Unlocking Intimacy: How Vulnerability and Honest Communication Can Transform Your Marriage

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Date your wife podcast. I just really want to say that I am glad that I pushed for this podcast and kept it consistent, because it's really fun to have communication with you, but it's really fun to have guests inside of our home. We recently started having guests on the date right podcast, the beginning of this year. And it's been a great way to get to know people's stories and to understand that, like, we're in this show together. We're not doing it alone. We have Whitney and Kyle Carnahan, and I really wanted to have you guys on the show today because you are as crazy as us in the sense that you have lots of kids. You guys have four or five.

Five.

Yeah, five kids. I forgot. I was like, you ask me, and I forget all that.

You know, there's too many.

But, yeah, dogs.

No, no.

Dogs, cats.

We have a guinea pig. That's about it.

No one feeds it.

No.

It's starving to death.

It smells like poop.

It's disgusting.

It squeals all day long.

Bad decision.

Every once in a while, someone will give it a carrot.

We've done.

We've had. We had many guinea pigs. So let me tell you one guinea pig story quickly. So we had two guinea pigs in our La Dare ranch house, and we also had Winnie dogs. And we had our guinea pigs in the cage. You can hear where this is going. We go on date night, babysitter puts the babies to bed. We come home, and there's. There's the little chips that are clear up by the front door. And I'm like, how are the chips at the front door? I don't understand what's happening. Who's making a mess around here? Then I come walking up, dead guinea pig number one, dead guinea pig number two, dead guinea pig number three. And our wiener dogs are sitting on the top of the couch going, oh, yeah, we. Those guys.

Like, traumatized.

No, we cleaned it up. And then in the morning, we're like, how do we have this conversation? Like, it was so scary. I was like, I would not want them to see. But the funny thing is not. This isn't funny. It actually happened a second time.

We had two.

They got eaten.

So. No, we did the same thing again. We had a pit bull.

Oh, yes, I remember this.

We decided to get a pit bull.

And guinea pigs again at the same time. And the same thing happened.

That's right.

So then we were smarter, and we got a bunny.

Oh, yeah. And then the pit bull sitting in the living room when the bunny is on my mother in law's lap and the pit bull decides she's done with this, they're done with this bunny.

Oh, my God.

So she runs across the living room, jumps up on my mother in law, gets the bunny by the neck, jumps off the couch. I'm grabbing the dog, prying her mouth open and reaches, punching her in the head. Don't kill the bunny in front of the kids. Now, of course this bunny.

The bunny lived.

No, this bunny died.

No, the bunny died.

This bunny died in the cage outside about a month later. We do not get rodents anywhere. We're killers.

We are not animal abusers. Please don ill will of us. We just have kids, and kids want weird animals. So.

And if you do want to talk, please tag me or do a collaboration so I can get more traffic because your talking helps me plug.

So anyway, I'm learning.

And you know what? We. We. We were gonna get a dog, but then we just decided to have a daughter and name her dog's name Marley.

There you go. Your daughter's name's Marley.

When the kids say we get a dog, I go, you already have a dog.

You're welcome.

Don't call your dog.

She's a cute little. She's our cute little pet.

She's gonna be older.

She's way better. I know.

I'm like, watch what you say.

That's all right. You say whatever.

She's our favorite.

All right, so here's the deal. Kyle and superhuman fathers. Whitney runs Warrior Mom's Fitness, which became Warrior woman to mom. And she's evolving. We have two people here who have hit sexual explosion.

You have to start with sex. Good job, babe.

I'm sweating already.

Okay, well, that's where we're going to start, because that's where we start every show. Because everyone only comes for the show for sex. They do. Did I just unplug us? No. Okay, good. So we're gonna start on the sex topic. But to start on the sex topic, we have to talk about what was. So, Whitney, talk to us about what was your relationship sexually?

Right here, first minute in what was.

Gosh, I'm excited about this conversation.

Give a little backstory. Okay, so you were married young.

Yes, I was married at 19. Kyle was 22. Just barely. And we didn't really know anything about sex. Nobody tells you these things. You go from zero to home run, and you don't really have any time to play the bases, so to speak.

But you guys were.

Which was traumatized the Mormon I had.

Never seen a vagina before you got married?

No, I was.

Never seen one.

Like, literally.

No, nothing. Never seen.

First vagina you saw was Whitney's?

Yes. I don't know if that's good or bad.

I didn't know where you put it. Was it no button?

Do you remember? You were. I was on the bed, and I was like, let's go. And you were in the bathroom on our honeymoon and were, like, terrified to come out. Like, terrified.

I just wanted to play with some titties for a while.

I didn't.

Then she just went all the way. I was like, this is too much.

You're married.

I know, but I'm like, let's just. Let's just break the seal. Let's just go.

I was like, oh, did you lose.

It in the bathroom? Just walking out?

Like, yeah. Like seven times just seeing her. But I was. I was, like, trying to figure out what that was.

Where you guys meet?

Where.

What state are you?

California.

Okay.

Just San Diego. Okay.

No. So this is prior to social media exposure, yet your boys have definitely had a little exposure to the vaginas.

I mean, I've already picked out their favorite.

Oh, my God. So let's get back on track.

One thing real quick.

So I want. I want the record to be clear that I had to dodge a lot of pussy when I was in high school. Okay.

It wasn't like he wasn't offered any.

So I was just telling this.

Thank you for clearing that up. Our audience, they were on pins and needles.

I know.

They're like, well, I'm some kind of nerd. I was in a punk band. I was a skateboard. I was around the. The gnarliest kids. And I was telling the story to my group today because they were talking about holding the line and flesh versus spirit. And there was this. After one of our punk shows, they were trying to get these two twins in the room with me. And I told him I was going on a mission. I go put those chicks in my room, and you'll find their dead bodies. Don't put them in my room.

Dark. I understand it because I came from the same frame.

Yeah.

Like, I. When I was playing arena football, like, they would got. The guys thought it was funny. They would get girls, bring them home from the bar, and I'd be back in bed already because they were all partying after games, and they'd bring them back and put. They send girls into my room to get into my bed. And I would get, like, violent. Yes. I'd be like, you need to get the fuck out of my room now. Only I probably said, you need to get the patch.

Get the freak. Gosh darn freak out of my room. Darn it.

Okay, so this is a container we're coming from. The Mormon container.

Yes.

Which Danielle and I are. We Both get it 100%. We broke out and we're so happy you two broke out.

You know, there's freedom, guys.

Yes. Okay, so now we come back. So how would you describe knowing that this was our pre frame? I mean, it sure probably wasn't real inspiring for you.

Oh my gosh, no. It was a rough couple months for sure. And turned into a couple decades of similar sexual fear.

Trying to figure out what we do with these things.

Well, just not just kind of just going just normal and not being experimental. Not trying anything new. Just okay, this works. We've had five kids. We'll just keep running the play. It seems to work. Not realizing that there was more connection and that we were actually disconnected in so many ways. We were doing it, but we weren't getting the connection that we desired.

I wanted something that I just never got and I didn't even know what it was that I was.

Yeah, but I think that is important to talk about because I think in religious upbringings, places where people get married young, things like that, it, it, it is. It's like you just have sex. Cause you're told to have sex, but you don't really understand that sex is a tool. And it's a very beautiful tool. It's a God given tool. And so you're like just literally having sex. Cause you're like, well it's Tuesday and you're not even like having fun with it. And so it's just like, hey, well we both should have sex because that's what we're supposed to do when we get married, you know. And if you go long periods of time, it disconnects you. Even if sex isn't great, it's. It still is a bonding piece, but it can be so much more. So I think it's important for couples to understand. Like if you're. We. We did a, we did a podcast with one of the Orange county housewives and she was saying the same thing. She had five kids, got married young, was with this guy and she's like, we were having sex all the time. She's like, but it wasn't good sex. Yeah, she didn't know. She went, she divorced him and went. And now she's with this other guy and she's like, holy shit, this is, this is what I was missing.

You know, we have family members like that and friends raised in the Mormon faith. The women have been sexually active in marriage for 10 to 15 years, have not one time had an organization. Didn't even know what that was like. And the guys didn't know even how to deliver it. I mean, dude, I was sitting in college in my first marriage and the guys above us were doctors, they were in medical school. And we were sitting there above it. And my ex wife and I went up to talk and he's opening up the medical book and he's explaining a clitoris. And I'm like, I might have been doing this wrong. Which is crazy because people hear it now and look at us now and they have a narrative of what I was like when I was younger. But no, dude, I was younger. I was terrified. I ran away from girls. Okay, so it became. What though? You have a description for this? I love the description. What you call this type of sex? Go for it.

I call this type of sex pincushion sex where legs are open. Pump it. Done. All right, good for you. Let's go to bed. And I didn't know, this is so embarrassing. But I didn't know that a woman could orgasm and have really a good time in sex. I just thought I was giving the service to my husband and taking care of his needs. He's got a get. Go to sleep. It's like the sleeping pill. And that was kind of.

It better than the right handed sleeping pill.

It is much better than the right handed sleeping pill. And it becomes this desperate situation. I mean, we meet so many Christian orthodox raised people, not just Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Southern Baptist, non denominational, where they're just raised with no knowledge whatsoever. And they get married and it's a shit show. And then the only education is porn.

Well, it's weird because it's taught like sex is taught like fear and guilt based, right? So then even you're married and you're like, I guess this is how it is. And you would almost feel guilty for like getting kinky or naughty or whatever. You're like, I can't do that. That's like not spiritual. That's. It's actually the exact opposite, right? So there's this, there's this weird game, shame and guilt. And so women are just like, okay with pincushion sex. So it's like, okay. But then at one point are you like, I want more for me or.

Well, this is, this is where we want to be. Let's talk about that. Like, how did we make the shift?

Yeah, because it's like Garrett and I had like, you know, rough sex for like ever. It was just like non connecting. It was. It was good.

It wasn't rough.

I mean, it was.

Now it's rough. It was not rough.

It was rough in a bad way.

Rough in a good way.

We weren't emotionally rough.

Not emotionally.

I would say we had a little better than pin cushion sex, but it still wasn't like, like amazing. And it was. It gotten to this place where like, we were really disconnected. And he's like, I just want great sex. And we're sitting in therapy one day too. And I was like, what makes you think I don't want great sex? And. And I was like, I just don't want to have sex with you because we're in a really like, scary spot, you know, so it's like, when did you realize that you wanted to open up for yourself?

Oh, when was that?

Three weeks ago.

It was literally very recent. I mean, three weeks ago, like the, like a month.

But you've been working.

I've been working on this releasing like.

Like a little bit for a couple of years. A lot for the last year.

Yes.

And it's just hockey. Sticking. All the work that you've done is starting to hockey.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's been like more intention and desire for all of that instead of just, you know, play his needs and. And communicate more with what I wanted. But really, honestly, it was like a month ago I got this tattoo.

You had some really wild sex a month ago, didn't you?

It was wild.

I didn't even know who she was, what that was.

Yes.

Well, well, every man, when he's a little boy, dreams about a woman that he can fall in love with and want him. And I didn't realize that I wasn't even close to having that. I'd always look at Whitney and try to get in there, like in her eyes. Soul.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I couldn't get in. And I thought, what's wrong with me? And for. And there was a time when I remember I was, dude, I did not look at porn or jerk off until I was married for like five years. So at some point I was seeking for something. Like, what is where I thought it was going to be here. Where's this thing? And so I started like going on the computer and like starting to feel this thing that I've never felt before. Looking at like the softest porn.

Ever.

You know where I was like, wow. Is that how they're supposed to look at you? Those eyes?

Do you know, that's why women don't get this. This is why men are so drawn to porn. They're drawn to it because of the look. These women, they want it.

It's not like checklist sex. It's like they want to please them. They want to be in that situation. You know what I mean?

That's why most guys. Some of the most favorite porn that men will watch across the board is a woman blowing him, looking up at him. As weird as this sounds, it's not even the blowjob. It's the physical, because he feels wanted. He was like, this woman's devouring me. I want this. That's the thing. Porn is such an attraction to men. Not because of physical. Because of the sense of being desired by a woman this way.

I do think that women, they definitely hold the sex card. You know what I mean? And there was a piece in our marriage where I was like, I'm tired of holding the sex card. But I had to release it in myself. Right. If I'm in control of this, I have to be the one that opens up more, and then. Then he's able to feel seen and feel connected and that kind of thing. But how much did bikini competitions help you, like, feel a little more like.

It was interesting? It was some days. Yes. And then some days I had more of a complex about my body.

Yeah.

And so I felt almost more insecure. Like, if I was at my leanest, I was like, check me out.

Yeah. Yeah.

But when I was like, you know, putting on weight after season or whatever, I'd be like, don't touch me. Like, oh, God, that's fat right there. Like, so it was kind of. It was a fuckery for a while, but. So the biggest thing, though, I've realized, is him communicating more with me and realizing that my lack of connection and intimacy and desire in him was because I was still holding onto so much resentment. And so it was like a subconscious punishment that I was doing that I didn't realize I was doing until I really started stacking and processing myself more and going, holy shit, this is your fault that you're not getting the emotional connection because you haven't allowed yourself to drop the wall.

Yeah.

That was like a big aha. Moment for me, was like, you gotta let it go.

And I'm inherently kind of an asshole.

Just.

Okay, I can do that too.

Yeah.

So that builds up.

Yeah.

Treats us like employees. And coaches a lot more.

We always joke around. You guys are like. You're just like. We see what you're going through, and.

We'Re like, you were like our twins.

Yeah.

I'm like, we're just hoping to accelerate you in like, a year. What took us 10.

Yeah, exactly.

So get ready. Cause this is just the beginning. The crazy stuff that's coming.

Yeah.

Okay, so you make a switch. You made a decision. Danielle made a decision. That's the crazy part that a lot of the women are like, oh, my wife just. No, These women have to make a decision to shift. The guy can only do so much. So even teach a guy game at some point. The woman has to be.

The woman has to be comfortable with herself and her body. And that comes with reps. Like, you see, everyone's like, sex is natural. Sex is not natural. I'm like, chemistry is natural, but to get good at sex, you have to have reps. And to get good at. To really get good at sex and having reps, it's not missionary style. It's like having fun and playing around and doing all things. And so it's like, for me, I was like, okay, I want to, like, let myself free. And I was like, okay, like, I have to be, like, more flirty in the bedroom. I have to be like, I have to own him in the bedroom. You know? And so there's this, like, piece where women say, that's not me. That's not my personality. I'm like, well, because you're not. You're not taught that. You shamed it and said, that's not me. I can't do that because you feel guilty. So you have to make a conscious effort to be like, hey, this is really uncomfortable, but I'm going to walk around naked, or I'm going to. Going to go on vacation on. First thing I'm going to do is jump on my husband. You know, and things like that. And then it becomes more natural. And what happens is it becomes a very powerful tool as you gain certainty in yourself and. And your. And your sexuality. You're like, holy shit, I own this man. You know? And he likes that in turn.

Okay, so you flipped the inner slut switch before we. So I say that, and people get so triggered. I'm like, no, no. Every man wants his wife to be amazing, beautiful, and a slut. And people have looked at the word slut as, like, bad. It just means a woman who likes that.

You say inner stripper.

Yeah, strippers.

I like inner stripper.

She has more Power.

Like, slut sounds like a little dirty, but, like, I like inner stripper, which.

Really translates to slut. And that's what guys like.

Yeah, I'm gonna go with inner stripper.

Strippers are slut. And that's okay. It's not. But here's the thing.

Look at all the profession, okay?

We're professionals, okay?

Sluts don't get paid probably, like.

Well, high end sluts get paid very well.

I get paid real well, thank you.

Well, listen, I had somebody say that me and Kyle are actually the most expensive form of prostitution ever. Oh, yeah, Married men who buy all these things for our wives. And if you add the money up, you're like, that is exactly $14,322 per orgasm. You know what I could do in Vegas?

At least we know our value.

Okay, so let's go back to switch. Whitney, when does the switch happen for you? Because here's the deal. In our world, everyone that knows you, when you walked in, when you two walked, I actually saw a picture of you two at the. At a. At the. The Ascent Brotherhood party.

Oh, yes.

And I saw you two. I don't know who captured that picture, you two, but I was like, oh, no, it's on. It's finally fucking on with those two. I was like, just the energy. And it wasn't even. It wasn't like you guys were all covered up. It wasn't like some half naked photo shoot. It was just somebody captured a photo of you kissing. And I remember seeing that photo and going, it's happened. It happened. The switch happened. Come talk to us. I wanted to know about this switch.

Yeah, it's finally letting Kyle in. And for me, it was really just opening my heart up completely, and I didn't realize how long I have put him. I remember you saying this to me. Was it when we did our mdma, where you're like, I just want to get close to you, but my heart is always guarded. And it's like, it's.

It's childhood, I don't know, mechanism for women.

Yes. And so I was finally like, no, I have to let him in, because I'm just punishing myself.

Yeah.

And so I was like, all right, let's just. I. I said, like, my whole, like, phrase to myself is just be free. And so I'm like, where can I be free? Okay, Be free sexually. Let's go. What does this look like? Be free in how I talk. Be free in how I feel and how I move my body and, like, take ownership, finally of me. And so when you said the stripper part, it was yes, but it was me going, I want you to do this to me. This is what I like. This is what I don't like. And I kind of started dominating sex for the first time, where I was always more of the submissive one. And I was like, nope, I'm going to go into this position. And I kind of just was finally communicating. Good. He's getting sweaty.

No, he's mesmerized. It's still been four weeks, so he's asking for the casita right after the show. And you got it. We've had many powerful couples christened the casita. It's clean and ready for you.

It's a.

It is true. I believe the woman, like, plays the lead role. A lot of times, like, we have this, like, fantasy of a guy, like, taking us, but really, if they come in, they're too aggressive. We're like, what the hell? Ease into it, buddy. Like, there's been so many times where Garrett's come in, like, really hot and handed. I'm like, whoa. Like, come on. Like, like, gentle. But if we come hot and handed with them, they're like, okay, we're doing this.

No reservation.

First night, we were on the date, and you were pissed off at me for some reason. I think it was just resentment over 21 years hate. And. And she started slapping me in the face and punching.

We were making out, and I was like, I just want to hit you. And he's like, okay.

She's like, I'm sorry. I don't know what's coming into me.

I'm.

No, no, no, no, no. Keep doing that. She's just like, whack. And I'm like, yes.

And then it was like, oh, I have.

She's like, wait, I can do that. I was like, yes, please do that.

Yeah. And while you're doing that, you can continue with the rest of it.

Exactly.

Yes.

Yes. And it was kind of like this, the opening. It's like, oh, I have freedom. Yeah.

So it was a slap in the face. Were you guys having sex during the slap?

We were making out, getting ready. It was going that way. So he knew something good was coming of it.

Every man knows when his wife slaps him, he says something good is coming. When it's a slap with a little boy.

I mean, as long as she's topless and then smacks you, you know where it's gonna go.

I was like, is this.

That's it.

I have strange feelings. This could be considered abuse. And yet I like it.

Please choke me back.

BDSM is in your future. Building the sex room next month.

Sex room? Yes. Oh, my gosh. Sorry, kids. We got to take one of your rooms.

I mean, is there a way we could get maybe, like, a tool that you could hit me with? I mean, just some thoughts that I have. I don't know.

Here's.

Here's.

The most important thing is that now you're. You're like, hey, I'm open, right as before. So it's not even about the slapping or this and that you're just, like. You're both now open. You're like, hey, this is fun. Let's try that, you know?

Yes.

And then it also builds, like, some kind of, like, trust because you're like, we did that together.

Like, ooh, like, we're breaking free together. Yes.

Well, I mean. And, like, we were like, okay, well, let's create an environment that's different. And so we. We did it overnight. And you were vibing. You were just. She was glowing and vibing, and I was, like, couldn't stop staring at her.

Yeah, this is right.

And we get to this. To this hotel just real close to our house, and went at dinner, and we don't drink. And we were like, we don't drink.

You said that with such certainty.

Well, we just don't.

I know. I know.

We just never have. And we're like.

It's just never really been a desire of ours.

Get a few drinks.

She's like, it's like, we're in.

So it's kind of like it was.

Like, another naughty thing. So now we, like, broke free from sex, and we're like.

We're 15 years old, you know?

I know. We're like. But we're doing it all together for the first time, which is kind of funny.

You guys, like, raised each other. You got married so young. We always say this all the time. I'm like, we literally were, like, kids, and we kind of, like, raised each other. And so it's like, it's. It's fun if you can go through these experiences together, because so many people get to this point where they're unwilling to, like, rediscover, discover themselves, and so they call it quits. They're like, well, sex was just bad. And you're like, well. And so then they go with somebody else, and all of a sudden, they're free and open and this and that. And you're like, you can recreate it in your relationship. And for Garrett and I, it's interesting because it's like you guys have five kids. Why would you throw that history away? Why wouldn't you give it a chance to go to get free together?

Totally.

Because the wild part is this. If you two got divorced, I'm not saying you were ever going to in that place, but if you did, here's the facts. At your age, at your age right now, within months you'd find a man and you'd do exactly what you're doing. And within months, he'd find women and he'd do exactly what he wanted. And this is happening everywhere, which is couples are hitting this break point. They love each other so much, they're not sure how to get this wall to go down. And they both with a knowing in their souls, know that part of this experience in life is to experience this type of sex. So the walls are so thick between that it becomes easier to. This is just a tear down. We'll rebuild the house. Seems easier to just tear the house.

Down because it's so uncomfor.

We'll be great co parents and we'll just build a new house and then I can be my new self.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

In this new house, I can be a new self and then I can be all these things that I wasn't with my spouse. Yeah. So it's huge what you two have pulled off. And just watching you two together at one of our events was like, so everybody was talking about you too. There's like, Whitney is on fire and Kyle is on fire. These two are like two dancing flames that cannot stop touching each other right now. And we loved it. Some of the guys that hadn't been a warrior for like 9 months, 10 months had, were like uncomfortable because they were like, coach, I've never experienced like a warrior event with sexual energy. And I was like, welcome to the new warrior. All these women broke at the same time.

We're all breaking free. Watch out.

Okay, so part of this process with like sex and anything with is honesty. Yeah, Kyle, talk about, talk about just the honesty factor that's come up for you guys in the last couple years just how much more honest and what the impact has been on sex, but just on life with you too.

Well, there's the first ripping off of the band aid when you first realize that you're a liar. And when, when most people hear this like, what are you lying about? They're like, nothing, I'm, I'm an honest man bullshit. But you can't see it until you start digging. We start getting in the stacks, and. And I start seeing it in myself. And then I'm like. Once I see it, like, I'm a fucking liar, what else is fake about me? What other masks am I wearing? And I start peeling those layers off. And then I'm like, oh, Whitney's gotta see this. Like, what's going on in her? And I wanted to see what was underneath this mask, because I was like, everybody's got a mask. We all got these layers. So then I invite her to that warrior trainer event. She almost didn't come. And then she had that just absolute awakening and that experience where she was able to see things in her that she's never even thought of or given herself permission to actually have an opinion. And that was the beginning of us starting to share truths. She started stacking. Every day, I was stacking. We started sharing them with each other, and we started sharing the love and the hate both, and then learning how to accept the hate without reacting, but feeling the pain. Like when she was sending me some of these stacks, I'm hurt, but I'm like, okay, that's. That's supposed to feel like that. I just got to let that sit and understand, and I share mine. And then all of a sudden, through that process, each time, we'd get a little closer, and then we would have a blowout and then fight, and then come a little closer and then have another blowout fight, come a little closer. But it was risky, it was painful, it was chaotic, and that was. We realized that's the only way it works, which is crazy to us. Like, knowing it now, it makes sense.

But back then, everything was safe before.

Yeah.

Yeah. Fighting's bad.

Yeah. Yeah.

We don't say that.

Yeah, arguing's bad. Wrong. It's. It's required.

Yeah, those stacking. A lot of people may not know what stacking is. Whitney, talk to us about what stacking is so they know what this world of warrior is that we play in.

Yeah, stacking.

Stacking.

To you, stacking is. I explain it as like a prompted journal entry where it's questions that help you think beyond what you're naturally kind of at. So questions of finding, really, the getting past the feelings and finding the actual facts behind the story that you're creating in your head. Because a lot of times the feelings get really elevated, especially in me. Like, I can. I can put up feelings and put up walls very fast, but I don't take the time necessarily to find the facts and find the root. And so it just becomes petty shit. And so Finding all the reasons behind the feelings that I've been feeling and taking ownership finally was allowing me to see myself in ways that I didn't want to and then opening my heart up to see him in the ways that I need to. But I've been so resistant in. So that's been so huge for us is just cutting through the. Oh, you shouldn't say that. Don't do that. Just, it's fine, Everything's fine. Just be numb. It's okay. Get through it. Be a good wife. It was like, no, like, I'm going to get real and I'm going to find me and I'm going to help him find him and we're going to come together. The stacking is just. It's the wall breaking, really, of your.

How did that help? Like, because a lot of times, like, having these conversations are filled with so many triggers, right? So we've watched couples take stacking on and share their truth in a way that is accountable and also at the same. Because it holds you accountable in the stack to your truth and owning your shit in it, not just being able to vomit yours. How much did that help, being able to share those. How much did that open up conversation for you that you're having now that you couldn't have like two years ago, for sure.

Well, because when you read especially like a rage stack or angry stack, you get. You're reading it and you're all offended and pissed and you're going through the emotions, but then it kind of resolves itself at the bottom when you're reading your spouse's idea of taking responsibility for.

Her for their piece and what do they really want?

And so then it opens up like a safer conversation after it's done. Whereas if it was just. And I mean, we've done that too, where, I mean, Whitney rage stacks me on the regular without writing just to my face. But if I see it that way, then I'm like, okay, we'll get through it.

Just gotta purge a little bit.

Write it on me. Just write the rage stack on me. Get that poison out. I've just been starting to see it when I'd normally be reactive and be like, oh, hold on. Like, all right, yeah, you're cute when you're spicy.

But the reps of writing it though, and having that time to yourself and just to allow yourself to process yourself. Nobody does that. And so then we share ours in the morning. And so I feel like when we finally get time to talk among all the kids and all the other distractions we have. I have kind of a little summary of how he's actually doing instead of just, how was your day? Good. Okay, cool. High five. We got to do this. We got to do this. And you're kind of in distraction mode and you're not really connecting. So the stacking just allows you, when you are talking, to actually have something worthwhile to talk about where it's not just surface.

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You said, like, I feel like when men have, like, you and Garrett have very, like, high reactivity. Right. So what happens for women like us is then our reactivity is like, we meet you with our alpha and then it's like, you want this sweet doting wife, but then you're super, like, reactive. And so we act like, closed off or even. Like what?

Like it's either or.

Yeah, it's either we close. We shut down, close off because we're like, I don't really want to fight right now. Or we'll come at you like a dude. We're like, you're going to come at me like a dude? I'm going to come back at somebody, dude. Yeah. And, and, and ultimately, like, we're like, we want to be soft and feminine, but we have to feel safe in, in. In doing so.

Yeah.

And so it's like having. I'm sure you're with you guys too. Does that help when you stack before you, like, have a conversation and help with reactivity?

For sure.

Oh, yeah. Because there's more clarity now. I feel like where a lot of times when you go into a fighter, you know, there's, there's, There isn't clarity. It's just like projection and blame and you're just trying to hurt the other person, trying to win. And so that has helped us to like, really Come. And, yes, we have to collide. That's necessary. But the repair, like, we're both in it to have the repair, not just to be dominant.

We're almost, like, competing now to see who could be the most calm, because.

That'S the ultimate power move, right?

So we also. We understand now, like, the control of emotional reactions. You're in the power seat, so we're both, like, going calmer. I'm calmer than you.

And then when you're spazzing, I'm, like, smirking, like, I'm winning.

And then I get embarrassed. I'm like, I'm reactive.

Huh?

You're like, I don't know. I mean, possibly.

It's crazy that you say that because, like, he lately has been. I'm like, you're so controlled. It's so mature, and it's so sexy. I was like. And I'm like, you're not. Like, when he's less reactive, then I'm like, oh. Then I feel like I can be more, like, safe in what he wants in turn, you know?

Yes.

You literally said that a few days ago.

I said that today. I was like, I love this version that you're showing up with. You're very, like, calm and strategic. I know you can go to war, but I need you to be strategic with your strikes. And so with me, he's been like, way. Just like. It's this level of maturity that is just so sexy. I'm like, oh, okay.

Finally we got here.

Yeah. I was finally 48 years old.

We're here, babe.

You know? But here's the deal. This is why so many women in their 20s and 30s are married dudes.

Because these guys are like, you're cute. And we've done this.

These dudes have already gone the game. They've already played the fucking charade. They've been married once or twice. They've gone through the chaos. They've established a company. They have the money, so they can sit there and just go, you're cute. So keep telling me more. You're turning me on. But I'm not going to respond to anything you're saying. I literally own you. That was my ex and her husband. They were here for dinner with us when they first moved here at Orange County. Number, like, two years ago or something. And he sold one of his companies, like, $300 million. Very successful. He's 26 years older than her. They've been together for 18 years. 17 years. And I go, dude, like. Because she has changed a little bit. Not like a Lot. A little bit. And I really like her as a person. I think she's great. She's not my person, but he and her are, like, perfect. And I asked him. I was like, so how do you. How do you deal with this? He's like, oh, she's just cute. I was like, so do you get, like, irritated away?

He's like, nah, she's kind of, like, spicy, and, like, she's real spicy.

And he's just like.

That's why him and Gary. Her and Gary didn't work out.

Yeah.

Too much spice going on.

Too much spice. He's like, his internal spice.

But what's interesting, you guys are similar to us because I can be spicy, but really, I'm like, I'm. I don't want to fight. Like, I think I avoid conflict, but in me doing that for so many years and not being honest with what I wanted, I was like, my soul is literally dying. Like, I'm just pretending like, it's okay. I'm like, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm taking on all this weight, and, like, I'm just at this point where I'm like, I'm going to explode at some point.

Yes.

You know, and you get to this point where it's so painful. You're like, okay, now I have to be honest. But how do I tell him, like, these and. And how do I even describe why I'm not happy? I'm hitting the checklist. I should.

It's literally on paper. It looks great.

Yeah. And you literally, for me, and I don't know if this is for you. I was like, I don't even know how to be honest. I just know I'm hurting. Right. So for a lot of people who are listening to the show, it's like, well, I think I'm being honest. Sometimes it's just, like, communicating that all of a sudden, the honesty comes out of what you really want, and you didn't even know you're missing it.

Yeah.

One of the things we've just been saying a lot, even to the. To the couples we coach is like, the feelings that your spouse has is the truth instead of. Because so much times are like, I don't feel like you see me, and I don't feel connected. And you're like, what? We hang out all the time.

Yeah.

What do you mean you don't feel connected? This is stupid. And then it's like, okay, cool. You don't. You don't want to listen to me, and I'm not validated. Awesome. I'll just not have sex with you ever again.

Closed off. But it does. It does come from a true place. Otherwise they wouldn't say it. Can it be elevated? Can it be a little bit more dramatized?

Doesn't matter.

Yeah.

So that's what I've been doing with you and you've been doing that with me is you're just listening to my feelings and being like. You can think. Like, a lot of times I'm thinking like, wow, that's really insane. And I'm like, it's true. It's true.

There's truth.

We've had the same moments where Danielle will share her truth. Me. Or I'll share mine with her. And both of us are immediately go. Have gone to the checklist of like, how could you be feeling that? What the fuck are you talking about? I do all these things. Yeah. Because we were feeling. That was us, like, almost two years ago. Like, there was just connection. Was.

It's like, why? Like, a couple years ago, I came to him and I'm like, I just don't feel connected. Like there's something missing. And he's like this. He's like, you, your house, your cars. He's like, you're the every. He's like, I'm taking you on date nights and trips and diamonds. And I'm like, I know. I don't even know how to tell you this, but, like, it's not enough. And I was. But I literally was like, you can. We. You can let all the cars and all the house go. I'm like, I don't give a shit. I could. We could rebuild that. But what I'm unwilling to tolerate is lack of connection with us because I'm dying inside. And so when we had this conversation, it was just like, it's probably like a. For a powerful man to have that conversation with him. He's like, it's like this macho thing where you can have your ego and be like, yeah. And be like, whatever, I'm the man. If you don't like it, find somebody else.

Yes.

And that's so scary for women because we are. We are like, we want you to be this provider, and we have your kids and all this thing. And we're like, but we need more. But if I say this, are we replaceable? Especially as you get older? Because you're like, well, now I'm older, now I have kids, and he's the provider. So I'm just going to keep my mouth shut because I'm replaceable now because my clock is ticking.

Shit.

So a lot of women get to that space, and so they're scared, to be honest.

Yeah.

There's too much to lose.

Yeah.

And this is why, like, so many couples, it's like, that's why the switch is both in the guy, but the switch is also in the woman. Yes, but we know a lot of guys that we train between superhuman fathers. Wake up, warrior. So many movements where the guys are doing their best and the women are not flipping the switch. And here's the thing that's crazy about being a guy. And I've said this to you many, many times. It is a fact. It is a fact. It is a fact. As Kyle and I get older, our stock value in sensuality, sexuality goes up clear up until our 60s. We are. And our age range of women go from late 20s to 50s, which you're talking three decades of women, and the guys at the top of the food chain are the most desirable. Now after like 60, 65, it probably goes downhill.

But for guys in the window.

In the window. Women start hitting that clock around 40. So then you have these couples that have been together. That's why the divorce rate's happening in that pocket. Because the men are rising in power. The women won't flip the switch. And the men are like, I'm not gonna fucking play this game for the next two decades. Hell fucking no. Do you know what I have as options out there? Yeah, I want you, but you won't flip the fucking switch. Woman. Help me understand.

I think that women sabotage themselves. They know that, so they start doing stupid shit. And you're like, just be the woman he wants you to be. Like, he wants to be with you. And you're now like, because your clock's ticking and all these stories now you're like, resentful and you're bitchy and you're all these things, but really, you just need to share your truth.

I was with three super, very successful men. These guys make 20 to 40 million a year, each of them all married, all cheating. Now hear me out on this. So I asked him, I said, so talk to me about, like, where's. Like, where are you at with your wife? You're like, listen, I love my wife. I've been with her for 20 some years. All I want from her is to want me. Like, just open up, woman. Stop being so closed down. I just want you to fuck. He's like. I was like, so be straight with me. All these young girls you're out with you really give a shit about them? No, but my wife will not flip the switch. She's so self conscious. She won't. She's so uptight. I can't get her doing. Even when I get her drunk, she still show up tight. I can't help. What am I supposed to do?

I was like, but she's resentful. She's resentful. She's resentful for her own lack of honesty.

That's it.

It's. It really is.

And it's fear, isn't it?

Yeah, she has to start by. Yeah, she has to start by first being honest with herself.

Yeah.

And like, that's why I feel like stacking is. Was so important for me because it was me actually, like, like I told you, I don't have. Nobody's gonna read it. It's for me. And so I don't have anything to prove. Where I feel like for a lot of women, right, we do things to get acceptance, recognition, all these things that when you're stacking on your own, I'm like, nobody to really impress. I'm just writing this for myself. And so it was like this kind of de. Layering and this freeing piece, which I feel like is the first piece to finding the unleashing in you is you have to know yourself and love yourself and accept, Accept yourself. But so many women hate themselves because they're not being honest with what they want. Do you feel like that meant.

Do you feel like in stacking it's almost like a self discovery? So you're like, you can almost approach it like, oh, that's why I'm feeling this way. And it's stupid and I don't want to be resentful. And so there's probably like a better way to like approach him with whatever you're feeling.

100, like, how many, how many times have been for all of us where the issue isn't your spouse?

Oh, yeah, the issue's you. Yeah.

But we want a pulling at our spouse as the issue. I mean, the whole time we were, when we were first married and we were going to the Mormon Church, I would, I begin fights with her like every week about not being spiritual.

Yeah.

Why don't you read the Bible?

And I was late. He's like, you're late to church, mind you, while we were dating, he's trying to get in my pants. I'm like, this is weird messaging.

I'm like, confused.

I'm so confused.

What do I call her?

She's not wrong. She's wrong. And I wasn't. I wasn't trying.

Then we get married, and all of a sudden I'm like, who's making missionary, Garrett?

Like, what?

And she would. But what was really being expressed was I was questioning the fabric of my own truth.

What's weird is when I met you, you. I thought he was like, the wild guy. We met in. In Utah. He was going to byu, and I was going to uvu. And literally everybody there in BYU land is like, cookie cutter. Like. Like. And he comes out, like, spiky hair. He's got a tattoo. Like, I'm like, ooh. I was attracted to the bad boy. So then we get married, and I'm like, what the hell? Like, we. We're going to church. Like, what are you Like, Like. He was like, also a different person.

Yeah.

I was like, oh, false catfish. Yes. I knew that this. That. I believe that when I met you, that was like. That was you.

Yeah.

It was the culture and the community and the religion and the fear and the guilt and the doubt that made you go into this other version of you that wasn't you. And so that's why we got so disconnected for about 10 years, because I'm like, where's the guy that I thought when we were dating? And then, like, you know, and it. Then we had to, like, almost rediscover ourselves.

We only knew one way to be a man and raise a family.

Yeah.

That was the only way we knew.

Yeah.

Truth is, most examples we've had weren't that good.

Yeah.

Like, my dad was not a good example of how to be a man and raise a family. Like, it just wasn't so. Like, I didn't have any points of reference. Like, there was no. There was no warrior. There was no. There was no men's movement. There was no 700 different men you could look to on social media.

It was elders corn.

You had elders quorum of people at the church, which is the worst example ever. Don't drink coffee, don't drink alcohol, but you can be fat as diabetic, and you're going to heaven the same. Which was wild to me. Okay, so let's hit this topic. You two left the Mormon Church, raised in the Mormon Church, super intense. But you chose a different path. Whose choice was this? Was it both? One. Who made this?

I jumped first. So when I became a fireman at 30 and I get into the fire service and I'm around men.

Yeah.

That are leading in chaos, that have integrity, that have powerful physical bodies and that have presence, and that can command a room. And I'm like, the. Is that.

That.

That's different than the men that I've been following over here. Like, I've. I've never seen this or felt this before at this level. And some of these guys were atheists. And I'm like, hold on.

Like, they're good men. This is confusing.

That's a man. And so I'm looking. Then I go to church, and I'm looking around and see all these fat that, like, are like. I just.

Nothing about them screams masculinity.

No, like, they, they. They're like, full of estrogen.

You finally saw, like, what was possible. I feel like kind of being trapped in a culture that you didn't know.

So I was like, I don't want to follow this. I want to be like these guys. And they all have different beliefs, all of them, and yet they're leaders. This is what leadership is to me now. And I'm like. And I'm seeing just chaos, blood, fire, death, darkest dead babies, like appendages on the highway. And I'm watching real men deal with real, not fake, made up. So I came home one day and Whitney's like, you don't seem like you're into it anymore.

I was like, well, Parker, he was turning 8 and our second oldest was about to get baptized. And I go, why we got to get him baptized? Are you going to baptize him? And that's kind of how. Because he was already not going to church. I was already bringing the four boys by myself. And so, yeah, I was like, what are you going to do? And that's where you were like.

I'm out. I was like, I'm out. I don't even know if I believe in God anymore. Like, the I've seen. I. I really honestly, a God that would let the I seen happen. I'm out, in fact, him. And if that's the God that does this, I'm going to hell. And I'll be happy to. So Whitney freaks out, obviously.

My envision of my four boys going on a missions and dad, you know, being there. And I'm like, wait, everything is different.

And this is the birth of the psycho side of me. Starting at the that moment that had been in a tiny little Mormon box.

That was you finding your truth finally without being forced into a container.

So you went into a room and cried, and I kind of went and knocked on the door. I go, hey, be careful how you react to this, because we've seen families unravel over this. And I'm telling you, Whitney, the world is a very big place, and there's an adventure for us. And she came out. Oh. She said, if you're going to hell, I'm going with you.

Oh, my God.

That's what she said.

And I said, that's the most Christlike thing I've ever heard.

Wow.

And I said, well, looks like we're going to hell together. And. And. And then we just were open.

Oh.

After that moment, we were just open to conversations, and it was like I was free to ask people. I was like, hey, what do you believe? They'd, like, tell me. I'd be, like, soaking it up.

Not. No, my way is the only way. Yeah. I only go to the true church.

Just soaking up all these ideas and thoughts. And it was like I was a sponge. Even guys are like, yeah, I don't believe in God. And I'm like, why? What does that feel like? Is that weird? Is that scary? Because I'm kind of scared. Like, I think I don't believe in God either, but I think about just dying and disappearing in the ground, and it freaks me out. They're like, why does it freak you out? I don't know. I was like, oh, fuck. It's my ego to not exist. It's just me being a prideful, egotistical prick that wants to exist. Why do I want to exist? And then. And then, in that, like, darkness of fear, the place I was so afraid to go, I looked at the world and I was like, what a miracle that I'm even here. Holy shit. If we all just disappear and this is a magic trick, how blessed am I? I don't want to waste a day. Which led to what? Worshiping discipline, integrity. All the things I learned in church that still worked without God.

Yeah.

I was like, whoa. So that's where we were for a long time until I met this crazy mother. And.

And that's where that was another new conversation.

So you kind of, like, gave up on God in your life?

Oh, ye. Like a. Like Roman. Like, honor.

Honor to the death, just Spartan code.

That's it. No God, just. We live once and we die with honor.

Now, where are you at with the God conversation?

I don't even know where to start with.

This is the crazy piece. So he goes to Warrior Con 4. He starts stacking, and all of a sudden he's like, I believe in God. And I'm like, you. We just got through this together. I just was by your side, and now you're, like, leaving me behind.

Were making Fun of me. Our boys were like dad's dad doing some weird again.

It was just like, we can't follow this guy. He's a looney dad.

He's a loose cannon all over the place.

God, we're Vikings. Okay. We're back with God.

We are Christians now. Back to it.

But I had a. I mean that. That was huge.

Back up real quick on this one. Right? So like, people may not understand this from the Mormon frame. So if you go to a non denominational church or you go to a soft happy. Well, I call them happy clappy choices. They're great. I do. I really enjoy so much about the non. If I'd been raised in non denominational Christianity, I'd have probably stayed like in the game because they're so fucking loose. It's just loose. It's like, show up. We do a rock concert for an hour. You ask for an offering. They warm you up on this one hour set. And then I tell my kids. I was like, watch, Here comes the pitch. Hey, get ready. This was set. Everybody's been warmed up. Now comes the pitch. They got donuts and coffee. The kids got free childcare. And the pitch in three, two, one. The building fund. And my kids are sitting there going, oh, that was a good pitch this week. It was a good pitch solid. Gonna get big ones on the texting on that one.

Texting.

It was funny because I had that world. That world. And a lot of soft Christianity is what most Christians come from. Talk about it from your perspective about why leaving the Mormon church is more like leaving a gang.

Yeah.

Than it is leaving your community church. We don't like Saddleback Church. We're going to oceans. We don't like oceans. We're going to mission. We don't like Mission. We're going to wherever. Yeah.

Yeah.

You are breaking the family chain.

Yeah.

And cursing all the way up your chain and all the way down.

Don't you know who your ancestors are?

You will not be in the celestial kingdom with your family sealed for eternity. You have broken the promise and the covenant. You are now ostracized.

It's not only with the family, though. The hardest thing for me was like, I kind of had all my friends at church.

Yeah. Yeah.

And they stuck around for a little bit. And then it was like I was a lone ranger. And so you lose your tribe, like, you kind of lose your support system.

Yeah.

And so for me, it was like I lost my circle of friends. They would say they didn't go anywhere, but it just got weird. And then my. Our family totally left us behind. Every time we were around them, it was criticism and, are we ruining our kids? And, you know, without God, everything's gonna be of no worth.

Parents crying all the time, parents crying.

It was just so, like, we just totally felt alone. We're just like, who do we have to love? Us?

The Carnahans are really struggling right now.

Right.

We need to pray for them. And we're like, you. We're thriving.

Yeah.

Yeah. But it brought us together, you know, it's crazy, though. Even, like, what Garrett and I. I have done, we still have people. Like, we hope. We sure hope Danielle and Garrett are okay. I'm like, have. I'm sorry. Have you not seen what we have built? When is that story not going to work anymore?

These are coming from, like, broke.

Yeah.

And, like, overweight.

And they're like, we'll sure pray for you. And we're like, we'll sure pray for you.

I think you might need it.

That's the most insane.

Yeah.

It's so bad.

But it's.

But it was. What is crazy, though, about the. The Mormon culture? And we went through the same thing. It's like, it's very guilt based. If you leave, you damned your whole family, and so, so many people stay. I always tell Garrett, I'm like, I wasn't ever like that.

You were never.

I was never really Mormon.

Like, I told Danielle I was a pagan and I wanted three wives. She would have been in. No, let's go.

I was never really.

Daniel was like, hell, I don't even believe in that place. Let's go party.

I was never really. I was never really in the church. I was always in the culture. So. What. What? My. When I tell people, I'm like, yeah, I wasn't. I didn't. I didn't, like, study the scriptures and do all the things, but, like, leaving the culture is. Is equally as hard. You get, like, blamed and judged, and everyone's like, what's wrong with them? And it's like, for us, we didn't stop going to church when we were losing everything. So not only were we los everything, and then we decide we're out of the church. Everyone's like, oh, man. They've just, you know, gone off the deep end.

Like, you know, my dad had. My dad had the Cora Horror Family home evening.

Oh, that was so scary.

Mormonism. There's this character in the Book of Mormon who's, like, trying to convert all of the Christians in America according to the Book of Mormon to not Believe in God. So my dad hosts a family. Now, I want you to imagine my father the last time. My dad, who's a marshmallow. And I love him. He's a lovey marshmallow. And he was Santa Claus for Christmas for five straight years. That was his job. I love him. He's great. He's not my role model by any stretch of imagination, but he is in the fact that he's everything I would choose not to be. And yet I can love my father for that. I love my father for the fact that he showed up in such a weak capacity for me as a man. And it wasn't his fault. He was the youngest one raised by his grandmother, my grandmother. And my grandfather was in the military and gone all the time. And my grandfather shared feelings. He just steamrolled my grandma. And so my. My dad was a baby raised by a woman who was pretty much a cupcake Mormon mom. And so he was a cupcake Mormon dad.

Yep.

So we. He's. When I'm 14 or 12. 12, 13, something like, my dad comes at me in this kitchen, and I found my. I'd found my spark because I found sports at that time. And I confronted my dad, and I was like, okay, we're going. Let's go. It's probably the only time I cussed my father to him. I was like, you, let's go. And my dad's like. And I remember my dad backing off. Never again. Because I was getting hit with paddles and belts. That was just the world I got raised up in. You're naughty. Get over. I had a paddle in my house that had holes in it so marshmallow dad would hit me with the paddle on my ass, with my pants down. Little circle bruises all over my legs. I just thought I was part of the world that we were up and. No. But then now, Fast forward. It's 2009. We're leaving the Mormon Church, and my dad has a family home evening. And I go over there, and you were sitting right there.

No, I was.

It was the one. What was?

You.

You tell the story. Because I always tell the story.

I just remember it was like, we're, like, feeling like we're at rock bottom. We've lost everything, but we're like, hey, we're going to rebuild our. Our marriage and our life in Arizona. And we, like, go to connect with the family, and we're basically getting, like, shamed and guilt and breaking up scriptures to prove how wrong we are with scripture. I was like, we're getting like, for me though, like I again, I like, was never like super religious. And I just remember thinking like, this is so dark. Like peace out. Like, it was like confirmation for me. I'm like, no, there's bigger things for us in store, you know.

Confronted my dad in this. I'm sitting in a chair, just calm. And my dad's up doing a fam home evening leading. And he's so angry. Like there's no love, there's just anger. Which was his own fears now being exposed because probably my dad wanted to leave, but he was never strong enough. My parents probably should have got divorced, to tell you the truth. They should have. They've been separated for six to nine months at a time, multiple times. They probably should have got divorced, but neither one of them was courageous enough. But now they're in their 70s and they're with each other and it's great. And they're Nauvoo on a mission and driving cattle and having a great time. I'm happy for them. My dad stands up and up to me and he's standing in the middle of the room in front of all my siblings, fists are clenched, veins popping out on his neck, face red. My mother's holding him back. And I'm sitting there with my siblings and I just look at my dad and I say, if you come at me, this will be the worst mistake of your life. Everyone's watching the shit go down. And my mom pulls my dad out and Danielle and I get up. Peace. We didn't hang out with my family for another four or five years.

Sometimes you do though, you have to distance yourself. You're like, I've got to quiet the noise down and work on me and not. I don't care what they think. And our families came back around. We were so nobody talked to us literally for five years. Yeah. And then they finally, they started to see our rise and our success and all of a sudden they're like, huh, okay. And then, then they kind of slowly started because my parents weren't that bad. My mom, my mom, my mom.

Your mom called me and cried for about two hours.

She did. But she, My mom loves her kids so much. She would never. She like, she, she's a grandmother to.

Go to hell with her grandchildren.

Yeah, she would, she'd be like, well, I guess we're going.

My father in law came up to me at that same time and he pulled me to the side when we left. And he comes up and he said, my dad. Yeah, yeah. He's a very quiet, big man, concrete cans. Just like contractor. He comes up and he's like.

So I was raised a little different.

Her family had a much different perspective.

Yeah, they were. My mom was sad because my parents my actually had a brother who died. And that's when my parents got active in the church. So they got married super young. I had a brother who literally got shot. He was seven years old and he got shot in somebody's basement with a gun they found. And so, I mean, I can't even imagine what that would do to you as a mom. But that's when my parents really went to church.

Found hope.

They found. Yeah. You know, so beautiful. So it's so. So for her to have one of her kids leave, she's like, I. She like, I'm sure. It's like, she's like, I lost my son. And that's how I wanted us families can be together forever. And so that's what I believe she genuinely thinks is like, how do I see my son that died? Oh, the religion and families can be together forever. And I believe that when we die, like how the Mormon Church teaches it and they say the. The king, it's more of a level of frequency. It's not a guaranteed because you hit the checklist, you're in the celestial kingdom. It's frequency on who you became as a person. So. And that's what people don't get. You can never break a family chain off of a checklist. So even if you leave doesn't mean they're going to celestial kingdom. They broke it because they're fucking assholes doing the checklist. And that's what people don't get.

Okay. So the one of the things I want to hear you to talk about. I didn't know this was going to be a leap. We left the Mormon Church podcast, but we're going.

I know. And sex.

We started with great sex conversation.

Yeah.

What? You'd be amazed. And you're probably having this in Superhuman fathers too. We have a ton of fringe Mormon couples who have been questioning shit for a very long time who listen to the show and or in Wake Up Warrior in Superhuman fathers who are like, dude, help us, help us. There's a massive exodus from all churches in our age group right now because we were all raised a certain way. But Mormonism, there's a reason why the numbers have stayed exactly the same, because it can't stop. The exodus of the 30something couples. 40something couples who are bouncing. One of the energies that was so different for us was to get to Experience a life outside the container of guilt, shame, fear, obligation. Talk to me about what that's been like for you guys coming out of that container, being able to experience less and less of it.

That's emotional for me. And because I. When I worked with you, one on one, I was still in it. It, man. And you kept painting me that over and over again, and you still get sucked into it.

I do.

But you were. You're ahead of me. So, you know, I was. I was, like, so psychotically, like, disciplined in everything where it was like. I almost created, like, my own Mormon commandments in my life. I'm like, discipline. I'm like meat, fruit, that is it. Water, black coffee only. No enjoyment, no pleasure. Just discipline. And so. But to hold that line.

He really wants to be a Viking.

Great fucking clips.

I told him I do not want to live in that Viking era, though. No, he's obsessed with Viking.

We would have thrived in that shit.

Yeah, you would have been fine.

No, dirty.

We would have had at least stinky. At least a thriving town, you and I.

Okay, continue on.

But I would get just guilty. Not like. Like, sleeping in one morning. I'd be like, oh, my God, I'm such a piece of.

Yeah.

Such a piece of. I'll just beat the.

Out of myself.

Even when we met.

Yeah.

Because it was like, I had no God, so there was no Jesus. There was no forgiveness. It was just like, can you hold the line? If not, you are worthless. And I could hold the line pretty good. And it was good for me for the time to learn discipline and to lean into that. But when I actually let Jesus back into my life and saw it and was like, oh, free.

Yeah. Yeah.

And now I just do this because I love it, and I love him, and I love the gift, and I love the game, and I love life. And then I was like, like, I have to show this to Whitney. I have to show this to my kids. Like, we don't have to suffer like this anymore. That look.

Yeah, it was. Yeah. God. The whole God thing, for even, you know, being in. In Mormon culture and religion, I feel like you. I looked at God as somebody who has always disappointed me, who was never gonna be enough for no matter what I did, he's always just gonna be like, good, try, not enough. And so I always had this, like, guilt relationship with God, and I never really had a close relationship with God because I was always freaking scared that I was not gonna make it to wherever I was wanting to go.

Yeah.

So this whole, like, understanding of God. And not attaching it to the fear that everybody in religion, I feel like, wants you to have, because it keeps you in compliance or whatever and keeps you in fear, which keeps you around. But it was this, like, oh, God actually loves me. He sees me. He has empathy for me. He doesn't judge me. He doesn't hold anything against me. It was like, oh, my God. And so then I can finally feel that for myself. I could finally feel that for him and for my kids and all the mishaps that happened throughout the day. I wasn't gonna be stuck in the spiral of. Of just like.

Where did you find that?

Where did I find it?

Yeah. Where did you learn how God actually feels about you?

Was that when I was in my journey?

No. Oh, thing we do every day.

Stacking.

Yeah.

No. Yes. I thought you were thinking deeper.

That's how we learned the personality of God.

He just wants you to talk to him. He just wants. He's there for you.

I think when you open up that. That communication with God, then you get direct revelation. Like, it's like. It's almost like the trust starts to build. And it's interesting. Even recently in my life, I'm like, you know what? I need to be more open to communicating with God and listening. So my new thing lately is like, hey, like, what do you want me to do? And I listen. And then stuff starts really manifesting quickly because you're like, God's actually. We're talking. We're having this communication, and that's what he wants. We're. I almost think of it as, like, me and God, we're in a partnership. We're just trying to make it back up to being gods ourselves.

God's plan is, like, so much more efficient. And I think there's only one plan, in my experience, which is get men and women back into communion and direct conversation with the Father. That was a shift for me. That's a shift. I've watched for you too. What's it feel like, Whitney, to have people hear me say this? And there's a lot of religions that do not believe that men and women are to speak to God. And so they worship the Bible, which I love the Bible. I read the Bible every morning. I love it. And it's not the most important thing to me because the Bible does not make God. God is and was and will all be. And that truth is in us. God is in us. Which means the place to find connection and communion with God is to connect into yourself. So we're out here pursuing all these pastors and these bishops and these prophets and all these people's words or the Bible and all of them are saying, go here. I shouldn't say they are. Most are saying, listen to me versus go here and talk to God and ask him. What's it felt like, Kyle, for you just in business and life to think, to know that every morning you can step into a conversation with God. Not a theory, like a legitimate. I can ask questions and God answers.

I can't have level of confidence and knowledge of my own identity without that. I couldn't have found it. When I get lost, I just have to go into a prayer stack and I have to receive the words of God. And then I'm reminded every time. Darkness always tries to swallow us, still comes for me all the time. And I've noticed in the other stacks, they're great, like an angry stack or raised stack or sad stack, but it's the communion in the prayer stack that reminds me who the fuck I am. And I just know I can go there anytime. Today one of the guys on one of our calls was like, hey, why doesn't God speak to prophets now? And I was like, oh, bro. I was like, look at, look at the prophets. A lot of these guys lived, what, like 150, 200 years old or whatever. How many times do we have record of God talking to him? Like five times in 200 years. I was like, let me read you something. And I read one of my coaches stacks that he sent me yesterday who'd been struggling and he hasn't been stacking. And God spoke to him so thick and so powerful. And I read that that and I go, he goes, who wrote that? I go, coach bj yesterday. And BJ's in tears because he's been withholding, talking to God because he's been angry. And then he gets that read back to him. And there's this realization that God speaks to man more than ever now in the last days.

Yeah.

And that we're all prophets and all have the ability to speak to him. I learned that through the stack. I learned that through the warriors way. I learned that through being around you. And it's the most empowering thing I've ever experienced in my life.

Fun part is to watch is that the sexual Revolution for YouTube came after Communion with God. God's like, hey, listen, now that you're listening to me, you're enjoy this.

You're welcome. There's your gift.

Thank you for connecting. Now go fuck yourself. And this piece for us, I mean, Danielle's kind of been in that place of listening more than I was. I was much rigid like Kyle, because of just the structure men are taught in Mormonism. Just discipline and structure. This is why they're so good at sales. They're so good at taking rejection because of it. But that also, I never. Like, that's a weird thing because you said, I brought. I brought God, and I accepted Christ into my life. When I tell people that, and, like, people say, oh, you're new to the faith in the last three years, I said, bro, I've been rocking this game for a long time. But, yes, I was in a relationship with a religion and a checklist and a box of fear. And now to be outside that fear creates freedom for us as a couple to explore this life together in ways that we never, ever would have before.

I think, too, for women, we think of God as intuition. We're like, oh, I have intuition. You're like, I'll have you consider that God is in you, but you don't feel worthy enough to actually say that. So we use words like, it's my intuition. And so when I. Like, when I felt that, for me, it was like. Like, I was literally like, oh, my God, we can do so much more if we accept that. It's not intuition, God.

It's literally God speaking within you and how.

And when you get that feeling, you know, 100%, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

It's not intuition. It's God.

Yeah, it is.

How's this blood over into your kids? Just this new revival for you two. Like, what. What are you noticing with the four boys? I mean, raising 14? I don't. We don't. We're not raising. We're. We got the opposite of spectrum. I got all the boys with the E bikes that now parked in my garage. 14 of those E bikes yesterday, I was like, holy shit. I got a biker gang at my.

House right now, literally.

And we're raising the daughters on the other side. I know you guys got four penises to worry about, and I got about 4,000 to worry about coming at my daughters. So what's it like for you two, raising your boys? Because you guys have really taken this far.

Yeah, I mean, they.

They.

Know. They know and they feel it. They know that they can talk to God. They know that they are the source. They already know at their age. They have zero constraints. They're in no boxes, no belief boxes. They're free to think, talk, feel, work.

We. We've.

We've been able to create the space for Them that we didn't have because.

We just have open conversations. We share everything with our kids and.

They get to have opinions. And I'm like, that's crazy. That's an interesting way to look at it.

And when they mess up, which they all do, I feel like when we messed up, your parents were nicer than mine, I think, but there was just like beat the shit out of you pretty much. Like not physically so much, but emotionally just make you feel like you are the worst person ever. And so with our kids, I mean, obviously they're making mistakes all the time. They have this forgiveness for themselves and they know that God's not there to hurt them or be mad at them, but to love them and accept them. And so it's been cool because as they've been talking to us about, there are certain things they've gone through. There is just this peace that they have that I wish I had as a kid.

Probably more of an open mindedness because it's funny, people see my daughter Bailey, I mean she, she, she, she looks a little homeless. She like, she likes, but she looks like people are asking like, how's Bailey doing? Like the stuff she posts and like how she portrays her body and things like that, I'm like, she's on fire. She's doing music, she's working at Starbucks. And it's like, I know that everybody has their own design path. And so I think a lot of times as a mom we put, if we put too much guilt and judgment on our kids of like, this is the path, then it actually makes them, like, doesn't develop them. And so for me, I'm like, people can talk all day long about my daughter. The ones that are like kind of like stuck with how the cookie cutter kid should look like, and she's not in the plaid skirt and the, in the private schools and all this thing. I'm like, yeah, she dropped out of high school and she's pursuing music. And I know this is her path. And I'm so grateful that as a mom I recognize that so that she can become the full potential of herself. Because everybody has like their own journey. So I think it's so important that you guys are going into raising kids with an open mindedness so that they can actually discover themselves while keeping them in the bumper lanes. I say, you know, by leading and guiding and showing up as an example. And like, there's certain things that are okay and certain things that are dangerous and not okay, but really letting them discover who they are is like the Most beautiful thing I think that you can do as a parent. And I think a lot of parents miss that mark. And their kids, they. They don't ever develop what they're passionate about because they're held in a container.

Well, they miss their mark because they're so unhappy with themselves.

Yeah.

That they're validating their lack of. With their kids. I mean, I know I did that for a long time. I pushed my kids to have 4.0s and to be the best athletes because it was like, I'm winning as a mom.

Yeah.

Yeah. Makes you look good.

Yeah. I'm like, that's it. I did it. But you have so much peace in you. Right. And I have so much peace in me. You've got a dog barking.

Protecting us from Theo, who's working hard in the house.

So cute. So that. That's the biggest piece. Once you can find peace within yourself and certainty in you and love for yourself, you're not gonna torture your kids to live up to something.

And you'll never. People like, we think we're judged by our kids. And I'm like, I don't care. You can't. You can think whatever the. What do you. Whatever you want about my daughter. I'm like. Like, I'm still gonna hold space for her. And I'm not saying I'm like, we do everything perfect. There's. Sometimes I'm like, we really gotta reel her in. She.

She's a little freebird.

She's a little freebird. But like I said, it's like having that balance of being open minded while kind of keeping them in the bumper lanes and leading them. Guiding them.

Yeah, for sure.

Now you two have chosen to lead. People talk about this, Kyle, why? I mean, you run Superhuman Fathers. Very successful at it. A massive dent in the game. I'm just getting started. Warrior Fit's coming out next year. Partnership deal with you. And I, like, talk about, like, why. Why lead, though? Because people look at leadership and they think, oh, I want to do the cool thing Kyle's doing, but there's a definite dark side of this that we're up to. So, like, what is it that you. What has. You keep choosing to show up and lead men right now?

Yeah. Everybody wants to be a gangster until you got to do some gangster. You know, it sounds good. You watch. You watch, guys like, I want to be a coach. And you're like, okay, let's see. And then they get in it and it's like, oh, this is heavy. This is heavy. And I'm out. And you watch them start, quit all over the place. But when I was in the firehouse, I. I would. I really gave a. About the people in the firehouse. It was a family to me. Like, these were brothers, and they. The. The more I started to get on a path of like. Like, discipline and kind of starting to understand what I wanted. And then looking at my life and being like, you know, all the stuff we talk about that, like, where we were and how painful it was, we were so far ahead of the game compared to all the guys that I was working with in the firehouse who I used to look at as the leaders. That's the craziest. These are the guys I looked at and were like, those are real men. Seven years later, I'm looking at them like, oh, you guys are.

So.

I had grown so much that the. The balance of power had changed to where I'm going, oh, wait, you guys are fat, overweight, you're undisciplined.

You. You.

You're. You're tired and burnt out. They were. Just had disconnected relationships. And Whitney and I, no matter what shit we were going through, we were always good friends. Like, we were just friends. Like, we. We just. We wanted to be together. We had something that they wanted even back then, not knowing what was possible in the future. But I had. I saw the gap in these guys, and then I. I started talking to them about fitness, and I started talking to him about life. And they're like, how do you have this family and these kids? You guys are skateboarding all the time, and you're always, like, playing music, doing jiu jitsu, skateboarding. You got. You, like, you're ripped and you're, like, old, and, like, your wife seems happy. Like, what's going on? Yeah. So I just talked about the stuff. Get them on a very simple plan of, like, wake up at this time, eat this, work out. And they would start doing that, and their entire lives would start to change. Like, the relationship would change, their leadership at the firehouse start to change, their attitude, start to change with such a very simple things. And I was like, this is crazy. Like, everyone needs to know about this. So I started just sharing that with all the guys in the firehouse. And at one point, I had, like, 60 guys that I was coaching in the firehouse for free.

Yeah.

Just because it was fun.

Yeah.

So I didn't start this because I wanted to build, make money or build anything. I just. I saw what it did for men, and when I saw the transformation, I just got high off it, man. I was like, I love this.

Yeah.

And so once it. Once I spread it out to the world and we got to do it for thousands. Like, you say it all the time. You can't turn this off.

No, no. Whitney, you had been down the path of leading women in fitness for like 10 years way before me. Oh, you were down. What sparked you to even start back then?

Yeah, fitness was my escape. It kind of gave me confidence. I was teaching fitness classes, personal training. So it was almost like I had this authority where in a life that I didn't always feel like I had. So it's kind of like an alter ego in a lot of ways. And so I saw how much it was affecting me and kind of the body bounce back that I had, which affected the way I showed up in every piece of my life. And so wanting to give that to moms, that's why I made it. Warrior mom back almost 15 years ago was like, I want moms to be strong and, like, kick ass and get after it and not be this, like, probably to church. I'm like, I don't want to be that wife anymore, like, who's just submissive and quiet. I didn't know how to necessarily except for the body, but it was the pathway that I started with. And then it just kind of elevated. Of course, there's always more to fitness than just counting calories and working out. You're like, oh, well, this is why your discipline's off, because this is off. And so it kind of always elevated to more mindset. But really, it's just, I just have such a deep desire to just help moms just see who they really are, because motherhood can be such a drowning experience. And I'm just sick of watching moms just put their life on pause because you don't have to.

Yeah.

I mean, you got four, four or five kids. I got five kids. We do. It's like, not like you can't. So the whole.

It's like you don't want to settle into. Just like your kids are your only purpose. Like, I think that's such a, again, a guilt driven mindset by moms of like, well, I have kids, so I just have to be in the mom window for the next 20 years. And you're like, no, your kids should not be your only purpose.

No.

And so it's like they don't have the confidence or the certainty. And part of the what's cool is like, if you get fit, what that does. It's almost like the beginning piece of your life. Like, well, this feels fun. This is powerful. It's what I've seen with Garrett over this last year. All of a sudden, he has muscles, and I'm like, there he is.

Yes.

And it's. And it really. It's like this confidence and this certainty that it's like, what else can I do?

You know, it bleeds over.

What's my favorite body part?

What's your favorite body part?

If you say my favorite body part. Your favorite body part of me.

My favorite body part of you?

Yeah. Like, when you look at me, what is your favorite body part?

All of it. No, but you want me to say your ass. Because it does look nice. He had a pancake ass.

He's really proud.

No. Even I was like, I'm like, jealous. Really? I'm like, you have.

You have an ass part of my body to hold on.

I just can't keep my hands off it.

Like, you know how, like, guys always come over and slap girls in the ass? That's a me. I'm like, that is just nice, solid.

Well done.

Thank you, Coach Carter.

Yes.

And your butt gains program. I had a really hard time with it when we first got on the girl. Like, booty machines. Like, the naughty girl. Good girl machines.

Naughty girl Good girl.

Guys watched watching guys do it.

But, you know, it's super gay watching a guy do it. There's nothing.

But you can't have a. You can't have all these muscles and then just have a flat ass.

Well, we do other things. We squat. We do some other things, but, like, that was part of it. So listen, this is like you are now stepping into a role. I saw you, like, a year ago when you first came to our programs, and I looked out at you during an event, not even having a clue this would be the case. And I looked right at you. And then I looked at you and I was like, oh, shit, she's the one. And then you were looking at me, and I was like, you're it. And in two weeks, Warrior Woman launches, and you are the lead trainer. Warrior Woman. Yeah. Crazy. Like, you rose up into this, and Warrior Mom Fitness became. Wake up, Warrior Moms. And. And here we are about to lead a revolution of moms. So talk to us about what that feels like to step into this. I mean, we had a big event coming up in two weeks. Have a ton of women there that are going to be part of this experience. How's that feel to know you've done the work to put yourself in this position?

It's Interesting. I remember when I first started Warrior Mom Fitness, when I did that first YouTube video about 12 years ago, I remember Kyle telling me, you're going to be on stages one day. You're going to be like, on Oprah. And I'm like, bull crap. Bull crap. And I was like, that was when Oprah was a big deal. Yeah, she's still a big deal, but. And I was like, okay, okay, okay. I never have allowed myself to believe that because I've always played so small. And so that opportunity that you kind of proposed to me last year, that idea sparked in me. It was like, oh, my gosh, maybe I am capable of more. And so it just pushed me to just get free from all the stuff that I've been limiting myself by. And it's just amazing to see when you finally make a choice to allow yourself this permission to fully be you in all capacities, it's ugly, it's bloody, it's messy. It's not. It was not pretty this last year, by any means. There's more tears. I know you probably. You had similar experiences last year. It's like, oh, my God, when is this gonna end? It's so hard. But when you get kind of where I've gotten this last month, it was like, oh, I see. To see where it was all for. And I just know that there is such a big need for women, especially to rise. And I'm just seeing all these kids just need moms that are strong. Husbands need these wives that can counter them and check them and hold space for them and be with them. And I'm like, fuck, if there's nobody else to do it, then I guess it's me. And I'm like, all right, let's go. So I'm super excited. I'm honored, I'm humbled, and I'm ready to just bring it to a higher platform.

You're qualified.

I'm qualified.

I think that's for women. That's the hardest thing is when you feel called to go in the beginning. You feel unqualified. So it keeps us stuck. It keeps us stagnant. And then you're like, I have to understand that I'm not speaking in front of thousands right now, but I am qualified, and I will get there. So if you tell yourself that, then you're like, okay. Because even for me, I'm trying to push my personal brand and all that. And I'm like, I can't do it. And I'm like, get nauseous thinking about it. And then I'M like, no, it's. I'm like, I can do it. I am qualified. You just have to start with where you're at.

Yeah.

And you're doing it right. You're putting in the reps. Yeah.

Listen, we could do like 17 hours.

I know. I was like, sorry.

No, today was like. Today was perfect.

Only covered sex and religion.

Sex and religion.

The two topics. Those are the best two topics.

The most controversial, politics.

And we knew we could do it with you guys.

That's right.

You guys are amazing. Again, cock our hand with superhuman fathers. You find him on Instagram, you find him on YouTube, find him on everywhere. So just Google it. You'll find him. He's grown a beard since a lot of his old videos.

Don't be afraid. With his bald head.

Just his bald head and his no bearded face. And now he's got hair in his chin, his nose, his ears, his hair. A lot of that. Testosterone, A lot of that.

I mean, Whitney has more hair, too.

I know.

It's been our hair a hair makeover year, the year of hair.

Both grew hair. I think that was the magic to it. Whitney runs Warrior Mom Fitness, but also now a wake up warrior woman, specifically focusing on coaching moms who are at home. So a lot of women get put in a situation really difficult, which is they're married to high producing men. They don't have a desire to go launch a business. They don't want to go to these things. What they want to do is be an elite mother and be able to show up for themselves and not get lost. She's our lead girl in guiding that conversation. We're excited to have her as one of our lead trainers at work, Wicked boy woman. But also watch her launch and blow up and what she's doing. We believed in these two from the beginning, from the very beginning. And God reached out and said, reach out to this giant caveman that skateboards who can actually do tricks and who falls with 220 pounds of muscle to the concrete floor and rolls off and laughs. I'm like, I've done that a few times. I was not rolling off and laughing. I was like, oh, what the fuck am I doing in this skate park? So thank you so much for being here. We're going to have you guys back again as a guest and boss. We're going to be in your lives forever. So. So we love having you here. And Danielle, you want to close up the show.

All right, you guys, you know what to do if you found value in this show. Share it with your friends. Honestly, our goal here is to bring real life stories to impact, to help you get outside of the box and really become the best versions of yourselves and the best relationships. So again, share this with your friends. It comes out every single Monday. And stay tuned for more guests that we'll be having on every single week.

That's a wrap for this week's Date Wave podcast.