Why we left the Mormon Church

I go to the salon today, and we're getting ready to film, and Crystal goes, so, heard you're gonna be a grandma. Like, she. Like, look at her. And I go, you shut the up right now. She starts laughing at grandma. I just barely accepted 40.

Okay, well, it's all coming at you fast. And now you'll be able to say, you know, tips and tricks for keeping it young and sassy, Grandma.

Okay, but here's.

There you are on video doing, posing at, like, a fitness, right?

I'm like, hey, I'm a grandma in compet. Yeah. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the date your wife podcast, grandma and grandpa edition.

Ooh, Grandma and grandpa edition. Gonna be a grandpa.

You're not gonna be a grandma. Don't say that.

Not gonna be a grandpa. Although Daniel's finally come to terms with her being in her 40s.

No, I just was like, now that I'm 40, I'll be 41 in April. And I was like, when I tell people I'm in my 40s, you're like, really? But I didn't tell him I just turned 40.

You're leveraging it.

So now I leverage it.

I'm like, being 40.

I know. And now I'm like, I look good now. I'm like, I'm. I look good for 40, so it's fine.

Tell them how you're leveraging being 40 now.

Well, I'm just like. Like, using his skincare tips. In your 40s, how to maintain your physique in your 40s.

You were, like, so resistant to it.

Forever, I guess after five kids, I was like, okay, we're doing it. This is where we're.

Well, not. So to be honest, I mean, you've had moments with sitting by yourself where you're like, I'm definitely not 20 anymore. You've had moments where you're like, you know, you're. I think, you know, you're in your 40s.

I think I still look young for my age. I think it's, like, experience and knowledge and everything we've gone through that I'm like, oh, I need to give myself some credit for reps in life. Like, I'm like, I'm not, like, 28 anymore, you know? And, like, I think I look great. But, like, my. I. My experience in life has made me even wiser than 40. I feel like. I feel like. I'm like, we were joking around the other day. You're like, you don't have any. Like, you're gonna be like one of those girls, like, Going on walks with all these ladies, I'm like, yeah, except for I relate to, like, older ladies.

Yeah. But you. But I mean, let's come back to this whole. You're now claiming the 40s because you were completely against. You'd even get upset about the fact that I told you you were 40. Then something has occurred as you're about to turn 41, where you now started. You saw the advantage of being like, I'm gonna claim I'm in my 40s so that people look at me now, think I look very young from my 40s, instead of clinging to your 30s.

So let's tell them. The big news is Parker, our oldest son, 24, got engaged over the weekend, which I. Well, he actually got the ring. This is. I'll tell this story really quick. So last year, in the summertime, he's saying, hey, I want to propose to Taylor. And we're like, oh, my gosh, that's so great. And he doesn't know where to go get his ring and all this stuff. And I introduce him to our jewelry guy and one of our jewelry guys, and I'm like, okay. He. He's like, the ring that I'm telling him, he gets, like, way out of his budget. Long story short, this was in the middle of. I wanted to redo your ring for our 20th anniversary. So I. Long story short, I ended up giving Parker my original band, and then he bought a new diamond to go in it. Well, then they broke up 19 more times eight. And I thought he was gonna sell the ring at one point, and I was like, do you want me to buy it back? I'm like, I don't want you to sell it. It's kind of sentimental for me. And then so. So he goes ghost. He goes so quiet. And you knew? And I was so bugged. He didn't tell me. I was like, ah, the guy helped you pick out the ring, and now, like, all of a sudden, you're engaged.

But I was. I didn't tell anybody.

So he did come to you and tell you, though?

Yep. And I was very proud of myself. I didn't tell anyone. I didn't even tell Bailey. He told Bailey, but he said, like.

Hey, dad, I'm planning this out. It's gonna happen. Were you like, wow.

Yeah.

Were you shocked? A little bit.

No.

Oh.

Because he'd been keeping me updated through the last, like, six months about what was going on, how they were still undercover, even though they weren't talking on anybody. They were still meeting and connecting, See?

And I didn't know. I was like. I didn't know they had moved back in together because I just thought they.

Were, like, back in together.

Oh, they had it.

No, not until now. Now they're engaged.

Okay.

She would gone back and lived with her parents. So I got another daughter now.

You got another daughter?

Taylor White.

That's wild.

Taylor White's going to be my fifth daughter. Yeah, I like her a lot.

Yeah, I know. I never did not like her. It's just. I always tell Parker, I'm like, how are we feeling? Where are we at in the relationship? I'm always like, hey, team Parker. But, like, where we at? Like, I just need to know I'm.

Not difficult as a parent because, like, we were there during breakups, and so we always take our son's side, and we're like, okay, you know what? And we would say things that would come back to bite us later. And finally, that's when I got to a place where I think he stopped telling us because he didn't want to keep getting crossfire and it was better for him. It's a hard situation as a parent because you tell your parents.

Yeah. And then they don't like the other partner.

Just like, you know. Yeah, I've done that. I'd done that before.

I actually, that was the one thing I felt like I did right in our marriage. And I. Whenever we were in conflict, I was like, I'm not gonna go talk to my mom about this. Just, you know, because this works out, then she's gonna think negative of him. And so I just. I always didn't just bottle it up. Didn't really. At least I would tell friends, like, when we were dating stuff. I think I would tell, like, some of my girlfriends. But I never, like, went and, like, told my mom, but I was, like.

Very much into, like, had a relationship where I felt like I had to share everything with my mom. And that ended probably about the time I was 35. So about 12 years ago.

You told your mom everything?

Not everything, but I just felt like I had to, like, include my mom and let her know there was a piece of me is still trying to impress my mom. There's an entire psychological thought that goes along with this. A book actually called Iron John, which talks about this premise that the mother holds the key to her son's, like, masculinity, like, his manhood, and that he has to take the key from his wife, his mother, to become the man he's supposed to become. Which ultimately is a saying a man has to turn away from his mother. Like she births him and then he has to turn away. I don't have any boys to turn him away. We even got Parker. But Parker obviously is my son directly bloodline and his like emotionally soul level. You've been able to have a different relationship with him.

It's crazy. It's crazy though, because I still think of him as being so young and I'm like, wait, how old are you? And he's like 24. And I'm like thinking of Taylor's like, she's still 18 and she's gonna be 21. I'm like, oh my gosh. And then I'm like, well, I got married at 20. And so then I asked her a question. I was like, do you like, so do you, do you guys think, are you gonna want kids soon? She's like, oh, I've always wanted to be a young mom. And I was like, wait, wait, this needs to be a group conversation.

Sure, grandma by 43.

But it's wild to me. I'm like, I have a two year old. I have a two year old. So I'm gonna have like a, I'm gonna have like a five year old and a grandbaby. Actually, I love babies.

If Isla was 6, Charlie was 4, and then you have a. No, Ida was 6, Charlie was 4,and then you end up, we have a grandbaby that's like one that's weird.

I go to, I go to the.

Salon, taking the baby and taking the grandbaby. I'll be like, having our own baby.

I go to the salon today and we're getting ready to film. And Crystal goes, so heard you're gonna be a grandma. Like she look her and I go, you shut the up right now. She starts laughing.

Why are you feeling bad?

I just apparently accepted 40. Okay, well, it's all coming at you fast.

And now you'll be able to say, you know, tips and trips for keeping it young and sassy. Grandma, there you are on video doing posing at like a fitness, right?

I'm like, hey, I'm a grandma in competitions. Okay, here's what's crazy though is I felt like they like, well, this is like one thing that I want to talk about on the show because I always say, like, kids aren't going to fix your problems. They're not necessarily. They're not. If like you're in a sticky spot in your sit your relationship, like kids aren't going to be the fix. And we our first baby, I mean, I got pregnant at 24, actually 23. And I miscarriage, miscarried, and then got pregnant at 24, had Bailey. And that was definitely planned. I didn't feel like our relationship was bad at that point. We were still pretty newly married. And then I remember feeling very disconnected. I loved Bailey. Like, I was so happy. I had, like, I probably, like, I remember some of my happiest times was being a mom. Like, I just loved Bailey. And I remember our relationship got kind of rocky. But the, like, the plan was like, especially being raised in Utah, in family culture, it was like, no, you have. You pop out a baby every two, three kids, two, three years. That's what you do. So at that two year mark, I start to feel all this pressure, even though our relationship is not doing good. And I remember even thinking, I remember thinking, like, I don't know if I want to be married to him, but I really want another baby. And I remember even thinking, well, maybe if we have another baby, that'll bring us back together, that'll make us closer. And I knew I was in really big trouble. When I'm nine months pregnant and you tell me you have an emotional affair with somebody else, then I'm like, oh, my gosh, like, we were really not in a good spot. And I'm thinking, like, I. I'm thinking like, I'm gonna have another baby and it's gonna fix the problem. And part of me, like, thinks like little Ruby, her second daughter, that maybe she kept us together because I don't know where we would be. Like, I was in a very vulnerable space being nine months pregnant and kind of hearing this news and being a hairstylist and like, all the, you know, how am I gonna provide now I've got two kids. Like, what. What am I gonna do?

Yeah.

So had you, you know, told that to me not being pregnant and maybe I was successfully doing hair. I don't know if I would have stayed, you know, for sure.

I mean, I don't think. I think if we didn't have Ruby, I don't think we'd have stayed married.

Yeah, there wouldn't. She would. In a way, it's like, I think we both tried to keep our marriage alive because now we had two kids.

That gave us a reason. So on one side, you know, you've got the idea that a relation, a kid, won't change a relationship, meaning it's not going to make it better. But I, in some ways, like, having kids actually keeps people more committed for a period of time. Yeah, maybe I keep them committed For a long period of time. But it keeps them committed. More committed than if you don't have kids.

Right, right.

Which I'm meeting several people, like, recently, couples that don't want any kids. Like, my barber doesn't want any kids. Him and his wife Runar, one of the guys who works for me and the girl he's with, they don't want any kids. There's quite a few couples now and I'm around that don't want any kids. And it's hard for me to imagine having a life without kids, having our life and no kids, so quiet. It'd be so weird.

I'll see that another day. Because I was like, oh, wait.

But of course there's a thought. It'd be nice. But it'd be so weird because we've had kids in our life, like, for the past, you know, 18 years, forever. And, like, with Parker, now that he's back in our world, you know, it's like he's been active in our world for. Since he's 18 now. He's almost 25. So, like, seven years. We've aggressively had him as a son here in our life. And then we've had Bailey and Ruby and Charlie and Isla. It's just like, it's a lot. It's a lot. We, like, we were joking around, like, and I thought somebody told you this, but you were like, no. Like, are you just like. We're using it as a statement, which is people, like, have an opinion about how we parent with nannies now in our ways. But we wanted a decision to have two more kids.

Yeah.

Yeah. Kind of God's like, hey, we're gonna reset it. We're like, we're not trying to play this game. Like, we're at 23 and broke nothing. Like, I can't emotionally handle.

Right.

Trying to run the game that I'm doing. Because back when we first had kids, I mean, yeah, I was running my own companies, but at the same time.

We were young and young and 20 something.

And just.

And also Clue also, too. Like, I remember when I was pregnant with Charlie, which is my fourth daughter, I was just, oh, wow. I mean, I had her at 38, which is still somewhat young, but I knew I'd be raising toddlers in my 40s. And I'm thinking, like, I remember looking at you when we were in the hot tub, and I was like, I know. I said, we have, like, a second set of kids. I said, but we're gonna live life like we're retired now. I was Like, I don't, I feel too good physically. I'm not waiting until I'm in my 60s to experience life. Which means, yeah, I'm gonna be involved in my kids life, but I'm gonna accept help. And you know what's so crazy is moms. I will tell you this. Cause I am a mom of four kids. My. When I had my first, first two kids and had very little help, it wasn't a lot of quality time. It wasn't, it was juggling. You're like cleaning the house, you're doing the laundry, you're shuffling around, you're trying to go to the gym, you're trying to create your mommy blog, you're trying to have purpose for you. It's. There's little moments where you connect to your kids, but really you're kind of like shuffling them around. And I have a hard time believing that like qualified staff that loves your children. Hate to say this to you moms, they might actually do a better job than you do. That doesn't mean you don't love your kids any less or your kids don't love you any, but hire a professional who actually is gonna give your kids what they need and feel nurtured. And so I've noticed with my two younger kids that I can tell that they feel love, right? Even though I am working a lot or like full time coverage, I'm like, I still feel that they feel love because there's a lot of focused attention on them versus like my other two kids. Like I said, it was just juggling them back and forth and at the end of the day just trying to muster up enough energy to do like bedtime, which usually I was like passing them off to, you know, that's a lot.

I mean, it's a lot. Like when, when we came to. There's so many stories that we play in as individuals and as couples and in marriage that you have to do it this way. And based on how you're raised or your parents did things, there's.

That you should suffer.

This is how it is. And so when we came to have these other, our last two children, it was just that your, your, your perspective or your frame on it was very helpful because even I was in the place of playing it like I'd seen all our parents play, which is burn yourself out on your kids. And then hopefully in your 60s, you got some energy left and you can try to go do some shit. And you're like, no, no, we're gonna live it now. And I watch what Happens with Isla and Charlie. They have more love and more guidance and more time with adults who care about them 247 than any of our other three kids did. Like, Parker, Bailey and Ruby did not get the kind of love and guidance when they were young because we were so young and we were trying to hustle and struggle to just to keep things afloat and move. You're not spending time. And when parents see this, like, I confronted one of my guys about some stuff he was doing with his kids, he's like, well, I can't do this in the morning because I got to do this with my kids. And I said, can I ask you something? He said, yeah. Does that time really pay off?

Yeah. Yeah.

He's like, what do you mean? I was like, you're hustling kids back and forth between sports practices. He said, well, you know, sometimes we have the conversation. I said, yeah, but if you're honest, how often are they just plugged into their phones and you're transporting them and you're quality time phone calls while you go and you're not paying attention to their sports because you're doing emails in the parking lot or in the gym? I was like, being honest with yourself, like, how, like, how connecting is it really? And he's like, well, you know, I mean, I guess we put it that way. It's not really. And I said, no. And when you actually look at the focus is the outcome is what I'm after and I'm not attached to the. The plan to get there.

Yeah.

But I'm committed to the outcome, which I want my kids feel loved. I want my kids to feel heard. I want kids to feel desired. And I want quality time with my kids when my kids feel my presence and feel my connection and I can feel the same thing with them. Well, you and I have more quality time with our kids now with help than we ever did before. And in the times where most parents are too fatigued and exhausted to give love to their kids and. And they default to hoping the kids will care for each other or they put them in front of a TV or iPad. We have professional, loving, powerful mommies in our house who guide love, construct, instruct, teach discipline, spiritual truths, etc. Guiding our kids with us. Our kids are better. I mean, they're better than they would be otherwise. They're way better. And we get to continue to grow and bond and fix our relationship.

I think what's helped me, I think, is, like, for women, there's a lot of, like, mommy guilt in that like, it's like, oh, you know, I have to. If I'm not working full time, then I should be with my kids full time. Right. And I don't even work full time. I think people assume I work, like, 60 hours a week. I'm like, I work, like, 15 to 20, if that. I'm like. And I still have full coverage. I'm like, but I also have four kids, and I want to make sure that I'm not, like, juggling everything all at once and that I can give them kind of, like, individual attention when needed. Yeah. Sometimes I have to give them an iPad and doing this and that, and that's fine. But, like, I just feel like, for me, what's helped get over that mommy guilt is the one thing that you just said is, like, what do you want the end result to be? Right? There's how we've been taught do things. There's how our parents did things. And then you're like, but that. Like, but did that give you the result you wanted? And so when I kind of look at it like that, I'm like, oh, okay, I. I can kind of, like, let go. Even, like, stupid things. Like in the beginning, when I used to clean the house before the cleaners got there, because that's what my mom did, right? I had to, like, let go of, like, okay, can I pay somebody to actually do my laundry? You're like, yeah, why can't you? I'm like, because I had this story that if I have time, I should be the one that wants to fold the laundry. But the reality is, I'd rather use my time more effectively, whether it's creating content or being my kids. Like, I had to let go of the guilt of even letting somebody else, like, do house. Housework. And now I'm like, okay. Like, sometimes I do laundry because I don't mind it. Sometimes, you know, like, it's just like, I'm kind of operating the space. Like, I'm just gonna do it because it gives me joy and value. And even, like, with my kids, like, if there's, like, a lot of times during the week that you don't see, but if I have, like, downtime, I don't have calls or anything, I'll be like, isla, you wanna go on a lunch date? You know? And she. She loves that. She's like, yeah. And then she'll ask me like, hey, mom, can we go on a lunch date? And I know just having that individ tension. Like, she'll remember that all week. Than if I'm kind of like juggling her around.

So this idea of your rules and your stories and your laws and your beliefs, all of this is frame control, right? So there's a frame through which we see the world. This frame dictates what we will and we won't do. It says what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. And so much of the way that we live as a couple and we live as a family completely spits in the face of our family's traditions. Like it's not only like a little bit different, it's like we shattered the box we were raised in and we moved to this other part of the galaxy and created a new frame and said we're going to do it this way. And interestingly enough, that's biblical. When God was asking Abraham to rise and Abraham was asking God for things, God was really simple. He was clear with him. He gave him three instructions. First instruction was I need you to leave your country, which is there's a way that you operate in, you've got to leave your country. Second was you need to leave your family, which is the story.

Leave or lead.

Leave, leave your family. Which for me translates out to there's a certain frame. I hold you in as my wife, I hold my kids in, as my children, I hold our family in. I have to leave that frame. My country is my whole world. I have to leave that world. And then the last one was, hey, Goss, Abraham, you need to leave your father's house, which is you have to let go of your parents ways of doing things. And those three things we had to do. We had to leave our country, Mormonism. We were raised in the world we operated in, everything. Two, we had to leave our relationship. We had to let our relationship die. It was not working, it was not serving. And we had to leave our father's house or our parents traditions and literally look to our own world and say, what do we want?

How can we create it?

How can we create it? How can we have the power of God, forgiveness and atonement to be able to bring that about? Like what does that need to look like? But this takes an incredible amount of courage to do this.

It takes an incredible amount of faith. It takes an incredible amount of work. I never really thought about it like that way. It's like I. What that boils down to is it just creates relationship off of like soul connection. Because you're like, I let go of all these past patterns, behaviors, cultures, countries, whatever it is. And it's like can we still build this life together.

You know, the promise that was interesting from God to Abraham was he said, okay, if you'll do this, and you'll leave the country, you'll leave your family, leave your father's house. If you do this, I'll bless those who bless you. I'll curse those who curse you. I'll go before your face, behind you, to your left, and to your right. And then here's the fun part. I will build you, me, as an individual, a great nation, or I'm going to build you to be a new man. I'm going to build you to be a new woman outside of this country you currently are addicted to, outside of the current containers and limitations you place on your marriage, your family, your kids, outside of the limitations you currently place on how life is because of traditions of your fathers.

You know what's so crazy is there's still people in our world that are like, oh, I hope the whites are okay. I'm like, are you fucking serious? Like. Like, they're like, oh, like they left the country. I hope they're doing okay and they didn't sell out to the worldly things of the world. And I'm like, are you serious right now? And I'll get comments, too, from family members. And they're like, how's it Bailey doing? We've been sure praying for her. We sure. We sure hope she's okay. I'm like, she's in Nashville right now crushing it. I'm like, yeah, she's pursuing her music career. I'm like, I'm leaning into that heavily as a mother for my daughter to pursue her passions. And I know she's not my child. She's God's child, and I'm here to guide her and lead her and direct her. And I knew that a long time ago. I knew that when she was three years old, the voice came to me very clear and said, she's not yours, she's mine.

Yeah.

And I was like, wow. But thank you for this gift. And so when I, you know, speaking about, you know, how we were raised to kind of realize that it's not this orthodox structure way that I. My kids must follow and understanding, like, they have their own callings, and I'm just kind of here to help support them and keep them safe while they're children, ultimately, they're. They're. They are their own little humans, and we will continue to learn from them. And so I had to drop all those old frames to even raise Bailey, the woman to who she'll become If I didn't, she might not have been able to rise because I would have stifled all of, you know, her passion. I would have never. To let your kid drop out of high school and just high school, middle school, middle school, and not only that, then pay for them to be doing this music path and career and then to have people come and they're like, is Bailey okay? And I'm like, I think so. And I always. I always say, I'm like, I'm not. I know it from the outside. You'd think I'd be, like, super stressed. I'm actually, like, fairly proud of her. And I know. I don't know when she's gonna figure it out. She's gonna figure it on her own terms. I know sometimes I'm very frustrated or things like that, but she's like, I feel like she'll figure it out. Like, I have faith that she'll figure it out. And I'm like, I feel like this weird calm that it's like, I know she's gonna be okay.

Well, she stepped into. I mean, just coming back from Nashville. She's having me today, and she asked about having a sit down this week about a plan, and she has a plan put together, what she'd like to present a plan about her, about her career, about this new agent slash manager, about Thomas, about, like, just the whole thing. I said, yeah, I'm totally. But I like that she's sitting down talking about it.

But I like putting the initiative together. It's like I'm not forcing her to do it. I knew. I knew it would, like, eventually would, like, kick in and click. But it's like I was kind of like, she's on her own, her own path. But the being, being who I was raised, I could have never, never. I could have never done that.

Here's the fact of the matter. If I was still, you know, 15 years since I left the Mormon Church, if I'm. If I'm a Mormon guy, I can't build what I built. I can't do what God called me to do. No possible way. My. My self righteousness and my judgment of the world and the judgment of the world of me would have never supported it. Like, I had to open up the container. God had to create such a massive frame for what he was in my life. And I tell guys this. I'm like, you put your constraints on God, you put your rules on God, and then you hold God in this small shot glass. And then you wonder why. Why is my life so small? Your life's so small because you've contained the power of God in heaven into this small shot glass. But if you open that shot glass up and make it bigger and you open up what God's possibilities in your life, you open up yourself to see this new possibility in yourself, the world just looks different. And it's, it's hard when you are in a shot glass relationship with yourself to imagine a warehouse life. You're like, I live in a shot glass. I don't live in a warehouse. What do you mean about this warehouse? That seems risky, that seems scary, that seems terrifying. And living in the warehouse, you're looking at people in the shot glass and you're going, do you not realize you're in a shotglass?

Yeah, yeah.

Like you live in a shot glass. Like, and you call it life. Like, how would I ever. And why would I ever want to constrain myself back into that shot glass? But it will never happen.

But it's hard. I like think of it. I always joke around. I'm like, you're like the narcissist. Like when we go to church and stuff, I'm like, your calling is, is different, right? You have to experience like almost this dark side of life to help these other men. And that's part of your calling. So isn't that wild to know to do the shit you're called to do, you kind of got to go to the dark shit to do.

Not just the calling. Like every man or woman who has ever been called from the beginning of time to do anything significant for God was a fuck up. These were not righteous, temple going, scripture quoting, perfect people. They were not pastors, they were not priests, they were not bishops. They were ups. Every major prophet up, every single apostle up. Every single massive leader in the Bible up. And then that up had a wake up and Saul became Paul. And all of a sudden everybody wants to talk about Paul. And so this pitch becomes be Paul. B. Paul B. Paul's like, you can't be Paul without being Saul. And that guy was a murderer, and that guy was a killer, and that guy was a savage who worked for the Jewish faith in killing and persecuting and attacking Christians who then pivoted to become the right hand guy for Christ. And you're like, hold on, you don't become that guy without being the up. Yeah, but everybody's so scared of it up.

Well, it's hard even take any chances.

So they sit in the shot glass life and they want to be Paul, but they can't even Understand what that's like, because they're just terrified sitting over here in their own little stuck bubble. And I get it because, listen, you were the one that taught me this. It's not like I'm not in a shot glass. My warehouse is just a shot glass to somebody else's reality. And they look at me in my warehouse. I think so warehouse. And they're like, you. Oh.

Oh, cute.

How's it feel to be that broke? And I'm like, you're right. How does that feel to be that, like, limited? And I'm like, you're right. So on the flip side, while I talk about the shot glass and the warehouse, there's always. My warehouse is a shot glass to another reality.

Well, that's because it's all about expansion. Like, that's. That's kind of the game. So it doesn't matter, like, where you're at and how you do things. It's all about expanding and growing. And so it just kind of goes back to, like, if we. I remember, like, when we were first deciding to leave the church, I was kind of, like, relieved in a way. I know that sounds weird, because it. It just felt like I was doing stuff because that was the culture, but it didn't feel like it resonated in my heart. And I just remember thinking, like, hey, everybody's path is different.

Yeah.

And so you have to follow whatever path you feel like is gonna give you, build you. Right. And if your path is being like, I joke around, but I'm like, you're like the narc. Like, if your path is. You have to go there, then to. In turn, to help go over here. But, like, for us, I always say, like, we just, like, dance on the edge, and then we come back. We can't go. You can't go, like, too dark or too deep. You know, you just have to. Just enough to where you're like, okay, pull us back out.

Well, the darkness gives you an ability to be empathetic. Like, you can to lead other people, to lead your kids, to lead your marriage. You have to have empathy. And empathy only comes through experience. Like, you can pretend. This is why they say Christ had to go beneath all things, to rise above all things. Christ had comprehension of all darkness. And in. Because he had comprehension of all darkness, he could have empathy for what that was and then offered up the gift of salvation as this gift to the pit of darkness. So when we walk around as human beings and we pretend like somehow our pit is a problem, it's not.

Yeah.

Our Pit is the path.

Our pit.

And pain is the purpose.

Sex. Going through it.

It's horrible.

Going through it.

Nobody wants to go through. Nobody wants to go through traumatic kids. Nobody wants to go through the trauma. We were talking about this in our own marriage. Like we, we look back at our path and people say, well, I want. I want a relationship like you. I don't want your relationship, but I want a relationship like you. I want to have what you have. And I'm like, when you and I slow down for five minutes and just review what we've had to do to become us, I look at people who are collapsing under the weight of small.

Yeah, yeah. Small things. Yeah.

Can't even do small consistently. And they're like, well, I just don't know what you know. I just want to get where you are. It's like you're never going to get rim.

But the funny thing, because you can't.

But because you're unwilling let go of your country, you won't let go of your family, you won't let go of your father's house. You worship your traditions and your dogma and your storylines and your narratives in a way that you. Keeps you hostage. Like, and that's why they coming into non denominational Christianity has been so wild for me because I have been in the depth of deep orthodoxical religion or even cult following and in that place, coming into non denominational Christianity, it's fun for me because of the fact that non denominational Christianity doesn't even realize it's its own religion.

I know they're like, they're non denomination.

Like, we're not a religion. I'm like, dude, you are as routine and structured as well.

Everything's a business, you know.

Well, that's another piece that's so fun. The, the church game is a.

It's a business. Yeah.

It's about. It's why.

Which isn't a problem.

I don't care if it is. But it's funny the pe but people like, that's the thing.

Because if you build a successful business, you're going to impact more people.

I will sit in groups where people run their mouth about the Mormon Church and then the same group of guys will then say, we need to do it like the Mormons. I was like, hey, dude, did you guys not share what you said? You were talking about business.

Yeah.

And now you're asking, saying we should probably build some of our structure the way the morning. Yeah. They're organized as hell. They're probably not an organization on the planet in the religious world, the most profitable. They say it's not a Christian church. It's the wealthiest Christian church.

If.

I'm sorry, for those listening, if you think Mormons aren't Christians because they have a Book of Mormon, you're in the dark. You have no idea what you're talking about. You've never investigated. You don't understand. They believe in Jesus Christ with a much passion authority as anybody else does. But they're the richest garden church in the country. Billions.

Because they're a business.

They. 82 billion in paper assets. $349 billion.

It's wild. It's wild.

It's. It's incredible. And like, local churches can't. Are just trying to value money to get a building.

Yeah, yeah.

And a woman's like, we'll just pay cash for that one and we'll pay cash for that one. And we'll just. We'll buy the whole city and then we'll buy that whole city and we'll just knock it down and build it up. So the point bring all this up as we wrap up the show as follow, no matter who you are, you're going to have to face the fear of shattering the frame. We're doing it right now.

I always say it's like, choose your pain. Right. It's like literally, choose your pain. You're kind of. You're already in a painful spot, but you're too afraid to leap to the next level. It's like, you know, you need to go. And so that in itself is like its own personal hell.

Yeah.

But yet you're unwilling to go.

Yeah.

And it's like you're. Are you just gonna wait to like, that tipping point is the threshold is so painful that you're finally like, okay, I'll put my toe in the water and try something new and try something better, different or whatever. They're like, well, that was scary. And it backfired. So it's like, what are you actually committed to doing? And what are you actually committed to? Who are you committed to becoming?

And our marriage has been exactly that. And that's a big challenge we have here. And what our whole entire stand is here at the Date Trific podcast and the Date Wife experience. And everything we're doing at Wake Up Warrior is about just giving you the space and tools to actually challenge the status quo. There's one statement I used to kind of wrap us up today, and they said the idea that different is not always better. So just because you're doing different shit doesn't mean it's better. But here's the caveat. Better is always different. Better is always different. So if I want something better, it has to be different. But just because I do different shit doesn't mean it's going to be better. But everything better in your life came about because you did something different. But just because you're doing different shit doesn't mean it's always going to be better. You have to do the right different shit in order to make things better. And I'm. I'm just proud of us as a couple, particularly in the last year. Like, what we have taken on has been some of the hardest emotional work. Decades of pain and emotional scarring and tissues between us that are unraveling every week in therapy.

We're building a new country in our country, in our relationship. You know, we. I mean, we'd work. The fact that we stayed together, had kids and the success was great, but it's now it's like we had to. We are having to let go of literally the old version of Garrett and Danielle. Like, they have to die for our relationship to continue. Continue. We, like, they have to, like, we have to figure out how to communicate to each other better, which I think we're doing. But people even ask me all the time, like, how did you guys, like, save your marriage? I'm like, it doesn't happen overnight. And still to this day, it is a conscious, weekly, daily effort. Like, it. It just is. So if you want anything great in life, it can't be a side thought of a date night once a month. Like, then just expect your marriage to be a C minus. And if that works for you, great. But if you went to an A, you would never go back to that C minus. So that's where I think you and I, we've experienced so much in life that we're like, all right, our marriage is good. Let's take it to great. Let's take it from a B to an A. But to get there, it's a little bit bumpy. But I also look at, like, when you can get there, like, say, in business or anything else. And when we bump a level, it's almost like so much more opens up. God pours into us even more. And I'm like, God, I'm so glad I stayed in the fight. I'm so glad that I went. I went through it because of who I became. And now all I'm seeing more. It's like, literally, like, expansion. You're literally seeing more your vibration is bigger you can, you, you, you have more empathy for people. Like I don't know how else to explain it, but it's almost like the more I expand, like the softer I get. I'm like, oh man. Made me do so. It's been, it's been like a. It's been fun but hard. But then I'm like, choose your brain. I'd way rather have. I did a blog post that I was like, hey, it hasn't been easy, but the reward has been greater.

So listen, if we can help you as a couple, we have tools to support you both. You can get them for free@warriorlaunch.com where you can gain access for 30 days to the date you wife experience call. You can gain access to all of our warriors way tools and apps and systems and you can test it out yourself. And who knows, you might become like the 70 to 80 couples that we currently lead right now who've all gone on to launch their own podcast as a couple. Because the greatest thing that God wants us is to become disciple makers. So we create based on what God has given us and then in our freedom, we inspire others to go do the same. And this is a trickle down thing that's happening right now. That's why I've hit such a tipping point at Wake Up Warrior. Because we have hundreds of trainers and we have hundreds of people and almost 100 couples running podcasts like us, finding the power as a couple and being honest to the public about who they are as couples and where it used to be, just us and individuals doing podcasts. Couple podcasts are now on the rise in a big way. So listen, we can help you out. We'd love to for free. Come test it. If it works for you, you'll make an investment. Stay with us for a long time. You can check that out by going to warrior launch.com. we also have. Danielle has a new blog that she has going right now. Tell them about the blog.

I started a blog like 12 years ago and then I kind of stopped blogging and then I was like, you know what? My old blog is dead. It does not reflect who I am today. So I changed it. It was DKW styling and now it's just Danielle K. White because I felt like I wanted something that showcased the woman I am today, encompassing like family and all of my other brands. So you can go to Danielle K. White to check out more about me and kind of what I built for myself and my family. And this is also where you're gonna see the Date youe Wife Podcast.

So well done. All right, my friends, we're out of here for this week. Have an amazing week. We look forward to seeing you here next week on the Date your Wife Podcast.