How Overcoming Fear Transformed Their Marriage: The Freemans' Love Story & Relationship Wisdom

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Day youy Wife Podcast. We are so excited. We are here in Miami, and we have some very qualified date. Your wife, experts on the show, the Freemans. Jocelyn and Aaron, welcome you guys to our. To our living room here in Miami.

Thank you for having us. It's beautiful.

I. I joke around all the time. I'm like, garrett and I, we. I'll say this, we are not counselors. Please do not. The words that are coming out of my mouth are not advice. Okay.

If you want to know who you're listening to, you're listening to the number one highest paid PE Teacher in the world and a hairstylist.

So you did.

So listen, we. We have started doing the show you've seen with couples coming on, sharing amazing wisdom. You guys have been dominating in the space of couples. It was funny because when we were getting ready for the show, I reached out to a ton of people I know, like, what do you know about these guys? What do you know? What do you know?

What do you know?

And I was like, dude, they're awesome. Every top guy in the man space that runs movements all follow your content.

Whoa.

I didn't know this. Oh, I didn't know that until they start talking. Oh, yeah, bro. I've been following for a while, man. They're like, fantastic. The social media game, solid, but the content's incredible. So we're excited to have you today. May get to conversation about business.

Sure.

We're gonna have a different conversation when I start off. I'd like to start the show this way. So you two met for the first time. How long ago?

So 2013. So what? 12 years ago.

12 years ago.

Yeah.

I remember the day. It was July 4th, and it was.

At a gym, actually.

Gym.

And I had a second date.

I thought I would find someone there, and I had failed so many times. But that's a takeaway. You only have to succeed once, right? And so she was by the curl bar rack, and I was. I was working out with a guy I didn't even really know. We just were at the gym at the same time, and so we started talking about her, and all my approaches have failed. Right. And so the one time I'm like, what if I was just myself? Like, what if I was just authentic? And I just walked up to her thing, I just said my name was Erin. She has this tattoo on the back. So that. That really drew me in. And then I just said, did you.

Say something about the tattoo?

Yeah, I think you did that. I think you said you like it.

I think I needed something else to approach it. Right. So that makes sense, bro.

That's good game.

I asked for her email, which I love.

You asked for an email?

I thought it was cute.

In 2013?

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, people asking for cell phones. This was distinction, though. You went for the email.

If a guy asked me that, I'd be like, oh, he doesn't think I'm cute. Jerk.

No, he was being so, like, sweet. And he. The. The excuse was, I want to give some career. I want my friend who's in the same field as you to get some career.

It wasn't a lie, right?

Y. I found some common thread, so I said, a friend of mine is in nursing. And you do nursing at the time, yeah. So I followed up. We went to brunch on our first date.

Did you know she was in nursing before?

Just from, I think, our conversation that first time prior.

Oh, the first time. Oh, you didn't know that before the email request.

That's great.

Okay, got it. Okay. I thought so. Had you known about. Had you seen her at the gym already?

Yeah, a couple of times.

Yeah.

And what did you think about her when you saw her at the gym?

I was so nervous. I'm like, how am I going to approach her?

Okay, so we were thinking of all.

These, you know, game tactics, and I'm like, I'm tired of thinking of it. So again, and just went with the authentic approach.

He was not a dater. And that manifested months later when he tried to break up with me because he was so afraid of relationships. He had a book on his bookshelf, Redeeming Singlehood.

Redeeming Singleness was the name of it.

He thought he would be single for life, really, because of fear. And, you know, that's something he really. He discovered later on. You know, he wasn't conscious of that. But then months in and I. When he said it to me, because he was like, I think we should just be friends. This is getting too serious. I, at the time, was in a leadership program, and I actually had a coach who was like, well, what will you regret? More like saying nothing or. And so I was like, I don't want to be five years in the future and be like, what if I said something to him? What if I said, well, hey, what about the potential in us? So I called him back and I was like, I'm not letting you break up with me because it was fear. It wasn't. I don't think we're compatible. I don't feel alignment there it was, I'm afraid this is getting too serious. And so I was like, let me cut through that crap.

What did you say when she was like, no, you can't break up with.

Me, honestly, because we got this question before, and if you had asked me, what could she say to you? Yeah, like, I wouldn't have had an answer. It was at the subconscious level because, you know, for me, I had no success in dating. I had been broken up with a few relationships that I had. And so there was such a subconscious fear there that I'm just going to be the one that gets hurt eventually. Right. But at a subconscious level. So when she said that doesn't work for me, it like, literally was the thing my mind needed to hear to feel safe enough that, bro, you can go forward with this. You can trust. Like, this can be a relationship that you can count on. But I couldn't have told you that ahead of time. Right. It was something in how she said it, the way she was being that I'm like, oh, well, I'm back in, obviously. So that was my response to say, oh, I'm in.

So did you email her at that point?

He had my number and we were texting.

We had been dating a few months.

The email and the number after a few dates.

No, he got it right at the same time.

Yeah.

I mean, you would have gone down record as the only man I've ever heard of my entire life who got the email. Sent the email and got the date.

Yeah, yeah. Well, no, he did. He got the date from email and then he got my number.

You approached her with the email? Yeah, he didn't have the number the first time. Right.

They went to brunch.

Holy. Open rates are.

That's right.

They do want to hit her junk copywriter. Yeah, you'd be like doing videos about singleness by yourself, like being two characters like the single guys do. Okay, this is great. Okay, so the email campaign works.

Yes.

So you know how to write copy.

Yeah.

Ah, see, all the work came in, all the gameplay. All right, so the email comes, you respond. What do you think the first time you get the email from the guy at the gym?

I was so excited. I had actually, funny enough, I wasn't like a big dater, but I was in a series of like two weeks where I was going on a date almost every single day because I had, like, finally gotten to a place of loving myself. So just prior to meeting him, I had started like about a year, year and a half of self development. That was like just a little bit before him. And before that, I would settle in relationships. I had very low self esteem, didn't really love myself. Got all of my validation and worth from my partners. Dated people who were not in alignment with my values. There was a lot of me trying to heal things from my childhood in relationships. We all know that. And so once I got to this place of loving myself, I literally was attracting men. Like I wasn't even trying. I would be asked out everywhere.

She had that day.

I had a second date planned for that day. But I, I would.

You know what?

She didn't get the email, bro. So you're good.

That's right.

He got the number.

He was going to cancel it. We left brunch and I canceled the other date because I was like, it's either this or better.

Yeah.

And because it was that feeling. And I didn't have that same knowing with anyone else that I had gone. Gone on dates with. And so I.

Actually this is, this is a funny conversation for where I feel like we could all go. Because when you say that, I don't even think I was that great of a person compared to the person I am now. Right. And it just reminds us that marriage is such an evolution. I don't think people are prepared for the changes in themselves.

Yeah.

And their partner. And then how to deal with that dynamic as it happens.

Yeah.

Like when you say this or better. Like I'm such a better person.

You are.

And so. Yeah. Just if that's the place that we go, like that's the thing that we're so just passionate about marriage is I don't think people are fully prepared for the person they become. They will become. And what that means for how your interactions and your dynamics are going to be different as a couple throughout all the years that you're going to be together.

Okay, so come back to the email.

You're all in on this email.

No, I found an already. You're right. We're going there. I can tell. We got some professionals talk about parenting. We got some real counsel around here today. Okay, so what did the email say?

He was really just starting a conversation about like that career question that he wanted to answer for the friend. And it was very. Just like trying to just be friendly. And then we did pay like pen pal back and forth for like the whole week. And then he asked me to brunch.

Then you went to letters.

We went back. We started to send.

Now she's mailing you a letter.

You're like six months later, we went to brunch. Yeah, exactly.

Okay, so you're emailing back and forth. Okay. So did you think she was hot physically when you saw.

Oh, definitely, yeah.

And you had seen her for how many weeks prior to the email exchange?

Maybe three.

Three weeks. So you walk and you notice her. Would you notice first the tattoo? The tattoo and then what you notice?

Just the physique.

Part of the physique.

I don't know if I could say. I think the tattoo just drew me in. And then she was fit, she was attractive.

Wasn't glutes, wasn't calves, wasn't her arms, shoulders, nothing.

No, just her. Her way.

Her way of being. Because dudes that asked for fomo and they're like, I like to. I like their ass to look great. Okay, so he.

We're modest. We're being conservative.

I like his course. It's all right. That's. That's how you guys are, and that's perfect. We wild as shit, so it's great. We're a perfect combination to go out, come hang out, and we'll just blend that cocktail into this little river.

We'll be the vanilla among your chocolate. You know, we'll be a little vanilla.

Blend it up in one blend, and we'll all be. I think we all. Doesn't become white. So anyways, so as you're going down this path, you're emailing your text and you're communicating. You are sensing. And I. I get this because the piece you're talking about change. I was a certain kind of way with Danielle in the first six to nine months we were dating, a way I'd never been.

I wish there were. I wish there was information, like, available. Like, we've been married for 21 years, and, like, we, like, raised each other in a weird way.

Yeah.

And it's like, we didn't really start to figure it out until, like, the last five years. Like, just how to communicate. After three kids, we still were like, what? We know we love each other, but why. Why are we speaking Japanese and Chinese to each other? You know?

And isn't that interesting that it's. It's an area so most people want a partner, they want to get married, they want to start a family. Yet it's the least educated, like, place people are.

Oh, sure.

Like, there's no classes on it.

Right.

Not in high school, not in college. And so that's. We started educating people before it was really popular. Like, we've started almost 10 years into it, and people were like, what do you mean work on your relationship without counseling? You know, people only thought at the time of. Once you're in crisis, start to work on things. And obviously that's way too late. I mean, it's not too late in that you can absolutely overcome crisis, but it's like, you wouldn't be that way in your business.

Yeah.

You would not wait till you're about to be in bankruptcy to seek coaching, to seek support, to seek ideas, wisdom. And so why would you wait until you're marri. Marriages and shambles. And so why do you.

Why do you think that's a program? Why do you think that's, like, how society, even the church, all the churches, every. No matter what religion it is. Like, I've watched it happen. Like, programming is. Don't get help. Hide your.

Yeah, it's scary to talk about it.

I think it's really changing now, thankfully, because of social media and podcasts are changing the conversation. And more and more men and women are coming out and being like, hey, this is relatable. This is going on for everyone. There's nothing to be afraid of, ashamed of. We all struggle with certain things behind closed doors. And so it's more and more, I think, shifting the conversation. I think there's a lot of pride that people have and especially think. And maybe it's for both men and women, but I think men especially are, like, conditioned to, like, just get your crap handled. Right. Like, just, you should have this figured out. Make her happy. And so there's. I don't know. I think it's coming from different.

I mean, you ride the wave of love and passion in the beginning, and so. Yeah, well, you're not. You don't know anything else. Right. We were talking about your kids and how when you had the first one and then you have all of them and, like, they teach each other.

Yeah.

And you don't have that in marriage. It's like you're the one figuring it out. You're the one going first. And so, I don't know, you look out there, other marriages, your parents, marriages, and you feel the companionship and the passion and the love. And you're like, we're going to be different. We're not going to be like our friends or our parents. And so you come into it with such an optimistic mentality, which you should. But I mean, we do think marriage is a lot like business. You want to be optimistic. Right. You want to be that delusional optimism, in a sense. But also know that, again, you're going to change you're going to have to have the right skills and tools. You're going to come across challenges, and so you're going to need more than what you have now, and you'll be more of a person and a partner in the future. But you just, you know, you just don't know that because you're the one going down the path.

I think everybody who's considering getting married, it should be like a requirement to take a course. Like, you can't get married. I'm sorry you didn't complete your credentials. Like, you can't get married. Like, seriously, like, think about it. How many marriages might be saved if you, like, actually had some tactics and some tools going into it?

I think absolutely some before getting engaged, married. And I will say that even people that come to us who've done a lot of self development and even in the first few years of marriage, it's totally different than even once you have kids. I feel like you almost graduate into, like the next class marriage college. I mean, yeah, so much evolved for us when having our daughter and we were already married for seven years. And so I think that's the mentality we always encourage with couples is there's no destination. If you take your foot off the gas and think you got it handled, you're actually like, behind. Yeah, you have to think about this season of life, what we're facing, what we're dealing with, what is. What does marriage require of me now? I can't bank on what I was doing five years ago because maybe we have a young child now. So it's totally different than what it was before. And so having that mindset of, to Aaron's point, like, we're always evolving and continuing to grow. Like, we can't just sit back and be like, oh, yeah, I got marriage.

When you can't really be an autopilot. Like, for us, like, we had a couple years where we were in autopilot, and all of a sudden I was like, I'm super depressed. Why am I. What? We have the cars and the houses and all these things and I don't care. I'd give it all back.

Is easy, though. When you, I mean, you start throwing, you start throwing multiple kids in the mix. You're running multiple.

Just like, you don't even know this. You're drifting.

There's so much going on at the same time. And that's when communication breaks down. People stop as well. They're like searching so much on social media for some type of help. But just watching content isn't going to be enough. Like, because getting into it for conversation is like so difficult. The communication factor, just getting guys to be honest about what is really going on with them and then share it with their spouse, but vice versa. Very difficult for women to be honest because how reactive men typically are to the truth. So did you see this version of him in the spiritually like he is now when you first went, go back to the gym, he's checking out your glutes and your tattoo.

I know what's going on.

And she knows. I know, you know, we all know.

Being modest.

Just being modest behind the email campaign. I get it, I get it. Direct response marketer at the gym. That's incredible. So what, what did you see? Because I feel like Danielle had the same thing with me and then I disappeared for 20 years and then I just came back in the last two years. Literally.

Like, like in the last, like couple years. I'm like, there you are. Like, it's been wild. I'm like, God, I'm a patient woman.

Yes, you are.

So talk about that feel because a lot of couples that we met, they have that. They lose that and they forget that. Like, what were you seeing in him? Knowing that he's 100x the man he was when you met? And typically women tend to be a little more advanced than the guys in this game for sure. What was it you were seeing or feeling at that time that had you go not only cancel the second date and the other 17 coming in the.

Next week, but work through the him attempting to break up with me? Everything I said I love you first. We could talk about that. He said thank you instead of I love you. We could talk about that story.

Thank you.

Like the thank you email. Did you send her an email and tell her thank you?

Yes.

No.

I love you. And like you said, I'll come back to that story.

Let me keep everyone here to hear that. Thank you.

So for me, it was. It was a calmness I felt. Okay, so in relationships before, I was seeking the thrill and the chase.

Yeah.

And it was their validation. Right. And so it actually wasn't true love because it was wrapped up in my own insecurity and, oh, I'm just getting their validation. And so with him, I felt a piece. I felt I could truly be myself. I wasn't having. I used to have to contort myself to be like, oh, well, I really want his validation. So let me say I believe these things when I don't. Right. Again, my self esteem was really low. So with him I felt like I could actually be my full self. I could be my truth. I felt at peace. And I mean, that's really the thing. And then I, I just felt an alignment between us. Even though, again I to your point, like, we've grown so much together, our lives look our night and day, who we are, our character, but it was just a piece and it was like a knowing that we could grow together. And even though he didn't see it because he hadn't started self development yet.

And I didn't even know what that meant.

Yeah, career development, things like that.

And so we went on that growth journey together. I think that was the big thing too. He said yes to that. And relationships before, kind of had that pride thing of like, what do you mean grow? Like, this is who I am, take it or leave it. And so with him, he was open to that. Even though he didn't really know what it was, he was open. And that mindset to me was very, very important. Like, I couldn't do with the rigidity, the stubbornness and the inability to, to grow.

So.

Thank you.

Had you, had you been in any long term relationships before?

No, I think the longest was two, three months. But she had cheated on me anyway, so that was the longest already.

Right. So there was a lot of, a lot of like patterns and trauma with women coming into this relationship with meaning just meeting her. So it took a lot to even like reach out. And I know, I watch half other guys too. We were just talking about this on the show we did. So when a guy's been cheated on by a girlfriend or a wife, like the carnage in that guy's soul is intense. We have entire programs built just to help those guys because of the unique pain set that is. I can't, I can't run that program because, like we have other guys who run it that have gone through that. So you keep pushing forward into this experience with her. Talk about how you were able to let go of that narrative. Like just, hey, this is what I've experienced and I'm letting go because I watch guys drag shit their whole marriage. No matter what their wife's saying, they're constantly interpreting it through this other filter of all this past pain of I can't hear you what you're saying right now because all I can hear is you through my pain. How did you get to a place stepping into personal development obviously was a piece of it. But what were beginning stages for you? I mean, she's intense and very powerful. Like, this is a very intense Powerful woman you're married to.

Oh, yeah.

There's women who sit backseat. There's women who take the driver's seat. This is driver. This is fantastic. So you got pressure coming from her, but you've got to make decision for yourself. So how did you. How did you come to terms with you saying, you know what, I'm going to rip myself of this bullshit. I'm going to choose to be something different?

It's probably not just one answer. The first thing that came to mind was during this leadership program that she invited me to do. I was really able to see how limited I was by the end of it. It's a three day event. By the end of it, I was standing on a chair and in a room of 200 people. I just felt so liberated. Now the first day, they have microphones and you can go to the front and you can share what's coming up for you. And I really felt the sense that I wanted to do that. And so I was like, I raised my hand, you know, hoping they don't, they don't see you. I got called on, went up and I was. I've never spoken in front of a group before. I was so nervous, like almost blacked out. Like, I don't even know what I said. I was sweating so bad and I went and sat down. It's like my cognition came back.

Yeah.

I had to say to the person next to me, I don't even know what I said up there.

Yeah. But I.

Something in me loved it.

Yeah.

I like, I loved speaking. And so by the end of it, like I said, I was standing on a chair and it really brought out maybe this piece of me that would have never come out before. So there was a sense of developing in the person that I was. And yet here's a person that wants me to develop that. So such a support in that way. And so from there, I just think there's a level of humbleness that I don't really know what I'm doing. I don't have an ego, per se, about that much. I just wanted to be able to learn. The second piece I think is sort of special to my situation is I grew up in a Christian household. And even though not all Christian boys that grow up adhere to not having sex, for some reason, I took that on like the truth. I was scared of going to hell. If I had had sex before getting married, I thought I was going to go to hell. So then all my relationships were short and I got cheated on. So no opportunity there I'm literally living into a future in which the 40 year old virgin. Do you remember that movie?

Yes.

I swear to you, I thought that was made about me. I hated seeing that movie. And I didn't want to go to it because I'm like, that's the life I'm going to be living. And so now when there's someone that says, when I try to break up with them, that doesn't work for me. Let's do personal development. I see who you are. It's like, why would I not want to do this life with this person? Wow.

But you had the initial response to say, I, I'm out.

Well, so scared. You know, I didn't know it was such a subconscious feeling in the body. Just the shame I felt around. What was I. Well, by the time we were married, I was almost 30, so I hadn't had sex until I was 30 years old. A lot of shame around. More embarrassment, I think. And. But I think nowadays, and a friend of mine had mentioned this to me, there's probably something about her being my only partner that actually really has us bond and. And connect that I'm not dealing with a lot of the past.

Right.

Triumphs or. I mean, I've never been with anyone else, so.

Well, you probably something Guiding Light should know. You're guiding you to the promised land.

Yeah.

Yeah. And inside of like. Like being able to, like, have those experiences. Were you in the room when you had this experience at the event?

No, I had already done that program. So it was one that I like, highly recommended to him and was like, do this. And then he. He wanted to.

And he went just like, landmark. S training.

Landmark.

Whoa.

Landmark Forum.

You've done it.

Yeah, Whatever they are, I've done them. Yeah. I've tried everything to try to get free.

It's interesting how you're talking about, like, she pushes you to want to become this bigger person. Right. It's because I can tell you're probably similar to me where you're like, a little bit more reserved. That's not really who you are. So she's like exposing the person you actually are meant to become.

Yeah.

And that's like, same like what I feel like Garrett has, like, done for me over the years. It was like I used to be like, terrified of doing a podcast or speaking and all this. And it just took wrecks, you know? And then I'm like, okay, doing reps. This is. I can't say, oh, that's not me. I'm nervous. It's like more Natural for you, too. But that doesn't mean I can't acquire this skill, you know? But I love. And I always say to Garrett, I'm like. Even though I felt like it's. I'm like, I wouldn't have wanted any other way, you extracted the greatness out of me, and I think that that's what couples can really do. It's like I saw something in him. He saw something in me. So what did you. You saw something him. What did you see in her?

Maybe in the beginning, I think it was just that I actually felt I could be the I am a better version of myself because of her invitation, of her support, of her questions. So. And I mean, that's still really that way today. All of the big, like, ideas she has, right? It's like, it's not that I'm just agreeable and comply. We just put out a video, a couple, actually, yesterday, on compliance, but I don't comply. I think that's.

That's a. I watched that one.

Yeah.

It really hit home with. Oh, my gosh.

Makes sense. That makes sense.

I think you've always. You've acknowledged me many times for being bold, which. Oh, yeah, like, you were drawn to the energy.

So she's way more bold. Like, if anything goes wrong at a restaurant or anywhere, right? It's like, I will. I will always sit back. Like, I don't want to say things. You know, I don't like confrontation too much. And Jocelyn's like, punch him in the face. No.

Yeah, we're sending this steak back a.

Little more money, but do you like that part? Did you like that piece of it?

I like that because we're a couple. I can lean on that. I don't have that. You know what, though?

I want to acknowledge something, though, that is, I think, a little bit an old story, because you have become even more assertive the last couple years, which, funny enough, has almost created. Like, we've had to work through that. Not a power struggle, but we. You've become a lot more assertive in the last couple of years. And so I think that you. You're coming. Even times where I've been like, hey, Aaron, like, you're being even a little confrontational. Like, so I think that's a little bit of an old story. And if I can say, like, that's one thing I was also drawn to was that he accepted me for who I am, because, again, in past relationships, I had to dim myself because I am an assertive person. I have fire in me, and I Had to shrink that I even had my partner before him, which met the criteria superficially, right? Like the fit, smart, successful, funny. All those superficial criteria, which are also important too. But he didn't accept me for who I was. He. He constantly was kind of like, can't you be more, like, light hearted? And, you know, like. And like, you know, just not as it, you know, not as assertive and things like that. It's like, no, this is who I am. And I finally got to accept myself because you also helped accept me. So we helped each other become full selves.

It's interesting though, too, because I think there's, like, a balance, right? It's like, for me and Garrett, I want to, like, grow with him and I have to become more assertive. If I just sit and I'm a little wallflower, like, he's going to outgrow me. So at some point I have to be like, I need to be a little bit assertive or we're going to kind of like, grow apart, you know? But if I'm. I've been through seasons where I'm like, too assertive and then we're butting heads and I was like, I don't really want to be the dude. So, like, I need to dial back in my feminine. And when I realized that I'm like, okay. And then we actually complement. Compliment each other, like, really well. But there's always like, this dance inside of marriage of, like, kind of growing together and complimenting one another.

I think that there's even just, like, personality traits that are different too. Like, some people refer to it as masculine, feminine, which I think there's some truth to that. But a lot of our research has been around more like, personality types. And I think that every relationship that does well in creating harmony has one who's an initiator and one who's more of a responder. And that can be male or female. Right. And I grew up in a household where it was like, I had to learn to speak up and speak my voice. And I saw that model to an unhealthy degree. Right. I witnessed toxic conflict and an intense divorce. He didn't see conflict. And so we. We've had to learn to meet in the middle and really be able to balance each other's energies out and create that healthy communication. We had very different upbringings.

Is your mother more like your wife or is your father more like wife?

Neither.

Yeah. Really? Neither.

Really?

Yeah. Both been Christians for a long time. My mom is the Mother Teresa type, the helper. And Actually, I am. So the. What's. What are the seven.

Oh, the Enneagram.

Enneagrams.

Yeah.

So the Enneagram. So I'm a two. I'm a helper. And my mom is the top level of number two. She is the helper. She is the sacrifice herself over anyone at any time, especially her children. And doesn't say. I mean, not only is she not assertive, she would never say that she was upset about anything.

Wow.

Even when, you know, it's like, man, that really could have went better for my mom. And something I've been trying to work through is, you know, it's even tough to say. I think my mom has deserved so much more love from all the people in her life over all her years.

Yeah.

You know, her dad was, like, an alcoholic, and there was some various abuse. He gambled and, you know, growing back in that time, too. Right. It's. You're coming out of war and depression, and I. I recognize that generationally, there's something that that group had to come out of. Right. It's like we're coming out of terrible economic crises, and. But my mom is the most loving, giving person. And even for me, I'm almost overwhelmed by the amount of love. I mean, I was also born, like, six weeks early. I was four pounds. I had whooping cough. They didn't even know that I was going to live. And I was poked and prodded and hit with needles from the beginning of my life. And I know that affected me. So in terms of love languages, I don't even really like to be touched. And when I actually realized that it was how I came into this world was so traumatizing, it almost makes sense. But it's like, I want. I wish I could be someone that could show my mom all the physical touch and get in hugs and, like. But she had two boys. She has this father that's just loves being, you know, outspoken, but doesn't really ask questions, isn't very affectionate. I feel, you know, I feel sorry for my mom. It's like, I wish one of us was able to show you the love that you've shown all of us. And so it's really something I'm trying to work on. And, you know, I want to work on for our relationship is. I know there's more. And people talk about, like, love. Right. It's like we all love, I think, is a scary thing. I mean, to think about opening your entire self up to accept me for all my flaws. And I think. I think love at Its highest is a very scary, very vulnerable thing and it just, it calls you into something of the unknown.

How does that. Oh, sorry. How does it work with, you know, growing up and not like being touched or prodded or what? Like how does that affect you guys in your relationship now? You know, I grew up in a, in a home where it was like, you don't talk about your feelings, you don't share your feelings, you don't hug, you don't say I love you, you don't, you don't, you don't touch. Like it's just, I didn't even know that that was a normal thing. So then I meet him and his family is very affectionate. In fact, like the first night day I met his family, I missed giving his sister a hug and he's like, Danielle hates me. And I was like, I didn't know I missed a hug. Like they do like a hug line to a credit.

There were like 36 people, you gotta.

Hug the cousins, hugs like you're in the hug line. It's a solid 15 minute goodbye. So I was like, I didn't even know that, that I wasn't like touchy feely and I didn't realize I was hurting him and not being like that, being raised in such a family. And I was like, I love you, you should know I love you. Like. And so for me I had to make a conscious effort to touch him, to talk to him, to hug him, to hold his hand, like all the little things. And it wasn't natural for me but I had to create new patterns and now I love it. I'll be like, if we're walking, he's not holding my hand. I'm like, why are you not holding my hand? You know? And I still make a conscious effort of like the little hugging and like in the morning I come up and like grab him and things like that. But if you had to work on that inside of your relationship being like how you were born, like, and has it affected your guys relationship?

I think thankfully because of the personal development we did, it started us on a path of this awareness where it's like we don't always have it together. Everything's always perfect. It's like, where are we now and where we want to go and then how do we close the gap? And I think we have had that mentality. So to your point, I realized this isn't going to go that well if physical, physical affection, even like non sexual isn't a part of our relationship. And right now it's like, you touch me, and my body has, like, a clock that starts to run down, right? So early on, if she put her arm around me, you count in your head. It's like my mind's like, okay, 1, 2, 3.

Like, waiting for her to move her hand away.

Yeah, yeah. Start to be like, yeah.

That was Danielle. I would lay in bed with her, and she would be like, is he asleep? And I would come over, I would put my hand, like, on her leg. She's like, oh, my God, I can't even breathe. I was like, sin. When were your lungs placed in your quads? Lungs in your chest? I'm not even even on your chest. I'm on your. Like, what's wrong with you? She was the exact same way. It was like. It was super hard for me. I remember sitting in a conversation with a father in Hawaii. It was like, after I'd lost everything in banking and we had nothing, we built financial empire, lost everything. And then I'm. I'm just broken. I don't know how to deal with her. She's not deal with me. We have no ability to communicate whatsoever. And I'm dying. She's dying. We're both dying. I'm sitting with her dad, and I'm like, sharing my pain about his daughter. I'm like, help me. And he's like, starts. Pulls over salary. He's like, construction hand guy. Like, just manly dude, just big and just all big. And he pulls over the side of the road, and he started. He starts crying. I'd never seen him cry before. And he was crying and crying. He looks over at me, he's like, I'm sorry. Like, I did this.

Oh, wow.

And he said I love you to his mother a week before she died. And that was the first time in his whole life. So he was. He had raised all their children and his wife. He said he'd even trained his wife to be like. Because she was very affectionate, very kissy, very lovey. And he would reject it for the first 10 years. And so she finally shut off, and she's actually become the opposite, which is incredibly critical to the point. Like, it makes me want to puke at myself at times. I love her to pieces, but just.

How critical she is like, the most giving person. But then, like, to my dad, you're like, that's your husband. Like, it's hard to be around them sometimes. I love them both.

Yeah. So you started. You got the countdown. Does the countdown clock happen now? Sometimes we hadn't actually talked.

Sometimes I don't sense it though.

I think one thing and then I just. I'm able to talk myself through it more now. Right. Rather, you know, it's like, that's silly. Why. Why is that there? Yeah, and it's more so. So to your point, it was just that I. It's almost like exposure therapy. Right. It's like I just knew that this was something I had to work on.

Exposure therapy.

Yeah.

So, you know, it's just consciously work done. And then what I noticed first was it was a big difference if I initiated it. So I could easily start to initiate. I could hold her for days, I could grab her hand. I could be as affectionate as. As I wanted to be. So I kind of took the lead more so in that area for myself as well. And then that just started, I think a bigger change in me. So now when she's affectionate with me, sometimes even have to ask like, hey, how about. How about you bring a little bit over this way?

I. I think part of it is. It's not one of my top love languages either, actually. So I think it would be interesting if he was with a partner where it was like their top. That would be probably a little bit of like, hey, I need more of this. For me, it's. I wouldn't even. Maybe it's my third. Like, the top love languages for me are like quality time. And really there should be an additional one around. Like conversation. Like, conversation is very connecting for me, especially like meaningful conversations. And so I think that's part of what works is that it's not one of my top ones. But we.

Yeah.

What is quality time?

I've never heard a woman not. Not have quality time be one of her job. I know.

So let's talk about this because we're talking about Enigma here. This conversation. I need some quality time. I'm like, what is this?

So men are confused about what that means.

Yeah, of course. Because women are confused their about it because they change the definitions. Like, guys, like, I got four crayons in my box. They're big and fat. Just pick any one of them. Draw on me. Yeah, girls are. I got 734 crayons. They're all different colors. And depending on the day and the time I change the color, I can't pick the same crayon.

That's the perfect description of men versus women.

Yes. Four fat crayons. A whole box of a thousand crayons.

Like you picked the wrong.

Yeah, like we're easy. Use any of them and draw on me.

I think every woman is obviously different because her interests are different. Right. And so I think it is about knowing like your person and what are they interested in, what brings them the joy out of them. I think that's something we see with couples. And even we have a recent challenge that we have couples doing a 30 day challenge. And it's about like sparking joy. You know, we get so caught up in adulting.

Yeah.

And so, you know, you've got the responsibilities and of course that's part of life. But remembering to laugh together, to do things that bring out your childlike so spirit and are adventurous. So for me, like travel together is quality time. And being off our phones, like that's a step. One is whatever you're doing together, be off your phone. That's a huge step in the right direction. Oh, we're getting some.

I just had a nervous twitch there.

Okay, sorry.

Do we need to work out?

Communicate. Let's communicate.

Well, quality, you can't. You're not going to have quality time if you don't have the attention. So first of all, it requires attention. So I think a lot of people, they collapse physical proximity.

Right.

With quality time, it's like, yeah, you could be sitting on the couch, but if you're both on your phones, there's not going to be quality because you don't have the attention first and foremost.

And I like both.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, physical proximity is, is really a must. There's a lot of data for that too. But physical proximity and attention is different. Yeah.

Well, listen, we've gotten to the surveys in the man world. Thousands and thousands of men. And we said, how many of you in the room would like to be stroked like your wife strokes Instagram?

Oh, yeah.

How many of you'd like to have as much time as Instagram gets with her fingers?

Raise your hand.

100. How many of you want to crash your phone? Raise your hands. So, like, this new game with social media, though, has created a problem.

I would say that women feel the same about men. Right. I don't even think it's just because I hear so I think it's all people being conscientious of devices. And so I think it's making sure where's your attention? I think it's also, if you think about the early days of dating, you're experiencing things together. Right. You're. You are.

It'd be rude if you're on your phone, you're on your first date, like, hold on, I'm just scrolling through TikTok really quick.

But you're being intentional about what you do. You know, you're not going to the same restaurant every time. You're not only cooking dinner at home and, you know, eating there. You're doing things you're experiencing. So even now when we travel, it's like, this is a moment. This is quality time for me. And then even with our daughter, just moments where we're laughing and we're. I mean, just the. Even the simple things. But it's quality because we're present. It's quality because we're both being intentional and we're asking good questions. I think that's a big key that women pick up on, is the engagement, the conversation. That's one of the top things I'll hear from women is like, you're not engaged. You're not asking, like, deeper questions more than just like, how's work lately? How's the business? You know, deeper questions to show that interest. That's a word women use a lot, is the communication and the engagement.

Hey, I hope you're enjoying the show. This quite interrupt here from whatever it was we were talking about. Probably my wife's ass on the Internet or some other thing like my balls on the Internet. Something in that genre. Listen, inappropriate as it is, what I can tell you is that Living the Warriors Way is the backbone to everything we've built. It is the foundational operating system for a man and. Or a woman to learn how to have it all every single day. It is the pursuit of freedom in a very systematic and gamified approach. We've been doing it now for 12 years. We've guided tens of thousands of men and women to figure it out themselves too. For free trial today, go check it out@warriorlaunch.com.

Small details though, too, though. Like, he'll say stuff like something like, yesterday, you're like, hey, thanks for doing the dishes. I'm like, thank you for noticing that I did the dishes. Like, I don't care. But thank you for noticing.

You care?

No, because he used to send me like, this checklist of appreciation and be like, why don't you like it? And I was like, it's not that I don't like it. It just seemed like I woke up and so I want to give you a checklist of, like, things I like about you. And I was like, ah. But I like the little moments where I'm like, you noticed that I did that? Like, it makes me feel validated. So I'm like, huh?

Okay, you ready? We're going off cliff.

Okay.

We started with email. Now it's time to get serious.

Okay.

Okay.

So you two both are very powerful women. Very powerful women also have a challenge in relationships, which we have noticed over time with their men, because part of the dynamic in relationship is submission and surrender and also being strong. So we have tons of guys who are married to very powerful women, alpha women, very intense women, stoic women. But they're solid women. And these women are used to being very solid and in charge all the time. And they're with men who are trying to figure out how to play this game. Because the part, at least in our experience, these women want to summit in certain roles, put the swords down, put the shields down and be different. And there were guys who have been with women who are typical drivers or very committed in their way. And so they struggle trying to find that dynamic. So you and I are different. We're the same, but we're different. So, like my approach to this is I get more aggressive, which that causes wars. And then we've got other guys that just get quiet and just don't do shit. So what have you seen for you two in this? Being that you're powerful. Being that you're powerful. Also different power. But she's a driver as a female, which creates a lot of confusion for guys. In a world where we know at some level you want to submit and let go of all this intensity and just surrender into your feminine, do your thing. And at the same time, the guys are trying to find a way in to do that while dealing with that intensity.

Can I, can I jump in? Because I like this question.

This is a great answer.

And I would use different language. Go for it. But I also, I love this question too. And here's the thing. I wouldn't characterize myself as intense. And I don't take that, like, personally. I just, I think there's like power in language. I'm assertive.

Sure.

I'm authentic.

Yes.

I speak my mind and my truth. And a lot of men can't take that.

Sure.

And I see that men, and this is there. I'm not big on like, generalizations. All men, all women. Right. Because there's different personality types of strengths. But I do notice that if there is that resistance to a woman who like speaks her mind, who's assertive, they have a chink in their armor, there's lower self esteem or they, how they were parented, they didn't get the positive feedback from their dad, or they got a lot of criticism from their mom or Vice versa. And so now they hear their partner who's being assertive or holding them accountable because that's another man. One of the biggest things that turns women off is lack of follow through, the loss of integrity. And then so I think men can sometimes have this false front of where it's not true power, it's compensating for either low self esteem, lack of integrity. Right. So I think with Aaron, he is so freaking powerful and so like, to me, he is the ultimate masculine for me, because he's steady. 100%. Follows through 100. His word hold space for me. Like, I feel so passionate to like almost not defend. Not and not even you like. But the men who aren't coming out with this like, I'm macho, I'm man. Because he is so steady.

Yeah.

I. A hundred, like, even friends of ours who've gotten divorced recently are like, you're salt. Like, you're just such a solid man. And so I know I went on a rampage there. But I think that Aaron doesn't have to fight it because he's so solid. And he. If I'm getting fiery, he's like, hey, like, I'm holding the ground and he will bring me back to earth sometimes if I'm kind of getting to, I don't know, something emotional, fiery.

So anyway, isn't God's dynamic perfect? We kill each other.

Really?

Okay.

Oh, for sure.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay.

That was my ex wife. And what I mean by that is that your energy and my energy were the same energy. Look who we married.

Yeah, yeah. We need that balance.

But that's the crazy part about it, right? Because she's immovable and has been while I'm so fierce. You and I are together. We're at war half the time. Because I don't back down, you don't back down. Which means it's. And that's the challenge. A lot of relationship having too, is that guys are rising in power or vice versa. Women are rising and finding this new voice. And we're seeing these collisions occur at this authenticity, I'll call it intensity, authentic intensity. They're meeting and they're not sure how to work the puzzle because you either have somebody who's always spoken, who's trying to be quiet, or somebody who's never spoken up and now they're trying to speak up. We see this happen with the women too, in our hair industry, where they've been kind of backseat to their husbands and they've made 60, 70,000 a year in income and they're married to a good old boy from the Midwest who makes 95 to 100,000 and she works six days a week. They come train with us. This girl now makes $400,000 a year and she buys red bottoms. And this guy doesn't know what to do with it because her power rises. Her authentic intensity rises. And he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Do his part too.

Whoa.

For sure.

But this is the collision point for sure. The guys have to grow so as she's balanced. And that's why you are the perfect balance. Because the calming force is a power. I had to learn that power. Just like you're learning to do more than the email punch people in the throat. And it's bold. It's like, no, no, you're taking. This is my girl. Stop it. Take the steak back. Don't treat my wife this way as I'm not going to tolerate that. On the flip side, I've had to go.

Take it right here.

Yeah.

Which was super weird for me. I wanted to be on the chair and yell at people, but to sit in the back and not say anything, incredibly difficult.

Yeah. So that balance is really. That harmony is really key. Anything you would add to my answer?

I think everything you said is right. It depends. Am I trying to be with communication that I feel is fiery or am I trying to speak my voice right? Because that is different for sure. And yeah, I think integrity is the biggest piece my personality traits. One of them is called conscientiousness. Right. The big five personality. I just happen to be really high on that. Also my agreeableness is really high. So I think a lot of it does depend on where men fall in this personality trait. I just think for a partner, I happen to fall in this trait realm. That's like really good to be a partner.

Yeah. We balance out.

But I think too, you probably feel like you can be yourself. You are fiery, spicy, whatever. Yeah, yeah. But like you can be yourself. Whereas you. If you were somebody else and they're trying to be quiet, like, stop doing what you're in. You're like, this is me. You know, this is a. And it's not. It's a powerful person version of you.

Yeah.

You're like, why would I have to hold back when I'm really just trying to impact and grow myself?

And I think that's like just for the listeners to that piece and your relationship. Because there's a. There's so many different blends of different partners, personalities, all these things. It's. Have you Forgotten to accept each other.

Yeah.

For who you are. Right. So Aaron does a brilliant explanation so you can do it better than me. But he talks about how there's using the skills. Right. So are you gaining communication skills, conflict skills, all the things.

Give them an acronym first.

Right.

You do the acronym. All right.

We came up with psa, like public service announcement. And the A is for acceptance. Right. I'm starting at the end because I think couples are getting to this point where when you have that tension, when one is maybe rising, one is growing, you're having that voice. Then it seems to be this conversation. Well, you haven't accepted me for who I really am for years, and now you're not accepting me for who I am now. But I think before you get to the acceptance piece, you have to go back to the P and the S. And the first one is you have to recognize the perception that you're inside of. And if I'm living inside of a limited perception, you know, from landmark. Right. You have this filter going on. And if I feel over the years, because of my lack of assertiveness, that I feel that my partner is controlling and they're interested in telling me what to do with my life, well, that's going to have me respond in a certain way. And all of a sudden, one day I'm not going to take it anymore because I'm a man. And now I'm going to come with this fire for all these years that I haven't been being assertive or sharing what I need. And now I'm saying, accept me. It's like, well, wait a second. Let's. Let's go back to where the perception. Here you're coming from the perception that your partner has been controlling you for years. And until you wind that perception back a little bit that you need to be responsible for that first. Right. So the perception. And I know you got something right there.

I can see it nod what's your nail is exactly what happens.

The S is then skill. So once you roll back the perception and then you can also reframe it to, like, what's going to be the one that's going to serve you in the relationship. Then there's also probably going to be some awareness that you're lacking some skills, communication or conflict resolution. So grab those together. Now with that. Now you're the person that you want to be. Now you can come to the table with, hey, this is the new version of myself. This is a new version of you. Now we can accept. Now we're at the acceptance. But until you've really talked about the perception and the skills, you can't just come out screaming, accept me. When you're like, that's a very reactator. Yeah, reactive place. And you know, we know where it's coming from because you feel it's been suppressed for years. Like, hey, we get that. But let's like, let's work through a couple other things.

So come back to perception because what you just nailed is exact. You know, your framework on is perfect. It's exactly what happens. And it happens on both sides. Like, women will be feel like they've been suppressed forever in their truth. Like, I was so dominating in my energy that she didn't feel like she had a voice. And if she did, I'd react. So then I would talk so quickly and I could reframe so fast that she always felt like she was in the corner. So she just stopped talking. Now that stopped about four years ago, five years ago, where she got a voice in Adelaide, boys. She's like, hey, listen, I need you to understand some truth for me right now.

I'm a lion.

Yeah, here's the deal. I haven't been able to feel you for a year. I. You don't see me. I'm having thoughts of having sex with other men. I'm too good to cheat on you. And if this doesn't change, I'm gone. And of course me, I'm like, what the fuck? I'm. Wake up, warrior. How the hell did this happen?

You feel like it came out of nowhere, right?

Oh, completely. Because again, I was so reactive. And at the same time, she. She didn't know how to communicate through my reactivity. I didn't know how to hear through anything about my reactivity to her. I always wanted her to talk, but I didn't know how to listen to her when she would talk. So when she would finally mount it up, she didn't come at me with like, anger. We had a bunch of that. But that was like the preceding moments. It was when she gave me calm. Hey, here's how it is. And then for three months I'm like. And I'm very open with all my guys. So like tens of thousands of guys are listening us go through our. That's why people see us now feel that way anymore.

Yeah, I don't want. I don't accept this.

Yeah.

And I was like, it could be scary to share with somebody who I have four kids with, but I have to like, my soul feels like it's dying and we're eventually just going to part ways anyway.

And you know what one of our favorite phrases is? And I'll have you continue the story, but you don't have to end the marriage to end this version of the marriage. And that's what you got to do. And we've had one of those moments as well. And I want couples to hear that if you're at a point of like friction, frustration or a lot of even pain in the relationship, you can have those moments of we are drawing a line in the sand here and let's have the hard conversations, let's talk about it and of course do it in a constructive way, but let's be real. And you know what? We get to start a whole new chapter together.

Yeah, we do have. We came up with this guide and a process. It's called the Steps to rebuild a Marriage. And I think what you're saying is so powerful. It's not just that you come together and say like we're drawing a line in the sand. You do first start with, I'm drawing a line in the sand for myself. I'm not going to live this way. And. But there's a way to come to it, which I feel like you did. And it was, these are my non negotiables. I really would like to create this future with you. And you know what? But it's not going to keep going this way. And I want to be on board with you. And I'm just laying out, here are my non negotiables. But if you keep reminding the positive intent that like I'm in this with you, we got married, the commitment is there, but it doesn't mean that we stay the same people. So here are my non negotiables. And you know what? I recognize there's probably some things that are there for you. So we, we had this three, four hour conversation, maybe it was seven years ago now. And I at least had to say, look, thank you for hearing my non negotiables. And you probably have some too. I'm willing to hear them and I'm also willing to make those changes for you. Right. Like that's really, that's where you know, you're starting to move this together.

Yeah.

So YouTube are moving and growing and this is an interesting dynamic because people come to me now and there's a massive amount of open relationships opening up. A lot of people trying to find a path. They love each other, they're connected to each other, but they've just are in so much pain they can't connect people like assets. Are you guys open? We're like, no, it's not. We choose that at all. And yet at the same time they're struggling to try to find this way. And I was looking at like I had one guy said, he's like, listen, monogamous relationships are impossible. He's like, if you go back and look, even the Old Testament is impossible. Dudes all have like 300 women. I've talked with women, single women in their 40s, powerful women, beautiful women, Latinos, blacks, whites, Asian. Doesn't seem to matter. Color doesn't even seem out of race. Is the or nation, nationality. A lot of women are starting to say, listen, I, I've kind of succumbed the fact that I'm probably going to be a sister wife because I can't seem to find any guys out here at all that are cool enough because I'm not going to reduce my standards. So I'd rather be with a dude who's a high value guy than. And be with these fuck boys. I'm tired of it. I just can't do it anymore. So the shift though is, and as we continue this conversation with these guys and these gals together, this frame of growth, it's incredibly crazy because if she's growing as a woman, I'm growing as a man, you're growing as a woman, you're growing as a man and we're saying you're mine, I'm yours, but she's growing. That means that this non negotiable game is shifting all the time. Because where you're at today is going to be different than where you're at a year from now. So how have you two navigated the evolution of this growth cycle to where you're growing, she's growing and you're like, wow, I see a different world now. We got to come back together with.

This from a practical sense because I know we've been really throwing out a lot of like philosophy, ideas, theories from a practical communication sense, having some frequency of a check in. So I, we, we have a weekly, a quarterly and a yearly. And there's different purposes for each one. So weekly is much more of like the, the day to day we want to make sure.

Where's your level count at? How could I fill that up?

What are our priorities this week?

Like what do we appreciate about each other?

The quick course corrections week to week.

Right?

We're in the trenches in life.

Like, listen, how long is this meeting?

Those can be 15 minutes. If that's all couples have we've got five questions in a whole guide that couples can work through. So it's a way to course correct quickly because what we find with couples in our sessions. So everyone's busy, right? What is everyone's, how are you? We're busy. Everyone is okay. That can't be the excuse to not communicate. And so, yes, you've got kids, you've got work, you've got all the things, but you need to huddle together and have a quick check in can be 15 minutes, some of them are going to be an hour because you've got a little bit more to work through. But anyway, that's the week to week course correction. Quarterly is a more in depth relationship review. So there's a list of the different areas of the relationship, including intimacy, including communication. And you say, do I feel this is a strength in our relationship or growth? So you get to be honest with each other and proactive. Let's not wait till we feel distant two years from now. We haven't talked about it. Hey, it's only been 1/4.

And say your partner rates intimacy at a 6 and they rate communication at a 5. I mean, that's better to know now until you're at a place that you were when you were at like ones and twos, you don't want to be there. You don't need to be. Right. So you can have these quarterly conversations where maybe your satisfaction in these particular areas drops to a five, six, you know, something like that. It's like, okay, well what, what change do we need to make? It's. It's easier, right? Then when you're at a zero. And now you're talking about. Yeah, are we ending this now? We're at the non negotiable piece.

It's just.

Yeah, it's a lot more difficult.

You can't get too far off course.

Exactly.

You gotta go up like six levels instead of like two.

Right, Exactly.

Is this quarterly thing like a weekend?

It can be if couples are able to do that, which some are able to do that, some aren't. It can even just be, hey, wake up before the kids do and have coffee together and do this check in, but put it in the calendar. And so that's quarterly. Then yearly is much more of like a big picture. What are our top values this year? Some people can set their visions, their goals and things like that. But so it's more of, you know, what do we want for this next year? And what do we want to remove from our life that might be distractions? Which is a big piece because it's not just about setting more goals as a couple. It's like, hey, do we need to actually course correct that we've been on our phones too much and, and things like that. So all that to bring back a practical tool is to have these check ins, put them in your calendar and make sure you're communicating before you do get too far off track.

It's just such a good reminder too because as you were telling me beforehand, what, five months ago, you guys are in California and you're at, you're at this restaurant and all of a sudden it's like something radically changes for you to move your whole family and everyone out to the other side of the country. That's a value based conversation, that's a vision for the future that you obviously both need to be on. You're not going to do that every year, right. You're not going to move. So you don't need to have those conversations as often. But for your marriage to really be on the course that you want it to be, that God's calling you, the two of you to be on, you need to check in on those on yearly, if not, you know, a few years. But they're not going to happen all the time. And you make the bigger lifestyle choice changes. But as far as your interactions, your communications, Right. You can do those on these smaller time frames.

Yeah.

And to us, like, that's just how you keep the positive evolution going.

And here's the thing. So we talked a little bit ago about like defensiveness, even though we didn't all label it as defensiveness or the reactions, if you are sitting down to be like, hey, let's have our weekly check in. Right. You're not gonna then I hope go into that and just not take any feedback that your partner gives. Would you do that in a team meeting? No. So that same mindset of you being open to your peers, feedback to your boss's, feedback to your co founder, whoever that is, you need to have that same openness to your partner. And so the questions that we have couples do in our check in are very much more like, how can we be an even better team? And I'm going to be open to what you say. I don't have to defend myself. I think that's a big thing. He and I feel. Do we get defensive from time to time? Of course we're all human, but our mindset is this is my partner who's on my side, who's on my team and they're just thankfully opening up to me and being as opposed to holding it in. And I always call it in our content. Little seeds in marriage become big weeds when you don't talk about it. So if you have that frequent check in, you're open to each other. You're not going to take, you know, things personally. And you're also not nitpicking. This isn't about, like, like, bringing up little things that don't matter. It's really like, this is our chance to just really be on the same page, proactively communicate.

Also, it's just an intentional conversation. So you're not tapping your shoulder, your partner on the shoulder while they're trying to finish a call. Right. Or.

Or at midnight.

It's not at midnight. It's not when you're going to sleep.

Like, session, is it? Because that's like, him and I, well, feel like we'll sit down. We're like, let's have a check in. And a check in almost comes across of like, oh, our kids are being crazy and this and this. And then it becomes like a problem solving, and it becomes like a trigger. Like, like we're triggered by each other's words. And I'm like, that check in just turned into a fight.

Yeah.

So here. All right, here's a pro tip. Okay, so question number one. This is in our guide. And so you guys should start with. This is, where's your love account at from a scale of 0 to 10? Here's why. Because that little. When you talk about, like, we're now, like, nitpicking or like, we're taking each other's tone personally, maybe your love account is low. So you're trying to communicate without really being, like, in sync and talking about connection first. Because when you do approach the next questions, which can be logistical or talk about parenting and things like that, you want to be doing that from feeling, like, in sync and harmony. Connection. So if you talk first about your love and connection and you were receptive to each other. Okay, totally hear you. You're a 7 out of 10. And here are the things I can do better for you this week. I'm on board. Bae. Now you'll be more open to the next topics that you guys do.

You have sex before these meetings?

I think it's a variety of things. They happen.

Sometimes it ends up being, like, during. Yeah, you like to connect.

This meeting is adjourned. Let's go. I was imagining because, like, you think. I think from the. From the frame of most guys that I have Run with. They feel very open to these conversations when they feel like their love is filled.

Exactly.

And their love is filled typically through physical connection, through sex. And then you have the other side, which has been the challenge between us over the years has been me learning how to fill up her love tank. And then put the agenda of it is not get laid. The agenda is I want to fill your love tank. To fill your love things. I think that took me like over 23 years. I'd be like, I wash the dishes.

I'm like, yeah, I hope you notice. Did you see how I did that?

Yeah.

It's not transactional.

Well, it was very transactional. I was like, did you see why? Like, did you see this house? Look how clean it is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That is a turn off for women.

Just so you know. I found that out. I found that out.

Men, listen.

Testing. Yeah. That was not. That didn't work. So there's an agenda game in it that is about filling it. We play the different. With going on dates twice a week. We're real extreme with stuff on the zoo. These checkups are going to help. We're going dates twice a week. We started doing overnight once a month. And then we start going a four week long exotic vacations. I get. We're spending a bunch of money that we're at a stage in life we could financially do that. But they was accomplishing the same thing for us which was getting her unplugged from the kids. You'll find this. Yeah. A mom mode with five kids is intense.

Well, and it's like people think of like mom mode is like slight and feminine. I'm like, oh no. I'm like in a war zone. Hat on.

Yeah.

I'm like, so meeting with the kids all day is no different than him being at work all day. We were just fighting different wars.

And can I say too that that parenting dynamic because I'm sure a lot of your listeners, if not the majority are parents. Connection is going to look different in all different seasons. And I think a lot of people just try to anchor to like know how it was in the early days. Right. Or right before we had kids. And it's like, okay, we have young children. Some people have a lot of support. Some people we talk to some couples, they have no family near them, haven't found the babysitters or nannies they trust. And so you can't only use date night for some couples as the only time you're going to connect. So you, you've got to think outside the box and say, okay, you know what? Maybe we've got a newborn. And you know what? We're not ready to leave our daughter, for example. All right, we can't do a night away. How can we connect? Let's wake up early. Let's have coffee. It's about the intentionality. It's making time for each other. We talked about not being on devices. And so I just wanted to say that to everyone of, like, really think about the season you're in and really think, like, what can connection look like now? Because here's another big bad thing to do in a marriage is say we'll get close again once our kids have moved out.

Oh, yeah, that's the problem.

Which is a big mindset I hear from men, to be honest. Right. I don't think women have. Women are much more of the. We need to stay close. Right. Like, they're much more of focused on relationships, and so they'll be like, let me. I'm trying to reel you in. Right. Whereas men will have that mentality of like, look, we're busy right now. Okay? We'll. We'll get that time together again when the kids have moved out. And it's like, if you have that mentality, you may feel so far apart from each other then. So what can connection look like now in this season that we're in? It has to be a priority.

Yeah. Think about even, like, really big, like, businessmen, where they're like, we got to focus on the mission. And it's like, that's important. But don't be so focused on the mission that you lose it all.

And the. And the why you. What do you say? You do it all for family. I challenge men all the time. We have a workshop coming up. We do in person, and there's a value section. And almost every man puts family. Women, too. It's a top thing that people write. And then I'll be like, okay, like. But would your attitude and your actions at home really show you're doing it for family? I see you working hard. I know that no one doubts that people aren't working hard. I work hard. You work hard. We all work hard. Everyone is this. Don't lose sight of why. And your why is your family. And your family isn't just about being in the same space. It's also being with each other, being connected, being close, having good conversations, feeling the love.

It's just a good point to say that what you value isn't just what you say, because that might not line up your value. We. We can see everyone's value by how you act.

Yeah.

So your value is what you act out. It's not just what you say. Now, ideally, you're the type of person in which what you say and what you do and what you act out is the same. That's not the case for everyone. Right. And so I think just when it comes down to being honest about what you value. Right. You're going to see that through your actions, but you can communicate that. And sometimes you're going to go through seasons where, like, so our biggest moment was we thought we were going to lose everything. And that was right when sky was born, our daughter. We had our rock bottom, and I had to go manage construction, management and make sure this property didn't fail so that we didn't. We had everything in it. And so, so long as I'm communicating, like, we recognize the season that we're in, and we're either going to be on the street with our daughter if I don't do this. So I'm not going to be able to be as available. I'm not going to have the capacity when I come home. If. When I come home and you make dinner, I'm a little short with you, and I'm, like, pissed off about something that happened. I'm gonna need some more grace. And, yeah, my goal is that if I can focus, like, I'm not gonna disrespect you. I'm gonna maintain a standard. You can remind me if I go beyond an agreement, but give me, like, three months. I think three months of this, and I'll get us out of it. Right? So I think if you set that and then you come back to your value conversation, even if it is in three months and you're reviewing, like, are we out of the woods? Right. Can we refocus towards what our value is now, or do we need to keep going? Right. And so you can't just keep kicking the can down the road forever. Like, oh, I need to keep focusing on my business now. You're, like, 10 years down the road.

Yep.

It's interesting, too, that you just said, like, there's, like, seasons of hustle.

Right.

And even with Garrett, like, he pushes so hard. And as the wife, the. One of the hard things that I have a problem with is I'm like, don't burden him. Like, he's in a season. And so then I find myself withdrawing. And I'm not trying to. I'm just almost trying to respect his space and, like, be like, what do you Need. What do you need? But I'm not like. I'm almost like, don't burden him. And so I have to remind myself, like, hey, even in this season, I can allow more grace, but I have to continue to communicate and find these little moments because I have experienced it in the past where I'm like, he's going to go out and hunt. And I just got to be grateful. A lot of women do that. And so I always say, like, hey, like, we understand the men are doing this for their families. Families. But at some level, I feel like it's my responsibility to kind of keep that connection here. I feel like a lot of women with producing men, they. They forget to do that. Like I said, I experienced that myself in the past. And then I'm like, well, I feel disconnected because I didn't put forth the effort of communicating and making these little moments count.

And remember that phrase, like, you and everyone listening. Like, the seed will become a weed. So you have to check in with yourself. Is this important to me? Sure. My partner is really busy, but is this thing I'm holding in because I don't want to either start a fight or I don't want to burden them, or they're really busy. Is it changing the way I see them? Because if it's changing the way I see them, I've got to talk about it.

If it changes the way that you see them, it's going to change how you feel about them. And if it changes how you feel about them, it's going to change how you act around them.

Yeah. So remember, like, you got to talk about it when it's seed before it becomes a weed.

That's so interesting that you say it affects how you see them because there are times, like, can tell, like, we're connected because I'm like, you're hot.

Yeah.

Oh, for sure is how you seem. And then he comes to the room, like, God, take a shower.

Yeah, yeah.

And he doesn't look any different. Like, where is our connection level out of that moment. And then I'll be like, okay, we gotta, like, plan more dates or not dates or just time together so we can get back to, like, that reconnection where when he walks in the room, I'm like, oh, yeah, he's mine.

So you guys just had a baby three years ago.

Yeah. One day apart from your youngest.

I know. They're like, well, December babies. So we have watched a couple. What? I want to back on this, but 70% of divorce is. 60% divorce are filed by women. In their 40s. Interesting.

Yeah. Well, and also peak marriage satisfaction is at year 10, which is often when people have young children.

Yep. Which is our next topic.

Yeah.

So you also see, we've seen, we've got data points on over 65,000 guys. It's a lot just focus on men, what their perspective experiences. Mostly affairs and disconnection and chaos is created after the birth of the first child because this guy's going through a place, he's got his woman, they're connected, they're bonding. It's great. It's wonderful. And then baby time. So what have you guys done to make sure that sexual intimacy has stated priority in something in the marriage? Because what ends up occurring is that there's a distancing woman has been dealing with her baby. Guys like, hey, cool. So I was patient for nine months. I have to jog on to write a book called what to Expect When Expecting Penis Addition for dudes that are about to have their first baby. Because there's all their shit for women. Here's what you're gonna expect. And like, dude, get ready for the desert. Your woman has been stolen from you, from this little thing you love. So that's when it begins. Then they stack another kid, stack another kid. 10 years have passed. It's complete chaos. This is where a lot of guys end up in my world. Like even the events I was at this last weekend speaking, you can see the pain in their eyes, see the pain in the woman's eyes. They're just trying to reconnect in this connection I used to have prior to the kids. And kids are now in the mix and it's then they're toddlers and teenagers and all the things you're going to get to go through with this beautiful daughter yours that we've run the gamut on with. 25, 17, 13, 5 and 3.

Yeah, yeah.

So how have you guys, what have you done consciously to create a reconnection intimately and sexually with each other post pregnancy that's allowed you to stay in communication because it's where we notice where everybody starts to isolate. Guys will shut down and they'll go to work, focus on the kids and pretend they're not hurting, go to porn, masturbate multiple times a week, feel horrible about being in the porn, starting to distort their minds and how they're seeing the world. They can't see their wife the same anymore. She becomes more disgusting to them. He now says, starts to look outside of him. He gets attention at the gym. Some girl asks him for his email.

Yeah. Watch out.

Watch out for that killer email.

It's a good pickup line, everybody.

What did you ask for? Instagram? No, your email. Let's go. So what have you guys been able to do? I mean, the fun part is you get to focus. I focus on men. So, like, I have deep reservoir of knowledge there. You two are focusing on couples. We don't pretend like we're a couple's expert at all. So what have you guys seen? You get the extra pressure of all these people following you, which is a benefit because it forces you to figure.

Out and be accountable.

Exactly.

Or you to unravel in front of everyone but get divorced and are like, we knew it happens to a lot of couples.

Yeah.

In the couple position.

I got a quick thing to. And then I want to definitely hear from you. So going back to the mindset, the perspective, again, like, our mindset is that this is a lifelong journey. We do not expect every season to be the same. And I think that's a place, honestly, that people get trapped. And I will hear in their language, because what they'll say is, I want to go back to how it was. Yeah, you're not in that season anymore. You're not in the honeymoon phase anymore, or you're not 22 anymore, or you're not 35 anymore. You've got kids, you've got teens, you've got your empty nesters. You're older. Be in the season that you're in and stop trying to go back. So, again, our mindset is we're in this for life. Do you know what? We're okay with the peaks and valleys. We're not going to let them belong, though. So we talk to couples all the time. You're gonna get off track. Do not think that marriage is just, oh, yeah, we're always trucking along and we're always good. That's a fantasy, and that's gonna set you up for disappointment. Expect to get off track a little bit, but be looking for when you got off track and catch it a week in, catch it a month in instead of years in. And so we have that mindset. So even when we had our newborn and we were obviously, I was exhausted. You're very exhausted as well.

You had to heal, too.

I was struggling with healing. And then we went. We got into this multifamily deal that we shouldn't have partnered with the person we were in. He sabotaged the deal. We truly almost lost everything. So we have this young baby stressed about that. So I wouldn't say our intimacy was hot at the time. Honestly, we're stressed. That is not going to rattle our re like our bond. It's not going to rattle the security that we feel because we are in this for life. So we as Aaron talked about, we communicate about it. Hey, I know we're not really prioritizing this area. What do you need most right now? We have those check ins and things like that. So I wanted to speak to the mindset first and then I could come back to like even more recent years past, past that 2022 kicked our butt. So we've definitely gotten out of that. But what would you say the thing.

That came to me was and we never set this up initially like this is what we're going to do with our marriage. But we realized we were doing this later on. We've never rejected the other person's initiation. And so it's not something that we have strictly coached anyone on because you have to recognize we're together all of the time, 100% of the time. Our daughter goes off to a Montessori school. We run this business together. You couldn't spend more time. Some people might equal but we spend all the time together. So that just needs to be put in perspective because other people go and do other jobs and they're away from each other. Maybe someone's watching the kids, they travel but there's definitely something to that. At a deeper level, if you feel like you've made attempts and you've tried to initiate intimacy with your partner and you've gotten rejected, whether it was an actual rejection or not, maybe they retired, they didn't have the capacity. And so them saying hey, no, not right now came off to you as they rejected me. I recognize that we have not done that to each other over the years and it wasn't necessarily set up that way but I think we did recognize, hey, it's just probably a good thing that we really communicated about where we're at. And we've pretty much always said yes to the other partners initiation that you had.

You're like, hey, we're never gonna like reject one another.

I don't. Yeah, I think it's more I think.

We did like later on we realized that we were kind of doing it almost by accident. We said this is probably a good thing and we make sure we're clear about and we continue.

I will say too that I think what allows us to be because I think some people could hear that. And then whether it's the male or the female, they're like, see, you can never say no. You should not say no to me. But we make intimacy a priority, which intimacy is both emotional and physical. And so we actually, for January, we had like a special edition challenge for our. Our big thing with couples is 30 day couples challenges. They love them because it's something specific they can focus on. So we had one that focused on both emotional and physical intimacy, and couples loved it because that's the formula and everyone is different. I actually know some relationships where the woman has more physical desire than even the male. Right. So, but it can be predominantly men. And for me personally, I can't be like, oh, yeah, I'm all in physically, baby. If, like, we haven't talked about our feelings in weeks. I don't know where your head's at. I don't know where, where I like, if I haven't been able to be vulnerable. That's just not how my body works. And a lot of women are like that, also men. So I say all that to say intimacy should be a priority in your relationship. And remember, intimacy is both emotional, both physical. How are you making them both priority in the relationship?

I also, I'm not under the illusion that if I've caused a conflict and I've done more damage to her, that now I'm just gonna come back later without any discussion and try to have sex with you.

I haven't apologized to you, but let's go to the bedroom. Like, that's a turn off for women.

Like, if I could list if men would be a little bit more in their foresight of what needs to be repaired, and you're making sure that your partner feels repaired. It's not just this lingering conflict, this lingering damage that's been done. I think your partner's going to be much more open. I think they're going to be more ready when you do initiate. But when we're just letting things build up and I can swear and I can escalate real quick, and then I just let time pass, and I think that's enough for you to be now ready. And you. You desire me now. It's like when I just put you down earlier in the day. I mean, I just don't have that expectation. I wouldn't. Why would I think that?

What would you suggest to, like, So I feel like this has happened with Garrett and I, like, you get in a fight or you couples get in a fight, and then it's like at some point, it's like you got to let that go and not bring it Back up into conversations.

This is a big topic that's, it's.

Something that's happened for us over years. I'll be like, but I'm not that person anymore. So why are we using that to throw daggers at one another?

Oh, we conflict is one of our main topics. Our last book was called the Argument Hangover. A lot of our content is on. We cover the three Cs, conflict, communication, and connection. And so I could go on for days with conflict because I'm really passionate about it, growing up in a very high conflict family. And I really want, I mean, my daughter is seeing healthy conflict. So I'm a cycle breaker. Let's go. So I could go on a rampage about it. But we have agreements for times of conflict that we treat them as laws. These aren't all, oh, I'll try not to yell at you, I'll try not to cuss at you. They are laws in our relationship and that holds us accountable. So our four are, we will not yell. We will not name call or label each other. We won't bring up the past as ammunition. So that's a big one for couples. And then we won't storm off or shut down without saying we're going to come back to it. And there's a lot of reasons for every single one. We don't have to go into them. But to your point, we don't bring up the past as ammunition. And if you're bringing up something that's pass related, whether it's the last week or a year ago, it's a sign you didn't actually repair. And most people don't know what a repair conversation is. Couples suck at repair because most people weren't modeled it. If you were lucky, your parents showed you how to say I'm sorry in a marriage. Sometimes I'm sorry, I'll cut it, sometimes it won't. Sometimes there's more to say. And so learning to like write this down, everyone listening, like, learn to have a repair conversation because it is so crucial to maintaining intimacy, to maintaining connection. It's not just the date nights. It's not just communication. It's making sure that clutter doesn't build up between us.

What are the four again?

So no yelling, no name calling slash labeling. No bringing up the past as ammunition. And then no storming off or shutting down without saying, you know, we'll come back to this.

Well, if you did those for you, it'd be great.

But what do you do? Because here's the thing though. At some level, there's times you have to have grace because we're all human. And so for me, it's been like, one of these places. I'm like, well, that happened. How did that spiral? And then I'm like, I can, like, we can have this repair conversation, but I want to, like, let go. That, like. Like, that didn't ruin our marriage for sure, you know, And I used to get to this place where I'm like. Like, it would almost, like, just feel guilty. And so I had to almost, like, kind of, like, let go. I'm like, hey, that had a human moment. As long as we have this conversation of, like, repair, I feel like I can kind of, like, move on. But it took me a long time to kind of figure that out about myself.

Yeah, we need to have that sprinkle of grace. Yeah. We're not going to be perfect. Do we aim to keep those agreements 99.9% of the time? Yes. Do we once in a while raise our voice? But what we do is we gently remind each other. So if we feel it's getting escalated, we'll be like, hey, let's keep our agreements. You know, one of us will say that. We'll take a pause. I mean, we're just so committed. Like, I'm. Especially because of my upbringing, I am convicted to truly have healthy conflict, to not do damage to each other, to not get too dysregulated. So we will cool off if we need to. Hey, we're getting too heated here. Let's both cool off for 10.

And.

And honestly, for us, if we go cool off for 10 minutes, we're able to come back so much clearer and actually say what we mean without being mean. Write that down. Say what you mean without being mean.

Instead of being so reactive, you're like, I just need to not react right now.

What is your book called again? The. The Argument Hangover.

The Argument Hangover.

Are the four in there?

We do list them there.

Yeah, the four in there.

Yeah. We also have that in our conflict guide. If people are, like, looking for resources, we have an entire strategy for conflict in our conflict guide. We're big on, like, actionable tools.

Yeah.

Couples to go through.

So last topic. You ready?

Yeah.

Number one. You two are great, too. Yeah.

Like, listen, we're just at dinner.

Fun talking to you guys.

I know. It's like, you're just the mountain. It's fun to sit, fun to be with people who have put this much time and energy and focus into one particular conversation. Right. Is how you become a master elite. At it. So question why people listen and follow to you and follow your counsel advice while the guys elite movements that I know have been plugged into you God as a conversation. Right. So you have all these tactical tools that we're dealing with. And for years I thought, hey, me and my trainers and our curriculum and our books were the transformational process. I came to terms with reality about three years ago that we've been pursuing this game of truth. But transformation was never something that, that we ever delivered. All the truth did was bring God in. And when God came in, transformation, atonement, rebirth of a human being and of a couple could happen. The spiritual divorce that we call it warriors, like, yeah, you so guys are like, I can't do this marriage tomorrow. I know it sucks. Your marriage sucks. You know it sucks. She knows it sucks. You both know it sucks. So we got to get divorced. And they're like, so I didn't say you had to get separated legally divorced. I'm saying this doesn't work. So we got to do something different. You can be two new people. The piece we found is that God is the only way that's possible. We can give all the tools and tactics and systems. But in the end, there's a moment they're going to have to have their own encounter with rebirth with themselves. How does God play into the conversation for you to as a couple and also with everything you're building and the impact you're making. Because if marriages continue to burn to the ground at the rate they're doing and the, the, the, the game coming with the kids underneath us who are not getting married, they're not having kids because they're watching all the chaos. What has been that piece for you two as a couple and what's been that piece in just what you feel called to do with this movement that you built?

You want to take it. I mean there's, it's a, for us, it's a very personal journey because I had to overcome a lot of religious trauma. I was raised Jehovah's Witness. You mentioned being raised. Was it just you raised Mormon? Both. Okay. And you knew that when you met. Like, okay. So yeah, I had to overcome like so much fear and conditioning and everything from the Jehovah's Witness and just the fallout of how my parents divorce went and like lost all the family. We were disowned because we left, left the religion. And so I had a very, very negative feeling about faith, religion, God. I couldn't even talk about God till I was in my church 20s, because I was so angry at how it completely tore apart my family. Lost my grandparents, aunts, uncles, everything. So I was like, God conversation, stay over there. And so when I met him, he was, as he had mentioned already, like, born and raised Christian, Christian household. I met him, he read the Bible every day. Like, he was a real Christian, right? Read the Bible was a top priority for you. And he didn't push it on me. He really didn't. Even though he was so devoted and he knew where I was open about where I was at, he never pushed it on me. He was never, like trying to sell me on it or anything. He was just open to my questions. And that was. That made me feel really safe to explore it. So him just answering my questions, him just authentically being in his faith, was an ex. Like, I was like, wow, that's. That's interesting. I like the way he's talking about it and how that feels. So he really is the one that brought me back to God, to faith. And for us, over our decade plus together has been a journey of really like that relationship with God, right? And we talk about it and still even grapple with questions. You know, to be honest, I still have questions because again, all the conditioning. So I will still be like, hey, I'm doubting this. Like, can we talk? We're driving to pick up our daughter the other day, and I was like, like, I have a God question. So we, like, talk about it, we grapple with it. We. Yeah, what would you have said? What would you say about it?

Yeah, that's right. I mean, it really bonds us for sure. I mean, being able to have those types of conversations. I know your big question is, how can these things, you know, in the world happen to kids? You know, like, how can a God. How can a God let that happen? And that's a. It's a very hard question, right? And whether people go down the. We're free to choose and God wants us to choose him. At the end of the day, the path is all the same. The path to God is the path of growth, the path of marriage, the path of life. To me, it all leads to the same place, and it's the highest place of value. And when you do that, I think it just reduces the level of significance of all the other things that we put so much weight on. If God's at the top, then. And all this other stuff starts to become a level one or a level two, right? You get a lot of. You just get peace. That's where peace is that's where you really get love. It's where you get grace from. So at the end of the day, if we're all pursuing that in our marriage, I mean, you're pursuing that anyway.

And then to answer the business question, we share our faith with people. Right. Whether we mention it in our podcast or on interviews, it's not a central part of our brand. For that reason. I mentioned before of all the trauma I had gone through. I just don't feel it's my purpose to, like, kind of, in a sense, like, have that be the only way I serve people.

Right.

Like, my purpose is truly to help people create harmony. Yeah. I just. I. I'm. That's my purpose, and that's my passion. And I think we just share it authentically, and people pick up on it. Some people don't. Right. We also have followers from all over the world, so all different religions.

Yeah.

But it's a big part of our personal relationship and what we talk about.

I think you guys have something that's very powerful, and I think it essentially could, like, save a world. Like, about, like, not.

Yeah, no, not.

Not a big responsibility.

Responsibility. But, like, that's the calling that you're choosing. Because there's so many marriages, like. Like, falling apart off of, like, simple tactics that you're teaching that our parents didn't know how to do that. We were raised in a certain box in a certain religion, and it's not necessary anymore. And it's why families are falling apart. And so I think what you guys are doing is amazing. So I want to give you kudos for that. And I think that ultimately, God gives us kind of callings in life, and when you serve that higher calling, that's when you have the. The bigger impact.

Yes. And Aaron does guest sermons like we do. We are brought into churches. And again, we just don't, like, market. Like, it's not marriage and Christian marriages only. Right. But he's an incredible guest pastor. I mean, incredible. People standing ovations, crying in the audience. And so he has a real gift in him to connect messages, godly messages to people. So it's. It's like, it's there. We. We more. So we walk the walk. Right. We don't just talk the talk like we are being it. And I think people, like, pick up on it. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you.

You two have both been called by God, and you're delivering God to people's doorsteps in the greatest ministry ever.

Thank you.

It's beautiful. And now I know why you chose It.

Yeah. Oh, he's.

This one. This one brought you back to God.

Oh, for sure. Yeah.

And talk about a grounding force. And you stayed pure in your commitment for as long as you did so that you could hold the weight without the baggage of what you two are called to do.

Wow.

That was a huge work that you've done on yourself. Even if it's all the times you would have felt so alone. It's been very fun for me to just get to meet you at a soul level, dealing with men, watching their process, watching you unfold, and the respect that you have for him that you deliberately show. This is what men want. They want to be seen, and they want to be respected. And you did it today on the show so effortlessly. And the dance between you two and your voice. My guy speak.

Yeah.

Like, you have it. You have a gift. You have the game. And there's. There's a tone in it that comes from God through you. And I would listen to you speak. There's a tone that comes. This tone was the tone I had to find.

Oh, wow.

So there's a piece in this that. That surrounds all of us. And what you're doing, I am telling you, in the movements that I lead with men, this is the biggest and the most painful part of their entire lives. They can build empires and make hundreds of millions of dollars, and they will sit on my couches in complete destruction because they just want their wife to see them, to respect them. And a lot of it is felt like it's too late. So there's a lot of work on helping guys get to the grounded place, but you two definitely have the tactical tools. Like we said before, man, listen, if you're listening to show these are your people, like, we might be your gateway and punching in your face. And I'm like, I'm gonna talk about the email game of my guy here for his whole life. We're gonna have fun with it because that's bro life for me.

Yeah.

Yeah. So it's like. It's a respect thing. I'm like, well done. Knife salesman at a waterbed convention. My guy. Well done. You two are doing amazing work. I Look, we could do the show for like. Like 15 hours and does not even scratch first five chapters of your book. So argument. Oh, the argument Hangover. Argument hangover. What is the best. I know you guys do the challenge. Talk to me about the challenge. Challenges were great, too. We love it, and we have so many. We've. We've started little small couples things here and There. But the truth is we. That's not our calling.

Yeah.

Our calling is to, like, help people like you that get our people get to know you and others so that we can. To help them. Because we can't help them with everything. Like, we went down the path and tried it. We were. We got done after the first, like, month of doing these couples trainings. And we're like, who are we kidding? We're podcasters. We don't even know what we're doing. We should stop doing this right now. You guys look more qualified. You do it. But you guys have put in the work there. So the challenge. What's the best way for them to start?

Everything that they want to see is at Meet the Freemans dot com. So you've met the friends. The Freemans. Meet the Freemans dot com. That's also our Instagram handle. And everything's there from our in person couples workshops. We've got one next weekend in Arizona. Guides challenges. Yeah. I mean, every resource is there. Really perfect. Every step that couples meet the Freemans.

You guys just made it easy.

I know we have a podcast that's on there, but so basically every resource could be found there.

When I first found you guys, I was like, don't they have a reality show somewhere? Like, that name is literally.

That's who she. She was. I think they have a show. I think, like a reality show. I was like, I don't know. They got a reality show. But their Instagram. Instagram game is solid. I love. I've watched like 35 of your videos, like, in a row. Just one. I was like, dude, these guys are script the out. This is so good. This is how not to not be a partner. This is how to be connected. I'm like, that takes a lot of planning. We do videos.

Yeah, that happened.

Yeah, that's.

It really helps that we. I mean, we're still coaching couples, like two on two. Honestly, Jocelyn does. So Jocelyn will just write down, like, we're in a coaching session and she writes this down. So then the next day we wake up and she's like, this is exactly how they said it. All we got to do is. Is act this out or things from our experiences too.

Both. But yeah, I mean, we just have Christmas decoration was.

She wanted that one because Christmas decoration was hilarious.

Fifteen scenarios with Danielle. Yeah, I'm gonna get to that. I'll get it. Yeah, it up. Blew.

Blew up immediately. Because everyone relates.

Everyone knows every dude has been in that place. Sometime in the next week, I will do that. I'M committed.

Just stop asking me. Why are you asking me again?

All right, we'll meet the Freemans dot com.

Yeah.

Follow them all on social media. This is gonna be a big hit. This show's gonna be great conversation.

Thank you.

I love it. I bet you want to wrap it up.

No, no. You.

No, you got it. Your money. Let's go.

All right.

I was like, I was so into.

The moment, I forgot we were even doing a podcast. All right, you guys, if you are listening this show, you have one responsibility. Share this show. You know it will have impact on other people. And that's what we ask you to do when watching this show because it's all about impact and reach. And we have couples in our home because we want them to share their messages. So, you guys, thank you so much for being here on the show. Meet the Freemans. The reality show drops soon.

You guys can do every single week.

For another episode of the Day youy Wife podcast.

Also, the show itself brought you by Wake Up Warrior. All of the tools that we need to guide men into a powerful place. You can get free tools and training as well as join us on our free Bible study we do every single week on Tuesdays. Virtual with thousands of men. Learn to find power in the word, translate that into wisdom, into wealth, and into work. So check it out. Wake up warrior.com. and that brings us to a close here with our second episode in Miami on the Day podcast.