Exploring the "Toxicity" of the "I Don't Need a Man" Mentality

Not to say that I picked my family over my career, but I feel like I could have pursued my career way more than even what I have. But I value my family and ultimately wanted you to produce 10x more than me. I was like, that's sexy to me. That's attractive. So I kind of, like, pumped the brakes. Hello. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the date you write podcast. I am Danielle White. This is Mr. Garrett James White. He is insistent that you never leave out his middle initial with anything. I guess I do the same thing because my brand's called DKW Styling.

Yep. I started that middle initial thing for our whole family.

I. You know what's so funny? This isn't funny at all. But when I first created my brand 12 years ago, I was like, what can I. What can I call my brand that's, like, never going to get old, and my dad's company is just David H. Wathon. And I was like, I'll just do dkw. And I remember thinking at the time, I was like, ooh, but I don't know if I want to be married to this guy. But I was like, no problem. If I go back to my maiden name. It's also.

Were you really thinking that?

Yes, I was.

When you started dkw, you're like, I don't know if I'd be married to this guy.

So, yeah, we were like, no, that's the reason I launched. That was the reason I launched my brand is I was like, I think if I would have just, like, if we didn't, like, have the fall and the crash of our finances, I probably would have just, like, coast along and been. I don't know if I'd been fine, but I would have probably not pursued my brand the way I had. I've always loved working and being independent, and I've really always enjoyed doing hair and the craft of it, but I don't think I would have been the businesswoman I am. I know I wouldn't have been the businesswoman I am today had we hadn't have kind of gone through this tough phase of like, hey, are we gonna get married? And then I was like, okay, well, I don't want to be coded. I don't want to be dependent on a guy. Even if I choose to move on and marry somebody else, I wanted to have a great lifestyle for myself and my kids. So that's what inspired me to start my brand. But, yeah, it was called DKW Styling.

Which, if we had gotten divorced, she still could have Been Danielle K. Waffin.

I know. That's what I was saying is like, I. I picked the name thinking, like, I'll. I'm not gonna tell him this, but if it doesn't pan out, I can still use this brand.

Do you think that this whole I don't need a man thing is a little bit toxic?

Wait, who says you don't need a man?

You just said it. Meaning. What I say is like, you. Your drive was.

I didn't say anything.

I didn't want to depend on a man.

Yeah. That doesn't mean I don't.

I know. That's what I'm asking. Is that. Is that. Is that toxic from the female perspective? You think that's a positive thing? I don't. I don't want to. I'm not saying it's. You're wrong for saying it. I'm just saying, is it for women?

I was in a space.

Don't need to depend on.

I was in a space where I was very hurt, like, you had emotionally cheated on me. And I was like, wow. Like, I was so. I was just so hurt that it was like, even the. The idea of trusting any man again. Do you know what I mean? So I'm sure there was a piece of me had. Not only was our marriage dysfunctioning, but maybe had it not been in those circumstances, I maybe wouldn't have thought that, but I was kind of like, fuck, man, at that point, because I'm like, the guy I'm married to is, like, out dating another woman right now, and I'm nine months pregnant with his second daughter. So, hey, if you're just tuning into this podcast, welcome to our life. And we've come a long way since then. We now have four children. We have four daughters and a stepson, so things obviously worked out, but about 12 years ago, we pretty much lost everything. Selling furniture out of our house to afford to move to Arizona, start fresh, both of us. This is really the birth of Wake Up Warrior, which is Garrett's company, and naturally row hair extensions and DKW styling. And so we kind of. Everything happened how it did, but we circled back around, and that's why we. We share our story. Because I feel like we're in a good space now. Some days. Not some days. Yes, but, you know.

Yep. Well, I love it, but.

Yeah. I don't know if it's toxic or not. I don't.

I always think about the premise. Right. So it was created that statement. Because that's not just a statement. You say that's like become an ideology for women now is I don't want to depend on a man.

I don't think that's a problem. I was actually.

Okay, tell more.

I. I think then you're in a space of like, you're choosing to together. Like in the back of a woman's mind, if she feels like she can't actually leave because she is dependent on him producing for her, then she's kind of stuck. So I don't think that that's toxic or a problem. And if a man can't handle that, that's on him. Like, he should ask himself, am I with a woman just because of my money? If I didn't have this money, like, could. Would she still want to be with me?

I don't know if most women would be with their husbands at the. They didn't have money for long.

Were you? What?

I said if I didn't make any money for the next five years, you wouldn't stay with me?

Well, there's some relationships where the guys.

If we went bankrupt and I had no money for the next five, six years, would you say with me?

I don't know. It's hard to say no. Well, here's what I'm saying. There's. Well, I see a lot of women who.

It's not just about money, but it's like. What I'm saying is like, that's like saying, would I stay with you if you put on £200 and became diabetic five years from now? No.

What if I had a thyroid condition?

That would be a condition we could look at. But if that, like, legitimately. If you look at this from the same place, I'm saying if you became a 400 pound blimp and I became a destitute cardboard in a box provider. So does that mean our love is conditional?

I guess so. Because I don't think I would have the same attraction factor.

So here's the deal. Our love is unconditional. Our loyalty is conditional.

What?

Listen to what I said. Our loyalty is conditional. And people hear that and they're like, what? And I was like, no, seriously, think about it. Our love for our daughter Bailey, unconditional. Our loyalty to her behaviors, conditional. Meaning you want to be a jackass, right? Then you're gonna get a jackass response. It doesn't mean that I don't love you. So that means that you're saying like in marriage.

Well, truth. Well, it's like saying, if you cheated on me, like, would I say absolutely not? Like, it doesn't mean I don't love you, but your behaviors are, like, unacceptable. So I'm like, I'll see you later.

Is there any condition in which you would say with me if I cheated?

Not who I am now? No. When. Prior to this, I think I was like, when everything kind of went down, I was like, it was weird because you didn't have sex with this woman. You were kind of like on an emotional affair and you had kissed her. And so when you told me, you're like, you kind of trickled the truth out. It wasn't like you were like, hey, I just want to let you know I kissed so and so. And I was like, oh, thank God. That's it. I'm like, thinking there was more. Then later it came out okay. It was kind of a make out. Okay, well, we were actually, like, going on, like, walks and talks like, almost every day. I was like, okay, well, this sir got a little bit more interesting. So this truth, like, trickled out over like a year. So, yeah, like, that's when I was like, had, like, we had just had our second baby. And I think I didn't believe in myself enough to be a producer at that point. So even though you weren't making any money, I still didn't believe in myself enough. But then as I started to produce and make a little bit, I was like, okay, I am less tolerant of these behaviors because I was like, I don't want to. If he's not gonna come with me, then, like, it's not. We're just gonna drift apart.

Okay, so coming back to this topic then, of I don't want to depend on a woman or on a man. I think, like, what I experienced from the male side is that it's. It's an interesting piece because that translates into a woman needs to be a producer. And then the challenge with a woman becoming a very intense producer is what. What's the challenge of the woman becoming a very intense producer with a man who's a very intense producer.

Oh, with a man. That's a very.

Yeah, I mean, it's happened to most couples. Most couples both have jobs, both are working professions, both are pursuing.

I think you, in my experience, like, I feel like I have to separate those roles where it's like, because I feel like I am very feminine, but I also am very driven. And so there's two different energies. It's. It's feminine, masculine, but it's more like alpha energy towards. Towards like my, My. My business, like a strong energy. And so I've Just had to learn how to consciously make an effort to be more playful and flirty with you. Like, I don't know if you've noticed it.

Yeah.

I mean, hopefully you've noticed. I feel like that's what's kind of keeps our marriage alive, because it was, like, five years. Yeah. When I wasn't. When we were working through our shit, I had no desire to bring out playful Danielle, but I feel like I'm very naturally, like, goofy and playful and. And like, when, obviously when we were first dating and together, that's the piece that we really connected on was just, like, this fun, playful side. And then I kind of shut down. We both kind of shut down, and we're trying to raise two kids and build businesses and repair our marriage. And so it became a very competitive nature with us, in a way, and both of us were trying to play that alpha role. And then when I wanted my marriage to work out, I almost had to, like, pump the brakes a little bit. I was like, okay, pump the brakes on what? Like, meaning, like, I. Not to say that I picked my family over my career, but I feel like I could have pursued my career way more than even what I have. But I value my family and ultimately wanted you to produce 10x more than me. I was like, that's sexy to me. That's attractive. So I kind of, like, pumped the brakes where I. Like, not that I didn't care, but I was not so obsessive about my craft and working and building a business, and I just pumped the brakes and. And I started to let this kind of flirty side out, and I felt like that's when you and I started to build back the chemistry. Because we went from, like, people are always like, how did you get. Like, you guys, like, seem like you're doing great, but why? I think we have pretty good chemistry. I mean, not like 24 7. It's not like a romance novel, but, like, Go to Paris and it's like a movie. Like, it's. It's good. And so I had to differentiate the roles. And I still feel like I'm like a producer, but I've kind of just, like, pumped the brakes a little bit.

So has that changed your statement? The core of I don't need to be. I don't want to be dependent on a man.

No. Because I still think it's very important for women to have their own independence. Like, I would teach all of my daughters to have that. I would never want my daughters to be in a situation where they're Maybe in a destructive relationship and feel like they can't go do it on their own. I would never, ever encourage any of my four daughters to. To do. Just solely depend on a man. Ever. And so for me, even in the very beginning, when we got married in the Mormon culture, in the Mormon bubble which we were raised in, it was very much like, the guy's the hunter, the guy's the provider, and the woman just sits back and makes babies. And my mom always worked. My mom was an entrepreneur, so I saw that from her. And that's just kind of how I was. I was raised. And so for me, I always wanted to have my own independence. That's why I did hair, because I could create my own schedule. And I thought, hey, I'm not gonna. I don't want the pressure of paying the bills, but I always wanted, like, a little extra, like, side. Side hustle money. So I wouldn't like, for women. Like, a lot of women feel guilty even, like, buying themselves stuff. I have women that come sit in my salon all the time that are like, they feel guilty for getting extensions because it's not their money. They, like, almost, like, feel unworthy. Even if the husbands are like, babe, you look hot, like, go get extensions. Because they didn't physically go out and hunt and make the money, even though they're like, stay at home moms or whatever, they have this, like, sense of guilt. And I didn't want to, like, have this sense of guilt. I wanted to almost, like, for me, working was like, freedom for myself. Even in the beginning, when I wasn't a producer, like, a producer, this sense of. This sense of just having. Yeah, freedom for myself to, like, not have to ask your permission. If I'm like, hey, like, obviously I'm going to be respectful if, like, we can't spend, you know, two, $3,000 as a family on hair extensions, that's not what I'm going to go get. But at the same token, I wanted that freedom to be able to, like, buy clothes and hair and eyelashes and whatever I wanted.

So is that a freedom to buy things?

No, it's a. It's literally like. It's a freedom just to not feel like I need to, like. I don't want to say permission. It's not necessarily permission, but it's like less guilt based. Like, it's like permission to, like, buy myself stuff without being like, I didn't actually make the money to buy this. I don't need it. Because women do this all the time. Even if the husband's like, no, you, you can buy this. They're like, oh, I don't need it. Like, even power producing couples that we know, the women still, a lot of. Some of the women are just like, oh, they like feel guilty. I'm like, dude, your husband's like a bazillionaire. Like, why do you not have like nicer things? Like, they just can't justify it. And I think it's honestly like the culture in which we are raised in is part of it. So.

So how much of that is the, the fact that women don't see the value they have in what they do at the house?

They. They probably. Some women probably have no problem with it, but some problem. Some probably like feel guilty about it. And then if you have like a husband that like, not like the nicest about it, it might even like make it worse.

So, so we have this game of I want freedom. So I'm pursuing freedom in being able to provide for myself, but I can't necessarily pay the bills, but I do have enough for shopping. And at the same token, a sense.

Of it's not that I couldn't pay the bills. I didn't want the responsibility of paying the bills. Like, even when we were first married and living in Vegas, I remember I would contribute to the bills quite a bit. Like, you would. You like, you would pay the bills. But there was, you know, several times you'd be like, hey, can you spot me five grand for the bills this month? I didn't think it was weird and didn't have an issue. I was like, excited that I had savings, like from working and doing hair, that I could contribute, contribute to the family. So I believe that it's. I didn't want the responsibility of paying bills. I think because I knew I always early on I was like, hey, I know I want to be a mom. So I'm glad that I have the skill and this trade that I can use. I think it's so important for people to have a skill and a trade no matter if you go to college or whatnot. And so for me, I was like, hey, I know I always want to be a mom, but so just, I don't want to be responsible. I don't want to have our house in the very beginning be like 50 50. Because I was like, if I choose not to contribute, I want to be able to raise my children. So that was kind of like my mindset behind it was like, not that I couldn't pay the bills, but I wanted you to have that responsibility. So that we weren't dependent on my money so that I could stay home and be a mom if I chose to. Turns out after I had my first baby, six months after I took six months off with Bailey, I was losing my shit. I was like going crazy. And my sister was like, that's actually when I got really into fitness. Because I was like, there's nothing else to do. I guess I'll just go work out. And I remember my sister was like, why don't you come back to work? I was like, I don't have to because you were producing. And I was like, oh, no, I don't have to. And she's like, do it for your own sanity. And I was like, really? She's like, yeah. Like, you don't you want to, like, have your own, like, independence, like your own, like, thing to do? And I was like, okay.

So was it more about having something to do than it is about making money?

I love. I've always really enjoyed doing hair. Like, especially early on. Like, it didn't seem like work. It was fun. It wasn't until it felt like work. When I was working 12 hour days and leaving at 8 o' clock in the morning and coming home at 8 o' clock at night, that's when I started to like you talk to any hairstylist. That's the burnout phase of the career when you're just like, oh, what was fun and awesome? Like, is now sucks because artists are very passionate about what they do. Like, we genuinely love working with people, we love working in the service industry. We take a lot of pride in our craft and our art. But it's like anything if you do it, it's not fun if you do it 12 hours a day, you know, four days, five days a week.

So don't want to be dependent on a man. Do want to feel a sense of purpose, do want to be able to provide for myself, but yet don't want the pressure of being able to be the producer. Do you think this narrative still runs at the core for you? I don't want to be dependent on a man.

No, not really. I honestly, I know that I. My companies make enough that I. But I find it very attractive that you are, you know, producing and I have like, no, I like being taken care of. Does that make sense? Like, to me, I'm like, the years that I felt like I wasn't taken care of, I was like, very turned off. Like, even though I was kind of in that alpha role, I'm like, I don't want To, I, I need you to be in the alpha role. Like, even if I'm alpha and you have two power producers, I need you to be more alpha than me. Like, to me, there's more chemistry in, in kind of you having that role and me having that role where it's like, hey, I need to, like I said, like, pump the brakes and be kind of flirty and playful to, to not have, you know, not have any conflict. I guess I have not have any war.

What if you were a full time producer and I was a house husband?

We wouldn't be married.

You couldn't do it.

No.

You couldn't do it if you were the full time producer. Like, what if you were making like a hundred million a year running your companies and I was the greatest homeschool teacher of all time?

You'd have to make some money. Like, if I'm making. What'd you say, 150 million?

Yeah, like I'm making. No. Why would I have to make any money?

Because it's just sexier. Like, it's not.

But if I made like, I would resent you.

Like home making cookies.

No, I was home, like, guiding the most important assets in our family.

I couldn't do it. And I understand.

What if I could? What if I was the house husband?

I know.

Are you saying you'd still be turned off?

Yes.

Is it because I'm not producing or because I'm not working or what I would be allowed.

There would be a lack of respect.

What if you hired me as a homeschool teacher for 50 million a year?

I mean, you do have a PE degree.

I mean, could it be some people can pull this off? Like a house husband?

I, I don't know. We've never been in that role. But like I said, the only reason I don't think that I could do it is because when I felt like I was like having to step up and there was like a period where I was like, I literally, there was a few years where I was like, maybe he. I'm supposed to be the producer. And I just, I remember being. It was. Felt very heavy and I, But I was like, I have to entertain this role. Like, I have to. And it pushed me out of my comfort zones a lot and made me who I am today. But during that time, I didn't have the respect that I have for you today. I didn't, I wasn't, I didn't have the same chemistry. It wasn't until you, like, finally I was like, Like I. Not finally, but I Kind of felt like you, like, left me in the dust, and I was like, thank you. Please leave me in the desk. Like, I was like, I don't want to steer the ship anymore.

I don't know if women were built to actually deal with that pressure naturally. I don't think. I don't know if God built.

Yeah, I don't. I can deal with a lot of pressure, but it's definitely different. Yeah. Like, I.

Like, you even say the reason why you don't want to feel the responsibility to have to pay the bills, even if you want to make money, is because of the pressure. And that pressure burns women up.

Yeah, it's. Well, it's. It takes away from.

Turns them into men.

I was going to say it takes a little bit of the femininity away.

It takes them all. The feminine away.

Like, it. Like, if I have that pressure, like, I love where I'm at currently in my business, because I don't. There's certain things I want my hand in, like, a little bit of everything. The marketing, the art, like, the building of teams. Like, all. Like, I want to be part of all that. I don't want to see a fucking spreadsheet. Like, I want to, like, have the meetings we do with Jeff where it's like, here's where we're at. The awareness is great. I don't want to. Like, there's little things in my business I have no desire to manage because it just pisses me off, and so I have to let go. Like, there was a lot of years where I think my. Not my. My more masculine or my more alpha role came out when I was trying to do it all, and I was. I was very, like, frustrated and stressed and trying to manage everything. And it wasn't until I started to let go of elements inside of my business where I literally felt like this more feminine power kind of come back. Like, I'm like, oh, and you're right, it's like, because I was eliminating stress by delegating to other team members, or whether I was advocating or delegating, some of that pressure was off of my plate. Plate, which allowed me to just be, like, lighter in a way.

So the pressure actually squashes your feminine energy.

It. I mean, I naturally. I think it does. Like, because I go into it like a dude would, like, I'm like, gotta fight a battle. You know what I mean? Like, we've gotta put out some fires today, dude.

I get it.

Yeah. So. And I think it's very common, especially, like, for. I mean, we Were talking about this in therapy where it's like, I think it's guys have that natural like, oh, I'm going out to fight the war. And I even said to you the other day or in therapy today, I was like, hey, I find it very sexy that you go and fight the war. I said, but you need to be very strategic about your strikes. And when you come home, I can't have you be at war with me. So at the same token, when I had to really, like, okay, I can be business Danielle and then come back and step into my feminine role, that's where I'm kind of like, I love sexy fighter Garrett, but I need you to like, come in and like, also put on a playful role with me at the home. Now that's going to look different, you know, but when you're with the kids and you're playing, like, I'm like, ah. And you kind of like let loose a little bit like that to me is, is. Is sexy. And that's where I feel like we can kind of both produce independently and together.

So when you don't let go of that masculine or you're in that intense, don't want to have to depend on a man energy, it creates a collision and war with me. Meaning the reason why you don't want me to be a house husband is because being a house husband is not. It's not biologically built into men. I'm not saying that a man can't. I'm not saying that we can't care for our children. I'm saying that being a house husband is not a societal thing. Being a house husband is a genetic thing. Men were not built to sit around and emotionally provide for their family. This is not what men were built by. God didn't even build men to be like this. We're not naturally like this. It's why it takes an incredible amount of work for a man to be emotionally available and listen to his wife and his children. It takes an incredible amount of emotion to be able to make the transition coming from war zone to home zone. And so that same flip right where it's like expected that a woman can feel safe and secure and provided for and have no stress about money and bills etc and all that's on the guy. The flip side, I watch a lot of women not only have their husbands go hunt, but then dump all of the baggage with the kids on their husbands too. So then we got guys coming home who are doing this really up game, which I played, which is really trying to Earn. Yeah, I'm gonna try to earn. So I'm gonna come home and do all these things. I'm gonna clean the kitchen, I'm gonna help my wife and do all this. And really, at the end of the day, I just want to get. So they're in this place where it's like playing this, this dual game. Because, like, think about it, like, you get more breaks during the week than I do. I think about that.

You get more breaks than I do, I think. Well, I think for stay at home. Here's my solved. I totally hear what you're saying with, like, the guys. And here's what has helped us is because I'll tell you when I was like, more a stay at home mom with our other first two when they were little and there. There were days, especially during, like, the toddler phase, like how Charlie and Isla are right now, where you, like, you get home and I'm like, please take your children. Like, I know you think it's not stressful, but when you hear whining and crying and you're grocery shopping and you're cleaning and you're doing the laundry and you're like, I don't have fucking time to take a shower. Like, it is exhausting. And so as much as you're like, so we don't see what the guy's doing at work, probably know we're like, what are you, Are you just around at work? Like, what are you doing? Because, like, I love my job. There's, like, days that are stressful, but ultimately there, there's days where, like, my job, like, at the salon could refuel me. Like, I'm like, I love my clients. I didn't work a 12 hour day. It was like a six, eight hour day. So I can, I can work and come home and, like, feel energy. So at the same token, like, we don't see what the guys are doing at the office. So if we're having a tough day with the kids, we're like, babe, you. You're on the babies. Like, so I would say to eliminate this, the guy needs to not be such a cheap asshole if he's coming home and his wife's exhausted. Help a girl out and hire some help. Even if, even if it's like, hey, babe, we have somebody coming to the house for two hours every day. You can do whatever you want. Like, you want to go to the gym, you want to go to Target, you want to go to Chick Fil A, just checking off all the Utah things. Then you do that lifetime Fitness and.

Chick Fil A, here we come.

But at the same token, I think it's important for the woman to like, accept that, like, hey, you don't get a bitch at me when I. Or you don't get to hand the kids off if you're not accepting help. Because there's a lot of women, like, I got it all. I don't need help. I can do it all. But then at the same time, you're like, babe, you come home and she's exhausted, then it's like, no. So I would encourage, like, anybody who's listening to this, if that's you. Like, the woman needs to be receptive to hiring help in the home, and the guy needs to make enough money to provide that for his wife.

I like it. Okay, so house, husband's out. Okay, that's not happening. I guess I was like, really hoping that was my grat. My retirement strategy. They're gonna go be my sugar mama.

Is if you have some residual coming in, I'll let you do that.

Here's the thing though. You got like women who are deep, deep producers, like in the game. Like, they're making great money. They're a little bit older, in their 40s, and, you know, early 50s in that place. And these women are. These women are very unlikely to find a power producing husband who's bigger money than them.

Really? What about, okay, a bunch of boy toys? I'm not gonna name names, but like, for example, you're one guy, he's a producer. We're trying to set him up with where? My sister's friend, she's a realtor. She makes good money. She's my. I think she's like my. Okay, but I'm just saying, you said it's gonna be hard for her to find a cute guy. He's a cute guy. He's a producer. She's in her 40s, has kids and makes money too. And like, that's a couple that could potentially like.

Well, she's super feminine though.

What does that have to do with anything? You just made the statement of, like, it's unlikely for a producing 40 year old.

She's not making the kind of money I'm talking about.

Oh, okay. Well, I've heard she does well.

Well, I know, but she's not making millions.

Okay, well, I. You said producing.

I know, but I'm just saying I was thinking women are doing like. I know, I was thinking about women.

Would have a hard time but finding somebody. I was like, really?

Well, just a lot of powerful women they do. They do have a hard time finding. But, like, the attitude, like, if you look at Ricky, who we're talking about, Ricky's great and she's a big producer and Eric is also a big producer, and Eric makes way more than she does. And at the same token, she's very feminine, which means she doesn't put off the energy, like, go fuck yourself. I'm a producer. I'm a boss.

You're talking about, like, super feminist women. Yeah, they're not. It's not going to work out well.

Boss bitches are not going to end up happy.

You know what?

This is a big fucking narrative.

I know I'm a boss bitch, blah, blah, blah.

And guys are like, go.

I'm like, all for women power. But I also don't like the whole, like, toxic masculinity either. Like, I'm kind of like, somewhere in the middle. I'm like, we got the feminists and we got the top talk. We got the other end of the spectrum. So most people are not on those two ends of the spectrum. So that's where people get lost in the media of, like, a toxic masculinity. Oh, feminist. And you're like, there's more. People are kind of in the middle. So why don't we stop talking about these extremes? Like, normal people like you and I that are not these extremes. Why do we keep trying to compare ourselves?

Because we're influenced by both. Both extremes, though, like, our narrative.

I'm not. I look at it. I'm like, you're a.

And you're kind of a. Yeah, I know, but that's. Maybe you guys should come together in the female space. You're definitely influenced by a modern message of masculinity that blankets women. And I am raised in a generation that has been feminized as men, both in the food that we eat, the water that we drink, the sodas. Everything has had increased estrogen. Most of us were raised by mothers with weak fathers as guys, and we were taught to be men by women. And then you have this whole generation of women being taught to be aggressive and intense and masculine. And I'm telling you right now, we're in a clusterfuck of society right now with. There are more men who were with last weekend. It was.

Well, that's why, like, we were talking.

About how, like, guys are like. Oh, it was like, who's. It was saying, like, guy. You can't even tell most guys. Oh, I was at the gym talking with one of these girls that trained with Stoss. She's, like, older, like, powerful, late, lives here in town. And she was saying the same thing. She's like, yeah. Half the time, I don't even know if it's a guy or a girl. It's like everybody's like. It's like straight vanilla. Men are acting like women, and women are acting like men, and it's like everybody's being just a person now and not even, like, man or woman. And it's creating this polarity distinction that's like. It's, like, shutting off. So women are getting more aggressive, guys are getting weaker and less masculine, and then the polarity switching. The only challenge is women are in this situation because at the end of the day, they want to be taken. You can't be taken by, like, soy boy, stretchy pants at the. At the. At the Starbucks.

Here's the thing.

What that guy's gonna say.

Here's the interesting thing, though. Like, I feel like, sit down.

I'm gonna give it to you with my triple pump espresso from Starbucks.

But here's the thing. I feel like I'm like a crossbreed, like, meaning I. I feel very feminine, but I also gender. I also feel.

Don't tell me.

I talk about transgenders, about, like, women holding themselves to, like, a higher standard. And I am very much for women empowerment. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I would teach all of my daughters to be very powerful women and independent women, and I don't think that that should be viewed as toxic. On the female perspective of, just because you're a boss, babe, that's a bad thing. I think that for me, I have been able to work, build a business, and be a mom, and I don't think that that's a problem for women to do that. I don't think that women. I think women should have a purpose outside of their children, whether they make money with that purpose or they don't.

So it doesn't matter if they make money.

I mean, I personally want to make.

Money, but it doesn't matter. In your mind, what you're saying is that a woman should have purpose.

I think she should have purpose and independence outside of her husband and her children. Absolutely.

What if she has deep sense of purpose in her husband and her children? And that is.

I think she. It's not. I think that she needs to do.

You don't think there's women that. That's enough. I know that's enough for a lot of women.

Really?

Yeah.

I. I don't like they're greatest.

I know, I know wives of husbands that I coach that their greatest fulfillment in life. They want nothing to do with a job. They don't want to build a business.

But they don't have any time for them. They have tons of time outside of their husband.

No, no, they have purpose. They don't give a About producing.

Oh, that's fine. I was saying they need to have purpose outside of having just.

But a lot. Vast majority of their purpose. But a vast majority of their purpose is loving and serving and leading their children and loving and serving and leading their. And guiding with their husband.

I would say that's part of my purpose. I mean, like, I 100. Why do you think I, like, pump the brakes? Because I was like, I want to be with my children. I want to work on our relationship. To me, it's. I want to have it all. It's like you teach. You teach balance and having it all. But for me, like, I really enjoy doing hair. That is my art. That is my trade. That is fun for me.

What if you didn't make money?

I didn't make money for like, the. I would always refer to myself as the hobby hairstylist. In the beginning, like, I kind of did it because I enjoyed it and it was like, I made money, but I didn't like, track it. I was just like, oh, cool, like $100 here, $100 here. Like, I didn't really take it that serious. I just really enjoyed, like, I just enjoyed doing hair. So it wasn't until I was like, oh, shit, my money matters. I better start tracking it more than.

So if a woman doesn't make money, she. She can't be a great wife.

I didn't say that.

She needs to be a producer.

I didn't say that.

So what does she have to be then?

I don't care. I've just been explaining from my experience.

Your experience? You need to make money to feel a sense of power and purpose outside the family.

Yeah.

And if you didn't make money, it would it make you feel weak?

I would feel less free, not weak, but I would just feel less. I feel like I have more freedom to kind of spend because I am helping contribute.

So if you weren't making that money, you would feel guilty for spending a little bit, probably. Like, what would you say to the women don't make money? Then? How do they not feel guilty about money?

I don't know. I just. From my experience, I feel more free being able to feel like I contribute financially to the family. And it's come with like, a lot of. For me, a lot of certainty has come from making money. If I didn't make money, I know I wouldn't be the person I am today. I'm like, I'm pretty shy and introverted and I look at who I've become in the last decade and I'm like, there's no fucking way I would be that person. Like, I was the person, like in a, in a dinner setting with people, if they're like, danielle, tell us your story. I was like, no, thank you. And now I have no problem, like, socializing and doing all these things. And I don't think I could have done it if I. If I wasn't working and creating or producing. Like, I just don't think I would have pushed myself out of this shy anxiety pocket and become the person I'm meant to become. Do you think everybody's journey is different?

Right?

And I'm not saying, like, my way is the only way. I just can only express that I know without a doubt I would not be the person I am today without. Without having something outside of just being a mom and a wife. I needed a creative outlet and I needed to produce. Not just just to. To evolve me as a person, not just to kind of have like something to do and have a hobby. It's like it literally made me who I am.

Got it. There is, there's a. The reason why I bring this up and challenge on it is because there's kind of seems to be two camps. There's women that need purpose in the sense of a professional life and a business life and entrepreneurial spirit. I was just talking to one of my guys this morning and his wife, like, she flat out said, like, I can't, I could not be a full time stay at home mom. I'd probably kill all my children. And she's like, very aggressive, but she's, I mean, in business. But she's also very loving with her kids, very protecting, amazing mom, but she's a flat, I'd admit it. And the other one had had a career, was making a couple million a year, and then they had their children and then she walked away and now their kids are in school and now she's finding a sense of purpose of going back to rebuilding her company again. Now while the kid. Just while the kids are in school.

Yeah.

So like the statement just be a mom gets real triggering for a lot of women. Do you feel like that there was a path had I shown up differently where being a producer Wouldn't have made, wouldn't have cared because you brought. You birthed DKW out of the fact that I wasn't providing, I wasn't showing up, and I cheated. And at that pain is when you decided, I don't need to be dependent on a man. I'm gonna go make this money. Had I not shown up that way, do you think it would have gone down?

But I. But what I'm sharing is originally you didn't care. I always sensed. I always sensed before we lost everything and Che, you cheated and all that. I always wanted to work. Like, it was like my own independence.

Got it. I mean, you were doing the lifeguard thing for when you're like 14 or something.

I. My parents told me when I was. I was 14 years old. They were like, literally 14 years old. They're like, okay, Danielle, you either have to pick a sport or you have to work. And I was like, will you pay me to play a sport? And they were like, no. And I was like, I'll work. And I got my first job as a snack bar attendant and. And I walked there every single day and worked as a snack bar attendant. And I would. At a pool. And then I remember thinking, like, man, these lifeguards haven't made. They just sit there in a bikini and like blow a whistle and get tanned. How do you do that? So then I decided to become a lifeguard. Funny part of the story. You have to go. You have to do like a 200 meter or 500 meter swim. I don't know, just to. Just to qualify to do the lifeguard training. And I get in the pool and I thought I could swim. I was like, I know how to swim. Whatever. And literally, like, everybody finishes the. I think it was 500 meter. What's 20 laps? Is that 500 meters?

So 1, 2, 4, 100.

Anyway, I. So I'm like, swimming. I must look like I was drowning because one of the lifeguards comes over. He's like, you're done. I go, oh, no, I got four more laps. He's all, no, no, everybody's finished. You're done. We don't. You can't join. I was like, what do you mean I can't join? He's like, I'm going to need you to like, go learn how to swim and then come back. So I went and I went and signed up for a master swim class at like 15 years old and went like every morning at like 6am and learned how to do breaststroke correctly. Came back six weeks later. And applied to be a lifeguard. And I was like, that's like really a proud moment.

I like it. You were committed. You're like, I want to be a lifeguard. Do you know how to swim? I don't, but I'm here to save other people who are drowning.

I was committed to getting a tan. That's what I was committed to. But I ended up being a lifeguard all through high school and taught swim lessons and then decided to do hair.

How do you, how do you speak to. How would you speak to an empowered daughters then to see. Because sometimes I've heard even in our house where I've watched Bailey with as aggressive as she is in her stance and then you'll take that stance a bit with her and you'll. Then Ruby will kind of fall in line and then I will fall in line and then I find myself at times coming in cross check, which is the idea that you need a purpose outside of the home and your husband. Which I agree, I've said that as one of my four non negotiables. My wife needs to have a purpose outside of me and the kids, which I agree it helps fulfill as an individual, et cetera. And I agree, like deeply. I think it changes a human if they don't have this experience. How do you create a balance with our kids to where the message doesn't become men. I don't need a man versus a. I'm finding power in myself and not a disconnection. Because the summary chapter and a lot of this is a ton of women are going to end up miserably alone. With the attitude that's currently brewing in the marketplace for teenage and 20 something girls. This idea of I'm an independent woman.

I don't need it. Yeah.

And dudes are just going, I'm telling you now, like, there's two guys this morning in calls I was on who. Both of these guys are married to a Polish girl and both these guys are married Polish girl and a Russian girl. Divorced American girls. And this is a trend now happening. Guys marrying women from Europe and the Eastern Bloc.

Maybe, maybe that guy. Like I always have to ask myself, I'm like, if you, if you just. If you're. If you're getting your mail by wife delivered to you, I kind of, I'm.

Like, oh, male delivered by wife. They're just women who think totally different than a man.

But I just, I have to ask myself like, does the standard of men need to raise to, to adapt to these women are not just like, stay at home, like, let me serve you kind of thing. Like, why? Why is that not okay? And all of a sudden women have like this opinion about things and guys are like, you, I make a lot of money. I'm just gonna go get my hot wife, my hot little Russian wife. And I'm like, well, part of me is like, I hear you, but then who's to say that this hot little Russian wife isn't going to do the same damn thing? And did you learn anything from your first marriage? Are you just gonna keep repeating this until you're on your fourth marriage and you're like, I'm in my 60s. And like, I guess I'll just. She's a hot piece of asshole. Stick with her. Like, I get it. But it goes both sides. It goes both ways. Like if you're a producing man and you're like, you're like, she didn't work out. So you just keep trading up to realize, like, where are you going with this? Like, are women not allowed to be opinionated? Are they not allowed to be independent? Are they supposed to just submit to their, their, their husbands and so that's what they want as a super submissive wife? Yeah, they might, or they might like that for a minute until she's not submissive and she gets feisty and then.

They trade her in for another upcoming feisty. I think it's so.

I hear that. But I'm just saying, like, I, for even with Bailey, like, there's nothing I can do about her watching the media and being raised in the. A different era than we are raised in. But I feel like I personally as a mom do a really good job at leading by example and being very feminine and Dodie with you and like showing my, this softer side inside the home. So I think it's like a balance. And I've had multiple conversations with Bailey. I'm like, I love being a mom, you know, and I love my, my kids, my babies. And I've had conversations when she was like, I think I'm gay and this and that. I'm like, I can support that. However. Do you, do you want to be a mom? Would you consider adopting? Do you know what I mean? So I feel like I'm a very open minded person and very open minded with our girls based on the world that they're being raised in today. And I feel like I create this space where I'm like, hey, I support and love you, but I can't dictate how the era you're being raised in, I can Just show up and be your supportive mom and lead by example.

So what's the message you're saying to our daughters, then?

I think. I think based on what the feedback they give me is like, they're like, yeah, my mom's like, my mom's a badass. My mom's a boss. But I also.

What's the message you're giving them? Not by. Not by osmosis. By actual message. What's the message you want our daughters to know about being a woman today?

What's the message? That's a super broad statement.

It's not broad at all. What is it? What do you want them to do?

I think it's important for, like I said in the beginning of the show, I want them to be powerful and independent, and I believe that everybody has their own path of getting there. So I can only share, like, our experiences and what's happened for us. But my messaging for them would literally just be like, you need to stand in your power, whatever that looks like. If that looks like you're super happy doing the mom thing and you have purpose outside of that, that's not necessarily like paying the bills or making money, but as long as you're happy and you're not, you're feeling like this is the path for you. Like, I can support that. I just want them to feel like. I don't ever want them to feel like they're in a relationship because they have to. Like, I would. Would. I want them to be in a relationship because there is love and connection there.

So independent, powerful, having a sense of purpose. And in a relationship where they feel connected.

Yeah.

And they could do all that and not make any money.

They could.

Yeah.

Everybody's path is different.

Make money or they could not make money. All right, I mean, listen, these are all issues that we're facing right now.

But it's so funny because Bailey's very. You're like. It's. I feel like you're one way. And Bailey's, like, super. Kind of like, not super, but she's, like, conservative, liberal, kind of. And I'm just like. I'm somewhere in between. I'm kind of like, oh, I can see what. I can see your stance on things. And then I'm like, babe, why are you trying to fight a war that's not your war? Don't get sucked into the media bullshit. Like, focus on the men, the journey, like, your purpose, like, what you're supposed to do. And then on the other token, it's like, I can like, oh, that's pretty relevant. I can see why that's a good fight to, to or award a wage right now. So I'm kind of like, I, I feel like I'm very open minded, but ultimately, like, I try to listen to my. I call it my higher self. And that's what I would encourage our daughters to do is just be very plugged in so that when you have to make, you know, big decisions in life, that you can tap into another source and make a decision that's right for you and not necessarily right for what the media says or your culture says or your parents say. And I think that comes with just learning how to be a powerful, independent woman.

So what's the final message for all of our female listeners today from you?

My final message is that a relationship is a lot of work. I don't know. What's your final message?

I don't have one. I've just been asking questions today. You've been doing a great job.

Yeah. I encourage all women to stand in their power, and everybody's journey is different, I think, with, even, like I said, like, with, with you. And I, like, I've had to kind of pump the brakes or kind of come full circle to ultimately get what I want. And a lot of times I think that in marriages, couples are fighting for the same thing and they get lost in the weeds. And so it takes both, each, each of the, both the husband and the wife to really understand how to communicate to your partner in order to get what you want. So for me, what's helped me and I would encourage all women to do this is like, sometimes you have to not let the drama and the bullshit affect you, but ask like, okay, what do I want? What is the end goal that I want? And when I try to look at the end goal, I'm very, I almost, I kind of submit more. Do you know what I mean? Like, because I am a powerful woman, but I'm like, okay, what do you want? I want to, I want a healthy relationship with my kids. I want to be a mom. I want to be a producer. I want to be doty with my husband. I'm like, okay, well, then that means X, Y and Z has to happen to get this end result. I can't flip into this role and work 70 hours a week and still expect to be this person. So when I, when I see who I want to become and what that looks like, I do the steps in between to get the end result that I'm looking for. But I'm also a very Head person. I'm always overanalyzing everything and just who I am.

That's why you don't sleep good.

I cannot sleep.

Yeah. Good job today. It's a good show.

I feel like I was talking the most time. I feel like you were, like, interviewing me. You looked a little sleepy, so I was like, I got my Diet Coke. I'm ready.

Not sleepy at all. I just was. I had a test. I said, you know what? I'm doing this show. I'm going to just keep asking her questions and see if she goes off. And she did.

You know, it's so funny. This is how I do. My podcast with my stylists is like, they're always super nervous because I've been having, like, students come in, and they're like. A lot of them are like, I've never done a podcast. I'm like, you're going to do great. I'm going to. I'm going to. We're going to. I'm going to keep us rotating, and then we'll get done. And they'll be like, wow, that wasn't that bad. I was like. Because I've gotten used to doing podcasts, so I'm like, I can ask them a series of questions and then loop it back around. They're like, that wasn't hard at all. I'm like, well, I knew what questions to ask, but thanks for meeting.

That was great. I don't know. I probably asked you 30 questions, and you did great on all 30.

So next week, am I going to ask you.

I don't know. I don't know if you can ask me questions for an hour without going off, probably.

No, I do that with. That's what I was saying. I do that.

Well, we're going to test it next week. Week.

I know you don't.

What's the topic?

Gains sex.

No, 31 questions. You've always wanted to know about sex from me.

I don't want to have a whole show on that.

All right, 31 questions. You want to know about sexual positions? No, with me. 31 questions. You want to know about how I.

Why is it 31.

I don't know. 31 flavors ice cream.

Is that a thing? I think it's like, it's not. 31.

31 flavors.

That's not a thing.

It is Baskin Robbins. 31 flavors.

I have an ice cream. I have a topic.

It's not coming right now. You save it for next week.

Okay, well, I got a good spicy topic.

What's it called? I You'll forget if you don't say it.

Okay, your thoughts, because we both work with a lot of couples. Your thoughts on a healthy marriage and an open relationship.

Open relationships. 31 questions you wanted to know Next week with Garrett J. White. All right, well, that brings the show to a close. Here's the deal. You haven't been talking. I did do an experiment today and I wanted to see what would happen on a show if I just asked her questions the whole time. She fucking did great. And I'm working on my Joe Rogan. There's a new skill I'm trying to pick up, which is talk less, ask more. And Joe Rogan does an amazing job with it. He just, like, digs in with like, questions and he gets people to say all kinds of cool shit. And I'm trying to get better at doing that.

So did I say some cool?

Yeah, of course. He said great. You're beautiful. You're gorgeous. You did great. And we got the real White house episode number two that's going to be dropping on September 29th at Funnel Hacking Live 2023. Me and the entire family are going to be repping the real White House speaking at Funnel Hacking Live for the. I believe it's the 9th.

They used to invite me to speak. Now they don't. I just show up and speak.

They used to ask you for two years in a row and you said yes. And then they build marketing and then you didn't show up. So now I just bring you along and put you in my backpack and we go. So we're gonna speak in there and be dropping episode number two to the real White House date your wife podcast. Obviously happening every single week. We have something unique coming up that I'm gonna tell you about right now that is going to be available to the public starting in October. But in September is our first run test with this is called the date your wife experience, which is a weekly date night with our therapist Danielle and I and well, about 75 to 100 couples inside of Warrior who are participating in a group therapy date night. Really powerful. Imagine my therapist introducing a concept from that. We have a one on one time with you and your spouse during certain segments, then group shares with different couples sharing with each other on the topic and then group discussion. Danielle and I essentially getting therapy done in front of you with our therapists having other couples come in. It's going to be a profound experience. So excited to let you know more about that in October. That'll be coming up then starting in October also be the release of every real White House. The real why his episode happening every single week from here on out the rest of the year. And then finally, finally is the tools of Wake Up Warrior. If you would like to test playing the game of the warriors way for free, you can go to the App Store and look up Warrior app. You can download the app for free today and start playing Core 4. If you're wanting more details on how to use the full suite of the app and the tools that help men and women both to have it all and ultimately build their lives, their marriages, their entire world into a place of deep freedom, we can check that out@wakeupwarrior.com so for today, I am Joe Rogan and this is my guest here on the date your wife podcast.