We Built an Arena, Faced the Hate, and Still Rose: Raw Truth Behind Success, Marriage & Porn Addiction

And here we are back finally with another episode of the Date youi podcast. And there has been a lot of shit that has gone down. A lot of shit talking since the last show.

A lot of shit talking or just a lot of shit?

Both. Both? Yeah. I found an entire series of Reddit columns that my friends sent me I didn't even know existed.

That's what happens. And you start doing big stuff. People. People are out. They. They want. They. When people see success, it's like they don't want it. There's always like a villain that is like, no, we're out to prove them wrong. People find purpose in it.

Well, Alex Ramos says it perfectly said that people will cheer you on to be successful, and once you're successful, will do everything they can to tear you down.

Yeah, they don't like that.

No, it's the same thing. You look at the sports, it's like, we want you to be a champion. And then when you're a champion, we want you to lose your title.

Really?

Yeah.

Because why? It makes it more interesting.

It's because people are losers, and this is how losers live. You know who real people are that are truly successful in marriage, business, or life, because. And you know who your closest real friends are and associates because when you win, they cheer and celebrate your victory with you and they want you to win more. But you find out real fast who all the bullshit artists are and who were never really close. And why there is so much betrayal for everyone as you grow and rise is because you find out real quickly who are the people. The COVID.

I think though too. It's like once you're say you surpass somebody, it almost like questions their box or their beliefs. So they're like, how dare you question me? How dare you want to have more success than me? Because it's actually really calling them out to rise. It's calling them to have more success. And so they get kind of triggered. So then they almost find more purpose in like, oh, like kind of buying into the talking and things like that, because it justifies them saying with where they're at.

I remember back in the day when I would be at events, watching speakers, like 20 years ago, and I remember thinking to myself, I'm better than those guys. They don't deserve to be up there. And then I, you know, fast forward 20 years later, we just did Man Arena. We had 1300 people live. We launched it and deployed it in one in 100 days, had 2000 tickets to it. People are talking shit because I said 7,000. I said that was my target. We. We didn't hit the target. We did hit 1300 guys in a room all black and wearing Mandarina gear. Like, I'm rocking right now, and there's less power. There's a thousand people can speak powerfully.

You said 7,000. Maybe that was 7,000, maybe it wasn't. It'll get there.

Like, oh, I know.

Yeah.

But nonetheless, like, there's a thousand people who can speak. There's very few who can build stages.

Right.

So people are coming to me out of the woodwork to be part of the event. They're like, dude, I can speak on. I could value us. I was like, I appreciate that you can do that. You know, here's what I can do. I can build arenas.

Yeah.

So I don't need more speakers. Although we had 19 speakers.

Yeah. A lot of speakers.

It was a powerful event. You were there.

I thought. I thought it went. Here's the thing. I In. We've both done large events, and in my experience, like, the first time you do an event, like, you're. You're kind of like, it's new. It's new territory. But I feel like it went really, really well. Like, I thought for this being the first one. And what's cool is, like, once you do an event, you're kind of like, okay, I like this. I didn't like this. Okay, this worked. This didn't. You know, people in the audience, they don't know any different. They're just like, that's awesome. But that's why I think it's even. You can go to an event, and then you can, like, revisit that event, like, two years later, and you can be like, wow, they changed it. It's totally different. Think about the 10x conferences, how they started. You know, people were pitching and selling, and then it came down to, like, just bringing in value speakers and things like that. So it's like, you have to look at the event as what gives the most value and what's going to work well.

And it also comes down to one big thing, which is who has the biggest balls that test something.

Yeah. Not very many people do.

We got people like, I'm gonna test a workshop at my office with five people, and we're gonna plan it for six months.

Yeah.

Me and Dan Fleischman were like, yeah, let's just get an arena and let's fucking fill it up.

Yeah.

And let's test $800,000 and see if it works.

Yeah.

And it worked. And we were like, okay. Cool. So it's fun because like in things, I guess people think, oh, you're trying to make money. I was like, not out of the gate.

Yeah.

On any campaign, any event, everything. You're trying to break even. That's it. Can we break even on our costs to run the event? If we made some money, that'd be nice. But the real issue is can we, can we just pay all our bills and not have to come out of pocket for money? Which we did. And so you're like, okay, win victory. Which launched up our second one, which will be happening in Miami at the Miami arena coming up here in the next hundred days either end of August, 1st of September. I know you're pushing for 1st of September after our anniversary. So we're going to work it. It's either going to be right before or right after our anniversary.

I think what people don't understand about big events is like, yeah, there's like this element where you break even, but it's about exposure. Even with my hair brand, when we started doing bigger events, that's what kind of like blew past everybody. Because it was just like, well, who are these guys doing hair events with three to five hundred students? That's a lot in the hair industry. Nobody is doing that. Everyone was doing, you know, like their 10, 20, 30 person classes. And so it, like, I think even if you're. Even if you break even, the exposure to that it brings, brings your other businesses revenue.

The exposure is bigger than just like instant revenue. Like if you look at life insurance companies, Life insurance companies are happy to make money. A year and a half to two years into a contract, they give away almost all their commissions on the first year to their wholesaling agent. Like whoever the person that brought the contract, they give them almost 100, 120, 130% of contract value goes back to the insurance agent who brought the deal. Insurance company knows what the lifetime value of that contract client, which is once they implement a life insurance policy. Just like cell phone providers whether willing to give you free cell phones and finance your new iPhone or dollar because they know that once you stick with your iPhone, you probably your cell provider, you're not going to change over time. So they have long term vision for economic progress.

Right.

Which is what you have to have. That's why people are trying to like do events or do different things or participate in certain activities and they want to make money now. And I'm like, well you can, but that's not how big, big money's made.

Right.

Like we ran Warrior Week 75 times. Four day boot camp. 75 times.

You had 75 Warrior Weeks?

75 Warrior Weeks. Four day boot camps. We were running boot camps every two to three weeks from 2012, and they still happen every quarter Now. Sam Falsoffi runs up every single month.

But those aren't your events.

Not anymore. Yeah, my events stopped before your week back in 2019. And then I sell the brand to Sam and he took it. But we were running events and every event would get better, every experience would get better. We just improve small things. Sorry. Like 100 things we're going to improve for the next event. That'll make it even better than that. But that's you and me.

That's me and you.

Yeah.

What? What event?

We're basically man Arena.

Who? Me and you?

One big ass test.

I'm confused. Me and you are man in the arena.

You and I are a man in the arena. Test meaning we decided to get married and have children and be entrepreneurs. It's a test every year to figure out improvements. Every year. Our year now. Way better than five years ago.

But what it, what is the man in the arena like? How would you define the man in the arena? Is it essentially warrior body being balance in business? Like what, what does it mean? Like, I think that often times people have success in one area and they lack success in another area. So is this your main purpose and goal in building man in the arena is to essentially teach men how to have it all?

I love this. It feels like I just got on a TV station. You're just interviewing me like a. I think a voice model. Hi, welcome to ktla. My name is Danielle K. White. I'll be your host. Can ask you. So tell us more about this man in Arena. What is it all about?

You don't want to answer?

I do want to answer. I just want to validate your skills. You have a career in this.

Thank you.

You're getting good on that Daniel K. White show. Starting to become an interviewer.

Let's do some interviewing. You about man in the Arena. Let's hear it.

We've come a long way from the podcast.

What is man in the Arena? Tell us, Where do you see it in the next five years?

Sounds like the woman that interviewed Grant Cardone just a few days ago about being governor of California. She's a professional. Yeah. You sound like a professional now.

Thanks.

You've come a long way from 2018.

I actually tell people all the time.

They'Re like, you've come along.

I Tell people all the time. I'm like, podcasting is probably one of the biggest things that helped me with my communication. I'm like, because it's just reps and speaking on camera.

Yeah.

And podcasts, you don't edit. You're not like, oh, I messed that up. Can you edit that out? You just roll with it.

You could technically edit it out.

You could. But I don't. Like, if you're that person that gets on a podcast and you have to edit 10 things out, you're like, oh, you're a shitty podcaster.

Yeah, well, you just don't have. You don't have the ability to ask questions. You don't have the ability to answer.

Right.

We're playing tennis right now. Would you like me to answer a question now?

Yeah.

Okay, good. First, I'm validating. Your skills have improved. Radical. Since 2018.

Thanks.

In 2018, they said I over talked over you. You never said anything and I was a dick. Yeah, that's what they said about the show.

Yeah, it was kind of there.

But what we didn't. What we also knew at the time was you had a hard time even speaking. Like, you were a really good talker off camera with me and always had been, but it wasn't like something publicly. Now people see this version of you now and they're like, dude, your wife's a killer. You came on stage to do the secondary clothes at man in the arena with, you know, the woman on stage.

You know, it's interesting that when I see people that get on camera for, like, they're new at it, they use a lot of like, filler words. And I probably do the same, but it drove me nuts. And so what people don't understand is speaking, podcasting, public speaking, like, it's a skill. And so for me, I'm like, okay, I like to look at something like, how do I get better? So that was like, for me, I hated that I sounded dumb on camera with these filler words. Cuz I was like, I don't feel dumb. So I just, I'm like, how do you get better? You just put yourself out there and you keep doing it. The other thing that I realized too is I was like, as a hairstylist, I've always been an interviewer.

Yeah.

Like, I think that's. I felt out of place this last year because I had some big names on my podcast. I went from, like, totally transforming my podcast to, like, inviting no guests to having, you know, like, some pretty big names. I was like, I got some pretty Big people on my podcast. And for me, it was just like, okay, well, you can't get good at something unless you have reps. And so I just. I felt like doing the podcast really helped me get better at communicating and speaking. You fucking.

You're great. You're great. No, you're elite.

But it's not.

You're in that. You're in that top percentile right now. No bullshit. I wouldn't put you on my stage in front of all those guys and have you blast the clothes with me.

Blast the clothes.

I mean, I'd have you come out there and stand there and be hot and cute. Go, this is my hot and cute wife.

I think we should. We need to. I liked it, but I want to set it up a little bit better next time.

Yeah, well, you were. I was teeing you up some softballs. Yeah, you like this strategy, though? And you're going to get to the place where you just fucking slam it.

Well, here's the thing I hate. I'm not the person that, like, memorize something, and I'm not gonna be a keynote speaker. That's like, I've got my speech every single time. I think those are lame. So for me, I'm like, I just need to know a frame. And I believe that every good speaker should not be able to just memorize, but they should be able to channel. You have to be able to read the room, the audience. And so for me, I'm like, okay, if I kind of know the messaging that you want me to speak about, I would rather lean into God to have. Have him pour through me what I'm supposed to say. And I think it's like, I have to do my part. If God's supposed to pour through me and I'm supposed to be a good communicator, then I have to have reps so that when he commun through me, it makes sense. It sounds good. It's. It's delivering his message. So I like, for me, when I get on stage, I don't. I don't like to have scripts, but I do like to have frames. I'm like, where are we going with this? Cool. Now I can channel.

You know, that's what I do with all the speakers. And they're. Half of them are in our pants.

Yeah.

I. Required at this event. I said, you do not get any opening videos. We're not going to play any music when you come on stage. And you don't get to have any PowerPoints or keynotes. You don't get to pitch any of your. You get an opportunity to experience something magical, which is you have to be in the event room the whole day. We start off in the morning with all the guys praying. The night before, we had the VIP party. All the speakers got to connect with 120 of our VIP guests. And then during the event, I had their names on cards. All their names. 19 names, including the little boy who's the Mandarin, who's 8 years old. All of my cards sitting in my back pocket. I went from being Tom Brady to Bill Belichick, which is head coach of the Patriots, starting quarterback.

I was like, that PE degree. It really.

That was such a payoff. Highest paid goddamn PE teacher in the world. That's what I was doing. I was PE teaching like, 1300 dudes. I was coaching 1300 dudes. Plus I was coaching backstage of speakers, and I made them all were black. One. And I said, two. Here's the deal. You don't get to prepare your message. You get to be ready when I call you in, right? Which means I'd be sitting there, the event would be going. I'd have a moment. I'd be like, okay, I need these two people. I'd pull the cards out, hand them to Anna. Anna would go get Dan Dan and them go get the speaker. Had less than five minutes. Be ready. Said you're going to speak fire based upon where the room's at, not your prescript. That I did. You created a PowerPoint for me last week, and then you show up trying to jack up my event by putting your dumb idea into the middle of the event. That has no relevance whatsoever. No bad. I want you in flow. So what you were talking about was inflow. Only difference was I didn't ask him questions. I just said go.

Right? You just want me to go.

I want you to go next time.

I can go.

I mean, I know you could go. I thought you were going to go.

Yeah, I mean, I would have. Yeah, that's fine. I would. I mean, when I've spoken at Click Funnels, I've spoken, like, a little bit longer, and I have, like, a concept of what I want to share, but, I mean, it's a. It's a men's event, so I wasn't sure how long you wanted me to speak for.

As long as you want to go, babe.

Okay, give me. Give me a next time. Just give me, like, even if it's like the morning of the night before, be like, this is the energy. This is the messaging. I want you to prepare and Then I'm like, okay, then I have just like a few.

I gave you the energy, remember? Here's what it is. We're gonna practice right here on the show. Ready? I said, I want you to be pretend like they are all your husband. Speak to them as if you're their wife. Don't speak to them as my wife. Speak to them as if you're their wife speaking to them and saying to them what you wish you could have said to me years ago.

But what space are they in?

You saw them.

So it's like an older person getting.

Their ass kicked for like five hours. Right before lunch. They went to the dark pit. They dealt with their dark shit. We had dudes sharing stuff, Men crying, men yelling, men screaming, men pounding chest. It was a fucking emotional roller coaster of greatness. Dudes, by the time he got up there, were like, ready for the speech from the wife.

Speech from the wife.

So let's practice it right here. Let's do speech from the wife right here.

That's a lot of pressure.

Hey, you just told me that you're the queen of channel, of the divine power of godliness.

If I'm. If I'm speaking to the men, pretend like everybody. But is it me now or me then? Because me back then was really resentful and I didn't know how to communicate to you. And so I think I made it worse by kind of building up a wall or taking jabs. And so these men are kind of in this space where they're like, I'm trying to show up, but my wife's jabbing me. And you're like, yeah, cuz you're not producing or you're unconscious or you're, you know, you're in a space where like, you're not connected or whatever. So I think if I were to speak to these men, I would almost want to empower them. I would almost want. I know that men need validation and praise and they can't move without that. And I would say early version of Danielle didn't realize that even though, like, you weren't producing, how I was reacting to you was not helping the situation for me or for the family.

So.

So I would almost be encouraging to the men that like, hey, you showed up, you're here.

Do you think that a woman, if her husband's not producing, she should withhold sex if. And jab his ass with like, you, you need to get your shit together. You're not getting any.

That's weird. It's kind of a. It's Kind of a balance.

Well, I'm just saying this shit is what happens.

But that. That's what I'm saying. Like, it doesn't help.

That's what you did to me.

It doesn't help. I think for.

Clearly, it doesn't help.

Well, it's not even that. Like, I. I felt like. Here's how I felt in the beginning when we were like in our trauma.

Yeah.

I felt like it wasn't just about you not producing. I felt like you were not emotionally showing up for my needs. So there was. There. It went both ways. There was no respect or validation for me taking care of the kids, doing my part, trying to bust my ass, building my brand or anything. So I had a lot of resentment in the sense that, like, I'm like, hey, I'm working my ass off. Plus I'm being the mom. And what's interesting for. For women is men can go to work and they can unplug. They literally don't think about it. Women, we go to work and we're like, it's two o'.

Clock.

Okay. The kids getting outta school. Like, we're constantly. We don't ever stop thinking about our kids in.

Ever. I walk out that door. I don't think.

I know. So men have the ability to unplug. So for me.

Skill. You want to learn?

No, I honestly, I'm going to teach.

You how to do it.

I don't. I think it's a difference between a mom and. And a. It's the difference between a guy and a girl.

A mom.

I know there is this bond where literally you could be. I could be in the middle of like a super busy day when I owned my salon doing hair, and I'd be like, it's like, mom, Rain is like, oh, it's two o'. Clock. You know, like, texted Annie. Did you get Ruby? Okay, perfect. Like, yeah, it's. We can't fully unplug even when we're on vacation. I'm better at it, but I'll be like, hey, I know the kids just got up. I want to check in. Like, I'm constantly. I know their routine and I'm constantly checking in on them. I ask any woman, I don't care if she's a professional woman. Works. Doesn't work. We. It's inherent in our DNA that we cannot turn it off. It's mom brain.

Is that all women?

I am. Have you ever talked to a woman who's like, yeah, I totally forgot about my kids? Actually, one time I felt so bad. It Was like when Bailey was really, really little and I forgot, it was like early day out and they called me. Like, your daughter was crying on the playground. We found her by herself. And I was like, every mom has that moment. You're like, oh, my God, I'm the worst mom alive. My, my six year old thinks she was abandoned.

Dude. So, like, in the spirit of dudes forgetting, one of my guys, one of my guys got a call from. He was running. He was a bunch of trainers in my world. And one of our trainers was connecting with this group and in that group they were told about a guy who ended up coaching with one of my other trainers, Chad. He came to his house to help this guy, young, late 30s. They had moved and he was in his job. They'd moved and had a typical schedule where mom and dad, like, she would take the kids and drop them off at school and then she would go to work. He was going to his work. He worked like 14 hour days, 12 hour days. And then he would pick the kids up. So she would drop them off, he would pick them up. They're kind of rotating schedules. So one morning she had a change up and she had him go drop them off. They had a baby that was like nine months to a year old and then had a little toddler that was like three or four. So he goes to school, drops the kids off and then goes to work. He's in New Orleans, middle of the summer, 100 degrees humidity, hot as shit. Goes to work all day in the factory and then comes back out, goes to pick the kids up at the daycare and gets to the daycare, picks the toddler up and then goes over to pick up the other child. And they're like that. No one. Like, he, he didn't come today.

How did.

He's like, what are you talking about? He said, yeah, they like the. He didn't come today.

The baby. How would he not not notice? The baby now comes.

Now comes the heavy dark part. It then hits him.

He left the baby in the car all day.

Baby died.

How would he not see the baby?

He literally forgot about the baby in his big pickup truck.

Oh, and it was in the back.

Yeah, the little toddler was up front. Maybe she had dropped the toddler off and so he was going to. Something had happened where he just maybe.

Was in the car.

He completely forgot. And the baby literally cooked alive in the car. And like, he was so fucking wrecked. This guy, he came to one of my trainers Chad's house and sat with him for like Three hours. And Chad was related with him because his grandson had been murdered by his daughter's boyfriend. Like, literally shaken and slammed on the floor.

Wait, what?

Yeah, Chad, one of my coaches, his granddaughter was murdered by the father of the child. And then his daughter was so destroyed by the whole situation that she got herself completely drunk and lit and drove 150 miles an hour into a concrete wall.

Oh, geez. All in the same time period.

So he was connecting with this guy, trying to help him find his path through because his father was suicidal. I mean, I just can't imagine. It's like, I'm saying in the spirit. I know it's a really dark example, but, like, dudes, like, dudes just we. When we get into, like, go mode, it's. It's hard to be in anything but go mode. So there's a natural. I don't think if dudes thought about their kids all day long the way that women do when get done, I mean, it would, like, it'd be different. You couldn't do it. I think you couldn't even do it because you couldn't go to war like soldiers.

What I'm saying, I think men and women are built differently that way. Like, we, us women, like, it's very hard for us to turn off. Like I said, I could be in the middle of the. A presentation, a super busy class, like, anything, and I'm like, oh, it's 2:30. Like, it just. It's like it's dialed in. It's like it's in there. I don't have to set an alarm. I just know. I'm like, oh, it's this time she should be picked up. Like, it's just kind of how our brains are wired.

Yeah. So it was interesting at the event at man of the Arena. So there was a. We had Mason Kane, who runs a porn recovery program called Unchained. So he. He's been running that for the last, like, three or four years, five years. He'd been sexually abused as a boy, went through a whole bunch of porn addiction himself, overcame porn addiction, sex addiction, and then built this program to help other dudes. And they're blown up. They're getting so many views. So he has that. There's 1300 guys there. He says, every stand. Every dude stand up who's been. He shared his sexual abuse story. And they said, any man in the room who's been. By this time, everybody's very honest. Like, we fucking bored. The room was so open with each other and says, stand up. If you were sexually abused as a young man. And There was about 70 guys.

Stand up.

And he says, all right, I'm gonna ask you a really hard question. Stand up. If you actively are struggling with porn, like 700 guys, stand up.

Wow.

So here's where the question comes, because it's interesting because I asked him, I said, I was talking to Mason about it. I was. Okay, so the porn addiction problem is a problem for sure. And it's. Young men are like. It's even worse for the young generation. But if you look inside of it, what is causing this? For example, if you and I are having sex frequently, I don't even think to go to porn. It's not even a thought that would register. It's not like I wake up and be like, wow, I just had amazing sex in my life that night. Last night, it's 12 o', clock, I should look at porn. It doesn't even register. But when I would go to porn mentally, and actually was when we were.

In long droughts of sexuality, also to connection, too, right? Because we would have. Who is our friend calls it pincushion sex. Mercy sex.

Oh, you. We got a new term for it. Ready?

What?

Duty booty.

Duty booty.

It's like chore sex.

Yeah.

Duty booty.

Duty booty. There's always a name.

Oh, you got some duty booty, bro.

But that's what I'm saying. I can. I can even imagine a guy who's maybe he's getting sex every other day, but it's duty booty. There's no connection there. So then he's probably thinking about the hot stripper in the porn. He's like. Or maybe he's not like that attracted to his wife. I mean, I don't know, maybe there's like attraction, connection, but then there's like this still desire of like a hot porn star.

I don't think there's one person who's ever had sex in marriage and not thought about another person or some other image or something while having sex.

Right.

Can you admit this? Yeah, of course. Me too. So it's like. It's not like that would be abnormal to have those thoughts. But here was. The question came because I'm like, okay, I'm going to back this up with some other interesting data, some research we've been doing, because I'm trying to uncrack this code. I'm like, okay, what's. What is causing? What is the cause? It's like, we talked about a few shows back about. Back about all women and Society wants to talk about men's reactivity by conveniently avoiding all women's activity that causes said reactivity. That's not the topic for today, but you guys know exactly what I'm talking about. Every gentleman knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's a lack of accountability and ability to say sorry and take ownership for anything. And the minute a man tries to call a situation right now, all of a sudden she's recalling from six months ago, three years ago, four years ago, and all of a sudden somehow reframes the whole goddamn thing gaslights the out of you.

And it's just. You're like, where the am I?

So then you're just like, I'm not gonna say. I'm just gonna sit right here because if I keep saying shit, I'm not gonna get laid tonight. So you just shut your mouth and smile and say, you're right.

It's very smart reactivity leads to less. Less action.

If you just got rid of sex drive, the relationships would be totally different.

There's sometimes like, you you're reacting to just be like, there's sometimes you're reactive. And I'm like, he's really gonna mess this up for himself to tonight.

But what if it's actually a mess things up in a good way?

No, it never is. But what I do is I kind of don't want it to mess it up for me because it's not even about sex. I'm like, okay, I wanted to have a good time. It's date night, and now we didn't. We're gonna wake up and be like, what the hell happened? Why did we get in that stupid argument? So for me, I'm like, it's not even like, oh, I gotta get laid. I get to this point where I'm like, I'm not having this argument. And we are having sex tonight. So I'll kind of like either, like end it, walk away, or say, try to make it funny, and then we end up, and then we're fine.

So here's the question.

Okay, but I'm saying I can sense reactivity. And instead of me being reactive back, I usually am like, no, we this we. He's being reactive. I said something that's obviously causing a trigger. I can be reactive back and then neither of us win.

What if you just said sorry in.

In the moment? Why would I say sorry?

Because you're wrong.

No, like, if you're reactive and you're yelling at me, I'm like, I'm sorry. You're so reactive.

That's the problem, though.

I'm sorry you're so angry about this.

That's a chick move, which is if a man speaks with directness to his wife, calling out a situation immediately. The woman.

I love when I say.

I don't like your tone. I'm not having this.

I love when I say, stop yelling at me. And you're like, I'm not yelling at you. I don't know why you think this is yelling. I'm not yelling at you. I'm like. Your voice just went up, like, 10 octaves.

10 octaves. You know what 10 octaves up is? Now you're exaggerating like a motherfucker. I did not. I get direct.

Yeah, that's your. That's you. I'm just direct. I'm like, wow.

It's when. It's when a woman is held accountable for her words. Women, as a general rule.

But we're not wrong, so why should we say sorry?

Exactly. My case in point. This is why we just go back to four crayons and we're like, put your. Put your.

Well, that's when we're like, hey, exactly. And we're like, yeah, I'm not sorry. And you want to get laid, so stop being reactive.

It's a superpower. It's bullshit, but it's a superpower. God bless.

You win in the end.

I do win in the end.

Yeah.

Sometimes. Occasionally. Three times.

What were you talking about?

So here's a question. If a woman primarily is after safety and security, so a dude marries. I saw your beautiful eyes at 18. You come through the door, and you look at me, and I'm like, oh, my God. And I'm like, all I'm thinking about is, this is the opportunity. As she is. This woman is the greatest. Then we go play volleyball. You're wearing a little green belly shirt with the short denim shorts.

I did something right that day.

Pierced. And your ear was all barred out with tons of earrings. And I was like, this fucking girl's insane. I didn't want you to be anything more than this or that. I was like, I want that. That right there. That's what I wanted. I was like that. You this. I just wanted that.

You want me to get my ear pierced? My bar.

Sure. Do it again. I'm down.

Cut my hair. All spiky?

Yes. Are you kidding me? I thought you got your nipples pure. She tricked the shit out of me.

Oh, that was funny.

Yeah. Well, I come in.

Thanks, Jen. Thanks, Jen, for the fake nipple pads.

Jen gives her the fake nipple pads. I come into the.

They're like stickies with nipple. Like, they look like you have your.

Nipple sticks for the nipples, but they got a bar on them. So she's wearing a tank. She hands them to me.

She goes, I think you might have fun with these. I go, oh, he's getting pranked real good tonight.

I had all kinds of mixed emotions about it. I mean, I walked in, you're wearing a white tank top, and it's just. It's impossible not to seal it.

They look real.

And you're smiling with your arm, like, ranged up against the wall, and my daughters are in the bed, and you're standing there. I'm.

You were, like, excited and distraught at the same time.

No, I was like. I was trying to calculate. I was like. I was with her most of the day. When the hell did she go get her nipples pierced? How'd she pull this off? This afternoon, did someone come to the house and piercing nipples? Ooh, that hurts. Get them, like, ooh, yeah, but they're kind of hot. Turning on right now. I'm not sure how to feel about this whole thing. If she did it, that's great. If she didn't, how the fuck does she have nipple piercings in. So here's Back to the point. Thank you for the distraction. So I wanted that, but you looked at me as an opportunity for what value I could provide. Meaning you looked at me for who you thought I could become. I looked it for you, who you are.

I also thought you were kind of at the time when we met. Like, I might have had, like, the crazy hair and, like, the bar piercing and the belly button piercing, but, like, I kind of felt the same way with you. Because, mind you, we were living in Orem, Utah.

Like, it's, like, such a wild place.

No, it's like. It's like Mormon county for you.

Can't even order a double tequila.

You can't? Well, it's just. It's a very tight bubble. So anyways, I had just come out of, like, kind of a wild, partying summer. Mind you, I'd never really partied before at all in high school. And randomly after I graduated, I was like, yeah, I'm going to. I think I'm going to party every day. But I met you, and I was like, God, somebody who's normal. Like, everybody down there was just, like, so plastic and fake and full of. I'm like, you're over there having sex with, like, five other girls, but you show up and you're in church and you're. So. I like that you had kind of this bad boy look, but you were very real. So I think that you. To me, it was like, you're. It was like bad boy, but it was also your authenticity. Like, I was like, here. Oh, finally, somebody who shows up who's, like, doesn't just want to get in my pants, but he actually wants to, like, connect and talk and communicate, and he's fun.

So I did want to get in your pants.

Yeah, I knew.

Well, I mean, it wasn't the only thing I wanted to do.

Okay, well, that's what I'm saying.

It was on.

Dated guys were like, that. You. You. It was very clear that was the agenda. And I was like, I can't even. You're hot, but I can't even have a conversation with you.

I get it. So. So here's the reason. Bring this up. I think that the reason why most marriages are struggling with sex and struggling with passionate connection is because. Hear me out. Most married women do not actually love the man they're with, and they never have.

Ooh. Maybe they just.

They made a decision that is primal inside as a woman, which has existed from the beginning of time. Think about how it was like back in the Viking. How was back?

I don't know how it was.

Well, I watched a lot of movies and read a lot of shit, so I'll just tell you how it goes. They would invade a little city, come into place, kill all the dudes, take the young boys as prisoners and slaves, kill the old dudes, and they would rape and take all the women. Meaning all the women immediately became the women of the new men. So, like, there was a. There's a natural order with this energy of protect your kids, particularly all the single moms. Now, they want to feel this primal connection, but will actually default to Mary, who's safe and secure and can guarantee providing protection and resource and security.

I hear you on that.

This is why they don't want to have sex with these guys.

Well, I. That might.

Because they're like. They're not actually attracted to the dude.

That would be true for some women, but not all. I will just tell you, like, I had. I was dating a kid in high school who was like, his grandpa was, like, one of the wealthiest people in the US and everyone was like, will, come to me. And they're like, oh, my gosh, you're going to be set for life. That's so exciting. And I remember thinking, I have no intention to marry him. Like, because in. In Utah, I was like, you go on mission, you ask people to wait. Then I was like. I almost was like, oh, like, this sounds bad, but I. I knew I wasn't going to be with him. There was like. There was. I just knew I wasn't. I was like, I have no desire to marry him. And even if I would be set, people would say that, and I'm like, I don't want to marry him. So that. Although you're, like, saying, oh, this is inherently true for me, it was not. I mean, if you think about it, I met you. What was safe and secure about you?

Everything.

If anything, you were the wild card. Like, you were 25 years old, divorced, had a kid, and you had a 700 car piece of shit. What is safe and secure about you?

Just everything. God within me. God within me.

I'm so sorry. I'm kind of calling bullshit out on your theories.

No, no, no.

At least for me.

Okay. Of course for you. You're with me. We're unicorns. This is why we run the.

But here's what I would say. I also know I got to finish.

Were you attracted to me?

Yes.

Are you still attracted to me?

Yeah.

A lot or a little?

Depends on the day.

Oh, my God. Why are you pausing right now?

Sometimes the attraction factor is higher.

When is it higher? Tell me, when is it higher?

It's higher when, like, we've been hanging out more on vacation. I feel like we're just like, a good space. Like, if we're in a good space, we've spent, like, good connective time together. You'll walk into room. Ask any woman. When you're connected to your man and he walks in the room, he physically looks cuter. You're like. You're cute. If we're not connected, is that a sexual thought?

You have more, like an emotional heart.

You literally. You could, like, you can walk into a room, like, ooh. Like, you get, like, kind of the butterfly.

Like, your nipples. Yeah. I don't know. What? I'm not a woman. I don't know.

Sexual. But it's more just like, oh, he's my man. You know, it could be sexual. Like, you're, like, excited to see him. You're like, if this happens tonight, that's great, too.

Did you have the thought, like, I hope he just takes me now.

Every girl has that thought.

You have that thought? Yeah, like, take.

Every girl wants to be taken at some level.

Like, you want your clothes just ripped off right then.

But. But it can't be weird. You Got to get away. You can't, like, slap her ass and then take your clothes off. Like, guys, Guys could never really. I think guys couldn't do that. We have this. Women have this fantasy in their mind of wanting to be taken, but the reality is, if their man tried to come up and take him, I'd be like, why are you taking my shirt off? This is so weird.

That's why you watch fifty Shades of Gray.

So we fantasize about it. But if you actually were like, come here. I'd be like, whoa. It's like, what are we doing?

You know, there's like, there's tons of studies have been done by about women on this that that one of the top three or four fantasies for women sexually is being raped.

Ew.

But it's not about being raped. It's about complete submission. It's like, the aggressive nature of it. I'm not saying that it's not rape.

That's kind of a heavy word.

This is what he said.

It was literally, Submission is probably a better word.

In the same polling company that did this, they also surveyed women about, if you could only choose to have a bear or a man in the woods, who would you choose? And they said, a bear. I was like, okay, that's not real.

Like a bear?

Yeah, they said a bear. No, I'd rather be with a bear than a man.

Okay.

Anyways, you and I, you and I are at a different level. We're doing things differently. So I'm not addressing this directly here. I'm addressing the constant. How could there be this much sexual chaos if women were actually attracted to the man they're with?

But I also think, too, I, I, it's all about, like, what you value. So if you're like, hey, I've dated guys that I was attracted to, and it didn't really go anywhere, then these women might default into, screw it. I'd rather just be taken care of. If this guy was originally attraction was there. Now all of a sudden, it's not there anymore, and he didn't provide for me, then I'll just go for safety and security. They, they don't consider that you can have both. But to keep that connection and attraction, it's work. It's work on both sides. Whether you're the victim or the villain or the not the victim. Whether, like, you're the hero or the villain or whatever. It's like you still play a role. I always say, like, you're still 50, part of the relationship. So if you allowed yourself to be Emotionally abused, whatever it is, like, you're still a part of that relationship, and you have to take action and accountability to make this relationship work, to keep that chemistry, to keep that attraction alive. So I think that's where women are like, oh, he turned into an asshole. And it's like, yeah, you didn't keep your chemistry alive, so you went with what was, what was more dependable.

Do you think if a woman doesn't, if she shuts down and doesn't put out consistently in marriage sexually, do you think that's a divorceable man? Should a man be able to divorce his wife because she doesn't have sex with him?

Here's what I will tell women. You're doing yourself a disservice by doing that, because there's. I, I, I think, I believe that men are more. Men need more sex than women. Now, maybe not all, but I would say, like, 90% of men, they need more sex more than women. And so if that's the case, I know you react different to me when we're having frequent sex. You're sweeter, you notice me more. You help with the kids, you help with the dishes. Like, I, I. So I tell women all the time, I'm like, withholding is not in your benefit. I'm like, because you naturally do these things without me having to ask if you're getting more frequent sex.

Yeah.

So for me, I understand that. And so when I find women that are, you know, in this resentful space, I'm like, you're not doing yourself any favors. So either fix your relationship or get out. And that's where I had gotten to with us. As I was like, we were in therapy years ago, and I was like, God, he thinks I don't want connection. He thinks I don't want good sex. He thinks I don't want. I'm like, I want this. But guess what? I also want safety and security. I want to be taken care of. Like, that's part of it. But I prioritize connection versus the safety and security. I still expected and want it. But to me, I think I realized, like, for me, like, my soul was dying if I didn't have that connection, I can't. You could buy me the diamonds and the cars and this and that, but at some point, that's hollow. So although I want safety and security, that's not, like, the first thing I look for. I also am a fairly confident woman to know that I could provide enough for myself to have a good life. So in a way, I think it's important for women to understand that you have to kind of create your own safety and security. And it's. You shouldn't fully depend on a man to do that for you. Yes. Do I love that you take care of our family? Amazing. It allows me to be a mom, be more feminine, not have to stress about it. I'm more myself when I'm not in that stressful mode of like, I've got to protect and provide for the family. I think that is the man's responsibility. But in the end, it's like women that just go marry for money, essentially, they're losing out on life. They're hollow. And like I said, I've experienced it myself when we've been disconnected. And I was like, you can fucking take all the cars and house and the diamonds. I don't care. Like, I literally don't care. And when you can own that piece, then you realize that you can create whatever you want.

That's solid.

Thanks.

Solid. I got one last question for you to end this episode.

You didn't even answer my question.

What was your question?

I was like, where do you see man in the arena?

We've been talking about it the whole time. What are you talking about?

Where's your question?

So today's generation thinks it like, has two different thoughts about paying. What about paying for shit?

Okay, paying for shit. Oh, I know what.

But let me give you the question. So should a man pay for dinner and dates, et cetera? Like, should a man pay for this? Like, I'm not talking about teenagers. I'm talking about established older people. 20s, 30s, 40s, dating, going, living, etc, like, should they should the man, is it his responsibility to pay for dates and pay for the that they're doing?

I don't know if it's response his responsibility, but I think it's very attractive. If I were single in my 20s, 30s, whatever, you and somebody, a man.

Asked me out if you were single now, I died, got shot, sure.

But if you're asking me out, if you're inviting me somewhere, then I'm assuming that you're going to pay. It's like for my kids, I'm like, hey, invite your friend bowling. I'm not like, did you bring your money for bowling? No, I invited you as my guest. Of course I'm going to pay. So it's less about like paying 50, 50. And for me it's like, if a man invites you to dinner, isn't he. He invited you, say you go to.

Like, if you invited him to dinner, would you pay.

Is. So if I invited him, imagine I.

Wouldn'T do that by a truck today. And you're on a date, like, six months.

If I invited a guy, if I invited a hot dude to dinner and he didn't pay, I'd be like, oh, he's not interested in me. No problem.

Okay, got it. So there is. No matter what the game is, there is a piece who wants the man to pay.

Yeah.

Okay, fair enough. Do you. On the flip side of this, if that's this, if that's understanding, this was a serious conversation. I was having a group of men and women, and I was like, interesting perspectives around the vibe here. So most of the women had the same response, which is they determined, yes, dude should pay. And then the flip question was asked, which was interesting. And I was like, oh, that's a good question. Under that premise, does a man have the right then in a dating situation to ask for sex?

How about, like, a kiss first? I mean, like, one dinner doesn't equal sex.

Well, I'm just saying if the obligation is men should pay, then does the obligation go the other way that the woman should play?

I think, is paid to play is this basic process. But, like, here's. Here's the thing. Like, you say you go out with a guy and he buys you dinner, and you have a good time, and you connect. You're, like, cool. Like, I'm attracted to you. I'm gonna. We're gonna make out. We're gonna kiss, whatever. Say you're on, like, your third or fourth day, and he keeps showing up. These dates are nice. You're feeling seen and heard. Sure. Then the woman's naturally gonna want to kind of pursue that with the guy. So it's. If. If they're not, and it's kind of like a 50, 50 thing. And they're like, every time you go to dinner with this hot guy, and he's like, all right, you got your card. At least for me, I'd be like, this is going nowhere. We're just friends. He's putting me in the friend zone. It's unattractive that he's not paying. And even if he's a hot piece of ass, I don't want it that bad. See you later.

If you're bored on a weekend, he might.

I mean, he'd have to have, like, it's. That's not dating, then that's just a hookup. Like, if there's. If I'm single, which I'm not, and.

I'm Only if I get Hit by a truck or somebody murders me when I'm going someplace that ain't going to happen.

Listen, there's been a lot of girls that get divorced, and they, like, they're like, oh, I went on my bender. Good for you. Yeah, like, good for you. So I'm not going to say that, like, wouldn't be the case. But you act. You asked about, like, dating and taking someone who should pay.

Oh, there's the bender.

And then, yeah, there's the bender. You're like, nobody's going anywhere for dinner. We're meeting up at 11:30, and we've got a focused job to do. So, like, call it what it is. Like, you're like, I just.

It's good to know what would happen if I.

You and girls make up nicknames for those guys. I'd be like, my trainer. I'd be like, How's 12 pack? Was 12 pack good? She's like, oh, you have no idea. Like, she. I'm not like. I'm not, like, asking.

Like, it goes both ways.

Yeah. I'm not like, how's that? How's Jeremy? Did you have a wonderful time? I'm like, how was it? Was it good? How were Zabs?

Listen, we got. I got a few relationships are close. I'm like, we just have nicknames for his situation. Squirter Mirror Girl, Triple Taco.

Too far, Too far, Too far.

Oh, well. Okay. So this show, Too Far was not too far. It was perfect. And it brings up, like, all these fundamental, interesting dynamics that go on in relationship. And the coolest thing I think about our relationship is the fact that we have literally raised each other, meaning we have gone through every gamut of the game from 20s to 30s. Now you're just in your 40s, being hot. Owning that you're in your 40s. Finally. 42, solid, young, hot, in her 40s. All right, well, forever. You were, like, not accepting it. You were in your 40s. You're gorgeous. You should be like, yeah.

I think as I got older, I actually started taking better care of myself. So, like, I. And when I was, like, in the thick of things with, like, salon world, I just didn't take care of myself. I think I look better now.

Like, best you've ever looked.

Like, I'm like, I. I'm more fit.

Like, best you've ever looked.

Had lots of fillers and botox have.

Really More powerful than you ever been. Hotter than you've ever been.

I think that there's. I feel more certain in myself, too.

Yeah.

So I I'm sure that that, like, I don't know if I don't mind saying I'm 42, because I feel like I can pass for 28. Maybe not 28, but, like, 35. I'm gonna go with maybe 35 if.

You want to pierce your nipples. I'm not against it.

Okay. Thanks, Jen. I love you.

Thank you, Jen. All right, Liz, we're gonna wrap this show up. So here's the deal. Today's topic was all over the place for you, and we're hoping that it has a fun conversation. We were actually sitting at a restaurant at the Built. No Del. What the is it called here? Right by us. Belmont.

Belmont something.

The Diplomat.

Diplomat.

We were the Diplomat. We had a couple from Mississippi come up to us, a SWAT police officer and his wife, and they were huge fans of the show, and we got to talk to him at the hotel. This happens was actually. We go everywhere now where we're meeting couples who are fans of the show. And one of the things they said the most about was, we love your show because you guys just continue to keep it so real, because that's how real life is. And what we really want from this show is you to find permission to have open dialogue with your spouse, to be able to talk about anything and everything from dark fantasies to light fantasies to pains to fears to doubts, to worries, to concerns, but that there's a foundation of truth in your relationship. So the best way you can help us out with this show is share it up with your friends. So if you got people who, you know, need to hear this conversation, and it's more about the energy of openness, like most couples we're around cannot talk this open alone, let alone live on a podcast. And we do it for a reason, which to give you permission to start doing the same thing at home behind closed doors, when it's just you two having a conversation going on a date night. So thank you for doing that. On top of this, Danielle has something she'd like to say.

I do?

I don't know. You looked at me like you had something to say. You have something to say?

Oh, no. I was just watching you. Okay.

Danielle's hot as shit, and she has a new book coming out called Big Money Styles.

I have two books coming out, but.

Two? You have a second one?

I. Yeah. God is my ghostwriter. That's more of, like, a method. That's like, a memoir of, like, basically my life from, like, being raised the way we were over. Like, it's my story, but it's kind of talking about overcoming limiting beliefs and becoming like the best version of me essentially, but still ongoing process. So it's kind of like a memoir teaching thing. And then I have one called Big Money Stylist, which is a business book for artists or hairstylists, and that one will come out next month. Super excited about both. Totally.

You go on Studio Record Audiobook this week?

Yep, I do.

Let's go. All right, so listen, wake up. Warrior is the background of all of this as well as the Man Arena Tour. Next Man Arena Tour events coming up in May. You can learn more about or excuse me, September of 2025, be at the Miami Arena. You can learn more about it by going manandarenatour.com also pick up a free copy of Warrior Book. We have right around 75 to 100 of these books go out every single day to men all over the world who are coming to learn how to live the warriors way. It's a great place to start. It's a very simple place to start. I'd love to give you that book for free. Go to warriorbook.com and that my friends, wraps up another up and down roller coaster and circus olay of the date your wife podcast.