Power Couples :: Welcome Sean & Sax Whalen!

And I realized that, like, if I want her to appreciate what's important to me, then I have to appreciate what's important to her.

Well, hello, my friends, and welcome to the date your wife podcast. We have a very unique experience today. We have not. We warmed this one up last night. We started warming up the content. So we've probably used all of our greatest content and we'll have nothing to tell you today. But either way, we have a guest. Two guests on the show. We've never had a guest on the show. We get asked by, we get a whole bunch of marketers to put certain people on the show, and we've never done it. So we have. We have guests on the show today. We have a deep relationship with this couple, and they are just as powerful in the game of being married and taking a stand publicly for marriage and lead a movement on their side, just like Danielle and I do. And any hints, Danielle, to who our guests are unless the cameras have already shown them.

I feel like it's. It's your brother from another mother.

It is.

It's. I always feel like you and this person have always, like, connected, even when you disconnected. I was like, they'll be back. It's fine.

Yeah.

So you know what you do with.

Your brother when you know you love him is that you sue him. It's probably one of the highest forms of flattery when you really care about somebody is you sue them. And that's what I did. Not anything I can take back. There's just moments in life like this tattoo right here on my right arm. This is one of those things that you just. You kind of deal with it. You're like, I did that. I made that decision right there. That was probably my best decision. I can't get that removed. And so our guests today are the founders of Lions not Sheep, a movement that has been rocking now for just about a decade, a decade, maybe a little bit longer. And has impacted people all over the world. It's the only brand or apparel inside of our Wake Up Warrior programs that is authorized to be worn besides Warrior. So in events, you'll see Warrior gear. You'll see Lions not sheep gear. You'll see both. We did a co branded piece of material and a shirt here at warriorcon4 with free man on the chest, because that was a concept that Sean had come up with. So we are excited to have both of our friends.

It's weird sitting here. You're talking about us and we're here. I'm like, do they know that we're here. So welcome, welcome.

Kind of a warm up. And here we are. So Stacks, we're going to start right off with like a fiery, fiery fire question. Okay.

So I'm not awkward or nervous.

Sean is a psychopath.

Yes.

And you chose to marry him.

Did.

Okay. Talk to us about this decision of getting married. Part of it to this man. Like, what was like, give us, give us the rundown on this marriage game because you guys have a very unique path that this, this thing happened. And then we're going to dive in and talk about being married and relationships and have fun.

Yeah. So I was definitely sober when I marri. And we actually had. We kind of have a crazy story. So we dated a little bit. I broke up with him, we dated again, and then we were engaged really quickly. And it was one of those things where I just knew that I was supposed to be with this guy. I didn't really like him all the time, but he was. He inspired me in ways that I'd never, ever, ever seen another human operate. And I just knew that that was completely cohesive with what I wanted to build and create in life. And so I married the maniac. And it's been. It's. Thank you, love.

How long have you guys been married now? Two.

Almost three.

Three years.

Almost three years.

When was the official marriage date? Like wedding day?

221 21.

221 21. So coming up. Yeah, like two months or so.

Two months.

I'm recording us. Yeah. Okay. So you, you.

That's the extent of the story.

No, but.

Well, here's the.

Here's the funny part about actually the getting married is. So.

Gotta warm her up a little bit. You guys got some tequila around you?

Always.

Always. So when we got married, we got married in the middle of the desert and he. We kind of had some, like, there was some tension with actually showing up to the. To get married.

I wasn't in. I didn't want to get married. I wasn't in married. I was like, yo, let's just live together. We're cool. Like, we'd both been married. Like, you know what I mean? Like, after my last relationship, I just was like, not in. Like, what is marriage?

Right?

Went to that rabbit hole of like, it's just a piece of paper, it's the government, we can have the same kind of shit and whatever, whatever. But she's like, look, I'm not playing house. Like, I'm not going to play house. So you do one of two things and it like reframed me from, like, being a selfish prick of saying, I don't really need marriage and understanding, like, hey, there. These checks and balances of, like, well, this is important to her, and where am I willing to go in that importance? And so, like, leading up to the marriage was, like. It was. It was interesting because I asked her to marry me, but I was kind of like, all right, that part's done. Let's revisit this in a couple years. Right now you got a ring. Now you're solid.

And I used to say, no.

Like, let's fucking do this shit. And it was like, word.

I'm like, did you ask me to be engaged to you, or did you ask me to marry you? But I also wouldn't even move in with them because I had a beautiful home. I have my. I had my life. I'm like, I'm not going to uproot my children, move into your house, your bachelor pad, and, like, not interested. Just love you, but I'm not interested. And so there was. You know, there were some big challenges that we ran into.

So you never. Yeah, you never lived together, and here you are. Like, I feel like when you're older and kind of have set in your ways, it's probably almost, like, harder to just get thrown into the marriage mix without living together. So how was your first year?

It was really rough.

No, no, no.

First year of being married was rough.

Okay, Keep you. You keep going. You didn't want to get married pre that. Like, there was friction on that. You were going down the road to the desert. And so, like, I was just. Didn't care about the marriage. And so she'd bring me all this shit, and I'm like, I don't really care, like, what he does. Like, let's just go to the courthouse. And she's like, no. Now, we didn't need the big elaborate thing because we'd both done that before. But we're like, I'm just like, let's just go get a piece of paper and get this shit done over with, right? Like, I'm cool. Like, let's go. And so she wanted to plan this wedding, and it was causing contention where I was like, look, I don't fuck. I don't care where we do it. I don't care what we do. I don't care who's there. I don't give a shit. As long as it's us and our kids, that's it. I don't care if my family's there, if your family's there. And so Literally, it got to a point where she said, you know what? Fuck it. I'm just going to tell you when and where to be. And I was, like, done.

Like, GPS coordinates this time, if you want to be there.

She literally gave me the G. I had no idea what we were doing, who was coming. I literally bought a suit. And she's like, this is the day. This is the time that I need you to be. And here's the parking lot I need you to be in. I'm not making this up.

Were you on time?

It was, like, cool. Oh, yeah. It was solid.

Yeah.

Those photos are.

Those photos, actually, they're cool. Those are sick photos. Was it. Where was it at? In Utah.

It was, like, in the Red Point.

Where was it?

Moab.

Oh, yeah.

Because it was like, Red Rock. Yeah. But leading up to the marriage, it was, like, a lot of that friction because she pushed me into a place that I didn't want to go. You know what I mean? And I pushed her. She'd never been able to. Like, she'd always been the alpha in all the relationships, but she'd never actually butted up against an alpha. And so there was a lot of friction of, like, you know, do I want to push this guy? Is he going to bounce? And then I'm like, yo, you're just being like a fucking bitch. Like, what are we doing? You know what I'm saying? Like, why is this so important? And so it really, like, we ripped open all the band aids. We opened up all the. It's like she had the lock, the key to the locks, and she's just picking them all open. And I was doing the same thing for her, which was, like, incredibly uncomfortable.

Right.

It should be romantic and sweet and loving, or I was like, we were at war in a lot of ways going into being married, because it was like, we both saw that this is what we wanted, and there was a lot of depth to it. But it also freaked us the fuck out. Just straight up, it freaked us the fuck out because we were like. We knew who we had to become. We knew what we had to do in order to play ball with each other. And we both were kind of like, yeah, let's do this, but go fuck yourself. Like, I'm not going down that rabbit hole. And it was really crazy. It was really cool. Like, looking back at it now, really cool.

I feel like women want, like, the commitment. Like, they're like, I don't care if you say you're committed. It's like, the significance of, like, getting Married, having the ring, like, that's.

It's.

It's a commitment level, right?

For sure.

So I think that's what women want, whereas men are like, I don't see the deal. So how did you shift your mind? Like, how did you. Like, like. Because now you guys seem really solid. Like, you seem like you preach and teach marriage. And you went from, like, not wanting to be married at all to now, like, being, like, a power couple.

We.

We. For me, like, when we got married, it was cool. Like, our first year wasn't bad, but, like, we moved into my bachelor pad. I legit had this huge house. There was guns everywhere. There was artwork everywhere. And I'm like, hey, make this house yours. Here you go. Here's the credit card. Go do whatever. She's like, this isn't our house.

Yeah.

She's like, I know you who's been here. I know you had other people here, and this isn't our house. And I was kind of like, oh, word. So it made me, like, level up. But that whole. The whole thing about marriage, like, it's. It's a really interesting stigma because at our age, there's a lot of single people and there's this, like, idea of. It's very few people that you know in the single world that ever actually get remarried, or if they do, it's like a bad mistake. They're in there for a couple minutes, and then they bounce. I think, like, for me, I had to look at what she wanted, right? I'm used to just getting what I want. And my prior relationships, I did whatever I wanted. I got whatever I wanted, and I never really had any pushback. You know what I'm saying? Not saying that it wasn't a bad experience. It's just there was never any, like, pushback. And so she starts pushing on me, and I'm like, yeah. Like, the first time she broke up with me, I'm like, you don't break up with me. Like, who the fuck are you going to break up with me? Like, what are you talking about? Like, I'm the fucking creme de la creme. Like, go back to Bumble. You want to go back to Bumble, right?

I did have a lifetime membership.

Yeah, she did.

Lifetime membership, yeah.

She still does. So, you know, you got that going for you. But it pushed me, like, into really looking at, like, what does she really want? Like, what's important. And so I looked at it, I was like, okay, why am I resistant to marriage?

Yep.

Why am I resistant to it? And I really didn't have a reason other than my own fears and my own things. And do I get a prenup? Do I do this? Do I do that? And I realized that, like, if I want her to appreciate what's important to me, then I have to appreciate what's important to her.

Yeah.

And it, like, it re. Shifted my brain in the sense where I was, like, I started looking at marriage as me showing her that I cared about what was important to her.

Yeah.

And, you know, it wasn't really the piece of paper, and it wasn't this. It was like she wanted this. And I mean, look, you can lie and cheat and steal with or without a piece of paper, right? It's not about that. But I knew that that little thing that was important to her, I wanted to show her that. And so then it's just. I was like, okay, well, it. Let's get married, then. I'm totally kosher. For a couple years, I was like, not in the marriage game at all. Like, I did not want to get married. I was totally cool to not be married.

But see, and like, knowing you now, I can't even imagine because you truly love, like, the institution of marriage and you speak. And so I wonder, like, do you think, and I've asked you this a lot, but do you think that you were just convincing yourself that you didn't because of, like, fears? Because a lot of people, I think especially that are divorced now, it's like, how do I show back up and do that?

I see a lot of, like, successful guys that are. They just are like, I have everything I want until they realize there's this little piece of them that's missing.

Yeah.

And that piece of them that's missing is that pushback that you're talking about. They want a woman to push them because that's how you. You can only get to a certain level on your own. When you marry somebody and you get that, then you grow together and you go to the next level. I'm sure.

And I think for those, quote unquote, successful guys, and if we're defining success by the temporal, the money and the. The stuff, I mean, here's these dudes that are like, me, 40, 45, 50 years old, that, you know, have a lot of money, very established kind of a deal where all of a sudden you become single. And it's like, there's a lot of fear. There's a lot of things. But there's also that thought process of, like, yeah, I'm just going to be this ultimate bachelor I'm just going to chase around, you know, young ass, and it's just going to be great. And it's wildly unfulfilling. Yeah, it's wildly unfulfilling. It's very easy, though, to be surrounded by that nowadays with social media and what you see and. And the truth of the matter is, like, being single and having at least a pot to piss in puts you above what most other dudes. And so a lot of women look for that. And so you step back and go, well, why would I deal with her and locking it down when I can just fucking be with somebody different every other day? And that's way easier. It's really not. And I think you know this as you've spoken to countless men, and I know the same thing. Like, it's actually significantly harder to do that. But it takes a man who's willing to, like, really look at his shit. Like, why am I here? Like, and it's not an issue of, why did I fuck up my last marriage? I said out of the other, but it's like, who do I have to become to be a better version? And I think if you're successful and you get divorced, it's almost like a regression of sorts. You're basically a horny teenager. You just have a bunch of money.

Yeah.

You have no responsibility. You're not accountable to your word. You're a liar.

You.

But you have a bunch of fucking money in a big house, in a fast car. That's really the only thing separating it. So you have to kind of figure out how to evolve and grow. And that's like, even with our. With not getting a prenup, I was just like, look, man, I'm all in. Like, once I chose to be all in, I was like, yeah, I don't want to have an exit plan. I don't want to have this, like, even, like, the smallest stigma in the back of my mind of, here's my parachute, I'm going to pull the cord and bounce. Go fuck yourself kind of a deal, right?

But yeah, so this game we talked about last night as we were sitting around the fire, this. This topic, because it's coming up with YouTube and it's coming up, Danielle and.

I over and over and over again.

And we were talking about. We shared on the show, like, the. The crowbar to the face of March of 2023, from Danielle to me. And then Danielle, you and Sax last night were both going off about the power play of being. Being in a position as a powerful woman with powerful Men, like, part of your role is to collide and create the friction. Talk to me more about that, both of you two. So, Danielle, you first. Like, what. What do you see that as? Because we talk about, like, doormat women and doormat relationships and. Or vice versa, where the other one's not showing up. What are your thoughts?

I honestly feel like it's women's responsibility to keep the men connected. I know that sounds, like, wild, but it's like, we need attention. We need to be seen, we need to be heard. And it's very easy, especially when you're successful, to get lost in the lifestyle and to say, it's okay, he's hunting, he's taking care of me. That's enough. And I'm like, it's not enough. Like, I want to be connected on, like, another level. I'd give. I told Gary the beginning of this year. I'm like, you can take all the cars and money. I go, I don't want it. I was at a point where I was like, I'll lose it all if I'm not connected. So I think that that's a powerful place to grow, because you're in a relationship because you want to be, not because you care about the cars and house and the, like, getting your bills paid. It's just like. And it makes you. When there's hard times, you're like, hey, like, I'm here. We're gonna. We're gonna go through the mud first, and we're gonna figure it out. So I don't know. I just. I. I had gotten in, like, a dark, like, painful place that I was like, I'm too powerful to sit in this place anymore, and I'm willing to collide with him even if it means I'm risking everything, which I knew I wasn't, but it's still scary, you know?

So, Zach, you were talking about this last night, too, of just the role of a powerful woman in a powerful man's life. What are your thoughts on this?

Well, I feel like it's our response. I take it as like, it's my responsibility to do everything in my power to help him become the best version of himself. And I take that on as a responsibility. And I feel like if most more spouses would take on that responsibility, like, I don't want to cosign on your shit. I don't want to enable stuff that I can see that's holding you back. Like, I'm going to tell you things that will probably piss you off, and I'm doing It. Because I love you, but doing it in a way that I'm. I want him to rise, not like, tear him down. Because this can be kind of probably misconstrued. Like we're nagging or we're, you know, it's more like I see the potential, all of his greatness and potential, and I will not stop pushing him into seeing that for himself. And that's that sharpening of the sword. What is that called? It's a Whetstone. Jordan Peterson talks about it. And to me, it's just like, I feel like, especially women, they stop speaking up because they're afraid, right? And it's like, no, like, your voice is such a voice. It's a powerful voice, and sometimes it's the only. It may be the.

You might.

You might be the only person that can actually speak that to your husband, right? And so don't back. I would not want anybody to back down from that based on fear because that's where real trust, like in our relationship comes from. Or I trust him so much and he trusts me so much because we know we're gonna get truth and it might be ugly, but. Yeah, so that's.

It's an interesting thought process though, because, like, I mean, we operate a lot the same way. And you're running and there's that little boy, right? And so you start coming at me, it's like you have two choices. To acknowledge it and realize what it is or get super fucking but sore about it and be like, you don't know or whatever or both. Or there's a dance. Yeah, I mean, there's a fucking dance with it. You know what I'm saying? Because, like, you're trying to push me and I'm like, yo, just like, fuck you. Like, I don't need to be pushed right now. Just love on me for a minute or just fucking see me for a second. Like, just leave me the fuck alone. And there's that dance. You know what I'm saying? I think when you take two powerful people, like, it's a really. It takes a lot of self awareness to get what that is, right? Because with us, I know you guys do, there's trust issues, right? And it's not necessarily a derivative of one experience. It's. It's a lifetime. It's childhood. It's your childhood, your childhood, her mind, it's everything, right? It's X's, it's things, it's people, it's. It's society, it's social media, there's a lot of Things that I think inject themselves into our psyche that keep us from really seeing what's real and what's not. And. And like, for us, like, we. We almost got divorced in a year. Here's our first year of marriage, which should be honeymoon bliss. And the whole thing. We literally lawyered up at a year. We both had lawyers. Because she's, like, pushing, and I'm like, you. And she's wanting to push harder, and it, like, ripped her open to this vulnerable reality where you're either going to keep fighting and I'm going to keep fighting, or we're going to actually get down to, like, another level of ourselves. Right? Because nobody had ever actually poked. I'd never been poked like that, and I never trusted anybody to actually have my back. And I think you see that a lot. I mean, there's countless couples. In my opinion, this is some of the root of, like, what's really driving people apart is it's like, you. You want that next level for me. You know what I mean? And I want that next level. But it's terrifying. It's terrifying to move into the $20 million house. It's terrifying to start the business. It's terrifying to fucking shoot the video and go online and start. We talked about that working out this morning. It's easy to, like, copy something after it's already been done, just put your name on it. But who's, like, picking up the machete and going. And I think that we. I internalize that. And I'm like, you don't. You'll never understand that. And you really won't really ever understand that. But I also have never trusted anybody to have my back in that. Right? And so on those days where it's like, I'm being a total pussy, she's pushing me. But on those days when I'm being a total pussy, she has that dynamic to be able to hold space and let me kind of have my little kid temper tantrum, right? Because then that triggers. When I have my temper tantrum, which we do, that triggers her insecurities. And so then her insecurities want to, like, protect and that protection then. And it's just this fucking vicious cycle. And I think, like, that push, you know, we talk about this a ton, right? I think there's a lot of women that are afraid to do it, and there's a lot of men that are not willing to see it.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And it takes a really vulnerable, like, really powerful man to be able to see that that's what his wife is doing. And it takes a really powerful woman to step into that space and be like, no, I got you, but fuck you. Go hunt. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

And it's like, it's a really interesting dance that I feel like we're getting. After we lawyered up and we decided, like, look, we're not. We're not gonna quit. Like, we might kill each other. We joke about it all the time. We'll never get divorced. One of us will end up murdering the other. We'll be on a fucking mystery murder show.

Lovely.

But that's just how it's gonna go down. But when we got to that place where it was like, look, we're gonna have to really fucking dive in here and really figure some shit out. Like, that's when the game started to really get interesting.

Because it sounds like a level. Like a. Just a higher level of commitment. Because you're like, hey, you can yell at me all day long. You can get mad at me, like, you're not getting rid of me.

Yep.

Because it forces both of you to work through your shit. And ultimately, like, men and women, I believe they want the same thing, speak different languages. You kind of have to, like, let that ego die and be like, okay, we are fighting about the same damn thing. We both want connection. Like, you know, all nagared about, like, working too much and this and that. He's like, I'm paying the bills. And I'm like, motherfucker, I just want more time and connection. And he's like, and I do, too. So he hears it as, like, a negative. And I'm like, I just want to hang out with my man.

Right.

So I think it's. It's for women. And maybe you can tell me, but, like, I feel like you have to be very careful with your words. It's almost like. Like, frame it. Like, I love you. You're amazing. You're doing big things. But also, here's the fucking standard.

You know, you have to give him a shit sandwich.

She calls it a shit sandwich. Tell them about the sandwich.

Sandwich.

Sandwiches. When you do just that, you're like, you know, thank you for all you do. Thank you for this beautiful home. Blah, blah. Here's all this that I need you to hear and then end it with, you know, I'm just really grateful to be married to you. Like, I really love what we're doing.

I call it Oreo, but I, like.

Just squish that right in the middle.

Oreo.

Squish.

It.

I think it should end at the end with sex. I think that's a good way to seal it.

100 a little.

Yeah.

Start with, like, the good. Give me the. And give me a blowjob. Yeah. Way more effective in a row.

I. Like, I. I think Danielle, I mean, we were not. We were not so good at it. Like, I. I still think we're still figuring out because a lot of, like, when I would receive that kind of kickback from Danielle. I mean, we've been together for 22 years with five kids, and I would get it, and I only could hear criticism, like, because I don't feel like you were ever giving me for years the.

You weren't.

I was just getting shit. There was no sandwich. There was just shit. Here's your shit.

No sugar.

Shit, no sugar with that. Even then, though, there were seasons. That's, like, there was hardly any sex. There was just shit. Figure shit out. Figure shit out. Figure shit out. Which was really, really hard. So you. You were able to make a shift in starting to be better at positioning what you were seeing and what you were saying. So what was different for you?

Well, for me, because I am very alpha. I'm also very feminine. And so I'm like, hey, like, chill your alpha out. Like, that's powerful, and that's great. But, like, be, like, flirty and doty and feminine and embrace this feminine role, which in doing so, like, I love it. Like, I am very feminine. I love being a mom. I love. I love taking care of my man. So there's this piece of me where I learned. I've learned how to, like, play the roles, but they are. All these roles are effective, like, in other areas of my life, you know, whether it's business, being a mom, being a wife. So I just have to really be like, okay. Sometimes I even have to tell them. I'll be like, hey, I'm really fucking mad. And it's not at. You had some shit go down that, like, I just need to tell you. So you don't think I'm, like, a raging bitch right now.

And I think that's awesome. Because if we. If we're very clear and to the point, then it's like, they're not getting in their heads about it, because it's like, they're. It's like, I just want you to be happy. Ultimately, I would imagine you guys. Most guys, they just want their woman to be happy, right? I want you to laugh. I want you to be feminine. I want you to be safe. But if we're doing that, then you guys are gonna get in your head about it.

That's so fucking hard because we've all read four agreements. Don Miguel Ruiz, you know what I mean? Always speak your truth. Don't take anything personally. Yet we do the exact opposite 99% of the time. You know what I mean? And so that's like, for me, been like really hard to believe what she's saying because to me there's always an ulterior motive. There's always like a. I'm just waiting for the asterisk and the. But you know, I really love you and you're doing so great. Yeah. Okay, now what? Give me the. Like, I know there's something else to this, right?

You know, your Sam.

And I think when you get to the, to a level where you can really truly trust each other, you know what I'm saying? And you trust yourself, you're like, look, I know I'm doing good. And I think too, it boils down to results. We talk about results, never lie, right? If I'm. If I'm putting in the work and paying the bills, if you will, you know, I know that I'm keeping up my end of the bargain, right? And I know that she sees that. And so even though she's wanting to poke and prod and push and whatever, whatever, I think a lot of dudes get off kilter because they aren't keeping up their end of the bargain. They're running around with man tits. They don't have their house in order. They're cheating, they're lying, whatever, whatever. And so you get poked at all, and it's a blow up, right? Well, now I'm kind of looking at it going, look, our house is in order. Like, we're solid. You know what I mean? I know I'm not lying. I know I'm not cheating. I know we take care of business kind of a deal. And so it's a lot easier for me. So I get in your shit together as a man. It's a lot easier to have a powerful woman when you have your shit together.

Yeah.

But when you're lying and hiding and running and deceiving and even from yourself, you can't take, which for a lot of my life I was, which I couldn't take any of that feedback. So then you just have a doormat. It's like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. This is way cooler, way nicer, way easier. But all of a sudden, like, you want that new level. It requires a new level of You Okay? So we were.

We lost a lot of minute. Batteries went down, but we're back, and actually we're talking about being responsible for the fact that you were holding in the truth and not sharing the truth with Sean.

Yeah. So I came to this realization because I moved out. Kind of moved out, like, a couple days, and I sat with myself, and I realized, like, I had nobody to blame but myself because I wasn't saying what I needed. I wasn't speaking up about things that were bothering me. And so I was fully responsible for my own resentment. And it was really powerful for me to look at that, because what I realized and humbled me was I will take that to every relationship. If I divorce him, that will always be because I'm not rising to that new level of using my voice and standing in a storm. It could create a storm.

But.

What was happening was I was getting sick and I was stressed out, and I was miserable, and I was on the verge of divorce. So it was incredible. And so when we came back together, as we made a pact, that that's when our radical truth really stepped in and us being all in, it's like, I don't care if I hurt your feelings. I love you enough to tell you the truth.

Don't even think too. Like, women. Like, even if it's something physical, like, we were always like, I'm fine. I'm fine. So, like, you were talking about your appendix, and he's like, what's the big deal? And you're like, it's literally. But it's because we're like, we don't want to burden people.

Yep.

We don't want to tell them we're hurting. We don't want to tell them we're in pain. And so they're surprised when you're then. And then we're mad, and we're like, you fucking dick, my appendix. But what?

What?

And I've had to do this, too. I'll be like, babe, I'm having a shitty day. I feel shitty. My kids are making me depressed. I have anxiety. So now I'm like, I'm going to tell you even when I'm hurting, because then you're not, like, surprised when I have a meltdown all of a sudden because you see the signs. So it's almost like we have to give them the warning signs so they can help us. Right.

And I. And I totally agree. And I believe that this affects women's health. Like, if you look at. Like, there's a book called the Body Keeps Score. If you look at what it's like for you to. A lot of women will just bury it and bury it and bury it, and then they end up with autoimmune disorders. And I truly believe in that connection. And it's like giving yourself permission to.

Take up space and to have a.

Shitty day and to be honorary and be human like God.

But even communicated, like, we don't have to be superwoman all the time.

You were like, Danielle, you were like. I mean, we talk about this, like, in therapy this year. I was like, you were a liar.

I learned that.

Yep.

But you were, like, a liar.

That was me this year. I was like, I've been lying. I'm not, like, two decades of lying.

And it all started coming out in the last, like, six, seven.

I don't think I realized that I was in the pain that I was in. And then I was like, I have everything, and I've hit every checkbox. I'm in the best shape of my life. What is wrong? And then I had to really take accountability for my feelings and then communicate to him. And then I'm like, I. I'm not gonna. I don't want to be unhappy, so let's fix this, you know? And it was kind of a rocky beginning of the year for us. But learning how to communicate as a couple is so crucial, because I do believe that powerful people want the same thing, but we just don't know how to communicate it very well.

Right.

I was like. I mean, I. It was.

It was.

I needed a minute. Like, even our therapist was like, hey, you can call a timeout and say, hey, you got to give me a few minutes. Like, you got to give me a moment or a day to be able to think through and just be with what you've just shared with me. Because you went from this time of, like, just everything was okay, and you were like, okay. And it was like, never. You were never saying anything. I mean, I'd seen you cry. I've seen you cry more in the last four weeks than I saw you cry in the first 19 years we were together.

Right.

You cried five times, maybe, max, in like, two decades. Five times.

You called me a Barbie in a box.

And you never were emotional, like, that way at all. And then all of a sudden, we're in this place where you're having.

See, But I felt like I was strong. I thought. I thought that was strong. I was like, same. You suck back tears. Don't burden anybody. And I realized it wasn't helping anybody, so.

But I think that had no idea you were going.

And that's the crazy part is like, you don't know, cuz you're like, we operate from that. Yo, Are we good? Yeah, really simple. And you're like, yes. And I'm taking you for your word, dope. I'm going like, the war's over here, the battle's over here. I'm slinging the sword, I'm building. I'm fighting and everything. And every day I'm like, I mean, it's just what it is. The world wants to crush you and break you down, and they want they culture, society. You're trying to build something big. Like, I don't have time to fucking sit around and, like, coddle and really get into the emotions and shit like that, right? And so if you're not telling me the truth, then what the fuck? You're literally lying to me. I don't know that.

Right?

And we got to that. That level at that year mark where I was like, you know, me, even me telling her, like, look, man, I'm out here, like, trying to build something big, have millions of eyeballs watching what we're doing, and I'm not crying about it. I'm not being a bitch about it. But it's a real thing, right? And there's lots of people that don't like it, that want to try and tear down, literally, people that, you know this. Like, people inside that want to tear down your. And so it's a constant weight of that battle where it's like, I'm here. Let's go. Let's go to Cabo. Let's do the deal. Are we good? And when you're like, yeah, we're good. I'm gone. I'm out the door, like, I'm going to hunt. And like, I think that just builds up and builds up and builds up to the point literally, it made her sick.

Yeah.

And. And then it got even worse because then I internalize it, and I'm like, well, what the. What do we got to do? And then it's like, oh, great, here we go again. I got this broad who's lying to me, who isn't going to tell me the truth. What did I do? I got married here. Now I'm gonna have to deal with the bullshit of divorce and splitting up. You don't earn. You know what I mean? And then that causes me that, all of that stuff. And it just got to that point where it was like, look, we either have to be completely candid. You know, we made this Agreement, like, look, we care way more about the truth than we do the emotions do. You guys don't care if you hurt my feelings. Tell me the fucking truth. I'm going to hurt your feelings, but you know, I'm going to tell you the fucking truth. And I think that level of connection and commitment is what a lot of people lack.

Yeah.

And, you know, if you don't have trust and you don't have something beneath you, that could cause a big problem.

Yeah.

Do you guys. So Garrett and I go through this a lot because there is times where I know he's got to go hunt, and I'm like, I've got to be. I have to be that role for my kids and my family. I have to be that strong role. But there's also, like, if that goes on for a long period of time, then that's when I feel like a little piece of meat is, like, dying. So there is times where I'm like, yeah, you need to go hunt, and I need to support. But then if that goes on for too long now, I recognize it. And I'll say, like, hey, babe, I feel a little bit connected or disconnected. So let's. Like, I'm not mad about it, but I want to get back connected. So it's like, for us, it's like we take, you know, little vacations together and things like that, to reconnect. Because to be on fire all the time with a powerful producer is damn near impossible. I don't care what anybody tells you. If they tell you it's possible they're living in La la land. And so it's like, you wordy. For us, it's just recognizing, hey, we drifted. I love you. Let's get back together and get connected. What do you guys do when you feel that drift? Because I do. Do you feel that? Am I the only crazy person? I love you, but, like, I need to. We need to get back together. Our thing's a little bit different.

I don't think we drift necessarily in that. Like, ours is that we're together all the time because we. Like, I retired my businesses when we got together, and so we're together so much to where it almost becomes, like, friction. Like, we're just. It's like agitation operation. Yeah. Our disconnection is agitation because we're just like.

Like, business operators together.

Yeah. And so our thing is the opposite. It's like, we have to space and then, like, appreciate the quality time and then reconnect.

It's really interesting that way because for us, we Are. And I wanted that.

Right.

Like, I did a post about it this morning. Like, she's front row every event that I'm at. We always go where I travel. But she went to Relic. Had a hockey tournament.

Yeah.

And she went up and then I forget what was going on. I had a bunch of stuff or something and didn't go.

It was just Black Friday.

And you own an apparel company.

Yeah, we were running. And so I stayed home and she went. And, dude, we were more flirty and sexual and connected and talking and FaceTiming over those five days.

Just with the space.

Yeah. By us taking some space. Right. But I think one of the things that we agreed to, too, is like. Like, I've. As a powerful woman, I've told her, I'm like, look, step into this. Like, if I can't see, and I'm like, running over here. You have two choices. You can nag and bitch and moan and go or literally go book the fucking plane tickets and tell me when to be there. And I'm there because I will never say no to that. Right. And I think there's a really interesting dynamic with us, too, is we both. I mean, energetically, you see it. I think now, as you guys know, you should get deeper and deeper. Deeper. You become more aware. You feel it.

Yeah.

You just feel like that disconnection. You're like, yeah, like, we're just kind of becoming roommates together. You know what I'm saying? And I think those. That ability that especially the woman has, that you have to take the reins and say, hey, he's out hunting. I don't need him to stop hunting. I'm just going to pull him out for a minute because we're down.

Yeah.

There will never be a day. And we've talked about this all the time where, you know, I love to. We love to journey. It's a really sacred space for us. And so one of the things that, like, we went to in our talking with our coach and our therapist is I was like, I want you to drive that ship. Like, I want you to take a day, a month and make that a priority where you pull me out of the Matrix. And, like, you set it up, whether we go to a cabin or we're at the house, like, where we get to kind of disconnect and journey together because it's. It's very, very, very spiritual for us, and it's very connecting in just a matter of a couple of hours. And so having her, like, drive that and say, hey, here's the day I'm like, dope, because I know what comes there. So I think, you know, I'm not. I've. I think a lot of women are resistant to that. Like, I'm going to throw him off his flow or he's in the middle of something.

You need that.

Yeah, we want that. Yeah, we want that. Like, I want that. And I get. Garrett would say the same thing. There's nothing, not just hotter, but, like, more connected to me, where it's almost like you're sprinting and you're running and you're fucking thirsty as shit, and she, like, hands you this water bottle and you're like, fuck. Thank you.

Right.

Like, whether it's a night away, whether it's a quick weekend to Cabo, whether it's literally, like, just going up to the. You know, for us, like, we go to Sundance for the night, and it's just disconnecting from everything and being together, but her driving that ship. Yeah, for me, I'm like, dope. And I don't think there's a single high producing guy out there that would be like, oh, she wants to go to Cabo and suck my dick. Like, I don't want to do that. You know what I'm saying? Like, oh, she's in. Like, let's go.

But it took you a while to recognize that, like, you'd be very resistant against, like, spending the money and taking the time off of work. Almost like he felt guilty, and I was like, I'm sorry. Like, we. We had this will we. This is a must have, right?

Yeah.

Well, we had. We had two elements we were facing too. Like, element number one was that for sure. So, like, I had a hard time valuing that and seeing the value of it. And the second part was, like, vacations for us and taking time away and going places was not, like, the most positive experience for me in our marriage.

So it was like we just fight.

And I was like, we'd fight and we wouldn't have sex, and we would debate. And then. So, for me, like, vacations became like, hell. I was like, I would rather stay home, like, go to Hawaii for seven days with you.

You was just like. And I was closing off, so you were sitting. Dating and work, and I was literally, like, shutting down, becoming resentful. And it just, like, the drift kept going. Like, the fact that we're still married. And I kind of like him.

Kind of like it. You're getting there. Kind of like your 50th wedding anniversary. All right, I'm in.

Our anniversary. I Was like, I think I'll keep you. It's like, after 20 years. Yeah, you're my guy.

See, I love that. I love that story with you guys, though, because there's so many people that are out there married, and it's like, is it too late? Can I do anything with this now? Is this just, like, dead weight? Do I need to go find something better out there? Which. It's not greener out there. It's just not.

I think you. That's what's cool about it, is like, you're. You're. There's no cap to it. There's no limit to it, right? I mean, there's all these books out there, and I think this is a real struggle in the space. Like, the relationship space is. It's. There's so many people putting out so much information and, like, what do we do and how do we do it? And date, date and redate and all sorts of stuff. It's like, look, this is your person. Like, that's. For me, what I got to. I was like, this is my person, right? I can fight with her. I can keep her at a distance. I can act like she's always nagging and bitching, or I just bring her in. And so for me, like, I brought her in, like, to everything. And, dude, a ton of people, like, I'm getting married at 41 years old, and everybody's like, I mean, we're making good money. We got some good assets. And everybody's like, yo, what are you doing? Like, where's the prenup and protect yourself. And I'm like, no, no, I'm going the opposite way. I'm like, here. Here's the keys. Literally, I remember when we first got together was like, I was still hesitant on, like, giving her the safe to the. Or the codes to the safe and the bank accounts. And we had to have these huge conversations around it. And I was like, let's get lawyers involved and all this other shit. And it was like, look, man, I've got two choices. I can live kind of at this distance and keep this. I think a lot of dudes do this with work and business. Like, we never talk about it. You don't know. And I was like, I've got two choices. Play that game. And I'm always going to have that, like, thing in the back of my mind. Or give her everything. Yeah, well, I chose to give her everything. And I'm like, here's the codes of the safe. Here's the money. Here's where the cash is stashed. Here's what the shit is. This is what this is. Like, put her on all the bank accounts and all the other stuff. And it's like, I think for me, it.

It freedom, where you to level up, like, in doing that, like, it's scary, but you're like, you. Your soul probably, like, knew it.

It's.

It's. Yeah, but at the same time, it's like, we. I think men hang on to this idea of alpha and this idea of protection, and we don't give our women enough credit for being savages. Real talk. And I think, like, you know, sometimes we get lost and you're married for a long time and you get soft physically, emotionally, psychologically. But, like, that's like, I didn't. I married a bad bitch. Like, we talk about this, like, this is our kingdom. And, like, I want her to pick up a fucking sword and cut somebody's head off just as much as anybody else. Like, and she's good at that. Like, she's got the mama bear to where at times I have to pull her, like, because like, the last year we've had a ton of people fuck with me, steal money from the company. Like, just a lot of crazy shit. And she'll, like, come uncorked. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, Let me go do the killing.

She's, like, going to war, fighting.

Yeah, yeah. But. But that's like. I think there's a lot of. There's a lot of scarcity in relationships in that regard, especially when you start making big money and you have other people and assets and things. And there's, like, this thought process that I'm gonna get fucked over, right? And even if you've never been fucked over, there's a ton of dudes in this space that are very wealthy that just have the mindset, like, she's gonna fuck me over. And I think that comes from a place of lack and scarcity. And I think that we've built relationships based off lack and scarcity. Even from the get. Like, as you start to come up and building and the whole thing, like, I'm out here working your home. That's how it. That's how we roll. And when I chose to, like, bring her into everything, like, there are no secrets there. When we have a bad day, it's all on table. When we have a good day, it's on the table. When we're up in money, when we're down in money, wherever it is, like, she's in the game. And for me, that. That frees me. So I don't think it was like, I had to choose to do that. To me, it was liberating, freeing. There was never, like, a secret or a. I'm not really. She's really kind of side eyeing me. Like, is that true? He's telling me there's a million. But is there like, this. Like, what is it? Like? It's. It's kind of that analogy. Once you stand naked in front of the class, everybody knows what you're playing with. Now you're not scared to get naked in front of the class anymore, but we're terrified to get naked from the class. And so I just made that decision. Like, I'm gonna go all in with this chick. Like, I'm all, like, everything and every fear, every emotion, everything, every past, every trauma. When I want to punch you in the face, I'll tell you when I'm sad, I'm gonna tell you when I want you to. Freaking me, I'm gonna tell you. Like, when we're up in business or all my ideas and everything, like, to me, it's created a really powerful union in the sense, like, I have nothing that I'm hiding. I have nothing that I'm running from.

Yeah.

And I have a person who's got my back legitimately.

Right. You probably feel safer.

Like, feel way safer.

It's funny, because women, we want to feel safe, but men do, too.

Right.

So it's. I keep going back to this. But, like, we want the same thing.

Yeah.

And it takes, like, you guys, like, being on the same frequency to, like, get it where you're like, you're human. I always tell Garrett. I'm like, hey, I'm having a human day. I was kind of a. But, like, we both know what we want.

Yeah.

And so then you can kind of, like, dial down the ego. And you're like, all right, let's have this conversation. You know what? However it looks like, we've been doing therapy every week this whole year, six months. Our therapist is so funny. He'll be like, danielle, let me tell you. They sound like. And I'm like, damn it.

I'm such a bitch. And Garrett's going, yeah.

Winning.

Yep.

Like, this guy. Keep talking.

But it's been good for just our communication because we realize some sessions are going to be spicy, but we also know what we want out of it.

I was talking to.

Well, one of the things I just want to talk about that is in the beginning, because he didn't understand why it mattered that I had the safe codes, why I had these things. And what I don't think a lot of men realize is women are in a very vulnerable space when they're raising children. Like, we're in a vulnerable space when we're dependent. It's a very. And if you want a feminine woman, you have to make her safe, feel safe being dependent. And so that comes with like a give and take. Cause him, he was like, well, just be happy. Look, here it all is. And I said, well, if I'm gonna give up my career, which I love and I'm good at, and I'm bringing in and playing this masculine role, and if you want this, you know, it's like, where's the exchange? Where's my. What's going to make me give you what you want? And that's where we had to do this dance. And it wasn't. He didn't want to, no. But he didn't have the perspective. So this is where, you know, it's like speaking up of, like, explaining why if I'm gonna give up my career, cool. I live in this house and cool. This and that. But what happens if things go to shit? You know, where is my. You know. And so it was this really cool growing opportunity where he got to see, oh, I get why that matters to you.

Well, it wasn't about the money. I think a lot of people hear it is like, oh, well, where's my backup plan?

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? And it's not about that because she knows. Like, yeah, I get hit by a bus, you got a couple million dollars in life insurance. Great, awesome, see you later kind of a deal. So I don't care about that. Like, I just want to know that you're being open with me. And that's a really hard dance because even you just saying that, people hear, oh, cool. Here's this pretentious bitch who wants to know, hey, where's all the safe money? So I've got my. You know what I mean? Insert whatever the fear fucking mongering is, right? But the truth of the matter is the way that I look at it and the way that I see it is that she knows that I'm playing all in. And to me, that's what she wants. Is that security?

Right?

Because it's not like she's gonna go take the money. She already got all the money. She can go buy whatever the fuck she wants. So she's not like she's gonna sneak into the safe and take an extra hundred dollars out every day. I'm like, you already buy whatever the fuck you want. So, like, that's. But that mindset of, for me was so limiting.

But you had to trust her, and.

I had to try, and I had to trust her. But how did I trust her? I had to do it. I had to do it. And so there's that fear where, like, as I'm living in fear, holding on, squeezing the, you know, life out of this thing, I'm playing small. She knows it. She feels it. She sees it, she senses it. And so then there's just this vicious circle. You know what I mean? And there's this idea of who goes first. You know, how do you go first? And then I'm gonna go first. I just made the choice. Like, I'm all in. Here's what it is. Go. Here's. Here's everything. You could legitimately take everything. But will you. Why would you. You know what I mean? And it's like, I think when you get to that level of connection, it's the most liberating for you. They know it's what men want. This is like, you know this, and I know this. In talking to thousands and thousands and thousands of men. Men want to be free, man. They want that ability, right? But we live in such fear of what if, what if, what if, what if? And we project that right onto her, right? Which then causes that mama bear to, like, oh, I'm not really sure.

So you retract. It's like, okay, then we're not. If you're. If. If I'm getting vibes that you're unsettled, then I'm gonna be unsettled.

When she's unsettled, we're not. And we're not. Then I'm getting mad, and then I'm getting mad, and it's just this.

This constant cycle continues to wind and unwind itself until you just blow up.

Like, so then what's the tipping point? What's. What's the thing that happens? Do we get divorced? Does something blow up? Do you go and cheat? Do I go and cheat? Like, where do we disconnect? You know what I'm saying? But, dude, it's. It's like, the thing that's crazy, too, isn't. We weren't programmed with any of this. Nobody led any of these conversations. I've never heard these conversations. Like, I'd never read the book about it. It's always like, yeah, just tell your partner the truth. We know that stuff. But how. What does that even mean? You know what I Mean, I think that's why these conversations are really powerful, like, for us, because we're having them and we've chosen to have them publicly. We've chosen to have them. Like, you know, like, this podcast and the whole thing. I think it's been really cool seeing people really understand this, because I didn't have this growing up. I know you didn't have this growing up.

Nobody gave.

Nobody led this conversation.

There was no tools. Like, even the culture. We were all raised in, it. It was just like, feminine, masculine, do what you're. You know, like, just shut your mouth. Like, this is how it should be. Like, persevere. I hate that so bad. Like, persevere to the end. I'm like, why?

Yeah, that sucks.

That sounds like. Like, I love my parents, but I'm like, oh, they're really persevering.

Endure the end.

Yeah, like, endure the end. Do they even like each other? I don't even know. Like, and I'm like. I mean, like I said, I love my parents. They've been together forever, but I'm like, but are you happy?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you. It's not too late. Like, I know they're in their 70s, and I'm like, it's like, not. Not too late. They've almost, like, thrown in the towel, though. They're like, it's fine. We're together. It is what it is.

So we have. We have. This is like, chapter one of this podcast. Chapter two of this podcast will actually be found on the Sean and Sack Show.

Yeah.

Which is going to be in the second part of this recording, which first part right here with D. Wife Experience. And here at Date Wife, we actually brought one of our daughters on the show. Hey, Charlie, can you say something?

Say, hi, guys. Say it in here. Say, hi, guys.

Hi, daddy.

Say I'm Charlie. Oh, got a little drool, Charlie. Say, I'm two until it's your birthday.

Huh?

Turning two years old. And like, tomorrow.

Friday.

Friday, the best.

Dude, five kids. So here's the deal. We're gonna wrap up this episode, and again, you want to catch part two of this, you head over to the Shown and Sack show. This is. Is that where they go?

Like, the actual.

Like, that's what look up in podcast. Okay, Is you guys have, like, a website or anything else along with it, or is it just Sean and Sack Shows podcast?

We have a website. We just haven't gotten around to building it yet.

Okay, good. Website still in the ethos, but you can pick it up on any podcast directories. Also, along here with everything that's going on with Warrior and what's happening with date your wife, everything with the date you have experience. We tested here in 2023 rolled out. Magnificent. We're bringing that back out in 20 to gain access to that as well as all of the rest of the curriculum of the Warriors Way, as well as access to the Warrior app for free on a 30 day draw. You can check that out by going to warriorlaunch.com yes, you can test run the DWI experience with your wife or husband this year and give it a run test for a month with this. Come play, come run, and if it makes sense for you to stick and stay, we'd love to have you again. You can check that today. Today and get a free trial@warrior launch.com now. Sean Sachs, thank you for coming to our home. Thank you for coming and staying in our home and thanks for the wild night last night.

You guys are crazy. Still recovering. Can I, can I just say, I'm like, I'm only drinking one drink. Four drinks later, I'm like, damn it.

We did two cigar evening. It was two cigar evenings are good evenings.

It was a good. It was a great night.

That was a great night.

It was fun.

Sax Final thoughts as we wrap up this episode.

I'm just really grateful that you guys are doing what you're doing and really promoting marriage and the vulnerability and the hard shit and the good shit and the raising kids, because I feel like that's not cool. It's not cool anymore, right? Yeah. And I love it. I feel like we're rebels for being conventional and loving to be married and have children and do those things. So I just, I'm grateful for you guys. So keep showing up.

Thank you. Thank you. And we love that you guys are proven a new model because there's an entire generation of couples coming out in their 40s, late 30s, trying to figure out post divorce how to make this game work. Danielle and I had come from, we were talking about this last night. Just the different cocktail of. We managed to like still nearly an impossible game for us to have pulled it off at the multiple checkpoints of divorce over the last 22 years. And but this energy different here. You guys have figured out how to put this together as like couples who have gone through divorce and have now found each other. Which is, I mean, dude, I don't know, is probably half or more of the marriages that are happening at all right now are people who were in previous marriages divorced now dating. Because I see it happening Even like the 10 guys I work with, one on one, six of them currently going through divorce process, all of them in their 40s or early 50s. I'm like, this is like a real issue and a thing. So dating and being able to find you guys show proof that it is possible not only to have the game reset, but have it even reset at a better and more powerful or more potent way than ever before, for sure. Beautiful. All right, well, that brings this show to a close date. Your wife is officially done. We'll see you here next week. Again, check it out warriorlaunch.com for all of what we talk about here. Warrior again, Test drive for 30 days with us on that, as well as the date wife experience call along with that. Go check out the Sean and Sack show on podcast on itunes. If you're not familiar. Sean and lions, not sheep. We can check him out. Sean Whalen on Instagram and all of the Once you're in his world, you will see quickly, you will see quickly that you'll be sucked into the vortex. And next you know, he'd be wearing T shirts. Support Trump. Just how it goes. All right, guys, have a great one. We'll see you here next week on the Date UI podcast.