Date Your Wife Power Couples Edition

Well, well, well, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the date you Y podcast. So listen, we like to interview powerful couples. Some they say the only ones we interview are ones that are thriving. Oh, that was a little Bing zinger there for you to give you a hint on who's here. But we'd like to ask all the questions they don't typically get asked in any business interview ever, particularly when you have a powerhouse couple that run a dominating multiple eight and even up and higher business system known as thrive, as well as a series of other companies underneath. And I'm sure 500 companies that I don't know about. But we are here to get the real answers to the real question. So we're going to start off quickly, Sandra, where you are first turned into like a game show.

You're like, and you're ready, and you're ready. There we go, Pastor Phil. Here we go.

What is the one thing being in business with your husband that you feel you really sucked at in the beginning but now are pretty damn good at dealing with being married, plus doing business together?

I think it definitely took some time to figure out how we can work together. He would have an opinion on how we should do some marketing, and I would be like, I don't like that. And so there'd be some confrontation. And we learned throughout time that, like, he got to be the CEO of the business and I got to be CEO of the home. So my opinion matters when he asks about marketing, but at the end of the day, he gets to make the final answer. As at home with our kids, if I think something's best for them, I'll ask his opinion.

But you're the same.

But I get to pick what we're going to do with the children. Like, if it's homeschool or whatnot, I'll be like, he'll have his opinion. And I think it worked out a lot easier that way because we were just butting heads so much because I thought I knew best, but I had no idea what I was talking about. But I'm like, this should work. He's like, I already ran all the numbers. It doesn't work. I'm like, but try again. And then we finally figured out the dynamic. I mean, it took like five years.

But so what did this look like when you were not figuring it out? Because this collision that you two are going through almost ended our marriage six times.

We can't work together.

And we know there's like tons of couples that are coming on our show that are. We have couples that come on. Where one is fully supportive. I run the house. I'm not involved in the business at all. And then we got couples that come in where we're both running the business. Or like in our case we're running two different brands which we had to separate our companies because we couldn't work together. Like we just couldn't got honest in our marriage or continue to try and.

Started to get like really warrior esque. And I was like, I think it's time to stop. These are very like.

Get her.

One of our marketing emails was like, this is not your grandma's event. And I was like, wait a minute. This is for hair stylist.

Okay, so what. Let's go to the. We're going to. We're just going to go to the dark days.

Yeah.

Now. Yes. We figured it out. At least we found our lanes prior to finding your lanes and the crossover. Cole was like, for you.

I think the hardest part of working together with my spouse was being able to turn it off. As you guys know, this world of entrepreneurship takes intensity. It takes very much a type aggression. And I would crush a day of work. And I my office from home. So I would take a 14 second commute from my office to the family room and then be like Brighton, pick up your clothes and Sonny, get dinner.

Started and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I would just steamroll my family. And so what has worked well over the years through therapy and through us finally learning how to communicate. We've been together for 15 years and we figured it out like in the last year, like she and I were like, whoa, we actually know how to talk to each other now.

Yeah.

And it wasn't the therapy. It's like the practice and the reps. Right. Was that she communicated to me that I needed to find some sort of an off switch that I can do what I need to do in a very cutthroat world in the industries that I'm in, of the businesses that you do not own, that you don't. That are not easy and not for the faint of heart and being able to flip a switch and being soft and loving and understanding and wanting to hear about her girl drama, like, oh, you'll never believe what Ashley said today or Jen and like actually not just showing up, but actually caring like finding a part of me, no offense, that after I've had a rough day and I want her to be sympathetic to me, I have to listen to girl drama and actually care and finding and growing that muscle.

Have you learned to actually Care, Cole.

Don't lie. Yes. No, for real.

Like, today. Today was the first on the way.

Here, like, last March, I would say. But. But so. So that, I think, has been the biggest win in us being a couple that works together and are married. We do oftentimes have to draw boundaries. Usually I am the one. Like, I'm the one that remembers all the dates. She doesn't like people, like, how long have you been married? She's like, two or three years. I'm like, no, it's been 13 years. So I'm the one that cares. And she has this terrible yellow notepad of all of our business to dos. And I would take her on a date, and we'd be sitting there, and then out of her purse, flop would be this yellow pad, and I'd be like, babe, this is not a business meeting. This is a date. Like, let's put that away. This can wait till tomorrow. So it was actually me kind of leading that charge, but we had to figure out how to compartmentalize our life, and how to do that was not easy, but took time, and we're doing better at it now than ever.

How long have we had the long. Have a really go.

Go.

Ask. Ask.

So I can relate so much to, like, Garrett would come home, wanted, like, put out fires, and I was like.

What the hell is going on?

I'm just, like, making food, babe. Like, calm down. Like, so aggressive. And I would tell him, I'm like, I need you to work on your reactivity. But one of the things he said to me, he's like, I want to feel like after a long day of work, that. That I feel loved and appreciated. And I was like, okay, well, yeah, I want you to listen to how I went to Chick Fil a with the kids or whatever I did. But, like, how. How have you. How have you shown up for him to make him feel like, hey, thank you for what you've done during the day? What have you found that. That works for you guys? There's. Because I do find that men are expected to, like, flip the switch, which they should, otherwise their eyes are shut down and be like, why are you yelling at me all the time? But at the. At the end of the road, I'm always like, how can I make sure he feels loved and appreciated for the work and the war that he's going to?

So it's kind of. I don't want to say a generic answer, but for a lot of your audience, they've probably heard of the.

The love.

The love languages Five love languages. And she actually spoke at Thrive about those. I had never heard of the book, and I don't think she had either. But to create content for her talk, she went through the book, like, word by word, right? Like, dissected it to then turn it into a talk. And we realized in that process what our love languages are. And mine is not words of affirmation. I don't need atta boys from her. I need touch and time. And what would piss me off is she might say, like, hey, great job today. And I'd be like, yeah, thanks. But she wouldn't hang out with me. And, like, what means more to me personally than her telling me I'm doing a good job and is, like, sitting next to me silently even, but, like, setting apart time for me and for her, it's acts of service. I am naturally a words of affirmation type of guy. I love giving people compliments. I know that it helps a lot of people. And everybody loves a good compliment, Right? Like, being generous and compliments matters. But what, like, gets her heart going is acts of service. And so we accidentally stumbled upon that through her preparing for a Thrive talk, which actually really did, you know, shout out to. Was it Chapman or whoever the author is of that for creating those five love languages. Because for her just looking for content for a talk, it actually kind of shifted our marriage very early of us understanding how we receive love so then how each of us gives each other love.

So if yours is time and you're working all the time, do you ever, like, mess that up for yourself?

Yes.

Okay. Because it's, you know, like, I'm. Mine is, like, time, too.

Yeah.

But Garrett's is very much like words of affirmation and things like that. And I'm like, okay, well, if you.

Need touch me and talk to me.

If you need all that, then I need time. But he's working all the time.

Yeah.

So then it's like, I get it. In the entrepreneur space, it's like, we want to support our men, and it's like, we don't want to ask for time. We feel like. Like our role is at home. Their role is support, like, out hunting. And so it's like, you have to create time and space as entrepreneurs. Like, even as hard as it sounds, how do you create time with her?

He's so good about creating time. He's like, we're gonna go to lunch. You can bring your yellow notepad. Cause I'm like, if we're together, let's be productive. We don't need to talk about us and the kids and all that stuff. Like, let's do what we got to do. And I. When we did that, when I did that talk, it was so helpful to see. He'd be like, buying me gifts and he'd want to spend time with me, thinking that's, like, what I needed. I'm like, take out the trash for me. I was like, if you take out the trash and I don't have to ask you, I'm like, thank you.

Yeah.

And you're gonna pick up the kids from school, and I don't have to thank you. Like, we were on entire different spectrums and just butting heads all the time. He's like, just hold my hand while we sit here. I'm like, why do I need to hold your hand? Can I, like, wash these dishes and you can talk to me? We're spending time together. Like, we were on such different pages that coming together and, like, finally understanding. I mean, it took some time.

You were in the kitchen cleaning dishes, thinking you're getting points.

Yeah.

I will hire people to watch.

Yes.

And he's like, I don't want you to do any of this. Just, like, be with me. And I'm like, I can't just say, sit here. I don't know what to do. Like, what do I do with myself?

And we have hired people for dishes. But back to your question. One way that we've figured it out is by doing, like, two things at once. For instance, David Goggins and I had a conversation years ago in Canada where he encouraged me to start running because I told him it was my least favorite thing to do. And I've embraced that now. And I run about 20 miles a week. I've ran with him a bunch in Mexico, and so I take about a 5 to 7 mile run each jog. And she doesn't quite go that distance or at my speed.

No, I do not run, period.

But she has a bike. And so I ask her to come with me. And so one of my favorite things to do with my wife ever, because it takes me between 50 and 60 minutes, depending on how many miles we're doing, is she rides her bike literally at my left elbow right next to me. I'm talking the whole time she talks. And usually I'm in good enough shape that I'm talking back to her. Unless we're climbing a hill or something. I'm like, don't talk to me. But then those were the words of affirmation. She'll be like, you're doing great. Like, holy cow, your time is great. But we do that two or three times a week. So that's a couple of hours a week of me doing something I now have learned to love, which is crazy. I was not a runner ever in my entire life. Like, I made fun of people that ran. Like, what are you running from?

Yeah.

But again, Goggins convinced me. And the fact that she hops on her bike and sets that time aside, we usually go mid morning, like 10 to 11. She's got way better things to do than run right around her running husband. But we've figured out those time blocks where I'm not just stoked that I got my exercise in, but that my wife sacrificed an hour of her life to do something that's not her favorite thing to do. Do is again, my love, language. And so one way that we've been able to time block is by doing more than one thing at once. It's not just that we sit on the couch and stare in each other's eyes and it's like, thank you for this time. I don't know that we've ever done that. But it's working her into my daily routine and then vice versa. Me working into my daily routine. Acts of service for her. I take the kids to school every single day, without a doubt, and pick them up a third of the time from school in the afternoon if she's got things going on. And I do a lot of the things that would be like mom duties for her, because I know how stoked she gets from that. And I just make sure to fit it in. And so it's just about sacrifice, prioritizing kid.

He.

If Cole. I just think I was like sitting there one morning, he had a moment, him and God, and they were just talking. He said, you know, we're doing well. Hire a full time person to be here at the house to pick the kids up when she needs curry and do all the things. If all the things were being done by someone that was Cole's right hand man and not Cole. Does Cole still get points in your world? See, this is.

This is what he did. He hired all the people, but it's not the thing.

Yeah, because we already have that person. But I still have to do it.

I was getting so mad at him.

One principle is the most up principle I've ever heard in my life.

Oh, my God, it's horrible to do it.

Okay, talk to me more about this.

Because I hear her cuddle him. Wouldn't that be weird?

I don't know. Guys have been like, this is where it goes. I mean, it goes that direction.

Hire somebody to do that for you.

To call that an escort. And I. I mean, if that's what you're down for, I'm down.

Let's go outsourcing.

If someone else is. If someone else is running with you, it's not the same because he will go with a K and have fun. And then he'll say, oh, my gosh, babe, I just lost an hour. What are you doing? What are the kids doing? Like, he has massive fomo. If. If he's not at our house, he's. He's the exception. He is. I'm like, hey, can I have a minute? And he'll like, I'll go take a shower. And he's in the shower. And I'm like, can I? Can I? He loves. Just keep her.

But are you naked in the shower? You just standing there being weird.

I gotta help her reach all those hard.

How are you gonna wash your back?

And I'm like, babe. And he's like, I just want. And all of my girlfriends are like, I wish my husband did that. And I'm like, do you? Do you really? And so I'm like, now. I just love it. Now we've gotten into this routine where I'm like, okay, I can't be. I have to be home at this time. We have some, like, big deals going through, and if it's a bad phone call, I should be home. Like, I. I know what he needs, and he knows what I need. And it's just.

Okay, so hold on, hold on, hold on. So walk me through this one more time. Because, see, in. In our world, here's how it works. By their fruit, you shall know them. There's no talk of the process to the fruit, just the fruit. Hey, are there strawberries in a bowl? We won. How did they happen? Don't ask that question. They're in a bowl. Eat them.

Fair.

So as a man, I look at her because I'll give you an example. Flowers. She wants flowers, right? Problem is, she talks shit about the flowers. So then, like, oh, she did this over the years. So then I stopped beginning her flowers. She's like, you never get me flowers anymore. It's like, you remember we talked shit. When I was getting the flowers, I started getting the flowers. I think, you don't want them? No, I do want the flowers. I was like, okay. So for about three weeks, I'm getting flowers at Browns.

He was go, go out of his Way I was.

See, there's a key thing. This is where it gets all fucked up. So I. I'm going to Browns, getting the flowers. I'm bringing them back and dropping off just like you showing up today. So beautiful flowers. You're carrying them. It's all Glo, right? So then I get this idea. I'm sitting at Brown's flowers like a hold up. Hey, can. Can I. Do you guys do, like, orders? I get, like, could you just deliver shit? I guess so. Like, could you just. Could you deliver it on two different days every week? Yeah, just make a bouquet up to, like, $150 and just take it to my house.

Now he doesn't have to think about it. And I get flowers every week. And then he says, I can't figure out why I'm mad.

Here's where I fucked it up. I said, could you do it on different days? They said, no. I said, what would it take for us to do it on different days? So it's a change up. So she doesn't know that it's not coming because it's always Monday on Thursday at this time, she knows she's going to know some shit's going down. Take the notes out of it. You can't put the note in there. So then they wouldn't change it up. So then I find out, like, two months after doing this, even though our house looks like the Ritz Carlton of flowers every week. And I'm like. And she talks about she loves her flowers of Ritz Carlton, which you two are heading there to get in a margarita after this. And she says, no points.

I didn't say no points.

You said no points.

Some.

Help me understand. Help all the men out there understand. You two talk amongst yourself.

Perfect example. He's done that. He delivers flowers every Mother's Day, every birthday, when stuff happens. But the most recent bouquet that I got was my favorite. Why? Because he took our daughters to the store, they picked out all these different, like, bouquets. They came home, they were secretly in the garage putting it in this big old base. And my daughters arranged it, and he did it. And they walked in, and I was like, oh, my gosh, I just love it. And that was major husband points, because it's, like, the intention that it took.

I think that women, we want to feel like our husbands are, like, consciously, like, thinking about us. Like, the effort is so important. Right? So once you can outsource it, it. It loses, like, the. The meaning almost. You're just like. You can outsource everything Now I've let it go with, you know, doing dishes, cleaning even. We have, like, a night nanny sometimes.

But I.

Cause I would be, like, so angry that he wasn't contributing more, but I was like, he's working his ass off. So, like, I am fine to hire all this stuff out, and I do a lot of it in the home myself, too. But it. Even it as a woman, it took me a long time to, like, let go of that. Now the flowers, I was like, okay. Like, I still wanted, like, the thought behind the flowers, but I still like them. I still think they're beautiful. Because he goes, well, do you want me to cancel? I'm like, well, no, don't cancel it. But, like, if you want to additionally go actually get flowers on your own, I won't hate that either. Yeah, so it's like. It's embracing that. Like, I like that he is paying for it and setting it up, but also making those other special days or times to go out with your daughters and make that. That effort.

You know, I think as human beings, both men and women, wants to feel thought of, wants to feel cared for, and wants to see effort from their significant other in. However that translates in what you value in your life.

Right.

And so, you know, I hate to not be on your side of the argument, but I can appreciate where she's coming from. Because while flowers are beautiful and the thought matter episode, we bring Cole on, I think if. If Sonia were to put some sort of thing on autopilot with me, and I don't know what that would translate into, it would mean less than seeing her take the effort as well. And so, you know, I think that it's just a matter of not the gift or the act or the flowers or whatever it is, but the intention and the effort behind it that might matter even more.

I agree with you.

Like autopilot sex. Like, there's some days it's just gonna be autopilot, and there's some days I'm like, you're getting a show. Yes, but both matter. We know that our men still appreciate.

I'll take either, but I definitely prefer one over the other.

Exactly.

So I appreciate the flowers, but I'll.

Take more on another day. We all want to be known, loved, and seen.

We do that.

That's the most important part. And I didn't understand that when I needed Cole to do stuff for me, I was like, I just want you. This is how I feel loved. I feel seen. And I think that was a huge part of therapy. She's like, make Cole feel known, loved and seen. I'm like, I could do that. That doesn't sound hard. I mean, it's hard, but it's known, loved and seen.

Because he has this thing with guys. He says, tell me, touch me, fuck me. And he's like, what is it for women? I'm like, we want to be seen, heard and validated. I don't know.

Loved and seen. Yeah, that's a warrior esque version.

There you go. That's the female version. Hey, I hope you're enjoying the show. This quite interrupt here from whatever it was we were talking about. Probably my wife's ass on the Internet or some other thing, like my balls on the Internet. Something in that genre. Listen, inappropriate as it is, what I can tell you is that living the worst way is the background bone to everything we've built. It is the foundational operating system for a man and or a woman to learn how to have it all, every single day. It is the pursuit of freedom in a very systematic and gamified approach. We've been doing it now for 12 years. We've guided tens of thousands of men and women to figure it out themselves too. For a free trial today, go check it out@warriorlaunch.com.

Yeah.

Known, loved. And how would a woman be known? How would you be known? How would Cole be known you, besides biblically terms? Now you're having sex, so get off that topic. What's known? Just how would he know if I would go, hey bro, was she, was she known today? And you're like, let me check the.

I got the answer. Let's see what she says.

Oh, look at this.

Okay, okay.

Couple feud. We're going to see who's got the right answer. I don't even know what you think of it too, because I don't know how you'd be known to you.

You want me to go first?

Yeah, you go.

It's a little personal for her, but I'm sure she'll let me share.

Do I. Maybe I'll go first.

It was Father's Day and we, we love her parents and her dad especially, and they immigrated here and come from a very different culture, which is not lovey, touchy feely. They're very hard. And that's been a huge struggle in our relationship because I'm like, dude, you're like a stone wall. Like, give me some affection. And she's changed tremendously there. But on Father's Day it was now like 5:30 at night and she hadn't even spoken to her dad. And I was like, we're going to your freaking parents house right now. She's like, okay, fine. And she's so afraid of like inconveniencing him. And I'm like, it's his daughter on father's day with his grandchildren and his awesome son in law. Like, let's go. And we were only there for 20 minutes and then it was time for him to eat. And he's very regimented. Like he's very, you know, comes from communism and like Soviet war. Not Soviet war, civil war. And like all the crazy stuff that he's been through. And so like you don't interrupt his program. So we left within like 20 minutes. And we're driving our car home and I look over and I see her face. And I just reached out and I just touched her hand and she looked at me and I had like a tear in my eye because I could see how hard we had never even spoken about this still till now. I could see how hard her or how bad her heart was hurting that she wanted to be with her daddy, but she was respecting his program. And I just held her and we were at a red light and we made eye contact for like 15 seconds and both of us started crying and the light turned green and I started driving. And then maybe 30 seconds later I looked over her and I said, that was probably the best conversation we've ever had. And she was crying and she's like, agreed. And in that moment, I knew her. I knew my wife just wants to be loved by her daddy. And I knew that my wife respects her daddy's programs and, and you know, yeah, quirks. So that she only got 20 minutes with him on his father's day. But I could see the pain all over her body when we were driving away, that she just would love for him to be more affectionate, more intentional. Come over. He lives four, four miles from us. I run past his house all the time. Comes over three times a year. Her mom works for us, so she's there every day. But still. So I would say that that's an example of her being known is without saying a word. We just made eye contact, we held hands, we both cried and we had a full blown conversation where she knew that I understood her pain and she knew that I love her and I support her and that I knew what she needed and she knew that I knew. So she cried back. It's a weird thing, you guys can probably understand. And then we just drove away. And I said that was probably the Best conversation we've ever had. And we didn't say a word.

I was going to say we've never talked about it. It's a connection.

What was it like for you? What was it like for you when that happened?

It was priceless, because I didn't want to interrupt his Father's Day and be like, okay, I was trying to talk to my dad. Like, when do I come see you? What works out for you? And I want to see his dad. I just. I'm very into trying to make sure that everyone feels known and loved and seen. And it was not working out in my favor to go see my dad. And he was like, let's get in the car. We're going right now. And I was like, this is not a good time. I didn't hear from him, and he's like, let's just go. This is what we do. We want our kids to. And I'm like, I've learned so much from him. Where all the lines, like, you don't have to have everything in a row. Like, just go there and just love somebody. But I've never grown up with that. And so his family is very loving and attentive. And so he's like, let's go. And we went. And I was just like, thanks for making me do that, because I would have missed my dad on Father's Day if it wasn't for you. And didn't work out exactly how I thought. But you understand it. And I was just like, he's my. My best friend.

How much of, like, Tony for you? Like, coming up with a father that wasn't. That was Danielle's dad, too. Like, I came from the touchy, he feely. Danielle can tell you. It's like she walked into a hurricane of family love that she didn't know was coming.

We were dating. If I didn't. If I missed a hug on the way out, they were like, is Danielle mad at me? I was like, I. I didn't know.

There's, like, 35 people she's having to hug.

Yeah, Literally, I'm not gonna hug line. I'm like, this takes 25 minutes to get out of here.

Not being raised with an affectionate, emotionally available father, and yet here you are with Emotional Energizer Bunny.

Yeah, I love that name.

Me too. Like my twin brother over here. Okay, so if you knew that's how he was, how he was being, and you had been starved of that. She was starved of that. Their whole family says, I love you. Hug you now because of me. But that's 23 years of, like, essentially force feeding love into their family, being able to express.

My dad's still uncomfortable with it, but he does better.

Yep.

Her dad didn't say I love you to his. To his mother until two weeks before she died. That was the first time ever. That's, like, how locked down he was. For you, though, feeling. What were you feeling when you guys first got together? Like. Cause he was obviously like this too. And you were like this, like, what was it about him that was pulling you in and said, okay, I think I'm gonna take this emotional roller coaster.

It was very overwhelming. He was like, do you love me? And I'm like, of course they love you. Look at everything I'm doing for you. My parents are immigrants. I was born in Serbia. And so, like, you show someone you love them, like, by working very, very hard. You make a meal from scratch, you clean up, you take care of the children, you work on the business. And it's like, you don't sit together and waste time. You know, you have to, like, do things. And, like, my dad doesn't say, I love you, you know, but he says, love you too. So if I say it first, he'll say it. And so I've never had that. And him just coming on so strong from his family of just being like, just I was smothered in a good way of something that I never knew that I needed. And when I had it, I didn't know how to deal with it except kind of push it away and then that would hurt him. And I was like, why am I like this? Like, I should be more vulnerable and open up to this, because once I did, our marriage was on a whole different level because I was able to open up to him. I don't know if I ever thought, like, what if we weren't going to be together and I open up, it'll hurt too much. But at the end of the day, everyone does want it and need it. They just don't know how to accept it.

Was it uncomfortable for you in the beginning? Because if, you know, maybe not raised. I wasn't raised in, like, a very huggy, touchy family. And even, like, saying, I love you, I would be like, you should just know I love you.

Yeah.

Like, she wouldn't say I love you back. I said I love you to her. She wouldn't. She wouldn't say it.

And I'm like, it just wasn't practice in our house. And so he'd be like, why don't you say it. I'm like, well, you should just know, babe, I love you. You know, I'm here. But did you have to make, like, an effort to, like. Because it was not natural for you. So did you have to make an effort, you know, like, grab his hand, like, be very affectionate with your words and actions?

My therapist helped me. I literally put it in my phone. I had an alarm that said, text Cole that you love him, because I don't.

Did you take note of that when that happened? During the show. We're gonna send that clip to Danielle. Great fucking idea. Continue.

There's little things that I thought therapy was taboo. I was like, you're broken. You shouldn't have therapy. His mom is a therapist, so he's grown up all the time. Was like, how do I grow? How do I do better? And he was like, do you need anything? You were anxious, like, if a therapist, like, maybe that can help. And we were having trouble growing up, like, our marriage making it better. So I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna get one. And when I spoke to her, it seemed so simple. She's like, you just tell him you love him. I'm like, okay. She's like, well, why is it so hard for you? I'm like, I guess I don't think about it. And she said, well, does Cole think about throwing out the trash, or does he see it's full and it means go do it, like, you might need a reminder? And I'm like, that's totally fair. So I would put it in my phone, and when we would be sitting and watching Netflix or something, I would make sure to hold his hand and. Or hold his, like, foot. And it meant the world to him. I'm like, why does he care so much? I'm just my hands touching him. So when I saw those, like, these little tools working, it made me want to do it more into a point where now I didn't even think about holding his hand. Yeah, but, I mean, it took lots of reps. Yeah. It's not something that comes easy to me.

Right.

But I.

So was it confusing for you to feel like you were expressing love, and meanwhile, Cole feels like he's starving?

Yeah.

Super confusing.

Right? He's always starving. I'm like, I need to do more.

Like a vacuum.

Well, this was, like, the same. And, Danielle, you can talk about this because, like, you two twins. No, I was like, twins, brothers. We hug. We don't shake hands. You two twins? The wildest shit. Dude is so many dudes, like, Us are drawn to stoic emotionally. We're mysterious, disclosed women who have mysterious behind their eyes, whose fathers were all completely emotionally unplugged. Literally. We're. If we were like, combining, because I get to talk to a lot of guys tends to be my data point.

Yeah.

I can name over 25 couples like us. They're all very successful, but all the women, regal, beautiful, stunning women who are doers, who were raised by fathers that were completely emotionally unavailable. So what was like for you in this transition? Because you and I, I mean, we. We. Our marriage was going to divorce over this. We were. I was done. I was like, I can't do this shit anymore. You're fucking killing me. I'm dying on the vine with your lack of ability and commitment to feed me the food. I want to be fed.

I. I think for me, I was like, you should just like me for who I am. If you don't like me for who I am, that's your problem. And then I was like, okay, well, that's not a way to approach things. And we were like. We had had. We have four daughters. We had two at the time. And we were. We were at this place where he's like, I can't do this anymore. It was sex, intimacy, everything. And I was just like, am I really gonna, like, let my marriage go because I'm not willing to, like, cross the line and make an effort? That's something that's not natural for me. And I was like, that's ridiculous. So when people always ask, like, how did you make the turn? And I was like, I made a daily conference, conscious effort to do things that were. Meant something to him, but was really uncomfortable for me. And then like you said over time, I love that he enjoyed it. And then I enjoyed it. You know, I was like, oh, okay, I can see why this is kind of a powerful play. Whereas I thought just like me for who I am, I'm like, I feel very powerful meeting his needs because I'm like, haha, you're mine. I got you, you know?

Yeah.

Did it cross, like for you guys sexually, in the beginning, was there. Was there impact from this same thing or was it just public? No, like the other side of emotion in time.

So that's what's interesting is, is sexually, she's always been a savage, if I do say so myself. And so that like, part of what I needed was satisfied. I mean, we could always use more, let's be honest.

But.

But, like, she was meeting those needs. But I found through our experience that There was more that I needed from the emotional side because you can have sex with a prostitute, there's no emotion in that. Like I needed as a man emotional connectivity that she wasn't used to experiencing. And while sex in the physical sense was, was satisfying and checking that box, like what I needed was like deep connection and complete transparency and vulnerability and trust and like the heavy stuff that her culture tiptoes around. And so again, while we have had a great sex life for 15 years and you know, it, it had its struggles when we were struggling about two years ago before we made our 180 degree U turn that we're on now and things are better than ever. Where I was starving was like feeling that I was desperately needed in her life and that, that like her soul longed to be with me. Like that's what I needed to know and be affirmed in. And it wasn't just words, it wasn't just action. It was like sustained over time, effort by her part that she stepped up and did that solved that like hole in my heart. And I'm very maybe abnormal that way. I grew up in a great family. I have no trauma from my childhood. My parents are still married to this day, 53 years later. They still make out together. Yeah, it's gross. They're old people making out. And I almost died a few times where I was like the only survivor of accidents. So it wasn't like a near death experience. Like I was the only one that made it experience. And so I had a very close encounter with death which made I feel my sense of wanting to feel alive a lot stronger in, in my sensitivity to the subject more so she got a weird combo of someone that's almost died a few times, have had to bury friends, and was raised by parents who can't keep their hands off of each other. And then she was raised in a culture where you don't touch or say I love you or talk at all. Like I can honestly say in the entire time I've been with her, I've never seen her parents touch. I don't see them hug or kiss at all. I know they love each other and they're still married for 40 something years, but there's zero affection. And that's what she was raised with. And so watching her grow to fill that need beyond the sexual but the emotional, which, you know, sounds almost in like the feminine sense, but I needed it and we had to have our heads butting heads and go through therapists for me to be like, dude, I just like, you're hot and you look great naked and we have great sex. But, like, I need to feel loved by you. I need to feel like we are soul mates and that, like, we are two halves of a whole. For real. Because right now I feel like I'm a half of a hole. But you could, like, if I died, mourn and move on in a minute. And like, I need to know that, like, our souls are intertwined in a way that is. You can never separate. And. And that's what I needed. And it took years of butting heads and me sounding ridiculous and her thinking I was ridiculous. But I, in that instance, needed to go 90 and she went 10. Where for 15 years it's been her going 90 and me going 10. And so I honestly just loved the shit out of her and got a therapist myself, got a psychiatrist myself, went through work and did things for her that I would never do for anyone else and completely changed who I am as a man in a lot of ways that beyond just our relationship, everyone in my life who knew me in March of 22 and knows me now says, you're a whole different person. And she saw that effort and saw how hard I was working. Like, you want to talk about working hard in business without sounding arrogant, I think making millions of dollars is easier than making it to your 20 year wedding anniversary. I think that there are more consistent, more consistent sacrifices and effort at over a longer sustained period of time to keep a marriage healthy than even a business. Because a lot of business, as you grow, you have systems, you outsource, you scale, you have employees. Marriage is all on you. 100. My fault how I show up in this marriage. And so I went through this gnarly transformation of me starting first, there was even a season we weren't talking divorce, but I slept in one of our guest rooms for like 40 days in 2022. And we weren't having sex at that time. And there was no reciprocated emotional anything. We were just raising children and running businesses together. And it was really what had led up to.

Because we went to about the same time you guys collided in 22 is the same time we collided. We'll have Danielle share in a second. That was March 22nd. That was. That was a crowbar year.

That was me March 22nd.

Yeah, we are crowbars.

We are brothers.

24.

It's 24.

We all went through Covid being locked up together.

And then we came out of COVID and everyone was like, oh, no, no.

We were March 23rd. We were a Year behind you guys. It was like a year and a half ago.

It was like. It was like, actually last January. So it's like a year and a half.

So what. What was. What was. Like, what was the. What was the thing that you two were not able to move on, that you now are moving on? That obviously shifted it, because this. This. The thing that we're seeing right now is that I am. I am acutely aware, both of us, why two things occur for top producing couples. One, why divorce is running rampant.

Yeah.

Number one. And number two, why women are cheating. Oh. Like Desperate Housewives with very aggressive, committed men who think they're delivering everything. But these women are dying in the soul level, not being seen.

They go outside the marriage to fulfill a need.

They're not trying to fulfill it outside because they're getting everything else in abundance. That's just oc life. That's just. I'm just talking about orange. Can I talk about my guys?

Yeah.

So what was the thing? Like, go back to 22. Like, what was the friction point? Sony. For like, what did you see was going on that was putting you two in this division of saying, okay, we're do or die right now? Because we've been do or die six times. We were do or die 19 months ago. Again, people are like, what the fuck you been? Wake up. Where I was like, I've been very open with everyone. We don't have it all figured out. Yeah, we're going to the top of the goddamn mountain. Where's the mountain top? I don't know. We're just gonna keep climbing. What was going on for you? And I know I'm. I know I'm putting you on the spot.

Both of us were not showing up the way we needed to for each other. We both started to do a little bit less and then a little bit less, and we're like, whatever. He's not doing this. He's not hearing me. I'm not gonna kiss him. I'll make him learn his lesson. And then he's like, well, she's not doing what I want. I'm gonna make her like.

Yeah.

Like, we were very passive aggressive until the point where I was like, just, like, looking at my kids, looking at the home, and I'm all, this is not what I want. I don't want to live my life like this. He's my best friend. I like, go. I, like, went back to my therapist, and I was just kind of like, I married a man that I was obsessed with. I loved him so much. Why can't I get back there again? And so I needed that anchor to remind me that he is my best friend. He's someone I want to be with. And I needed to realize that. And then one day just. I went up to him and I was like, hey, it's do or die. Like, do you want this? Because I don't even know if you want to fight for this anymore. I. I really don't want to leave. But if you don't fix A, B, and C, I'm gone. Because it's not healthy for our kids to watch mom and dad not together and fighting. Like, I don't want them to grow up thinking that's normal. But I didn't know which was the lesser evil of us divorcing or making it through, but just. Just being roommates, persevering.

Yeah.

And so I. I went up to him, and I'm just grateful that he heard me at that moment, because if he didn't, he could have walked away. I just. I looked at him and I'm like, please do this. He's like, I do everything.

I'm like.

It wasn't immediate, though. It took me a while. I remember the turning point for me vividly. I was in the backseat of my Mercedes, one you just saw me park and was eating junk food alone. I don't even remember what restaurant I went to. But I didn't want to be home. I didn't want to be with my wife or children. I wanted space. And I felt so emotionally starved at the time. And the root of the cause was entitlement on both of us. We both felt entitled to have more that the other wasn't giving us. So we each kept pulling back equally to teach the other a lesson because of what we thought we wanted or needed or deserved. And neither of us was willing to compromise. And with all respect to my wife as the man, I made the conscious decision that it is my job to move first. And I did. And then she. I started 90 10, and then she's gone 110 since. But as I was sitting in the back of the Mercedes, I was literally figuring out a way. And I haven't shared this very publicly. I don't think ever of how to crash my car in a way that I would get hurt but not die. I wasn't suicidal, but I was. Like, how? Like, if she got a call from an ambulance that her husband was just involved in a really bad accident, it would snap her out of this. She would come running back and be like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Because she would think for a second she might have lost her husband. So I live in Cotto. You guys know the toll road? There was this one on ramp that is kind of like a ramp. And I literally had it planned out that if I went, like, 90 miles an hour and shot off that ramp, I might be able to get my car to land on its roof, which would be a bad enough accident, but I have, like, 40 airbags in that car that it would be significant. And she'd be like, oh, my God, he flipped his car. So she'd come running, but I'd survive and be okay in the end. So I was literally in the backseat of my car, figuring out how to hurt myself enough to break her out of her stubbornness to get her love me again. And I. And I just realized.

For help.

Yeah. And I just realized in that moment that, like, that's. That. Like, that that's where our marriage had arrived and that it was on me to get her to come running back despite the accident. So I came home. That was when I hired a therapist and. And slowly and surely started working towards earning her back and getting her back in a different way by earning her love and her trust again. And, you know, that was the turning point for me, was I was literally trying to figure out how to hurt myself enough to scare her to love me again.

Number one, bro.

Thanks for sharing that.

I appreciate you sharing and, like, putting it online right now. This world I live in, this world my men run in, this place, this is healing, like, just being able to be in it as a man, like, and for her. Yeah. Yeah. You're building back. I'm building back. At the end of the day, we're just building ourselves.

Yeah.

And that's all these women ever wanted. Daniel said something interesting a couple weeks ago. She's like, I'm not afraid of you being awake. I'm not afraid of you being full awake. I'm terrified of you staying asleep and doing stupid. And that's like the. That we get to. You look at all of you created all that you've built, all that you had and how much. What we're after has nothing to do with a vagina.

Yeah, totally.

It's fucked up. Guys don't get it until they get it, because you got the money, you have the beautiful wife, you have the children. You're fit of all the things only to find the thing we've all been after, and no one underneath it gets it until they get the money. And they get the beautiful woman, and they find out, what did you actually want? What's the three words again?

No one known, loved, and seen.

So even beyond. Tell me, touch me, me, which is our primal level guy one, we found that. I literally had people asking today, like, what is the female version? I was like, I don't know.

I love and seen.

I think it's beautiful to own that, though, and to own it in the position you're in and to own it with what you do and how public you are. Well done.

Thanks, man.

Because this right here is going to impact this show right here. The men that listen to this show, I don't have. I don't have tons of followers. I don't have the men that listen and that follow. They're all like us because we speak different. Nobody understands what the we're saying here. Most of the time, you think I'm yelling about, but what you just did, well done. And to sit in the pocket with this man for as long as you have, because I know how. He's a good talker. Oh, he's a fast talker. He could talk you into a corner in two seconds. He and I be great sparring partners. And I did the same to her. Watching him make this shift in the beginning, what was this like for you?

It was huge. I. It was something that I didn't realize is I. I read a book called Boundaries, and that book changed my life. It made me realize I'm like, he could talk his way out of stuff. He could say things. And I was like, oh, you're right. Okay. But when I realized how I needed to show up so that my children can see a healthy home and how a marriage should be not like mine, where it's my parents or roommates, I wanted it to be something great. That book was incredible because it showed me my voice in a way of being able to speak with him and not tell him, you did this. And I hate when you are like this. I would always come at him. He would be defensive right away. So if I learned that I should say, I would like if you did this, and we had a situation in the laundry room during my daughter's party. He's a better storyteller, so I'm gonna let him say this, but the boundaries book is what gave me the voice to be able to say this to him, that now our entire marriage is different.

You're gonna throw that in my lap? All right, so we. This was just this last March, so we were already in what I would have Called the best place of our marriage. And we're Christians, and I've been a Christian my whole life and believed in God and all of that. And we had God in our marriage. But, like, as a piece of. And what's really been interesting these last four months is that God has, without getting too preachy, become kind of a preach, bro, preach, a center part of our marriage because of her. And so I've been working on myself literally for two years from March 22nd to March 24th. And it was my daughter's birthday. She was born on February 29, 2016. She's a leap year baby. So she was only had technically two birthdays. And that was her birthday party was happening. And it was raining that morning, and it wasn't supposed to. And we had all of our. We had over 100 people coming. We had everything set up, and the rain was ruining. And I'll tell the brief version of the story. I'm out there with a leaf blower trying to dry everything off for the guests that were arriving, like an hour. And I was in a great place in my marriage with her, but in a very rough spot with my creator, with my relationship with God. I was in a very interesting season of blaming him for everything that had been going wrong. We. We had some business deals go sideways. I had a partner steal $1.3 million cash for me. Like, all kinds of things that had happened. And in my spiritual immaturity, decided to just blame God for it. And so I recognized my marriage and all the blessings that God gave me, but I was very quick to blame God for. For anything, including the weather. And so I was in the backyard using a leaf blower, trying to dry things off for our guests to be able to celebrate. My little girl because it was important to me that she had a great birthday. And I'm dropping F bombs. I'm like, what the. Because it keeps. Like, everything would be dry and then would sprinkle again for 15 minutes and ruin it all again. And I lost it out there. And I was like, kicking over tables and chairs. All right, so anyway, wasn't directed at.

Her, but while you're watching them kick.

Tables, I could hear it. I see it.

Yeah. Yeah. So it was a. It was a bad moment for me again sharing publicly now on the Internet. Hey, everybody. And so. And so, although she and I were good, I, as a man was still in my own journey with. With my relationship with God. Right. And. And was in a season of blaming him for everything. And so, long story short, she got Pissed. And what. I don't know how. What happens here when she gets mad, but what she does is she withdraws. She's a turtle in her shell. She won't talk to you anymore. She doesn't explode like I do. It'll be two weeks before I see her naked again and before she'll have a real conversation with me.

And just under construction. Do not enter.

Don't talk to me. Don't touch me.

Silent zone. Cone of silence. You're banned.

And so the guests start arriving, and I see her put on her happy face, but I know her. No scene in love, whatever that is. And I know she's not okay. And I was like, all she's going to remember of this whole party is what I did before anyone got here. Her recollection a year from now will be like, oh, that was the party. Racole freaked out, so I pulled her into the laundry room because that was the only part of our house that wasn't full. We love celebrating our children. I think there's probably like 150 people at that birthday party. And so I pulled her into the closet or the. The laundry room, and I apologized to her. And to her point of not coming at me and the growth that she went through, she spoke to me in a way that, like, I. The only way I can explain is it, like, pierced my soul. And she said two things to me I will never forget. And she said, number one, I want you to know something. And I was very transparent with her about my struggle with God in my relationship at this time, because I've been a Christian for my whole life, basically growing up in a Christian home. But this was like the lowest point for me in my walk. And she said two things to me. She said, number one, I want to point something out to you. And she wasn't yelling. She wasn't rude. She was almost like a coach. She's like, I want to point two things out to you. Number one is you lost it today because of rain. And she's like, we have a lot of life left. And she's like, we have children. She's like, what happens if one of us gets cancer? What happens if something happens? And she cried a little bit. She's like, what if something happens to one of our babies? She said, I need to know that I am married to a man that can handle whatever life brings. And you couldn't handle the weather this morning. And I was like, oh. But it wasn't antagonistic and it wasn't rude. It was just Honest. And she said, number two, she said, I respect that you're in the place that you are with God right now. And she is as a believer as well, more recently in 2011. And so, you know, 13 years now. And she's like, I want you to know that I respect you are where you are, and I will give you the complete space to be on your journey with God that you're on. But nothing you ever say or do will ever come in between me and God and my relationship, my belief system. So while you want to blame God for everything and be bitter and angry, I'll give you your space to be on your own journey and do that. But you will never change my faith and my belief in our Creator. And then she just turned around and walked out of there, and I was just jello. I was putty. I was just like, oh, my gosh. And I was better than.

I was better than tits. Oh, dude, that's like, you.

It was probably the most powerful conversation I've ever had in my life. And. And. But then she. But she accepted my apology because I spoke first. I was like, I'm sorry. That was her response. And the last thing she said is, and I want you to know that I do accept your apology, and let's go celebrate our baby. And I was in there for, like, 15 minutes after she left, just stunned, like, hearing. Ringing in my ears, just like, holy cow, she just dropped the bomb on me. And in that moment, I decided to give up my grievances towards God, because, again, I don't know how much you know about my backstory, but I've gone through some things, and. And I have reason to be bitter towards some of the things I've lost and experiences I've gone through. And I just decided to give up on my own pride towards my heavenly Father and just say, okay, like, you are refining me to be a better man, and I am going through that a lot of people don't have to go through, because I am now convinced that you've got something awesome you're preparing me for in the future. And so I'm going to just shift my perspective so that I can lead my family spiritually again. Because she was carrying the weight for, like, the last two years, to be completely honest, of, like, making sure we're at church and that God's a part of our household and I can, like, step back into that role as a spiritual leader of my family. And she and I, since that moment, have been at a level we've never been at ever. Where I have so much respect for her and, like, admiration that she called me out on my. In a loving, coaching, really wanting to see me get better as a man way and not, like, how dare you? And blah, blah, blah, but just like, hey, you're better than this. I know who you are because I know your soul, and I will give you the space to be a little. But I need to know that I am married to a man that can handle what life brings us. And she just drew that line. This was in MARCH and, like, March 1, because, anyway, and since that day, our relationship has changed. And this was after two years of me working on a relationship. It is better than it's ever been. Our communication and knowing each other, to your question a little bit ago, is better than it's ever been. My faith and my walk with my creator is the best it's ever been. And I was a missionary at one point. Like, I was down there preaching full time. And that, I think, is one of the defining moments of our entire marriage. And I was hoping that I would have a chance to share the story on this podcast. But, like, you know, to the women that are out there who are married to, like, that alpha male who is intimidating and can be aggressive and is hard to turn off, that energy, like, approaching us, matching our aggressive energy will only be gasoline on fire.

Yeah.

But, like, the way she looked at me and the way that she worded it in a way that was not condescending and it was not judgmental. It was just like, you're better than this, and I know you're better than this, and I will give you the space you need to figure this out, and I will love you through it, but this will never happen again.

Yeah.

Line drawn. Done.

Did you. I feel like, because their personalities are so similar, and I feel like it's something they need our love to match that, you know, explosion or whatever it is.

Come back and tell me you did. This is, like, a theme, too, across the board. Like, Danielle did what you did. Like, all these powerful women are being asked to activate their husbands and activate themselves at the same time. So off you go. Your turn. Share with them. You brought your crowbar moment to me.

Well, I mean, I called a crowbar.

She didn't like it.

He calls it a crowbar. And I'm like, dude, that sounds so aggressive. But, no, I. Garrett and I, it was like, a year and a half ago. I had my fourth daughter. I was, like, in the best shape of my life. I. You know, we had the house, the cars, like, the perfect little family. And I wasn't feeling seen or heard or connected. And I felt like I couldn't burden him, like, with more time or I couldn't burden him. You know, he's out there working. I just have to be grateful. I can't. We don't want to burden our man. And I realized at that expense, I was like. I was like, I'm. Why do I feel so empty? And I realized it was like I needed more time with him. I needed conversations. I needed more than just all of this. And I got to this point where I was willing to let all of this go. Like, I was like, I will lose the cars, the house, the money. I don't care. I'm like, it. That. That's not what I'm in this life for. I wanted to be one with my partner. I wanted to be connected. So I didn't approach it the best way because I tend to stuff deliveries down. And I. I mean, this was, like, not a therapist.

But here's.

Well, here's the thing. I don't know if he would have heard it if I didn't react. Like, I almost had to go to his level in an explosive way to get him to hear me.

Yeah.

And so sometimes as much as I'm like, oh, that was aggressive. Like, he's told me. He's like, I think I needed that. I think you were telling me without actually telling me. So then it just exploded in this big fight of, like, I'm just like, I don't feel seen and heard. I'm actually thinking about sleeping with other men. Like, I don't want to be. Not that I would ever, but I was like, that's where my mind's at.

Yeah.

And I'm like, and I don't want to feel that way. And so it was just. It was a tough conversation. And when we first had the conversation, of course he was like, I mean, you can share your side of the story. But he was just like, how dare you? What are you talking about? I've given you everything. And I'm like, I guess I need more. I guess I need more. I'll lose it all if we can't figure out how to connect and have this, you know, this chemistry that I know we have. Like, I know is there, but it somehow. It got lost in kids and business and everything else. And I was like, I refuse to be in a marriage where it's not. Not. It doesn't have to be on fire all the time, but I want to feel like we Are, like, supposed to.

Be together, known, loved, and seen.

There's a new. I think God's like, bringing in a new standard.

Yeah.

Of what it is to be a man, what it is to be a woman, what it is to be unified. What it is this one flesh conversation in Scripture, like, this truth is being brought forth. The only challenge is to do it. It's requiring an incredible amount of refiner's fire. There's an incredible amount of pain and internal baptism by fire that couples are going through. And it's two directions, Right? So she's coming to me, leaves me on my heels for like two months. I'm just fucking spiraling. I'm like, how in the ever living fuck did I work this hard, build everything I have, sacrifice in ways I've never fully. Like, at levels I know no man has been willing to go. And I'm about to fucking lose everything. I only wanted. I only wanted her. And the first time I saw her eyes in the little doorway in her fucking apartment when she was 18 and I was 25 and I was divorced. And I was like, oh, God, she's everything I wanted ever. And here I'm fighting for all of it. And then she's like, I'm not. I'm not feeling seen. I'm not feeling heard. What's your words again?

Known, loved and seen.

Known, loved, and seen. I'll remember maybe tomorrow, probably not today, but I'll text you tomorrow. Hey, Cole, what's the words again? No one. Loved and seen. But this process that we're all going through, this is not just like us.

Yeah.

It's not just you guys. In the last couple years, we have seen every power couple in our world.

Yeah.

Same be shaken and either broken or bonded.

Yeah.

And we've had couples that are here. They've been here with us on the show, and now they're not together. I know John and Sachs didn't make it, which was, like, super sad. And like, that's. That's a scenario, too, in which you're like, sean's a great friend of ours. Sacks. A good one of ours, too. And whatever their situation is, their situation. But every couple's being tested right now. My. My premise is why? Because we must represent to a completely chaotically lost generation of children.

Sure.

What marriage. How God intended it to be.

Yeah.

Amen.

And it's not coming, unfortunately, from a lot of the happy clapper church people. It's not coming from. Pastors aren't going to do this. It's men like you and Me, the next revival isn't going to be in the church. The next revival is the front line of industry. The hubbles, like couples who are standing in power publicly, being known, putting it on the line publicly, that's going to spark all of it. Because guys in our world still have a hard time. We love our pastors, we love our therapists, and there's always an asterisk, like, do you really know? Do you really know what I go through? Do you really know what it's like to lose this kind of money? Do you really know it's like to have people steal from you? Do you really know it's like to be betrayed at this level? Do you know the pressure, hitting payroll? No. You have a board and everybody pays you money because you say, jesus, I don't get that hall pass. I have to market my ass off. And when my ads don't work and payroll has to be hit, I have to do that. And then. And then I got my 14 second commute and then. You want me to flip the switch in 14 stairs? Where's the training manual on that one? Sorry, not going to find that in the book of Psalms. Like, how am I going to get there? Dude, you're finding it. You two are finding it. And there's so many different ways to pull it off. And you're doing it and you did it. I. You're done. She doesn't do that.

Oh, no, here's the thing, is that you're never done. And I think that's the greatest part is that, like, we're always still trying to figure out something new. And I'm like, how do we stay a team? Because tomorrow when we get a bad phone call that this land deal didn't work out or something, there's a blow up. And I'm like, how do I bring him back? But if he's freaking out and I don't like the delivery, then I get upset, even though has nothing to do with me. So we've gone through all these tools that we have to learn, learn. But when you're with community, with friends that are going through the same thing, I'm not calling my girlfriend. Like, did you see her nose job? We're calling. And I'm like, hey, I only talk to my supportive friends. Like, my friends that love Cole, I basically have two people that I trust that I. That care for him enough, that if I'm saying something, I'm not talking shit. They're like, fix it. Like, they're not gonna say, well, come out on Girls night. Like, they are looking out for Cole's best interest and mine, and they want us to win. Like, they're not gonna say, oh, yeah, Sonya. Like, don't let them slide. That's messed up. They'll be like, that this was wrong. And talk about. I'm like, okay, so it's like, we have such good people around us that are going to help us fight and not give up. And I want to stay a team.

Yeah.

I think the down factor isn't like that we ever get done. It's just like there's. Think about how many times. Think about, think about the 40 days in the other bedroom. Think about how you could have responded in those environments. You guys could be divorced for sure. We could be divorced. She didn't know she came to deliver to me. She didn't know she was saying. She's like, if he goes to his ego.

Yeah.

And he gets wrapped up in his. He could tell me to pack the up and get out.

I used to do like, when we'd get in fights, I would like kind of, what do they call it, stonewalling or I would just like distance myself. And that was one thing that I really worked on myself as. I'm like, sometimes you have to go to war. Like you do. It's like, it doesn't. It's just like a conversation. Right. Might be a tough conversation. But that was one thing that I would do is I would just like, it's fine.

I don't want to fight.

I don't want to fight. And now I'm like, I'm not going to bed. I might go to bed angry, but the next morning I want to get up and we're going to have a conversation and resolve it. So that was like something that I had to work on. And then also like when he's these high energy men, when they're in, it's almost like they're not themselves. I think of it as like my job to literally like grab a space and be like, hey, you're okay.

Yeah.

And he had. That's what he wants. We had an incident a couple weeks ago. We had film people here and my daughter, 16 year, my daughter you met, like threw a sandwich across the floor and was having like a freaking episode. And he's like, I'm going to slap her in the face. I was like, you're slapping face. But I came down and I could have been irritated about his reactivity to my daughter. And I was like, hey, it's okay. I've got this. What Can I do to help? And I went upstairs to talk to my daughter calmly.

Yeah.

And I think it's our job sometimes, like to diffuse the situation.

That's our job. Yeah, that is our job.

I was going to hit her. I said, it's a good thing you're not a boy, because if you were to punch in the throat.

Yeah. Oh, sorry. That's better.

Yeah.

You know, I was like.

I go.

We had been literally my best child. I was at the end of three days, I had clients fly in from around the country. We are here and she's throwing a tantrum all day because she's like, you're moving to Miami. I'm not coming. I refuse to come to my. If I do come, you're paying for my boyfriend to come.

We're like, yeah, we all say stuff we don't mean in the situation. This is a key thing in our relationship, is that we see. Say stuff when we're heated like that. And I'm like, holy. Why did I say that? Or he's like, why did I say that? So now I'm. When you're upset, leave the room, like, go for a walk or. And it's hard, cuz he'll like, just keep coming at me. And I'm all, no, because we're both going to say something we don't like. But I didn't give him a time. I'd always just be like, hey, Cole's stealing my move. But I just feel like for two weeks. And he hated that. And then when my therapist said, hey, Sonia, what he needs is a timeframe. Like, be like, I need an hour.

Rain check. Yeah.

And then he won't chase me around the house and keep trying to come at me to fix it.

And I'm like.

And it's. It's such a game changer to say, I just need two hours.

It's because we're hunters. We're hunters. That's what we do. We know our target. We're like, oh, you're going to try to go to the other room.

Oh, yeah.

I'm going to follow you.

Right? Oh, my God. Why is it.

Yeah, we're gonna have this conversation right now.

Yeah.

Well, no, you gotta stop and. But they need the time frame. Time frame is key.

I'm try that.

If it's two weeks, like, he'll keep changing time frame. But just say. Just say, I need. I need an hour.

You know what?

Cool off. Go for a swim, Garrett. Go have fun and come back. And it's so crazy, even 15 minutes, you're not as pissed somebody's giving you.

Two great coaching tips.

I. I don't know.

Set an alarm, tell your husband he's awesome.

Sometimes I've done that with Garrett, and he gets a little pouty.

Oh, for sure.

But there's like, hey. You go. I'm like, hey, did you hear what she said?

Oh, for sure. Which means Cole's still my brother. He has the pouty response also.

Yeah, he does. It's a thing they do.

I know. And he'll be like, why'd you call me pouty? I'm like, did you hear yourself, like, sound pouty?

The funniest is when I was running a lot, she'd be like, why are you always running away from everything? I'm not. As I'm putting my shoes on, I'm just going for a run. There you go. Running away. Literally running away from bangs.

I'm like, but you guys always fight to come back. Anything. That's what everyone has. No long. No one has that in them anymore. They're like, oh, the grass is greener on the other side. Like, look. How exciting.

Thank you for bringing that up. I've been waiting my turn.

Go ahead.

You say to close that loop of what we've been talking about that I'm sure is a part of your crowbar moment and, as I've shared, was a bit of mine and is. I think even society has a degree of guilt in this, that you and I, as men, are celebrated for having hot wives, big houses, cool cars, private jets, blah, blah, blah. But, like, who is celebrated for fighting for their marriage? Like, that's just not at the top of what society deems as praiseworthy. And if you read the Bible, like we are, it says to leave your father and mother, go and get married and be plentiful and have children, and, like, your house is your number one mission. And one thing I've had to learn is to fight as hard as I do for my business, for my marriage, and for my children, to protect them in the world that wants to try to tell them they're not enough, especially having daughters, that they're not pretty enough, that they need to change their body, that they need to change genders, that they needed this and that. And especially now that I have a boy, a young man who's going to be taught to be a victim and to be a beta and feel sorry for himself and to not want to be a leader in society, but to be quiet and to shut up and comply and so, like, I have to fight as hard as anything else in my life for my marriage and for my children's future, and no one gives you pats on the backs for that. There are all kinds of awards in the entrepreneurial space for income levels and respect you get on the gram for posting a picture of you standing in front of some very expensive thing. But, like, nobody celebrates the quiet conversations. And a lot of us keep them private, which is maybe why it's not as celebrated as much of the private conversations of saving marriages. Your crowbar moment, like, you should be celebrated by the women for having the courage to approach him in the way and in the context that you did. That sounds very different than hers. Because you needed to meet his level because you know how he needs to be heard, seen, and loved. Is that right?

No one loved me.

Okay?

We're all going to get tattoos.

You knew that you needed to rev your RPMs up to there. She knew that in the context of our situation, she needed to come cool and not threatening and just out of, like, love for wanting to see her best friend win. And so cheers to the women who are holding their men accountable. But if I can just speak bluntly, I think the responsibility lies. And. And I'm not a pastor, but I even think biblically, this is sound lands in the lap of us husbands.

Yep.

To fight like, we're warrior gatherers. Right. Like, back in the day, we had to be freaking badasses. Like, we had to go fight saber tooth tigers and kill things for our family. And now it's like killing emails and this and that. And it's like, it's a different world that we're fighting for, but we have to fight for our women. And I think that it's easy to do momentarily, you're out in public, someone disrespects your chick, it's really easy to walk up and punch that dude in the mouth. Right? Like, I'm here for my wife. But then what about when you're binge watching Netflix or your sports or your what do they gamble? Fantasy sports. You're doing all that and your wife, her tank is drained and she had something happen with her mother or mother in law and children and she's just done, and you just had plants flying from all over the world for three days and you're at the end of your tank too, and you walk into the kitchen wanting to be cared for, wanting a sandwich, wanting everything to be done your way and left alone and sit on the couch to go and, you know, have escapism however men do it with fantasy sports TV or whatever it is. But you look in the wife, the eyes of your wife, and you know that she's done, too. And we step up. Like, being manly is changing your baby's diaper in the middle of the night, even though you're the one that has to wake up early for work. And I don't think a lot of people think of it that way. And I think that that's what men need to do more of to save a growing divorce rate. It's growing every year. I see this statistic, especially in the entrepreneurial space. And I want to, like, call out the men watching this podcast that, like, we are called to be those leaders. And it's not just cool to have mansions and lambos and private jets. Like, it's also cool to love the out of your wife and to be faithful to her. Do you know how hard it is, at least in the world that a lot of us live in, to be faithful? Right? Like, you get on a stage, you get off. You might have the same experience I do, where there are women in that audience that thought you looked pretty cool and could care less of the fact that you had pictures of your wife and children on the screen. They want action, a piece of the action. And even our. Our online activity, like. Like, we have to fight for our marriages as hard as we fight for anything else, period. It's not a hunt. It's. It's not a 99 effort to make money and a 1% effort at home. And I think that a lot of men get that wrong, and I think partially is society's fault for not celebrating that. But I want to respect what you do professionally because we need leaders to do that. And I watched. What's it called, Reel of yours, I don't know, maybe two, three months ago, where you were calling out Christian men specifically to be more bold and to not be in the world that we live in right now, especially with the opening of the Olympics and what's going on right now. Like, we need bold men in their families and in their faith. And it's really timely that we're having this conversation. She made me clean the garage yesterday, which was torture, but we did it together. And I found a journal of when I was 21 years old in Africa on a missions trip, and I was journaling on day 16 of being in Rwanda, and I wrote that I want to lead men to be better versions of themselves. I don't remember everything I wrote. Respect women and blah, blah, blah. And like, I wrote that I wanted to do what you're doing when I was 21 on a missions trip, which is cool. And through Thrive, there's a version of that. Right. But. So I think we need more of what you're trying to create in the world. And we will see less divorce rates, we will see healthier marriages, and we will see healthier children and future generations. Because honestly, even though she spends more time with our kids, I personally think I make a bigger impact in their future. I think that the mother is the nurturer and all of that. But, like, daddy, like, girls have daddy issues. Right? And little boys who have an absent father. Like, I think that men play. And this is no disrespect to women, but a bigger role in the future of their children personally. And I could be wrong with that. But I think that, again, she spends more time with them, but my moments are more impactful for their self identity, self belief and future. And we just need dudes to stop being what society says of just money generators and thing collectors and fight as hard for our marriage and our children as we do in anything else. And that the whole world will change.

I feel like women, though, we are called to have our men rise. And we're so afraid of conflict, and we don't know that that's how you can position your man to rise. And so even, like, conversations that are tough, for me, it's like, it's because I'm like, I want him to rise. Like, I, yeah, I do believe that.

Know his potential.

Yeah. So I feel like for all women, you know, listening to this podcast, who are in relationships with powerful men, they still need to have a voice.

Yes.

Because otherwise they. That's how they grow apart. They're like, the money's not worth it anymore. You know? So it's like you want. You've built this life together. You're invested in this, in your partner. You have this legacy. Like, why wouldn't you want it to work? And so I think that women don't speak up enough.

Totally.

Well, look what you like, look what you two did right. Not see. You both have the root beer power eyes. The root beer power eyes. You're both oracles. You're both plugged into God's truth without even having to read much. And that's a common thread. Miss all these women. Now we play a role on their legacy in guiding and forging these children. Here's the funniest shit. Without her, you don't do it.

Totally.

Without her, I don't do it.

Yep.

So in the end, you guys make the people and you ultimately influence the guys who influence the kids who influence millions. Which means at the end of the day, there's a reason God saved you for last. You were the greatest of all creation.

I always. I always say. I'm like, I. I picked. I picked this one because I knew who's my workhorse. It's like, who's gonna. I was like, who's gonna get. Who's gonna be my warrior? Who's gonna, like, get it done?

You know? But he's also.

I love what you just said because.

You'Re able to share with him. I think a lot of people don't have their men that they feel safe with.

Yeah.

So they don't want to share it because they don't want the conflict. And I think that our marriage is thriving now because I don't want to resent him. I don't want to be pissed off about something. I was a week ago. So now I'll pull him aside. I was like, something happened, and I said, hey, a couple hours ago, you did this. I didn't like it, and I don't want to be mad anymore.

Yeah, yeah, I know you were mad.

I was like, yeah, that's why I wasn't talking to you. But then we both get over it. But the safe place that you guys have now worked at for so long.

Well, you two have. The fun thing is we didn't talk anything about business.

And that's the fun part is going to go.

No, that's the fun part about this show because, like, it's like, there's very few conversations. Like, every couple we've. That we've met with, like, they have all this other shit going on, but everybody knows them because of those things. And then here on the show, we talk about the stuff that we feel, at least in our lane, and what we're doing is the stuff that all these entrepreneurial couples are struggling the most with, which is all this real conversation that they're struggling to have with each other is how we even started the show is we were just talking one day, like, years ago. We're like, you know what I think, like, the hard we talk about, I think people would, like, want to hear this, like, because maybe it would help.

Them, and that's how marriages would end. Nobody's talking about it. So you'd see these, like, high producing couples, and you're like, wait, they got divorced?

There's nobody's talking about it. Like, what you're Doing. That's why I say what you just did on this show, what you guys have just done, you don't understand. You just saved marriages today. Because this show now is embedded, and it goes out to my entire network, tens of thousands of my couples, let alone what we see publicly. My world is not very public. My world is. Might have iceberg empire. So, like, the world, the movement I run is underground. And then there's what everybody sees and thinks is going on, and then there's what we really do. But there's too many couples where the guy is not powerful enough to hear it or the girl's not powerful enough to say it. And so what happens? They either go to sedation and pretend.

Yeah.

Which is death. Or divorce. Or both.

Pretend and then divorce.

Pretend and then divorce.

Well, think about, like, our parents. Like, divorce wasn't an option. Like, that's why I would say. I would say our parents. Like, I don't even know if both.

Our parents would be divorced now.

They really would, but it wasn't an option. And now it's like, oh, you didn't take out the garbage. Screw you, I'm getting divorced. You know, like, it's just. It's sad, but it's like, that's how easy to. Especially, like, in Orange County. Like, it's. It's just wild. Like, people think the grass is going to be greener on the other side. And they say the most powerful man is the one that actually puts in the effort and is like, I can get me another wife. I can give me one of those. At what point is that unfulfilling?

You know, Water the grass.

Yeah.

There's a lot of that unhappiness.

Yeah.

And even inside. Even. And even. Unfortunately, even inside the church. Right. So you look inside the church and you're thinking, oh, here's all the people that have the truth of Christ. And yet sexless marriages run through the roof. Disconnection, dysfunction. People who read of the Word, know nothing of relationship with Christ. They know nothing of the blood of Christ. They know nothing of healing. They just use lip service and good worship. Music of a donuts, free child care. Like, the church culture, world's as bad as anything. But then you have beacons inside and outside the church who kind of ride both lines. I can roll up in a church. I have no problem with it. Send me some good worship. Let's go.

Do you feel like since your relationship with God has changed, that you're now receiving more? I don't say downloads, but I almost feel like it speaks through us and then it gives us like more opportunities. Like, has he. Have you seen a change there or did you just kind of like let go of that anger?

The biggest, most profound change that I have seen is in my relationship with my children, believe it or not, and my ability to calm my anxiety. You know, there are several times in the past few months with some big things we're working on that I had to excuse myself. I even told Andrew, who was in the room working with me, I was like, I have to go pee. And then like two days later I was like, do you know what I actually did? I went into my bedroom and fell on my hands and knees and put my forehead on the ground and just prayed. Prayed for mercy in that situation, in the call that I had just ended. And what's interesting that I've never experienced in my prayer life before is I actually get relief now. If I spend a few minutes in prayer on something that is emotionally, physically, mentally overwhelming me, I actually can stand up from that session now feeling relief. 5%, 50%, in some cases relief, which I've never experienced before.

Which last year he'd be like, yeah.

I'd pray and nothing would happen.

Like, why do I pray? God's either going to provide or he's not. What's the point of praying? And so for him to come this full 360 to be like, hey, now I'm on my knees praying to God and it brings some kind of relief to him, is incredible to see because he never thought that before.

Yeah. So it changed my prayer life dramatically. And the way that I pray for my children has changed their lives. It's crazy. And I pray for them now in a way that I never have before. Just affirmations over their lives. And they love it. Yeah, they love it. And so I think, I think the biggest change is my prayer life, for sure.

Pray for your kids. Like, hey, can I pray overnight?

Yeah, so we used to, we've always done it.

Oh really?

When Daddy does it, they're like, I love when Daddy prays for me. I'm like, what's wrong with my.

I just speak truth over them.

I just love.

I put my hand on their, on their body, on their back and I just pray like, thank you, God, for, for making you beautiful and smart and passionate and having a huge calling on your life. And like, I'm just speaking affirmations in every prayer and they believe it. And even my 11 year old now says, daddy, what do you think my calling is on my life? What do you think God has planned for me? Those are not conversations we had before and of. That's her, you know, development and maturity now she's 11. But yeah, it's. It's new. It's only been since March and you know, it's been a few months. But it's. It's better. It's worth might sound woo woo to some of the listeners or whoever, but I'm never going back before.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Once you start.

It was all to me three years ago.

Yeah.

So like that's why everybody's kind of.

Feeling the same way.

And there's a permission slip to it and that's a piece of. It is like. Like it's. It's unapologetically. It's speaking your truth. Being able to shares around because like, I could be upset about time, but I have people quit programs. With like one of our larger programs. We just rolled out and went badass. Dudes in this group, two dudes gone after the first call. I can't do this. I just can't get on board with this Bible shit. I was like, dude, if I asked you to read a New York Times bestselling book by Jack Mehoff Robinson, you'd be like, okay, coach. But I tell you to read the Bible and all of a sudden you got an opinion.

Now they're.

I was like, you came to me for mentorship, and then the first assignment I gave you, you're like, go fuck yourself. So the challenge too, is that, like, there's not enough people talking about the both sides. Hey, you know what? I was in go fuck yourself God mode. Just, you know, I was a missionary dude.

Yeah.

And then I was in go fuck yourself God mode. Doing what? Blow drying. I was arguing with the goddamn rain. I'm out here, Noah, trying to dry up the fucking flood with my weed blower. With my wife laughing at me in the kitchen. And I'm blowing in her blow you. And I'm putting my hand on my kids and I'm praying for them. If guys can see this contrast, that is. We're humans.

Yeah.

So people think that's not how Jesus would do it. Good news update. Not Jesus, Garrett. Fuck up Jesus. Not a fuck up. So I got a hall pass. I'm doing my best I can. I'm crazy angry yelling leaf blower guy out here. Me chasing seagulls and throwing shit at him and doing. Looking like an idiot and then doing the thing. So, like this whole like, what your story in turn has been, we're telling you from Our position and what we've getting to see and what's happened to us and as many couples as we've got to sit with, this is a God thing and he is raising up kings and queens right now.

I agree. All over the world, yes.

In Christianity, in the Muslim faith, in the Jewish faith, we're watching God. Rachanna, go. Just bring people up.

I'd always be like, I'm not a Bible thumper now. I'm like, praise the Lord. Praise the Lord. Now my hands are up. A church. Church. And I used to always be like, oh, my gosh.

Not doing the hands. Yeah, that's a little weird sitting here. Not the hands. She was doing hands. I got even. Not two hands. She's not quite there yet. She got it. I looked over, she was creeping a one hand. I was like, we got a one hand creeper. Pastor Mark was like, saw the one hand. The one hand's happening. Well, thank you both for being here and for coming on the show. And I know this was a connection with AK and Amber and how much they care and appreciate and love you guys. And we appreciate you taking a chance to come here to. To our house, to this really shitty view and.

Yeah, that's what's going on here in.

The OC and for helping bring the garbage in, because that's how you normally start a podcast. Like, hey, guys, get your. I knew that you're. I knew you were already a contributor to taking the garbage out for your wife. I figured you'd do that for me.

That was.

Of course it worked.

I'm trained now.

We're brothers for life. We did garbage.

You guys came in and everybody's like, where are you guys? He goes, oh, we just took in the garbage.

I was like, we took in the garbage. We saw the pool room, we came through the garage, we walked through the messy laundry. Yeah, we're good.

Yeah.

Well, thank you for being here.

And then we went through our messy laundry, so it's all good.

Hey, anything Sonia you'd like to share to wrap us up for today?

I don't know. I just. I had a great time. I never realized all the little things that we've learned through our marriage. And I'm so grateful that we're able to share this with other people. And I hope maybe they take the little nuggets like you have the known, loved and seen part or, you know, just something from it and. And just know to communicate with their significant other and try and not give up, you know, give it everything you have and fight for it, just like you do in business.

I feel like the biggest thing you guys being here will give other couples permission.

Yeah, big time.

Yeah. So thank you for being here. It was fun to get to know you guys.

Yeah. You two are amazing. All right, babe, wrap us up.

You want me to wrap us up?

Why not?

All right, guys. So we are doing the date you write podcast. Garrett and I started this podcast probably, like, five years ago, but we've been more consistent in the last year, and it's been an amazing journey. And sometimes I feel like you feel called to do something and you don't know where it's going to go. But if you trust and have faith, I promise you that doors and opportunities will open up. So if you're listening to this podcast, if you feel impact from this podcast, share it with your friends, share it with your family members, because it's a game of reach and impact that's really going to change marriages and really going to impact children today. So thank you so much for listening, and tune into another day at your right podcast every single week.