of like, we actually are the medicine, like always rings true for me. Like I've had more moments outside of medicine with you guys and it always feels like we're Like we're on medicine. Well, Wes is actually on something right now, but minus that, that part, uh, I, um, yeah, I'm just really appreciative that, you know, we can get to that state. Um, yeah, with each other always. It's really fun.

It's what I love. That's what I really, really love about this plant medicine work is it, it shows you what's possible.

Yeah.

Right? It's a portal. It's a bit of a doorway into a completely expanded way and a different way of being with ourselves first and foremost, and also with the people around us and the people that we love. And, you know, the real magic is when, you know, you take it into everyday life, when it becomes fully integrated and it shifts how you show up in life. So, yeah, but I completely second that, Smith, is like, Those are marvelous experiences that we get to enjoy together, and it's all the space in between is where the magic really happens.

Yeah. And, and yeah, it makes me really excited just soon. Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Freddie.

No, you, you, you finish.

Oh wait, it's Freddie. It's my turn.

Yeah.

Your turn.

Your turn. Are you sure? Are you sure?

Sure.

Okay.

Your turn.

Um, I'm just gonna like my, Thanks. Uh, my note around it was like, man, I'm so excited to see you guys in person. Like, knocking on wood that everything just works out, you know, divinely, um, perfectly for us, uh, so we can all see each other. But man, it makes me so excited to, yeah, just have more experiences like these with you guys.

Yeah.

And I don't even remember what I was gonna say now, but yeah, feeling Yeah, let us know if it comes back.

I'm feeling called to share that, uh, for me, I just finished up 3 years of, uh, working with this life coaching program that, uh, Chris and Smith and I graduated from, uh, Accomplishment Coaching. And One, every year my senior program leader, Denise Yamada, just a brilliant, incredible human. She really taught me what unconditional love meant, which like really meant a lot to me, means a lot to me, like because my main wound is from my mom.

Mm-hmm.

And to feel like her unconditional motherly love and be like, oh, right. Like, that's it. Like, that's the truth. And that's what we're really all here for. She says every year toward the end of, hey, like, we do all this training on tools, and we teach you to be good coaches, and we train you with skills. But if all you get from this program is that you are already always loved, then I have fully done my job. And I think that's actually one of the kind of unspoken things that makes a coach truly great is to actually be able to love somebody unconditionally.

Yeah.

Through all of their shit, all of their darkness, all of the inner child parts kind of freaking out or whatever. Like, to see and love all of that is like— that's just where the magic actually happens. And Yeah, it's no wonder you're an MCC, Freddie, because you are a master of loving for sure.

Oh, thank you. And I remember what I was going to say now. Um, we often hear, uh, plant medicine facilitators say this, uh, right before we actually do the medicine. And that is that there's, there's actually 2 types of medicine. There's the actual medicine itself that we take, and then there's the medicine of the community.

Mm-hmm.

And so, so, Smith, like, your, your share earlier about, like, you know, our experiences of each other outside of the ceremonies, yes, that's because, like, the, the love that we share for each other Like, that is medicine that will sustain us always. It will always sustain us, um, in ceremony, out of ceremony. Like, that's just, you know, that's just the bond that, that we, that we share. And I'll— since we're sharing moments from ceremony, uh, another moment that I'll never forget. is our first ceremony together, the, the day after during integration where we were, where we had that, that circle. And we, we, we had that, we shared that group hug and that group circle. And it was just, it was just such a beautiful moment that, you know, it was one of those unforgettable moments that I will definitely cherish. for the rest of my life. And it was— I believe that was sort of like the genesis of this, you know, was that moment.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm so thankful that we were all there. And then also, like, super thankful for Chris for, like, being so inspired by our interaction to, like, make this something regular for us. And then also, like, for other people to, like, witness. Yeah, like, I'm— I'll die on this hill. Like, you know, we're not perfect, but like, literally, we are practicing right now. Like, we're always like our— I feel like our capacity always morphs into something bigger and brighter. It's really amazing. And it happens from like connection with each other. So like, thanks, Chris, for your creativity and your brilliance, because I think— Your eye for connection and your eye for like changing the world, like literally is doing that in real time right now.

Wow.

Thank you. I, I'll be candid. I have a hard time receiving that. Um, 'cause I think it's the bigness of it that scares me a little bit, but I really am grateful, um, for that reflection. And I'm grateful to all of you. This is Um, whatever, whatever was said or whatever part of my being that came through, I, I feel like it was channeled, like it was spirit speaking through me. It wasn't me. It was, um, there was something bigger than me or bigger than us that was just kind of moving among us, as sometimes happens when you sit with medicine. Um, but, um, But yeah, that was— I too feel, I firmly believe that that moment and that experience really kind of crystallized what this has become and what it will continue to become in the future. And what I love about it is, as you were saying, Freddie, there's the deep access that you get From a medicine experience.

Mm-hmm.

Right. And then there's all the space in between the community. The integration, of course, is absolutely critical for any of these sorts of experiences in the space in between, but also just the connection, the connectivity. Um, you know, it's, it's, it's It's almost inexplicable. It's almost, you can't put into words the depth and the breadth and the height and the length of, of the love that comes from sharing these sorts of experiences. And I'm not talking about just medicine. I'm talking about these conversations that we have, right? The connection that we have.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I often say, you know, I, I'm, Monica and I have been married here for several years now, but it's a second marriage for both of us. We learned a lot in our practice marriages. And we often say to each other, I almost feel guilty having the sort of relationship that we have and looking around and seeing how many people are just really suffering in their relationship. But that, that like expansive, supportive, connected way that she and I have found to be, I feel so much the same with each of you and with all of you.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and, and it's, for me, that's a big part of why I felt moved to kind of offer this to you all as an option. Hey, why don't we start a podcast together so that we could share it? Like, this is amazing what we have. What's a way that we can share it with the world and maybe someone else can pick up on it, right? We can spread the joy and spread the love a little bit. So that I think is some of the, like I was saying at the beginning of my rambling here, Smith, is like the bigness of it. That's part of what honestly scares me a little bit sometimes is the bigness of it. But, you know, one of the things that I'm learning is my capacity to hold big things.

Hmm.

You know, Yeah. So yeah, it can—

You're really good at that also.

Yeah.

Well, I've— the universe has given me practice, you know, with, with my cancer journey and with some other things. But, but yeah, I'm learning how much I actually can hold.

I do have to put this in. I sent Chris like an Instagram reel around like Shiva who was holding Kali and Kali was raging fire everywhere and Shiva just held Kali and Kali returned to, you know, Shakti, just divine. Divine feminine, grounded divine feminine. Chris, my experience of Chris, one of the nights we were doing a ceremony was he was completely Shiva, which is also crazy because I literally, at the start of the ceremony, I called upon Shiva because I've never asked for Shiva's presence. And he gave me it in form of Chris, Chris Grinstedt. It was crazy. Yeah.

Well, Chris, can I, can I offer you something in that, in, in this, uh, like, I guess it would be, uh, an insight or perspective around the bigness?

Sure, please.

Um, we, we often, when we think of spirituality, we often think in terms of, uh, and we use the language of something bigger than. Or something greater than ourselves.

Mm-hmm.

I have been in the practice of thinking more in terms of, instead of bigger than or greater than, bigger with, greater with.

Mm-hmm.

Because the, the, the spiritual, uh, energy is not something that is separate from us. It is a part of us. You know, like, one of my favorite interviews that I watched recently was with Neil deGrasse Tyson when he was on Diary of a CEO. And he talked about the bigness and the vastness of the universe and that we're made up of the same stuff as the universe. So it's not that we are alive, or not only that we are alive in the universe, It's that the universe is alive within us.

Hmm.

And so he says, when I look up at the sky and look up at the stars and just the vastness of the universe, I don't feel small. I feel large because I'm made up of the same stuff. So when I think of spirituality, I don't think of it in terms of, oh, this is something bigger than me or greater than me. It's bigger with me and greater with me because I am part of it and it is part of me.

Yeah, man. I, um, that really lands. I can, that reframe is super powerful for me. Um, and you know, we're all in our work. Like I have so much unlearning to do, you know? So much relearning to do. And, you know, I think that's true for all of us in all of our various unique ways. It's like, that's what, that's what we get to do in this life.

For sure.

Right. Is to, is to unlearn, to unpackage, to unbecome.

Yeah.

What, you know, I had a, I had a conversation the other day with someone about, you know, the work that we do about coaching. And I was like, it's not about Becoming anything. It's about unbecoming what you're not.

Yeah, it's so cool. One of the things that rung true for me, I've been juggling with this because I actually hate the word coach right now. I don't like it at all. I don't think it actually describes what the fuck we do. I don't think it describes the depth of the experience. I don't know what else to fucking call it, so I'm still calling it coaching. But—

And nobody— and when you say it to people, nobody knows unless they are a coach. Nobody knows what the fuck it is. And So they're always like, what is a coach? What is a life coach? What is that? Yeah.

Yeah. It actually makes me pissed off because it's like, you know, part of coaching is using language to be able to hit someone's being and align with them. So I'm like, why the fuck is the word coach the most unaligned shit that you can possibly give somebody in this world? It's just like, what? It's crazy. But the transformation's insane for people that are willing and open to it, for sure.

Okay, so I would put this out there. I love that, Smit, and I would put this out there. The next time that the 4 of us are together in person, yeah, one, we, we, one of our intentions I would offer could be for us to put language to what it actually is. If it's not coach.

Dude, I can't wait. And we better do it right because otherwise Wes will be like, we probably need to change the name. With anything I've ever done, Wes is like, you should probably change that name, like, at some point. Oh my God, that name does not actually cut it.

Yeah, it's almost like he's a professional writer or something.

It's actually kind of funny. I feel like Wes, like literally anything I've ever done, Wes is like, nah, you should probably change that. Yeah.

Oh, it's so awesome.

Oh man.

Yeah. The last thing that I, I mean, I have to, I'm so excited to tell. talk about and be, uh, is, uh, be with is like this idea of like a rites of passage. We kind of talked about it in this podcast before. We talked about it, um, our own individual timelines before too. But, um, yeah, like, I love how connected to spirit we all are. Like, um, rituals, like for you also, Chris, like all these elements I think are intertwined for us. Um, Yeah. If we're doing— Wes and I are doing a, like a men's rites of passage and I'm by the way, so fucking excited for it. Um, no coincidence, I saw a psychic when I was 16, and they told me at the age of 29, uh, is when I'll feel actually mature, uh, energetically.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, lo and behold, I'm turning 29, um, really soon, in a few, few weeks, um, which is insane. And, uh, our facilitator, uh, Bob Conlon, who you also know, Chris, um, He kind of changed up our original plan for it. He was like, hey, I actually want you to bring rituals from lineages that you either resonate with, like, spiritually, or that are actually, like, a part of your culture. And the really crazy shit was, in my culture, when people do rites of passages, it's on, like, the 11th day after their birthday. And that's the last day of our ceremony. And—

It's 11 days after your birthday?

Yes.

Wow.

Yeah. And I'm just really excited for that experience because I'm like, I'm also like, I felt that I'm like, how the bigness, you know, of that experience is for me, it's like I can't even put exact words to it. I'm, I honor it completely. Like I'm always connected to spirit in that way. I honor it completely. But I'm like, man, that's going to be interesting. But I've, I've said this to Chris, but if you guys want to be a part of that experience, I'm just putting out an open invite right now. I just wish I would have told you guys about it earlier. But—

And you're putting that to us here or to anyone, anyone who's listening?

Sure. Anybody who's listening, if you put this episode out fast enough. But yeah, it's on July 2nd in Wisconsin. So hopefully one day you motherfuckers will come to Wisconsin.

I've been to Wisconsin, but whatever.

Yeah, dude.

But seriously, I'm super excited for you. This, this, this rite of passage experience. First of all, Bob is just an amazing human being and such a powerful leader, and you're in incredibly good hands. And man, the work that y'all are going to do, I can't wait. I can't wait. to see what comes out the other side for y'all.

Thanks. Yeah, I feel like our ceremony is going to be like a christening for it. Um, yeah, that's gonna be fun. So yeah, more to come. Um, but yeah, we're about an hour in, so what do you got? What else do you guys want to talk about? Anything else you need to say in order to feel super complete?

I'm feeling pretty complete over here.

Same.

Nice.

Wesley?

Wesley?

Feeling good.

Let's wrap it. All right. Thanks, guys, for some awesome conversations. Yeah, this episode just really hit differently for me. I'm glad we could do this all together and really honor like the reason why, you know, we're all here in the first place. So with that, let's wrap. Thank you all for joining another episode of When Kings Unite, where of course we explore masculinity as medicine, but truly bask in the connection of our presence and our love. So we hope you got something out of it. We know we all did, and we cannot wait to see you in the next episode. Have a great rest of your day and share in the love. Thank you.